Hello, folks. I have to say that I'm quite embarrassed and disappointed that a guest on my channel could be treated the way he has been in the comments. This channel has always been about being okay with a difference of opinion and being able to discuss that without being nasty. I loved the movie, Christopher felt let down, and I said we were going to nitpick it because we are huge fans of the book. Remember that noting is more subjective than film and just agree to disagree.
10:00:02 Knife fight with Feyd. Anyone noticed that Paul has already seen the way he was going to kill Feyd ? When he drank water of life he saw his hand holding a knife sticking from Feyd's body. He knew he had to take a stab ( or two as it turned out ). There's similar vision with a desert beetle just before Duncan dies in part one ( Poul sees that beetle before in a vision )
I’m SO happy someone finally mentioned the scifi miniseries. It’s bizarre to me that the most faithful to the source material version is NEVER discussed in mainstream platforms. It’s always new dune vs David lynch dune.
Thanks for this convo, Mike! Really really great to hear from Christopher too. I just started Empire of Silence and loving. Cool to get his thoughts, thanks for making it happen, I need to go listen to the last one too
Adapting the book word for word is nigh on impossible. What Denis did, was to interpret the book and faithfully adapt where possible, the guy clearly loves the book and brought it to screen. Big respect
Obviously, but Denis also cut a looooot of dialogue because it's his style, he prefers to use imagery to tell the story. Imo I do think the movie lacked more dialogue but it still is an amazing movie and one I will always remember and rewatch.
Just got out of the theater. Greatest movie theater experience I’ve ever had without a doubt, and probably the greatest overall movie I’ve ever seen. 11/10 stars, holy crap that was phenomenal.
Christopher Walken was the best Emperor in all the movie adaptations of Dune. He was like a silent judge in court between the Harkonnen and the Atreides.
Non-Book Reader here. (Behind the Dune knowledge) Paul as a dangerous Anti-Hero was very clear. From the music, his aggression when he announces himself as the one, the visions and mention of death from war, and Chani's reaction. I guess as you mentioned the visions could have been more dramatic, but we'll see it all in Dune Messiah, so whatever.
The book will always be my favorite version of this story (I love Frank Herbert's writing), but the movie was a great ADAPTATION to a new medium. I feel this movie has broken through to popular culture and is a cinematic achievement. The visuals and sound design in the imax were incredible. Dune books are obviously huge within the science fiction community and novel fans in general, but it's never really broken through into mainstream pop culture. This movie does.
Great take! The creators of “Dune 2” have created something that is accessible and is a great example of the art of cinema! The art of film adaptation in large measure is a faithful transfer of the overall sense and ideas of the source material-not every detail. Director Denis Villeneuve accomplishes this with the art of cinema-using visuals, show not tell, and smatterings of very brief (often disguised) exposition. It is not surprising that two of Villeneuve’s Top Five favorite films are 2001: A Space Odyssey and Apocalypse Now-two paragons of the art of film so often spoken about in the same breath. Both held up as among the very best at painting the cinematic canvas with grandeur and mystery…
Thematically, I thought the Chani ending was perfect if this is Part II of III. In other words, if this is setting up the emotional climax in Messiah, then this works perfect for me. It denies the viewer the ability to end with the heroic saga, the exact mistake the book made.
Gosh, guys, I'm sorry I didn't like the movie as much as you all. Like I said, loved the visuals, the performances, the sound. Not thrilled with the changes from the book (changes which were not, contrary to the opinions of the comment section, the necessary consequences of adaptation). No one is more disappointed that I am disappointed than I am. There's a lot to love here, but as an author myself, intentional changes to the source material bother me--whatever they may be--if they occur for any reason other than abridgement. Mike, thanks for having me on.
@@dustinneely Exactly, that's the point. These things should be self contained. If it's crap it's crap, if it's great it's great. But, if someone finds it crap BECAUSE it isn't 100% loyal to the book, then that's their problem that they can't separate the two mediums.
As a non book reader I am even more interested in reading Dune and Dune Messiah. It’s because the themes I saw in Part 1 and 2 are apparently there from the books according to Dune book readers. Dillenueve getting people into the source material is really what matters imo because that’s what Peter Jackson did and Book purists say they were disappointed with those.
If you’re doing the books, def read children of dune as well. The original dune, dune messiah and children of dune were considered the original dune trilogy.
Chris talked himself into the true Paul thematic arch here. He goes from rejecting Paul as an evil Messiah figure/rejecting Frank's intent to saying, correcly i believe, that Paul is a victim of his actions and circumstance. Nothing about Paul in Messiah reads to me as evil, but tired and embarrassed about what his reign has brought to the galaxy. Frank's message works for me. But i also don't believe in a Messiah in my personal life, either. So Im not emotionally invested in something like this having happened in our past in the real world.
Not a book reader but I don’t see how someone walks out of the film thinking that it’s a good thing that Paul is on his way to cause the death of millions. It ends on a really unsettling note and Chani’s ambivalence makes her a useful audience avatar/guide and at the end her disappointment undercuts the ‘victory’ effectively.
@@sillylittlesheepjax6009 she's pretty well-established to hate the direction he is going; him marrying someone else just removes any reason she had to stay.
I think the movie gets across about the Jihad at least as well as the book. The Jihad is foreshadowed a little in the original Dune, but I don't remember it being made clear why it has to happen. The ending of this movie made it pretty clear. Not only are the Fremen pretty fanatical. But they tell you the other Houses won't accept Paul's ascendency.
Frank does kind of tell you what the Wierding Way is, I think. It's the superstitious Fremen name for what the Bene Gesserit are able to do. The BG's call it Prana-bindu mastery. It's fine, detailed control of every muscle of their body.
I feel like if they dubbed Paul as Muad'Dib in part one, it would've felt rushed and unearned, considering they didn't meet the Fremen until nearly the end of the film. He needed time to earn his stripes, which is what we saw here.
Books and cinema both have their beauty and pleasures. I personally don’t care what is missing in the movie from the book. That is what the book is for. The creators of this movie only had the responsibility to make the best film they could, with a reasonable run time. Mission accomplished…
I don't think Frank goofed up portraying Paul and LetoII the way he did. He just didn't mean to make them true villains. He meant to make them cautions about over trusting charismatic figures. And it's by the terrible ( though necessary) results of their actions. I'm a religious Christian person too, and the message doesn't really bother me. I do believe Jesus is a true savior. And I do believe he's worth following totally. I'm also aware his popularity can be bent in bad ways. And of course the message about over trusting charismatic figures holds true most of the time
My second time watching this! First time after I had watched part 1 and 2, second time after watching part 1 and 2 twice each AND having read Dune for the first time. And I have to say your criticisms of the films make more sense to me though I really loved both movies and the book. Just started on Messiah and am bracing myself! I look forward to a spoiler chat after part 3 comes out. Great discussion and thank you Mike and Christopher.
