🚀 Do you want help finishing Infinite Jest? Or want a complete guide to follow while reading? Join my Infinite Jest Course and Book Club here: writeconscious.substack.com 📚 Explore over 400 of Wallace’s favorite books in my free guide to his favorite books Access here: writeconscious.ck.page/8956ce90fc 📖 Want to WRITE better? Join my free writing school: www.skool.com/writeconscious Insta: instagram.com/writeconscious 📕My Best Books of All-Time List: writeconscious.ck.page/355619345e 🔥Want to READ my wife’s fire poetry? Go here: marigoldeclipse.substack.com 🤔David Foster Wallace’s Favorite Book on Writing amzn.to/4eVmjAI
Ten years ago I had a critique set up with one of my favorite painters. I was worried that when he looked at my portfolio he would see that I had stolen his style, but when he looked at it he didn't even mention it. When I told him that I was worried he'd think I was a poser, he told me that he would have never guessed that I was copying him, and that that is because you cannot perfectly copy another artist without adding in your own voice. That stuck with me, and to this day it is a hard rule for using other writers or painters as guides in my own work.
Music is so similar. I have learned a tremendous amount of music theory, but it can be difficult to apply fluidly while playing or teaching. Theory is a structure of understanding, but it does not lead you in the moment. I am sure for a savant it is different, but for us normal people music theory is an investigative tool applied in retrospect. Simply learning a guitar solo by mimicking the original is so much more functional, and it is so easy to apply the same techniques and riffs to different keys. It gives you a copy of the original and a little tool box to take with you. Studying the little details and discovering the tiny decisions that make all the difference is so rewarding.
I have an author that I use for revision. I wouldn't say I try to imitate him but I read a page of his work then revise a page of my work because I like his cadence and economy with words, and he is a famously published author and I am not. However, I have been doing this so long that I rarely need to consult his work anymore. When I revise, I just "put him on" for a few minutes then take him off and because I have gone through his works so many times, they have become a part of me. When I first started doing this I would type a page of his work then revise a page of my own. I moved on from that to reading two pages of his work and revising a page of my own, then reading one page of his and revising a page of my own, and now I just "put him on". I only do this for one or two revisions. When I revise all the way through, I am just myself. I'm the reviser-type.
Wow. Hearing you're last couple videos I'm feeling like I got really mislead & played when I in college at the writing workshops I did. I submitted some stories where I was trying to just basically mimic some authors i like writing styles & use it to tell my story. But anyone who recognized what I was doing didn't like it, including the professor who told me not to & develope my own style instead of trying to copy a "master". Looking back now it seeme like those, sitting in a circle workshop experiences put me off of writing more than anything & ever since I never tried mimicking famous authors when I did write. You are a really good teacher Ian.
I'm sorry you had that experience, because I've always believed the best way I learned to write was straight plagiarism throughout highschool. Not only did I learn how to put words together by following great practitioners, I was able to recognize whenever I stumbled into something that was my own voice. Thankfully writing is one of the arts & practices that you can do until the day you die - and there is no point in your life that won't be interesting if you feel it's so. If you still have writers you love, especially from back when you wanted to write, go and copy the living shit out of them. Even if you never write another word of "your own," it's just a pleasure to play in words with power and heat. I gotta go rewrite the last paragraph of "The Dead" again...
@danakerjbam thanks for the reply. Definitely helpful. It's a shame the writing department at that college I went to was so pompous. And me too for that matter. I remember forming I kind of vendetta against the other ppl in the workshops because I found all their stories so dry & soulless, like they were all taking the class as an afterthought, so I made it a point to abandon all form & just wrote the gnarliest & most offensive shorts in my own voice, channeling the most aggressive version of my High school self from years before. Ended up being turned into the dean of admissions for concerns about my "well being" & "student safety" just because of this one short story. If anything, results, is what that writing got me, but not good ones. Luckily the flow of original stories has never stopped & today its as strong as ever, but im afraid once I start writing one the only voice I have is that edgy little teenager. 🤣
His sister is the only woman to ever submit me (she was also the only high level female I ever trained with.) Even though she was smaller than me, her technique was so clean that I could nothing from preventing her from berimboloing and taking the back. Once she was there they were trained since birth it felt like to hit chokes lol
I've heard of these two techniques before somewhere (imitating style and writing out an existing work) but thanks for reminding me! I remember hearing the idea of being within the flow of a great writer to get an impression of how it feels to be a great writer, although that isn't the only reason to do it, of course. But despite being a great exercise, in a way it does feel slightly dishonest, because that writer didn't write the published piece without revisions, so we're seeing their idealised writing, rather than their process. I find it comforting to look up photos of hand written poems and song lyrics and see all the corrections and changes.
