Cormac McCarthy on Modern Poetry
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- Опубликовано: 3 янв 2024
- Cormac McCarthy is a huge fan of poetry. Even calling himself (Suttree) "the poet" for multiple drafts of "Suttree." In today's video we will review McCarthy's published poetry, a clip of him talking about modern poetry, and his poetic influences which include Robert Frost, Dylan Thomas, Yeats, Ezra Pound, and more! I will also go over how McCarthy was in the last real generation of poets who were inventing poetry as a collective before the meritocracy of poetry was destroyed forever!
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Rupi Kaur is a phenomenon of the modern world, in that she arose by posting on Instagram, banalities and bromides that appealed to (mostly women and girls) who are hungry some profoundity and sense of reassurance over the realities and disappointments of life. She is barely poetry at all, but she resonates, and has an audience of immense magnitude because of social media, in particular instagram, where the posture and 'aesthetics' and lifestyle interact into her books.
Glad she found her niche.
She won't last.
Poetry, like any art form, requires dedication and skill, and a meticulousness for detail. Poetry, though flexible, still has structural paradigms. So much of modern poetry -- "Instagram" types and otherwise -- has become, "I wrote down feelings in a trite and unplanned manner -- here's my poem." Which is an insult to all of us who labor over writing a good poem.
Yes!
What you said at 10:40 - that hit me lol im a construction worker and none of my friends or family have probably ever read poetry. When i published my book I didnt even tell anybody:) I dont even know if its any good or not cause theres no one in my circle to ask. Surrounding yourself with people who understand it is a brilliant concept.
Good luck on finding those people brotha! Slowly but surely!
Contemporary poetry is in a weird place for sure; however, I think picking poets such as Kaur and Voung is a little selective. I also think that a lot of contemporary poetry has lost a lot of what we love in poetry, such as playful meter, form, and sounds, but for every mediocre or commercial poet, you have exceptional ones such as Jericho Brown, Natasha Trethewey, Adam Clay, Kevin Young, Randall Mann, and Ada Limon. Even poets like Mathias Svalina and Ben Lerner, whose poetry I’m not a mega fan of, push the idea of what poetry can be in a compelling and sometimes argumentative manner. I think you are right that people want to read things they can more easily understand, and that don’t require a lot of attention, but there is a disconnect now between the university system and what people are broadly consuming. Many of the writers I know in universities must stay incredibly dedicated to their craft, but what they produce is really good, if not great. The problem is it is not being read. Instead, television, film, video games, and inspirational social media poems and posts have taken the primary focus of the popular art form.
I don't think any of the poets you named are touching the best from the 50-70's!
I agree. I think there's still incredible poetry being made. It just isn't being heard.
I like your channel, it was recommended to me a couple of weeks ago and you showed me how Mcarthy influenced the author of that very large book directly behind your head and I became interested in why I haven't read anything of his but having seen the films based on his work, so I went to the library and rented "The Crossing" and its beautifully written. The Parham brother's dialogue reminds me of the Incandenza's. The difference is McCarthy says little and makes you wonder what's coming next and Wallace says a lot and makes you wish he would just say what's he is saying in fewer words. Like Krause's Critique of Poetry applied to postmodern prose.
Congrats on 6k subs!
Thanks! Will have 7k by next month and 10k by March if I hit my grind right!
Poetry today has to do more than just bask in it's aesthetic perfection, as though waiting for the writing instructor's approval. It has to BITE.
Started to write poetry after a chance pick up of Charles Simic. Suddenly, I saw its possibilities, for me at least. I'd been familiar with Shakespeare, Hughes, Bukowski, but Charlie triggered something. I continue to read and write, almost as a subversive activity. I share with friends in an attempt to keep myself and possibly them sane...I hope. It may be like trying to dig a tunnel in a
cell with a spoon.
"I can't go on.
You must go on.
I can't go on.
I'll go on"...
I just write poetry compulsively. I simply can't stop myself, even now, when I am older and in pain. I have a now Professor Emeritus hold on to a lot of the final drafts. My wife is angry occasionally about how much room it takes up, and how I never do anything with it.
