Students of German are told to use the informal form when speaking to children, animals, family and close friends" Unless of course, the animal wears a nice suit like penguins. Always use the formal form addressing a penguin.
3:00 There've been a few court rulings on this: using "du" inappropriately does not, on its own, constitute an insult in the eyes of the law. Having said that, it is of course extremely presumptuous and you are correct to advise people against using it towards anyone in uniform.
In case anyone's wondering about the archaic English "thee," it's the equivalent of the accusative and dative forms of du/Sie. "Thou" is the nominative form.
I used to wonder why, in the German version of the musical Les Miserables, Fantine addresses Javert and Monsieur Madeline (Valjean's identity as her employer and mayor of Montreuil) as "ihr", and Eponine addresses Marius the same way. Now I know. Thanks.
Yes.. The pluralis majestatis is still used in first and second person... So kings, dukes, queens etc. are addressed with "Eure Majestät" and address themselves as "we" instead of I...
That's always a problem when translating movies or TV shows because people have to guess when the characters are close enough to each other to use du instead of sie. Sometimes that causes a weird feeling. I think usually when it's translated from English it is often used as an indication whether the characters use the first or last name to address each other.
Yes, definately. Still with the formal "Sie" and then she pulls up the bed sheet, not to be seen naked 😉😆 And sometime they cut out scenes. Just introduced but you got the feeling they had met before. Combined with formal "Sie" (or informal "Du") at wrong places it is even more weird.
Before the spelling reform for German in 1996 it was common to use capital letters for »Du« and »Sie« in informal and formal talking in any case when talking directly to someone. The spelling reform dropped the capital writing for »du«, but some people still write in the old way.
Not in talking, no: only in writing. In direct speech, it would always be written with a small initial letter. The current rules originally abolished this, but this has been changed since to make it option.
+Martin Steindl Good that you mention that :) I have one colleague who writes »Du« in emails and another who writes »du«. Do you think it's okay for me to always write »du« in my emails, or do I risk offending the person who prefers to write »Du«?
+etvdzs First of all: Rewboss is right about the rule. The rules for writing »Sie« (and »Du«) with capital letter applies for writing to a person e.g. in a letter, only. In direct speech e.g. in a novel »sie« and »du« are written with small letters in any case. Writing »Du« with capital letter in a letter or email nowadays is mostly a question of the personal preferences of the writer. Personally, since I had to use the old writing in school the whole time (I think so, at least. I don't remember the regularities in the last two years 1995 to 1997) I'm used to write »Du« in letters with capital letters, and it's one of the few things I didn't adapt from the new writing rules. On the other hand, the new writing rules are common for almost 20 years, now. So I don't think it's really offensive to write »du« with small letters in a letter or email. When in doubt you can always »blame« the official writing rules. For a German this may be a »thought-terminating clich« in most cases. ;) BTW: Occasionally in »quick and dirty« emails I'm omitting capital letters completely.
As far as I know, it was common form to use the capital letter up to the mid-90s and was seen as a "sign of disrespect or missig education". But, as far I remember, this formal rule was abandoned. If you want to be sure, just keep it at the following rule: If you write something "Official", like to the authotities, your Boss or someone where you want it to be formal, use the capital letter - and with that you probaly should use "Sie" (the formal adressing form). As long as you wite with friends, family members you are close with or everything else nonformal, you can use the small letter, no need to be formal - especially in private E-Mails without form. But, I have to admit, I do not know for certain what the rule is today, as I had seen too many "Rechtschreibreformen" for keeping up with all of the canges and changing back they did. This is just as I do and I did not know of anyone beeing offended by the form I adressed him - they are mostly offended by the way what I call them, not how I do it. ....this nitpicking bastards.....
You do have to distinguish between Sie/Ihr (direkte Anrede) and sie/ihr (plural) anyways. The capital letter in 'Du' wouldn't be strictly neccessary, but it's a simple enough rule that way: always use capital letters when addressing someone directly. Personally I mostly hang onto the capital letter in 'Du', both because I'm a creature of habit, it's a way to show a modicum of respect (as in: yes, I do read over my posts again for a (very superficial) spellcheck and yes, I do use capital letters when appropriate) - and it also makes for a simpler rule without an exception that way.^^
On social media always use the informal form - that comes from the history of the internet. Before the world wide web, we had communication platforms like the FIDO-net, the usenet and IRC chat, where everybody used the informal form. In the late 90s, web forums and web chats started coming up, and there it was still totally common to use the informal form. Then, about 10 or 15 years later, 'social media' were 'invented' and adapted this practice. However, unfortunately in some forums - especially on newspaper websites, which deem themselves "serious" - nowadays people insist on using the formal form, which alienates these sites from accustomed web users (and one could speculate if that was the reason for this policy).
Meriç Arslan LOL, I guess you didn't mean that. Also, an AMA on reddit (which is after all part of Neuland) would be *very* unlikely for chancellor Merkel to do. But your statement reveals that to every rule, there is an exception.
The use of the third person as a polite form is known to other European languages such as Portuguese, Spanish and Italian. Spanish Usted/Ustedes - capital letter, singular and plural forms - implies the meaning of "your grace". You address someone by not addressing him but his quality of being gracious. Portuguese uses the allocution O Senhor (His Lordship - but no aristocracy is implied, today): they address you as if they were talking about a third person. Italian - always elegant - use the form Lei, singular, grammatically feminine but used for men and women. It used to be Ella, but there's been a shift in the usage of pronouns from nominative forms to object forms. The form Loro, third person plural, was used for the plural and it should still be used, but many people don't know how to use it anymore and prefer voi which is the informal plural of you. If I'm not wrong - I'm just a beginner - Japanese uses the same linguistic device of Portuguese, that is not addressing someone directly but speaking to him as if he were a third person. The peculiarity is that Japanese use this way for informal you as well.
Well put. Just to add t the Spanish bit: usted comes from a combination of vuestra, which is the 2nd person plural possessive pronoun, and merced, which, as you pointed out, is grace. Where I'm from, most Spanish speakers just default to tu instead of usted, but I've never dealt with Spanish speaking authorities.
To make it even more complicated, you should mention the Hamburger Sie, the Berliner Er, the Münchner Du and the 1000 Meter Du in the mountains. You can also search for "Demel-Deutsch", a special form of adress in Viennese cafes. Btw you can say you to me. ;-)
Poor Germans. The lack of mountains drops the limit to 1000 m... (In Switzerland the corresponding rule is 3000m. We had some teachers who were notorious for making sure any school excursion would remain below that...)
I'm a bit curious.. You say "Unless you are invited to use the informal form." so does that mean Germans have an actual conversation at some point in their relationship about what to call each other? Like, will one person say "Shouldn't we just go informal?" or how does it work? How do you get invited to use the informal form exactly? :)
Yes: there is a verb in German, "duzen", which translates as "to use the informal mode of address" (and also "siezen" which means "to use the formal mode of address"). Somebody might say, "Du kannst mir ruhig duzen" ("You can go ahead and say 'du' to me") or "Sollen wir uns duzen?" ("Should we say 'du' to each other?").
+rewboss Ah thanks. That sounds so weird to me since I'm not used to that at all. :) So if everyone's working towards being informal with their friends, family etc. why does the formal form exist or see any use at all? It sounds like it's something everyone really would prefer to "get past" ASAP? Since we don't use a system like that here in Denmark, it sounds kinda unfriendly to me tbh. Not openly hostile or anything but just not-on-friendly-terms. To me it sort of seems like a person is trying to keep an emotional distance if they're too polite. Like they're not really talking to me because they want to. I don't even like being called Mister or Sir. It really makes me feel weird if someone says something like that me. I'm not "better" or "above" them. Honestly, I'd rather a waited called me "Hey you there." all night than "Sir". :p But oh well, we're a very "we're all equal" kinda country so I guess that's why I feel that way about it. We do have a formal way of addressing someone (You becomes De instead of du.) but I've never used it in my life. The only time I know to use it is if I'm ever to meet the royal family.. And what's the chance of that happening? :)
+Gnawer Shreth "Sie" is used when you are talking to a stranger, for example on the street, when you talk to your boss, when you talk to your teacher in middle or high school. If you worked some years in the company, the boss maybe will ask you sometimes, whether you want to say "du" to him. when he doesnt, it could be sign that he strictly want to seperate privat and office live, other bosses want that the company is like a big family. there are often situations when you can use "sie", its not useless.
in berlin its normal to say "du" to everyone. its just in the job to say "Sie", but most companies use "du" to talk with the boss. but be care, the boss decide if "du" or "Sie". if you talk to the police its better (or polite) to say "Sie", especially if you are a tourist. But most german say "du". we have a lot of foreigner in berlin and they have problems with "du" and "Sie", thats why most of them use "du".
Ich habe selbst schon das ein oder andere Problem wegen "Du" und "Sie" erlebt oder mitbekommen. Z.B. tue ich mich selbst sehr schwer damit ältere Personen oder Autoritäten zu duzen, selbst wenn es mir angeboten wird. So haben mir die Eltern meines Exfreundes (als wir noch zusammen waren duh) nach etwa einem 3/4 Jahr das Du angeboten (also das ich sie duzen darf, sie haben mich von Anfang an geduzt) nach drei Jahren ging die Beziehung auseinander und ich hatte mich bis dahin (und danach natürlich erstrecht nicht) getraut seine Eltern tatsächlich zu duzen. Ebenso sieze ich einen ehemaligen Lehrer von mir immer noch, obwohl ich ihn schon seit über 8 Jahren kenne, schon seit 5 Jahren aus der Schule raus bin, er mir schon lange das Du angeboten hat und wir gute Freunde sind. Eine Regel des "Du" ist (zumindest da wo ich her komme), dass es nur von dem jeweils älteren angeboten werden kann. Ein DU, dass einem unter Einfluss von Alkohol angeboten wurde, zählt erst dann, wenn diese Person im Nüchternen zustand ein, von einem selbst gesagtes SIE in ein DU korrigiert und somit das DU erneut legitimiert. Eine weitere Regel ist, dass man ab 18 gesiezt werden sollte (von jüngeren aber auch von älteren). Dies wurde für eine Freundin von mir zu einem Problem, da sie (als sie 18 geworden war) von einigen älteren nicht gesiezt wurde und dies wirklich schlimm fand. Das ihre Lehrer sie nicht mit sie anredeten war ok, da entweder alle Schüler kollektiv mit du oder sie angeredet werden. Aber als ein Polizist sie mit du anredete und auch nach ausdrücklicher Aufforderung dies zu unterlassen fortfuhr, gerieten beide tatsächlich in Streit deswegen, da sie dann im Gegenzug anfing den Polizisten zu duzen. Natürlich ist das eine völlig bescheuerte Aktion gewesen, die damit endete, dass die Sache auf dem Revier ausdiskutiert werden musste aber für manche ist es eine unglaubliche Unverschämtheit, wenn sie einfach mit DU angeredet werden. Natürlich ist das nicht nur von Region zu Region unterschiedlich sondern auch von Mensch zu Mensch. Manche nehmen es einem auch übel, wenn man sie siezt, da sie sich dann alt fühlen und von manchen fängt man sich eine, wenn man es wagt sie unaufgefordert zu duzen. Mir ist es eigentlich ziemlich egal ob ich geduzt oder gesiezt werde, solange man freundlich mit mir redet ist alles gut.
Thou - Du Thou art good at English = Du bist gut in Englisch Thee - Dich/Dir I gave thee a sandwich = Ich gab dir ein Butterbrot I love thee = Ich liebe dich Thy (Vor einem Konsonant)- Dein Thy life = Dein Leben Thine (vor einem Vokal oder "H") - Dein Thine heart = Dein Herz ("Mine" kann auch vor einem Vokal oder "H" benutzt werden, um "mein" zu bedeuten) Mine apple = Mein Apfel Thyself - Du/dich/dir selbst Thou knowest thyself - Du kennst dich selbst Tätigkeitswörter - ein "est" oder " 'st" hinzufügen, selbst in der Vorgangenheit Thou lovest thine hound = Du liebst deinen Hund Thou loved'st thy wife - Du liebtest dein Eheweib Unregelmäßige Tätigkeitswörter: Modal - Thou shouldst, thou shalt, thou wilt = Du solltest, du sollst/wirst, du wirst Have - Thou hast = Du hast Be - Thou art = Du bist, thou wast/wert = Du warst, Thou wert = du wärest Ye - Ihr You - Euch - (Iren machen diesen Fehler sehr oft) Your - Euer - (Iren sagen manchmal "Yer", um das zu sagen, aber das ist laut mir falsch) Yourselves - Ihr/euch selbst Tätigkeitswörter funktionieren genau wie "You". Ye are good at German = Ihr seid gut in Deutsch Ye did it, did ye not? = Ihr habt es getan, oder? Der Imperativ ist gleich Do it, thou swine! = Tu(e) es, du Schwein! Do it, ye good men! = Tut es, ihr gute Männer! Do it, you noble lord! = Tun Sie es, Sie herrlicher Herr! Ich habe zu viel Zeit damit verbracht.
My mother comes from a german colony in russia (and therefor spoke german) and she used to address my grandmother with "ihr". "Oma habt ihr gut geschlafen?" It is also still common in some swabian parts. You can also hear in historical movies that kings speak to normal people by using "er" or "sie". "Hat er gedient?" So as if he would not talk to him directly. I also like the old english forms which are so close to german.
