I like how they portrayed them with English accents - I'm guessing that often gets overlooked. People tend to forget that the American Revolution was also a transatlantic British civil war.
It was one of the few revolutions that didn't result in unadulterated bloodshed between those trying to craft a new government and their constituents. France, Russia, and others all failed in this regard and suffered greatly for it.
Tom Wilkinson is a treasure…an under appreciated one. He has knocked everything out of the park that I’ve seen him in…from Franklin to Joe Kennedy, Sr, to General Fromm in Valkyrie. And Paul Giamatti is the best pure actor of my generation…period.
"Thinking aloud is a habit responsible for much of mankind's misery." And, "perfectly acceptable to insult someone in private, and sometimes they might even thank you for it afterwards." True words of wisdom many could learn from. No one knows for certain if Franklin actually said these words, but it certainly sounds like something he would say.
guyfroml I'm pretty sure it was said like that back then too. Franklin just grasped that people were more inclined to listen when you put it more gently.
Unfortunately, silence and politics don’t normally go together. People tend to confuse politics and diplomacy. Hence while the good doctor franklin didn’t become president. Not to say he wasn’t an extremely talented and insightful intellect.
Franklin was in my opinion, the greatest American politician. He was sensitive, objective and realistic. He understood the British and respected his lineage, but he also had vision and calculated thought on his side. A great man.
@@MusicAsWeMakeIt😂 Obama and Franklin in the same sentence? Any of the last 40 years for thar matter in comparison has begotten a single politician worthy of carrying his bed pan
@@MusicAsWeMakeIt Truman was another that comes to mind, but he didn't possess Franklin's "larger than life" character; additionally, he was as well-educated, but he was a well-rounded and realistic politician.
@@erniebanks2437Ben was also very much indulgent in other ways which is why many of his family hated him. And I am not talking about his son (the one with the kite) who chose the British and left for English. Franklin was very human, complicated man. Fortunately for the U.S., he was an excellent politician who loved the U.S. I respect his contributions to America but I do not like him as a person. I recommend that you look at his own writings and deeper into history - don’t take my word for it. 😉
I haven't seen the Adams story but he should have listened to Franklin. Franklin was the first international celebrity. He was a sensation because he was himself, brilliant, witty, and flirtatious. People could not get over how simply he dressed. His fur hat became all the rage eventually finding its way to the head of Catherine the Great of Russia. This clip alludes to Franklin's popularity by showing him being immortalized by the great Houdon, who also did a portrait of George Washington wearing a topless toga.
Dr Franklin is my favorite historical figure. If I were ever to get a hold of a time machine, I would love to have some very long conversations with him.
Ben meets John Quincy. John Quincy knew Ben Franklin, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, and also knew Abraham Lincoln. Gerald Ford knew LOTS of people...starting with Harry Truman.....and then also knew George W Bush.....
@Mike Daneau...you are right. Of our first 5 presidents John Adams was the only one not re-elected to a 2nd term. From what I've read he was a difficult man much of the time. I believe the actor playing Adams gives a fairly accurate portrayal.
McCullough's book is a popular history, and does overdramatize John Adams' life. So if you want to judge a character's true worth, read their writings and letters. Never rely on a popular history or a miniseries to make a proper judgment. However I respect McCullough for bringing attention to these people and taking them off their pedestals. We often regard the founding fathers as like gods or perfect men, and we forget that like many, they had faults and weren't just loved by all they knew.
"I will not volunteerily throw on the chains of france while i struggle to remove those of great britain!" what a great scene john was wise beyond his time and someone who deserves more recognition then he got.
And yet, despite everything, Team USA got what it needed from France; money, troops, powder & shot, even a fleet of French warships at the Battle of Yorktown. The French got...their own Revolution. And Napoleon. Oh, well; you can't win 'em all. 😜
The French got a distracted and split British military. That was their MO for backing the colonists, after all. The problem was they were worried about their enemy abroad they ignored the one at home.
@@crazyman8472 Look at Egypt now though, not faring much better on its own either. Good Conquerors make things better and for the most part he did as long as you weren’t fighting him. If history has taught me anything it’s that the people of the sand either respect a firm hand or no hand at all.
I acknowledge Paul G's body of work, but William Daniel's Adams seems more accurate; bold, pushy, confident and self-absorbed. Nonetheless, I look forward to seeing the whole series someday.
It's a shame that people are letting McCullough's book sour them on Jefferson and Franklin. McCullough's work ventures into hagiography of Adams and demonizes pretty much everyone Adams ever had a conflict with (which is a long and distinguished list that includes the likes of Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, and Hamilton). In truth, Adams was a vain, stubborn, pompous individual who was rightfully ignored as a failure for two centuries before being glorified by McCullough's revisionism.
Mr. Franklin simply went native when he got to France. If not for John Adams getting him back on course while he was there, Mr. Franklin would have been just a footnote in History.
Franklin was already famous all across Europe. He was the man that tamed lightning! That was the idea behind sending the two of them; Franklin's reputation gets you invited to meetings with important people, Adams then negotiates with them.