Keep going!
@@WriteConscious I actually wrote myself a death poem because of that one tee you wore. Not a large point, but salient nonetheless! 😁
@@penelopegreenewhere can we read some of your poetry?
@@ThatBigGuyAl Are you sure? Because everyone writes poetry in America and no one likes to read it! 🙂
If you want, I will try to put some of it on videos on my own channel. 🤔
However, I used to try to put some up on Google+ and you know what happened to it! 😆
My only warning is that I veer towards the zany and abstract.
@@ThatBigGuyAl I will inform you soon. But please don't be disappointed. You could always speak to my professor friend, if this fails!
Great video. Several factors are at play here that you mentioned. Gatekeepers across the culture are seen as problematic which breaks down the meritocracy. Also the idea of “history” has been cut down to basically one generation prior. You see it in the influences across art. Ask a kid today if they know about the history of some field, and they prop up the 80s and 90s as the Renaissance period. There is just an overall lack of respect for influential work because it might seem esoteric and quickly called overrated. It’s just hurts me because some of my favorite poets, writers, bands, songs of mine took time and effort to fully appreciate. I think good poetry can be smuggled in via television and movies
Agreed!
Loved your video and the analysis; it was super interesting! I wish McCarthy said more in response to Krauss’ critique. Also Wilt Chamberlain played in the 50s and would have destroyed any middle school basketball team 😉Looking forward to reading your book when you’ve finished!
That is true. Wilt woulda dropped another 100 lol
I remember buying Bly's "News of the Universe" when it first came out. Bly's essays and many of the poems in that book had a big impact on me. Who are some of the current, younger poets that would make it into that anthology if it was updated?
This may sound bad but when I release my poetry book you will love it. My number one inspiration is following in the footsteps of everyone in News of the Universe.
look forward to it@@WriteConscious
I noticed lots of repeated vowels in the prose of the Orchard Keeper. Classical style, the Greeks invented vowels and their rules.
Kraus is a little off on McCarthy I think. Notice how McCarthy didn’t agree that the standard model of physics is more significant than Shakespeare. McCarthy simply said that science will outlast Shakespeare. Shakespeare has outlasted a lot of science so it’s a big claim. The standard model isn’t half as old as the first folio.
Also doesn’t surprise me Kraus doesn’t get poetry. If the idea is that poets should say what they mean more concretely, you lose a timelessness and transformative ability.
Milton is critiqued by Pound for being too Latinate to express his ideas clearly. Milton chooses the sounds of a phrase over clarity or proper grammar. Yet isn’t this the essence of Paradise Lost? The characters polarise the human mind, pollinating it with ideas for hundreds of years.
I’m in my first year of an MFA program, and so far, I find it very rewarding. It’s reintroducing me to a lot of concepts I’ve forgotten or else it’s guiding me through deep dives on new concepts. I think it mostly depends on what kind of MFA program you go into it think. With that said, I still see some DEI bull on the periphery of this program. I agree with your take on DEI, art and MFA’s in general, though.
Keep going brotha! Get what you can out of it.
I don’t know if you have read the poetry of Jim Harrison, I but I sincerely recommend giving him a read, he is my favorite so far. His poetry was focused predominantly on nature and certain questions around mysticism and humanities relationship to time and rivers and fish. He is know for Legends of the Fall and his fiction, but in all honesty his poetry is what really shines through for me.
I live 25 minutes away from where Jim Harrison lived/died, and one of my students knew Jim Harrison very well. Her grandpa was his best friend (he is also a very good nature poet) and she has a ton of stories about him. Seemed like a great guy and obviously a great writer!
Do you have a video about The Counselor? I believe it is his only original screenplay. I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
Actually released one today. But, will have much deeper dives into it soon. I think the screen play is pretty good but something went wrong with how the movie came together.