+mkmm60 "Hat er gedient?" ("Did he serve [as a soldier]?") is a classical, and certainly not very polite, but pretty arrogant and somehow pre-democratic. .
+SiggiNebel Mh, I would have to disagree. In some parts of Germany adressing someone directly in third person is quite common, as a way to avoid the whole "du-Sie-Thing"
+mkmm60 yep, Relatives older than oneself used to be (approx 100 years ago) addressed the formal way.
6 лет назад
"in some parts" [citation needed] I'm willing to believe that if you supply proof/links, because I have *never* heard of this. Not to be confused with mannerisms like "Und, wie geht's uns heute" (second person plural) which a doctor might say to a frequent (non-hypochondriac) patient.
Slight objection with what you say at 1:35. You probably meant that with a grain of salt but of course German speakers didn't change the spelling of sie in order to change it's meaning in spoken languge .It was the other way round. The meaning in spoken language changed first and later spelling began to distinguish Sie from sie.
actually using the formal form can also be insulting in some situations. The formal form implies distance. Since it is unpolite, to impose unwanted closeness on someone, it is saver, to start on formal. But if you are close to somebody, and you suddenly switch to the formal form, the other one might wonder, what went wrong in the relationship.
The "Sie" to formally addressing someone appears about the same time, when "Er" was used to address a subordinate. King Frederick the Great, called Old Fritz, would have demanded: "Sage Er sofort Ihro Königliche Majestät zu Uns!"
Made the mistake of using Du once they guy just walked away from me, lesson learned the hard way and I still kick myself for it. A good reminder to not do it again in any such language of this type. Good video Ich Danke Sie
+ewig Kase "Ich danke Sie" - this reminds me of one of the stories about a German football player (that is, raised in Germany, but with Dutch nationality) known as "Ente" (duck) Lippens, actually a football legend. In one match, the referee thought that Lippens had committed a foul and went over to him saying: "Ich verwarne Ihnen!" ("I reprimand you") but he made a grammatical mistake, as he should have said "Sie" instead of "Ihnen". Lippens replied: "Ich danke Sie!"
Formerly, "Er" was used instead of "Sie"/"Ihr" to address people who were considered to have a lower social status (e.g. a lord talking to his coachmman). If you talk to small children or if you want to be ironic, you can also use "wir". So in principle, you can translate "you" with any personal pronoun you want, depending on the context (exept for "ich"). du = you (informal, one person), Er = you (formal to address people of a lower social class, not any more in use), wir = you (ironic), Ihr = you (formal, not in use anymore), Sie = you (formal).
I think most Germans are quite tolerant if language learners muddle up their "du"s and "Sie"s. As long as a person is trying, it's fine. I hardly ever use "Sie". My older neighbor and officials mostly. Or salespeople in shops. My colleagues and boss and many of my customers are "du". But I usually "Sieze" new customers and then they very often say "uh, let's use "du".
I'm almost 30 and still find it strange when people use Sie while talking to me. Especially if they are younger than me I feel really old, so I normally tell them instantly to use du. XD (Of course there are situations like with officials, where it is completely normal to use Sie.) By the way even teachers have to use Sie with their pupils when they tum 18 and adress them with Sie and the first name which I still find quite amusing. Using Sie can also be a bit strange, because being polite always has the feeling of distance. Therefore, if you use it, you candistance yourself from the person you're talking to, so e.g. if you have to deal with a molester (Though I hope that will never happen to you), use Sie, bacause if you use du, the people around you will think you are just freinds/couple fighting and are more unlikely to help.
+yoshiiinblack ich bin gerade in der Ausbildung und naja manche Kollegen in der Praxis bieten einen sofort das du an bei anderen geöhnt sich auch daran zu siezen. Bei den Lehrern kenn ich es nur ganz oder gar nicht also mit den Nachnamen meistens noch mit der Anrede Herr oder Frau wenn der Name gennat wird
There are several more finer points worth mentioning. For example, when you walk along the street and there are 5 to 10 police officers just doing their job, struggeling with something (with a few of these always standing around building a perimeter), it is no problem, to pass them with a friendly smile and say something like "Na, da hat man Euch ja auch mal wieder einen besonders schwierigen Fall aufgehalst, wa?" - They wouldn't mind the informal form in that case, just because they are also human beings and would probably at this moment enjoy joking around with any friendly passerby more than their actual assignment. And another thing worth mentioning is that in the GDR, the informal form was much more common than the formal form. So at first, everyone was "per Du", while only persons of authority requested the "Sie" by using it on other persons. And this was the point where using the formal form *could* also be taken as an insult! So especially with people who lived during that time and experienced it, using the formal form at first is less of a problem than the other way around.
+Seegal Galguntijak In socialist and communist parties, the informal form + "comrade" was obliging anyway, and using the formal form of address came very close to blaming someone to be a traitor of the cause.
"Na, da hat man Euch ja auch mal wieder einen besonders schwierigen Fall aufgehalst, wa?" was soll denn an diesem Satz informell sein? der Satz ist völlig korrekt, denn 'Euch' bezeichnet eine Mehrzahl von Leuten. "Na, da hat man Ihnen ja auch mal wieder einen besonders schwierigen Fall aufgehalst, wa?" wäre dann richtig, wenn sich der Satz an eine einzelne Person richten würde.
One more "form" of this is the combination of the formal "Sie" with the first name of the person addressed. A rather popular example is that of former German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt and former U.S Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, wo addressed each ather using first names, but the formal Sie "out of respect for each other", even though they had been friends for many decades. This form of usage is quite popular amongst younger people in business situations, but generally regarded as anything from rather awkward to outright wrong. The (at least historically) correct form would be either the combination of the last name and Sie, or the first name and Du. As in: "Kommen Sie bitte herein, Herr Müller", or "Du hast ein schönes Hemd, Kurt". As for capitals, in addressing a person directly in a letter (or email), the capital is used. This may not be the current spelling rule (is it?), but it still is widely in use and expected.
+Thomas Bögel There's one more and I come across it frequently. Using the informal "du" and the last name without prefix like "Herr" or "Frau" as a form of address is common at some workplaces. It seems to be a way of address that is equidistant between formal and informal.
+Thomas Bögel It's called the Hamburger Sie, while the opposite is called the Münchner Du. The Hamburger Sie seems to be used by some parents to adress the adult friends of their children. To me it sounds like something posh people do. Mark-Evander, reichen Sie mir mal bitte den Dom Pérignon?
+Thomas Bögel Depends on the social situation. "Du, Meier" was common among pupils of a class, but has fallen in disuse recently. I think English (still) does it in the school, work or military situation among people of the same rank as well (Not with thou, of course, but addressing people by their last name alone: "Smith, pass me that thingamajigger!") I recently learned that it's also prevalent in Danish, which may spill over in English usage of the Danish.
Ich erinner mich mit Freuden an den Hösbacher Bauern, der, weil er sich nicht sicher war, wie er mich ansprechen sollte, einfach so tat, als wäre ich mehrere. Und konsequent "ihr" sagte. Sein Problem: Ich war deutlich jünger und sprach den örtlichen Dialekt - er hätte mich problemlos duzen können. Aber: ich hatte ein Würzburger Kennzeichen und er wußte nicht, zu welcher Familie ich gehöre. Schwierig... als ging er auf Nummer Sicher.
+Baccatube79 Er hielt dich sicher nicht für eine multiple Persönlichkeit, sondern hielt es nur für unhöflich, dich einfach zu duzen, aber ihm schien, dass dein sozialer Rang es nicht erforderlich machte, dich zu siezen.
Spain and the Spanish-speaking countries of South America also have an interesting history of their second person pronouns (tú/usted/vosotros/vos), and their usage varies widely from country to country nowadays. The Swedish language (and I think the other Northern Germanic languages as well, but I'm not sure) lost a lot of its grammatical baggage, including the formal ‘ni’ (second person plural, but formerly also formal second person singular). People even address the king as ‘du’ nowadays.
Just keep in mind: It's always easy to go from Sie to Du, but there is no peaceful way back... (except both of you were so drunk, that you both agree to cancel your new friendship for the sake of professionalism the next morning)
Haven't read all comments so maybe it is a doublicate: Here in the South West Bade (Freiburg, Offenburg) it is quite common to use the informal plural form 'ihr' when talking to many people, also if each single person of these would have been addressed with the formal 'sie'. But no one would worry about if you use 'sie' in both singular and plural, like in standard German.
I like the "Hamburger Sie" and the "Münchener Du" versions, they are not called so because of their spreading area but because Hamburg and Munich are the opposite ends of germany. You usualy use "Sie" when you adress somebody using his lastname "Herr Bossom, könnten Sie mir bitte die Tür aufhalten?" while you use "du" when you use the first name "Andrew, kannst du mir bitte die Tür aufhalten?". But the "Hamburger Sie" works by combining first name and formal "Sie" to "Andrew, können sie mir bitte die Tür aufhalten?" and the "Münchener Du" uses last name and informal "du" resulting in "Bossom, kannst du mir bitte die Tür aufhalten?"
What you could have added (but it's related to the youth) is that on the Internet almost everybody is using the informal form. You won't find a lot of RUclips/Reddit/Facebook comments or whatever using the polite one.
Swedish has gone through its changes too since the 60's-70's. We use "du" to address everybody regardless of rank - perhaps not the royals. Thet are are mostly addressed by title. But strangely the formal "ni" has become popular with younger people to address customers. Which I cannot understand. Even the older people think that is too displaced and even annoying. Must be foreign influence.
Fun fact: The third person had been in use to adress people of notably lower rank in earlier times like in the 18th century. "Hebe er sich hinfort!" Nowadays it's the polite form... of course only in plural.
As a official I can say in some situation you just ignore the du but only if it is not intended as an insult. That can happen because some people use du just for for everyone cause of there dialect
First thing waht came to my mind is the assumed HElmut Kohl QUote : you can say you to me. If your are unsure in german if you should say DU or SIE, use SIE, if it is a person wich is much older then you defintly SIE, till they say DU, strangers SIE, and if not sure at all just ask. Germans don't bite. Just ask if you can use the DU, because it will be easier for you. normaly the most agree and say it is totaly ok.
The "polite" form expresses distance, switching to it in a conversation can also express that you really don't want to have anything to do with the other person any more. In many workplaces, "du" is used among colleagues of the same level, whereas you address your boss as "Sie" and your boss will also call you "Sie". In some political parties it's common to use "du" to members of the same party. Same goes for many subcultures.
I unfortunately still haven't gotten around speaking to German authorities, using "du" and then insisting on that, as a danish resident, any formal form is reserved for monarchs.
etvdzs Sort of. German is basically everyones third language, so lots of people will somewhat understand you if you speak German, especially if you're in Nordschleswig (the part of Denmark that used to be German until WWI). Nordschleswig is also the region where most first-language German speakers live, although these people are getting rare as the younger generations shift more and more towards Danish, for practical reasons.
+T³ Tips Tricks Tests So there was some kind of government initiative to get people to stop using the formal pronouns? That sounds slightly bizarre ^^ What was seen as being the benefit of such a change?
Actually, on social media, since i am there full named, I use the formal form when I talk to strangers. Just as I would in real life. But it's true that many people don't. But even on youtube, I sometimes use the formal form, when I reply to someone where i think, that he said something very stupid.
Speireata4 GT´s video actually made me play Minecraft again. a small tip: for every year u havent played the game, plan half an hour for the upates to download. seriously, from now on, i start this game twice a year, if just to get the updates.
Maybe is there actually a (modern) way of talking informal or formal to someone in english. I think maybe for example if you say "Mr. Bond" you are using the formal form. If you say "James" it is the informal form. If 007 says "Call me James" he is inviting you to use the informal form. Informal talking english: talk normally Formal talking english: talk normally + add Mr. Bond (or whatever) at the end. Is this somewhat correct?
+Riccardo Vigato Sure, there are various ways of expressing formality or respect for the person you are speaking to, for example by addressing someone as "sir" or "Mr. Bond" instead of "James". But modern English doesn't have different words for "you" and "your" depending on the level of formality (except possibly in certain dialects).
@@etvdzs English speakers are much more prone to address someone informally ("James") than German speakers. This results in awkward situations in translations of TV series and movies, where in the English original two people call one another by their first names plus "you" at their first meeting, which is correctly translated into "Herr/Frau last name" plus "Sie" in German. As the story goes on the two develop feelings and become a couple, which can be a smooth transition in English without a need of changing the way they refer to each other. But if the translators started out with "Sie" in German, they have to "suddenly" make a cut and switch to "du" without any in-story explanation.
+etvdzs ist called HAmburger Sie, It is if you call someone by his or her firstname but still say "Sie" . Ist used if y normal DU would be to intimited and full formale Sie with lastname would be to formel. Ther is also a form using the last name and DU. mostly used ine way from bosses to lower workers, or teachers to students (wich are over 18 and has to be called "Sie" but the firstnames are easier.
Ich liebe dich ... So when else do you use "dich" for "you"? Is "dir" used same as "du"? Also "ihnen" can mean "to you" Fluent speakers know instinctively which one to use, but learning from scratch can be confusing.
