Audi Q6 e-tron charging on Ionity 800 V Ionity & V4 supercharger 400 V
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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Hi Björn, an addition to charging at the Supercharger for the 800-volt based E-GMP from Hyundai and Kia.
I have tested all Supercharger versions with my Kia EV6 and found out some interesting things:
From start to 87.5%, the vehicle charges with the maximum charging power, which Tesla displays in the app as 96-97kW.
At Supercharger V2, however, only 85-89kW of the 97kW reaches the battery because 4.7kW are deducted for thermal management and 8kW are losses.
At V3 and V4, a constant 95kW is fed into the battery, regardless of whether the thermal management system draws an additional 4.7kW from the charging station or not.
Conversely, this means that charging on the V3 and V4 is not only faster, but also cheaper, as 6-10kWh per hour more is supplied to the battery by Tesla than on the V2.
If you want to know more, you can find the video via this link: ruclips.net/video/lTgBD-ItHvs/видео.html
Another surprise was, for example, that even at the moderate charging power of 97kW, the BMS control unit overheats and the Korean siesta of 3 minutes is inserted at over 80% SOC.
This caused the V2 to stop charging, but not the V4.
Best regards
Dirk
54% added in 15 minutes, very good! BMW iX50 managed to add 40% in 15 minutes, so the iX50 is on par with the Model S and Q8 107 kWh.
Higher Voltages are helpful when you'd otherwise be hitting the current limit of chargers / connectors. Apart from that pack voltage doesn't really matter much.
Q6 is turning out to be a great car. Might end up on the shopping list
If only it came out 6 months earlier…
Your claim is simply not true. 800V charging will always be more efficient than 400V charging.
Hyundai/Genesis/Kia e-GMP cars charge at 97 kW on 400v chargers
And it's using the rear motor inverter to step up the voltage. It's more of a compatibility mode. At least here in Europe nearly all recently build HPC are 800v. Only Tesla and Kemp power are 400v
@@MichaelPanzer "Only Tesla" is kind of misleading. It is the largest network by far and most use it.
It is very likely that there will be more 800-volt EVs in the future. For car manufacturers, switching to this system isn't too difficult. The current problem is that there are so many old-style 400-volt chargers installed that car manufacturers have had to add electronics to ensure cars can also be charged at a reasonable power level from 400-volt chargers. The Q6 has battery splitting, and many others have converters to 800 volts.
Higher voltage electonics are (currently) more expensive than 400V class ones. There are multiple factors, including higher insulation clearances, special transistors and lower production volumes. As with everything: This will get cheaper and more common as time comes.
Apart from tesla SUCs, I don't actually see chargers with output powers above ~120kw that are only up to 500V very often nowadays.
@@Marco-rx4cg Mainly, the 800 system is more expensive to manufacture because the car must be compatible with 400-volt chargers (battery split or voltage step-up converter). Implementing this requires additional electronics. Similarly, the charging cabinet needs extra electronics. One significant factor contributing to the higher price of charging cabinets (which may not necessarily be related to manufacturing costs) is that the 800 volt technology is new, and charging operators are willing to pay a premium for it because it gives them a competitive advantage.
@@user-hb8sq6ce9u True, voltage conversion in the vehicle (however it‘s implemented) is an additional expense.
However, as pretty much all modern HPCs (except tesla) above i‘d say 150kw are already 1000V capable, i don‘t think the decision on weather to support the higher voltage even arises.
Alpitronic only builds 1000V chargers and they are very common here in germany.
Your 800 V hype rant got a lot of good points but some errors. Only reason why 800 V cabling looks bigger is because of insulation material but it weights much less than the copper you need for 400 V systems to tolerate the amps. You can have less copper and materials everywhere and lose a lot weight going 800 V or even higher. Less resistance too. 800 V has so many advantages just based on physics. If it happens that most efficient cars atm are 400 V doesnt make it better or even equal than 800 V
TBH, they all charge reasonably quickly. Just need more rapid chargers!
My pushback to Bjorn on 400v vs 800v is that the 400v architecture is mature tech that has maxed out, but 800v tech is only just beginning. 800v allows for some really next-level charging speeds that 400v cannot touch.
Q8 was the fastest from around 80-85%. Also it charged much more kWh.
Yes, the Q8 charged to 90%in the same time as the EV9, but it has a bigger battery, so it actually charged faster in kW than the EV9 to 90%.
Actually, your test on 400V and 800V chargers and the corresponding difference in energy, relates to loses on the car itself or on the car plus the charger.