I'm going to take another look at it. I'd like to hear your thoughts on what went wrong and what McCarthy's intention was in terms of the story. I found it confusing as to what the overall meaning was.@@WriteConscious
Griselda is adorable 🥹
Take a bucket of fortune cookies, crush them, grab all the slips of paper that remain, and stick them in any order, and you will get better work than 90% of what exists as Instapoetry.
Why do u put Rupi Kaur and Ocean Vuong in the same bag? I think its a mistake but wanna hear your opinion
Because both of them suck! Ocean Vuong has seven-figure book deals that come with the best editors in the world and they still can't turn his stuff into something good lol. I went to school with at least 50+ people who were better poets than Voung. If not more. But, Vuong fits the DEI marketing slot the houses want, and because no one is smart or motivated enough to read/find good poetry everyone eats it up.
@@WriteConscious @WriteConscious well, lets say I hate Goethe, or Whitman, for instance... It would be a mistake compare both authors to a pulp novel or a jingle... @zoobee hit the target 'bout Kaur but even if Vuong's opus has a mercadological dimension due its sexuality and ethinics, and that's appeal to a certain public, Night Sky with Exit Wounds its not that monster u r panting
By the way, its a nice school u went to...
@@WriteConscious and ok, i admit that i exagerated puting Goethe/Whitman in the conversation... please dont think that I consider Vuong has the same status
and sorry for my poor english...
I got so shocked when he just said Ocean Voung is the same as Rupi Kaur. Like has he even read Ocean Voung does he know him. Does he know how Ocean Voung thinks about poetry. Rupi kaur is a bad poet, personally, but Ocean - freakin - Voung!!!
@@WriteConscious just say you don't like the poet or his poetry. As I also don't like Pound. I see where your head is. You like those poems that wear a tie (as Billy Collins would say) ..the serious poems in he realm of academia. And you have this linear way of thinking about poetry - which is very western - where something develops develops along time and you just said the poetry of today has degenerated as if poetry is something that degenerates or develops. Everything is subject to change including poetry otherwise how did the English who before the Norman conquest included no rhyme in the aesthetic of poetry but enjoyed alliteration?
After watching quite a few video reviews of Kaur's poetry it seems to me the majority of commenters is annoyed by her tweets/thoughts/sayings being called poetry, not even by the fact she makes so much money selling it. She is just meeting a demand and there are so many copycats too, many with even worse "poems". Many people say that if, at least, the publishers would call the books sth else, and NOT POETRY, that would be less insulting to the craft of poetry writing and real poets. The traditional publishers know that what they publish is not technically poetry but they still label it that, which is annoying.
I'm going to have to address this more fully after work, but Cormac McCarthy's high school poetry was quite enjoyable. He reads like one of the better Fireside Poets, by which I mean Whittier.
With respects to Bly, Wright, et al, I would judge them consistent writers of great lines and periods rmoreso than great poems. They're " merely perfect" a little too often for my taste; I'd rank them just below both Plath and Ted Hughes, and further below Anne Sexton and Stanley Kunitz. What a poet sees when looking at the age is more important to.me than what he or she sees when looking at an object; there's a difference between being a great poet and a great writer.
I'm not quite being fair to this group, they're better than *that*. Especially Charles Wright. Other favorites: Pound, with the Seven Lakes Canto my poetry ground zero. Galway Kinnell. Mary Oliver. Erica Dawson. AE Stallings. Frank Bidart. Amiri Baraka. TS Eliot, esp. The Four Quartets.Robert Duncan. But for me, the best of the 2nd half of the 20th C is Anne Sexton.
It isn't fair that Ted Hughes is better than Sylvia Plath, but life isn't fair. Gotta be mentioned: Richard Wilbur. There's perfect, and then there's Richard Wilbur and Stanley Kunitz.
Like Seamus Heaney, though, Wilbur can be boring af. & I do call out boring. The opposite of this is Amiri Baraka. Once he's got you, he's GOT you, and doesn't let go till the poem is over. There's no "That was a nice stanza, now I'll go to the next tab for awhile, savor that stanza then check back in later." Very much like Sexton. Neither of these poets is afraid to *hurt you* and I admire that.