In English there's direct and indirect objects. The "you" in "I love you" is a direct object, equivalent to accusative case "dich", whereas the "you" in "I gave you my number" is an indirect object, equivalent to dative case "dir". "Du" can only be a sentence's subject, as it is nominative case, as in "You are nice."
Hey rewboss, you videos are very entertaining and engaging! I have a question about German, I was curious why most nouns are capitalized? Keep up the great work!
Dutch has something weird going on as well. There is the usual formal and informal, but there is also the 'familiar' form which is only preserved in Flemish Dutch. Dutch people will often get confused as to why Flemish people are being overly polite suddenly, because some conjugations look like the formal form. Instead it's actually not being polite at all, and people using the familiar form in public some 60 years ago used to be seen as uncivilized peasants with a poor understanding of etiquette.
If you talk to sb. you address by his 1st name (Cornelius), you use "du". If you talk to sb. you address by his families name (Mr. Schwarzenstein), you use "Sie".
i use "du" all the time. i dont like people who use the formal language. thats also what i love so much about the english language, there isnt this annoying difference
I recently found an interesting explanation for the use of the plural form to address people politetly: the Roman emperors used to call themselves "nos" (we) and thus were addressed "vos" (you, pl.), which was adopted by medieval kings in official documents and translated it into their native languages and made it "popular". That might be an explanation for this phenomenon being relatively widespread among European languages.
+IrgendSoEinKanal Makes sense. Cologne was once upon a time inhabited by Romans and the Cologne dialect (Kölsch (not the beer)) still uses "you pl." and "we" to this day. So maybe there is something to it.
+CologneCarter This is ertainly no linguistic remainder of Roman times. The Romans knew no difference of formal and informal adressing and said "tu", no matter if adressing a slave or the emperor.
I was really confused a couple years back when I was in the city of Fürstenwalde (east of Berlin) and talked to a concierge in an office building. He always addressed me with "Er" and I thought he was making fun of me.
Ich halte es für sehr wichtig die höflichen Formen (auch "Ihr") großzuschreiben. So lässt sich das besser unterscheiden, auch wenn es sich häufig im Kontext ergibt. Ich hasse es wenn Leute mich auf der Straße einfach mit "du" ansprechen. Wenn es Kinder sind mag das noch gehen, aber irgendwo muss man denn auch den Schlussstrich ziehen und mit dem Siezen beginnen. Ich hasse dieses generelle Duzen, sei es nun auf Arbeit oder auf der Straße, sowieso und ganz besonders wenn ich mit jemanden auf Kriegsfuß bin. Wenn ich jemanden duze, dann ist das doch was besonderes. Wenn ich jemanden (selbstverständlich nach Absprache) duze, dann bin ich ihm mindestens so freundlich gesonnen, dass ich das zulasse. Duzen und Siezen sind mehr als nur Formalitäten, es sind Gesten die zeigen wie nah ich jemanden an mir ranlasse. Interessant finde ich es jedoch, dass ich es schon gehabt habe, dass Leute angepisst waren, dass ich zu ihnen im normalen Ton mit "Se" wie in "Könn'n Se mir ma' bidde dat Blatt reich'n" anstatt "Sie" gesprochen habe. Haben die etwas gegen norddeutsche Akkzente, Mundarten, Dialekte und Sprachen?
+kilésengati Mir geht's umgekehrt. Ich hoffe, dass ich es noch erleben werden, dass das "Sie" auf der Strasse ausstirbt. (Mit Ämtern wohl eher nicht.) Zum "Se": Da kommt das Abrutschen der Deutschen Dialekte in den Soziolekt zum Tragen. Für viele wird die Verwendung von Dialekt in formellen Situationen zum Affront. (Im Süden Gott sei Dank noch nicht.)
Also ich komme aus dem Ruhrgebiet und hier sind die Leute sehr offen was das betrifft. Klar siezt man sich hier auch, aber es kommt doch ziemlich häufig vor, dass sich wildfremde Erwachsene in willkürlich begonnen Gesprächen direkt duzen, ohne dass sich einer der beteiligten beleidigt, oder unhöflich behandelt fühlt. Und ich finde das auch viel sympathischer, als anderen Menschen gegenüber immer so steif und verklemmt zu sein. Es bricht sich doch niemand 'nen Zacken aus der Krone, wenn er mal von Fremden geduzt wird!? :) Ich mein, es gibt natürlich Situationen in denen wirklich die Höflichkeitsform angebracht ist, aber sie immer und überall von jedem Fremden ausnahmslos einzufordern, finde ich doch ganz schön übertrieben
Oh man.... "sie" is she and "Sie" is you and "sie" used to be "they"? I've been learning German for about a week and a half now and it's starting to get overwhelming.... Like 150 flashcards in one week, a teacher who only speaks in German and fully German textbook sort of overwhelming.... But I love this language and love learning it and hope to learn it very well eventually! For now, I can't say very much hah! And I have no one to practice with....
+WrinkleinTime42 "And I have no one to practice with...." I'd be glad to answer some questions you have or have a conversation in written form if time allows assuming you are still learning german. My english could be better aswell so we might both benefit.
This isn't true: after all, in every other case we simply replaced "þ" with "th". You're thinking of the way we sometimes imitate old-fashioned language by writing things like "Ye Olde Tea Shoppe" because _modern_ signwriters can't tell the difference between "þ" and "y", but that's not what happened with "thou". Rather, it was social changes that happened in southern England around the 17th century that caused "thou" to disappear: "thou" was associated with the lower classes and started to be considered rude, while "you" was thought to be more polite, especially with the rise of the middle classes; as always with things like this, it changed first in the spoken language before it changed in the written language. And because southern English dialects heavily influenced the standard dialect, we now have only "you" in the standard language. But "thou" (or, more usually, "tha") still exists in spoken dialects in the Midlands and the north of England, especially Yorkshire.
In some bad dubbed Hollywood movies or series you can watch, how characters name each other with the first name, but use the formal 'Sie'. This is very uncommon. Either we name each other with the first name and use the informal 'du' or we name our opponent Herr/Frau titel/Lastname and use the 'Sie'. The only situation I can imagine, where this can happen, would be in the countryside where an old farmered used 'du' all his lifetime, maybe due to his dialect, and than visit a Doctor. The doctor is a person to respect. So he uses Herr or Frau Doktor, but due to his dialect he uses 'du'. However it would be very exotic.
+Sebastian Böhm Adressing people with a formal "Sie" and the first name is quite common in schools, where teachers have to adress older students formally, but are so familiar with them, that it would be pretty weird to change to using the last name. On the other hand there are workplaces I have been working at, where it is common to be addressed by ones last name without "Herr" and the informal "du". Like: "Böhm, räum zusammen, gleich ist Feierabend." In return, you will address your boss using the formal "Sie".
I study German at the Goethe Institute, And I must admit I found it strange when my teacher [Who is German] told me to address him as 'Du'. For some reason I found this rather awkward and I don't know if I insulted him by refusing to do so. But I insisted on referring to him as 'Sie' and speaking to him in formal form until the semester was complete. What I found equally strange is that he asked me if he could refer to me informally as 'Du' and I responded with 'Naturlich, Ich bin ihr Student' And I explained the reason why was I needed to get used to addressing superiors and people I hardly know in formal speech, which admittingly I did not have alot of practice in, especially since ettiquette in Germany is rather important. Still, I can't help but to wonder if I did the wrong thing or insulted him in some way.
+DC Frank Yes, this is something I feel strongly about too :) German teachers in my experience invariably want to address and be addressed by their students as 'Du'. I realise this may make the _teachers_ feel more comfortable, but it puts their students at a disadvantage when they go out into the real world without having had any practice using the 'Sie' form.
+DC Frank That's not considered acceptable among adults. Asymmetric use of the formal is OK from grownups towards children, but not at an age where you are supposed to use "Sie" without another agreement. You either both use "Sie" or both "du". (It's considered elitist.)
+HotelPapa100 If this was in a classroom situation, then I can understand that it might be taxing for the teacher to have to remember to address one student as 'Sie' but all the others as 'Du'. But if it was one-on-one tuition, then I agree that the teacher should have accepted the student's preference for 'Sie' and not insisted upon replying with 'Du'.
+etvdzs Dunno what that has to do with my statement. I simply wanted to point out that the asymmetric Du/ Sie situation, as DC Frank proposed, is not acceptable. Especially in a a teacher/student situation among adults.
+HotelPapa100 The asymmetric Du/Sie situation came about after the student explained that they preferred to use 'Sie' (for perfectly valid reasons), but the teacher apparently insisted on replying with 'Du' anyway. The only justification I can think of for this is if it was a classroom situation, where it could be confusing for the teacher and the other students to have to address just one person in the room as 'Sie'. Otherwise it seems like plain selfishness on the teacher's part. But maybe I'm missing part of the story.
One must not forget that the English you does not decline for case while the German words do. This raises the number up even more: du, dich, dir, ihr, euch, Sie, Ihnen all translate to you in English, raising the number to 7 German words for you!
+Adam 9812 This is acusative. Possessive would be I/my, you/your. As it occurs, the accusativ and the nominative of "you" are alike in English. In German, the nominativ and the accusative of nouns is always identical, ny the way, and only the articles and the adjectives may have different forms in both cases. (And in all Indoeuropean languages which haven't lost the neuter gender, the neuter accusative formsare alway identical with the nominative form.)
Adam 9812 You're right , of course. My problem is that I never learned the rules very well - and I find them quite confusing , too. What's even more confusing: is that you can say (in nominative) both "Drache" as "Drachen" (but "ein Drache" is always a dragon and never a kite). People start to ignore the rules of weak declination more and more and even thoughthis is still a mistake, it might vanish within the next 50 years, just as the "-e" for dative ("dem Manne") has disappeared.
I assume that "Sie" as a polite form was taken over from Italian ("Lei"). In some rural areas of Gernan, "du", "Ihr" (written with capital I, I'd say) and "Sie" coexist in a way, that you're maybe addressed as "Ihr", if you seem to be fairly respectable, but just not respectable enough to deserve the even more formal "Sie".
Funny thing is: I've seen Germans use the formal form in RUclips comments specifically to be impolite. Makes a weird kind of sense. You're distancing yourself from the person you're addressing.
BTW Italian also 'decided' that using the plural/singular 2' was not 'good enough'... Or saying otherwise given that the 2'person-plural/singular was used by the fascist regime... Italian decided to go back and use the 'standard' 3-person...
Here are some phrases you should say to a German police officer if you want to spend a night in jail: "Du hast doch wohl einen Vogel!" "Was bist du denn für ein Streifenhörnchen?" "Du solltest mal zum Psychiater." Combine these three in a row, and you'll also pay a hefty fine for insult. I'm sure rewboss will soon explain why we sometimes call police officers squirrels.
+Eisi Kater Die Würde der der Polizei ist unantastbar. Sie zu achten und zu schützen ist Verpflichtung aller staatlichen Gewalt. In Germany, you hardly will be tried for insult, but if you insult a policeman, every persecutor will be very keen to not let you get away unpunished.
HotelPapa100 Which reminds me of an old joke. Allegedly, at least this is believed in Germany, the Swiss call a condom "Verhüterli" [about:"small contracepter"], and there had been a number of "Verhüterli" jokes some decades ago. Here's one of them: A Swiss pharmacist is being called on the phone. The caller asks "Do you sell Verhüterli?" "Yes, of course, we do." "Have you got them in different colours?" "Yes, of course we do." "Have you also got pink ones?" "Yes, of course, we do." "Well, shove one up your arse!", and the caller hangs up. Three weeks later, a police car stops in front of this pharamcy and a policeman enters. "Grüezi," he says to the pharmacist,"I have to inform you that you fell prey to a deceiver. You may take out that Verhüterli again."
Great video, but still one of my main problems with the english language. For example: *Case one* - You "rewboss" make good videos, so I say: "I like your videos!" = No problem *Case two* - More than one person makes videos on one channel (example DangerDolan) and I want to write a nice comment for *all* the people who make videos on that channel, but everyone makes his own videos. So If I post a comment like: "I like your videos!" below, they don't know if I'm talking to *all* of them or only to the person who made that particular video. Is there an easy solution? Do I have to write: I like the videos from each of you? Might be a strange question, but it's a real problem for somebody who grew up with "Du" and "Sie". :)
+Qisou Informal, but you can use the dixie (southern US) form of "y'all". In the south that's sometimes taken to the extreme, taking the form of "all y'all".
