So... to be totally honest, My Model 94 was the first deer rifle I ever owned. It belonged to my father who died just before my 3rd birthday. My mother saved it for me and gave it to me when I returned home from the U.S. Marines. It's the one possession I own that was his. For that reason alone, the 30-30 is my favorite cartridge.
Great story. If you have hunting in your family genes, you probably have a story like that. I know I do. The point is that we sometimes confuse our “favorite” hunting round with the “best” hunting round.
Nostalgia and family ties will do this. Hey if it works and it has a story behind it who cares if another gun or cartridge comes along that is slightly better on paper? It wont change the fact that it's your favorite!
When it comes to the 30-30 ballistics and performance past 100 yards... I have used a 30-30 since 1977.... With it I have shot exactly 1 deer at or just over 100 yards. The rest have definitely been under 75 yards and most of those under 50. Those are the distances and performance that matter to most 30-30 users, IMO.
Seems like state defendant.. here in Ohio, yea. Cause you can actually hunt with it, unlike decades past when you could only use shotguns & muzzleloader
Not so much in Canada. Right now 30 30 is scarce as well, but normally it is carried by local stores. The 350 is likely real good, but 3030 works and it is what I own.
I love the 30 wcf. I killed two bull moose in Alaska. I live there from 87 till 2004. It worked fine. The native people that I was very close friends with use the 3030 for everything.
yep thats one reason why I went with it. Its the only cartridge that walmart sells that can go in an AR. Before they banned all other pistol and AR rounds, walmart had the cheapest ammo and its close. I suppose its not necessarily a bad thing though, because it helped out the local gun stores and online retailers. Ammo prices are still pretty high anyways so online is usually the way to go
Walmart in Washington state ruled by a king rather than a governor, quit selling anything firearm related. Due to the pressure by the damn democrats ruling this state. We are screwed so many ways.
Disappointed that everyone has seemed to have forgotten my all time favorite lever-action round the 375 Winchester! The smokeless version of the venerable 38-55. The ORIGINAL straight walled lever-action cartridge. Thank you for including it in your show. 21:36
Love my Winnie in .375. It's about the perfect open-sight cartridge for me. I don't want to shoot open sights as far as Elmer Keith did. Mine, bought used for a song, took the orange dot out at 65 yards with the first shot. I was pleased.
@@gman77gas What an insightful and knowledgeable comment. I learned so much from it, that I don't think my life will ever be the same. It's like I've seen God.
I am a 41 mag fan, and many years ago I played around with making a “companion” cartridge for my 41 mag Black Hawk by straight walling the 30-30 case to .410 and it worked nicely. JDJ has a wildcat like that it would be interesting to see.
First year using the 350 here in Michigan and it has worked flawlessly in a AR platform. Never had feed issues and it’s a great 200yd and in gun! Way better than a shotgun and cheaper to shoot to boot.
Way way much better than any slug shotgun for sure..even rifled barrel with sabot slugs of any kind. Also in S MI and am happy as you know what with the .350 Legend or .450 Bushmaster, own both. I enjoy the .350 better because of recoil for whitetail, this being said the Bushmaster is one heck of a heavy hitter, like the 45-70 maybe?
I also have a 300 hamr' and love it. When Bill Wilson designed the 300 hamr', he first called the ar 30-30. On one side of my dust cover, it says 300 HAMR' and on the other side it says AR 30-30....
I really appreciate that you do the numbers at maximum point blank range. Makes it so nice to compare. Also, learning about it from your videos changed the way I sight my hunting rifles in. Makes a lot of sense.
I love your channel keep up the great work Mr Spomer… I myself have owned four different 30-30s over a 20 year period and I must say it is my favorite for the east Texas woods… I have also had 270, 7mm rem mag, 308 win, and they all have a certain purpose for every application… People tend to enjoy arguing about what is best when they are all great in their own way… Thank you so much for your expertise on so many different calibers out there…
I agree that the 350 Legend in the designated legal hunting States play a great role. However I don't see the millions of lever action rifles from Marlin, Winchester, etc in 30/30 going anywhere fast anytime soon. Thanks for sharing Ron.
Henry is supposed to start making the .350 legend in lever action this May. I’ll buy one as soon as it’s out, but I’ll still have my trusty 30/30 to shoot too 😉
I think that's the problem as far as the manufacturers are concerned. They want people to buy new firearms and not just ammunition. Thus come up with a brand new caliber that is instantly a legend because it says legend in the name.
If you can legally use bottleneck ctgs where you live / hunt cool , by all means happily carry on . But for the tens of millions of hunters that previously were limited to shotguns , the demand for effective straight wall ctgs is huge , and legitimate. And for millions of shooters , primarily but not necessarily under 40 , the AR- 15 is their primary , prefered , and will be their nostalgic rifle platform .
I’ve been testing a 140gr all copper load from Bear Creek Ballistics. 2650fps and is performing fantastic! I’ve taken a couple deer with it on camera already this year and should have more before too long. Fun to see all the new loads being offered!
@@ev3dale298 .450 Bush overkill on white tail hunting which the 350 Legend was designed for, 90% of hunters will never hunt anything but white tail deer.
I took 2 deer with my sons this year with a Henry single shot in 350 legend. Dropped them both where they stood at 113 and 56 yards respectively. I was really impressed with it.
The 35 Remington has about the same powder capacity as a .308 Winchester. The 350 Legend has about the same powder capacity as the 30-30 so they are very similar in velocity trajectory and recoil, the 350 just delivers a little more energy. It works amazing on deer.
Don't forget the 450 bushmaster for the straight wall and OAL length limited hunting areas. The 450 is very popular and legal here in MI in the "limited firearm deer zone." In fact I like it so much I use it in the unlimited zones as well.
You bet! 450 BM is my go to in southern lower Michigan. I use a 98 mauser rebarreled to 450 and build my handloads around 250gr Hornady ftx bullets and Hogdon Lil gun powder. Velocities hover around 2,350 fps and make for a relatively flat shooting cartridge. I just don't see anything the 350 can do better.
I run the 350 legend in the restricted and unrestricted zones. I’ve often wondered about getting an upper receiver in 450 bushmaster just because even when ammo was harder to find, I regularly saw 450 bushmaster on the self most places.
Absolutely amazed just how CLOSE the 30-30 and 350 Legend are! I still love my old 30-30 but love the fact if I want a AR15 Platform 30-30 I definitely know where to find one! Thanks Ron you never disappoint in bringing information to table.
comparing 170gr in both calibers, the ballistics are identical. Even with the 150-165gr the ballistics are nearly identical. Its awesome to have a modern 30-30 in an AR platform that hits like a hammer inside of 250 yards
Great review Ron! I could have gone either way, 30-30 or 350 Legend, but went with the Legend due to the lack of 30-30's in my area, as well as the cost, appreciate these reviews. Cheers
One thing I like about the legend is the soft recoil allowing for rapid shots on target in an msr platform. Couple that with standard capacity mags and you have a great home defense rifle that doubles as a great hunting rifle.
Exactly! That's why I bought mine not to mention a simple barrel swap in the ar platform makes is so versatile I can shoot .22 and .223/5.56 if I wanted one lower several different options to shoot
Exactly! That's why I bought mine not to mention a simple barrel swap in the ar platform makes is so versatile I can shoot .22 and .223/5.56 if I wanted one lower several different options to shoot
I appreciate the wealth for detail and knowledge that Ron has. But above all, I like how he can relate the cartridge to the environment. Afterwall, if your white tail hunts are in wooded environments with no clear lanes over 200 yards, then the .30-30 is great. Plus using a lever action sometimes just feels cool.
The first center fire rifle I shot, was my mothers Marlin 30-30, which still stacks up for a pretty good deer woods gun! The 350 Legend is a really nice round, for the states with those kind of restrictions. I have friends that have tried the 350 Legend, in an AR platform, and love it!! Thanks again Ron, for bringing useful information to the table, once again!!
Thanks Ron. Big fan of both ! I do a lot of whitetail hunting in straight walled cartridge states the last 4yrs. .350 Legend is what I hunt with now when I can't legally hunt with the lever gun!
I'm going to be looking out for 350 legend in the henry long ranger lever action rifle. They already have a 223/556 and this seems like a likely transition to the hunting community in straight wall zones. Love your work buddy God bless you and your family.
Although it doesn’t look traditional, I’d say look up the fightlight herring. Before anyone scoffs and tells me that one ought to just get an AR-15, we have to consider that people like running lever actions and that people in places like PA can’t hunt with their AR-15’s (without certain mods) so, the herring at least provides an option. What is worth noting too, is that you can use an 1100 stock to give yourself the wood aesthetic.
@@brettbaker5599 When the .350 Legend first came out, I contacted Henry to see if they were going to offer one in lever action. Now I understand why they're not going to. Good video.
here in iowa we are a straight wall state, 45-70 and 444 marlin and 450 marlin are allowed even though they exceed the case length also 450 bushmaster is also popular here as well. i have used 45-70 and currently use 350 legend in a bolt gun and ar platform, thanks for the video, have a great holiday season
I’m an old former Iowan from the shotgun only days. I could still go back and hunt with my relatives on their farms in northwest Iowa but the cost vs the chance of drawing a tag seems high to me. On the other hand Iowa has the most extensive number of what they call “straight wall” cartridges allowed. I don’t think they really even use the words straight wall. Minimum 35 caliber. I think they say .350 but I’m going from memory here. Maximum 50 caliber. Minimum 500 ft lbs published muzzle energy. These maximums and minimums apply for both rifles and hand guns. There is no maximum case length. I don’t remember if there is a minimum length. They have a list of cartridges that meet the requirements but not all that can meet the requirements. They say ask your local game warden if have questions. They specifically list 35 Whelen and several others that are definitely not straight wall cases IMHO. You’re good to go with 357 Magnum, 350 Legend, 35 Remington, 358 Winchester, 375 H&H, 44 Magnum, 444 Marlin, 45-70 Gov’t, 458 Winchester, 458 Lot, 460 Weatherby and 50 BMG. Those are all I can think of at the moment. If you want to use 30-30 Winchester, 32 Winchester Special, 243 Winchester, 25-06, 257 Weatherby Magnum, 30-06, 300 Win Mag or 300 Weatherby magnum you are SOL.😂 I can’t make this stuff up. Just go to the Iowa DNR WEBSITE to read the regs. If you want to hunt in both Iowa and Minnesota, Michigan, or Wisconsin and you can only afford one rifle, then go ahead and buy a 35 Legend, 360 Buckhammer, 400 Legend or 450 Bushmaster. Happy hunting boys and girls.
