350 Legend vs. 30-30 Winchester?
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- The 350 Legend vs. the 30-30 Winchester is a pretty close match-up, or is it? The 30-30 Winchester has been the reigning champion for whitetail hunting since 1895, but the 350 Legend might just give it a run for its money. Both of these cartridges have a lot of similarities when you get into the ballistic charts, which I always do. Let me know in the comments below if you think I got it right in this episode of Ron Spomer Outdoors.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
So... to be totally honest, My Model 94 was the first deer rifle I ever owned. It belonged to my father who died just before my 3rd birthday. My mother saved it for me and gave it to me when I returned home from the U.S. Marines. It's the one possession I own that was his. For that reason alone, the 30-30 is my favorite cartridge.
Amazing thanks for sharing
Great story. If you have hunting in your family genes, you probably have a story like that. I know I do. The point is that we sometimes confuse our “favorite” hunting round with the “best” hunting round.
Nostalgia and family ties will do this. Hey if it works and it has a story behind it who cares if another gun or cartridge comes along that is slightly better on paper? It wont change the fact that it's your favorite!
Darn good reason too.
Good for you! Thanks for your service.
I love my 30/30. This would be more interesting with the 35 Remington vs 350 legend
The 35 Remington has about the same powder capacity as a .308 Winchester. The 350 Legend has about the same powder capacity as the 30-30 so they are very similar in velocity trajectory and recoil, the 350 just delivers a little more energy. It works amazing on deer.
YES!
The premise was what compares to a 30-30, not the 350 or the 35. Ballistically the 350 and 300 blackout compare well with 30-30.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 Thanks for the worthless and condescending lesson.
The only comparison I’m concerned about here is which one can be found on shelves. Funny thing is, is that I don’t have a .350 legend.
When it comes to the 30-30 ballistics and performance past 100 yards... I have used a 30-30 since 1977.... With it I have shot exactly 1 deer at or just over 100 yards. The rest have definitely been under 75 yards and most of those under 50.
Those are the distances and performance that matter to most 30-30 users, IMO.
What I like about the 350 Legend is that my local Walmart has consistently had them in stock at a reasonable price.
yep thats one reason why I went with it. Its the only cartridge that walmart sells that can go in an AR. Before they banned all other pistol and AR rounds, walmart had the cheapest ammo and its close. I suppose its not necessarily a bad thing though, because it helped out the local gun stores and online retailers. Ammo prices are still pretty high anyways so online is usually the way to go
I'll keep the 30-30. I handload so options are there. Trail Boss is fun to play with in 30-30 with vg results out to 100 yds.
I've had really good results with BLC(2) as well.
@@Lauterbach24 I'll give BLC 2 A WHIRL
@@Eric--zs6um isn't the cleanest powder, but it flows wonderfully and gives excellent accuracy in everything I've tried it in.
Winchester had a run of over crimped ammo that was recalled a couple years ago. It was not head spacing right and causing over pressure. There is a video about it by a gun smith rifle build here on RUclips. Eagle eye shooting
ruclips.net/video/8wEvKrgxfvs/видео.html
First year using the 350 here in Michigan and it has worked flawlessly in a AR platform. Never had feed issues and it’s a great 200yd and in gun! Way better than a shotgun and cheaper to shoot to boot.
Way way much better than any slug shotgun for sure..even rifled barrel with sabot slugs of any kind. Also in S MI and am happy as you know what with the .350 Legend or .450 Bushmaster, own both. I enjoy the .350 better because of recoil for whitetail, this being said the Bushmaster is one heck of a heavy hitter, like the 45-70 maybe?
350 legend ammo is everywhere, that alone makes it very likable.
Give it 5 years and it will be mia too
For now... 30-30 has been around a lot longer and millions more rifles
Seems like state defendant.. here in Ohio, yea. Cause you can actually hunt with it, unlike decades past when you could only use shotguns & muzzleloader
Not so much in Canada. Right now 30 30 is scarce as well, but normally it is carried by local stores. The 350 is likely real good, but 3030 works and it is what I own.
One thing that has my interest peaked with the 350 Legend is you can go AR, bolt action or revolver. One of each would be fun to have.
I am a 41 mag fan, and many years ago I played around with making a “companion” cartridge for my 41 mag Black Hawk by straight walling the 30-30 case to .410 and it worked nicely. JDJ has a wildcat like that it would be interesting to see.
You left out .450 bushmaster. In Iowa you have 3 rifles that are selling like hotcakes since the state started allowing straight wall. .350 legend is by far the most popular followed by the .450 bushmaster and 45-70 govt. Simply enough the .350 for younger hunters and the .450 for folks that want a bigger bore. And there’s a huge difference in terminal performance between the 2. Personally I picked up a Marlin 45-70 1895G for both performance (hits like a sledge hammer),handiness being a compact lever action, and nostalgia. Walnut and deep blueing speaks to me as a hunter than an AR-15.
Where do ya find ammo for your 45-70? I've been looking everywhere and cannot find any online or in stores.
@@roberthdavisii Scheels in Jordan Creek had a good amount last i checked
Call me crazy but....I will take both. I have a Ruger AR in 450 bushmaster and it's stupid fun to shoot and a great mid to large game gun. But a good Marlin in 45-70 is a beautiful gun as well. One upside for the 450 bushmaster is I can find ammo for it anywhere but the 45-70 it's hit and miss around here anyways.