+Qisou This is one of the things I have always found slightly unsatisfactory about English, even before I learned German. The presence of plural forms of 'you' in certain English dialects -- such as "youse" and "y'all" -- suggests that I'm not alone in feeling this way ^^ In the particular case you mentioned, I would probably dodge and write something like: "I like all the videos on this channel". Or even: "Thanks [insert names of each of the video makers here] for your videos. I like them a lot!" For me, the phrase "I like the videos of each of you" sounds clunky and pedantic, more like something that you would read in a software instruction manual than a RUclips comment ;)
+etvdzs That's always interesting to hear people complain about their own language, even though I've done it myself. What I always found frustrating about German, even before learning English - despite German being my native language - was that when we say a number like twenty-four, we always say the second digit before the first one (in German "Vierundzwanzig"; - literally translated: "four and twenty"). That being said, it was still weird switching that whole thing around when learning English and saying the first digit in a number before the second one :-) Nowadays, what I really hate about German, is its reliance on grammatical gender, since I've always liked the absence of grammatical genders in English, since they just seem unnecessary and impractical. (Also we do not have a gender-neutral pronoun in German, whereas in English, "they" is starting to more and more catch on as a pronoun for said usage, alongside its current usage when talking about multiple people)
+Swiss Man 18 Yes, the German system of counting certainly takes a bit of getting used to ;) I used to get mixed up a lot and say things like "das Erstundzwanzige" instead of "das Einundzwanzigste".The lack of a gender-neutral pronoun certainly creates its challenges, although I suppose in certain situations you can dodge and say "man" or "jemand". _Grammatical_ gender on the other hand is something that for me at least adds colour to the language. A technical email about a Spooldatei and a Druckertreiber becomes much more vivid when I can think about the former being a woman (or at least a female entity) and the latter being a man :) But I'm not sure whether it comes across that way for native speakers.
etvdzs Well, honestly as a native speaker you tend to not really think of anything your language does is wrong. But I've seen people trying to learn German, and when they say they struggle with something more than you'd think as a native speaker, it's obvious that it's particularly hard for some people to learn. Like when someone first pointed out, that German had SIXTEEN different words for "the" (3 genders plus the plural times the four cases), I honestly thought to myself: "How the hell did I learn all this?!" xD
probably, even in English one would not say "you" to a police man - especially if he is going to write you a ticket ---- "duat ma laat hea inschbekda owa dafau~ waas i nigs ..." (just a quote)
Always interesting and educational presentations here! You are both educational and entertaining! Google Translate: "Sie sind sowohl lehrreich und unterhaltsam!"
downhill240 Didn't mean to be an annoying smart ass, it just... itches when I see something like that. If someone goes to all the trouble to post a sentence in german. they should at least be given a correct one. :)
No problem! I've alway suspected that the translations available are pretty much garbled. I also know that many countries are multi-language capable unlike America. At least the part I live in! LOL
downhill240 At least this one was still understandable! Try to find a random Video in another language and turn on the translated RUclips subtitles. It's often funny, but hardly ever coherent.^^ I thought there was a big part of the US where most people speak both american english as well as at least some spanish? Anyways, I think english is rather widely spread,and while I like keeping different languages, dialects etc alive, having a common language to communicate is getting ever more important.
Ja, manchmal ist es wirklich schwierig zu wissen, ob man jemanden duzen oder siezen soll. Meistens sieze ich die Leute in unserem German Club, bis jetzt bin ich aber fast nur geduzt worden. Darf ich die Leute wirklich so ohne Weiteres duzen? Ich bin zwar selbst nicht mehr der Jüngste, aber die meisten Leute dort sind ungefähr zweimal so alt wie ich ^^
+etvdzs Bei großem Altersunterschied warte ich auch immer, bis die ältere Person mir das Du anbietet. Da hat sich in den letzten Jahrzehnten viel geändert, aber das ist halt nicht bei den älteren Generationen so angekommen. Gleichaltrige und Jüngere duze ich in der Regel, außer in Behörden oder so.
+Ninchennase Danke für die Antwort! Manchmal glaube ich, dass Deutschsprachige, die seit Jahrzehnten im Ausland leben, das Siezen langsam verlernen, wenn sie die Sprache nur mit Freunden und Verwandten reden. Ein Schweizer, den ich hier kenne, hat mir in diesem Zusammenhang einmal gesagt: "Ich kann das nicht". Naja, ich glaube, ich bleibe erstmal beim Sie, auch wenn das sich manchmal ein bisschen aufgesetzt anfühlt ^^
+etvdzs In Sportvereinen und Clubs ist es in Deutschland meistens üblich, sich automatisch zu duzen. Als Trainer ignoriere ich es sogar häufig, wenn einer meiner Schüler mich siezt. Das gleiche gilt für Studenten an der Universität. Selbst, wenn ich ihr Tutor bin, lasse ich mich nicht siezen. Entgegen dem, was rewboss hier sagt, kann es für manche Leute durchaus auch beleidigend erscheinen, wenn du formell bist, obwohl dafür keine Notwendigkeit besteht, weil es den Eindruck erwecken kann, dass du mit jemandem eigentlich nichts zu tun haben möchtest... In der Regel ist siezen aber tatsächlich sicherer.
@@riflemanm16a2 There's the tongue-in-cheek rule that there's no "Sie" above 1000m above sea level. 1. The use of formal/polite "Sie" is much less frequent in rural areas and guess what... the mountainous areas happen to be more rural. 2. "Sie" is used to establish or maintain a "hierarchical distance" as a token of politeness due to age or social status, while using "du" is a sign of overall closeness, friendship, comradeship, equality. So there clearly is a difference in status with your boss (which would ask for using "Sie"), but the use of "du" could be possible if the high-ranking one wants to establish a feeling of "we are in this together". When you are climbing a mountain and share a (more or less) exhausting experience, there's no hierarchy. The mountain is as steep and as high for any one, regardless of their education, income, job position. Since you are "in this together", "du" is (once more) appropriate above 1000m.
My former landlord addressed me as "Er" Seems to be a regional thing Though, historically both "er" and "Sie" were used. It didn't just suddenly come out of nowhere.
+Merrsharr I only remember "Er" beeing used by royals speaking to a guy of the common folk or someone of lesser importance ... i would consider it quite rude nowadays even tho it might be perfectly fine since I am not an expert with that. I usualy just use "Sie"
"er" itself is a common word to use it's just rare in terms of adressing someone directly . Since it's just "he" you normaly use it to adress a guy you mentioned before but not the guy you are talking to... Which is probably the reason why i think it's rude because you don't address someone you are speaking to like you are talking to someone else about him. but yea royals and their 3rd person speech let's u think that all the time anyway "he of whom I don't know the name of shall speak now!" "Er dessen Namen ich nicht kenne soll nun sprechen !" "who? what? I?! wait no you should know my name... who are you talking to damn it ?!"
+Merrsharr My god, in which century your former landlord was born? I thought this way of takling had died out about 150 years ago. It seems to me that adressing someone else as "er/Er" or (female) "sie/Sie" was in a way ambiguous, and could be as well meant respectul (with capitals) or rather disrespectful, if not rude, especially when being combined with "der Kerl" ("Der Kerl ist impertinent, halte er seinen Mund!"), or "das Weib".
Interestingly, using the formal form in tge internet makes someone look waymore informal to me because he i seitger some adult who never used the internet, or dumb
Ich finde es angemessen von Fremden und Jüngeren mit "Sie" angesprochen zu werden. Ausnahme wäre eine Person, die nicht richtig deutsch kann. Meine Eltern mussten ihre Eltern mit "ihr" ansprechen. Das habe auch ich bei meinen Großeltern getan und es ist mir kein Zacken aus der Krone gefallen. Im Gegenteil, ich finde es respektlos, wenn einen jüngere oder fremde Personen einfach duzen.
In reading the Luther Bible, I discovered to my surprise that the "du" was used when addressing God/Christ, being that God is our supreme authority. I then got to reasoning that due to the necessity of one's having a personal relationship with God (through Jesus Christ), it makes sense to address God in the familiar or informal way. Andrew even explained that, from a theological perspective, we are to call on God as our "Daddy" (Abba), indicating the use of the informal/familiar.
In german middle ages addressing persons of a higher rank with plural they couldnt use just only ihr when saying: I see you. they had to use euch: Ich sehe euch, but: Ihr könnt mir vertrauen. Euch is the actual cognate word of ye/you but they had (and we still have) to use both ihr and euch depending on if the adressed person is the grammatical object or subject.
that's why you gotta watch for the verb in the Sentence: „Sie *hat* ein Auto“ (She has a car) vs. „Sie *haben* ein Auto“ (You have a car/They have a car)
ghenulo Well, everyboday seems to understand. Some people also say for instance "Ameruíca" or "the States", when they mean the "United States of America", but everyone will understand, and so on and so on..
No, that was the standard way of writing "du" in letters. Before 1996, the official guidelines where that it should be capitalized. Now, capitalization is simply optional. It doesn't have any special significance, though.
It's not formal just because it's archaic. Anyhow, the same rule applied to e-mails, greetings cards, any situation where you would want to address somebody directly in written form.
A history professor of mine once explained the upcoming of "Sie" within medievil high-level language groups like nobility and/or government. Within a reception of village managers of the monarchy , so called "maier" - like the nowadays common last name - the nobility referred to the maier as "Sie", meaning the village inhabitants as a whole. For example the question "Wie geht es Ihnen?" wasn´t directed towards the maier as person but to all the inhabitants and their well-being all together.
„Euch“ ist der Dativ und der Akkusativ von „Ihr“ genau so wie „dir“ der Dativ und „dich“ der Akkusativ von „du“ sind. Also VORSICHT: *die Deutsche Sprache hat immer noch Fälle*
+LordRaiden Das "Euch" gehört zum Ihrzen soweit ich weiß, welches er auch erwähnt hat. Des Weiteren wollte er vermutlich kuriose Sonderformen wie Erzen (Nur davon gelesen, selber nie gesehen.) und weiß der Geier noch was erstmals rauslassen.
LordRaiden mit "Eure Majestät" wurde seine Majestät zwar angesprochen, das ist aber auch nur ein Wortspiel. Weil für Allerhöchstdieselben muss man ja immer ne extra Wurscht braten
![Eminem - Like My Shit [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vx_IMvFkrfA/mqdefault.jpg)
Students of German are told to use the informal form when speaking to children, animals, family and close friends"
Unless of course, the animal wears a nice suit like penguins. Always use the formal form addressing a penguin.
Thou hast done thy research
+DaneeBound
have --> hast (In English and German)
;-)
+Lunaria
Yeah and completely correct would be: "Thou hast done thine research", but whatever, no one _needs_ to know all that anymore :-)
@Lunaria and @SwissMan18
and that's why the modern Comment section lets you edit your posts (unlike Tweets)
DaneeBound
Yeah :D
+DaneeBound
Shouldn't it be "thy research"?
3:00 There've been a few court rulings on this: using "du" inappropriately does not, on its own, constitute an insult in the eyes of the law. Having said that, it is of course extremely presumptuous and you are correct to advise people against using it towards anyone in uniform.
You're watching: you, you and you
Next: sie, sie and Sie
Yep. That's how the sentence "You can say you to me" was made.
In case anyone's wondering about the archaic English "thee," it's the equivalent of the accusative and dative forms of du/Sie. "Thou" is the nominative form.
sure just the same as for I, me, my, mine goes thou, thee, thy, thine... very germanic... same in German.
I used to wonder why, in the German version of the musical Les Miserables, Fantine addresses Javert and Monsieur Madeline (Valjean's identity as her employer and mayor of Montreuil) as "ihr", and Eponine addresses Marius the same way. Now I know. Thanks.
Yes.. The pluralis majestatis is still used in first and second person... So kings, dukes, queens etc. are addressed with "Eure Majestät" and address themselves as "we" instead of I...
That's always a problem when translating movies or TV shows because people have to guess when the characters are close enough to each other to use du instead of sie. Sometimes that causes a weird feeling. I think usually when it's translated from English it is often used as an indication whether the characters use the first or last name to address each other.
Yes, definately.
Still with the formal "Sie" and then she pulls up the bed sheet, not to be seen naked 😉😆
And sometime they cut out scenes. Just introduced but you got the feeling they had met before.
Combined with formal "Sie" (or informal "Du") at wrong places it is even more weird.
Before the spelling reform for German in 1996 it was common to use capital letters for »Du« and »Sie« in informal and formal talking in any case when talking directly to someone. The spelling reform dropped the capital writing for »du«, but some people still write in the old way.
Not in talking, no: only in writing. In direct speech, it would always be written with a small initial letter. The current rules originally abolished this, but this has been changed since to make it option.
+Martin Steindl Good that you mention that :) I have one colleague who writes »Du« in emails and another who writes »du«. Do you think it's okay for me to always write »du« in my emails, or do I risk offending the person who prefers to write »Du«?
+etvdzs First of all: Rewboss is right about the rule. The rules for writing »Sie« (and »Du«) with capital letter applies for writing to a person e.g. in a letter, only. In direct speech e.g. in a novel »sie« and »du« are written with small letters in any case.
Writing »Du« with capital letter in a letter or email nowadays is mostly a question of the personal preferences of the writer.
Personally, since I had to use the old writing in school the whole time (I think so, at least. I don't remember the regularities in the last two years 1995 to 1997) I'm used to write »Du« in letters with capital letters, and it's one of the few things I didn't adapt from the new writing rules.
On the other hand, the new writing rules are common for almost 20 years, now. So I don't think it's really offensive to write »du« with small letters in a letter or email. When in doubt you can always »blame« the official writing rules. For a German this may be a »thought-terminating clich« in most cases. ;)
BTW: Occasionally in »quick and dirty« emails I'm omitting capital letters completely.
As far as I know, it was common form to use the capital letter up to the mid-90s and was seen as a "sign of disrespect or missig education". But, as far I remember, this formal rule was abandoned.
If you want to be sure, just keep it at the following rule: If you write something "Official", like to the authotities, your Boss or someone where you want it to be formal, use the capital letter - and with that you probaly should use "Sie" (the formal adressing form).
As long as you wite with friends, family members you are close with or everything else nonformal, you can use the small letter, no need to be formal - especially in private E-Mails without form.