This is an old query of mine, as I've the impression that the operators are charging the users on the power that is imputed to to the charger, not the power actually delivered to the car.
Being that the case, the end user would be paying for both the inefficiencies of the car and the inefficiency of the operator's charging units.
Could be interesting to see a test of charging the same car in similar conditions on different charger brands and then also test the same charger brand but on different operators.
Then, it should be possible to compare not only the efficiency of the chargers themselves, but also if different operators are billing for energy in different ways (energy that they consume from the grid or energy delivered to the car).
Don't know about other countries but in Germany you must charge the customer for whats getting output at the connector. Losses in the charger are on the operator.
However, they will of course still include all costs in the per kwh price.
By charger I do mean actual DC fast chargers. AC charging is a different story.
In DC you get billed the net amount
In AC you get billed the gross amount (conversion losses are in the car)
Aero and efficient drivetrain definitely more important I think.
800V for the win. I do prefer it, but IRL my 400v BMW i5 does charge fast enough.
For most efficient: just don’t get an SUV. EQE, EQS, model 3, BMW i4 are all sedans…
The advantage of 800 V is with the same power, the current is only half as high and is essentially responsible for the losses. Losses occur not only in the cables, but in every electric and electronic component. 800 V has only 25% of the heat loses of a 400 V system - given the same internal resistance. That is why an 800 V system has slimmer cables with the same power. This is the reason why 800 V was brought into cars by Porsche and was used in a race car (919). They wanted to minimize heat losses at high performance and they wanted low weight through slimmer cables. Charging stations with 300 or 350 kW do not have massive wires, they usually have cooled plugs, which makes them more bulky. A problem that Tesla can face if they will one day offer more than 250 KW.
10:31 V3 supercharger cable is liquid-cooled, that's why it can be so thin.
Ionity's 800 V cables are also liquid cooled but they are quite thick because of insulation needed.
Unless Tesla uses the 4680 cells and allow 350kw+ on V4 stations and others soon enough for all of their cars, they will loose the high power charging speed competition lol. The chinese cars are getting ahead in both price, range and charging speed..
Esa curva de de carga es fantástica
Isn't the fat e-tron quicker than the Model S? It has a 14kWh larger battery, so just comparing SoC isn't quite right. (Not talking about km/h charged ofc since the Tesla is more efficient...)
By using just SoC, the test is comparing which car has the highest C rate. For example, the Silverado EV charges at 360kW but it's really not that impressive when you consider it is a >200kWh battery while an Ioniq 5 will do 240kW on an ~80kWh battery. The Silverado will take in more kWh in the same amount time compared to the Ioniq 5 but it would be at a lower SoC.
@@symawd yeah maybe. I guess my point would be, that it is more useful to compare the actual charging speed as in how many kW/h or km/h can they charge. That figure is what matters for the driver, isn't it?
To me, the video tried to compare the ability of the cars to charge quickly and there, the fat e-tron was able to load about 10% more in the same time.
800V does help, but not as much as you might expect/think
the argumentation with the 1000km challenge and efficency based on car models and then talking about 400v und 800v is kind of pointless. What exactly are you comparing there?
Also the 400v and 800v Q6 charging comparison is also pointless because the charging times are different due to the power drawn. The idea would be to have the same power, like 200kw one time transmitted with 400v and one time with 800v and then you can see the differences.
I always wonder what Bjorn point is in trying to make 400v cars look good. Sure 800v won't be the saviour, but it will be the future because WHY NOT? It's better and the only downside is cost (at the moment). The cost is going down and the charging times in the 10 to 60 or 10 to 80 window is just way faster so there is the benefit. to 100% the difference isn't that big anymore but that's also not the sell.
Tesla has also switched to 800v in the cybertruck for the same reasons the others have done, but their stuck with their 400v charging network for now.
Also one last point: when you look at the ioniq 5 N compared to the Tesla 3 performance in the tracktests that exist yet, you can see that the ioniq 5 has way higher potential for recuperation (nearly 300kw) and also has no heat issues on track. Alfred Bierman from Hyundai has also explicitly said that this wouldn't be possible with an 400v car because the cables would start melting after some time.
Good you mention the Cybertruck, because that utterly disproves your point.
Despite having 800V, it does not offer the same charging curve as other 800V cars.
You know which 900V car also does not offer the same charging curve as the cars shown here? The Lucid Air.
Voltage is not the factor here. Cell format and chemistry is way more important. All fast charging cars have Pouch or prismatic cells, none have cylindrical.