@@roberthdavisii had the same issue and just gave up and started reloading my own. It's been a great experience. You can find brass online in bulk for decent prices, melt lead to make your own bullets and use no# 34 primers since large rifle primers are always sold out. I'm working up a 405 gn load right now.
There is a rimmed version. The Mighty .357 Remington Maximum!!!!! Make a lever gun in the Max! Hey Henry git' to it!!!
I took 2 deer with my sons this year with a Henry single shot in 350 legend. Dropped them both where they stood at 113 and 56 yards respectively. I was really impressed with it.
I agree that the 350 Legend in the designated legal hunting States play a great role. However I don't see the millions of lever action rifles from Marlin, Winchester, etc in 30/30 going anywhere fast anytime soon. Thanks for sharing Ron.
Henry is supposed to start making the .350 legend in lever action this May. I’ll buy one as soon as it’s out, but I’ll still have my trusty 30/30 to shoot too 😉
Tbh, it’s kinda retarded they are doing that.
I think that's the problem as far as the manufacturers are concerned. They want people to buy new firearms and not just ammunition. Thus come up with a brand new caliber that is instantly a legend because it says legend in the name.
I own both . Why argue?
If you can legally use bottleneck ctgs where you live / hunt cool , by all means happily carry on .
But for the tens of millions of hunters that previously were limited to shotguns , the demand for effective straight wall ctgs is huge , and legitimate.
And for millions of shooters , primarily but not necessarily under 40 , the AR- 15 is their primary , prefered , and will be their nostalgic rifle platform .
I live at Ohio where straightwall cartridge is the law normally hunt with the 450 bushmaster but my scope was messed up this year so I grabbed my 350 legend that I had for my grandson that thing is an absolute tak driver And where I hunt a 100 yd shot is a long shot so this 350 legend is an absolute great deer hunting road I've been using the Winchester XP deer season 150 grains
I’ve been testing a 140gr all copper load from Bear Creek Ballistics. 2650fps and is performing fantastic! I’ve taken a couple deer with it on camera already this year and should have more before too long. Fun to see all the new loads being offered!
I saw u shoot that buck in the ass lol..... Really like watching your hunts
I concurr Gabe! You have some excellent footage of the 350 legend in action in michigan! And the 450 bushmaster🙂👍👍
I was so excited about your video I came here to talk about that round but you already posted about it. :)
@@ev3dale298 .450 Bush overkill on white tail hunting which the 350 Legend was designed for, 90% of hunters will never hunt anything but white tail deer.
@@ev3dale298 Nope never had use for one, I have used a 45/70.
Already dropped a nice whitetail buck this year with my old trusty Winchester 94 in .30-30 Winchester! I hunt with it at least 4 or 5 times every year. I have never had to track a deer with that gun or round but I try my level best to do my part! The .35 Remington is often overlooked! Got one in a .336 Marlin and it just puts deer down!
I just picked up my first 30-30 rifle a Henry break action can't wait for the weekend when I've got some time to shoot it
Good luck!
My deer rifle for Ohio is ar platform in 350, more Ohio deer taken during gun week were taken with straight walled cartridges than slugs or MZL. Prior to 350 I was shooting 444 marlin in a lever gun, a shoulder thumper.
I have a 444 that I use in brush and when I know my shots would be under 200 yards. I load 300s at 1800 fps so its not super hot but its enough to kill anything in my area. Plus that load groups about an inch at 100 yards. Not as accurate as the Lever Evolution. Just curious on why you made the switch.
@@jakeoutdoors9600 recoil!
Big fan of both. I originally bought my 350Leg because I loved shooting the 30-30 but didn't want to shoot my grandpa's Winchester 94 1000 times per year ( I wanted to keep it the way he had it when he bought it in 1950-1951. ) I also wanted to run a low power variable scope... And to me... And I may be wrong... But scopes belong on modern bolt guns, Not lever guns.
Edit : when I first bought my 350, the 145gr fmj plinking ammo was $9/box of 20... That was a major selling point as well. Having a full power deer capable rifle cartridge that has a cheap plinking option, not to mention it's a 35 cal with very little recoil... What's not to love
Not scoping a lever action is a matter of perspective. Older models that needed to be tapped, I don't go for that, but newer models that are pre-tapped, I'm all for letting the enthusiast with poorer eyesight enjoy their experience just the same. I'm getting older and there's just no two ways about it... it's hard to use irons now, so I'm scoping everything that comes built to allow it.
I have two lever actions and the both have peep sights, so I'm not arguing.
The rear open sight is just a blur now, can't use them at all any more. ☹️
30-30 is my favorite whitetail caliber/rifle ever. I’ve taken multiple trophy bucks in the NC mountains, including a 144” 11pt this season.
i took a trophy buck myself with my 30-30 this year
@@constitutionalrepublican1611 good job 👍
I love the 30 wcf. I killed two bull moose in Alaska. I live there from 87 till 2004. It worked fine. The native people that I was very close friends with use the 3030 for everything.
@@JeffreyCotle cool. I’ve heard that before so it’s good to see those remarks were valid
One thing I like about the legend is the soft recoil allowing for rapid shots on target in an msr platform. Couple that with standard capacity mags and you have a great home defense rifle that doubles as a great hunting rifle.