But, I have to admit, I do not know for certain what the rule is today, as I had seen too many "Rechtschreibreformen" for keeping up with all of the canges and changing back they did. This is just as I do and I did not know of anyone beeing offended by the form I adressed him - they are mostly offended by the way what I call them, not how I do it.
....this nitpicking bastards.....
You do have to distinguish between Sie/Ihr (direkte Anrede) and sie/ihr (plural) anyways. The capital letter in 'Du' wouldn't be strictly neccessary, but it's a simple enough rule that way: always use capital letters when addressing someone directly.
Personally I mostly hang onto the capital letter in 'Du', both because I'm a creature of habit, it's a way to show a modicum of respect (as in: yes, I do read over my posts again for a (very superficial) spellcheck and yes, I do use capital letters when appropriate) - and it also makes for a simpler rule without an exception that way.^^
On social media always use the informal form - that comes from the history of the internet. Before the world wide web, we had communication platforms like the FIDO-net, the usenet and IRC chat, where everybody used the informal form. In the late 90s, web forums and web chats started coming up, and there it was still totally common to use the informal form. Then, about 10 or 15 years later, 'social media' were 'invented' and adapted this practice. However, unfortunately in some forums - especially on newspaper websites, which deem themselves "serious" - nowadays people insist on using the formal form, which alienates these sites from accustomed web users (and one could speculate if that was the reason for this policy).
+Seegal Galguntijak So, if one day Frau Merkel makes an AMA on reddit like President Obama did, I will get to call her du, that's exciting.
Meriç Arslan LOL, I guess you didn't mean that. Also, an AMA on reddit (which is after all part of Neuland) would be *very* unlikely for chancellor Merkel to do. But your statement reveals that to every rule, there is an exception.
+Seegal Galguntijak Thanks -- I'd always wondered why people in the internet almost exclusively use the »du« form.
The use of the third person as a polite form is known to other European languages such as Portuguese, Spanish and Italian.
Spanish Usted/Ustedes - capital letter, singular and plural forms - implies the meaning of "your grace". You address someone by not addressing him but his quality of being gracious. Portuguese uses the allocution O Senhor (His Lordship - but no aristocracy is implied, today): they address you as if they were talking about a third person.
Italian - always elegant - use the form Lei, singular, grammatically feminine but used for men and women. It used to be Ella, but there's been a shift in the usage of pronouns from nominative forms to object forms. The form Loro, third person plural, was used for the plural and it should still be used, but many people don't know how to use it anymore and prefer voi which is the informal plural of you.
If I'm not wrong - I'm just a beginner - Japanese uses the same linguistic device of Portuguese, that is not addressing someone directly but speaking to him as if he were a third person. The peculiarity is that Japanese use this way for informal you as well.
Well put. Just to add t the Spanish bit: usted comes from a combination of vuestra, which is the 2nd person plural possessive pronoun, and merced, which, as you pointed out, is grace. Where I'm from, most Spanish speakers just default to tu instead of usted, but I've never dealt with Spanish speaking authorities.
To make it even more complicated, you should mention the Hamburger Sie, the Berliner Er, the Münchner Du and the 1000 Meter Du in the mountains. You can also search for "Demel-Deutsch", a special form of adress in Viennese cafes.
Btw you can say you to me. ;-)
Poor Germans. The lack of mountains drops the limit to 1000 m... (In Switzerland the corresponding rule is 3000m. We had some teachers who were notorious for making sure any school excursion would remain below that...)
"you can say you to me"
Is being said to be spoken bei former chancer Helmut Kohl
I'm a bit curious.. You say "Unless you are invited to use the informal form." so does that mean Germans have an actual conversation at some point in their relationship about what to call each other? Like, will one person say "Shouldn't we just go informal?" or how does it work? How do you get invited to use the informal form exactly? :)
Yes: there is a verb in German, "duzen", which translates as "to use the informal mode of address" (and also "siezen" which means "to use the formal mode of address").
Somebody might say, "Du kannst mir ruhig duzen" ("You can go ahead and say 'du' to me") or "Sollen wir uns duzen?" ("Should we say 'du' to each other?").
+rewboss Ah thanks. That sounds so weird to me since I'm not used to that at all. :)
So if everyone's working towards being informal with their friends, family etc. why does the formal form exist or see any use at all? It sounds like it's something everyone really would prefer to "get past" ASAP?
Since we don't use a system like that here in Denmark, it sounds kinda unfriendly to me tbh. Not openly hostile or anything but just not-on-friendly-terms. To me it sort of seems like a person is trying to keep an emotional distance if they're too polite. Like they're not really talking to me because they want to. I don't even like being called Mister or Sir. It really makes me feel weird if someone says something like that me. I'm not "better" or "above" them. Honestly, I'd rather a waited called me "Hey you there." all night than "Sir". :p
But oh well, we're a very "we're all equal" kinda country so I guess that's why I feel that way about it. We do have a formal way of addressing someone (You becomes De instead of du.) but I've never used it in my life. The only time I know to use it is if I'm ever to meet the royal family.. And what's the chance of that happening? :)
+Gnawer Shreth "Sie" is used when you are talking to a stranger, for example on the street, when you talk to your boss, when you talk to your teacher in middle or high school. If you worked some years in the company, the boss maybe will ask you sometimes, whether you want to say "du" to him. when he doesnt, it could be sign that he strictly want to seperate privat and office live, other bosses want that the company is like a big family. there are often situations when you can use "sie", its not useless.
Capital letter because it's the first word in a sentence in the quoted speech.
+rewboss I think he meant that it is "mich" and not "mir".
in berlin its normal to say "du" to everyone. its just in the job to say "Sie", but most companies use "du" to talk with the boss. but be care, the boss decide if "du" or "Sie".
if you talk to the police its better (or polite) to say "Sie", especially if you are a tourist. But most german say "du". we have a lot of foreigner in berlin and they have problems with "du" and "Sie", thats why most of them use "du".
Ich habe selbst schon das ein oder andere Problem wegen "Du" und "Sie" erlebt oder mitbekommen. Z.B. tue ich mich selbst sehr schwer damit ältere Personen oder Autoritäten zu duzen, selbst wenn es mir angeboten wird. So haben mir die Eltern meines Exfreundes (als wir noch zusammen waren duh) nach etwa einem 3/4 Jahr das Du angeboten (also das ich sie duzen darf, sie haben mich von Anfang an geduzt) nach drei Jahren ging die Beziehung auseinander und ich hatte mich bis dahin (und danach natürlich erstrecht nicht) getraut seine Eltern tatsächlich zu duzen.
Ebenso sieze ich einen ehemaligen Lehrer von mir immer noch, obwohl ich ihn schon seit über 8 Jahren kenne, schon seit 5 Jahren aus der Schule raus bin, er mir schon lange das Du angeboten hat und wir gute Freunde sind.
Eine Regel des "Du" ist (zumindest da wo ich her komme), dass es nur von dem jeweils älteren angeboten werden kann. Ein DU, dass einem unter Einfluss von Alkohol angeboten wurde, zählt erst dann, wenn diese Person im Nüchternen zustand ein, von einem selbst gesagtes SIE in ein DU korrigiert und somit das DU erneut legitimiert. Eine weitere Regel ist, dass man ab 18 gesiezt werden sollte (von jüngeren aber auch von älteren). Dies wurde für eine Freundin von mir zu einem Problem, da sie (als sie 18 geworden war) von einigen älteren nicht gesiezt wurde und dies wirklich schlimm fand. Das ihre Lehrer sie nicht mit sie anredeten war ok, da entweder alle Schüler kollektiv mit du oder sie angeredet werden. Aber als ein Polizist sie mit du anredete und auch nach ausdrücklicher Aufforderung dies zu unterlassen fortfuhr, gerieten beide tatsächlich in Streit deswegen, da sie dann im Gegenzug anfing den Polizisten zu duzen. Natürlich ist das eine völlig bescheuerte Aktion gewesen, die damit endete, dass die Sache auf dem Revier ausdiskutiert werden musste aber für manche ist es eine unglaubliche Unverschämtheit, wenn sie einfach mit DU angeredet werden. Natürlich ist das nicht nur von Region zu Region unterschiedlich sondern auch von Mensch zu Mensch. Manche nehmen es einem auch übel, wenn man sie siezt, da sie sich dann alt fühlen und von manchen fängt man sich eine, wenn man es wagt sie unaufgefordert zu duzen.
Mir ist es eigentlich ziemlich egal ob ich geduzt oder gesiezt werde, solange man freundlich mit mir redet ist alles gut.
Thou - Du
Thou art good at English = Du bist gut in Englisch
Thee - Dich/Dir
I gave thee a sandwich = Ich gab dir ein Butterbrot
I love thee = Ich liebe dich
Thy (Vor einem Konsonant)- Dein
Thy life = Dein Leben
Thine (vor einem Vokal oder "H") - Dein
Thine heart = Dein Herz
("Mine" kann auch vor einem Vokal oder "H" benutzt werden, um "mein" zu bedeuten)
Mine apple = Mein Apfel
Thyself - Du/dich/dir selbst
Thou knowest thyself - Du kennst dich selbst
Tätigkeitswörter - ein "est" oder " 'st" hinzufügen, selbst in der Vorgangenheit
Thou lovest thine hound = Du liebst deinen Hund
Thou loved'st thy wife - Du liebtest dein Eheweib
Unregelmäßige Tätigkeitswörter:
Modal - Thou shouldst, thou shalt, thou wilt = Du solltest, du sollst/wirst, du wirst
Have - Thou hast = Du hast
Be - Thou art = Du bist, thou wast/wert = Du warst, Thou wert = du wärest
Ye - Ihr
You - Euch - (Iren machen diesen Fehler sehr oft)
Your - Euer - (Iren sagen manchmal "Yer", um das zu sagen, aber das ist laut mir falsch)
Yourselves - Ihr/euch selbst
Tätigkeitswörter funktionieren genau wie "You".
Ye are good at German = Ihr seid gut in Deutsch
Ye did it, did ye not? = Ihr habt es getan, oder?
Der Imperativ ist gleich
Do it, thou swine! = Tu(e) es, du Schwein!
Do it, ye good men! = Tut es, ihr gute Männer!
Do it, you noble lord! = Tun Sie es, Sie herrlicher Herr!
Ich habe zu viel Zeit damit verbracht.
My mother comes from a german colony in russia (and therefor spoke german) and she used to address my grandmother with "ihr". "Oma habt ihr gut geschlafen?" It is also still common in some swabian parts.
You can also hear in historical movies that kings speak to normal people by using "er" or "sie". "Hat er gedient?" So as if he would not talk to him directly.
I also like the old english forms which are so close to german.
+mkmm60 "Hat er gedient?" ("Did he serve [as a soldier]?") is a classical, and certainly not very polite, but pretty arrogant and somehow pre-democratic. .
+SiggiNebel
Mh, I would have to disagree. In some parts of Germany adressing someone directly in third person is quite common, as a way to avoid the whole "du-Sie-Thing"
+mkmm60
yep, Relatives older than oneself used to be (approx 100 years ago) addressed the formal way.
"in some parts" [citation needed] I'm willing to believe that if you supply proof/links, because I have *never* heard of this.
Not to be confused with mannerisms like "Und, wie geht's uns heute" (second person plural) which a doctor might say to a frequent (non-hypochondriac) patient.
[citation needed] Where in Schwaben?
Slight objection with what you say at 1:35. You probably meant that with a grain of salt but of course German speakers didn't change the spelling of sie in order to change it's meaning in spoken languge .It was the other way round. The meaning in spoken language changed first and later spelling began to distinguish Sie from sie.
actually using the formal form can also be insulting in some situations. The formal form implies distance. Since it is unpolite, to impose unwanted closeness on someone, it is saver, to start on formal. But if you are close to somebody, and you suddenly switch to the formal form, the other one might wonder, what went wrong in the relationship.
The "Sie" to formally addressing someone appears about the same time, when "Er" was used to address a subordinate. King Frederick the Great, called Old Fritz, would have demanded: "Sage Er sofort Ihro Königliche Majestät zu Uns!"
Made the mistake of using Du once they guy just walked away from me, lesson learned the hard way and I still kick myself for it. A good reminder to not do it again in any such language of this type. Good video Ich Danke Sie
+ewig Kase "Ich danke Sie" - this reminds me of one of the stories about a German football player (that is, raised in Germany, but with Dutch nationality) known as "Ente" (duck) Lippens, actually a football legend. In one match, the referee thought that Lippens had committed a foul and went over to him saying: "Ich verwarne Ihnen!" ("I reprimand you") but he made a grammatical mistake, as he should have said "Sie" instead of "Ihnen". Lippens replied: "Ich danke Sie!"
Formerly, "Er" was used instead of "Sie"/"Ihr" to address people who were considered to have a lower social status (e.g. a lord talking to his coachmman). If you talk to small children or if you want to be ironic, you can also use "wir". So in principle, you can translate "you" with any personal pronoun you want, depending on the context (exept for "ich"). du = you (informal, one person), Er = you (formal to address people of a lower social class, not any more in use), wir = you (ironic), Ihr = you (formal, not in use anymore), Sie = you (formal).
I think most Germans are quite tolerant if language learners muddle up their "du"s and "Sie"s. As long as a person is trying, it's fine.
