Will this work in an insulated concrete slab (say 6") as opposed to ceiling panels? This would be in a new home with ICF walls, highly insulated roof, mixed dry climate (CA zone 11)
Better if you used some physics to make this more efficient. Zone Side: 1) A hydronic cooling loop in the ceiling (cool, but above room's dew point) 2) A hydronic heating loop in the floor 3) An air heat exchange zone at the windows (both heat+cool), with ambient humidity control (doable with dedicated heating and cooling coils) 4) A hydronic towel heating rack (seems like a luxury, but you can tolerate a cooler lower humidity bathroom with warm towels) 5) Energy recovery from a room/bathroom ventilator 6) Domestic hot water from heat pump 7) Energy recovery from the laundry and cooking air streams (look at dehumidifying driers for a start, but they are not easy to integrate with existing HVAC systems) Supply side: 1) Hot and cold thermal storage tanks with stratification columns (prevents mixing the supply and load streams). 2) Closed-loop ground source geothermal wells for bulk heating/cooling 3) Combined heat+power for make-up heat and emergency backup power (when not needed for backup, it gets sold back to a grid if you're attached, or it can go to an electric boiler for any unused power to reduce run-time). Variable circulators for the hydronics, variable refrigerant flow of the heat pumps - only use the energy you need, not a watt more. #1 and #2 keep the temperatures where the need to be, warmer near your feet, cooler near your head. Air is a terrible temperature transport, so you design the system to only condition the air minimizing the amount of air you need to move. As much better as water is than air, refrigerant is yet still more efficient as it goes through a phase change (water would either have to go to steam or ice). Nobody has an off-the-shelf system like this yet, Mitsubihi's City-Multi Water-Source VRF gets pretty close to all the above points (still might need some custom work for the hydronic loop hookups and cooking/laundry hookups), Trane is getting closer to accidentally doing this here in the USA than they have ever been in the past few decades, but it's going to be a "pull" from the field, rather than a "push" from the factory.
I have one complaint. They compare the rate of heat absorption between water and air. How about comparing the rate of heat absorption between water and the refrigerants used in the air forced systems. IT'S THE RFEIGERANT ABSORBING HEAT...NOT THE AIR!!!
Refrigerants absorb more heat per pound of mass when they go through phase changes, in comparison to water or air when either of the latter remains in a single phase. One thing to consider is that the distribution energy it takes to move refrigerants through piping is definitely higher than moving the same amount of energy using water. There are certainly many things to consider. Thanks for pointing that out.
Still excellent in 2020,when my wall unit fails I will install one of these.
Thanks for sharing your feedback. All the best in installing your chilled water cooling system!
Will this work in an insulated concrete slab (say 6") as opposed to ceiling panels? This would be in a new home with ICF walls, highly insulated roof, mixed dry climate (CA zone 11)
Better if you used some physics to make this more efficient.
Zone Side:
1) A hydronic cooling loop in the ceiling (cool, but above room's dew point)
2) A hydronic heating loop in the floor
3) An air heat exchange zone at the windows (both heat+cool), with ambient humidity control (doable with dedicated heating and cooling coils)
4) A hydronic towel heating rack (seems like a luxury, but you can tolerate a cooler lower humidity bathroom with warm towels)
5) Energy recovery from a room/bathroom ventilator
6) Domestic hot water from heat pump
7) Energy recovery from the laundry and cooking air streams (look at dehumidifying driers for a start, but they are not easy to integrate with existing HVAC systems)
Supply side:
1) Hot and cold thermal storage tanks with stratification columns (prevents mixing the supply and load streams).
2) Closed-loop ground source geothermal wells for bulk heating/cooling
3) Combined heat+power for make-up heat and emergency backup power (when not needed for backup, it gets sold back to a grid if you're attached, or it can go to an electric boiler for any unused power to reduce run-time).
Variable circulators for the hydronics, variable refrigerant flow of the heat pumps - only use the energy you need, not a watt more. #1 and #2 keep the temperatures where the need to be, warmer near your feet, cooler near your head. Air is a terrible temperature transport, so you design the system to only condition the air minimizing the amount of air you need to move. As much better as water is than air, refrigerant is yet still more efficient as it goes through a phase change (water would either have to go to steam or ice).
Nobody has an off-the-shelf system like this yet, Mitsubihi's City-Multi Water-Source VRF gets pretty close to all the above points (still might need some custom work for the hydronic loop hookups and cooking/laundry hookups), Trane is getting closer to accidentally doing this here in the USA than they have ever been in the past few decades, but it's going to be a "pull" from the field, rather than a "push" from the factory.
Excellent presentation. Thank You!
We thank you for your kind words.
Thanks for the usefull Videos...keep posting more it helps us alot
+Imtiyaz uddin So glad to read your comment. Thanks a lot and... we will for sure!
I have one complaint. They compare the rate of heat absorption between water and air. How about comparing the rate of heat absorption between water and the refrigerants used in the air forced systems. IT'S THE RFEIGERANT ABSORBING HEAT...NOT THE AIR!!!
Refrigerants absorb more heat per pound of mass when they go through phase changes, in comparison to water or air when either of the latter remains in a single phase. One thing to consider is that the distribution energy it takes to move refrigerants through piping is definitely higher than moving the same amount of energy using water. There are certainly many things to consider. Thanks for pointing that out.
LOL, I kept trying to wipe the dot off my screen, but it was in the slide show.
LAUGH!