Exactly! That's why I bought mine not to mention a simple barrel swap in the ar platform makes is so versatile I can shoot .22 and .223/5.56 if I wanted one lower several different options to shoot
Exactly! That's why I bought mine not to mention a simple barrel swap in the ar platform makes is so versatile I can shoot .22 and .223/5.56 if I wanted one lower several different options to shoot
When I take my horse through the living room with my trusty 30-30 saddle gun, those criminals start praying!
I like Ron. Great information and enjoyable to listen to.
I sure enjoy the 350 legend. Ammo was cheap when I stock piled it. So far, I've had 3 deer drop right where they stood with the 350L.
What ammo u shooting?
@@timmytim6427 150g white box
I like the 180s
I am building an older Marlin to chamber 350 Legend. There are enough loads on the market I'd consider safe in a tube clipazine. Most especially I like the FTX Hornady loading.
Ron, if you’re really wanting to find the closest match to 30-30 out of an AR, the 300 HAMR is it. Spot on
The 300 Ham'r is becoming one of my favorite little rounds. We just need more options for bbl manufacturers!
300 HAMR is a great round.
I also have a 300 hamr' and love it. When Bill Wilson designed the 300 hamr', he first called the ar 30-30. On one side of my dust cover, it says 300 HAMR' and on the other side it says AR 30-30....
People love using their feelings over numbers to judge the effectiveness of a cartridge. Same logic blows the lungs out of a person with a 9mm.
.450 bushmaster is my go to straight wall. Would like to see how that stacks up to .350 legend
Well it beats it hands down for power, that's for sure.
Problem for some can be to much power under 100yards, its a beast. 45 Raptor and .460 S&W are even hotter.
Less recoil, better accuracy, cheaper ammo. Whats not to love. It has dropped every deer.
340 legend for me!
Love my 450 Bushmaster!! It's definitely my brush gun of choice
Shot a box of 170 gr Barnes copper vor TX through a Winchester XLR with a Leopold 350 legend scope ,cut holes 1" groups at 120yds
Thanks Ron. Big fan of both ! I do a lot of whitetail hunting in straight walled cartridge states the last 4yrs. .350 Legend is what I hunt with now when I can't legally hunt with the lever gun!
Excellent video. 44 mag, 45 LC, and 460 S&W really make a leap up in performance when there's no cylinder gap to bleed pressure from. Whether it's a single shot pistol/carbine, a lever action, or (for the fortunate few) the 44mag Ruger auto loader. My 10" contender shoots a hot 44mag hand load over 1900 fps. Seems like a 460 lever action would be an absolute hammer for any north American game inside of 200 yds.
460 is a hammer inside 200 yards in a revolver. So is the 500. I know my 500s&w lever gun is like shooting 12ga magnum slugs. It's scary good for a load I can make for ¢60 a piece.
I got a supremely good deal on my big horn, but I would recommend any number of modern bolt guns or single shots under $1k in the infinite easier to shoot calibers.
@@bobjohnson1633 I have a savage ML10-II that I load with 71gr of Re7 under a 300gr SST for 2450 fps. I've hunted with it for almost 2 decades now and killed dozens of deer with it. The 460 should duplicate its performance in a rifle. I call my Savage Mjolnir because it smites on both ends. I've field dressed deer that were killed with all manor of rifles, handguns. And shotguns. I've never seen anything that does more internal damage than this muzzleloader. Nothing else has come close.
I live in Pennsylvania now i had to come home from Alaska after my dad passed away unexpectedly.the 3030 is one of the most popular here. It has to be. The gun shops cannot keep 3030 ammo in stock.i had to go to west Virginia to get ammo. Good luck finding reloading stuff for the 3030 here
You could easily put it in a Browning BLR and I am surprised they haven't done it.
i would be a buyer!
And the Henry version. I think they cal it Long Ranger?
Ron, take into account handloading with the Leverevolution powder. Gives the 30-30 an extra 200 fps at max load.
That’s a niche loading and is not the venerable benchmark for the cartridge.
And leverrevolution can be used in the 350 also....eh..
@@jeffpinkava9634 Learn something new every day.
@@woodrowcall3158 Well, I reckon I am all gucci niche like that.
@@usafret4709 Gucci mane and his pissin hot progressive powders 😂
The primary reason for the 350 is to work in the states limiting to the straight walled options. The 450 BM is king but lots want a lower recoil option, better for say women or youth hunters.
Whats the reason for straight wall?
Limiting travel distance ? So as not to hit something
That is a ridiculous stereotype. They both work, one is cheaper, lighter and can be shot better by more people.
@gman77gas Exactly. Some farm areas are more densely populated. Doesn't really make sense since you can use whatever you want on coyote at least in Iowa.
45-70 black powder loads were used to kill bison at 1000 yards. I'm sure that heavy bullets with crazy momentum and sectional density through the roof are totally safe at distances
Gun laws are made by people who know nothing and just want to pass laws.
@@gman77gas the basic idea is the regulators want a cartridge for dense population areas that is deadly to 200 yards, then drops harmless to the ground. This is the closest thing they could come up with.