I’ve been following your channel for a while now (specifically for McCarthy content) and have greatly enjoyed it…I’ve also been doing Jiu Jitsu for about five years and man what a colliding of worlds in this video hearing you mention Leandro and Mikey. Great examples and great techniques, will have to try them soon
I already got this book (Artful Sentences) based on your recommendation of it in a reply to a comment on your David Foster Wallace Vocab video. Thank you, Ian.
I noticed that just reading Blood Meridian ALOUD versus silently, affected my description and fluidity of description in front of the keyboard. I think I may try typing it out. Thanks for that.
Even when I occasionally disagree with you, I am always grateful you are here with us and for us. (I am not referring to any disagreement in this video; it was a very general statement that I could have left on any of your videos.)
@@WriteConscious I’ve changed my mind on many things and many times over many years. Sometimes the change is one of nuance, other times a conceptual cataclysm. It’s how we know we’re okay philosophers, brother.
Ok so the candle thing that you talked about was in a scene in one of my favorite books of all time from my childhood, and it’s giving me chills. Also, I try to do the memorizing a line thing all the time but I didn’t realize this was actually a strategy. I just do it because of ocd. I am going to reframe this as a strategy to feel better about myself. Fantastic video thus far.
I’m currently rewriting Cormac McCarthy’s “Agua” short story excerpt from No Country for Old Men. I’ll likely rewrite one of the three Cormac novels you recommend in your rewriting Blood Meridian video too. Or another Cormac novel.
Ever read "Exercises in Style" by Raymond Queneau? I think it`s ~60 stories and every story is the same story, but told from a different perspective and in a different style. It's a fun book. I read it some years ago but I remember really enjoying it.
I’ve been feeling the urge to adapt a favorite manga of mine into prose. I got the idea when I listened to an interview of Paul Thomas Anderson in where he took a short story he liked and wrote it down as a screenplay. What do you think about this idea? I think it could be an interesting Challenge.
First, watch "Finding Forester." Sean Connery plainly shows what is required to write -- write. Re-write. And edit until every single word is hitting. And then when you are satisfied the reader will be too. If you somehow believe you are not a writer you are a better one than you know. I like Kerouac. That means it is age sensitive and life style does matter. Most people get impressed earlier than when they decide to seriously write. Coming back to something is the beautiful part of it. You did not give up. Nothing matures better.
I know this probably isn't the right place for asking this, but I was re-reading Don Delillos 'End Zone' recently and I noticed some similarities with sections of Infinite Jest (I'm a big Wallace fan by the way), particularly the conversations between the players, it reminded me of some of the locker room chats in Jest. Anyone else pick up on this, or indeed disagree. Appreciate any feedback. Cheers
Man, you pack a lot of stuff in here in a short ordered speed-run. Thanks for the post. I'm looking not only for Artful Sentences, but Mark Anthony Jarman's work too. Thanks. P.S. How about yours?
heyo i apologise if this is a stupid question, but by "imitating" do you mean copying the extract word for word, or using the exact sentence structure to drop your own words into?
Hey Ian. Great vid, insightful as always. Can I ask why your content is mainly related to DFW and Cormac McCarthy? You frequently mention other greats, like Pynchon, Don DeLillo, etc, so I was just curious as to why you choose to focus on these two in particular?
@@WriteConscious I'll be looking forward to that! Just to be clear: I enjoy and follow your content as is too, so I will be sticking around either way. Keep up the good work!
@WriteConscious I have found that proper diet and a healthy lifestyle are critical for overall productivity. I was just curious to hear about your nutrition since it's generally overlooked.
Does anyone remember the author Ian suggested one should read for learning close 3rd person POV? I've binged so many of his vids but I didn't take notes...urgh...
No. I'll write the greatest true story of all time, without any knowledge and influence of any other authors to debase and pollute my writings. True originality in Literature.