I liked the movie more than Ruocchio but I get where he's coming from we just have to keep in mind that this is Villeneuve's Dune and not Herbert's. I do think we should get an extended cut even if its just for the fans.
Without the last scene I think it would have been provisionally one of my favorite movies of all time. There were a lot of differences with the content of the book, but I could understand them and they mostly felt in spirit with the book. Some sacrifices had to be made to draw out the story elements that only come on multiple rereads to put it into a much condensed version for a movie. Many of the changes were just making things that came out later more obvious now. I also really liked that there was a little more emphasis on Paul’s becoming part of the Fremen, that does get entirely skipped over in the book. The movie really drew out how much the Bene Gesserit are the true villains, which took a couple of times through the book for me to really think about. The visuals were incredible, this one felt so much more real and full to me than the first movie which felt empty at times. It just really bothers me how Paul and Chani’s story is changed. It makes Paul’s marrying Irulan that much worse because it makes it look like he chose Irulan and power over Chani, which is not at all how the decision works in the book. Paul and Chani being together is integral to this story and the next book, they really have their work cut out for them to walk back the changes if they make Messiah. I’m also disappointed that he’s said he’s only adapting Messiah, and won’t go past Messiah. There’s not really a great place to end, I’ll admit, but Children of Dune is incredible, and I think Messiah would miss out on a lot by excluding what happens next with Paul and Alia.
We all get different things out of books and stuff. For me, the water of life ceremony in the book was actually very beautiful, the sharing of loved experiences and melding of all the women of history and I didn’t think they made the ceremony at emotional in the movie but…can’t win ‘em all
Good reviews. I’m so happy that Stormbringer was your book of the month! I love pretty much everything Moorcock and Elric and think they are all good reads….. but your reading advice for Elric is pretty sensible. I’d add that if somebody reads those original main 6 and really enjoys them, then it’s worth also reading the others.
I loved the movie and thought that it perfectly set up the emotional payoffs in Dune Messiah. The SciFi channel version is my favorite but it is very much the heroic version of the story. This is the version that highlights the tragedy of Paul. And I liked that a lot.
1:15:25 Zoomer here & I agree. Although I don’t care for Timothee Chalamet also but Zendaya isn’t that crazy popular. It’s likely nostalgia because we Zoomers grew up with Disney Channel & we know her from there so that’s probably it.
I haven't read the book so I don't have a feel for the changes, so I loved movie. Thought it was awesome but if I'm looking back to what things slightly disappointed me, would be how things concluded a bit too fast. A moment that stood out for me would be Gurny getting back at rabban, ended in one stab. Was it longer and more satisfying in the book?
I just finished the book today, read it for the first time after watching the movie. Chani was such a standout in the movie and I was very disappointed with her character arc in the book. Shes just like a servant girl with no personality in the book
I'm glad this movie is popular. Even though it was a huge disappointment for me. It's still head and shoulders above anything else that's come out in years
I’m starting to think I’m crazy. 😳 Am I the only one that thought the ending was A BIG PROBLEM? Book: Paul wins, and no one is willing to truly challenge him, because he controls (is capable of destroying) the spice, without which space travel ceases to exist. Movie: Paul kinda wins against the Emperor, but the Great Houses have been delivered (due to spice-driven space travel) by the Guild (who’ll cease to exist without spice), and are willing to attack him, because who cares about the spice? 🤔 Made it seem to me like, in the universe of Movie Dune, the spice is relatively unimportant.
Yeah guys, that’s all a bit black & white for me. It’s not at all a bad movie to my mind, but there are a few changes that make me wonder, and that I’m not on board with.
13:30 in my opinion the different "successes" of missionaria protectiva "infected" socially and globally is cool...cuz if you consider just as Norbert Elias said in a sense that, the harder the circumstances of your environment, the more you tender to channel your anxiety via beliefs like religion, cuz you can deal with your distal situation better, if you have sth you can hope for. He compares it with central african tribes and their beliefs like voodoo. If you compare this model to the distribution of fanatic fremen, you understand my thought...
"Denis Villeneuve's Dune is not my Dune" - thank you for summarising my view of it. It's a work of art for sure, but it is "based on Frank Herbert's novel", but not the true Dune come to life.
Hey Mike, just started reading Dune for the first time due to the movies and your constant praising of the series, of course! Dune: Part Two hasn't escaped my mind once since viewing so I had no choice but to read the series. So... wish me luck!
Very interesting chat between you two, as usual. Thanks! There is something I think Christopher is missing when he compares the miniseries' duration and the movies'. The miniseries had no budget to do properly the action scenes of the book nor the means to bring to the screen the visual majesty of Dune. It cut a lot there, did ellipses or talked of what it couldn't show. What it could do is a very thorough dramatization of the all the dialogue and most of the scenes and do it all in a style almost like a filmed stage play, with long, static scenes. That's TV at its least cinema-esque. It was good at what it did, but that's not a proper cinematographic adaptation. Personally I felt like it didn't have much to offer that the book couldn't already give me. There was no real added value. The visuals were boring, even often very bad. If you inserted back all the cinematographic moments or give them their proper length as Lynch and Villeneuve did, the miniseries would no longer be 30 min shorter than the DV movies, it would be very significantly longer. Nobody was going to give DV 300 million to do Dune again in the style of the miniseries. Even a new Dune TV show would no longer do it that way because the audience expect a more visual experience from TV nowadays. Personally I think it was very good at adapting the text, but it's still about half of what would make it feel like Dune, some of which can be seen in the movies. I think the miniseries distorted Frank's message too. It was done in 2000, following the escalation of tensions with the middle-east, and Harrison was very interested in showing colonialism and "freedom fighting" through the eyes of the oppressed. It's debatable how true this is to Frank's intent, where Paul is hardly a liberator ultimately. He becomes another tyrant. I feel Villeneuve's version is so far the best at nailing the core theme of the dangers of religion and politics and the perils of turning leaders into saviours or superheroes. Of course that was done at the expense of some things. The other factor not to be underestimated is that there is a major difference between what you can include in two movies separated by two years, and three episodes destined to be watched over three evenings. You can't take into account that the audience will rewatch the first movie to be back up to speed 2 years later. You have to really simplify things, and unlike the book the audience can't stop to ponder what it has learned. It has to be simplified to bits of information that can be absorbed in the moment. PS: You guys keep bringing back Feyd's missing red hair, but the Lynch version has messed with your book memories: Feyd has curly dark hair. Chapter 35: "At the Baron's elbow walked Feyd-Rautha. His dark hair was dressed in close ringlets that seemed incongruously gay above sullen eyes". :)
Just got home 10 min ago after seeing this, I went a day earlier than I had planned so I could hurry home and watch this discussion 😅 Haven’t read the books, but I thought it was pretty good, really good even just because 99.9% of movies made by today’s Hollywood are pretty much unwatchable imo. I certainly enjoyed it. But best film of all time as people are saying? Better than seeing LoTR for the first time? That is perplexing.