I think you are a little biased, Franklin was a great man in his own right and in my opinion did more for the republic thru his diplomacy that most presidents
@@2000Betelgeuse Franklin was great, and understood diplomacy, but i tend to agree more with John Adams decisions. Ben Franklin understood how the world was, John Adams understood the way it should be. Franklin's approach was that the status quo works, Adams was that the status quo is what got us into the situation in the first place and that the truth and honesty was, however ugly, required to set us free. I do admire both, they were very smart individuals.
Amen...with all of the stresses and strains that they had on them - not only founding a new nation mind you but having death ON SIGHT over their heads - I'm suprised they didnt get into MORE fights -response to thedemoboy
@Falcon988 I think he wasn't suited for it in times of peace. I think that in this time of Revolution he was perfect. He was completely right in showing people how ridiculous it was to stay under the rule of an oppressive government.
In truth '? You know truth? Than you know each of their hearts as does God. No sir, in truth, God reads hearts, and I suspect that John Adams disguised his pride to God and his fellow men more poorly than the others you so esteem.
@@infonut Not sure we're on the same page. But sure. What do you suppose Trust Buster Teddy meant by carry a big stick? Not backing down maybe? Representing ruggedness and strength for the American people? If only we had more Teddy's today.
Ben was right about not speaking your mind. I remember reading that one of the worst things a president can do is say what he plans to do. As soon as he does, half the country will immediately turn against it even if it's in their best interests to support him.
I love the Ben Franklin in this movie as well. He was not just a smart fat guy flying a kite. He was a leader and a revolutionary, someone people came to for advice.
+mic of orion True maybe the best thing I 've ever seen on television,if all of history was taught this way maybe more people would pay attention to it. Maybe we don't need history teachers anymore.
Awesome, how they work in a lot of Franklin's greatest lines in the first scene! Second scene: John Quincy's first lesson in political science. The kid is silently watching his dad and Dr. Franklin...and learning.
This whole series was so damned good. Fine actors, excellent production values, and a tremendous script based on a fine biography. I doubt they could do anything like this today.
The highlight for me is at 7:37 when JA says, "I will not voluntarily put on the chains of France while I am struggling to throw off those of Great Britain!"
I don't know that yelling that in the middle of a French court- very shortly after they've just given your nascent country an allied navy, no less- was a particularly clever thing to do. And a number of the constituents in the U.S. felt similarly, apparently, which is why Adams was sent back shortly thereafter. Which isn't to say that the trip to Europe was a complete waste- he was still able to procure a loan from the Dutch that gave the U.S. funds desperately needed. But Adams in France was the proverbial bull in a china shop.
Adams (and separately, Hamilton) was correct in the opinion that France was no true ally of American Independence or liberty. France aided us simply to get back at their oldest and greatest enemies, the British.
So what? The US was not interested in France's victory over Britain or their troubled colonies either, so it was an alliance of mutual interest. You're acting like the Americans gave a shit about the French but the French did not give a shit about the Americans.
France funded the revolution with the expectation that the US would join with them. That wasn't the case. America wanted independence from England, and had agreed to pay France back for the support in the future. But France was all like "No, give us your loyalty and money NOW." So we fucked them both up then paid back France in a passive aggressive manner.
John Adams was an interesting man. A good man, but one whose virtues were balanced by his faults. He took no crap, and had a lot of courage. But he was impatient, stubborn, vain and pompous, and didn't know when to quit. Much like myself, he just wanted the job done, and didn't care for the nuance.
That "grampa" was accomplishing more in France with his easygoing manner, than all of John Adams' blustering. It was in the Netherlands with their business culture where Adams was more comfortable.
John Adams is a great example of what Bruce Lee illustrates of true significance to martial arts in an interview. "To me, ultimately, martial arts means honestly expressing yourself. Now, it is very difficult to do. It has always been very easy for me to put on a show and be cocky, and be flooded with a cocky feeling and feel pretty cool and all that. I can make all kinds of phoney things. Blinded by it. Or I can show some really fancy movement. But to experience oneself honestly, not lying to oneself, and to express myself honestly, now that, my friend, is very hard to do."
Bruce Lee's talking about honesty in physical movement. Honesty in movement is about understanding your own body, which requires practice, observation and calmness, hence marital ART. It is not blunt honesty in words. Mr. Adams expresses himself clearly and honestly, but not artfully. Don't get confused.
Yes. And that's something that Americans should work on. Most of Americans simply don't have any idea how their country is perceived abroad, and this loudness and rudeness are exactly what undermines the American image.
Rudeness is relative. While yes, it is wise to learn and practice customs of a culture you are present in to harbor good will for your cause and your image, one can not capitulate personal identity or previously said cause to be "agreeable" in the eyes of that culture. I always hear how Americans act overseas, but whenever I talk to an immigrant or visitor to the states, they are surprised and ecstatic on how friendly we are, and how warmly we receive them. Perhaps Eorope needs to look in the mirror before passing judgement.
