I couldn’t have appreciated this podcast more. Thank you both so, SO much for being a voice in the wilderness!! This podcast completely echoes and confirms what the Lord has been showing me these past four years regarding HIS church. The Lord is continuing to purify His Bride!!
"When we start drawing from the world we act like tge world.. ." The Church is not, a business. Praise God someone is speaking truth that the Church is an eternal family.
There is a scripture in Malachi Chapter 3:16 right after the arrogant we're called blessed, that says those who feared The Lord talked with each other, and The Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared The Lord and honored his name." 17"They will be mine.... Keep on reading and getting wisdom from The Holy Spirit of Truth. Thank you deeply from one pastor on staff who was terminated by Corporate Church King and am now grateful to have The Lord's heart as you also have come to know. Thank you for making His heart known. Keep going...there's probably hundreds of thousand out here that are hearing the same truth from God.
Thank you very much for this interview. You and your guest articulated so perfectly what I knew in my heart but didn’t have words for. Thank you so much!!
In the “charismatic” NAR type stream many of the leaders fancy themselves “apostles” (vs pastors) and they typically are too busy and important for the sheep and don’t have the (lower) gift of pastoring. We have tiptoed into that sort of stream and each time found ourselves feeling very shepherd-less. (And yes being treated like children despite being treated like adults in every other facet of our lives)
Julie, have you seen the new documentary. "Enemies Within the Church"? It would make an interesting podcast and the producer would make an interesting guest.
Addicted to power and money. And they don't even want contact with those they're suppose to minister. Gone are the days of pastors visiting they're congregations in their homes.
The part about the Ephesians 4 passage commonly being applied to leadership, when it's actually supposed to be applied to the Body, hit me hard. That passage is so often used to push out women and to regulate them to a lower status. It would be amazing for the Church if half the congregation was freed to step into their Spirit-filled roles.
And ... False leadership then enters in using your words to get what you want via the "law" of manifestation (read: infestation of your soul). Because .... after all, YOU'RE a leader! The only thing being manifested is the sinful, power-hungry nature of all of us.
I've been a pastor for 20 yrs and I can say I am not that great of a leader. I once told my wife that I didn't have the talent or ambition to start a cult. How can I start a cult if I have trouble getting people to bring potato salad to a church potluck? LoL
I'm glad you said "friends", Julie, because The Society of Friends is an option. I like how the Quakers value God's willingness and ability to speak through anyone during meeting. One paid "leader" isn't necessary. One of my fav modern theologians, Phillip Clayton, became Quaker for good reason. And I'm pretty sure he and another guy I respect, Rob Bell, both went to Fuller back in the day. I almost did myself. This song 😊 ruclips.net/video/U9Ih68EIQ4E/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Such a good discussion... but my spirit groans for this to taken into a deeper discussion. The Nicolaitans... in Revelation 2:6... Were also associated with the doctrine of "Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the people of God Rev 2:14".. I believe we have adopted many concepts of God which are very unlike Jesus. Which has become a stumblingblock to the growth of God's people. We need to return to the foundation of our faith which is Jesus. Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. And Hebrews 1:2-3 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son.... Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person..." We need to return to the testimony of Jesus.
Acts 20:17-38..The only speech/ sermon in Acts to Christians about leadership in the church to the Ephesians elders. What they are talking about is in contrast and conflict to this passage. This passage lays out the pattern that is the biblical practice.
Unfortunately in Brazil I’ve been experiencing the exactly same thing. Sometimes I feel like I’m not in church. It feels more like I’m in a Ted Talks audience. The leadership principles are not by the Bible but more like business principles. It’s sad. Most of Brazilian churches just copy and paste everything about famous american mega churches.
Julie, how do I get a hold of Lance? I'd love some church recommendations, I live in Kansas City. I looked up the sentralized conference he is involved in and he's linked up with Jen Hatmaker, she's a fruit loop. Wonder if he still is...makes me wonder about his affiliations
This is one of the MANY reasons why I left the church and sought out following Torah. The CHURCH is NOT the biblical system of faith, belief and fellowship! The "followers of the way" were NOT church systems, the models we see operating today! I have seen it even in the smallest of churches, pastors are NOT serving, they have their status and it is wrong! This type of leadership is not what we see in the Bible.
The real question is what is a Pastor... Person that Shepherd's the flock or a tyrant who beats the flock? A Shepherd knows the names of his sheep and lays down his life for the sheep. The whole foundation is wrong.