Hey Ron, nice job. Michigan hunter here. Just the southern half of the mitten is under the straight wall cartridge restriction. I have a 44 mag Ruger bolt action for this area. Several 44 mag rounds are made for rifles. Some even with pointed bullets like the Hornady. My brother bought a beautiful Henry single shot 350 legend. He has had it back to Henry 2 times now for light strikes. Not impressed with Henry, but love the 350… Mostly I hunt in the upper peninsula though and I used a Marlin 336 in 30-30 for 3 decades and many, many kills. A very effective round as long as you are not pulling 300 yard shots. Very accurate as well. When I was 17 and bought it used (1968 vintage), it clover-leafed 3 shots at 100 yards with 170 grain Remington core-locks and I never shot anything else. I just gave it to my son a couple years ago when he turned 11. He has shot 2 bucks and a doe with it already. All drt. A perfect short and maneuverable gun in a blind. I switched to a Ruger Hawkeye 6.5 CM because my new blind has several 300 yard shots, and I love light recoil. I still love picking up my old 30-30 way more than my fancy new CM. Keep up the great work.
nice to see the 7.62x39 mentioned, it is a solid cartridge in its own right. I have a CZ 527 (mini-Mauser) in it and it's a handy rifle that comes in at five and half pounds and 37 inches overall. it's short and light and I can take it through the brush better than any other rifle I have, and it uses a caliber that is very suitable for white tail. I know it is dead accurate out to three hundred yards with the sight as well (not that I'd take a shot that far, even if could get one that long), so I don't see any problem with it. that round has little to do with Russia, since they moved on to 5.45x39mm in 1974. we ought not blame calibers for deeds committed by their parent nations, that's just silly. like you always say, it's just ballistics.
I almost bought that gun and still might but the new Russian ban on ammo made it less appealing. That gun shoots steel ammo better than brass. Or at least that's how it was marketed. That really is a selling point for me as I have thousands of rounds bought years ago. At this point I kinda want to save it for my sks tho😣
@@wildweasel6898 they weren't cheap rifles before, and they go for a bit more now. They discontinued the model in 2020 or so. I'm in the market for a second one in .223. It's fun, but in 7.62x39 it has some recoil. Not painful, but it is a little startling if you aren't ready. Lot a pop and not a lot of shove is the best way I can describe it. The nice part about shooting it is not only is it cheap because the caliber, it's also relatively cheap because the slow fore rate. You really get the bang for your buck out of a 20 round box of ammunition.
About 15 years ago, I hand loaded a Hornady 180 grn ( single shot pistol bullet) in a 358 Winchester to about 2300 fps as a first deer rifle for my son… worked very well, while not recoiling heavily… I’m loving the 450 Bushmaster in a Ruger American Ranch Rifle… it will do whatever you need out to 200+ yards, and do it to bigger game…. We (in PA) have some areas that require a straight walled case or shotgun, and includes black bears… sometimes very large black bears…
I still use my Marlin .30-30 as my primary deer dispatcher after 40 years. I have several options to choose from in my gun safes but I just can’t seem to let it go , it’s perfect for me. Short barrel, compact size , reliable , and easy shooting. Why change ?
Agreed, 300 BO just doesn't have the thump that other centerfire rounds do. I have one, but haven't used it in years. I keep threatening to rebarrel the upper to a better round.
Winchester had a run of over crimped ammo that was recalled a couple years ago. It was not head spacing right and causing over pressure. There is a video about it by a gun smith rifle build here on RUclips. Eagle eye shooting
Thought of 450 bushmaster, 50 beowolf, 458 Hamr. Just as other options, but on the plus side for 350 legend, it was one of the few cartridges I saw still often available when the ammogedon was going on.
Although I no longer own a 30 30 I like it can do its job at a lower chamber pressure and they have been making bullets so long for that cartridge I found it worked excellent at the ranges I hunted while hunting in thick scrub in New Zealand.
@13:20 Hornady does a soft tip in 350 legend because it is supposed to help with expansion. Similar to why the Critical Defense in pistol calibers has a plastic insert to avoid the hollow point clogging.
Living in Michigan in the restricted zone I purchased a .350 legend Savage Axis 2 and it has become my go to gun. It loves the Winchester 180 gr PowerPoint rounds. I am get 1.5” groups at 100 yards. It took three deer this year. Two out of the three dropped where they stood. Not sure how much longer I will take the .308 up north. I will just be using the .350 all over the state. Great round out to 200 for sure. I don’t hunt anywhere that I need more yardage than that.
The 350 Legend works really well out of short barrels, on average it looses very little from 20" down to 16", straight wall + very fast burning powders = good performance out of short barrels. I'm getting a tad over 2200fps with those 165gr FTX's with Lil Gun in a 16" AR. Ron is right though trim length is hyper critical and the crimp is pretty critical too but a Lee factory crimp die is a huge help.
Gains velocity if you reload. As does every pistol ready cartridge. Manufacturers load rounds that are used in pistols and rifles to be useful in both, but tuned to neither one. EVERYTHING is a trade off. They want the pistol guys money for 357 magnum, 350 Lego, etc. Just as they do the rifle people's.
@@yewwtooob 180 grain SJHP .357 Magnum at 1450 Feet Per Second is great. 110 Grain at 1900 Feet per second is great. So is 125 Grain at 1700 FPS. .357 is Awesome. Even better..... a Glock in 9x25 Dillon. Poorly build 124 Grain bullets at 1700 FPS in a Glock 20 will give you 125 Grain SJHP performance. 70 Grain hits 2300 fps. With stick mags....you have AR power kinda.
Just before this , watched a you tube with .350 L starting out @ 25 inch , cutting back an inch at a time to 7 inches . 12 inch still giving 2150 - ish fps . Good for AR Pistols , SBR , T/C Contenders , or suppressor hosts , with pinned suppressor to make 16 inch net bbl length to not need two tax stamps .
Good video. It all really comes down to where you live. Both cartridges are great and work well within their ranges. If you have regulations for straight wall then the 350 is an excellent choice. Not to mention 30-30 ammo has become stupid expensive in the past two years.
@@t-bfr45-70 SAAMI pressure on the 45-70 is 28,000 the bushmaster 38,500 the 45-70 can be loaded above that for a modern rifle but off the shelf Ammunition is going to be loaded to that spec.
@@AverageHouseHusband that's why said can do but at this point there are enough companies out there loading it to higher pressure as well Buffalo bore, grizzly, hsm and underwood. Reason the 45-70 is so limited is for some id10t don't try putting it in a Springfield trapdoor. Really gets sad when you learn most factory ammo on the shelf is below 20,000cup. You can push 300gr to 2200fps and still be under 28,000cup.
@@t-bfr45-70 Hornady Lever Evolution gets some good numbers in 45-70, pulls ahead at long range with heavy bullets but with comparable weights your not going to see much if any advantage in 45-70 over 450BM.
@@AverageHouseHusband leverevolution don't empress me much in 45-70 405 cast boolets are usually able to be more accurate and if you keep to same weight as 45lc with your 45-70 your doing it wrong. Most 350bm loads are 300gr and lower most 45-70 are 350gr and up with the 350bm already being at the top of it's load capabilities. If I want an ar I guess 450bm be ok but I'd probably do an ar10 450 marlin KAK upper instead. Better options for bullets not to mention have more then enough 458 bullets.
.350 CVA scout 180 Winchester PP was effective for me in MI south of the line this year. A pleasant cartridge recoil wise and ammo easy to find. Handy safe rifle in the woods at a great price. I love a single shot
Ron you would probably appreciate the efficiency and surprising flat shooting of a 357 Mag lever action. From a Brian Pearce article, 19 gr Lil' Gun and a 158 gr JSP BC .16 goes 2030 fps in a 20" barrel. Buffalo Bore gets a 158 going 2150. 2.8" high at 100 is dead on at 150 and 3" low at 175. Use a bonded JSP like the Speer for 99% of shooting and you have the option of the Speer bonded JHP for longer shots where bullet has slowed down. Both bullets hit the same POI. I was already using my 357 and 45 Colt rifles for years by the time the 350 legend came out and there really isn't much gain over the 357 rifle with Underwood, Buffalo Bore or handloads with Lil' Gun powder. The 350 legend has a little more energy at 175 yards but the pointy JSP do not mushroom past 100 yards. Watch all the videos- many of the JSP don't expand at 10 yards off the muzzle and the 150 disintegrates and penetrates like a 223. For a hypothetical 175 yard shot would you rather send a bonded Gold Dot 158 through a deer at 1350 fps or a pointy, non expanding legend bullet at about 150 fps faster? Same argument against the 30-30: at 175 yards most bullets don't expand but the 357 rifle has decades of bullet technology from law enforcement use to optimize performance at 12-1400 fps. At 13-1500 fps the Legend and 30-30 act like FMJ
I've been looking for a 357 maximum rifle for years, even thought of cannibalizing another rifle for a conversion (contender barrels don't last long on the market) after I saw the article in american rifleman I said this is it! As soon as brass was available from starline I bought 1000 rounds and waited til I could buy a Savage Axis. With a little work my handloads cut the group size of the factory fodder by half and I dropped a hog so fast that he never even squealed. this is what I've wanted for 30 years and it's dirt cheap to feed. A happy camper here.
Rich There was an old fellow here abouts, that's gone now, had a H&R single shot in .357 that fell in love with the .357 Maximum. He had the barrel rechambered for the .357 Maximum and he said it was his most favorite deer rifle.