John Adams was the true anchor of our Independence. Not liked as well as some others but the greatest force in influencing all the principals in our fight for Independence.
Of course they were slightly Americanized British accents, hinting at the linguistic changes that were beginning in their generation. Note that the British accent of Jefferson seemed to have a slight southern drawl to it. Great acting.
Ben Franklin was a brilliant statesman, men like Adams and Jefferson were brilliant philosophers. We need both, but when it comes to getting things done I listen to the statesman.
The thing about Franklin was, he was a brilliant statesman, and a brilliant philosopher, and a brilliant businessman, a brilliant scientist who did Nobel quality research in Physics and Oceanography, and a brilliant inventor. He personified the concept of a renaissance man.
@@odysseusrex5908I wholeheartedly agree if the Nobel was around in his day, Ben Franklin would’ve gotten it for science many times over and the Peace Prize for either negotiating the treaty of Paris or helping craft the Constitution
I really hope and wish that everyone could have a figure like Franklin in their lives. Someone who is measured in personality and knowledgeable in how the world really works. He really is presented as a wonderful mentor to Adams here.
Your comment that "American history pulls out a highlighter and only goes over the positive points".....is total bull. You couldn't name one historian or biographer who does such a thing. Besides, this is a mini-series about the life of John Adams. Ben Franklin's opinion of German immigration is utterly irrelevant to the story.
Indeed, Mr. Franklin was caustic in the movement to free the colonies [from] King George's tyranny. It could be said that no greater man lived or contributed more to this union. However, were it not for Adams, our independence would have not been achieved. Were it not for his arrogance, egocentric, and [pompous] commitment, we’d still be under England’s rule. God bless John Adams, and thank you sir, for your stalwart decisiveness to free these colonies from an [over-bearing] and illegal rule!
In light of certain recent events in our nation, and the way people have responded to those events, I can't help but admire the sage wisdom of the part about "thinking aloud is a habit responsible or much of mankind's misery." A philosophy I myself have come to live by is that once you realize you have dug a hole for yourself, the first step toward getting out of that hole is not to keep digging-its to drop the shovel.
guyfroml not to open a whole different can of worms, but its worth noting how the character or Franklin here says "politics is the art of the possible" and openly admits to having "no opinion" until he "learns what my opinion may be." Part of what I loved about the movie Lincoln was how it reflected that part of what made one of the greatest president's in our nation's history so effective was that he was game player like any other-and he played the game very well. I think a big problem is that today we have people who, like the naive Mr Adams in this scene, think they are above the game because they stand on "principle" and "say what they mean."
That could be true. But I've never faulted anyone for standing on principle, even if it makes them feel they are "above the game" as you put it. From time to time, I like and appreciate someone like that - but, that does not relieve them of the consequences of pissing other off - and sometimes that is precisely the intent of the speaker who speaks his mind based on principle. But, it is an unfortunate requirement that to be in politics one must adhere to the wisdom of Friedrich Nietzsche when he said "a man who wishes not to die of thirst must learn to drink from any cup, a man who wishes to remain clean among men must learn to bathe in dirty water." I can't help but think Nietzsche was thinking about the honorable, principled man in politics when he said that.
These are true gentlemen like discussions in the comment session when prompted by the confrontation of two real gentlemen. So nice to not see a flame war.
Think of being in a Van full of fish. After a day of sitting in it, you don't notice the smell. I think smell in those days were much in the same. If you stank, you must have been rolling in shit or worked for weeks without washing. They took baths at this time, it just wasn't as often as you and I.
Nah, perfumes were quite popular at the time for people who could afford them, precisely because they didn't want to be thought of as smelling bad, even when they hadn't bathed for quite a while.
Both of these are great men, but I would say from my standpoint of today I'd much rather have John Adams than a Benjamin Franklin. Most politicians today are like Benjamin Franklin, smooth don't say what they mean, and do and say what only keeps them in higher power good graces. John Adams today would be very straightforward not take any BS and just call it like it is
You must remember that an “American” accent was moreorless a South West English “Country” accent. It’s a very accurate point in the series and the Filmakers need to be congratulated for it.
I feel like politicians have been very stupid of late, compared to the way they were according to this movie. If politicians were as thoughtful today as then, the world would be a much much better place
I'll agree with that! What would justify our subjective views of the foolish left would be if we held those on the right accountable as well. I'd say many conservative voices, politicians, and my fellow subscribers of conservativism should watch this as well. Perhaps even read into it a bit. That is a rediculous notion though, you and i both know. Things such things as knowledge, understanding, logic, intelligent debate etc.. seem to be absent in the political arena and have been for some time.
Oh no no, watch the entire miniseries. Franklin becomes a very prominent figure throughout. It is Alexander Hamilton who gets character assassinated later on, lol.
The art of politics is appeasement. A great personality goes a long way. Lincoln had it, Reagan had it, Clinton had it, and several other presidents were able to coax their enemies into submission with jokes, smiles and firm handshakes. Obama is a great orator, but I'm still undecided as to his abilities to negotiate. He has confidence, yes, but he might be lacking trust. Slick Willy could lie to your face and believe he'd get away with it, and even when he 'was' caught, we pardoned him. ;)
I like how they portrayed them with English accents - I'm guessing that often gets overlooked. People tend to forget that the American Revolution was also a transatlantic British civil war.