I haven’t read any philosophy from the 60s onward that was any good. The continental style refuses to use reason and the analytical style is pedantic and small-minded. They both have the tone that says “I am submitting this modest proposal to the community”. Its all utterly inconsequential and boring.
haha. I haven't read much original stuff I have liked. The secondary sources though have been epic and progress lineages in and of themselves.
@@WriteConscious Truesay
He certainly has the mind of an Imagist.
Yeah, most poets do publish in Cotaries. But Ralph Waldo Emerson once noted that the poet working in a time when literature isn't popular, has the added benefit of drawing from everything and anything, to create his work. Hopefully I do make money with my poetry. Or at least the five novels I've written should be enough to make a living, and the dozen or so poetry collections should revive people's interest in the arts. I need to make a living, and one ought to be enabled to make a living off of their craft, if they're good enough at it.
With the internet writers have more opportunities than ever!
@@WriteConscious Yeah... it's still hard, though. I'm not one for marketing, or prostituting myself. I'm the kind of person who believes quality wins out in the end, and the right audience will find it at the right time.
My writing will also be controversial. I'm looking for a word of mouth kind of advertising policy, where the right people get it, like you said. If I blow up in popularity, I'm afraid I'll have every left and right wing fanatic gunning for me.
I write with a ton of nuance. Which is something modern people don't get. I just need about 1-3 thousand customers a month, and I'll be able to take care of my business.
Like, fame is the exact part of the business I dread. With my unique criminal record, and background, very few people will actually understand it. I also don't want to be J. K. Rowling or Mark Twain. And especially with this modern world, everyone flips out over the stupidest things. I can imagine Fox News or CBN doing exposes on my writing, and getting it all wrong. Or even MSNBC or CNN. It's more for the highly and classically educated.
It's going to be hard to publish things akin to C. S. Lewis and G. K. Chesterton in this market. People on both sides will refuse to understand it. Especially from me. I just don't want the notice. But I need the financial support of some kind of serious audience.
If modern poetry was just published in greeting cards, it would all be good....
As one more comment, I really love modernist poetry, but I also really like ocean vuong. It doens’t seem like the most accurate comparison between him and Rupi Khar. Vuong is clearly better
Not by much!
How do you reach out to a professor without sounding like a loser? I feel like they’d find it annoying to be reached out to
I second this question.
Really depends on who it is. There are some lonely academics in Ohio who dream of getting emails of people who are interested in them. Just send a cold call email lol. I do it all the time. But, if they're popular or doing a lot here are some ideas I use.
The first step is to not be needy. The goal isn't to have them read your work immediately or waste a big amount of time on you. Think long-term. Also understand their perspective as a busy academic. It may seem trite, but they have a lot on their mind.
Step 1: Don't be the same
Professors and any busy person get the same email time and time again. Your communications need to stand out. That's the problem with email in general which can become very clogged.
Step 2: Find unique channels
I would first see if they have a twitter, blog or social media. Any easy way to sneak in is to just comment and like everything they post. After a month or two you'll be very familiar to them and can then move on to the steps I talk about later. This also gives you time to make those unique contributions that imprint you in their memory. You don't want to be like everyone else. I would also recommend trying to see them in-person or over the phone. Whether this be at an event or you even requesting to come to their office hours. Professors go to multiple events a year. Seeing them in-person is the easiest way. I am friends with 20+ Hemingway scholars from going to the conference in Wyoming. We ate dinner together, went to see packs of wolves, drank together, and the whole trip cost me less than $1000. I didn't even go for the networking lol.
I've had success asking to come to office hours even though I'm not a student because most of the time no one else shows up lol. A hack I like is postal mail. Send something to their university and it will get to them. You will have their guranteed attention and it won't be on the email they hate.
If you're reaching out to some random prestigious Harvard professor or someone whose published successful books its going to be much harder. You'll have to be able to offer them something (or be high standing in the same community yourself.)