This includes 400V systems like the BYD blade Model Y, which Björn even tested against the Ioniq. The reason why this particular Model Y charges faster than any other Tesla is not because it has 800V (it does not) but because it uses a different cell format and chemistry.
Björn is on point: Classic Cylindrical cells have higher internal resistance and therefore
emit more heat. None of this has anything to do with overall system voltage.
There are suggestions that 4680 might produce less heat than 2170, but we don't know for sure yet.
Bjorn, I think you are missing the main point with 800V vs 400V architecture - you can the same power with half the current. The current is what generate the heat losses, not the voltage. So, if the same cells are arranged in a 100kWh pack at 800V you will need half the current to get/put a certain amount of power vs the same 100kWh pack at 400V. This means that you can potentially charge it twice as fast (actually more, as the heat losses are I^2 proportional). The same also applies during discharge - i.e. when driving. Comparing different cells with different architectures does not make much sense, as there are way more variables that affect charging speed or performance (cell internal resistance, pack cooling, etc). Because of this I think all future high end cars will be 800V as it makes a lot more sense.
This is not entirely correct. You need to think about where the current is. A 400V battery vs a 800V battery you sure do have half the current at the same power, but that current is only present in the charging cables and the motor windings. So 800V architecture will have lower heat losses there.
However! The cells are always at the same voltage no matter how you arrange them. The losses in the battery only depends on the internal resistance of each individual cell.
To illustrate this more clearly, say I have four AA batteries. If you string them up it becomes a 6V battery pack. To deliver 6W, the entire pack needs to deliver 1A, because it's serial then each cell delivers 1A and 1.5V. however if you arrange them in two pairs, that is a 3V pack. To deliver the same 6W, you need 2A. However since it's parallel between the pairs, each pair only delivers 1A, and each cell still delivers the same 1.5V 1A.
So at least on charging, as long as you are not current limited in the cabeling and the chargers, there's no difference in the cells!
@@chengcao418you are correct sir
Most losses occur within the cell, so the outside system voltage is not relevant.
I.e. if Tesla would use the same cells as Hyundai, they would get about the same charging speed even if they stayed at 400V
This is not correct. The reason is that you would need to half the number of cells in paralell to create a 800 volt package. So with same charging speed the 800 volt pack will have the same cell current as a 400 volt package.
Yes, the difference is in the cables. Porsche claimed to have saved a lot of weight by using thinner cables due to the 800V architecture in the Taycan. That's a good reason to use it. Less weight and less copper used. For the battery it's all irrelevant.
Very interesting video. Especially the 400V vs 800V. Both charging and myth busting afterwards. Thanks for making it 👍
The named 400V efficient cars like EQE or BMW will switch to 800V at short notice. As I drive an Ioniq6 the combination of efficiency and 800V is in my opinion the future and an efficient Mercedes EQE makes for long distant runs more sense with charging sessions under 20 minutes… and 800V. Some people might have the opinion that 400V can also provide short charging sessions but I see no 400V car that can compete with 800V systems (TM S and MB EQS might be 400V quick chargers, they would be quicker with 800V😉)
It is not 800V architecture that provides high C-rate charging.
It is only the chemistry of the cell. (And the cooling system)
The same chemistry of the battery pack of a ioniq6 in 400V architecture would be as fast in Tesla SC that allows 250kW than in 800V architecture. (239kW for ioniq6)
But in orher HPC at 400V, it would be limited to 200kW peack because of amperage limit (500A at 400V --> 200kW)
Thats why it is 800V. Because of the chargers.
But it charges like a boss thx to chemistry of the cell. Not because of the 800V.
@@shivan6416 ok, understood, thanks for explanation. So, 800V are a result of the existing charger structure
Hi Bjørn, we were just in Norway and rented a Tesla Model 3. The most frustrating thing about this was the difficulty of charging easily. You had to have an RFID or download an app. Nothing where you can use a CC directly on the station like on the gasoline pumps.
What is the reason for this? If you know.
BTW, living in Canada it was fun to see all the stations all over the place, and at the most remote areas :)
You should just installed the Tesla app. But all new stations from now need to get a card reader.
@@evkx It was only one Tesla charger in the area so it would not helped. And I do have the app for Canada :)
Imagine how much easier that would be with card readers?
@@tootallnoAgreed. Credit cards are the best solution for travelers in foreign countries. Several charging apps are only available in the country specific app store - and support only the local language and require a local address for registration.
EV9 curve is amp limited. Not chemistry. It goes slowly up with voltage.