I hardly ever use "Sie". My older neighbor and officials mostly. Or salespeople in shops. My colleagues and boss and many of my customers are "du". But I usually "Sieze" new customers and then they very often say "uh, let's use "du".
I'm almost 30 and still find it strange when people use Sie while talking to me. Especially if they are younger than me I feel really old, so I normally tell them instantly to use du. XD (Of course there are situations like with officials, where it is completely normal to use Sie.)
By the way even teachers have to use Sie with their pupils when they tum 18 and adress them with Sie and the first name which I still find quite amusing.
Using Sie can also be a bit strange, because being polite always has the feeling of distance. Therefore, if you use it, you candistance yourself from the person you're talking to, so e.g. if you have to deal with a molester (Though I hope that will never happen to you), use Sie, bacause if you use du, the people around you will think you are just freinds/couple fighting and are more unlikely to help.
+yoshiiinblack ich bin gerade in der Ausbildung und naja manche Kollegen in der Praxis bieten einen sofort das du an bei anderen geöhnt sich auch daran zu siezen. Bei den Lehrern kenn ich es nur ganz oder gar nicht also mit den Nachnamen meistens noch mit der Anrede Herr oder Frau wenn der Name gennat wird
There are several more finer points worth mentioning. For example, when you walk along the street and there are 5 to 10 police officers just doing their job, struggeling with something (with a few of these always standing around building a perimeter), it is no problem, to pass them with a friendly smile and say something like "Na, da hat man Euch ja auch mal wieder einen besonders schwierigen Fall aufgehalst, wa?" - They wouldn't mind the informal form in that case, just because they are also human beings and would probably at this moment enjoy joking around with any friendly passerby more than their actual assignment.
And another thing worth mentioning is that in the GDR, the informal form was much more common than the formal form. So at first, everyone was "per Du", while only persons of authority requested the "Sie" by using it on other persons. And this was the point where using the formal form *could* also be taken as an insult! So especially with people who lived during that time and experienced it, using the formal form at first is less of a problem than the other way around.
+Seegal Galguntijak In socialist and communist parties, the informal form + "comrade" was obliging anyway, and using the formal form of address came very close to blaming someone to be a traitor of the cause.
"Na, da hat man Euch ja auch mal wieder einen besonders schwierigen Fall aufgehalst, wa?" was soll denn an diesem Satz informell sein? der Satz ist völlig korrekt, denn 'Euch' bezeichnet eine Mehrzahl von Leuten. "Na, da hat man Ihnen ja auch mal wieder einen besonders schwierigen Fall aufgehalst, wa?" wäre dann richtig, wenn sich der Satz an eine einzelne Person richten würde.
One more "form" of this is the combination of the formal "Sie" with the first name of the person addressed. A rather popular example is that of former German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt and former U.S Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, wo addressed each ather using first names, but the formal Sie "out of respect for each other", even though they had been friends for many decades.
This form of usage is quite popular amongst younger people in business situations, but generally regarded as anything from rather awkward to outright wrong.
The (at least historically) correct form would be either the combination of the last name and Sie, or the first name and Du. As in: "Kommen Sie bitte herein, Herr Müller", or "Du hast ein schönes Hemd, Kurt".
As for capitals, in addressing a person directly in a letter (or email), the capital is used. This may not be the current spelling rule (is it?), but it still is widely in use and expected.
+Thomas Bögel There's one more and I come across it frequently. Using the informal "du" and the last name without prefix like "Herr" or "Frau" as a form of address is common at some workplaces. It seems to be a way of address that is equidistant between formal and informal.
CologneCarter Well, in my opinion, it does sound rather rude, but I just may be a bit old fashioned.
+Thomas Bögel It's called the Hamburger Sie, while the opposite is called the Münchner Du. The Hamburger Sie seems to be used by some parents to adress the adult friends of their children. To me it sounds like something posh people do. Mark-Evander, reichen Sie mir mal bitte den Dom Pérignon?
+Thomas Bögel Depends on the social situation. "Du, Meier" was common among pupils of a class, but has fallen in disuse recently. I think English (still) does it in the school, work or military situation among people of the same rank as well (Not with thou, of course, but addressing people by their last name alone: "Smith, pass me that thingamajigger!")
I recently learned that it's also prevalent in Danish, which may spill over in English usage of the Danish.
Ich erinner mich mit Freuden an den Hösbacher Bauern, der, weil er sich nicht sicher war, wie er mich ansprechen sollte, einfach so tat, als wäre ich mehrere. Und konsequent "ihr" sagte. Sein Problem: Ich war deutlich jünger und sprach den örtlichen Dialekt - er hätte mich problemlos duzen können. Aber: ich hatte ein Würzburger Kennzeichen und er wußte nicht, zu welcher Familie ich gehöre. Schwierig... als ging er auf Nummer Sicher.
+Baccatube79 Er hielt dich sicher nicht für eine multiple Persönlichkeit, sondern hielt es nur für unhöflich, dich einfach zu duzen, aber ihm schien, dass dein sozialer Rang es nicht erforderlich machte, dich zu siezen.
+Baccatube79 Ist das nicht sein Dialekt, der noch "ihrzt" statt siezt? Gibt's bei uns auf dem Land auch noch.
so knowledgeable! and I love that sweater! great video!
I learnt my German in Hannover as a child in the 1960/70s. Even now when I go back I think I tend to use the formal form more than people expect! 😅
Spain and the Spanish-speaking countries of South America also have an interesting history of their second person pronouns (tú/usted/vosotros/vos), and their usage varies widely from country to country nowadays.
The Swedish language (and I think the other Northern Germanic languages as well, but I'm not sure) lost a lot of its grammatical baggage, including the formal ‘ni’ (second person plural, but formerly also formal second person singular). People even address the king as ‘du’ nowadays.
echt gut erklärt :D hab deinen Kanal gerade entdeckt und bin begeistert!! :) Weiter so!!
Just keep in mind: It's always easy to go from Sie to Du, but there is no peaceful way back... (except both of you were so drunk, that you both agree to cancel your new friendship for the sake of professionalism the next morning)
Haven't read all comments so maybe it is a doublicate: Here in the South West Bade (Freiburg, Offenburg) it is quite common to use the informal plural form 'ihr' when talking to many people, also if each single person of these would have been addressed with the formal 'sie'. But no one would worry about if you use 'sie' in both singular and plural, like in standard German.
I like the "Hamburger Sie" and the "Münchener Du" versions, they are not called so because of their spreading area but because Hamburg and Munich are the opposite ends of germany.
You usualy use "Sie" when you adress somebody using his lastname "Herr Bossom, könnten Sie mir bitte die Tür aufhalten?" while you use "du" when you use the first name "Andrew, kannst du mir bitte die Tür aufhalten?".
But the "Hamburger Sie" works by combining first name and formal "Sie" to "Andrew, können sie mir bitte die Tür aufhalten?" and the "Münchener Du" uses last name and informal "du" resulting in "Bossom, kannst du mir bitte die Tür aufhalten?"
What you could have added (but it's related to the youth) is that on the Internet almost everybody is using the informal form. You won't find a lot of RUclips/Reddit/Facebook comments or whatever using the polite one.
+Rhedox well he said it that on social media you always use du so..
bleed2blue1 Okay, seems like I overheard that.
Swedish has gone through its changes too since the 60's-70's. We use "du" to address everybody regardless of rank - perhaps not the royals. Thet are are mostly addressed by title. But strangely the formal "ni" has become popular with younger people to address customers. Which I cannot understand. Even the older people think that is too displaced and even annoying. Must be foreign influence.
Fun fact: The third person had been in use to adress people of notably lower rank in earlier times like in the 18th century. "Hebe er sich hinfort!" Nowadays it's the polite form... of course only in plural.
As a official I can say in some situation you just ignore the du but only if it is not intended as an insult. That can happen because some people use du just for for everyone cause of there dialect
First thing waht came to my mind is the assumed HElmut Kohl QUote : you can say you to me.
If your are unsure in german if you should say DU or SIE, use SIE, if it is a person wich is much older then you defintly SIE, till they say DU, strangers SIE, and if not sure at all just ask. Germans don't bite. Just ask if you can use the DU, because it will be easier for you. normaly the most agree and say it is totaly ok.
The "polite" form expresses distance, switching to it in a conversation can also express that you really don't want to have anything to do with the other person any more.
In many workplaces, "du" is used among colleagues of the same level, whereas you address your boss as "Sie" and your boss will also call you "Sie".
In some political parties it's common to use "du" to members of the same party. Same goes for many subcultures.
I had to teach an american that two days ago. It wasn't a pretty picture.
I unfortunately still haven't gotten around speaking to German authorities, using "du" and then insisting on that, as a danish resident, any formal form is reserved for monarchs.
+Leo Wattenberg (LEOXD) Interesting -- are there lots of German speakers in Denmark?
etvdzs Sort of. German is basically everyones third language, so lots of people will somewhat understand you if you speak German, especially if you're in Nordschleswig (the part of Denmark that used to be German until WWI). Nordschleswig is also the region where most first-language German speakers live, although these people are getting rare as the younger generations shift more and more towards Danish, for practical reasons.
+Leo Wattenberg (LEOXD) thanks for the answer!
+Leo Wattenberg (LEOXD) it's similar in Sweden where the "Du-reformen" during the 60s and 70 made the old formal forms obsolete.
+T³ Tips Tricks Tests So there was some kind of government initiative to get people to stop using the formal pronouns? That sounds slightly bizarre ^^ What was seen as being the benefit of such a change?
Actually, on social media, since i am there full named, I use the formal form when I talk to strangers. Just as I would in real life. But it's true that many people don't. But even on youtube, I sometimes use the formal form, when I reply to someone where i think, that he said something very stupid.
from a motivational GameTheory video that decodes the ending of Minecraft to a funny video like this is NOT a good idea.
I came here from whatching the same video you just mentioned, too. :-O :-D What a coincidence!
+Speireata4 And in my case said minecraft video is the next one in my watch later list. Funny, that.
Speireata4 GT´s video actually made me play Minecraft again. a small tip: for every year u havent played the game, plan half an hour for the upates to download. seriously, from now on, i start this game twice a year, if just to get the updates.
Maybe is there actually a (modern) way of talking informal or formal to someone in english. I think maybe for example if you say "Mr. Bond" you are using the formal form. If you say "James" it is the informal form. If 007 says "Call me James" he is inviting you to use the informal form.
Informal talking english: talk normally
Formal talking english: talk normally + add Mr. Bond (or whatever) at the end.
Is this somewhat correct?
+Riccardo Vigato Sure, there are various ways of expressing formality or respect for the person you are speaking to, for example by addressing someone as "sir" or "Mr. Bond" instead of "James". But modern English doesn't have different words for "you" and "your" depending on the level of formality (except possibly in certain dialects).
@@etvdzs
English speakers are much more prone to address someone informally ("James") than German speakers.
This results in awkward situations in translations of TV series and movies, where in the English original two people call one another by their first names plus "you" at their first meeting, which is correctly translated into "Herr/Frau last name" plus "Sie" in German. As the story goes on the two develop feelings and become a couple, which can be a smooth transition in English without a need of changing the way they refer to each other. But if the translators started out with "Sie" in German, they have to "suddenly" make a cut and switch to "du" without any in-story explanation.
In Hamburg we have the "Hamburger Du". I wish my english was like your german. :D
+Robert Sturm Now I'm curious: What's the difference between the "Hamburger Du" and the "Hamburger Sie"? :)
+etvdzs ist called HAmburger Sie, It is if you call someone by his or her firstname but still say "Sie" . Ist used if y normal DU would be to intimited and full formale Sie with lastname would be to formel. Ther is also a form using the last name and DU. mostly used ine way from bosses to lower workers, or teachers to students (wich are over 18 and has to be called "Sie" but the firstnames are easier.
+redzora ok, thanks :)
Ich liebe dich ... So when else do you use "dich" for "you"? Is "dir" used same as "du"? Also "ihnen" can mean "to you"
Fluent speakers know instinctively which one to use, but learning from scratch can be confusing.
In English there's direct and indirect objects. The "you" in "I love you" is a direct object, equivalent to accusative case "dich", whereas the "you" in "I gave you my number" is an indirect object, equivalent to dative case "dir". "Du" can only be a sentence's subject, as it is nominative case, as in "You are nice."
Hey rewboss, you videos are very entertaining and engaging! I have a question about German, I was curious why most nouns are capitalized? Keep up the great work!
+Sam Fisher Here's a video I made a while back: ruclips.net/video/JvJft2fJmaA/видео.html
@@rewboss what about the word "euch"?
Dutch has something weird going on as well. There is the usual formal and informal, but there is also the 'familiar' form which is only preserved in Flemish Dutch. Dutch people will often get confused as to why Flemish people are being overly polite suddenly, because some conjugations look like the formal form. Instead it's actually not being polite at all, and people using the familiar form in public some 60 years ago used to be seen as uncivilized peasants with a poor understanding of etiquette.
If you talk to sb. you address by his 1st name (Cornelius), you use "du".