The First War of Secession
Giamatti is using a mid-Atlantic accent, he still pronounces his 'er's like an American.
@@Magooch86 Sorry, but Adam's was born and raised in America, not England so Giamatti 's performance was actually spot on.
@@seanwieland9763if the left wing nutjobs keep it up won't be the last
It was one of the few revolutions that didn't result in unadulterated bloodshed between those trying to craft a new government and their constituents. France, Russia, and others all failed in this regard and suffered greatly for it.
"Do you not believe in saying what you think?"
*Ben Franklin vigorously shakes head* "No, I'm very much against it" LOL
❤hello
@@jessica3676no
One of the best portrayals of Ben Franklin I've ever seen. Bravo!
Here, here!
Tom Wilkinson is a treasure…an under appreciated one. He has knocked everything out of the park that I’ve seen him in…from Franklin to Joe Kennedy, Sr, to General Fromm in Valkyrie.
And Paul Giamatti is the best pure actor of my generation…period.
"Thinking aloud is a habit responsible for much of mankind's misery." And, "perfectly acceptable to insult someone in private, and sometimes they might even thank you for it afterwards." True words of wisdom many could learn from. No one knows for certain if Franklin actually said these words, but it certainly sounds like something he would say.
Actually words to live by. As much as it may gall your personal pride, sometimes it really is better to just keep your mouth shut.
Daniel Ryan Yes, in today's world "just keep your mouth shut" is the way it would be said. Franklin was more eloquent.
guyfroml I'm pretty sure it was said like that back then too. Franklin just grasped that people were more inclined to listen when you put it more gently.
Unfortunately, silence and politics don’t normally go together. People tend to confuse politics and diplomacy. Hence while the good doctor franklin didn’t become president. Not to say he wasn’t an extremely talented and insightful intellect.
sounds like they scooped it straight from a genuine Farmers Almanac, wouldnt be surprised
Franklin was in my opinion, the greatest American politician. He was sensitive, objective and realistic. He understood the British and respected his lineage, but he also had vision and calculated thought on his side. A great man.
He didn't even want to secede from Britain in the beginning, but later became dedicated to the cause.
Sadly, one comes along only occasionally. IMO, Obama was another Franklin but against much greater odds.
@@MusicAsWeMakeIt😂 Obama and Franklin in the same sentence? Any of the last 40 years for thar matter in comparison has begotten a single politician worthy of carrying his bed pan
@@MusicAsWeMakeIt Truman was another that comes to mind, but he didn't possess Franklin's "larger than life" character; additionally, he was as well-educated, but he was a well-rounded and realistic politician.
@@juanf5391 All truman did was drop the nukes, sign the peace papers and get booted
This scene is precisely why Adams was reviled by many whilst Franklin was adored. Because Adams had the balls to say what he believed and stick by it.
Good for a political speech or closing defence argument in court. Terrible in both government and diplomacy.
Adams was self-indulgent- like America today. Franklin was wise and effective.
@@erniebanks2437Ben was also very much indulgent in other ways which is why many of his family hated him. And I am not talking about his son (the one with the kite) who chose the British and left for English. Franklin was very human, complicated man. Fortunately for the U.S., he was an excellent politician who loved the U.S. I respect his contributions to America but I do not like him as a person. I recommend that you look at his own writings and deeper into history - don’t take my word for it. 😉
RIP Tom Wilkinson.
I haven't seen the Adams story but he should have listened to Franklin. Franklin was the first international celebrity. He was a sensation because he was himself, brilliant, witty, and flirtatious. People could not get over how simply he dressed. His fur hat became all the rage eventually finding its way to the head of Catherine the Great of Russia. This clip alludes to Franklin's popularity by showing him being immortalized by the great Houdon, who also did a portrait of George Washington wearing a topless toga.
Wow! Cornwallis disguised as Ben' Franklin!
Sergeant Roland Genius plot
Lol
Sergeant Camacho Damn that man!
Historically, they actually were the same person.
I'm late but he perhaps was a very good user of espionage.
Dr Franklin is my favorite historical figure. If I were ever to get a hold of a time machine, I would love to have some very long conversations with him.
Assuming he would want any conversation at all with you, of course.
A wise person once said, never meet your hero's, they'll only dissapoint you.
"Fish and guests stink after three days" LOL.
Not if you salt them down
If I were an actor I would be terrified to even share the screen with Tom Wilkenson. He makes even good actors look out of their depth.
Tom Wilkinson playing real life characters Ben Franklin, General Fromm, Joe Kennedy, a great variety. RIP man you were good in everything you did.
goddamm, I do not know which of these two I adore more.
Not many people know this, but Ben Franklin invented breakdancing.
Ben meets John Quincy. John Quincy knew Ben Franklin, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, and also knew Abraham Lincoln. Gerald Ford knew LOTS of people...starting with Harry Truman.....and then also knew George W Bush.....