@@WriteConscious Haha, yep. I totally avoid as much of those as possible as well. Some classic stuff I do like though, yh. Watch 'League of Gentleman'. Never fully read a book ever though, no.. I played video games at a very high level instead. My story centres mainly round an event in the lottery that's never happened in the world before, and won't happen again either, so it is totally original. The only time the story will ever exist, and so I have to bloody write it. All connects and things. Crazy story.
I think most new/amateur writers (not implying you are, or I am not) fixate over 'the idea' and 'originality' or 'style' as some kind of silver bullet to becoming popular or critically acclaimed. I think most experienced writers (or the smart ones) realise that it's voice and unique perspective (all people have something unique to contribute) that make a writer popular or critically acclaimed. To paraphrase Charlie Kaufmann, what YOU bring to the table is what people will find authentic and connect with. As such, you could rewrite any popular story, and your unique perspective on telling it would be what resonates (or not), not the story.
🚀 Do you want help finishing Infinite Jest? Or want a complete guide to follow while reading?
Join my Infinite Jest Course and Book Club here: writeconscious.substack.com
📚 Explore over 400 of Wallace’s favorite books in my free guide to his favorite books
Access here: writeconscious.ck.page/8956ce90fc
📖 Want to WRITE better? Join my free writing school: www.skool.com/writeconscious
Insta: instagram.com/writeconscious
📕My Best Books of All-Time List: writeconscious.ck.page/355619345e
🔥Want to READ my wife’s fire poetry? Go here: marigoldeclipse.substack.com
🤔David Foster Wallace’s Favorite Book on Writing amzn.to/4eVmjAI
Ten years ago I had a critique set up with one of my favorite painters. I was worried that when he looked at my portfolio he would see that I had stolen his style, but when he looked at it he didn't even mention it. When I told him that I was worried he'd think I was a poser, he told me that he would have never guessed that I was copying him, and that that is because you cannot perfectly copy another artist without adding in your own voice. That stuck with me, and to this day it is a hard rule for using other writers or painters as guides in my own work.
Great story!
Music is so similar. I have learned a tremendous amount of music theory, but it can be difficult to apply fluidly while playing or teaching. Theory is a structure of understanding, but it does not lead you in the moment. I am sure for a savant it is different, but for us normal people music theory is an investigative tool applied in retrospect.
Simply learning a guitar solo by mimicking the original is so much more functional, and it is so easy to apply the same techniques and riffs to different keys. It gives you a copy of the original and a little tool box to take with you. Studying the little details and discovering the tiny decisions that make all the difference is so rewarding.
Great analogy! Had a similar journey with music.
I have an author that I use for revision. I wouldn't say I try to imitate him but I read a page of his work then revise a page of my work because I like his cadence and economy with words, and he is a famously published author and I am not. However, I have been doing this so long that I rarely need to consult his work anymore. When I revise, I just "put him on" for a few minutes then take him off and because I have gone through his works so many times, they have become a part of me. When I first started doing this I would type a page of his work then revise a page of my own. I moved on from that to reading two pages of his work and revising a page of my own, then reading one page of his and revising a page of my own, and now I just "put him on". I only do this for one or two revisions. When I revise all the way through, I am just myself. I'm the reviser-type.
Wow. Hearing you're last couple videos I'm feeling like I got really mislead & played when I in college at the writing workshops I did. I submitted some stories where I was trying to just basically mimic some authors i like writing styles & use it to tell my story. But anyone who recognized what I was doing didn't like it, including the professor who told me not to & develope my own style instead of trying to copy a "master". Looking back now it seeme like those, sitting in a circle workshop experiences put me off of writing more than anything & ever since I never tried mimicking famous authors when I did write. You are a really good teacher Ian.
I'm sorry you had that experience, because I've always believed the best way I learned to write was straight plagiarism throughout highschool. Not only did I learn how to put words together by following great practitioners, I was able to recognize whenever I stumbled into something that was my own voice.
Thankfully writing is one of the arts & practices that you can do until the day you die - and there is no point in your life that won't be interesting if you feel it's so. If you still have writers you love, especially from back when you wanted to write, go and copy the living shit out of them. Even if you never write another word of "your own," it's just a pleasure to play in words with power and heat.
I gotta go rewrite the last paragraph of "The Dead" again...