Ron, interesting video. Thanks. My state is still working on a rifle regulation. Needs to be a single shot. Actually any action will work, if the magazine is removed. Once they finally come out with their regulation, I think I'll be looking to have a highwall built. Also, I'm not a reloader but I find it interesting to hear your thoughts on the "problems " with the 350. All the best to you. Cheers, Jeff
Big fan of both. I originally bought my 350Leg because I loved shooting the 30-30 but didn't want to shoot my grandpa's Winchester 94 1000 times per year ( I wanted to keep it the way he had it when he bought it in 1950-1951. ) I also wanted to run a low power variable scope... And to me... And I may be wrong... But scopes belong on modern bolt guns, Not lever guns. Edit : when I first bought my 350, the 145gr fmj plinking ammo was $9/box of 20... That was a major selling point as well. Having a full power deer capable rifle cartridge that has a cheap plinking option, not to mention it's a 35 cal with very little recoil... What's not to love
Not scoping a lever action is a matter of perspective. Older models that needed to be tapped, I don't go for that, but newer models that are pre-tapped, I'm all for letting the enthusiast with poorer eyesight enjoy their experience just the same. I'm getting older and there's just no two ways about it... it's hard to use irons now, so I'm scoping everything that comes built to allow it.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE a lever action hunting rifle. I have several Marlin 336, including an old 1950 model WaffleTop with 24" barrel. Have to say that (even more than the Browning BLR) my favorite is the Henry Long Ranger in .308. I have called a begged for Henry to make that Long Ranger in 350 Legend. Since it is magazine fed, it just makes perfect since. Thank you for another great video with super informative details like always.
I chose to shoot 350L soley for the fact that you get 30-30 ballistics along with soft recoil, while enabling me to use my AR for hunting. I love my lever action 30-30, but living in MI, my area to hunt is limited north of the limited deer zone while the 350 will enable me to hunt state wide with no restrictions. Another pro to the 350L is ammo, ammo is easy to find and fairly inexpensive to plink and practice with. 30-30 used to be cheap to shoot and fun to plink with, but now ammo for it is not available like it was and it's not cheap anymore either. Imo, I think they could make a lever action for this caliber, especially if it's mag fed (for all varieties of ammo, tube fed will work for the round nose and ballistic tips), and designed it like the marlin but with an AR style bolt incorporated.
Fellow Michigander here. I hunt the restricted zone as well, my 350 is awesome. I got a nice buck this year, 150gr deer season shredded his lungs and dropped him. Since we can't use 30-30, I'll take my 350 over a slug gun any day
@@jonquirk9582 Congrats on the buck my friend. I've used a shotgun many of times with success, but there are times that one buck presents itself and the range is questionable with a shotgun. Not so much with the 350L and it still does fairly well in heavily wooded areas, just like the 30-30, lol.
I built my 1st ar 15 this year in 350 legend for my daughters to deer hunt with (Ohio). I love it so far. My daughters aren't afraid of the recoil which is what I was looking for.
Straight walled cartridge stretching on detonation is pretty nominal as compared to necked down cartridges. I hand load both, I check my bottle necked cartridges after three uses from the trimmed state. Most will go a couple more, straight walled brass in my pistols will go multiple reloads without needing trimming. Granted, the 350 Legend has higher pressures but keeping the brass trimmed is not going to be a problem anyway cuz if you hand load, you should have case trimming tools on hand. Go-No go gauges are highly important to bottle necked, with straight wall, dial calipers are likely sufficient.
Thank you for that info. I have dies, etc. to reload my 350 Legend but haven't started yet. I have only reloaded bottle-necked cases to date. I wasn't worried. but now I am even more confident.
@@vettelover2009 I do, indeed, have Lee dies. They have never let me down in the other cartridges I reload. I realize the 350 Legend is a different type of cartridge from my others. I am shooting a Savage Axis and have the Lee collet crimp die. That has also worked well in my other cartridges. Mostly, I have Federal brass, some Winchester. Would it be worth it to get Starline?
@@vettelover2009 Thank you for the information. Sounds solid. Is there anything I need to know about using the RCBS? All my experience is with Lee. Any differences I need to consider?
Lee collet crimping die will destroy your headspace control! Only thing useable is a taper-crimp die, like what is used for an autoloading pistol cartridge that also headspaces on the case mouth.@@wdtaut5650
Ron, I really enjoy my .30-30 and I am willing to accept it’s limitations and design flaws. I understand that there plenty of superior cartridges however they lack the nostalgia and old school mystique of a classic. The reason that so many people continue to enjoy the old cartridge is exactly because Winchester got it right the first time!
Ron I was going to say” Hey you missed the .450 Bushmaster” but I see Kylecarpenter 40 beat me to it! Great job on the other cartridge comparisons as you usually do!
My deer rifle for Ohio is ar platform in 350, more Ohio deer taken during gun week were taken with straight walled cartridges than slugs or MZL. Prior to 350 I was shooting 444 marlin in a lever gun, a shoulder thumper.
I have a 444 that I use in brush and when I know my shots would be under 200 yards. I load 300s at 1800 fps so its not super hot but its enough to kill anything in my area. Plus that load groups about an inch at 100 yards. Not as accurate as the Lever Evolution. Just curious on why you made the switch.
Already dropped a nice whitetail buck this year with my old trusty Winchester 94 in .30-30 Winchester! I hunt with it at least 4 or 5 times every year. I have never had to track a deer with that gun or round but I try my level best to do my part! The .35 Remington is often overlooked! Got one in a .336 Marlin and it just puts deer down!
Great video Ron! But there is the 35 Remington.... long chambered in lever action / tubular magazine rifles (rimless) and I'm betting those ftx bullets measure 0.357" for just that cartridge - likely co-advertised for this cartridge.
@@rogerbuettnero3513 You're of course correct - but it is rimless. Also, the Marlin Levermatic is chambered in 30 carbine - certainly wouldn't be much of a stretch to make that or the BLR in a 350 Legend chambering.
You've got a mistake on the 30-30 160-grain FTX Ron. The BC is .330. A significant difference from .241. It's the SD that's .241. This puts the 30-30 as the clear winner over the 350 Legend in the FTX category. Gives you more than 1150 foot-pounds @ 200 yards. Which makes drop just the tiniest bit less than the 350 Legend as well.
I'm building a 35 Whelen AI as we speak to replace my limp-wristed 350 Legend. Love shooting the Legend, but the terminal performance is severely lacking.
@@bigjon576 New powders have 250 grain bullets at 2700 fps in the Whelen, 100 fps less than a 270 grain in the H&H and 200 fps more than a 270 grain in the 9.3. That's pretty good performance in my book.
I bought a Savage bolt action chambered in 350 legend 2 years ago because I live in the straight walled zone of Michigan. I shot a nice buck this year with it and the entry wound looked like the deer was hit with two twelve gauge slugs. This gun definitely has optimum bullet expansion in 180 grain. It’s my new favorite deer gun. Lightweight, low recoil, lots of knockdown power.
I wanted to get away from the ol 444 Marlin for a while that I use during primitive weapons season so I picked up a 350 Legend. I've been extremely impressed with the performance. I've killed deer out to about 175 yards with a 180gr soft point and now my wife, my dad and mom all hunt with one during primitive weapons season. I have a 16 inch CVA break action hammer fired rifle with suppressor and it's silly quiet. I like it enough that I built an AR15 so I could hog hunt at night. Cool cartridge and great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
What state are you in? Those are mighty modern rounds for most primitive seasons. I knew some states allowed pre-twentieth century rifles, but I never heard of a state allowing modern cartridges and guns for primitive season.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 I'm down in SW Louisiana. The rules use to be that it was muzzle loaders only (I believe) but they changed the rules to a single shot break action hammer fired rifle firing a straight wall cartridge 35cal or larger... we can even shoot a 35 Whelen even though it has a little shoulder so technically it's not a straight wall cartridge. It gives me an extra couple weeks of deer hunting without a ton of hunters in the woods so I love it.
You left out .450 bushmaster. In Iowa you have 3 rifles that are selling like hotcakes since the state started allowing straight wall. .350 legend is by far the most popular followed by the .450 bushmaster and 45-70 govt. Simply enough the .350 for younger hunters and the .450 for folks that want a bigger bore. And there’s a huge difference in terminal performance between the 2. Personally I picked up a Marlin 45-70 1895G for both performance (hits like a sledge hammer),handiness being a compact lever action, and nostalgia. Walnut and deep blueing speaks to me as a hunter than an AR-15.
Call me crazy but....I will take both. I have a Ruger AR in 450 bushmaster and it's stupid fun to shoot and a great mid to large game gun. But a good Marlin in 45-70 is a beautiful gun as well. One upside for the 450 bushmaster is I can find ammo for it anywhere but the 45-70 it's hit and miss around here anyways.
@@roberthdavisii had the same issue and just gave up and started reloading my own. It's been a great experience. You can find brass online in bulk for decent prices, melt lead to make your own bullets and use no# 34 primers since large rifle primers are always sold out. I'm working up a 405 gn load right now.
Great video. I also wanted this round in a lever gun, but I will probably hunt here in Indiana with a 16inch barrel Ruger and sight the rifle dead in at 100 yards or an inch high and will probably never shoot beyond 50 yards in the woods. Ammo is cheap too and no need to reload. Plenty of bullet types available and ballistically it's so close to the 3030 that it's good enough. Plus a coyote out to about 150 yards is in trouble too. Great rifle cartridge I believe. Lot's of ammo choice and it's inexpensive. I was at Walmart and they had box after box of about 4 or 5 different manufacturers 350 legend ammo. Thanks for the info. Very appreciated sir. Merry Christmas and happy New year sir.
I'm surprised you left the (your favorite to say, HA!) 450 bushmaster off the straight wall contender list. Also, It's such a bummer to me that they didn't design the 350 legend to be a longer version of the 357 magnum so that revolvers chambered in 350 legend could also chamber 357 magnum/38 special. Like how the 460 SW magnum can also chamber 454 Casul, and 45 Long Colt. I would buy one INSTANTLY if they could. Great content as always, Thank you!
It is called .357 maximum or .357 super magnum. Without Hornady xtp and 25.o gr Acc 1680 you can get 1990 fps using a Marlin 1894C rechambered to .357 Max. With18 in bbl. Single shot only. Rifle action is just a bit too short to work thru action.
Illinois resident. As of now we can use straight walls in a pistol platform with a 1 bullet restriction. As of January 1st will be able to use single shot rifles in single shot. I purchased the cva scout 350 legend and I love it. If you are recoil sensitive you need this caliber.