This is how' you'll execute an argument.
You have to admire Ben Franklin for not attempting some lame comb-over to cover his bald spot. This in an era when men wearing wigs was common.
@Mike Daneau...you are right. Of our first 5 presidents John Adams was the only one not re-elected to a 2nd term. From what I've read he was a difficult man much of the time. I believe the actor playing Adams gives a fairly accurate portrayal.
at 7:30 john adams lays down the law to old ben and hes 100% correct.....john adams americas first badass
One of my favorite films.
McCullough's book is a popular history, and does overdramatize John Adams' life. So if you want to judge a character's true worth, read their writings and letters. Never rely on a popular history or a miniseries to make a proper judgment. However I respect McCullough for bringing attention to these people and taking them off their pedestals. We often regard the founding fathers as like gods or perfect men, and we forget that like many, they had faults and weren't just loved by all they knew.
"I will not volunteerily throw on the chains of france while i struggle to remove those of great britain!" what a great scene john was wise beyond his time and someone who deserves more recognition then he got.
The movie is almost word-for-word of the book. It's extremely historically accurate. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.
I need Franklin whenever I'm about to do something stupid.
Brilliant minds ...
Watching this scene, I suddenly became aware of something: Ben never wore a wig. Why not?
And yet, despite everything, Team USA got what it needed from France; money, troops, powder & shot, even a fleet of French warships at the Battle of Yorktown. The French got...their own Revolution. And Napoleon. Oh, well; you can't win 'em all. 😜
The French got a distracted and split British military. That was their MO for backing the colonists, after all. The problem was they were worried about their enemy abroad they ignored the one at home.
Napoleon was awesome though
@@johnsabin1235 Tell that to the Egyptians. 🤦♀️
@@crazyman8472 Look at Egypt now though, not faring much better on its own either. Good Conquerors make things better and for the most part he did as long as you weren’t fighting him. If history has taught me anything it’s that the people of the sand either respect a firm hand or no hand at all.
Lawyer vs. diplomat
John Adam's and John Quincy Adams both future US presidents.
John Adams FTW
You See the Paul's are NOT sell-outs they are pragmatists doing the best thing for liberty
I acknowledge Paul G's body of work, but William Daniel's Adams seems more accurate; bold, pushy, confident and self-absorbed.
Nonetheless, I look forward to seeing the whole series someday.
Franklin looks like the penguin from that olde Batman movie.
Looks as though if one struck Adams' flint enough times, eventually his mild mannered demeanor would burst into a heated fire
our founding fathers.
It's a shame that people are letting McCullough's book sour them on Jefferson and Franklin. McCullough's work ventures into hagiography of Adams and demonizes pretty much everyone Adams ever had a conflict with (which is a long and distinguished list that includes the likes of Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, and Hamilton).
In truth, Adams was a vain, stubborn, pompous individual who was rightfully ignored as a failure for two centuries before being glorified by McCullough's revisionism.
@CARDUELIS999 Errr... yeah they did. American accents didn't really exist in their present form until the late 19th century.
Woot my alumni Benjamin Rush!
I freaking love Ben Franklin.
Mr. Franklin simply went native when he got to France. If not for John Adams getting him back on course while he was there, Mr. Franklin would have been just a footnote in History.
Franklin was already famous all across Europe. He was the man that tamed lightning! That was the idea behind sending the two of them; Franklin's reputation gets you invited to meetings with important people, Adams then negotiates with them.
I think you are a little biased, Franklin was a great man in his own right and in my opinion did more for the republic thru his diplomacy that most presidents
@@2000Betelgeuse Franklin was great, and understood diplomacy, but i tend to agree more with John Adams decisions. Ben Franklin understood how the world was, John Adams understood the way it should be. Franklin's approach was that the status quo works, Adams was that the status quo is what got us into the situation in the first place and that the truth and honesty was, however ugly, required to set us free. I do admire both, they were very smart individuals.
Amen...with all of the stresses and strains that they had on them - not only founding a new nation mind you but having death ON SIGHT over their heads - I'm suprised they didnt get into MORE fights
-response to thedemoboy
Im a straight-edge tyvm. The only mushrooms I consume are at the Chinese buffet :P
The moment you mentioned Third Positionist I realized I was wasting my time.
Hmmm... The thing about the insult is a good thing to remember.
Ben Franklin was such a psycho. but a polite one nonetheless
@Falcon988 I think he wasn't suited for it in times of peace. I think that in this time of Revolution he was perfect. He was completely right in showing people how ridiculous it was to stay under the rule of an oppressive government.
Yep forgot my bad.
In truth '? You know truth? Than you know each of their hearts as does God. No sir, in truth, God reads hearts, and I suspect that John Adams disguised his pride to God and his fellow men more poorly than the others you so esteem.
So Franklin's advice is basically "talk less, smile more"
Probably good advice for politics
@@xChemistryFTWx For politics, and nothing else
@@LovesHighGround ... politics are applied locally. Diplomacy is applied internationally. And "Speak softly but carry a big stick" is diplomacy.