Isn’t 800V more relevant when you only charge to 60% for instance and do more stops - but pit stop style (very quick) ?
True, There are not more lost with 400V, its just saves copper in cables and motor.
A car manufacturer benefits from an 800-volt system because thinner copper wires can be used in the motors and transmission lines. Also, fewer parallel semiconductors are needed in the inverter and charging electronics because the current is lower (semiconductors have a voltage tolerance of 900-1000 volts, but the current determines how many are needed in parallel connections). For example, in Q6 charging, the current is about 400 amps at both voltages.
There's a physical limit how fat and heavy you can make a charging cable. That put's the limit on how fast you can charge 400V EV (~250kW). And at that limit 800V system is simply more efficient with lower loss.
Yes, theoretically you can make arbitrarily thick cable, but reality and practicality has a say in that.
@@user-hb8sq6ce9u they also need to double the amounts of bushbars between cells with 800 volts. And that is weight also.
10:00 800v vs 400v is a choice that needs to take into account the particular country charging infrastructure. 800V vehicles will to well in chargers rated for that (or higher), 400V will do well in charges rated for 400V.
Most of the chargers in Europe are 800V.
@@zeedustrakokwe are right now an vacation in Letvia und Lithuania, and the charging infrastructure is ok, but far away from being good. A lot of AC and 400V, sometimes just 25-60kw and only a few 800V systems.
@@zeedustrakok between most and all there's a big difference. In Portugal even the "smaller" fast charging points (100/120/160kW), tend to be 800V, meaning if you go there with 400V architecture you will be crying....not because of the slow speed, but because many are charged "per minute"
How did you get just 4 minute difference in charging time from 10 to 100% when the charging curves as you showed indicate that charging speed of 400v is half of the 800v for the roughly first 30% of charging?
From apprx. 40% they all charge at a similar speed. So the majority of the difference is made in the 13-40% intervall. That interval is only 9 minutes of charging time in the Q6 and G9, but 13 minutes in the Q8.
@@eirik500 you're right, the 1+ hour charging time isn't really important (no one would do that anyway on road trip) but 9 minutes is 30 percent faster than 13 minutes, which is a lot! So 800v isn't as overrated as bjorn is saying then
@@dejo1280 Even if it is 30-40%, it is only 4 minutes, so not even a toilet break if one have to walk a bit... Also unanswered is how fast is it at a max 450V charging stall?
Is that an iX2 you’re sitting in?🧐
Korrekt
With current battery sizes (usually around 80kWh), 800V has little real advantage, as the limitation here is mainly at the cell level. Only a few premium vehicles with 100kWh+ batteries can achieve a noticeable time advantage here, as the CCS standard has been limited.
However, manufacturers also offer 700A CCS plugs, so there is still a lot possible here.
With the vehicles shown here, the Q6 would be able to charge just as quickly @400V/700A if this were permitted - after all, the cell itself doesn't care what's going on in the charging cable.
And after about 6 minutes, this drops to 200kW anyway, which would be covered by a completely normal 400V system. With a 400V architecture, the Q6 would have taken about 2 minutes longer - nice to have, but not the big deal.
And who knows when there will be more stable cells in the future that can charge 200kW to 80%, these batteries would be faster than all current 800V systems.
Sooner or later, 800V will be the new standard, possibly even higher voltages - but 400V will still be enough for a few years without a major loss of time for many cars.
Wrong, 800V always has advantages in terms of efficiency. Also you take slow Western charging speeds as a comparison for your thesis at 4C, which is in theory 0-100% in 15min at constant max charging power but in reality comes down to 5-80% in 15min, a 80kWh battery would already need 320kW power, that is not possible with 400V chargers.
At 5C you would already need 400kW. And 80kWh are just mid-sized batteries nowadays. Even in the lower end mid-range EVs you will find 100kWh batteries, for instance in the Zeekr 007, upcoming Mercedes CLA or Smart #5, all 800V of course.
People here are brainwashed by outdated Tesla cars and think they understand the world lol.
CATL and BYD are working together on a 6C battery due for release at the end of this year or beginning 2025. Even a 50-60kWh battery would need 300-360kW then.
800V will be the standard for ALL EVs except sub-compact cars like the Renault 5. 400V is craaazy outdated and it speaks more than a thousand words that Tesla still has 400V in all their main vehicles and ZERO 800V compatible chargers.
@@Aztasu 🥱 a lot of theoretical blabla about what might/might be in the future.
And it's nice that you assume that future batteries will charge consistently with 5C or 6C from 5-80%.