Thankfully I don't live in a state to where I'm limited to him with just a straight walled cartridge but regardless I have to admit Ron the more you talk about the .350 legend the more interested I am about it 🤔
Yep. Who cares if it is Russian origin? There are a LOT of American sources for ammo and components. Plus, Russia isn't the country funneling our tax dollars to the DNC like Ukraine! Just saying.....
Very informative ! Thanks for sharing some of your wisdom on the matter. I had my sights on an upper in .350 Legend. Thanks to this video, I'll probably go with a bolt action/scope rifle. Thanks again !!
The primary reason for the 350 is to work in the states limiting to the straight walled options. The 450 BM is king but lots want a lower recoil option, better for say women or youth hunters.
@gman77gas Exactly. Some farm areas are more densely populated. Doesn't really make sense since you can use whatever you want on coyote at least in Iowa.
45-70 black powder loads were used to kill bison at 1000 yards. I'm sure that heavy bullets with crazy momentum and sectional density through the roof are totally safe at distances Gun laws are made by people who know nothing and just want to pass laws.
@@gman77gas the basic idea is the regulators want a cartridge for dense population areas that is deadly to 200 yards, then drops harmless to the ground. This is the closest thing they could come up with.
Took a buck this year with the 350 legend. It's a hammer! The 150 gr deer season basically explodes on impact, it opens up super shallow, the deer dropped in his tracks and was instantly dead. After opening him up, i discovered that the bullet did not exit his off side. However, everything on the inside that was in the way, was completely destroyed. The damage on the inside looked like a bomb went off.
@@TrapDaddy65 it's a very good thing. And no, i didn't destroy any meat. There's barely any meat on the ribs. If you take a broadside lung shot, and you shoot behind the shoulder like you're supposed to instead of through the shoulder, there's zero meat loss, behind the shoulder, ( double lung) or double lung and heart is the cleanest shot you can make for speed of death and lack of meat loss
I live at Ohio where straightwall cartridge is the law normally hunt with the 450 bushmaster but my scope was messed up this year so I grabbed my 350 legend that I had for my grandson that thing is an absolute tak driver And where I hunt a 100 yd shot is a long shot so this 350 legend is an absolute great deer hunting road I've been using the Winchester XP deer season 150 grains
I think the 444 marlin and the 450 marlin are criminally underrated. They are excellent cartridges, they both perform better than the 45-70. They need to more more rifles chambered in them.
Currently there are no new rifles chambered in .444 Marlin to the best of my knowledge. Ruger Marlin should definitely do so. Nothing says putting Marlin back on the map, like chambering at least one rifle with a Marlin cartridge and the.444 would be ideal.
Maybe in the case of yhe 450, but the 444 Marlyn is certainly not the equal of more modern 45/70. The only reason those two appear to be superior is they are a more modern iterations as the industry is scared that there are alot of older 45/70's out there which are not as strong as the modern metallurgy or actions (black powder period) . The old 45/70 with a falling block or a Ruger #1 actions loadings have their own special sections in any reloading manual and can rival many 450 Bushmaster loads.
@@garrett892 Maybe I'm missing something, but there shouldn't be any bullet you could load in .45-70 you couldn't load in .450 Marlin. Unless you are talking about availability of factory ammo, in which case you are probably right.
Hey Ron, love all your videos. Just got a CVA scout in 350 Legend for a hunt in Ohio next year. I didn't purchase any OTC ammo, just brass, bullets and a few powders. Looks like IMR 4227 is the winner. About crimping the case, you have to because loading them is just like loading most pistol cartridges. You have to bell the mouth to start the bullet. The real problem I encountered was getting the correct amount of lube on the case! These long straight wall cartridges get stuck very easily!!! So, not enough your stuck, too much and you get dimples in the brass. Once you get that down, a slight crimp works fine. Maybe carbide dies would help with this? I'll let you know about trimming once I load this brass a second time. Thanks again for all the great content. P.S. don't forget about 450 Bushmaster for a straight wall choice.
Another outstanding video!!!! I know the 7.62x40 Wilson Tactical is not the most popular cartridge, but I use an AR with and 18" barrel chambered in 7.62x40 WT loaded with Wilson Combat ammo with a 125 grain Speer Pro Hunter bullet. I've taken seven deer in Virginia and WV with it and was hoping someone would do a great video comparing it to the .30-30, .350 Legend, .300 Blackout for close range deer hunting. The 7.62x40 WT is extremely reliable out of an AR platform, due to being slightly bottlenecked, and it makes a great platform for young, small statured, and recoil-sensitive hunters. My three young daughters will be using it for deer hunting (and my .300 Blackout). A little early, but Merry Christmas to all and Happy Year Year!!!
I live in Illinois, on 01/01/2023 the DNR will allow a straight wall cartridge to be used to harvest a deer .30 or larger. The largest cartridge so far is a 500 nitro express. Now you can use a Bottle neck cartridge like the .300 blackout aka 7.62x35. You can find a PDF on the DNR website
If you could get Henry to chamber a Long Ranger, there’s your lever action. It comes in 308 if I remember correctly. (Update : The Henry Long Ranger comes in 223 Remington. Box magazine , same head diameter as 223 Rem. I bet if you just put a 350 legend barrel on one, it solves your no lever action 350 legend problem.
Browning BLR was also chambered in .223 at one time as well if I recall. That being said the .350 Leg. would theoretically work okay from any magazine fed action that chambers .223 length cartridges.
I don't see why they couldn't chamber .350 Legend in one of their tube-fed guns, Yes, it's rimless, but so is .35 Remington and they offer that. Maybe the slight rebate causes more issues than I would anticipate, I don't know.
Thanks Ron for the review. 30 30 is my favorite cartridge but have been curious about the 350, I thought it had a bit more Umph . Looking forward to your analysis of the 444 , my second favorite , and yes I also have a 45 70 but much prefer the 444 both in a Marlin Lever and a H&R single shot . Ontario Canada .
So... to be totally honest, My Model 94 was the first deer rifle I ever owned. It belonged to my father who died just before my 3rd birthday. My mother saved it for me and gave it to me when I returned home from the U.S. Marines. It's the one possession I own that was his. For that reason alone, the 30-30 is my favorite cartridge.
Amazing thanks for sharing
Great story. If you have hunting in your family genes, you probably have a story like that. I know I do. The point is that we sometimes confuse our “favorite” hunting round with the “best” hunting round.
Nostalgia and family ties will do this. Hey if it works and it has a story behind it who cares if another gun or cartridge comes along that is slightly better on paper? It wont change the fact that it's your favorite!
Darn good reason too.
Good for you! Thanks for your service.
When it comes to the 30-30 ballistics and performance past 100 yards... I have used a 30-30 since 1977.... With it I have shot exactly 1 deer at or just over 100 yards. The rest have definitely been under 75 yards and most of those under 50.
Those are the distances and performance that matter to most 30-30 users, IMO.
350 legend ammo is everywhere, that alone makes it very likable.
Give it 5 years and it will be mia too
For now... 30-30 has been around a lot longer and millions more rifles
Seems like state defendant.. here in Ohio, yea. Cause you can actually hunt with it, unlike decades past when you could only use shotguns & muzzleloader
Not so much in Canada. Right now 30 30 is scarce as well, but normally it is carried by local stores. The 350 is likely real good, but 3030 works and it is what I own.
One thing that has my interest peaked with the 350 Legend is you can go AR, bolt action or revolver. One of each would be fun to have.
30-30 is my favorite whitetail caliber/rifle ever. I’ve taken multiple trophy bucks in the NC mountains, including a 144” 11pt this season.
i took a trophy buck myself with my 30-30 this year
@@constitutionalrepublican1611 good job 👍
I love the 30 wcf. I killed two bull moose in Alaska. I live there from 87 till 2004. It worked fine. The native people that I was very close friends with use the 3030 for everything.
@@JeffreyCotle cool. I’ve heard that before so it’s good to see those remarks were valid
I just picked up my first 30-30 rifle a Henry break action can't wait for the weekend when I've got some time to shoot it
Good luck!
What I like about the 350 Legend is that my local Walmart has consistently had them in stock at a reasonable price.
yep thats one reason why I went with it. Its the only cartridge that walmart sells that can go in an AR. Before they banned all other pistol and AR rounds, walmart had the cheapest ammo and its close. I suppose its not necessarily a bad thing though, because it helped out the local gun stores and online retailers. Ammo prices are still pretty high anyways so online is usually the way to go
Walmart in Washington state ruled by a king rather than a governor, quit selling anything firearm related. Due to the pressure by the damn democrats ruling this state. We are screwed so many ways.
Disappointed that everyone has seemed to have forgotten my all time favorite lever-action round the 375 Winchester! The smokeless version of the venerable 38-55. The ORIGINAL straight walled lever-action cartridge. Thank you for including it in your show. 21:36
Love my Winnie in .375. It's about the perfect open-sight cartridge for me. I don't want to shoot open sights as far as Elmer Keith did. Mine, bought used for a song, took the orange dot out at 65 yards with the first shot. I was pleased.
30-30 or 35 Rem.
@@gman77gas What an insightful and knowledgeable comment. I learned so much from it, that I don't think my life will ever be the same. It's like I've seen God.
@@Keifsanderson 7mm08. Hope you learned something grasshopper 😂
@@raygibson1252 Oh boy, you present a compelling argument as well. 7mm-08 it is.
I am a 41 mag fan, and many years ago I played around with making a “companion” cartridge for my 41 mag Black Hawk by straight walling the 30-30 case to .410 and it worked nicely. JDJ has a wildcat like that it would be interesting to see.
Thanks for another great episode, Ron! I'm just happy that I live in a state where I can shoot whatever I like best.
First year using the 350 here in Michigan and it has worked flawlessly in a AR platform. Never had feed issues and it’s a great 200yd and in gun! Way better than a shotgun and cheaper to shoot to boot.
Way way much better than any slug shotgun for sure..even rifled barrel with sabot slugs of any kind. Also in S MI and am happy as you know what with the .350 Legend or .450 Bushmaster, own both. I enjoy the .350 better because of recoil for whitetail, this being said the Bushmaster is one heck of a heavy hitter, like the 45-70 maybe?
Ron, if you’re really wanting to find the closest match to 30-30 out of an AR, the 300 HAMR is it. Spot on
The 300 Ham'r is becoming one of my favorite little rounds. We just need more options for bbl manufacturers!