Is Chani not pregnant right now? She’s wearing that blue scarf. A lot of people think that will be what drives her back to Paul in the beginning of next movie.
If Denis Villeneuve “strips for parts” anything from “Children of Dune” to put into “Dune Messiah”, or else straight up makes a “Children of Dune” down the line, I would take out what Frank Herbert did to Alia in “Children of Dune”. As a fan of Alia in the books through “Dune Messiah”-as well as in movies “Dune 1984” and “Dune 2”-I think her character was done wrong in “Children” and I want any shred of presence or memory from the Baron gone from Alia. I also like how Irulan was updated for the 2003 miniseries “Children of Dune”-and prefer that for any future “Dune” film(s)…
I agree with Chase Buck, Denis V makes movies that people will like watching. Children of Dune you could maybe do, but the magic of seeing sandworms on screen would be wearing thin and its mostly a politics story. God Emperor has an epic ending but it's really more of a TV show kind of story otherwise. Denis V has made lots of hits, he wants to keep making hits, and he has proven he knows what will be a hit. I'd trust him on that. I'm surprised he's even doing Dune Messiah. I'd love to see God Emperor on screen, but in his shoes, I don't think I'd make it either. And yes, the Billy and Mandy episode is so fucking funny! If you haven't seen it Mike, you should watch it, you'd get a kick out of it. Perfect for any Dune fan.
Film was fantastic. Wish it was more faithful to the event, but I understand not having foreknowledge of whether sequels are confirmed can affect the writing direction, and Villeneuve was desperate to ensure people got the point of the story.
Isn’t 60 billion dead kind of unrealistic for a war even if it involves multiple planets. Sooner or later enough power is obtained that threats back off and power is consolidated.
I had never even heard of this series until the first movie came out and I really enjoyed that movie so right after I decided to get into the books and absolutely loved the first book it was such an awesome read I got so excited to see the direction the movie would go and waited patiently for a few years and it finally came out and I have to say I am bit disappointed I don’t even know why and I hate that I am but I feel unsatisfied with the final product. I loved the first hour and was having a good time and then I just didn’t enjoy how they handled some things in the later half but regardless I will always have a special place for these two movies because they are what got me into the books in the first place so I will always be grateful for that.
I liked Dune Messiah more then Dune. I picked up hardcore that Paul was not a good person and it made me upset. Messiah helped me understand more and I loved the ending. In the book, I never got that Jessica was corrupted by Alia as much as she did in the movie. In Messiah I always wanted Jessica to come back and removed or kill Alia... Ive only read them once. Need to do a reread...
I really liked the movie. In some respects, it's superior to the book. I would have appreciated the movie more if they had embraced the psychedlic weirdness of the original. Excellent film, but Denis V's best is still Prisoners, by far.
A bit disappointing that you can't put being a book fan aside and just enjoy the movie fully. The film can never be exactly like the book, but the essence of Herbert's message is there. Plus, people finally got to know about DUNE and they're obsessed about it so that's amazing!
I didn't love the first part as much. The fights were lackluster, slow choreography, but it was much better in the second even if they weren't very fast. Overall, part 2 is epic. As a whole. Dune from Part 1 to Part 2 is pretty awesome.
Incredible film, and a wonderful adaptation! Clicking and commenting for the alogorithm, but probably won't watch as Ruocchio does not share the "vibe". Reading Howling Dark, all the same.
I agree with you guys there is nothing special about zendaya. The intended effect was to be mad that Paul cut her loose but it had the opposite effect for me.
I agree with Christopher - as much as I like the glitz of the new movies, the best telling on screen so far (for me) is the Sci-fi channel TV adaption. Despite the corny costumes and cheap looking sets, it really is true to the book in the best of ways.
Agreed. Pretty much everything was improved in Children of Dune. I wasn't thrilled with Susan Saranden's casting and performance, but other than that it was pretty spot on for me. @@OrangeHand
I was thinking myself afterwards...I really wish they turned Dune itself into 3 movies and not 2..because id really love more time with Feyd. I thought Butler did a great job and seeing him manifest his psychoticness for a movie and give Paul more time to destroy spice production.
The scifi miniseries is split into three parts. The book is as well. It’s written as a clear three act story so I found it weird where they ended part one in the new one.
I really liked the movie. I think Timothee Chalamet is a fine Paul. I think that Javier Bardem is a really good Stilgar. I do not like Zendaya’s portrayal of Chani though.
Tim Blake Nelson is a fantastic actor and would be perfect casting for Count Fenring - in the books isn't he described as weasel-faced / rat-like and shifty looking. Shame his bit got cut!
Agree with you on sequels. the last two were bad. Don't agree about Brian's books. The few I have read were enjoyable for what they were. There were well written space operas. They were missing the multilevel writing of Frank, but on the balance, they were good.
Can't believe the fans of the book can't let it go. So disappointing to see their immaturity. Having no idea what filmmaking is and what it takes to make a decent adaptation and still holding on to the book plot so tight it makes me wonder if the novel was ever so great or just overrated
Since the movie is based on a book, some of us want to see a movie that's loyal to the book. Others like yourself who haven't read the book and simply don't care and that's your perogative. Our opinion doesn't make us "immature," tho yours makes you arrogant
I respect that you guys love the book so much but when adapting something this dense into a movie there’s no way to get every single plot point included. The novel will always be available to pick up and read, this movie was great.
Yeah, I'm with Chris on a lot of this. Like yeah Paul was bad for everyone else, but he lived up to the Fremen's religion and gave the Fremen what they wanted, even if maybe they eventually changed their minds. The religion was planted, but it also came true and Stilgar's faith was justified, Arrakis becomes a green paradise and the Fremen control their planet...but also under the control of an outsider, so maybe they didn't really get what they wanted? I don't know. Also, lol, "let me not enjoy things", exactly dude. I think my favorite scene was probably Paul at the big meeting of all the Fremen, that one really got me, it was a powerful moment. The Sandworms riding into battle was cool. My single favorite thing about the movie though was how perfect the music was for every scene it was in, god damn it's perfect, maybe my favorite score since Lord of the Rings. Austin Butler was great, but his voice and mannerisms reminded me of a more serious version of Zorg from The Fifth Element. They didn't explain the Kwisatz Haderach almost at all in the movie, I can't believe anyone who didn't read the books understands what that meant. Although if I remember right, didn't the first Dune book leave it kind of vague too? Also, in the movie, didn't Paul watch those atomics go off, like, with his eyes? I guess you don't need to be able to see anymore when you can see the future.