@danakerjbam thanks for the reply. Definitely helpful. It's a shame the writing department at that college I went to was so pompous. And me too for that matter. I remember forming I kind of vendetta against the other ppl in the workshops because I found all their stories so dry & soulless, like they were all taking the class as an afterthought, so I made it a point to abandon all form & just wrote the gnarliest & most offensive shorts in my own voice, channeling the most aggressive version of my High school self from years before. Ended up being turned into the dean of admissions for concerns about my "well being" & "student safety" just because of this one short story. If anything, results, is what that writing got me, but not good ones.
Luckily the flow of original stories has never stopped & today its as strong as ever, but im afraid once I start writing one the only voice I have is that edgy little teenager. 🤣
lol, great ancedote Ethan about getting sent to the dean 😂
Thanks!
Nuts that you drilled with Mikey, he's amazing.
His sister is the only woman to ever submit me (she was also the only high level female I ever trained with.) Even though she was smaller than me, her technique was so clean that I could nothing from preventing her from berimboloing and taking the back. Once she was there they were trained since birth it felt like to hit chokes lol
I've heard of these two techniques before somewhere (imitating style and writing out an existing work) but thanks for reminding me! I remember hearing the idea of being within the flow of a great writer to get an impression of how it feels to be a great writer, although that isn't the only reason to do it, of course. But despite being a great exercise, in a way it does feel slightly dishonest, because that writer didn't write the published piece without revisions, so we're seeing their idealised writing, rather than their process. I find it comforting to look up photos of hand written poems and song lyrics and see all the corrections and changes.
I’ve been following your channel for a while now (specifically for McCarthy content) and have greatly enjoyed it…I’ve also been doing Jiu Jitsu for about five years and man what a colliding of worlds in this video hearing you mention Leandro and Mikey. Great examples and great techniques, will have to try them soon
I already got this book (Artful Sentences) based on your recommendation of it in a reply to a comment on your David Foster Wallace Vocab video. Thank you, Ian.
Thank you brotha! Hope you're liking it!
@@WriteConscious I am, it’s good stuff. I plan to read all of Garner’s Usage too.
I noticed that just reading Blood Meridian ALOUD versus silently, affected my description and fluidity of description in front of the keyboard. I think I may try typing it out. Thanks for that.
Thank you!
Even when I occasionally disagree with you, I am always grateful you are here with us and for us. (I am not referring to any disagreement in this video; it was a very general statement that I could have left on any of your videos.)
Thanks for always being here too brotha. You've said some crazy stuff that's changed my mind on things lol
@@WriteConscious I’ve changed my mind on many things and many times over many years. Sometimes the change is one of nuance, other times a conceptual cataclysm. It’s how we know we’re okay philosophers, brother.
Ok so the candle thing that you talked about was in a scene in one of my favorite books of all time from my childhood, and it’s giving me chills. Also, I try to do the memorizing a line thing all the time but I didn’t realize this was actually a strategy. I just do it because of ocd. I am going to reframe this as a strategy to feel better about myself. Fantastic video thus far.
You're killing it! Thanks for the support
Would be nice if Artful Sentences was available as ebook.
Subscribed. Grateful for your work and pumped to dive in.
I’m currently rewriting Cormac McCarthy’s “Agua” short story excerpt from No Country for Old Men.
I’ll likely rewrite one of the three Cormac novels you recommend in your rewriting Blood Meridian video too. Or another Cormac novel.
Nice! It will be fun
@@WriteConscious For sure! (Sorry for the late reply, I just saw this!)
Ever read "Exercises in Style" by
Raymond Queneau? I think it`s
~60 stories and every story is the same story, but told from a different perspective and in a different style. It's a fun book. I read it some years ago but I remember really enjoying it.
haven't read it but it sounds good!
I have the French edition of that. I need to finally read that, as I have been struggling with voice.
Huh - I am rolling my eyes about the technique you describe, but what you say makes sense. Interesting vlog, thanks!
Thanks!
Also...love the channel. Very good.
Only at Write Conscious can I get a dose of DFW along with a Leandro Lo (RIP) reference. Double doff !!
BOA
I’ve been feeling the urge to adapt a favorite manga of mine into prose. I got the idea when I listened to an interview of Paul Thomas Anderson in where he took a short story he liked and wrote it down as a screenplay.
What do you think about this idea? I think it could be an interesting Challenge.
I like it! I always tell my students that if you do that and like it you're screwed because you can't monetize it.