I placed a thumbs down because this is making me sick to see the lack of courage in the men and women of God! What is wrong with you guys? God told Joshua to be of good courage several times. The evangelical worship of these “men” has caused this mess. And most of these men are “weak” men. I totally disagree with the previous guest. They are not strong but you/we have put these guys on pedestals. Shame on us. Much of this sexual misconduct is also illegal and a crime. File a civil or criminal lawsuit. Where is Jay Sekulow and his law group? Hiding and saying nothing. Christians were arrogant and dismissive of the MeToo movement. We should’ve embraced those women but we let our Pharisaical attitude turn us into the priest and Levite who walked on the other side of the road, away from the wounded Samaritan. Shame on us! Protestant Christians piled on the Catholic Church, not seeing them as hurting Christians, when the issues of priest sexual abuse came out. We did not stand with them at all. We were silent and secretly condemning them, right? Because we think they are lost anyway, right? So now the chickens have come home to roost. ALL OF YOUR PROPPED UP LEADERS. Not just the name-it-and-claim-it pastors and their churches (that’s an easy straw man to tear down). But, all of your/our “Popes”, right!? And now you say you have no hope! Really? Read your Bible folks. This has been predicted by none other than Jesus Christ Himself. C’mon Matt 24, Paul’s letter to Timothy, Second Peter, 1 John 5, etc. Look them up and feel hopeful and rejoice. You can pray for these idiot narcissists if you want - but rather pray for the flock that they have discernment, courage to call out these wolves and kick them out, in the name of Jesus!
I agree with so much of what is said but don't feel like it went far enough. Still glossing over putting people on the payroll - definitely hypocritical of leading by example. How are you supposed to tell others to serve, but "I" get paid to do this. Tithes are not New Covenant, so where is the money coming from? Also, still referring to them as leaders - that's got to stop. You said they need to lay down their crown and titles yet you still refer to them as pastors. Pastor is not a title - it's a gift just like I wouldn't call myself Giver John or introducer myself as Giver. You guys arw definitely on the right track just don't beat around the bush.
Too many believers need a human hero….they worship great speakers. They need to pull up. And get caught up in the ‘marketing of Jesus’….from a charismatic. It happens to business people too: see Elizabeth Holmes and Adam Neuman…all disingenuine snake oil salesmen. Power corrupts.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Bigger In Texas [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QxTkZTLWdo4/mqdefault.jpg)
This is the most important conversation of our generation.
Julie can you please never let this conversation become silent. The church needs this!
I couldn’t have appreciated this podcast more. Thank you both so, SO much for being a voice in the wilderness!! This podcast completely echoes and confirms what the Lord has been showing me these past four years regarding HIS church. The Lord is continuing to purify His Bride!!
Glad to have discovered this. I could write a book about my experiences and this podcast has confirmed a lot for me.
The church has asked for entertainment and now it is destroying itself from the inside out. We have all asked for it and now we got it!
"When we start drawing from the world we act like tge world.. ." The Church is not, a business. Praise God someone is speaking truth that the Church is an eternal family.
There is a scripture in Malachi Chapter 3:16 right after the arrogant we're called blessed, that says those who feared The Lord talked with each other, and The Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared The Lord and honored his name." 17"They will be mine....
Keep on reading and getting wisdom from The Holy Spirit of Truth.
Thank you deeply from one pastor on staff who was terminated by Corporate Church King and am now grateful to have The Lord's heart as you also have come to know. Thank you for making His heart known. Keep going...there's probably hundreds of thousand out here that are hearing the same truth from God.
That is so beautiful and encouraging Frann - thank you for truth from His wonderful word❤️
Thank you very much for this interview. You and your guest articulated so perfectly what I knew in my heart but didn’t have words for. Thank you so much!!
Thank you. Excellent discussion.
In the “charismatic” NAR type stream many of the leaders fancy themselves “apostles” (vs pastors) and they typically are too busy and important for the sheep and don’t have the (lower) gift of pastoring. We have tiptoed into that sort of stream and each time found ourselves feeling very shepherd-less. (And yes being treated like children despite being treated like adults in every other facet of our lives)
Julie, have you seen the new documentary. "Enemies Within the Church"? It would make an interesting podcast and the producer would make an interesting guest.
Yes. We love dealers in certainty. We also love to out source our thinking skills and having "professional" Christians
Exactly 💯 💯 💯
I remember when Servant Leader by Ken Blanchard was a thing.. great info.. thank you.. Godspeed!!
Addicted to power and money. And they don't even want contact with those they're suppose to minister. Gone are the days of pastors visiting they're congregations in their homes.
The part about the Ephesians 4 passage commonly being applied to leadership, when it's actually supposed to be applied to the Body, hit me hard. That passage is so often used to push out women and to regulate them to a lower status. It would be amazing for the Church if half the congregation was freed to step into their Spirit-filled roles.
And ... False leadership then enters in using your words to get what you want via the "law" of manifestation (read: infestation of your soul). Because .... after all, YOU'RE a leader!
The only thing being manifested is the sinful, power-hungry nature of all of us.
I've been a pastor for 20 yrs and I can say I am not that great of a leader. I once told my wife that I didn't have the talent or ambition to start a cult. How can I start a cult if I have trouble getting people to bring potato salad to a church potluck? LoL
The church has also become way to political even seeking political power!!!!
I'm glad you said "friends", Julie, because The Society of Friends is an option. I like how the Quakers value God's willingness and ability to speak through anyone during meeting. One paid "leader" isn't necessary. One of my fav modern theologians, Phillip Clayton, became Quaker for good reason. And I'm pretty sure he and another guy I respect, Rob Bell, both went to Fuller back in the day. I almost did myself.