I can understand why Christopher feels the way he does as a religious person, however, I think that some people's faith and their need to fit everything into their preconceived notion of reality can be a little ridiculous at times. I think the fact that the diversity of the Fremen's belief seems way more believable and was an improvement from the book in my opinion. It reflects reality because one people group, especially one that is significantly geographically separated, are going to think differently and act differently. The Fremen's complete acceptance of Paul pretty much immediately always seemed a bit far fetched to me
Chani, Stilgar, and Jessica reflect the three forces acting on/against Paul. Culture warriors are going to look for that shit in every film that is released. its tiresome.
Ngl, I don't get why everyone is acting like these movies are the greatest thing ever and I think I figured out why. It's obviously well made and I feel it should be a standard rather than an exception, but I can't take Timothy however you spell his last name seriously and I don't really care about Zendaya?(Idk who this person is). All the other actors just mogged their asses in terms of performance and when the support is better than the leads everything just kinda falls flat
I think they both did amazingly. You disliking actors (can't even bother to get the name right, and expect to be taken seriously?) doesn't make their performance bad.
I’m with Christopher all the way . Maybe this is why I love Sollan empire so much lmao. Chani just took me off the movie every time she opened her mouth . She just feels like a New Yorker whenever she is speaking English . And Paul feels like Tom holland at times lol😊
This guy had a problem with the division amongst the fremen about the religion? Good lord he’s probably just not a film fan. Said he hasn’t seen a movie in a year?
i read all the Dune novels several times and again, sometimes in order but ultimately it was the movie of David Lynch which introduced me into this unique one shot name :; " Dune " The debate around adaptation never really hit any relevant marks for me. I love Dune almost as a phenomenon of its own. I m glad that Denis Villeneuve 20 years within the 2000 millenium found Timothée Chalamet and was finally up to embrass his own journey with this one shot name phenomenon.
@@SunEaterBooks get your flame suit on brother. People are going to come at you with torches and pitchforks for having an opinion. I'm on your side, but I'm actually angry about this film. Girl boss Chani infuriates me.
Yeah, it was a little over done. Didn't kill it for me, but every time he talked it took me out of it. He's not supposed to be the disgusting old Baron, he's the attractive young scion, so I don't know why they bothered with the voice.
Yes it's "Villeneuve's" Dune, NOT yours! (nor does it "belong" solely to anyone, not even to book purists!) I don't think Frank Herbert would have had any reservations either - particularly since he was unfortunate enough to live to see the Lynch film...
@@neutral_narrThey sure do! But they are generally not knowledgeable enough about how to make a movie (especially a sci-fi one) that can expect to generate enough revenue to earn its keep!
@@PeloquinDavid Rucchio has mentioned before that he is not a filmmaker nor will he ever have the intent of being one so I don't know why who are getting so defensive over his opinion.
Good god. You should make your own movie. This is an adaptation- there WAY too much to cover in a movie for this book. You want a ten part TV show- this is not the medium this is made for.
Hello, folks. I have to say that I'm quite embarrassed and disappointed that a guest on my channel could be treated the way he has been in the comments. This channel has always been about being okay with a difference of opinion and being able to discuss that without being nasty. I loved the movie, Christopher felt let down, and I said we were going to nitpick it because we are huge fans of the book. Remember that noting is more subjective than film and just agree to disagree.
10:00:02 Knife fight with Feyd. Anyone noticed that Paul has already seen the way he was going to kill Feyd ? When he drank water of life he saw his hand holding a knife sticking from Feyd's body. He knew he had to take a stab ( or two as it turned out ).
There's similar vision with a desert beetle just before Duncan dies in part one ( Poul sees that beetle before in a vision )
I’m SO happy someone finally mentioned the scifi miniseries. It’s bizarre to me that the most faithful to the source material version is NEVER discussed in mainstream platforms. It’s always new dune vs David lynch dune.
Thanks for this convo, Mike! Really really great to hear from Christopher too. I just started Empire of Silence and loving. Cool to get his thoughts, thanks for making it happen, I need to go listen to the last one too
Adapting the book word for word is nigh on impossible. What Denis did, was to interpret the book and faithfully adapt where possible, the guy clearly loves the book and brought it to screen. Big respect
Exactly this.
You couldn't ask for an adaptation like this
Obviously, but Denis also cut a looooot of dialogue because it's his style, he prefers to use imagery to tell the story. Imo I do think the movie lacked more dialogue but it still is an amazing movie and one I will always remember and rewatch.
Just got out of the theater. Greatest movie theater experience I’ve ever had without a doubt, and probably the greatest overall movie I’ve ever seen. 11/10 stars, holy crap that was phenomenal.
Christopher Walken was the best Emperor in all the movie adaptations of Dune.
He was like a silent judge in court between the Harkonnen and the Atreides.
The movie was a masterpiece!
Of 💩
@@dustinneelyVilleneuve's Dune is a major achievement in filmmaking that is sure to be remembered for years to come.
@@brotherjohnnyxXxX who cares?
Absolutely Loved this movie. Saw it for a second time today in my day off
@@dustinneely go away
Non-Book Reader here. (Behind the Dune knowledge)
Paul as a dangerous Anti-Hero was very clear.
From the music, his aggression when he announces himself as the one, the visions and mention of death from war, and Chani's reaction.
I guess as you mentioned the visions could have been more dramatic, but we'll see it all in Dune Messiah, so whatever.
10/10 solid adaptation.
Most fandoms would be so grateful for an adaption on this caliber.
where the ending is completely wrong and the entire message of the book is lost? you need to actually read the book.
The book will always be my favorite version of this story (I love Frank Herbert's writing), but the movie was a great ADAPTATION to a new medium. I feel this movie has broken through to popular culture and is a cinematic achievement. The visuals and sound design in the imax were incredible. Dune books are obviously huge within the science fiction community and novel fans in general, but it's never really broken through into mainstream pop culture. This movie does.