300 HAMR is a great round.
I also have a 300 hamr' and love it. When Bill Wilson designed the 300 hamr', he first called the ar 30-30. On one side of my dust cover, it says 300 HAMR' and on the other side it says AR 30-30....
I really appreciate that you do the numbers at maximum point blank range. Makes it so nice to compare. Also, learning about it from your videos changed the way I sight my hunting rifles in. Makes a lot of sense.
I love your channel keep up the great work Mr Spomer… I myself have owned four different 30-30s over a 20 year period and I must say it is my favorite for the east Texas woods… I have also had 270, 7mm rem mag, 308 win, and they all have a certain purpose for every application… People tend to enjoy arguing about what is best when they are all great in their own way… Thank you so much for your expertise on so many different calibers out there…
I agree that the 350 Legend in the designated legal hunting States play a great role. However I don't see the millions of lever action rifles from Marlin, Winchester, etc in 30/30 going anywhere fast anytime soon. Thanks for sharing Ron.
Henry is supposed to start making the .350 legend in lever action this May. I’ll buy one as soon as it’s out, but I’ll still have my trusty 30/30 to shoot too 😉
Tbh, it’s kinda retarded they are doing that.
I think that's the problem as far as the manufacturers are concerned. They want people to buy new firearms and not just ammunition. Thus come up with a brand new caliber that is instantly a legend because it says legend in the name.
I own both . Why argue?
If you can legally use bottleneck ctgs where you live / hunt cool , by all means happily carry on .
But for the tens of millions of hunters that previously were limited to shotguns , the demand for effective straight wall ctgs is huge , and legitimate.
And for millions of shooters , primarily but not necessarily under 40 , the AR- 15 is their primary , prefered , and will be their nostalgic rifle platform .
I’ve been testing a 140gr all copper load from Bear Creek Ballistics. 2650fps and is performing fantastic! I’ve taken a couple deer with it on camera already this year and should have more before too long. Fun to see all the new loads being offered!
I saw u shoot that buck in the ass lol..... Really like watching your hunts
I concurr Gabe! You have some excellent footage of the 350 legend in action in michigan! And the 450 bushmaster🙂👍👍
I was so excited about your video I came here to talk about that round but you already posted about it. :)
@@ev3dale298 .450 Bush overkill on white tail hunting which the 350 Legend was designed for, 90% of hunters will never hunt anything but white tail deer.
@@ev3dale298 Nope never had use for one, I have used a 45/70.
Your channel is one of my favorites of all time! Thank you for all your great work.
I took 2 deer with my sons this year with a Henry single shot in 350 legend. Dropped them both where they stood at 113 and 56 yards respectively. I was really impressed with it.
I like Ron. Great information and enjoyable to listen to.
I love my 30/30. This would be more interesting with the 35 Remington vs 350 legend
The 35 Remington has about the same powder capacity as a .308 Winchester. The 350 Legend has about the same powder capacity as the 30-30 so they are very similar in velocity trajectory and recoil, the 350 just delivers a little more energy. It works amazing on deer.
YES!
The premise was what compares to a 30-30, not the 350 or the 35. Ballistically the 350 and 300 blackout compare well with 30-30.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 Thanks for the worthless and condescending lesson.
The only comparison I’m concerned about here is which one can be found on shelves. Funny thing is, is that I don’t have a .350 legend.
You’re absolutely my favorite gun guy Ron. Thank you for what you do.
Don't forget the 450 bushmaster for the straight wall and OAL length limited hunting areas. The 450 is very popular and legal here in MI in the "limited firearm deer zone." In fact I like it so much I use it in the unlimited zones as well.
I was thinking the same thing.
What about the .450 bushmaster ?!?
@@toddhuff6007 Yup, same here. 🤷♂
I think he left it out on purpose, probably because he was scared to call it a 458 bushmaster 😜😜😜😂😂😂
You bet! 450 BM is my go to in southern lower Michigan. I use a 98 mauser rebarreled to 450 and build my handloads around 250gr Hornady ftx bullets and Hogdon Lil gun powder. Velocities hover around 2,350 fps and make for a relatively flat shooting cartridge. I just don't see anything the 350 can do better.
I run the 350 legend in the restricted and unrestricted zones. I’ve often wondered about getting an upper receiver in 450 bushmaster just because even when ammo was harder to find, I regularly saw 450 bushmaster on the self most places.
Absolutely amazed just how CLOSE the 30-30 and 350 Legend are! I still love my old 30-30 but love the fact if I want a AR15 Platform 30-30 I definitely know where to find one! Thanks Ron you never disappoint in bringing information to table.
I just learned 350 l on ar ar I sold my 1955 35cal marlin but it modern America this legend in ar is the alltmount outdoor rifle
comparing 170gr in both calibers, the ballistics are identical. Even with the 150-165gr the ballistics are nearly identical. Its awesome to have a modern 30-30 in an AR platform that hits like a hammer inside of 250 yards
Great review Ron! I could have gone either way, 30-30 or 350 Legend, but went with the Legend due to the lack of 30-30's in my area, as well as the cost, appreciate these reviews. Cheers
Same here, 30-30 are scarce and when you do find them, they are $37.50 a box. However, .350 legend are plentiful. But I don't own a .350 rifle.
One thing I like about the legend is the soft recoil allowing for rapid shots on target in an msr platform. Couple that with standard capacity mags and you have a great home defense rifle that doubles as a great hunting rifle.
Exactly! That's why I bought mine not to mention a simple barrel swap in the ar platform makes is so versatile I can shoot .22 and .223/5.56 if I wanted one lower several different options to shoot
Exactly! That's why I bought mine not to mention a simple barrel swap in the ar platform makes is so versatile I can shoot .22 and .223/5.56 if I wanted one lower several different options to shoot
When I take my horse through the living room with my trusty 30-30 saddle gun, those criminals start praying!
I appreciate the wealth for detail and knowledge that Ron has. But above all, I like how he can relate the cartridge to the environment. Afterwall, if your white tail hunts are in wooded environments with no clear lanes over 200 yards, then the .30-30 is great. Plus using a lever action sometimes just feels cool.
The first center fire rifle I shot, was my mothers Marlin 30-30, which still stacks up for a pretty good deer woods gun! The 350 Legend is a really nice round, for the states with those kind of restrictions. I have friends that have tried the 350 Legend, in an AR platform, and love it!! Thanks again Ron, for bringing useful information to the table, once again!!
Thanks Ron. Big fan of both ! I do a lot of whitetail hunting in straight walled cartridge states the last 4yrs. .350 Legend is what I hunt with now when I can't legally hunt with the lever gun!
I'm going to be looking out for 350 legend in the henry long ranger lever action rifle. They already have a 223/556 and this seems like a likely transition to the hunting community in straight wall zones. Love your work buddy God bless you and your family.
I was thinking the same thing. Seems like a no brainer for Henry. Also wondering about the Browning BLR.
Although it doesn’t look traditional, I’d say look up the fightlight herring. Before anyone scoffs and tells me that one ought to just get an AR-15, we have to consider that people like running lever actions and that people in places like PA can’t hunt with their AR-15’s (without certain mods) so, the herring at least provides an option. What is worth noting too, is that you can use an 1100 stock to give yourself the wood aesthetic.
@@MrRdvs87oof. Those fight lights are an abomination 😂😂😂
Henry isn't interested apparently. I asked about the new Express being chambered in .350, "no plans at this time".:(
@@brettbaker5599 When the .350 Legend first came out, I contacted Henry to see if they were going to offer one in lever action. Now I understand why they're not going to. Good video.
here in iowa we are a straight wall state, 45-70 and 444 marlin and 450 marlin are allowed even though they exceed the case length also 450 bushmaster is also popular here as well. i have used 45-70 and currently use 350 legend in a bolt gun and ar platform, thanks for the video, have a great holiday season
I’m an old former Iowan from the shotgun only days. I could still go back and hunt with my relatives on their farms in northwest Iowa but the cost vs the chance of drawing a tag seems high to me. On the other hand Iowa has the most extensive number of what they call “straight wall” cartridges allowed. I don’t think they really even use the words straight wall. Minimum 35 caliber. I think they say .350 but I’m going from memory here. Maximum 50 caliber. Minimum 500 ft lbs published muzzle energy. These maximums and minimums apply for both rifles and hand guns. There is no maximum case length. I don’t remember if there is a minimum length. They have a list of cartridges that meet the requirements but not all that can meet the requirements. They say ask your local game warden if have questions. They specifically list 35 Whelen and several others that are definitely not straight wall cases IMHO. You’re good to go with 357 Magnum, 350 Legend, 35 Remington, 358 Winchester, 375 H&H, 44 Magnum, 444 Marlin, 45-70 Gov’t, 458 Winchester, 458 Lot, 460 Weatherby and 50 BMG. Those are all I can think of at the moment. If you want to use 30-30 Winchester, 32 Winchester Special, 243 Winchester, 25-06, 257 Weatherby Magnum, 30-06, 300 Win Mag or 300 Weatherby magnum you are SOL.😂 I can’t make this stuff up. Just go to the Iowa DNR WEBSITE to read the regs. If you want to hunt in both Iowa and Minnesota, Michigan, or Wisconsin and you can only afford one rifle, then go ahead and buy a 35 Legend, 360 Buckhammer, 400 Legend or 450 Bushmaster. Happy hunting boys and girls.
Hey Ron, nice job. Michigan hunter here. Just the southern half of the mitten is under the straight wall cartridge restriction. I have a 44 mag Ruger bolt action for this area. Several 44 mag rounds are made for rifles. Some even with pointed bullets like the Hornady.
My brother bought a beautiful Henry single shot 350 legend. He has had it back to Henry 2 times now for light strikes. Not impressed with Henry, but love the 350…
Mostly I hunt in the upper peninsula though and I used a Marlin 336 in 30-30 for 3 decades and many, many kills. A very effective round as long as you are not pulling 300 yard shots. Very accurate as well. When I was 17 and bought it used (1968 vintage), it clover-leafed 3 shots at 100 yards with 170 grain Remington core-locks and I never shot anything else. I just gave it to my son a couple years ago when he turned 11. He has shot 2 bucks and a doe with it already. All drt. A perfect short and maneuverable gun in a blind.