@@infonut Not sure we're on the same page. But sure. What do you suppose Trust Buster Teddy meant by carry a big stick? Not backing down maybe? Representing ruggedness and strength for the American people? If only we had more Teddy's today.
@@infonut"Diplomacy" is saying "nice doggy" while feeling around behind you for a stick.
Ben was right about not speaking your mind. I remember reading that one of the worst things a president can do is say what he plans to do. As soon as he does, half the country will immediately turn against it even if it's in their best interests to support him.
“Santino, never let anyone outside the family know what you are thinking.”
…good point
Then you have #44
I love the Ben Franklin in this movie as well. He was not just a smart fat guy flying a kite. He was a leader and a revolutionary, someone people came to for advice.
brilliant acting by both actors, brilliant series, bravo HBO, loved it, every minute of it.
+mic of orion True maybe the best thing I 've ever seen on television,if all of history was taught this way maybe more people would pay attention to it. Maybe we don't need history teachers anymore.
Dale Peto we need history teachers, as history is a good teacher,
You don't know much about Philadelphia, do you?
Philadelphia has a majority black population, as the whole East coast.
Claude Worthington So have I and learned alot and have a greater appreciation for what these people did and went through.God bless America!
Awesome, how they work in a lot of Franklin's greatest lines in the first scene!
Second scene: John Quincy's first lesson in political science. The kid is silently watching his dad and Dr. Franklin...and learning.
So true!! Learning from both great men lessons that would benefit his future career, and our country.
I love the fact that the same guy who plays Ben Franklyn is the one who played the British general in The Patriot
Lord Cornwallis.
Tom Wilkinson is also Joseph Francis Kennedy in The Kennedys starring Katie Holmes, Barry Pepper and Greg Kinnear
If this had been a theatrical movie, it would have swept the Oscars
Nope. It lacks blacks.
Yes, 11 years later you get a reply. Aren't you lucky? If you are still alive, that is.
Well I may as well join in, the algorithm occasionally turns up lost treasure that has been buried for decades...
@@TransoceanicOutreach Bros yapping nonsense 😂😂💀💀
@@TransoceanicOutreach Even in a good thread, there's gotta be the racists crawling out of the woodwork.
Let's all agree that Tom Wilkinson was a most excellent choice to play Ben Franklin. From everything I've read, nails him to a T.
you can't fool me that is lord cornwallis
This whole series was so damned good. Fine actors, excellent production values, and a tremendous script based on a fine biography. I doubt they could do anything like this today.
agreed
My son, John Quincy, future president
Ben Franklin only talks in famous quotes... delight... simply delight!
"No more pain, no more *slime.* "
@@analogmozNO MORE BIG FUCKING SHOES
The highlight for me is at 7:37 when JA says, "I will not voluntarily put on the chains of France while I am struggling to throw off those of Great Britain!"
I don't know that yelling that in the middle of a French court- very shortly after they've just given your nascent country an allied navy, no less- was a particularly clever thing to do. And a number of the constituents in the U.S. felt similarly, apparently, which is why Adams was sent back shortly thereafter.
Which isn't to say that the trip to Europe was a complete waste- he was still able to procure a loan from the Dutch that gave the U.S. funds desperately needed. But Adams in France was the proverbial bull in a china shop.
Adams (and separately, Hamilton) was correct in the opinion that France was no true ally of American Independence or liberty. France aided us simply to get back at their oldest and greatest enemies, the British.
So what? The US was not interested in France's victory over Britain or their troubled colonies either, so it was an alliance of mutual interest.
You're acting like the Americans gave a shit about the French but the French did not give a shit about the Americans.
France funded the revolution with the expectation that the US would join with them. That wasn't the case. America wanted independence from England, and had agreed to pay France back for the support in the future. But France was all like "No, give us your loyalty and money NOW." So we fucked them both up then paid back France in a passive aggressive manner.
@@connorvaughn7968 u should be a teacher, very good
Don't forget Marquis de Lafayette! He helped a lot too! :]
Joining the Continental Army as a major general at the ripe old age of nineteen.
@@odysseusrex5908
We needed all the help we could get.
I noticed how fluent Benjamin Franklin was in English, French and Latin. He spoke Spanish and about three other languages.
He was very well rounded from everything I've read. And he only went to school thru 3rd grade I believe.
He was very well rounded from everything I've read. And he only went to school thru 3rd grade I believe.
John Adams was an interesting man. A good man, but one whose virtues were balanced by his faults. He took no crap, and had a lot of courage. But he was impatient, stubborn, vain and pompous, and didn't know when to quit. Much like myself, he just wanted the job done, and didn't care for the nuance.
+Fubar AlAkbar But how was he vain?
he wasn't pompous either, he wanted to get shit done, whereas Franklin was like that one grampa you know who just let's things role by
That "grampa" was accomplishing more in France with his easygoing manner, than all of John Adams' blustering. It was in the Netherlands with their business culture where Adams was more comfortable.