My first deer rifle that I still own is an 1894 saddle ring carbine in 30WCF...which we know now as 30/30. It belonged to my Granddad, then my Dad and now me. It was manufactured in 1903. Probably my first 15 deer were taken with that rifle before I switched to a .308 and eventually added calibers like 270, .243 and 7mm08. The furthest distance I ever shot a deer with that rifle was maybe 50-60yds. Every one dropped in it's tracks. With the higher power cartridges, my typical heart/lung shot, sees probably 2/3 of them run 30-80yds before folding up and hitting the ground without another twitch. I have shot deer at distances up to max 200yds with those calibers though (I use scopes now). I have my suspicions as to why I get so many runners, but I am not a cartridge expert. Regardless of whether they run or not, I know they are dead when I pull the trigger and hit them....but weirdly enough, when they run off, it's in the opposite direction from the truck!!!!!
Zero reason to EVER worry about “down range energy and efficiency” of the 30-30. Shoot it at 150 yards and you’ll never have to worry about deer or black bear hunting. Good grief people.
Great review Ron! I could have gone either way, 30-30 or 350 Legend, but went with the Legend due to the lack of 30-30's in my area, as well as the cost, appreciate these reviews. Cheers
Same here, 30-30 are scarce and when you do find them, they are $37.50 a box. However, .350 legend are plentiful. But I don't own a .350 rifle.
357 maximum is essentially the same with a rim. Not near enough demand to drive the mfg of a lever gun.
I would love a lever gun in 357 max. That seems like a match made in heaven. Sadly it's basically a dead cartridge now.
I have a variety of straight walled cartridges 44-40, 44 magnum, 45 Colt ( an excellent deer cartridge), 454 Casull, 450 bushmaster, and 45-70. Except for the 44-40, they are all excellent to 150 yards with the right bullet selection. The idea of traitor wall cartridge regulations is to limit their effective range, so you won’t find long range option.
Don't forget the 450 bushmaster for the straight wall and OAL length limited hunting areas. The 450 is very popular and legal here in MI in the "limited firearm deer zone." In fact I like it so much I use it in the unlimited zones as well.
I was thinking the same thing.
What about the .450 bushmaster ?!?
@@toddhuff6007 Yup, same here. 🤷♂
I think he left it out on purpose, probably because he was scared to call it a 458 bushmaster 😜😜😜😂😂😂
You bet! 450 BM is my go to in southern lower Michigan. I use a 98 mauser rebarreled to 450 and build my handloads around 250gr Hornady ftx bullets and Hogdon Lil gun powder. Velocities hover around 2,350 fps and make for a relatively flat shooting cartridge. I just don't see anything the 350 can do better.
I run the 350 legend in the restricted and unrestricted zones. I’ve often wondered about getting an upper receiver in 450 bushmaster just because even when ammo was harder to find, I regularly saw 450 bushmaster on the self most places.
nice to see the 7.62x39 mentioned, it is a solid cartridge in its own right. I have a CZ 527 (mini-Mauser) in it and it's a handy rifle that comes in at five and half pounds and 37 inches overall. it's short and light and I can take it through the brush better than any other rifle I have, and it uses a caliber that is very suitable for white tail. I know it is dead accurate out to three hundred yards with the sight as well (not that I'd take a shot that far, even if could get one that long), so I don't see any problem with it. that round has little to do with Russia, since they moved on to 5.45x39mm in 1974. we ought not blame calibers for deeds committed by their parent nations, that's just silly. like you always say, it's just ballistics.
I almost bought that gun and still might but the new Russian ban on ammo made it less appealing. That gun shoots steel ammo better than brass. Or at least that's how it was marketed. That really is a selling point for me as I have thousands of rounds bought years ago. At this point I kinda want to save it for my sks tho😣
I agree, I have the cartridge in Ruger ranch and tc contender. They are both very accurate and very impressive on whitetail with Hornady ammo.
@@wildweasel6898 they weren't cheap rifles before, and they go for a bit more now. They discontinued the model in 2020 or so. I'm in the market for a second one in .223. It's fun, but in 7.62x39 it has some recoil. Not painful, but it is a little startling if you aren't ready. Lot a pop and not a lot of shove is the best way I can describe it. The nice part about shooting it is not only is it cheap because the caliber, it's also relatively cheap because the slow fore rate. You really get the bang for your buck out of a 20 round box of ammunition.
@@vettelover2009 yeah, those mags are incredibly pricey.
one thing we all already know, 30-30 is tried and true, killed more big game in America than the 350 ever will.
Not where I live. It illegal. We've been limited to shot gun slugs. .350 legend has a home in some states we're they won't allow the awesome 30-30.
Great video as usual. I live in Michigan and I hate how close all the ballistics are on the 33 and 350 legend and the 360 buck hammer. But I can't deer hunt with my 33 because I'm below the rifle boundary line. But I can use the 350 or 360 and they shoot just as far.
7.62x39, loaded with the right bullet, is pretty darned close to the 30-30.
agreed
The 300 Ham'r outperforms the legend, blackout, and 7.62 considerably and has been my go to deer cartridge for the last few years.
The 350 Legend works really well out of short barrels, on average it looses very little from 20" down to 16", straight wall + very fast burning powders = good performance out of short barrels. I'm getting a tad over 2200fps with those 165gr FTX's with Lil Gun in a 16" AR. Ron is right though trim length is hyper critical and the crimp is pretty critical too but a Lee factory crimp die is a huge help.
I'm seeing 2200 fps with a 300 grain SMK in an AR10.