I switched to a Ruger Hawkeye 6.5 CM because my new blind has several 300 yard shots, and I love light recoil. I still love picking up my old 30-30 way more than my fancy new CM.
Keep up the great work.
I'll keep the 30-30. I handload so options are there. Trail Boss is fun to play with in 30-30 with vg results out to 100 yds.
I've had really good results with BLC(2) as well.
@@Lauterbach24 I'll give BLC 2 A WHIRL
@@Eric--zs6um isn't the cleanest powder, but it flows wonderfully and gives excellent accuracy in everything I've tried it in.
I am always amazed at the knowledge that you have.
nice to see the 7.62x39 mentioned, it is a solid cartridge in its own right. I have a CZ 527 (mini-Mauser) in it and it's a handy rifle that comes in at five and half pounds and 37 inches overall. it's short and light and I can take it through the brush better than any other rifle I have, and it uses a caliber that is very suitable for white tail. I know it is dead accurate out to three hundred yards with the sight as well (not that I'd take a shot that far, even if could get one that long), so I don't see any problem with it. that round has little to do with Russia, since they moved on to 5.45x39mm in 1974. we ought not blame calibers for deeds committed by their parent nations, that's just silly. like you always say, it's just ballistics.
I almost bought that gun and still might but the new Russian ban on ammo made it less appealing. That gun shoots steel ammo better than brass. Or at least that's how it was marketed. That really is a selling point for me as I have thousands of rounds bought years ago. At this point I kinda want to save it for my sks tho😣
I agree, I have the cartridge in Ruger ranch and tc contender. They are both very accurate and very impressive on whitetail with Hornady ammo.
@@wildweasel6898 they weren't cheap rifles before, and they go for a bit more now. They discontinued the model in 2020 or so. I'm in the market for a second one in .223. It's fun, but in 7.62x39 it has some recoil. Not painful, but it is a little startling if you aren't ready. Lot a pop and not a lot of shove is the best way I can describe it. The nice part about shooting it is not only is it cheap because the caliber, it's also relatively cheap because the slow fore rate. You really get the bang for your buck out of a 20 round box of ammunition.
@@vettelover2009 yeah, those mags are incredibly pricey.
About 15 years ago, I hand loaded a Hornady 180 grn ( single shot pistol bullet) in a 358 Winchester to about 2300 fps as a first deer rifle for my son… worked very well, while not recoiling heavily…
I’m loving the 450 Bushmaster in a Ruger American Ranch Rifle… it will do whatever you need out to 200+ yards, and do it to bigger game…. We (in PA) have some areas that require a straight walled case or shotgun, and includes black bears… sometimes very large black bears…
I still use my Marlin .30-30 as my primary deer dispatcher after 40 years. I have several options to choose from in my gun safes but I just can’t seem to let it go , it’s perfect for me. Short barrel, compact size , reliable , and easy shooting. Why change ?
Thanks Ron for all of the great videos
There is a rimmed version. The Mighty .357 Remington Maximum!!!!! Make a lever gun in the Max! Hey Henry git' to it!!!
You were absolutely correct with the 300blk. I have shot all kinds of game with it and will never go back. 8.6blk is next on my list, thanks!
Agreed, 300 BO just doesn't have the thump that other centerfire rounds do. I have one, but haven't used it in years. I keep threatening to rebarrel the upper to a better round.
Winchester had a run of over crimped ammo that was recalled a couple years ago. It was not head spacing right and causing over pressure. There is a video about it by a gun smith rifle build here on RUclips. Eagle eye shooting
ruclips.net/video/8wEvKrgxfvs/видео.html
Ron, you are right about the blackout.
I sure enjoy the 350 legend. Ammo was cheap when I stock piled it. So far, I've had 3 deer drop right where they stood with the 350L.
What ammo u shooting?
@@timmytim6427 150g white box
I like the 180s
Thought of 450 bushmaster, 50 beowolf, 458 Hamr. Just as other options, but on the plus side for 350 legend, it was one of the few cartridges I saw still often available when the ammogedon was going on.
.458 HAM'R is bottlenecked.
@@jic1 it's .300 HAM'R
@@actionjksn There's more than one HAM'R.
I've been wanting a .50 Beowulf for a good while now.
Just haven't been able to talk myself into another expensive cartridge to keep on hand.
Although I no longer own a 30 30 I like it can do its job at a lower chamber pressure and they have been making bullets so long for that cartridge I found it worked excellent at the ranges I hunted while hunting in thick scrub in New Zealand.
@13:20 Hornady does a soft tip in 350 legend because it is supposed to help with expansion. Similar to why the Critical Defense in pistol calibers has a plastic insert to avoid the hollow point clogging.
I’d like to see Ron review all mini action rounds for hunting.
Living in Michigan in the restricted zone I purchased a .350 legend Savage Axis 2 and it has become my go to gun. It loves the Winchester 180 gr PowerPoint rounds. I am get 1.5” groups at 100 yards. It took three deer this year. Two out of the three dropped where they stood. Not sure how much longer I will take the .308 up north. I will just be using the .350 all over the state. Great round out to 200 for sure. I don’t hunt anywhere that I need more yardage than that.
The 350 Legend works really well out of short barrels, on average it looses very little from 20" down to 16", straight wall + very fast burning powders = good performance out of short barrels. I'm getting a tad over 2200fps with those 165gr FTX's with Lil Gun in a 16" AR. Ron is right though trim length is hyper critical and the crimp is pretty critical too but a Lee factory crimp die is a huge help.
I'm seeing 2200 fps with a 300 grain SMK in an AR10.
.375 Raptor.
Agreed, it still produces a lot of power out of short barrels like 11 inch or so. If I can source parts I might give it a go as a pistol.
Gains velocity if you reload. As does every pistol ready cartridge. Manufacturers load rounds that are used in pistols and rifles to be useful in both, but tuned to neither one. EVERYTHING is a trade off. They want the pistol guys money for 357 magnum, 350 Lego, etc. Just as they do the rifle people's.
@@yewwtooob 180 grain SJHP .357 Magnum at 1450 Feet Per Second is great. 110 Grain at 1900 Feet per second is great. So is 125 Grain at 1700 FPS.
.357 is Awesome.
Even better..... a Glock in 9x25 Dillon.
Poorly build 124 Grain bullets at 1700 FPS in a Glock 20 will give you 125 Grain SJHP performance.
70 Grain hits 2300 fps.
With stick mags....you have AR power kinda.
Just before this , watched a you tube with .350 L starting out @ 25 inch , cutting back an inch at a time to 7 inches .
12 inch still giving 2150 - ish fps . Good for AR Pistols , SBR , T/C Contenders , or suppressor hosts , with pinned suppressor to make 16 inch net bbl length to not need two tax stamps .
Good video.
It all really comes down to where you live. Both cartridges are great and work well within their ranges. If you have regulations for straight wall then the 350 is an excellent choice.
Not to mention 30-30 ammo has become stupid expensive in the past two years.
I really like the numbers for 45-70 vs 450 bushmaster.
The 450bm is a baby in comparison to what 45-70 can do.
@@t-bfr45-70 SAAMI pressure on the 45-70 is 28,000 the bushmaster 38,500 the 45-70 can be loaded above that for a modern rifle but off the shelf Ammunition is going to be loaded to that spec.
@@AverageHouseHusband that's why said can do but at this point there are enough companies out there loading it to higher pressure as well Buffalo bore, grizzly, hsm and underwood. Reason the 45-70 is so limited is for some id10t don't try putting it in a Springfield trapdoor. Really gets sad when you learn most factory ammo on the shelf is below 20,000cup. You can push 300gr to 2200fps and still be under 28,000cup.
@@t-bfr45-70 Hornady Lever Evolution gets some good numbers in 45-70, pulls ahead at long range with heavy bullets but with comparable weights your not going to see much if any advantage in 45-70 over 450BM.
@@AverageHouseHusband leverevolution don't empress me much in 45-70 405 cast boolets are usually able to be more accurate and if you keep to same weight as 45lc with your 45-70 your doing it wrong. Most 350bm loads are 300gr and lower most 45-70 are 350gr and up with the 350bm already being at the top of it's load capabilities. If I want an ar I guess 450bm be ok but I'd probably do an ar10 450 marlin KAK upper instead. Better options for bullets not to mention have more then enough 458 bullets.
.350 CVA scout 180 Winchester PP was effective for me in MI south of the line this year. A pleasant cartridge recoil wise and ammo easy to find. Handy safe rifle in the woods at a great price. I love a single shot
It might be a good idea to resurrect the 45-60 cartridge which is an excellent round.
eh, ill take the 45-70.... ive never heard of the 45-60.....
40-65?
Or the 405 Winchester, if it was good enough for Teddy Roosevelt...
Ron! Please do a video on our great family of 35 caliber cartridges!
Another popular and fun to shoot round is the 450 bushmaster. It does a number on a deer.
that was the first alternative to 350L that came to mind for me for the restricted states, and BCA makes uppers in both calibers.
Ron you would probably appreciate the efficiency and surprising flat shooting of a 357 Mag lever action. From a Brian Pearce article, 19 gr Lil' Gun and a 158 gr JSP BC .16 goes 2030 fps in a 20" barrel. Buffalo Bore gets a 158 going 2150.
2.8" high at 100 is dead on at 150 and 3" low at 175. Use a bonded JSP like the Speer for 99% of shooting and you have the option of the Speer bonded JHP for longer shots where bullet has slowed down. Both bullets hit the same POI.
I was already using my 357 and 45 Colt rifles for years by the time the 350 legend came out and there really isn't much gain over the 357 rifle with Underwood, Buffalo Bore or handloads with Lil' Gun powder.
The 350 legend has a little more energy at 175 yards but the pointy JSP do not mushroom past 100 yards. Watch all the videos- many of the JSP don't expand at 10 yards off the muzzle and the 150 disintegrates and penetrates like a 223. For a hypothetical 175 yard shot would you rather send a bonded Gold Dot 158 through a deer at 1350 fps or a pointy, non expanding legend bullet at about 150 fps faster? Same argument against the 30-30: at 175 yards most bullets don't expand but the 357 rifle has decades of bullet technology from law enforcement use to optimize performance at 12-1400 fps. At 13-1500 fps the Legend and 30-30 act like FMJ
I've been looking for a 357 maximum rifle for years, even thought of cannibalizing another rifle for a conversion (contender barrels don't last long on the market) after I saw the article in american rifleman I said this is it! As soon as brass was available from starline I bought 1000 rounds and waited til I could buy a Savage Axis. With a little work my handloads cut the group size of the factory fodder by half and I dropped a hog so fast that he never even squealed. this is what I've wanted for 30 years and it's dirt cheap to feed. A happy camper here.