First, watch "Finding Forester." Sean Connery plainly shows what is required to write -- write. Re-write. And edit until every single word is hitting. And then when you are satisfied the reader will be too. If you somehow believe you are not a writer you are a better one than you know. I like Kerouac. That means it is age sensitive and life style does matter. Most people get impressed earlier than when they decide to seriously write. Coming back to something is the beautiful part of it. You did not give up. Nothing matures better.
great movie!
I know this probably isn't the right place for asking this, but I was re-reading Don Delillos 'End Zone' recently and I noticed some similarities with sections of Infinite Jest (I'm a big Wallace fan by the way), particularly the conversations between the players, it reminded me of some of the locker room chats in Jest. Anyone else pick up on this, or indeed disagree. Appreciate any feedback. Cheers
RIP DFW and RIP Leandro Lo! Haha didn’t think I’d hear his name in one of your videos… you must of been pretty good at wrestling up in the gi
Yeah brotha, I won a bunch of comps by spamming his DLR/Spider sweep lmao
ruclips.net/video/C3YiDbNRbP8/видео.html&ab_channel=BJJSCOUT
Hey Ian could you add that Blood Meridian by hand video to the description please?
Added and here is a direct link
ruclips.net/video/rMEAQqpBhbk/видео.html
@@WriteConscious Thank you, I'll be sure to give your writing exercise a try.
By the way, I'm not accusing Dave of copying, more being inspired by it.
Man, you pack a lot of stuff in here in a short ordered speed-run. Thanks for the post. I'm looking not only for Artful Sentences, but Mark Anthony Jarman's work too. Thanks. P.S. How about yours?
When you say you are rewritng a novel are you just copying the words in notebook? Or are you changing words etc? I'd love to learn more.
I am just rewriting the novel word for word in a notebook.
Hi. What do you think of Hemingway’s kind of writing?
Have a video on it
ruclips.net/video/3v9sizE3q-4/видео.html
@@WriteConscious thanks! I’ll check it out
heyo i apologise if this is a stupid question, but by "imitating" do you mean copying the extract word for word, or using the exact sentence structure to drop your own words into?
Do both
Benjamin Franklin wrote in his autobiography of doing this writing technique.
Hey Ian. Great vid, insightful as always. Can I ask why your content is mainly related to DFW and Cormac McCarthy? You frequently mention other greats, like Pynchon, Don DeLillo, etc, so I was just curious as to why you choose to focus on these two in particular?
I will start to cover up to 20 authors on the channel with a new one starting today.
@@WriteConscious I'll be looking forward to that! Just to be clear: I enjoy and follow your content as is too, so I will be sticking around either way. Keep up the good work!
It makes sense that this writing technique is great. If you want to be like a pro, you should train from a pro.
Yes!
RIP Leandro Lo.
RIP. Dude changed my life!
702 baby!
What does your diet consist of?
how is that relevant lol?
@WriteConscious I have found that proper diet and a healthy lifestyle are critical for overall productivity. I was just curious to hear about your nutrition since it's generally overlooked.
Does anyone remember the author Ian suggested one should read for learning close 3rd person POV? I've binged so many of his vids but I didn't take notes...urgh...
No. I'll write the greatest true story of all time, without any knowledge and influence of any other authors to debase and pollute my writings. True originality in Literature.
If you've read a book or watched a show in your life you've already been polluted. Sorry! Your story won't be original :(
@@WriteConscious Haha, yep. I totally avoid as much of those as possible as well. Some classic stuff I do like though, yh. Watch 'League of Gentleman'. Never fully read a book ever though, no.. I played video games at a very high level instead. My story centres mainly round an event in the lottery that's never happened in the world before, and won't happen again either, so it is totally original. The only time the story will ever exist, and so I have to bloody write it. All connects and things. Crazy story.
This Heat pfp, nice
@@jackqueslack2339 Wow. Hardly anyone knows them.
I think most new/amateur writers (not implying you are, or I am not) fixate over 'the idea' and 'originality' or 'style' as some kind of silver bullet to becoming popular or critically acclaimed. I think most experienced writers (or the smart ones) realise that it's voice and unique perspective (all people have something unique to contribute) that make a writer popular or critically acclaimed. To paraphrase Charlie Kaufmann, what YOU bring to the table is what people will find authentic and connect with. As such, you could rewrite any popular story, and your unique perspective on telling it would be what resonates (or not), not the story.
"Good artists copy..." etc.
yup
I know the answer to this before watching the vid, it's the trash tech!