If you talk to sb. you address by his families name (Mr. Schwarzenstein), you use "Sie".
i use "du" all the time. i dont like people who use the formal language. thats also what i love so much about the english language, there isnt this annoying difference
In Denmark, the equivalent of "Sie" is used only for the Queen, everyone else is "du"
I recently found an interesting explanation for the use of the plural form to address people politetly: the Roman emperors used to call themselves "nos" (we) and thus were addressed "vos" (you, pl.), which was adopted by medieval kings in official documents and translated it into their native languages and made it "popular". That might be an explanation for this phenomenon being relatively widespread among European languages.
+IrgendSoEinKanal Makes sense. Cologne was once upon a time inhabited by Romans and the Cologne dialect (Kölsch (not the beer)) still uses "you pl." and "we" to this day. So maybe there is something to it.
+CologneCarter This is ertainly no linguistic remainder of Roman times. The Romans knew no difference of formal and informal adressing and said "tu", no matter if adressing a slave or the emperor.
Now, all that's missing are the you "er" and "wir" (yes, these are/were used, too).
I was really confused a couple years back when I was in the city of Fürstenwalde (east of Berlin) and talked to a concierge in an office building. He always addressed me with "Er" and I thought he was making fun of me.
Using the informal "du" inappropriatly will, if you're unlucky, be counted as a criminal offence.
Ich halte es für sehr wichtig die höflichen Formen (auch "Ihr") großzuschreiben. So lässt sich das besser unterscheiden, auch wenn es sich häufig im Kontext ergibt.
Ich hasse es wenn Leute mich auf der Straße einfach mit "du" ansprechen. Wenn es Kinder sind mag das noch gehen, aber irgendwo muss man denn auch den Schlussstrich ziehen und mit dem Siezen beginnen. Ich hasse dieses generelle Duzen, sei es nun auf Arbeit oder auf der Straße, sowieso und ganz besonders wenn ich mit jemanden auf Kriegsfuß bin. Wenn ich jemanden duze, dann ist das doch was besonderes. Wenn ich jemanden (selbstverständlich nach Absprache) duze, dann bin ich ihm mindestens so freundlich gesonnen, dass ich das zulasse. Duzen und Siezen sind mehr als nur Formalitäten, es sind Gesten die zeigen wie nah ich jemanden an mir ranlasse.
Interessant finde ich es jedoch, dass ich es schon gehabt habe, dass Leute angepisst waren, dass ich zu ihnen im normalen Ton mit "Se" wie in "Könn'n Se mir ma' bidde dat Blatt reich'n" anstatt "Sie" gesprochen habe. Haben die etwas gegen norddeutsche Akkzente, Mundarten, Dialekte und Sprachen?
+kilésengati Mir geht's umgekehrt. Ich hoffe, dass ich es noch erleben werden, dass das "Sie" auf der Strasse ausstirbt. (Mit Ämtern wohl eher nicht.)
Zum "Se": Da kommt das Abrutschen der Deutschen Dialekte in den Soziolekt zum Tragen. Für viele wird die Verwendung von Dialekt in formellen Situationen zum Affront. (Im Süden Gott sei Dank noch nicht.)
Also ich komme aus dem Ruhrgebiet und hier sind die Leute sehr offen was das betrifft. Klar siezt man sich hier auch, aber es kommt doch ziemlich häufig vor, dass sich wildfremde Erwachsene in willkürlich begonnen Gesprächen direkt duzen, ohne dass sich einer der beteiligten beleidigt, oder unhöflich behandelt fühlt.
Und ich finde das auch viel sympathischer, als anderen Menschen gegenüber immer so steif und verklemmt zu sein. Es bricht sich doch niemand 'nen Zacken aus der Krone, wenn er mal von Fremden geduzt wird!? :)
Ich mein, es gibt natürlich Situationen in denen wirklich die Höflichkeitsform angebracht ist, aber sie immer und überall von jedem Fremden ausnahmslos einzufordern, finde ich doch ganz schön übertrieben
You can say you to me.
At least in Danish they are all different: du, i and formal De. We call the politeness factor being either dus or dis with someone.
You can say you to me...
Oh man.... "sie" is she and "Sie" is you and "sie" used to be "they"? I've been learning German for about a week and a half now and it's starting to get overwhelming.... Like 150 flashcards in one week, a teacher who only speaks in German and fully German textbook sort of overwhelming.... But I love this language and love learning it and hope to learn it very well eventually!
For now, I can't say very much hah! And I have no one to practice with....
+WrinkleinTime42 "sie" can still mean "they". So, "Sie ist" means "She is", where "Sie sind" can mean either "They are" or "You are".
ghenulo Ah thank you. It's still a bit confusing though haha.
+WrinkleinTime42 "And I have no one to practice with...." I'd be glad to answer some questions you have or have a conversation in written form if time allows assuming you are still learning german. My english could be better aswell so we might both benefit.
+breidi123 wow! That is so nice of you! Thanks :)
Or, Danke! ;)
Bitte schön. That was a fast answer...I wasn't expecting that :)
I like the Molly calendar.
Thou (þou) fell out of use because we started substituting þ with y in some cases because printing presses didnt have a þ on them.
This isn't true: after all, in every other case we simply replaced "þ" with "th". You're thinking of the way we sometimes imitate old-fashioned language by writing things like "Ye Olde Tea Shoppe" because _modern_ signwriters can't tell the difference between "þ" and "y", but that's not what happened with "thou".
Rather, it was social changes that happened in southern England around the 17th century that caused "thou" to disappear: "thou" was associated with the lower classes and started to be considered rude, while "you" was thought to be more polite, especially with the rise of the middle classes; as always with things like this, it changed first in the spoken language before it changed in the written language. And because southern English dialects heavily influenced the standard dialect, we now have only "you" in the standard language. But "thou" (or, more usually, "tha") still exists in spoken dialects in the Midlands and the north of England, especially Yorkshire.
In some bad dubbed Hollywood movies or series you can watch, how characters name each other with the first name, but use the formal 'Sie'. This is very uncommon. Either we name each other with the first name and use the informal 'du' or we name our opponent Herr/Frau titel/Lastname and use the 'Sie'.
The only situation I can imagine, where this can happen, would be in the countryside where an old farmered used 'du' all his lifetime, maybe due to his dialect, and than visit a Doctor. The doctor is a person to respect. So he uses Herr or Frau Doktor, but due to his dialect he uses 'du'. However it would be very exotic.
+Sebastian Böhm Adressing people with a formal "Sie" and the first name is quite common in schools, where teachers have to adress older students formally, but are so familiar with them, that it would be pretty weird to change to using the last name.
On the other hand there are workplaces I have been working at, where it is common to be addressed by ones last name without "Herr" and the informal "du". Like: "Böhm, räum zusammen, gleich ist Feierabend." In return, you will address your boss using the formal "Sie".
Also, use "du" if you totally DISrespect yomebody. I guess, if everything is lost, staying formal is pointless.
I study German at the Goethe Institute, And I must admit I found it strange when my teacher [Who is German] told me to address him as 'Du'. For some reason I found this rather awkward and I don't know if I insulted him by refusing to do so. But I insisted on referring to him as 'Sie' and speaking to him in formal form until the semester was complete.
What I found equally strange is that he asked me if he could refer to me informally as 'Du' and I responded with 'Naturlich, Ich bin ihr Student'
And I explained the reason why was I needed to get used to addressing superiors and people I hardly know in formal speech, which admittingly I did not have alot of practice in, especially since ettiquette in Germany is rather important.
Still, I can't help but to wonder if I did the wrong thing or insulted him in some way.
+DC Frank Yes, this is something I feel strongly about too :) German teachers in my experience invariably want to address and be addressed by their students as 'Du'. I realise this may make the _teachers_ feel more comfortable, but it puts their students at a disadvantage when they go out into the real world without having had any practice using the 'Sie' form.
+DC Frank That's not considered acceptable among adults. Asymmetric use of the formal is OK from grownups towards children, but not at an age where you are supposed to use "Sie" without another agreement. You either both use "Sie" or both "du". (It's considered elitist.)
+HotelPapa100 If this was in a classroom situation, then I can understand that it might be taxing for the teacher to have to remember to address one student as 'Sie' but all the others as 'Du'. But if it was one-on-one tuition, then I agree that the teacher should have accepted the student's preference for 'Sie' and not insisted upon replying with 'Du'.
+etvdzs Dunno what that has to do with my statement. I simply wanted to point out that the asymmetric Du/ Sie situation, as DC Frank proposed, is not acceptable. Especially in a a teacher/student situation among adults.
+HotelPapa100 The asymmetric Du/Sie situation came about after the student explained that they preferred to use 'Sie' (for perfectly valid reasons), but the teacher apparently insisted on replying with 'Du' anyway. The only justification I can think of for this is if it was a classroom situation, where it could be confusing for the teacher and the other students to have to address just one person in the room as 'Sie'. Otherwise it seems like plain selfishness on the teacher's part. But maybe I'm missing part of the story.
Is there a video already about can/could and their german translations? As is you ask a police "Kannst Sie mir bitte helfen" is kinda messed up xD
0:16 actually "man" and the respective equivalents in different cases
One must not forget that the English you does not decline for case while the German words do. This raises the number up even more: du, dich, dir, ihr, euch, Sie, Ihnen all translate to you in English, raising the number to 7 German words for you!
+Adam 9812 Personal pronouns, are even in English delined to a certain extent.
I know that... But the one for you is not save for the possessive. I ~ me, but you ~ you.
+Adam 9812 This is acusative. Possessive would be I/my, you/your. As it occurs, the accusativ and the nominative of "you" are alike in English. In German, the nominativ and the accusative of nouns is always identical, ny the way, and only the articles and the adjectives may have different forms in both cases.
(And in all Indoeuropean languages which haven't lost the neuter gender, the neuter accusative formsare alway identical with the nominative form.)
Correct, and even in German there are exceptions. They are called weak nouns. For example: der Drache ~ den Drachen, der Architekt ~ den Architekten
Adam 9812 You're right , of course. My problem is that I never learned the rules very well - and I find them quite confusing , too. What's even more confusing: is that you can say (in nominative) both "Drache" as "Drachen" (but "ein Drache" is always a dragon and never a kite). People start to ignore the rules of weak declination more and more and even thoughthis is still a mistake, it might vanish within the next 50 years, just as the "-e" for dative ("dem Manne") has disappeared.
I assume that "Sie" as a polite form was taken over from Italian ("Lei").
In some rural areas of Gernan, "du", "Ihr" (written with capital I, I'd say) and "Sie" coexist in a way, that you're maybe addressed as "Ihr", if you seem to be fairly respectable, but just not respectable enough to deserve the even more formal "Sie".
so ye became you and you are certain that thou didnt become you?
that's a route phonemes don't usually take in linguistics.
Funny thing is: I've seen Germans use the formal form in RUclips comments specifically to be impolite. Makes a weird kind of sense. You're distancing yourself from the person you're addressing.
It's like being called by your full name by your mom.
This is a nightmare to formally teach I guess, since it is constantly changing. Formal form is used much less than it was 20 or 30 years ago I guess.
survival kit for germany : 1)A Printer...
BTW Italian also 'decided' that using the plural/singular 2' was not 'good enough'...
Or saying otherwise given that the 2'person-plural/singular was used by the fascist regime... Italian decided to go back and use the 'standard' 3-person...
Here are some phrases you should say to a German police officer if you want to spend a night in jail:
"Du hast doch wohl einen Vogel!"
"Was bist du denn für ein Streifenhörnchen?"
"Du solltest mal zum Psychiater."
Combine these three in a row, and you'll also pay a hefty fine for insult.
I'm sure rewboss will soon explain why we sometimes call police officers squirrels.
+Eisi Kater Die Würde der der Polizei ist unantastbar. Sie zu achten und zu schützen ist Verpflichtung aller staatlichen Gewalt.
In Germany, you hardly will be tried for insult, but if you insult a policeman, every persecutor will be very keen to not let you get away unpunished.
Du sollst keine anderen Streifenhörnchen neben mir haben, so spricht der Herr, dein Gott!
+Eisi Kater How to insult a Swiss police officer:
Pay the fine, and say "I don't need the receipt!"
HotelPapa100 Which reminds me of an old joke. Allegedly, at least this is believed in Germany, the Swiss call a condom "Verhüterli" [about:"small contracepter"], and there had been a number of "Verhüterli" jokes some decades ago. Here's one of them:
A Swiss pharmacist is being called on the phone. The caller asks
"Do you sell Verhüterli?"
"Yes, of course, we do."
"Have you got them in different colours?" "Yes, of course we do."
"Have you also got pink ones?"
"Yes, of course, we do."
"Well, shove one up your arse!",
and the caller hangs up.
Three weeks later, a police car stops in front of this pharamcy and a policeman enters. "Grüezi," he says to the pharmacist,"I have to inform you that you fell prey to a deceiver. You may take out that Verhüterli again."
Great video, but still one of my main problems with the english language.
For example:
*Case one* - You "rewboss" make good videos, so I say: "I like your videos!" = No problem
*Case two* - More than one person makes videos on one channel (example DangerDolan) and I want to write a nice comment for *all* the people who make videos on that channel, but everyone makes his own videos.
So If I post a comment like: "I like your videos!" below, they don't know if I'm talking to *all* of them or only to the person who made that particular video.
Is there an easy solution? Do I have to write: I like the videos from each of you?
Might be a strange question, but it's a real problem for somebody who grew up with "Du" and "Sie". :)
+Qisou
Informal, but you can use the dixie (southern US) form of "y'all".