.375 Raptor.
Agreed, it still produces a lot of power out of short barrels like 11 inch or so. If I can source parts I might give it a go as a pistol.
Gains velocity if you reload. As does every pistol ready cartridge. Manufacturers load rounds that are used in pistols and rifles to be useful in both, but tuned to neither one. EVERYTHING is a trade off. They want the pistol guys money for 357 magnum, 350 Lego, etc. Just as they do the rifle people's.
@@yewwtooob 180 grain SJHP .357 Magnum at 1450 Feet Per Second is great. 110 Grain at 1900 Feet per second is great. So is 125 Grain at 1700 FPS.
.357 is Awesome.
Even better..... a Glock in 9x25 Dillon.
Poorly build 124 Grain bullets at 1700 FPS in a Glock 20 will give you 125 Grain SJHP performance.
70 Grain hits 2300 fps.
With stick mags....you have AR power kinda.
Just before this , watched a you tube with .350 L starting out @ 25 inch , cutting back an inch at a time to 7 inches .
12 inch still giving 2150 - ish fps . Good for AR Pistols , SBR , T/C Contenders , or suppressor hosts , with pinned suppressor to make 16 inch net bbl length to not need two tax stamps .
As a teenager I got my first centerfire rifle; was a 30-30 that I still have. That was back in the early 80's. I haven't hunted with my 30-30 since 1996. I've owned so many guns since then and still I've taken more deer with my 30-30 than with any of my other rifles combined. It's an accurate open sight rifle, and the ULTIMATE brush gun.
Another popular and fun to shoot round is the 450 bushmaster. It does a number on a deer.
that was the first alternative to 350L that came to mind for me for the restricted states, and BCA makes uppers in both calibers.
Michigan is a straight wall state only in the bottom of the lower peninsula. It used to be south of m20, but I think they changed it to m57. I'm not near the line, so the actual divider isn't relevant to me. Where I'm at it's shotgun or straight wall only. I haven't used my 350L to hunt yet which is why I've been researching it and how I found the channel.
Disappointed that everyone has seemed to have forgotten my all time favorite lever-action round the 375 Winchester! The smokeless version of the venerable 38-55. The ORIGINAL straight walled lever-action cartridge. Thank you for including it in your show. 21:36
Love my Winnie in .375. It's about the perfect open-sight cartridge for me. I don't want to shoot open sights as far as Elmer Keith did. Mine, bought used for a song, took the orange dot out at 65 yards with the first shot. I was pleased.
30-30 or 35 Rem.
@@gman77gas What an insightful and knowledgeable comment. I learned so much from it, that I don't think my life will ever be the same. It's like I've seen God.
@@Keifsanderson 7mm08. Hope you learned something grasshopper 😂
@@raygibson1252 Oh boy, you present a compelling argument as well. 7mm-08 it is.
Great topic, just found a Vangard in 350 and I need to understand this new round for Whitetails in southern MI.
Thought of 450 bushmaster, 50 beowolf, 458 Hamr. Just as other options, but on the plus side for 350 legend, it was one of the few cartridges I saw still often available when the ammogedon was going on.
.458 HAM'R is bottlenecked.
@@jic1 it's .300 HAM'R
@@actionjksn There's more than one HAM'R.
I've been wanting a .50 Beowulf for a good while now.
Just haven't been able to talk myself into another expensive cartridge to keep on hand.
I love your channel keep up the great work Mr Spomer… I myself have owned four different 30-30s over a 20 year period and I must say it is my favorite for the east Texas woods… I have also had 270, 7mm rem mag, 308 win, and they all have a certain purpose for every application… People tend to enjoy arguing about what is best when they are all great in their own way… Thank you so much for your expertise on so many different calibers out there…
Great Video Ron ! Thanks for the info. You should have also included the 450 Bushmaster.
I think .350 Legend in an AR offers some interesting possibilities: with a simple upper switch you can go from .223 to something broadly equal to .30-30, you've got some options for your ammo choice (FMJ, hollowpoint, subsonics, etc), and because its being marketed as a hunting caliber you should have no issues with ammo availability because even retailers that are getting really uncomfortable with being in the firearms market like Walmart are still comfortable selling it compared to .223 or x39 or whatever
here in iowa we are a straight wall state, 45-70 and 444 marlin and 450 marlin are allowed even though they exceed the case length also 450 bushmaster is also popular here as well. i have used 45-70 and currently use 350 legend in a bolt gun and ar platform, thanks for the video, have a great holiday season
I’m an old former Iowan from the shotgun only days. I could still go back and hunt with my relatives on their farms in northwest Iowa but the cost vs the chance of drawing a tag seems high to me. On the other hand Iowa has the most extensive number of what they call “straight wall” cartridges allowed. I don’t think they really even use the words straight wall. Minimum 35 caliber. I think they say .350 but I’m going from memory here. Maximum 50 caliber. Minimum 500 ft lbs published muzzle energy. These maximums and minimums apply for both rifles and hand guns. There is no maximum case length. I don’t remember if there is a minimum length. They have a list of cartridges that meet the requirements but not all that can meet the requirements. They say ask your local game warden if have questions. They specifically list 35 Whelen and several others that are definitely not straight wall cases IMHO. You’re good to go with 357 Magnum, 350 Legend, 35 Remington, 358 Winchester, 375 H&H, 44 Magnum, 444 Marlin, 45-70 Gov’t, 458 Winchester, 458 Lot, 460 Weatherby and 50 BMG. Those are all I can think of at the moment. If you want to use 30-30 Winchester, 32 Winchester Special, 243 Winchester, 25-06, 257 Weatherby Magnum, 30-06, 300 Win Mag or 300 Weatherby magnum you are SOL.😂 I can’t make this stuff up. Just go to the Iowa DNR WEBSITE to read the regs. If you want to hunt in both Iowa and Minnesota, Michigan, or Wisconsin and you can only afford one rifle, then go ahead and buy a 35 Legend, 360 Buckhammer, 400 Legend or 450 Bushmaster. Happy hunting boys and girls.