You obviously didn't understand anything of my text, and your last text suggests otherwise...
@@Zedus-rl9hp you seem to have no idea, sorry. you must be a Tesla fanboy. A Porsche Taycan (Audi e-tron GT) charges with 300kW(3.1C) until 65% with its 97kWh net battery and it only has 3.4C max charging rate and a NMC battery. The Zeekr 007 with Zeekr's 75kWh "golden" LFP battery charges over 220kW until 65%, that is around 3C charge rate even at this SoC, the max is at 5.2C (390kW with 75kWh battery). And that is quite a small-ish battery size nowadays. The 100kWh battery pack in the Zeekr 007 is a 4.5C battery from CATL as far as I know and will charge around 300kW until 65%.
Take into account that nobody needs to charge until 80% or higher on a regular basis anymore since the batteries provide great range and charging speeds nowadays. So any charging station under 300kW, will ALMOST ALWAYS limit your charging speeds.
If you think those are only numbers for expensive sports cars like the Porsche Taycan or some chinese-only EVs then you are wrong again.
The first vehicle in Europe with 4C max charging power capabilities will be the Smart #5. It will arrive Q1 2025, so maybe in 6 months from now. The next to arrive in 2025 could be the updated Zeekr 001 and BYD Seal (Seal 07), also with 4C.
More german EVs will have 800V as well, like the Mercedes CLA, which arrives Q1 2025, or the BMW iX3 which will be revealed in summer 2025. They will have similar charging speeds like the already available 800V Audi Q6 e-tron or Porsche Macan, so 10-80% in 20min-21min. The Mercedes CLA has 250kW + 50kW boost, so 300kW max charging, with its big 90kWh net battery capacity, which should behave like the Audi Q6 (which has 275kW) over the entire charging session, maybe slightly faster. The 90kWh NMC battery with RWD enables the CLA to post an impressive 750km WLTP range. The entry-level LFP battery probably has around 73kWh-74kWh and should be good for 220-225kW (propabl also 10-80% in 21min) and 600km. The CLA is a direct Model 3 competitor btw and just stomps it into the ground. The BMW iX3 should have around 275kW-320kW charging power with the 90kWh mid-size battery and the bigger 105kWh battery respectively. Due to the large battery options and also good efficiency the iX3 will have impressive range even as a mid-size SUV. Let's see if the i3 sedan will have 90kWh as max. The Audi A6 will be available in 2025 as well and might offer 700km max WLTP range with the Q6 battery size. All german 800V EVs are pretty close together in specs here but the Mercedes and BMW offerings will have a bit more range. The charging speeds are somewhat decent even compared to chinese EVs and the driving range are class leading due to good efficiency and big batteries. Without 800V the combination of both, charging speeds and big batteries, would not be possible. Chinese manufacturers offer 800V almost across the board nowadays, except for sub-compact or cheap economy cars.
Only Teslas and Volkswagens (they will have an 800V platform in 2028 and they still have Audi and Porsche) will continue to have 400V system. And at least Volkswagen has figured out already how to create nice and stable charging curves and have good thermals.
What this video really highlights is the limitations of the CCS connector. Only being able to move 500 amps max at any voltage. Tesla overdrives their NACS and CCS connectors to around 650 amps with active temperature monitoring.
I’m curious in the US whether we’ll see way better 400v charge times once other cars go NACS, and whether we see a higher current CCS connection in Europe.
500A CCS limit is another myth.
@@lucistnikRead the CCS standard
Please also try this at a max 400V charger, like a Tesla Supercharger.
Please watch the video...
@@bjornnylandDid you start both at 10%? A side-by-side comparison video would be nice.
@@bjornnyland😂
❤❤❤
If you go to 800v, your going to use half the amps thus creating a lot less heat in the battery so you can hold a peak charging rate longer, or go to a higher peak charging rate. There are a lot of benefits in going to 800v around charging times. For a Tesla to charge at 250 kW they are going to 680 or so amps, that creates a ton of a heat, on an 800v car they could charge at around 350 amps which means the battery will heat up a lot slower so they could hold peak longer.
This video pretty much disproves this point.
Also: When charging a Tesla at a different operator, the limit is 200kW. Despite that, the charging curve does not change significantly, indicating that heat is not the primary consideration here.