This song 😊 ruclips.net/video/U9Ih68EIQ4E/видео.htmlfeature=shared
We are adicted to leadership just like Israel were addicted to wanting a king. We forget that we are all anointed and are called to be priests.
Amen 🙏
💯👏👏👏👏👏👏
🔥👍🔥👍🔥👍🔥👍🔥👍🔥👍
Such a good discussion... but my spirit groans for this to taken into a deeper discussion. The Nicolaitans... in Revelation 2:6... Were also associated with the doctrine of "Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the people of God Rev 2:14".. I believe we have adopted many concepts of God which are very unlike Jesus. Which has become a stumblingblock to the growth of God's people. We need to return to the foundation of our faith which is Jesus. Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. And Hebrews 1:2-3 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son.... Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person..." We need to return to the testimony of Jesus.
Great discussion- thank you!
Some of them do close. Melody land. The cristal cathedral.long gone.
What happened with the Dave Ramsey scandal? I tried googling, but didn't get clear answers.
Acts 20:17-38..The only speech/ sermon in Acts to Christians about leadership in the church to the Ephesians elders. What they are talking about is in contrast and conflict to this passage. This passage lays out the pattern that is the biblical practice.
Unfortunately in Brazil I’ve been experiencing the exactly same thing. Sometimes I feel like I’m not in church.
It feels more like I’m in a Ted Talks audience. The leadership principles are not by the Bible but more like business principles. It’s sad. Most of Brazilian churches just copy and paste everything about famous american mega churches.
Great discussion. But you know Vineyard is very much single Pastor lead.
People go out of desperation!!!!!! They want to be cared for!!
It's sooooo sad. It's about 💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰
Julie, how do I get a hold of Lance? I'd love some church recommendations, I live in Kansas City. I looked up the sentralized conference he is involved in and he's linked up with Jen Hatmaker, she's a fruit loop. Wonder if he still is...makes me wonder about his affiliations
Liza, Jen Hatmaker spoke at our conference several years ago. Before she came forward embracing alternative beliefs.
This is one of the MANY reasons why I left the church and sought out following Torah. The CHURCH is NOT the biblical system of faith, belief and fellowship! The "followers of the way" were NOT church systems, the models we see operating today! I have seen it even in the smallest of churches, pastors are NOT serving, they have their status and it is wrong! This type of leadership is not what we see in the Bible.
This is what makes me want to be done with evangelicalism. Os Guinness’ book “Dining With The Devil” described this problem back in the 90s and 2000s
The real question is what is a Pastor... Person that Shepherd's the flock or a tyrant who beats the flock? A Shepherd knows the names of his sheep and lays down his life for the sheep. The whole foundation is wrong.
It's supposed to be a family. The Christian family.
59:28 re: taking the Lord’s name in vain, I believe that’s exactly right
I placed a thumbs down because this is making me sick to see the lack of courage in the men and women of God! What is wrong with you guys? God told Joshua to be of good courage several times.
The evangelical worship of these “men” has caused this mess. And most of these men are “weak” men. I totally disagree with the previous guest. They are not strong but you/we have put these guys on pedestals. Shame on us. Much of this sexual misconduct is also illegal and a crime. File a civil or criminal lawsuit. Where is Jay Sekulow and his law group? Hiding and saying nothing.
Christians were arrogant and dismissive of the MeToo movement. We should’ve embraced those women but we let our Pharisaical attitude turn us into the priest and Levite who walked on the other side of the road, away from the wounded Samaritan. Shame on us!
Protestant Christians piled on the Catholic Church, not seeing them as hurting Christians, when the issues of priest sexual abuse came out. We did not stand with them at all. We were silent and secretly condemning them, right? Because we think they are lost anyway, right?
So now the chickens have come home to roost. ALL OF YOUR PROPPED UP LEADERS. Not just the name-it-and-claim-it pastors and their churches (that’s an easy straw man to tear down). But, all of your/our “Popes”, right!?
And now you say you have no hope! Really? Read your Bible folks. This has been predicted by none other than Jesus Christ Himself. C’mon Matt 24, Paul’s letter to Timothy, Second Peter, 1 John 5, etc. Look them up and feel hopeful and rejoice. You can pray for these idiot narcissists if you want - but rather pray for the flock that they have discernment, courage to call out these wolves and kick them out, in the name of Jesus!
I agree with so much of what is said but don't feel like it went far enough. Still glossing over putting people on the payroll - definitely hypocritical of leading by example. How are you supposed to tell others to serve, but "I" get paid to do this. Tithes are not New Covenant, so where is the money coming from? Also, still referring to them as leaders - that's got to stop. You said they need to lay down their crown and titles yet you still refer to them as pastors. Pastor is not a title - it's a gift just like I wouldn't call myself Giver John or introducer myself as Giver. You guys arw definitely on the right track just don't beat around the bush.
Too many believers need a human hero….they worship great speakers. They need to pull up. And get caught up in the ‘marketing of Jesus’….from a charismatic. It happens to business people too: see Elizabeth Holmes and Adam Neuman…all disingenuine snake oil salesmen. Power corrupts.
Lance Ford was anti-Trump. Hope you’re happy with what you’ve got, pal.