I have shot deer with my marlin 1894 357 magnum with 158gr semi jacket hollow points. Hand loaded to 1950 fps. That's a straight wall option under 150yds.
35 Whelen is a hammer. Definitely a different level of recoil
The 375 h&h and the 9,3x62 are better. More ammo availability, heavier/larger bullets going nearly the same velocity.
I'm building a 35 Whelen AI as we speak to replace my limp-wristed 350 Legend. Love shooting the Legend, but the terminal performance is severely lacking.
@@bigjon576 New powders have 250 grain bullets at 2700 fps in the Whelen, 100 fps less than a 270 grain in the H&H and 200 fps more than a 270 grain in the 9.3. That's pretty good performance in my book.
@@rg8249 35 Whelen is considered “primitive” in Louisiana. Haven’t had one take a step.
I shoot a 375 H&H but I’m 75 years old
Hi Ron, the BC of that 160gr FTX is .330, the sectional density is .241. I believe if you run those numbers again it will be out front by a good bit.
I'm going to be looking out for 350 legend in the henry long ranger lever action rifle. They already have a 223/556 and this seems like a likely transition to the hunting community in straight wall zones. Love your work buddy God bless you and your family.
I was thinking the same thing. Seems like a no brainer for Henry. Also wondering about the Browning BLR.
Although it doesn’t look traditional, I’d say look up the fightlight herring. Before anyone scoffs and tells me that one ought to just get an AR-15, we have to consider that people like running lever actions and that people in places like PA can’t hunt with their AR-15’s (without certain mods) so, the herring at least provides an option. What is worth noting too, is that you can use an 1100 stock to give yourself the wood aesthetic.
@@MrRdvs87oof. Those fight lights are an abomination 😂😂😂
Henry isn't interested apparently. I asked about the new Express being chambered in .350, "no plans at this time".:(
@@brettbaker5599 When the .350 Legend first came out, I contacted Henry to see if they were going to offer one in lever action. Now I understand why they're not going to. Good video.
Can’t Henry put the 350 Legend in their detachable box magazine lever action?
Wouldn't 35Rem be a better comparison
Coming soon, Perry.
What about the .450 bushmaster. I know here in Iowa where we can only use straight wall cartridges the 450 in the 350 are about split in popularity.
I chose to shoot 350L soley for the fact that you get 30-30 ballistics along with soft recoil, while enabling me to use my AR for hunting. I love my lever action 30-30, but living in MI, my area to hunt is limited north of the limited deer zone while the 350 will enable me to hunt state wide with no restrictions. Another pro to the 350L is ammo, ammo is easy to find and fairly inexpensive to plink and practice with. 30-30 used to be cheap to shoot and fun to plink with, but now ammo for it is not available like it was and it's not cheap anymore either.
Imo, I think they could make a lever action for this caliber, especially if it's mag fed (for all varieties of ammo, tube fed will work for the round nose and ballistic tips), and designed it like the marlin but with an AR style bolt incorporated.
Fellow Michigander here. I hunt the restricted zone as well, my 350 is awesome. I got a nice buck this year, 150gr deer season shredded his lungs and dropped him. Since we can't use 30-30, I'll take my 350 over a slug gun any day
@@jonquirk9582
Congrats on the buck my friend. I've used a shotgun many of times with success, but there are times that one buck presents itself and the range is questionable with a shotgun. Not so much with the 350L and it still does fairly well in heavily wooded areas, just like the 30-30, lol.
450 Bushmaster!
Thanks for another great episode, Ron! I'm just happy that I live in a state where I can shoot whatever I like best.
You could make a lever action for the 350 legend just don't use a tubular fed magazine like they make the 308 lever actions.
I still use my Marlin .30-30 as my primary deer dispatcher after 40 years. I have several options to choose from in my gun safes but I just can’t seem to let it go , it’s perfect for me. Short barrel, compact size , reliable , and easy shooting. Why change ?
In Illinois, where I live, both the 300 Blackout and the 350 Legend will be legal for deer hunting in 2023, the first year for centerfire rifle cartridges. The caveat is that only single shot rifles or rifles modified to be single shot will be legal. A bolt action with a removable magazine will be legal if you leave the magazine at home. It's conceivable that an AR will be legal without a magazine, but I haven't seen guidance on that. The 30-30 is not on the list of legal cartridges, but the 32-40 is. I'm not convinced that they didn't mean the 32-20, but I don't have a rifle for either. The 38-55 is legal and I would love to shoot that, if I had a rifle for it. I don't mind the recoil of the 350 Legend, but I wouldn't consider it low recoil. Its recoil is comparable to my 50 caliber muzzleloader. I'm really interested in the 300 Blackout for woods hunting. Most of my shots are under 60 yards and I believe that, with the proper bullet, the Blackout will give good performance well beyond that range. I only use solid copper bullets for hunting nowadays and I think that there are many good bullet choices for both the Blackout and the Legend.