You had me until you turned that into a humble brag.
Well, I'm certainly not trying to give myself the caliber of Adams...far from it!
I'm only saying that I can relate to his approach.
"Thinking aloud is a habit responsible for much of mankind's misery." -Ben Franklin (words of wisdon, everyone: keep your mouth shut!)
John Adams is a great example of what Bruce Lee illustrates of true significance to martial arts in an interview.
"To me, ultimately, martial arts means honestly expressing yourself. Now, it is very difficult to do. It has always been very easy for me to put on a show and be cocky, and be flooded with a cocky feeling and feel pretty cool and all that. I can make all kinds of phoney things. Blinded by it. Or I can show some really fancy movement. But to experience oneself honestly, not lying to oneself, and to express myself honestly, now that, my friend, is very hard to do."
Bruce Lee's talking about honesty in physical movement. Honesty in movement is about understanding your own body, which requires practice, observation and calmness, hence marital ART. It is not blunt honesty in words. Mr. Adams expresses himself clearly and honestly, but not artfully. Don't get confused.
Gumball’s Relative oh dear... He didn't even fight or spar. With all due respect what the fuck did Lee know about fighting ?
He also said to be fluid like Water. Lee was also an arrogant asshole.
With much respect for John Adams, a small joke: At 7:37, we see the first American being loud and rude while travelling abroad ;-)
Yes. And that's something that Americans should work on. Most of Americans simply don't have any idea how their country is perceived abroad, and this loudness and rudeness are exactly what undermines the American image.
The first but not the last.
Rudeness is relative. While yes, it is wise to learn and practice customs of a culture you are present in to harbor good will for your cause and your image, one can not capitulate personal identity or previously said cause to be "agreeable" in the eyes of that culture. I always hear how Americans act overseas, but whenever I talk to an immigrant or visitor to the states, they are surprised and ecstatic on how friendly we are, and how warmly we receive them. Perhaps Eorope needs to look in the mirror before passing judgement.
and a french waiter was watching off camera, ready to give it back over generations
Clearly IronMan93 hasn't met any Americans.
"Politics is the art of the possible."
-- Bismarck
John Adams was the true anchor of our Independence. Not liked as well as some others but the greatest force in influencing all the principals in our fight for Independence.
Really was a fantastic series, one of the best I’ve seen
Direct insult then the petulant whine... A winning combination.
adams was a brillants statesman.. but franklin was a brillant strategist... and one of our lobbyist.
Of course they were slightly Americanized British accents, hinting at the linguistic changes that were beginning in their generation. Note that the British accent of Jefferson seemed to have a slight southern drawl to it. Great acting.
Ben Franklin was a brilliant statesman, men like Adams and Jefferson were brilliant philosophers. We need both, but when it comes to getting things done I listen to the statesman.
The thing about Franklin was, he was a brilliant statesman, and a brilliant philosopher, and a brilliant businessman, a brilliant scientist who did Nobel quality research in Physics and Oceanography, and a brilliant inventor. He personified the concept of a renaissance man.
@@odysseusrex5908I wholeheartedly agree if the Nobel was around in his day, Ben Franklin would’ve gotten it for science many times over and the Peace Prize for either negotiating the treaty of Paris or helping craft the Constitution
@@joeszymaszek1146 Of course, he did win the Copley Medal, which is still awarded today, and was of comparable prestige to the Nobel in those days.
I really hope and wish that everyone could have a figure like Franklin in their lives. Someone who is measured in personality and knowledgeable in how the world really works. He really is presented as a wonderful mentor to Adams here.
If only John Adams had taken Franklin's advice! He likely would have won a 2nd term as President.
Your comment that "American history pulls out a highlighter and only goes over the positive points".....is total bull. You couldn't name one historian or biographer who does such a thing. Besides, this is a mini-series about the life of John Adams. Ben Franklin's opinion of German immigration is utterly irrelevant to the story.
I would soooo KICK HIS ASS!
"Fish and guests stink after three days." Haha...
Indeed, Mr. Franklin was caustic in the movement to free the colonies [from] King George's tyranny. It could be said that no greater man lived or contributed more to this union. However, were it not for Adams, our independence would have not been achieved. Were it not for his arrogance, egocentric, and [pompous] commitment, we’d still be under England’s rule. God bless John Adams, and thank you sir, for your stalwart decisiveness to free these colonies from an [over-bearing] and illegal rule!
UN Owen it wasn't illegal rule and the English would've given them independence at some point anyway.
go home /pol/ you're drunk
It appears my "drunk" comments drew applause. What have you, Crit?"
UN Owen It's things like the Revolution that prove God exists. He had the right people in the right place at the right time
Didn't help that Franklin was a double agent the whole time didn't help. Every time he sailed to France, he would relay information to the British.
Two legendary actors portraying two legendary historical figures. Epic!
Tom Wilkinson is brilliant as Ben Franklin.
Wilkinson won an Emmy and Golden Globe for the role.
4:04 you gotta wonder if anyone realized that two future Presidents were standing side by side in the presence of yet another American Legend!