Rich
There was an old fellow here abouts, that's gone now, had a H&R single shot in .357 that fell in love with the .357 Maximum. He had the barrel rechambered for the .357 Maximum and he said it was his most favorite deer rifle.
I live in Kansas and was looking for 243 rounds for over 2 years and was unable to get any so I went with the 350 and I love it
Ron, interesting video. Thanks. My state is still working on a rifle regulation. Needs to be a single shot. Actually any action will work, if the magazine is removed. Once they finally come out with their regulation, I think I'll be looking to have a highwall built.
Also, I'm not a reloader but I find it interesting to hear your thoughts on the "problems " with the 350.
All the best to you.
Cheers, Jeff
Oh man I'm really excited about the 444 Marlin
Big fan of both. I originally bought my 350Leg because I loved shooting the 30-30 but didn't want to shoot my grandpa's Winchester 94 1000 times per year ( I wanted to keep it the way he had it when he bought it in 1950-1951. ) I also wanted to run a low power variable scope... And to me... And I may be wrong... But scopes belong on modern bolt guns, Not lever guns.
Edit : when I first bought my 350, the 145gr fmj plinking ammo was $9/box of 20... That was a major selling point as well. Having a full power deer capable rifle cartridge that has a cheap plinking option, not to mention it's a 35 cal with very little recoil... What's not to love
Not scoping a lever action is a matter of perspective. Older models that needed to be tapped, I don't go for that, but newer models that are pre-tapped, I'm all for letting the enthusiast with poorer eyesight enjoy their experience just the same. I'm getting older and there's just no two ways about it... it's hard to use irons now, so I'm scoping everything that comes built to allow it.
I have two lever actions and the both have peep sights, so I'm not arguing.
The rear open sight is just a blur now, can't use them at all any more. ☹️
I LOVE LOVE LOVE a lever action hunting rifle. I have several Marlin 336, including an old 1950 model WaffleTop with 24" barrel. Have to say that (even more than the Browning BLR) my favorite is the Henry Long Ranger in .308.
I have called a begged for Henry to make that Long Ranger in 350 Legend. Since it is magazine fed, it just makes perfect since.
Thank you for another great video with super informative details like always.
I chose to shoot 350L soley for the fact that you get 30-30 ballistics along with soft recoil, while enabling me to use my AR for hunting. I love my lever action 30-30, but living in MI, my area to hunt is limited north of the limited deer zone while the 350 will enable me to hunt state wide with no restrictions. Another pro to the 350L is ammo, ammo is easy to find and fairly inexpensive to plink and practice with. 30-30 used to be cheap to shoot and fun to plink with, but now ammo for it is not available like it was and it's not cheap anymore either.
Imo, I think they could make a lever action for this caliber, especially if it's mag fed (for all varieties of ammo, tube fed will work for the round nose and ballistic tips), and designed it like the marlin but with an AR style bolt incorporated.
Fellow Michigander here. I hunt the restricted zone as well, my 350 is awesome. I got a nice buck this year, 150gr deer season shredded his lungs and dropped him. Since we can't use 30-30, I'll take my 350 over a slug gun any day
@@jonquirk9582
Congrats on the buck my friend. I've used a shotgun many of times with success, but there are times that one buck presents itself and the range is questionable with a shotgun. Not so much with the 350L and it still does fairly well in heavily wooded areas, just like the 30-30, lol.
I built my 1st ar 15 this year in 350 legend for my daughters to deer hunt with (Ohio). I love it so far. My daughters aren't afraid of the recoil which is what I was looking for.
Straight walled cartridge stretching on detonation is pretty nominal as compared to necked down cartridges. I hand load both, I check my bottle necked cartridges after three uses from the trimmed state. Most will go a couple more, straight walled brass in my pistols will go multiple reloads without needing trimming. Granted, the 350 Legend has higher pressures but keeping the brass trimmed is not going to be a problem anyway cuz if you hand load, you should have case trimming tools on hand. Go-No go gauges are highly important to bottle necked, with straight wall, dial calipers are likely sufficient.
Thank you for that info. I have dies, etc. to reload my 350 Legend but haven't started yet. I have only reloaded bottle-necked cases to date. I wasn't worried. but now I am even more confident.
How hot are you able to push the 350?
@@vettelover2009 I do, indeed, have Lee dies. They have never let me down in the other cartridges I reload. I realize the 350 Legend is a different type of cartridge from my others. I am shooting a Savage Axis and have the Lee collet crimp die. That has also worked well in my other cartridges. Mostly, I have Federal brass, some Winchester. Would it be worth it to get Starline?
@@vettelover2009 Thank you for the information. Sounds solid. Is there anything I need to know about using the RCBS? All my experience is with Lee. Any differences I need to consider?
Lee collet crimping die will destroy your headspace control! Only thing useable is a taper-crimp die, like what is used for an autoloading pistol cartridge that also headspaces on the case mouth.@@wdtaut5650
I like Paul Harrel's chronographs, meat targets, and comparisons far more than all the talking from a table on this channel...
Ron,
I really enjoy my .30-30 and I am willing to accept it’s limitations and design flaws. I understand that there plenty of superior cartridges however they lack the nostalgia and old school mystique of a classic.
The reason that so many people continue to enjoy the old cartridge is exactly because Winchester got it right the first time!
Ron I was going to say” Hey you missed the .450 Bushmaster” but I see Kylecarpenter 40 beat me to it! Great job on the other cartridge comparisons as you usually do!
My deer rifle for Ohio is ar platform in 350, more Ohio deer taken during gun week were taken with straight walled cartridges than slugs or MZL. Prior to 350 I was shooting 444 marlin in a lever gun, a shoulder thumper.
I have a 444 that I use in brush and when I know my shots would be under 200 yards. I load 300s at 1800 fps so its not super hot but its enough to kill anything in my area. Plus that load groups about an inch at 100 yards. Not as accurate as the Lever Evolution. Just curious on why you made the switch.
@@jakeoutdoors9600 recoil!
Already dropped a nice whitetail buck this year with my old trusty Winchester 94 in .30-30 Winchester! I hunt with it at least 4 or 5 times every year. I have never had to track a deer with that gun or round but I try my level best to do my part! The .35 Remington is often overlooked! Got one in a .336 Marlin and it just puts deer down!
Great video Ron!
But there is the 35 Remington.... long chambered in lever action / tubular magazine rifles (rimless) and I'm betting those ftx bullets measure 0.357" for just that cartridge - likely co-advertised for this cartridge.
But, it isn’t a straight wall case. The .35 REM has a shoulder as I recall.
@@rogerbuettnero3513
You're of course correct - but it is rimless. Also, the Marlin Levermatic is chambered in 30 carbine - certainly wouldn't be much of a stretch to make that or the BLR in a 350 Legend chambering.
You've got a mistake on the 30-30 160-grain FTX Ron. The BC is .330. A significant difference from .241. It's the SD that's .241. This puts the 30-30 as the clear winner over the 350 Legend in the FTX category. Gives you more than 1150 foot-pounds @ 200 yards. Which makes drop just the tiniest bit less than the 350 Legend as well.
35 Whelen is a hammer. Definitely a different level of recoil
The 375 h&h and the 9,3x62 are better. More ammo availability, heavier/larger bullets going nearly the same velocity.
I'm building a 35 Whelen AI as we speak to replace my limp-wristed 350 Legend. Love shooting the Legend, but the terminal performance is severely lacking.
@@bigjon576 New powders have 250 grain bullets at 2700 fps in the Whelen, 100 fps less than a 270 grain in the H&H and 200 fps more than a 270 grain in the 9.3. That's pretty good performance in my book.
@@rg8249 35 Whelen is considered “primitive” in Louisiana. Haven’t had one take a step.
I shoot a 375 H&H but I’m 75 years old
I bought a Savage bolt action chambered in 350 legend 2 years ago because I live in the straight walled zone of Michigan. I shot a nice buck this year with it and the entry wound looked like the deer was hit with two twelve gauge slugs. This gun definitely has optimum bullet expansion in 180 grain. It’s my new favorite deer gun. Lightweight, low recoil, lots of knockdown power.
.450 bushmaster is my go to straight wall. Would like to see how that stacks up to .350 legend
Well it beats it hands down for power, that's for sure.
Problem for some can be to much power under 100yards, its a beast. 45 Raptor and .460 S&W are even hotter.
Less recoil, better accuracy, cheaper ammo. Whats not to love. It has dropped every deer.
340 legend for me!
Love my 450 Bushmaster!! It's definitely my brush gun of choice
I wanted to get away from the ol 444 Marlin for a while that I use during primitive weapons season so I picked up a 350 Legend. I've been extremely impressed with the performance. I've killed deer out to about 175 yards with a 180gr soft point and now my wife, my dad and mom all hunt with one during primitive weapons season. I have a 16 inch CVA break action hammer fired rifle with suppressor and it's silly quiet. I like it enough that I built an AR15 so I could hog hunt at night. Cool cartridge and great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
What state are you in? Those are mighty modern rounds for most primitive seasons. I knew some states allowed pre-twentieth century rifles, but I never heard of a state allowing modern cartridges and guns for primitive season.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 I'm down in SW Louisiana. The rules use to be that it was muzzle loaders only (I believe) but they changed the rules to a single shot break action hammer fired rifle firing a straight wall cartridge 35cal or larger... we can even shoot a 35 Whelen even though it has a little shoulder so technically it's not a straight wall cartridge. It gives me an extra couple weeks of deer hunting without a ton of hunters in the woods so I love it.
You left out .450 bushmaster. In Iowa you have 3 rifles that are selling like hotcakes since the state started allowing straight wall. .350 legend is by far the most popular followed by the .450 bushmaster and 45-70 govt. Simply enough the .350 for younger hunters and the .450 for folks that want a bigger bore. And there’s a huge difference in terminal performance between the 2. Personally I picked up a Marlin 45-70 1895G for both performance (hits like a sledge hammer),handiness being a compact lever action, and nostalgia. Walnut and deep blueing speaks to me as a hunter than an AR-15.