I would say the 350 should be compared to the 35 Rem, especially with proper loads in each.
Reloading possibilities are endless with 350 legend. Have not shredded any pistol jackets @2,200fps.yet..have not tried 220gr yet
I appreciate the wealth for detail and knowledge that Ron has. But above all, I like how he can relate the cartridge to the environment. Afterwall, if your white tail hunts are in wooded environments with no clear lanes over 200 yards, then the .30-30 is great. Plus using a lever action sometimes just feels cool.
24:31 Ron, this is really far from actual numbers, the velocity goes way up when you add the extra 14-16 inches over a revolver and no cyclinder gap.
The winchester super X 240 grain factory ammo hits 1900 fps out of a model 1892 20 inch Winchester made by Miroku.
Have also done hard cast projectiles in the mid 1800s, or the load that has been settled on with 240 grain Speer DeepCurl with the soft tip, not the hollowpoint version.
Factory 225 grain leverlution is surpassing 2000 fps.
The only thing that I've seen is the lower speed magtech/Sellier and Bellot 240 grain.
It might be a good idea to resurrect the 45-60 cartridge which is an excellent round.
eh, ill take the 45-70.... ive never heard of the 45-60.....
40-65?
Or the 405 Winchester, if it was good enough for Teddy Roosevelt...
Well Ron you r right buddy
If you could get Henry to chamber a Long Ranger, there’s your lever action. It comes in 308 if I remember correctly.
(Update : The Henry Long Ranger comes in 223 Remington. Box magazine , same head diameter as 223 Rem. I bet if you just put a 350 legend barrel on one, it solves your no lever action 350 legend problem.
Browning BLR was also chambered in .223 at one time as well if I recall.
That being said the .350 Leg. would theoretically work okay from any magazine fed action that chambers .223 length cartridges.
I don't see why they couldn't chamber .350 Legend in one of their tube-fed guns, Yes, it's rimless, but so is .35 Remington and they offer that. Maybe the slight rebate causes more issues than I would anticipate, I don't know.
I suspect that Marlin and Henry, maybe Browning will all be building lever guns in 450, 350, etc soon enough due to the demand.
Why didn't you add the 38-55 that's a straight wall cartridge. Maybe a bit longer than allowed for some restrictions. I think Ron you said it was a bottle neck which it is not.
It was the case they used to make the 30-30. Good information on the different cartridges thank you.
Ballistics aren't the only criteria, performance is what counts. The 30wcf has always been a under 200yd cartridge. On game with winchester silvertips, remington core lock, you do your part, the bullet will drop your animal right where there at
I solved the 30-30 problem by loading the tube with regular round nosed bullets in the 30-30 but the first round in the chamber has a normal spire point
762x39 seems to be a great little cartridge and is very cheap I would love to see a video on that one
Yep. Who cares if it is Russian origin? There are a LOT of American sources for ammo and components.
Plus, Russia isn't the country funneling our tax dollars to the DNC like Ukraine! Just saying.....
Yup I can attest that is a great deer cartridge.
300 Ham'r is closer to 30-30 than 300blk. Not very available though.
30-30 is just cool. Not quite as cool as a 45-70. 😎
50-70 Buffalo gun
There's an error in your data, the 30-30 ftx has a velocity of 2400 and bc of .330, the SD is .241. Therefore the 30-30 ftx energy at 200yds is 1328 ft/lbf at 1933 f/s.
Good catch grunt! Yes, I misidentified the SD number with the BC number on that one.
Thankfully I don't live in a state to where I'm limited to him with just a straight walled cartridge but regardless I have to admit Ron the more you talk about the .350 legend the more interested I am about it 🤔
300BO is a great all round cartridge for game east of the Mississippi, the 350 while another great cartridge it doesn't run as well in an AR as does the 300...
Absolutely amazed just how CLOSE the 30-30 and 350 Legend are! I still love my old 30-30 but love the fact if I want a AR15 Platform 30-30 I definitely know where to find one! Thanks Ron you never disappoint in bringing information to table.
I just learned 350 l on ar ar I sold my 1955 35cal marlin but it modern America this legend in ar is the alltmount outdoor rifle
comparing 170gr in both calibers, the ballistics are identical. Even with the 150-165gr the ballistics are nearly identical. Its awesome to have a modern 30-30 in an AR platform that hits like a hammer inside of 250 yards
Like I said when I’m selling guns at work 350 legend will give the 30/30 a run for it’s money You have said everything I’ve been saying about it it’s a good first time user gun for deer hunting for kids low recoil almost nothing there and people who don’t have the reach on a regular rifle 350 legend fits them perfectly. I sold 4 at one time to one customer after they listened She bought one for herself her two boys n her dad
Great video Ron!
But there is the 35 Remington.... long chambered in lever action / tubular magazine rifles (rimless) and I'm betting those ftx bullets measure 0.357" for just that cartridge - likely co-advertised for this cartridge.
But, it isn’t a straight wall case. The .35 REM has a shoulder as I recall.