Great take! The creators of “Dune 2” have created something that is accessible and is a great example of the art of cinema! The art of film adaptation in large measure is a faithful transfer of the overall sense and ideas of the source material-not every detail. Director Denis Villeneuve accomplishes this with the art of cinema-using visuals, show not tell, and smatterings of very brief (often disguised) exposition. It is not surprising that two of Villeneuve’s Top Five favorite films are 2001: A Space Odyssey and Apocalypse Now-two paragons of the art of film so often spoken about in the same breath. Both held up as among the very best at painting the cinematic canvas with grandeur and mystery…
Thematically, I thought the Chani ending was perfect if this is Part II of III. In other words, if this is setting up the emotional climax in Messiah, then this works perfect for me. It denies the viewer the ability to end with the heroic saga, the exact mistake the book made.
I don't know if I agree that this is a mistake from the book but rather Denis leaning into Messiah more than Herbert did then.
@@neutral_narr exactly. We’re saying the same thing.
I disagree, this was the opposite of what happened in the book in every possible way.
@@LandonOakley-d9c it was but I think it works much better for what’s to come in Dune Messiah
Gosh, guys, I'm sorry I didn't like the movie as much as you all. Like I said, loved the visuals, the performances, the sound. Not thrilled with the changes from the book (changes which were not, contrary to the opinions of the comment section, the necessary consequences of adaptation). No one is more disappointed that I am disappointed than I am. There's a lot to love here, but as an author myself, intentional changes to the source material bother me--whatever they may be--if they occur for any reason other than abridgement.
Mike, thanks for having me on.
I won't give you crap for not loving it. I hated the movie. I love Heretics and Chapterhouse.
I was disappointed as well. I liked part one a lot better and I wasn’t a fan of a lot of the changes they made.
If every adaption ever made didn't change the source material at all, there wouldn't be adaptions. Books are books, films are films.
@@dpacc88 and crap is crap.
@@dustinneely Exactly, that's the point. These things should be self contained. If it's crap it's crap, if it's great it's great. But, if someone finds it crap BECAUSE it isn't 100% loyal to the book, then that's their problem that they can't separate the two mediums.
As a non book reader I am even more interested in reading Dune and Dune Messiah. It’s because the themes I saw in Part 1 and 2 are apparently there from the books according to Dune book readers. Dillenueve getting people into the source material is really what matters imo because that’s what Peter Jackson did and Book purists say they were disappointed with those.
If you’re doing the books, def read children of dune as well. The original dune, dune messiah and children of dune were considered the original dune trilogy.
Chris talked himself into the true Paul thematic arch here. He goes from rejecting Paul as an evil Messiah figure/rejecting Frank's intent to saying, correcly i believe, that Paul is a victim of his actions and circumstance. Nothing about Paul in Messiah reads to me as evil, but tired and embarrassed about what his reign has brought to the galaxy. Frank's message works for me. But i also don't believe in a Messiah in my personal life, either. So Im not emotionally invested in something like this having happened in our past in the real world.
Love these discussions, thanks!
Not a book reader but I don’t see how someone walks out of the film thinking that it’s a good thing that Paul is on his way to cause the death of millions. It ends on a really unsettling note and Chani’s ambivalence makes her a useful audience avatar/guide and at the end her disappointment undercuts the ‘victory’ effectively.
Bingo! Well said.
they could show it better, right now it looks like she is angry teen jelly that paul will take new wife
@@sillylittlesheepjax6009 she's pretty well-established to hate the direction he is going; him marrying someone else just removes any reason she had to stay.
She never believed in him I cheered when he cut that dead weight loose.
@@blankname6629bro what, “dead weight” Chani is in the right
I think the movie gets across about the Jihad at least as well as the book. The Jihad is foreshadowed a little in the original Dune, but I don't remember it being made clear why it has to happen.
The ending of this movie made it pretty clear. Not only are the Fremen pretty fanatical. But they tell you the other Houses won't accept Paul's ascendency.
Frank does kind of tell you what the Wierding Way is, I think. It's the superstitious Fremen name for what the Bene Gesserit are able to do. The BG's call it Prana-bindu mastery. It's fine, detailed control of every muscle of their body.
Prama Bindu = *ULTIMATE YOGA.*
I feel like if they dubbed Paul as Muad'Dib in part one, it would've felt rushed and unearned, considering they didn't meet the Fremen until nearly the end of the film. He needed time to earn his stripes, which is what we saw here.
Books and cinema both have their beauty and pleasures. I personally don’t care what is missing in the movie from the book. That is what the book is for. The creators of this movie only had the responsibility to make the best film they could, with a reasonable run time. Mission accomplished…
I don't think Frank goofed up portraying Paul and LetoII the way he did. He just didn't mean to make them true villains. He meant to make them cautions about over trusting charismatic figures. And it's by the terrible ( though necessary) results of their actions.
I'm a religious Christian person too, and the message doesn't really bother me. I do believe Jesus is a true savior. And I do believe he's worth following totally. I'm also aware his popularity can be bent in bad ways. And of course the message about over trusting charismatic figures holds true most of the time
My second time watching this! First time after I had watched part 1 and 2, second time after watching part 1 and 2 twice each AND having read Dune for the first time. And I have to say your criticisms of the films make more sense to me though I really loved both movies and the book. Just started on Messiah and am bracing myself! I look forward to a spoiler chat after part 3 comes out. Great discussion and thank you Mike and Christopher.
I liked the movie more than Ruocchio but I get where he's coming from we just have to keep in mind that this is Villeneuve's Dune and not Herbert's. I do think we should get an extended cut even if its just for the fans.
Great discussion!
This convinced me to give Sun Eater a go. To the top of my TBR it goes :)
Villeneuve has said he's never going to release any of the deleted scenes. He doesn't for any of his movies.
Without the last scene I think it would have been provisionally one of my favorite movies of all time. There were a lot of differences with the content of the book, but I could understand them and they mostly felt in spirit with the book. Some sacrifices had to be made to draw out the story elements that only come on multiple rereads to put it into a much condensed version for a movie. Many of the changes were just making things that came out later more obvious now. I also really liked that there was a little more emphasis on Paul’s becoming part of the Fremen, that does get entirely skipped over in the book. The movie really drew out how much the Bene Gesserit are the true villains, which took a couple of times through the book for me to really think about. The visuals were incredible, this one felt so much more real and full to me than the first movie which felt empty at times. It just really bothers me how Paul and Chani’s story is changed. It makes Paul’s marrying Irulan that much worse because it makes it look like he chose Irulan and power over Chani, which is not at all how the decision works in the book. Paul and Chani being together is integral to this story and the next book, they really have their work cut out for them to walk back the changes if they make Messiah. I’m also disappointed that he’s said he’s only adapting Messiah, and won’t go past Messiah. There’s not really a great place to end, I’ll admit, but Children of Dune is incredible, and I think Messiah would miss out on a lot by excluding what happens next with Paul and Alia.