@@theipc-twizzt2789 No the video does not disprove what I said, It actually proves it if you understand the concept of more amps = more heat for the given voltage. If you were looking at the pack temperature you would see that the 800v cars take longer to heat up when charging because of lower amps. All batteries have to still follow a C rate but you can go well above for a % of the batter if you can control the temperature. Lower amps are the easiest way to control the temperature. A Tesla is limited to 200 kW on a non Tesla charger because you are limited to 500 amps with CCS, 400v * 500 Amps is 200,000 watts, IE 200 kW. A Tesla supercharger when charging a Tesla does not follow CCS rules which is why they go above 650 amps when charing their cars, and battery temp is the main thing that is followed for the charging ramp down.
It's the same amount if cells. 180 cells in series for 800V and 2 blocks of 90 cells for 400V. At 800V each cell gets full amps at 400V each cell only gets half the amps so in theory you could double the total amps for 400V and each cell will have the same amps as 800V. The limitation must be in plugs/wires/contactors.
@@dlewis787 I think you ought to read what I wrote again.
Maybe you misunderstood. Charging your Tesla at 150kW (because my 200kW remark seems to have confused you) will not influence your charging curve significantly. The reason for that is that heat is a secondary consideration.
@@theipc-twizzt2789 As someone who owns one it does. If you take a Model 3 or Model Y to a V3 super charger it only holds peak speeds for a short period of time, if you go into the service menu and look at battery temperatures depending on what battery you have, just after 50C or just before 60C battery temp it will throttle off peak speeds and drop the charging rate fast. If you went to a V2 charger that is not shared at the time and pull 150 kW you will hold 150 kW peak speeds much longer because it takes longer to reach the temperature at what the battery will throttle charging speed. At the cars voltage you're only pulling about 400 amps.
Je suis très surpris en tant que propriétaire d’un e-tron S (modèle 2021). Je charge bien mieux, entre 80 et 100%, que toutes les voitures présentées ici, alors que ma voiture « plafonne » à 150 (152) kW en charge en-dessous de 80%… Ma plus grosse charge, de 3% à 100% sur une borne Ionity, a pris 40 minutes (batterie de 95 kWh brut). En détail : 84,296 kWh chargés, durée 40’49“.
Cela signifie-t-il que les progrès ne sont pas si élevés que cela ? Je dois rendre mon e-tron début 2025 et je suis intéressé par le SQ6. Évidemment, je trouverai décevant que la charge ne soit finalement pas meilleure (voire même pas au même niveau) que celle sur mon Audi e-tron S actuel…
Youre missing the point about 800V battery packs, its half the strain on each cell while charging and discharging with high power.
If you charge a 400V and a 800V battery at 200kW the 400V cells will be taking double power and therefore its better with 800V and this will last much longer.
800V for the win!
NB. Also tesla cybertruck has 800V pack voltage and the tesla model 2 will have 800V packs.
And Tesla v4 superchargers will support 800V when model 2 hits the market soon😊
I don't think this statement is correct: "If you charge a 400V and a 800V battery at 200kW the 400V cells will be taking double power and therefore its better with 800V and this will last much longer."
The cells are always at the same voltage no matter how you arrange them. So you get the same current on the cell level in both the 400V system and the 800V system I believe.
Korrekt
This is not correct. There is not less strain on a cell with 800 volt vs 400 volt. If you charge a 100kWh pack on 400 volt or 800 volt an the charging time is the same the strain is excatly the same. If 800 volt increse charging speed the strain increase. A 100kWh 800 volt pack will have half the number of cells in paralell compared to a 400 volt packg with same cells/capacity.
@@evkx Not sure why my first comment is no longer shown, think Björn was saying Korrekt in response to that comment (I was saying that I believe jonbraathen statement was incorrect)
There are strong rumours that the Model 2 has been cancelled. This is because the Chinese car makers have entered this market and are capturing this segment. Tesla’s profit margin on a Model 2 would be no where near that which it enjoys with Model 3 and Y and now being eroded as they’ve price cut to remain competitive. Musk instead wants focus on “robotaxi” development.
Thx for the 800V hype at the end !
C-Rate only depends on chemistry of the cells.
As long as the pack cant charge faster than 200kW (HPC at 400V usually goes 500A except for Tesla SC) 800V architecture is pointless.
Above 200kw of charging speed, HPC at 400V are blocked by amperage and need to work at 800V in order to maintain amperage at a "low" level. At least less than 500A.
800V architecture is not usefull for the car, it is necessary for chargers !
In order to make chargers that can deliver more than 200kW with 500A limit.
Current 320kW HP are based on 800V / 400A.
In a same way, 1000V architecture for trucks in order to go 500kW cause their huge pack can take that power with actual chemistry.
BMW iX5 Hydrogen video coming?
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