Step 3: Try to find someone they know. If you could connect to someone down the chain related to them it could be a huge deal. For instance, when I used to send out emails to McCarthy scholars I would use a scholar I was friends with as a way to show credibility. The friend I had was a minor member of the community but everyone knew him. You can get these people with just cold emailing because they have no fans lol. Use them to help move up the chain. This is what I'm currently doing with the top McCarthy scholar.
Step 4: Offer Friendship - Just remember you're trying to be their friend. It is a slow process that should feel chill. If they reply to your email wait a few days and act like it isn't a big deal. This is why you shouldn't send bland emails or apologize in your email. Don't be like "Sorry to bother you." Don't send a wall of text. Don't ask anything of them that's too crazy. Get to the point and tell them what you want. I don't know if you want a friend or to have them read something. But, they should know pretty fast what you want.
Step 5: Create trustworthy value: An easy way to connect with professors is to have your own thing also going. Whether that big a blog, published papers, a book, a channel, or something they can look at. If they see you have skin in the game they will automatically be more interested. If you don't know what to do, use AI to build you a website and just write a couple blog posts. That is not a big time commitment and you won't seem like a random.
Step 6: Be ready to be blown off. Just assume all of this will work on 1/10 people lol.
@@WriteConscious Thanks for the thorough reply!
Viva vers libre!
Also do you really think a team today would beat the 1993 bulls?!
I think the best NBA team today would smoke them. Jordan could hold his own but I think the roster depth and modern schemes would win out.
HaHa DEI is ruining poetry too. Great content BTW!
If the root cause of the problem is a less intelligent marketplace (and I think it is), think of what literature/poetry will look like in the 2030s and 40s when the iPad zombie children become tastemakers.
VR Rupi Kaur
Yeah bro I'm not looking forward AT ALL to Gen Alpha's poetry when they come of age. Being raised constantly connected online and to devices is doing something FIERCE to our psyches. This, along with the proliferation of AI, raises concern for the future of the arts and human-generated creativity.
I think it may be more honest to admit you just don't read modern poetry than to attempt to malign it all as being like Kaur or Vuoung. Not only that, but your insistence on the primacy of Snyder and Bly as some kind of high water mark of twentieth century poetry is also a little baffling (arbitrary even given the era: why not Spicer? Duncan? Notley? Berrigan? Zukofsky? Stanford? Brautigan?-the list of better more lasting poets of that era goes on). I don't disagree with you in terms of the "market" being "dumbed down" (though I thought poetry wasn't about selling anything?)-but have you read Fred Moten? Terrance Hayes? Laura Henriksen? Dave Morse? Big and small names, relative to the world of what is being published, but none of it is dumbed down, and all of it has readers, and none of it could adequately be rendered down into prose to same effect. McCarthy's skepticism seems to have been earned with a great deal of reading and attention-I'd recommend you take the same tack.
I like your videos but what on earth are you talking about when you say that “Sylvia Plath wasn’t that good, looking back on it?” This is an insane opinion
Yeah, she wasn't good! People like Robinson Jeffers, Robert Bly, James Wright and 100 + others writing at the same time were about 100x better than her. If you look at "The Bell Jar" Cormac was publishing books when that came out.
@@WriteConscious this just points to some kind of personal preference you have because none of these are stylistically even similar to Plath
This is fine but you make non sequiturs. Also intelligence levels being lower is objectively untrue. That victorian or romantic verse was written for one percent of one percent. All those poets you mention weren't professors. Poets do not (somehow inexplicably) have less time(?) than they did in the fifties.
www.npr.org/2023/06/22/1183653578/u-s-reading-and-math-scores-drop-to-their-lowest-levels-in-decades
Technology is sucking time away that we don't even know about. Little things like relaxation, contemplation, socializing, and of course practicing writing/reading are vital to creating wholesome work.
@@WriteConscious i agree with your point generally. It's comparing the audience and readership of like say wordsworth coleridge to 8th graders today: not valuable. English majors/degree holders today vs like say the first edition runs of classic poetry would give you a more accurate metric of reading comprehension of rich poetry by the numbers. :)
@@WriteConscious I totally agree about phones sucking away time. Ex. me writing this comment lol