Great comment.
We all get different things out of books and stuff. For me, the water of life ceremony in the book was actually very beautiful, the sharing of loved experiences and melding of all the women of history and I didn’t think they made the ceremony at emotional in the movie but…can’t win ‘em all
Good reviews. I’m so happy that Stormbringer was your book of the month! I love pretty much everything Moorcock and Elric and think they are all good reads….. but your reading advice for Elric is pretty sensible. I’d add that if somebody reads those original main 6 and really enjoys them, then it’s worth also reading the others.
I loved the movie and thought that it perfectly set up the emotional payoffs in Dune Messiah.
The SciFi channel version is my favorite but it is very much the heroic version of the story.
This is the version that highlights the tragedy of Paul. And I liked that a lot.
1:15:25 Zoomer here & I agree. Although I don’t care for Timothee Chalamet also but Zendaya isn’t that crazy popular. It’s likely nostalgia because we Zoomers grew up with Disney Channel & we know her from there so that’s probably it.
I haven't read the book so I don't have a feel for the changes, so I loved movie. Thought it was awesome but if I'm looking back to what things slightly disappointed me, would be how things concluded a bit too fast. A moment that stood out for me would be Gurny getting back at rabban, ended in one stab. Was it longer and more satisfying in the book?
I just finished the book today, read it for the first time after watching the movie. Chani was such a standout in the movie and I was very disappointed with her character arc in the book. Shes just like a servant girl with no personality in the book
You prefer the movie version of her as an angry rebellious brat who wanted nothing to do with paul?
I'm glad this movie is popular. Even though it was a huge disappointment for me. It's still head and shoulders above anything else that's come out in years
I’m starting to think I’m crazy. 😳 Am I the only one that thought the ending was A BIG PROBLEM? Book: Paul wins, and no one is willing to truly challenge him, because he controls (is capable of destroying) the spice, without which space travel ceases to exist. Movie: Paul kinda wins against the Emperor, but the Great Houses have been delivered (due to spice-driven space travel) by the Guild (who’ll cease to exist without spice), and are willing to attack him, because who cares about the spice? 🤔 Made it seem to me like, in the universe of Movie Dune, the spice is relatively unimportant.
IMO the whole movie was a big problem.
yeah the ending flat sucked imho and a lot of the movie was superficial and disappointing
Yeah guys, that’s all a bit black & white for me. It’s not at all a bad movie to my mind, but there are a few changes that make me wonder, and that I’m not on board with.
13:30 in my opinion the different "successes" of missionaria protectiva "infected" socially and globally is cool...cuz if you consider just as Norbert Elias said in a sense that, the harder the circumstances of your environment, the more you tender to channel your anxiety via beliefs like religion, cuz you can deal with your distal situation better, if you have sth you can hope for. He compares it with central african tribes and their beliefs like voodoo.
If you compare this model to the distribution of fanatic fremen, you understand my thought...
"Denis Villeneuve's Dune is not my Dune" - thank you for summarising my view of it.
It's a work of art for sure, but it is "based on Frank Herbert's novel", but not the true Dune come to life.
Hey Mike, just started reading Dune for the first time due to the movies and your constant praising of the series, of course! Dune: Part Two hasn't escaped my mind once since viewing so I had no choice but to read the series. So... wish me luck!
Funny Stilgar was definitely a nod to the Monty Python Life of Brian messiah bit.
I think so too, you can’t avoid the comparison, so may as well embrace it with a wink and a nod
Very interesting chat between you two, as usual. Thanks!
There is something I think Christopher is missing when he compares the miniseries' duration and the movies'.
The miniseries had no budget to do properly the action scenes of the book nor the means to bring to the screen the visual majesty of Dune. It cut a lot there, did ellipses or talked of what it couldn't show. What it could do is a very thorough dramatization of the all the dialogue and most of the scenes and do it all in a style almost like a filmed stage play, with long, static scenes. That's TV at its least cinema-esque. It was good at what it did, but that's not a proper cinematographic adaptation. Personally I felt like it didn't have much to offer that the book couldn't already give me. There was no real added value. The visuals were boring, even often very bad. If you inserted back all the cinematographic moments or give them their proper length as Lynch and Villeneuve did, the miniseries would no longer be 30 min shorter than the DV movies, it would be very significantly longer. Nobody was going to give DV 300 million to do Dune again in the style of the miniseries. Even a new Dune TV show would no longer do it that way because the audience expect a more visual experience from TV nowadays.
Personally I think it was very good at adapting the text, but it's still about half of what would make it feel like Dune, some of which can be seen in the movies. I think the miniseries distorted Frank's message too. It was done in 2000, following the escalation of tensions with the middle-east, and Harrison was very interested in showing colonialism and "freedom fighting" through the eyes of the oppressed. It's debatable how true this is to Frank's intent, where Paul is hardly a liberator ultimately. He becomes another tyrant. I feel Villeneuve's version is so far the best at nailing the core theme of the dangers of religion and politics and the perils of turning leaders into saviours or superheroes. Of course that was done at the expense of some things.
The other factor not to be underestimated is that there is a major difference between what you can include in two movies separated by two years, and three episodes destined to be watched over three evenings. You can't take into account that the audience will rewatch the first movie to be back up to speed 2 years later. You have to really simplify things, and unlike the book the audience can't stop to ponder what it has learned. It has to be simplified to bits of information that can be absorbed in the moment.
PS: You guys keep bringing back Feyd's missing red hair, but the Lynch version has messed with your book memories: Feyd has curly dark hair. Chapter 35: "At the Baron's elbow walked Feyd-Rautha. His dark hair was dressed in close ringlets that seemed incongruously gay above sullen eyes". :)
Movie was PHENOMENAL
Just got home 10 min ago after seeing this, I went a day earlier than I had planned so I could hurry home and watch this discussion 😅
Haven’t read the books, but I thought it was pretty good, really good even just because 99.9% of movies made by today’s Hollywood are pretty much unwatchable imo. I certainly enjoyed it. But best film of all time as people are saying? Better than seeing LoTR for the first time? That is perplexing.
I agree with Christopher where I loved the whole thing till the very very end
Villenueve has utilized limited exposition in a visceral way. The themes are there without a bombardment of explanation.
Villeneuve dumbed Dune down to the level of Star Wars.
@@dustinneelyNPC
I need a shareable video of Christopher’s “Herbert goofed his message” lecture
Is Chani not pregnant right now? She’s wearing that blue scarf. A lot of people think that will be what drives her back to Paul in the beginning of next movie.