@@rogerbuettnero3513
You're of course correct - but it is rimless. Also, the Marlin Levermatic is chambered in 30 carbine - certainly wouldn't be much of a stretch to make that or the BLR in a 350 Legend chambering.
I’ve never understood why they went with a
.355 diameter bullet
When a .358 would have been so much better
With all the tried and true 358 projectiles to choose from
It’s the case length of the 358 in straight walled states you can’t have it the case over 1.8 inches that’s why the 350 legend is selling like hot cakes that and you can use an AR platform …and the case length in 358 projectiles are 2.015 case length
Ron, interesting video. Thanks. My state is still working on a rifle regulation. Needs to be a single shot. Actually any action will work, if the magazine is removed. Once they finally come out with their regulation, I think I'll be looking to have a highwall built.
Also, I'm not a reloader but I find it interesting to hear your thoughts on the "problems " with the 350.
All the best to you.
Cheers, Jeff
And what is the main difference between the 30-30 and the 300 blackout and the 350 legend ? Lever actions require a blunt or round nose bullet to prevent detonation in the tube whereas the AR platform does not . So the 300 blackout and the 350 legend have an advantage over the 30-30 because of bullet design . Same goes for the 45-70 vs 450 bushmaster .
Although I no longer own a 30 30 I like it can do its job at a lower chamber pressure and they have been making bullets so long for that cartridge I found it worked excellent at the ranges I hunted while hunting in thick scrub in New Zealand.
I've heard 9 mm 115 grain bullets were being hand loaded.
Took a buck this year with the 350 legend. It's a hammer! The 150 gr deer season basically explodes on impact, it opens up super shallow, the deer dropped in his tracks and was instantly dead. After opening him up, i discovered that the bullet did not exit his off side. However, everything on the inside that was in the way, was completely destroyed. The damage on the inside looked like a bomb went off.
Is that a good thing? It sounds like you may have destroyed a lot of meat. Was that the case?
@@TrapDaddy65 it's a very good thing. And no, i didn't destroy any meat. There's barely any meat on the ribs. If you take a broadside lung shot, and you shoot behind the shoulder like you're supposed to instead of through the shoulder, there's zero meat loss, behind the shoulder, ( double lung) or double lung and heart is the cleanest shot you can make for speed of death and lack of meat loss
@@jonquirk9582 Thanks for the reply.
Depending where You Live, The 30-30 and the 35 Rem should be considered for Primitive/Straight walled/ancient hunting cartridges, New Black powder Rifles Will exede their balistics,
I'm surprised you left the (your favorite to say, HA!) 450 bushmaster off the straight wall contender list. Also, It's such a bummer to me that they didn't design the 350 legend to be a longer version of the 357 magnum so that revolvers chambered in 350 legend could also chamber 357 magnum/38 special. Like how the 460 SW magnum can also chamber 454 Casul, and 45 Long Colt. I would buy one INSTANTLY if they could. Great content as always, Thank you!
Agreed. That would be 357 maximum, which is basically a dead cartridge now. But a really cool one!
It is called .357 maximum or .357 super magnum. Without Hornady xtp and 25.o gr Acc 1680 you can get 1990 fps using a Marlin 1894C rechambered to .357 Max. With18 in bbl. Single shot only. Rifle action is just a bit too short to work thru action.
Ron,
I really enjoy my .30-30 and I am willing to accept it’s limitations and design flaws. I understand that there plenty of superior cartridges however they lack the nostalgia and old school mystique of a classic.
The reason that so many people continue to enjoy the old cartridge is exactly because Winchester got it right the first time!
Your channel is one of my favorites of all time! Thank you for all your great work.
Just for reference indiana finally changed the law. Can use basically whatever you want on private land as long as it's. 243/6mm or larger. But public land requires Fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger, Have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches, and Have a maximum case length of 1.8 inches
@FranzAntonMesmer is what it is. Before this we were limited to pistol calibers. Luckily I hunt private so I can use basically whatever
Straight walled cartridge stretching on detonation is pretty nominal as compared to necked down cartridges. I hand load both, I check my bottle necked cartridges after three uses from the trimmed state. Most will go a couple more, straight walled brass in my pistols will go multiple reloads without needing trimming. Granted, the 350 Legend has higher pressures but keeping the brass trimmed is not going to be a problem anyway cuz if you hand load, you should have case trimming tools on hand. Go-No go gauges are highly important to bottle necked, with straight wall, dial calipers are likely sufficient.
Thank you for that info. I have dies, etc. to reload my 350 Legend but haven't started yet. I have only reloaded bottle-necked cases to date. I wasn't worried. but now I am even more confident.
How hot are you able to push the 350?
@@vettelover2009 I do, indeed, have Lee dies. They have never let me down in the other cartridges I reload. I realize the 350 Legend is a different type of cartridge from my others. I am shooting a Savage Axis and have the Lee collet crimp die. That has also worked well in my other cartridges. Mostly, I have Federal brass, some Winchester. Would it be worth it to get Starline?
@@vettelover2009 Thank you for the information. Sounds solid. Is there anything I need to know about using the RCBS? All my experience is with Lee. Any differences I need to consider?
Lee collet crimping die will destroy your headspace control! Only thing useable is a taper-crimp die, like what is used for an autoloading pistol cartridge that also headspaces on the case mouth.@@wdtaut5650