Where do ya find ammo for your 45-70? I've been looking everywhere and cannot find any online or in stores.
@@roberthdavisii Scheels in Jordan Creek had a good amount last i checked
Call me crazy but....I will take both. I have a Ruger AR in 450 bushmaster and it's stupid fun to shoot and a great mid to large game gun. But a good Marlin in 45-70 is a beautiful gun as well. One upside for the 450 bushmaster is I can find ammo for it anywhere but the 45-70 it's hit and miss around here anyways.
@@roberthdavisii had the same issue and just gave up and started reloading my own. It's been a great experience. You can find brass online in bulk for decent prices, melt lead to make your own bullets and use no# 34 primers since large rifle primers are always sold out. I'm working up a 405 gn load right now.
Great video. I also wanted this round in a lever gun, but I will probably hunt here in Indiana with a 16inch barrel Ruger and sight the rifle dead in at 100 yards or an inch high and will probably never shoot beyond 50 yards in the woods.
Ammo is cheap too and no need to reload. Plenty of bullet types available and ballistically it's so close to the 3030 that it's good enough. Plus a coyote out to about 150 yards is in trouble too.
Great rifle cartridge I believe.
Lot's of ammo choice and it's inexpensive. I was at Walmart and they had box after box of about 4 or 5 different manufacturers 350 legend ammo.
Thanks for the info. Very appreciated sir.
Merry Christmas and happy New year sir.
Ron, take into account handloading with the Leverevolution powder. Gives the 30-30 an extra 200 fps at max load.
That’s a niche loading and is not the venerable benchmark for the cartridge.
And leverrevolution can be used in the 350 also....eh..
@@jeffpinkava9634 Learn something new every day.
@@woodrowcall3158 Well, I reckon I am all gucci niche like that.
@@usafret4709 Gucci mane and his pissin hot progressive powders 😂
I like both…that’s why I have both. But 30-30 has a special place in my heart. God bless America!!
I'm surprised you left the (your favorite to say, HA!) 450 bushmaster off the straight wall contender list. Also, It's such a bummer to me that they didn't design the 350 legend to be a longer version of the 357 magnum so that revolvers chambered in 350 legend could also chamber 357 magnum/38 special. Like how the 460 SW magnum can also chamber 454 Casul, and 45 Long Colt. I would buy one INSTANTLY if they could. Great content as always, Thank you!
Agreed. That would be 357 maximum, which is basically a dead cartridge now. But a really cool one!
It is called .357 maximum or .357 super magnum. Without Hornady xtp and 25.o gr Acc 1680 you can get 1990 fps using a Marlin 1894C rechambered to .357 Max. With18 in bbl. Single shot only. Rifle action is just a bit too short to work thru action.
Illinois resident. As of now we can use straight walls in a pistol platform with a 1 bullet restriction. As of January 1st will be able to use single shot rifles in single shot. I purchased the cva scout 350 legend and I love it. If you are recoil sensitive you need this caliber.
Thankfully I don't live in a state to where I'm limited to him with just a straight walled cartridge but regardless I have to admit Ron the more you talk about the .350 legend the more interested I am about it 🤔
Great video, sound quality of the video is superb
762x39 seems to be a great little cartridge and is very cheap I would love to see a video on that one
Yep. Who cares if it is Russian origin? There are a LOT of American sources for ammo and components.
Plus, Russia isn't the country funneling our tax dollars to the DNC like Ukraine! Just saying.....
Yup I can attest that is a great deer cartridge.
Very informative ! Thanks for sharing some of your wisdom on the matter. I had my sights on an upper in .350 Legend. Thanks to this video, I'll probably go with a bolt action/scope rifle. Thanks again !!
The primary reason for the 350 is to work in the states limiting to the straight walled options. The 450 BM is king but lots want a lower recoil option, better for say women or youth hunters.
Whats the reason for straight wall?
Limiting travel distance ? So as not to hit something
That is a ridiculous stereotype. They both work, one is cheaper, lighter and can be shot better by more people.
@gman77gas Exactly. Some farm areas are more densely populated. Doesn't really make sense since you can use whatever you want on coyote at least in Iowa.
45-70 black powder loads were used to kill bison at 1000 yards. I'm sure that heavy bullets with crazy momentum and sectional density through the roof are totally safe at distances
Gun laws are made by people who know nothing and just want to pass laws.
@@gman77gas the basic idea is the regulators want a cartridge for dense population areas that is deadly to 200 yards, then drops harmless to the ground. This is the closest thing they could come up with.
Just got a 350 used it for deer season in Missouri firearms took an 8ptr very pleased with this round love it
Took a buck this year with the 350 legend. It's a hammer! The 150 gr deer season basically explodes on impact, it opens up super shallow, the deer dropped in his tracks and was instantly dead. After opening him up, i discovered that the bullet did not exit his off side. However, everything on the inside that was in the way, was completely destroyed. The damage on the inside looked like a bomb went off.
Is that a good thing? It sounds like you may have destroyed a lot of meat. Was that the case?
@@TrapDaddy65 it's a very good thing. And no, i didn't destroy any meat. There's barely any meat on the ribs. If you take a broadside lung shot, and you shoot behind the shoulder like you're supposed to instead of through the shoulder, there's zero meat loss, behind the shoulder, ( double lung) or double lung and heart is the cleanest shot you can make for speed of death and lack of meat loss
@@jonquirk9582 Thanks for the reply.
I live at Ohio where straightwall cartridge is the law normally hunt with the 450 bushmaster but my scope was messed up this year so I grabbed my 350 legend that I had for my grandson that thing is an absolute tak driver And where I hunt a 100 yd shot is a long shot so this 350 legend is an absolute great deer hunting road I've been using the Winchester XP deer season 150 grains
I think the 444 marlin and the 450 marlin are criminally underrated. They are excellent cartridges, they both perform better than the 45-70. They need to more more rifles chambered in them.
Currently there are no new rifles chambered in .444 Marlin to the best of my knowledge. Ruger Marlin should definitely do so. Nothing says putting Marlin back on the map, like chambering at least one rifle with a Marlin cartridge and the.444 would be ideal.
I’ll all for a Ruger-Marlin in .444. Nothing like that .44 Supermag Plus!
I considered both of those, but the sheer bullet variety in 45/70 is hard to beat. Can be loaded for just about anything you want to do.
Maybe in the case of yhe 450, but the 444 Marlyn is certainly not the equal of more modern 45/70. The only reason those two appear to be superior is they are a more modern iterations as the industry is scared that there are alot of older 45/70's out there which are not as strong as the modern metallurgy or actions (black powder period) . The old 45/70 with a falling block or a Ruger #1 actions loadings have their own special sections in any reloading manual and can rival many 450 Bushmaster loads.
@@garrett892 Maybe I'm missing something, but there shouldn't be any bullet you could load in .45-70 you couldn't load in .450 Marlin. Unless you are talking about availability of factory ammo, in which case you are probably right.
Hey Ron, love all your videos. Just got a CVA scout in 350 Legend for a hunt in Ohio next year. I didn't purchase any OTC ammo, just brass, bullets and a few powders. Looks like IMR 4227 is the winner. About crimping the case, you have to because loading them is just like loading most pistol cartridges. You have to bell the mouth to start the bullet. The real problem I encountered was getting the correct amount of lube on the case! These long straight wall cartridges get stuck very easily!!! So, not enough your stuck, too much and you get dimples in the brass. Once you get that down, a slight crimp works fine. Maybe carbide dies would help with this? I'll let you know about trimming once I load this brass a second time. Thanks again for all the great content. P.S. don't forget about 450 Bushmaster for a straight wall choice.
Always an educational experience with Ron.
Another outstanding video!!!! I know the 7.62x40 Wilson Tactical is not the most popular cartridge, but I use an AR with and 18" barrel chambered in 7.62x40 WT loaded with Wilson Combat ammo with a 125 grain Speer Pro Hunter bullet. I've taken seven deer in Virginia and WV with it and was hoping someone would do a great video comparing it to the .30-30, .350 Legend, .300 Blackout for close range deer hunting.
The 7.62x40 WT is extremely reliable out of an AR platform, due to being slightly bottlenecked, and it makes a great platform for young, small statured, and recoil-sensitive hunters. My three young daughters will be using it for deer hunting (and my .300 Blackout).
A little early, but Merry Christmas to all and Happy Year Year!!!
7.62x39, loaded with the right bullet, is pretty darned close to the 30-30.
agreed
I live in Illinois, on 01/01/2023 the DNR will allow a straight wall cartridge to be used to harvest a deer .30 or larger. The largest cartridge so far is a 500 nitro express. Now you can use a Bottle neck cartridge like the .300 blackout aka 7.62x35. You can find a PDF on the DNR website
If you could get Henry to chamber a Long Ranger, there’s your lever action. It comes in 308 if I remember correctly.
(Update : The Henry Long Ranger comes in 223 Remington. Box magazine , same head diameter as 223 Rem. I bet if you just put a 350 legend barrel on one, it solves your no lever action 350 legend problem.
Browning BLR was also chambered in .223 at one time as well if I recall.
That being said the .350 Leg. would theoretically work okay from any magazine fed action that chambers .223 length cartridges.
I don't see why they couldn't chamber .350 Legend in one of their tube-fed guns, Yes, it's rimless, but so is .35 Remington and they offer that. Maybe the slight rebate causes more issues than I would anticipate, I don't know.
I suspect that Marlin and Henry, maybe Browning will all be building lever guns in 450, 350, etc soon enough due to the demand.
Thanks Ron for the review. 30 30 is my favorite cartridge but have been curious about the 350, I thought it had a bit more Umph . Looking forward to your analysis of the 444 , my second favorite , and yes I also have a 45 70 but much prefer the 444 both in a Marlin Lever and a H&R single shot . Ontario Canada .
Excited to see 444 vs 350. Love em both.
The 300 Ham'r outperforms the legend, blackout, and 7.62 considerably and has been my go to deer cartridge for the last few years.
Great Video Ron ! Thanks for the info. You should have also included the 450 Bushmaster.
Excellent content, very nicely presented, and easy to follow, especially for the less knowledgeable people out there.