Didn't even consider that.
She had a son in the book who was killed by the Harkonnens but all that was left out of the movie
If Denis Villeneuve “strips for parts” anything from “Children of Dune” to put into “Dune Messiah”, or else straight up makes a “Children of Dune” down the line, I would take out what Frank Herbert did to Alia in “Children of Dune”. As a fan of Alia in the books through “Dune Messiah”-as well as in movies “Dune 1984” and “Dune 2”-I think her character was done wrong in “Children” and I want any shred of presence or memory from the Baron gone from Alia. I also like how Irulan was updated for the 2003 miniseries “Children of Dune”-and prefer that for any future “Dune” film(s)…
I agree with Chase Buck, Denis V makes movies that people will like watching. Children of Dune you could maybe do, but the magic of seeing sandworms on screen would be wearing thin and its mostly a politics story. God Emperor has an epic ending but it's really more of a TV show kind of story otherwise. Denis V has made lots of hits, he wants to keep making hits, and he has proven he knows what will be a hit. I'd trust him on that. I'm surprised he's even doing Dune Messiah. I'd love to see God Emperor on screen, but in his shoes, I don't think I'd make it either.
And yes, the Billy and Mandy episode is so fucking funny! If you haven't seen it Mike, you should watch it, you'd get a kick out of it. Perfect for any Dune fan.
The best Dune adaptation is To Tame a Land by Iron Maiden
Film was fantastic. Wish it was more faithful to the event, but I understand not having foreknowledge of whether sequels are confirmed can affect the writing direction, and Villeneuve was desperate to ensure people got the point of the story.
Isn’t 60 billion dead kind of unrealistic for a war even if it involves multiple planets. Sooner or later enough power is obtained that threats back off and power is consolidated.
I had never even heard of this series until the first movie came out and I really enjoyed that movie so right after I decided to get into the books and absolutely loved the first book it was such an awesome read I got so excited to see the direction the movie would go and waited patiently for a few years and it finally came out and I have to say I am bit disappointed I don’t even know why and I hate that I am but I feel unsatisfied with the final product. I loved the first hour and was having a good time and then I just didn’t enjoy how they handled some things in the later half but regardless I will always have a special place for these two movies because they are what got me into the books in the first place so I will always be grateful for that.
I liked Dune Messiah more then Dune. I picked up hardcore that Paul was not a good person and it made me upset. Messiah helped me understand more and I loved the ending.
In the book, I never got that Jessica was corrupted by Alia as much as she did in the movie. In Messiah I always wanted Jessica to come back and removed or kill Alia...
Ive only read them once. Need to do a reread...
I really liked the movie. In some respects, it's superior to the book. I would have appreciated the movie more if they had embraced the psychedlic weirdness of the original.
Excellent film, but Denis V's best is still Prisoners, by far.
A bit disappointing that you can't put being a book fan aside and just enjoy the movie fully. The film can never be exactly like the book, but the essence of Herbert's message is there. Plus, people finally got to know about DUNE and they're obsessed about it so that's amazing!
I mean, I liked it. Christopher is a little tougher nut to crack re: adaptation
I didn't love the first part as much. The fights were lackluster, slow choreography, but it was much better in the second even if they weren't very fast.
Overall, part 2 is epic. As a whole. Dune from Part 1 to Part 2 is pretty awesome.
Incredible film, and a wonderful adaptation! Clicking and commenting for the alogorithm, but probably won't watch as Ruocchio does not share the "vibe".
Reading Howling Dark, all the same.
Christopher is much tougher on adaptation than I.
That’s what happens when you have unreasonable expectations LOL
I agree with you guys there is nothing special about zendaya. The intended effect was to be mad that Paul cut her loose but it had the opposite effect for me.
I agree with Christopher - as much as I like the glitz of the new movies, the best telling on screen so far (for me) is the Sci-fi channel TV adaption. Despite the corny costumes and cheap looking sets, it really is true to the book in the best of ways.
The sequel series looked a lot better aesthetically, it makes you wonder why they didn't do that the first time.
Agreed. Pretty much everything was improved in Children of Dune. I wasn't thrilled with Susan Saranden's casting and performance, but other than that it was pretty spot on for me. @@OrangeHand
Mike Muad’Dib 😂
I was thinking myself afterwards...I really wish they turned Dune itself into 3 movies and not 2..because id really love more time with Feyd. I thought Butler did a great job and seeing him manifest his psychoticness for a movie and give Paul more time to destroy spice production.
The scifi miniseries is split into three parts. The book is as well. It’s written as a clear three act story so I found it weird where they ended part one in the new one.
Dune part 1 and 2 are cinematic masterpieces! Lets not kid ourselves..
I didn’t realise that about Paul to be honest I thought he was just main hero character
I love Christopher's books, but man, that guy doesn't like anything lol
I really liked the movie. I think Timothee Chalamet is a fine Paul. I think that Javier Bardem is a really good Stilgar. I do not like Zendaya’s portrayal of Chani though.
Christopher, you are on point with your views on this. I feel like I am alone with my disappointments in the film.
Tim Blake Nelson is a fantastic actor and would be perfect casting for Count Fenring - in the books isn't he described as weasel-faced / rat-like and shifty looking. Shame his bit got cut!
Ok but seriously, what's the scene Christopher came up with then was in BR2049????
I talk to CR multiple times per week and even I don’t know.
@@mikesbookreviews lol oh well. Thanks for the reply!
Agree with you on sequels. the last two were bad. Don't agree about Brian's books. The few I have read were enjoyable for what they were. There were well written space operas. They were missing the multilevel writing of Frank, but on the balance, they were good.
Can't believe the fans of the book can't let it go. So disappointing to see their immaturity. Having no idea what filmmaking is and what it takes to make a decent adaptation and still holding on to the book plot so tight it makes me wonder if the novel was ever so great or just overrated
??? I loved it
Since the movie is based on a book, some of us want to see a movie that's loyal to the book. Others like yourself who haven't read the book and simply don't care and that's your perogative. Our opinion doesn't make us "immature," tho yours makes you arrogant
I respect that you guys love the book so much but when adapting something this dense into a movie there’s no way to get every single plot point included. The novel will always be available to pick up and read, this movie was great.
I think we both know that. Hence why I said we would be nitpicking. I'm pretty happy. Christopher is just a tougher nut to crack on adaptation.
The thing an adaption needs to do is represent the ideas of the book, not care about every scene, or subplot.
Hard to follow you guys without explaining the difference or what exactly you're talking about.