And to think quincy lived to be photographed a couple times too
In light of certain recent events in our nation, and the way people have responded to those events, I can't help but admire the sage wisdom of the part about "thinking aloud is a habit responsible or much of mankind's misery." A philosophy I myself have come to live by is that once you realize you have dug a hole for yourself, the first step toward getting out of that hole is not to keep digging-its to drop the shovel.
Daniel, that is wise advice that many in Washington could make good use...particularly in the White House.
guyfroml not to open a whole different can of worms, but its worth noting how the character or Franklin here says "politics is the art of the possible" and openly admits to having "no opinion" until he "learns what my opinion may be." Part of what I loved about the movie Lincoln was how it reflected that part of what made one of the greatest president's in our nation's history so effective was that he was game player like any other-and he played the game very well. I think a big problem is that today we have people who, like the naive Mr Adams in this scene, think they are above the game because they stand on "principle" and "say what they mean."
That could be true. But I've never faulted anyone for standing on principle, even if it makes them feel they are "above the game" as you put it. From time to time, I like and appreciate someone like that - but, that does not relieve them of the consequences of pissing other off - and sometimes that is precisely the intent of the speaker who speaks his mind based on principle.
But, it is an unfortunate requirement that to be in politics one must adhere to the wisdom of Friedrich Nietzsche when he said "a man who wishes not to die of thirst must learn to drink from any cup, a man who wishes to remain clean among men must learn to bathe in dirty water." I can't help but think Nietzsche was thinking about the honorable, principled man in politics when he said that.
guyfroml Note Franklin's other quote, "What did you gain by opposing the motion? All you did was make enemies-and make yourself feel better."
+Daniel Ryan
Don Corleone could not have said it better.
These are true gentlemen like discussions in the comment session when prompted by the confrontation of two real gentlemen. So nice to not see a flame war.
You gotta love Ben Franklin!....
The only problem with that analysis is Ben Franklin wasn’t from New England.
"Fish and Guests Stink after 3 days in Philadelphia." I thought in those days, less bathing, no deodorant, stinking was a badge of honor.
Think of being in a Van full of fish. After a day of sitting in it, you don't notice the smell. I think smell in those days were much in the same. If you stank, you must have been rolling in shit or worked for weeks without washing. They took baths at this time, it just wasn't as often as you and I.
ethanike In other words, they didn't really notice that they smelled bad unless they smelled even worse than the average person.
Nah, perfumes were quite popular at the time for people who could afford them, precisely because they didn't want to be thought of as smelling bad, even when they hadn't bathed for quite a while.
This Ben Franklin would be a real pain to be around with all of his political correctness standards.
That's about how Ben was.
+Ä. R S. Knew him, did you? Did he give you the pox?
@@andiroidYT Ol' Ben is still around. There are impersonators in Philadelphia that can be hired for events.
Both of these are great men, but I would say from my standpoint of today I'd much rather have John Adams than a Benjamin Franklin. Most politicians today are like Benjamin Franklin, smooth don't say what they mean, and do and say what only keeps them in higher power good graces. John Adams today would be very straightforward not take any BS and just call it like it is
franklin sounds like a natural diplomat
You must remember that an “American” accent was moreorless a South West English “Country” accent.
It’s a very accurate point in the series and the Filmakers need to be congratulated for it.
I feel like politicians have been very stupid of late, compared to the way they were according to this movie. If politicians were as thoughtful today as then, the world would be a much much better place
"je veux parler avec mon amie" ---> "i want to speak with my friend!" =)
John Quincy Adams? Wasn't there a president by that name?
I'll agree with that! What would justify our subjective views of the foolish left would be if we held those on the right accountable as well. I'd say many conservative voices, politicians, and my fellow subscribers of conservativism should watch this as well. Perhaps even read into it a bit.
That is a rediculous notion though, you and i both know. Things such things as knowledge, understanding, logic, intelligent debate etc.. seem to be absent in the political arena and have been for some time.
Oh no no, watch the entire miniseries. Franklin becomes a very prominent figure throughout. It is Alexander Hamilton who gets character assassinated later on, lol.
The same guy has played Cornwallis AND Franklin.
And Joe Kennedy
Mickey Bitsko Really? Sarcasm
When you Have to say something insensitive, it is Best to do so privately.
Joooohn AAdaaams mooovieeee here => twitter.com/481f63069c6302d44/status/822762663558062080 Joohn Adams vs Ben Franklin
The art of politics is appeasement. A great personality goes a long way. Lincoln had it, Reagan had it, Clinton had it, and several other presidents were able to coax their enemies into submission with jokes, smiles and firm handshakes. Obama is a great orator, but I'm still undecided as to his abilities to negotiate. He has confidence, yes, but he might be lacking trust. Slick Willy could lie to your face and believe he'd get away with it, and even when he 'was' caught, we pardoned him. ;)
2:00 "I feel myself hated." "You are a guest in Virginia. Guests and fish stink after 3 days." LMAO!!
“a guest in •Philadelphia•”
They weren’t in Virginia, of course.