In the south that's sometimes taken to the extreme, taking the form of "all y'all".
+Qisou This is one of the things I have always found slightly unsatisfactory about English, even before I learned German. The presence of plural forms of 'you' in certain English dialects -- such as "youse" and "y'all" -- suggests that I'm not alone in feeling this way ^^ In the particular case you mentioned, I would probably dodge and write something like: "I like all the videos on this channel". Or even: "Thanks [insert names of each of the video makers here] for your videos. I like them a lot!" For me, the phrase "I like the videos of each of you" sounds clunky and pedantic, more like something that you would read in a software instruction manual than a RUclips comment ;)
+etvdzs
That's always interesting to hear people complain about their own language, even though I've done it myself. What I always found frustrating about German, even before learning English - despite German being my native language - was that when we say a number like twenty-four, we always say the second digit before the first one (in German "Vierundzwanzig"; - literally translated: "four and twenty"). That being said, it was still weird switching that whole thing around when learning English and saying the first digit in a number before the second one :-)
Nowadays, what I really hate about German, is its reliance on grammatical gender, since I've always liked the absence of grammatical genders in English, since they just seem unnecessary and impractical. (Also we do not have a gender-neutral pronoun in German, whereas in English, "they" is starting to more and more catch on as a pronoun for said usage, alongside its current usage when talking about multiple people)
+Swiss Man 18 Yes, the German system of counting certainly takes a bit of getting used to ;) I used to get mixed up a lot and say things like "das Erstundzwanzige" instead of "das Einundzwanzigste".The lack of a gender-neutral pronoun certainly creates its challenges, although I suppose in certain situations you can dodge and say "man" or "jemand". _Grammatical_ gender on the other hand is something that for me at least adds colour to the language. A technical email about a Spooldatei and a Druckertreiber becomes much more vivid when I can think about the former being a woman (or at least a female entity) and the latter being a man :) But I'm not sure whether it comes across that way for native speakers.
etvdzs
Well, honestly as a native speaker you tend to not really think of anything your language does is wrong. But I've seen people trying to learn German, and when they say they struggle with something more than you'd think as a native speaker, it's obvious that it's particularly hard for some people to learn. Like when someone first pointed out, that German had SIXTEEN different words for "the" (3 genders plus the plural times the four cases), I honestly thought to myself: "How the hell did I learn all this?!" xD
Germans even verbified the usage of these two words: "Siezen" and "Duzen".
As if the German Subtitles in this Video haven't already addressed that
+Meriç Arslan Youing?
Jonathan Duffield youing & youing lol.
+Jonathan Duffield Naja eigentlich eher "(to) you" und "(to) you", youing und youing wären ja die Verlaufs- bzw. Gerundiumsformen.
+Jonathan Duffield Youing Oil
You also may need some others if you happen to invent a time machine and want to talk to some nobles.
i just go and say "Sie" to people who i dont know. i also get uncomfortable when they invite me to use "du". i dont know why, it just feels weird
probably, even in English one would not say "you" to a police man - especially if he is going to write you a ticket ---- "duat ma laat hea inschbekda owa dafau~ waas i nigs ..." (just a quote)
Always interesting and educational presentations here!
You are both educational and entertaining!
Google Translate: "Sie sind sowohl lehrreich und unterhaltsam!"
+downhill240 Meh, google. 'Sowohl ... als auch ...' would be correct. :)
Anyways, I agree.
pieniaurinko That is why I always put what I get from Google Translate in quotation marks.
downhill240 Didn't mean to be an annoying smart ass, it just... itches when I see something like that. If someone goes to all the trouble to post a sentence in german. they should at least be given a correct one. :)
No problem! I've alway suspected that the translations available are pretty much garbled. I also know that many countries are multi-language capable unlike America. At least the part I live in! LOL
downhill240 At least this one was still understandable! Try to find a random Video in another language and turn on the translated RUclips subtitles. It's often funny, but hardly ever coherent.^^
I thought there was a big part of the US where most people speak both american english as well as at least some spanish?
Anyways, I think english is rather widely spread,and while I like keeping different languages, dialects etc alive, having a common language to communicate is getting ever more important.
Ja, manchmal ist es wirklich schwierig zu wissen, ob man jemanden duzen oder siezen soll. Meistens sieze ich die Leute in unserem German Club, bis jetzt bin ich aber fast nur geduzt worden. Darf ich die Leute wirklich so ohne Weiteres duzen? Ich bin zwar selbst nicht mehr der Jüngste, aber die meisten Leute dort sind ungefähr zweimal so alt wie ich ^^
+etvdzs Bei großem Altersunterschied warte ich auch immer, bis die ältere Person mir das Du anbietet. Da hat sich in den letzten Jahrzehnten viel geändert, aber das ist halt nicht bei den älteren Generationen so angekommen. Gleichaltrige und Jüngere duze ich in der Regel, außer in Behörden oder so.
+Ninchennase Danke für die Antwort! Manchmal glaube ich, dass Deutschsprachige, die seit Jahrzehnten im Ausland leben, das Siezen langsam verlernen, wenn sie die Sprache nur mit Freunden und Verwandten reden. Ein Schweizer, den ich hier kenne, hat mir in diesem Zusammenhang einmal gesagt: "Ich kann das nicht". Naja, ich glaube, ich bleibe erstmal beim Sie, auch wenn das sich manchmal ein bisschen aufgesetzt anfühlt ^^
+etvdzs In Sportvereinen und Clubs ist es in Deutschland meistens üblich, sich automatisch zu duzen. Als Trainer ignoriere ich es sogar häufig, wenn einer meiner Schüler mich siezt. Das gleiche gilt für Studenten an der Universität. Selbst, wenn ich ihr Tutor bin, lasse ich mich nicht siezen. Entgegen dem, was rewboss hier sagt, kann es für manche Leute durchaus auch beleidigend erscheinen, wenn du formell bist, obwohl dafür keine Notwendigkeit besteht, weil es den Eindruck erwecken kann, dass du mit jemandem eigentlich nichts zu tun haben möchtest...
In der Regel ist siezen aber tatsächlich sicherer.
+ThamiorSilberdrache ok, das macht Sinn. Danke für die Erklärung
Im Englischen (zumindest im Internet) gibt es doch das "u".
U are correct
In places at more than1000m above sea level, "Sie" can be considered as rude
Huh?
@@riflemanm16a2
There's the tongue-in-cheek rule that there's no "Sie" above 1000m above sea level.
1. The use of formal/polite "Sie" is much less frequent in rural areas and guess what... the mountainous areas happen to be more rural.
2. "Sie" is used to establish or maintain a "hierarchical distance" as a token of politeness due to age or social status, while using "du" is a sign of overall closeness, friendship, comradeship, equality.
So there clearly is a difference in status with your boss (which would ask for using "Sie"), but the use of "du" could be possible if the high-ranking one wants to establish a feeling of "we are in this together".
When you are climbing a mountain and share a (more or less) exhausting experience, there's no hierarchy. The mountain is as steep and as high for any one, regardless of their education, income, job position. Since you are "in this together", "du" is (once more) appropriate above 1000m.
@@Galenus1234 I have no recollection of the original comment, but that is very interesting. Thank you for the detailed explanation!
ER DUZTE MICH! ER DUZTE MICH!
My former landlord addressed me as "Er"
Seems to be a regional thing
Though, historically both "er" and "Sie" were used. It didn't just suddenly come out of nowhere.
+Merrsharr I only remember "Er" beeing used by royals speaking to a guy of the common folk or someone of lesser importance ... i would consider it quite rude nowadays even tho it might be perfectly fine since I am not an expert with that. I usualy just use "Sie"
Nergal BlackSun
I found it really strange as well, but other people from the village did the same. So I assume it is a really unusual regional thing.
+Merrsharr It seems like your landlord really hates you.
"er" itself is a common word to use it's just rare in terms of adressing someone directly . Since it's just "he" you normaly use it to adress a guy you mentioned before but not the guy you are talking to... Which is probably the reason why i think it's rude because you don't address someone you are speaking to like you are talking to someone else about him.
but yea royals and their 3rd person speech let's u think that all the time anyway
"he of whom I don't know the name of shall speak now!"
"Er dessen Namen ich nicht kenne soll nun sprechen !"
"who? what? I?! wait no you should know my name... who are you talking to damn it ?!"
+Merrsharr My god, in which century your former landlord was born? I thought this way of takling had died out about 150 years ago. It seems to me that adressing someone else as "er/Er" or (female) "sie/Sie" was in a way ambiguous, and could be as well meant respectul (with capitals) or rather disrespectful, if not rude, especially when being combined with "der Kerl" ("Der Kerl ist impertinent, halte er seinen Mund!"), or "das Weib".
How do to want me to call you? Mr. Bossom or Andrew?
Interestingly, using the formal form in tge internet makes someone look waymore informal to me because he i seitger some adult who never used the internet, or dumb
Ich finde es angemessen von Fremden und Jüngeren mit "Sie" angesprochen zu werden. Ausnahme wäre eine Person, die nicht richtig deutsch kann. Meine Eltern mussten ihre Eltern mit "ihr" ansprechen. Das habe auch ich bei meinen Großeltern getan und es ist mir kein Zacken aus der Krone gefallen. Im Gegenteil, ich finde es respektlos, wenn einen jüngere oder fremde Personen einfach duzen.
My instructor told me that du was used toward your wife, your children, your dog, & your God. Of course, that was 60 years ago. LOL!
In reading the Luther Bible, I discovered to my surprise that the "du" was used when addressing God/Christ, being that God is our supreme authority. I then got to reasoning that due to the necessity of one's having a personal relationship with God (through Jesus Christ), it makes sense to address God in the familiar or informal way. Andrew even explained that, from a theological perspective, we are to call on God as our "Daddy" (Abba), indicating the use of the informal/familiar.
Kapital s?
In german middle ages addressing persons of a higher rank with plural they couldnt use just only ihr when saying: I see you. they had to use euch: Ich sehe euch, but: Ihr könnt mir vertrauen. Euch is the actual cognate word of ye/you but they had (and we still have) to use both ihr and euch depending on if the adressed person is the grammatical object or subject.
Warum schau ich mir das an? Ich bin deutscher.
Egal, Daumen hoch
+Richard C dass mit dem "thou" und "ye" hab ich noch nicht gewusst :D
Yeah sie = they and Sie = You but sie/Sie (beginning of sentences capital) can also be "she"
that's why you gotta watch for the verb in the Sentence:
„Sie *hat* ein Auto“ (She has a car)
vs.
„Sie *haben* ein Auto“ (You have a car/They have a car)
Me?
Why did German start to use “Sie”?
+SiggiNebel Why do some people call Wikipeda wiki? Wikipedia is just one of many wikis. It would be like calling RUclips video sharing.
ghenulo Well, everyboday seems to understand. Some people also say for instance "Ameruíca" or "the States", when they mean the "United States of America", but everyone will understand, and so on and so on..
MysteryHendrik did you watched the video?
I don't see any reason why I should youse the informal word in the internet.
Or anywhere else!
Iam not as degenerated as the rest of the world.
There's also the formal capital-letter "Du", used for things somewhere in between "Sie" and "du", but it isn't used as much anymore.
No, that was the standard way of writing "du" in letters. Before 1996, the official guidelines where that it should be capitalized. Now, capitalization is simply optional. It doesn't have any special significance, though.
You're right, I retract my statement. But you could argue that, if you write a letter, "Du" is somewhat formal, as no one writes letters these days.
It's not formal just because it's archaic. Anyhow, the same rule applied to e-mails, greetings cards, any situation where you would want to address somebody directly in written form.
rewboss Sheesh, it was a joke.
A history professor of mine once explained the upcoming of "Sie" within medievil high-level language groups like nobility and/or government. Within a reception of village managers of the monarchy , so called "maier" - like the nowadays common last name - the nobility referred to the maier as "Sie", meaning the village inhabitants as a whole. For example the question "Wie geht es Ihnen?" wasn´t directed towards the maier as person but to all the inhabitants and their well-being all together.
And when 'sie' can also mean 'she', I'm like, OK German, you need to find some different words lol
Italian does the same, they use "Lei" which is "she" (lei) capitalised.
Du hast eine Form vergessen undnd zwar:"Euch". Denn "Euch" ist ebenfals eine Höflichkeitsform.
„Euch“ ist der Dativ und der Akkusativ von „Ihr“
genau so wie „dir“ der Dativ und „dich“ der Akkusativ von „du“ sind.
Also VORSICHT: *die Deutsche Sprache hat immer noch Fälle*
+LordRaiden Das "Euch" gehört zum Ihrzen soweit ich weiß, welches er auch erwähnt hat. Des Weiteren wollte er vermutlich kuriose Sonderformen wie Erzen (Nur davon gelesen, selber nie gesehen.) und weiß der Geier noch was erstmals rauslassen.
DaneeBound
Das ist nicht ganz richtig denn im Mittelalter wurden z.B. bei Könige und Kaiser verwendet.
LordRaiden mit "Eure Majestät" wurde seine Majestät zwar angesprochen, das ist aber auch nur ein Wortspiel.
Weil für Allerhöchstdieselben muss man ja immer ne extra Wurscht braten
+DaneeBound Nicht nur das. Man sagt ja auch z.B. was darf ich Euch kredenzen?