Yeah, I'm with Chris on a lot of this. Like yeah Paul was bad for everyone else, but he lived up to the Fremen's religion and gave the Fremen what they wanted, even if maybe they eventually changed their minds. The religion was planted, but it also came true and Stilgar's faith was justified, Arrakis becomes a green paradise and the Fremen control their planet...but also under the control of an outsider, so maybe they didn't really get what they wanted? I don't know. Also, lol, "let me not enjoy things", exactly dude.
I think my favorite scene was probably Paul at the big meeting of all the Fremen, that one really got me, it was a powerful moment. The Sandworms riding into battle was cool. My single favorite thing about the movie though was how perfect the music was for every scene it was in, god damn it's perfect, maybe my favorite score since Lord of the Rings.
Austin Butler was great, but his voice and mannerisms reminded me of a more serious version of Zorg from The Fifth Element.
They didn't explain the Kwisatz Haderach almost at all in the movie, I can't believe anyone who didn't read the books understands what that meant. Although if I remember right, didn't the first Dune book leave it kind of vague too?
Also, in the movie, didn't Paul watch those atomics go off, like, with his eyes? I guess you don't need to be able to see anymore when you can see the future.
I just wish baby Alia was voiced by Chris Pratt
I can understand why Christopher feels the way he does as a religious person, however, I think that some people's faith and their need to fit everything into their preconceived notion of reality can be a little ridiculous at times. I think the fact that the diversity of the Fremen's belief seems way more believable and was an improvement from the book in my opinion. It reflects reality because one people group, especially one that is significantly geographically separated, are going to think differently and act differently. The Fremen's complete acceptance of Paul pretty much immediately always seemed a bit far fetched to me
Awesome movie
Saying Zendaya was the weakest link is crazy
She was the worst
She kind of was not saying it was bad but could have found someone more suitable imo
Chani, Stilgar, and Jessica reflect the three forces acting on/against Paul. Culture warriors are going to look for that shit in every film that is released. its tiresome.
Did anyone else see Christopher Walken in space or emperor Shaddam IV?
Christopher walken needing a haircut is what I saw.
I thought the movie was great. I read the books years ago. The score, the acting, the special effects, the story exceeded my expectations.
Catching up on this - if we need a director to go weird, Nolan is not the guy
Get Guillermo Del Toro: Gigahitler worm will also be very horny
Ngl, I don't get why everyone is acting like these movies are the greatest thing ever and I think I figured out why. It's obviously well made and I feel it should be a standard rather than an exception, but I can't take Timothy however you spell his last name seriously and I don't really care about Zendaya?(Idk who this person is). All the other actors just mogged their asses in terms of performance and when the support is better than the leads everything just kinda falls flat
I think they both did amazingly. You disliking actors (can't even bother to get the name right, and expect to be taken seriously?) doesn't make their performance bad.
@@sleepyalexa you must be really fun at parties
@@Angel-sh7mn That reply doesn't make sense. But nonsensical whining seems to be your go-to.
I’m with Christopher all the way . Maybe this is why I love Sollan empire so much lmao.
Chani just took me off the movie every time she opened her mouth . She just feels like a New Yorker whenever she is speaking English . And Paul feels like Tom holland at times lol😊
This guy had a problem with the division amongst the fremen about the religion? Good lord he’s probably just not a film fan. Said he hasn’t seen a movie in a year?
Agree with Chris... I wanted to like it and I came out disappointed.
The god emperors of dune themselves
Loved the movie, but I’m a bit worried with where the story is going with the changes made to chani
Ruocchio disliking Silgar's one comical line because he felt a pang for his own fragile religious beliefs is pretty pathetic tbh
I hundred percent agree with Christopher. I am disappointed with a few decisions but I still loved the adaptation
i read all the Dune novels several times and again, sometimes in order but ultimately it was the movie of David Lynch which introduced me into this unique one shot name :; " Dune " The debate around adaptation never really hit any relevant marks for me. I love Dune almost as a phenomenon of its own. I m glad that Denis Villeneuve 20 years within the 2000 millenium found Timothée Chalamet and was finally up to embrass his own journey with this one shot name phenomenon.
I stopped watching after "battle of arrakeen sucked"😂. He's lucky his books are amazing
He did not stop watching. He just didn't like the last 30 minutes.
I watched the whole movie.
I was referring to your statement at 5:22 of the video, kind sir. In all sincerity, I can't wait for disquiet gods @@SunEaterBooks
@@offworlder4694 I'm saying I stopped watching when he made the statement at 5:22
@@SunEaterBooks get your flame suit on brother. People are going to come at you with torches and pitchforks for having an opinion. I'm on your side, but I'm actually angry about this film. Girl boss Chani infuriates me.
Feyd talking like Vladimir killed it for me. I would have bought into it if not for that.
Yeah, it was a little over done. Didn't kill it for me, but every time he talked it took me out of it. He's not supposed to be the disgusting old Baron, he's the attractive young scion, so I don't know why they bothered with the voice.
Yes it's "Villeneuve's" Dune, NOT yours! (nor does it "belong" solely to anyone, not even to book purists!)
I don't think Frank Herbert would have had any reservations either - particularly since he was unfortunate enough to live to see the Lynch film...
But people have the right to critique the film so keep crying
@@neutral_narrThey sure do! But they are generally not knowledgeable enough about how to make a movie (especially a sci-fi one) that can expect to generate enough revenue to earn its keep!
Lynch film is stuff of legend...
@@PeloquinDavid Rucchio has mentioned before that he is not a filmmaker nor will he ever have the intent of being one so I don't know why who are getting so defensive over his opinion.
@@holydissolution85 ... and a guilty pleasure for many of us 😉!
these dune movies are a terrible adaptation. the end of dune part 2 was so ridiculously dumb. denis villinueve really shit the bed with these.
Enjoyed this commentary and speculation right up until you both said The Northman was great. That movie was absolute dogshit.
Good god. You should make your own movie. This is an adaptation- there WAY too much to cover in a movie for this book. You want a ten part TV show- this is not the medium this is made for.
It was still good despite the changes 🤷
It's his opinion quit whining over it and he said that he liked the film except for the ending
Way too much to cover in a movie? Please!!!! He had nearly 6 hours between these 2 films. This movie is crap.
@@dustinneelyYou are such a hater lmfao. Get a life.
@@dustinneelyYou are such a hater lmfao.
Dune 1 and 2 by DV is dogsh*t. Woke checklist, bland, nonsense. Just watch the 1984 classic Dune by David Lynch.
What woke stuff?
The 1984 movie is absolute hot garbage, tf are you on? 😂
The miniseries? You’ve lost all credibility.
The miniseries is great.
This discussion was so snob!