Yes Rings matter but you also gotta add context to it. Example being both MJ and Kareem both have 6 titles but Kareem only have 2 FMVPs to account for those 6
Rings matter as part of context, I dont buy that Russels rings dont matter because he won it againts lower talent thats BS. talent is a function of time ofcourse people are more talented as time goes one because they are learning from the previous generations, everyone is standing on giants and Russle is the biggest giant. however there is context that takes away from his rings imo, there were simply allot less teams, mathematically being better than 8 is allot easier than being better than 27 or 30
In the modern era nobody has won back to back or 3 peated in a decade now thats kinda crazy to me period mj he woulda 3 peated or 4 peated in the modern era an kobe 2
Bill Russell’s 11 rings as the universally acknowledged best player on those championship teams makes him the GOAT. His playoff stats on O of 16pts and 5asts don’t pop out, but they compare very favorably to Wilt’s stats in Wilt’s only two championship campaigns of 18pts and 6asts. If he had had Wilt’s lesser, stat-chasing mindset, there is no doubt that Russell had the chops to put up gaudy stats. Russell’s greatness is because he had the ability to recognize that racking up stats was not the best way for him to contribute to winning and the ability to commit year in and year out to team basketball.
@ Another point to take to heart: Bill Russell was incredibly innovative. Major parts of the game that are today considered obvious and universal were not that way back then and required Russell to unlock. Jumping to block shots was considered anathema until Russell proved its effectiveness. He also is considered the father of fast break basketball. The norm was for the PG to come to the rebounder to accept the ball via a handoff. Russell invented the outlet pass to a PG waiting along the sideline about 1/3rd of the way up the floor. Those innovations seem blasé today, but it’s the same way that Star Wars seems like just another SF movie for today’s kids. Greatness spawns innumerable imitators. But if you experienced the original in the context of the era when it first exploded onto the scene? Phenomenon. You’ll also want to note that Russell’s innovations produced negligible stat impact. Blocks were not tallied during his career. It’s the same with the fast break. Russell’s innovative fast break has three roles: the rebounder and outlet passer, the ball handler and facilitator, and then the finisher. All three roles are key pieces of the offensive puzzle. Russell obviously mostly took the first role. But where the ball handler and facilitator gets assists and the finisher gets points, the rebounder and outlet passer gets no offensive box score credit despite being a critical link in the chain. Don’t leave your feet to block shots. Bigs should just hold the rebound above their head until they can hand the ball off to the PG. The world was convinced of those “truths” until Bill Russell proved them to be false.
Bill isn't universally acknowledged as squat. He was at best co-The Guy with Cousy, then co-The Guy with Heinsohn, then co-The Guy with Sam Jones. Bill didn't even average 10 ppg on his last title run, if you want to call it "his", which I don't.
@@mj23goat3 Oh, wait, you’re right. I forgot to clarify: universally acknowledged as the best player on the team- by every observer who wasn’t a blatant white supremacist. 5x MVP, 12x All Star, 11x All NBA. If the FMVP award had existed, he probably would have won it nine or ten times. Team captain. Player-coach.
Bill Russell 1:11 championship rings when there was only like 10 teams in the league what is a completely different deal you can't even put him in there because of that
Do you think there were a bunch of guys out there who were as good or better than Wilt, Russell, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Bob Pettit, etc.? Tons of missed talent out there? Does your opinion hold consistent today? Do you believe that we are missing a bunch of LeBron/Curry/Giannis/KD/Jokic caliber players that we would uncover if we just expanded the league to, say, fifty teams? Nah, the best of the best rise to the top and work their way into the NBA. The smaller league back in Russell’s day didn’t make it significantly easier to win championships. The best of the best of that time period were in the NBA. To win his championships, Bill Russell had to overcome the best of the best. Especially the best of the best bigs. A really talented 6’-8” or taller athlete was almost certainly going to probe his basketball potential, no matter the era.
He has more rings most definitely, but does that make him a better player than the centers that has played with more accolades than he does? Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, etc?
“the best player is the man that can do the most… who can carry his team on his back.” Apply this criteria to “Band of Brothers,” and you have to conclude that Sobol > Winters. No way. Much of Bill Russell’s greatness comes from the same places where Winters >> Sobol.
MJ and Kareem are the only guys that won the most rings in their player pool/era, so they can crap on the ring counts of previous/weaker eras like Bill Russell... This is why only MJ and Kareem can use the rings argument, since they're the only ones the won the most of their player pool/era... Of course, MJ won 6 as the best player, compared to only 2 or 3 for Kareem.. So Mj is the clear-cut goat and it's a fake debate
This goat debate has killed the nba products over the years because all we talk about everyday is the goat debate, this the only sport that does that, everyone knows babe Ruth us the best baseball player. Hockey Wayne Gretsky, football Tom Brady, but basketball we debate everyday about it. The other sports don't debate top 5 or top 10. Now you tube are comparing players at their positions. That's nuts, but other sports knows who's the goat clear cut.
I definitely agree with you on this statement, but the video isn’t about who is the GOAT. Our very own Michael Jordan don’t even consider himself as the GOAT. Does having more rings makes a player better than the next player with no rings, or between 1-3 rings
MJ is a better offensive player more clutch than Bill Russell is MJ also won more 🏆with less help Bill Russell probably better defensively than MJ is and had way more HOF players on his team
@@mentalmindedbasketball7613 you're competing to win. If your playstyle not winning championships what's the point. Bill Russell was the most athletic player in his time easily could have put up more stats sacrificed that to win that's why he was the better player and tm8 then wilt.
Having more Rings is about a team being able to do things other players cannot do be in the greatest on offense in all different areas of the game be in the best on defense is what makes a player the greatest player it has nothing to do with rings I know a lot of great players you guys have never heard of because they never won any rings it is about mid-range shooting it is about your handles movies about your ability to motivate your team it is about your ability mostly your natural ability but seeing the floor there are many aspects of being the greatest player but you cannot be the greatest player if you want to just do it on offense you have to be the greatest player on defense also
Bill Russell isn't as good as Shaq was to be honest with you except for free throws he's better I wouldn't even put Bill Russell in the top 10 of all time when you only play 10 different teams you're actually going into a whole lot of stuff that I don't even want to watch because it doesn't make sense the players you're putting against each other if you know basketball you know basketball if you don't you don't and the way you're putting players up against each other doesn't make sense in basketball terminology the best player is the man that can do the most on the court who can score the most on the court who can get the most rebounds on the court who can carry his team on his back but in an era where you played more than 10 teams you can't compare that person they were just too far back if you want to save Bill Russell does the best say he's the best but every player that has ever played the game will disagree with you he probably won't be in the top 10 when a player puts fear in the greatest players in the world which are NBA players and there's only one player in history that has ever been said to do that by the greatest players in the world you don't need our opinion you go by their opinion they're the ones that played against Michael the only one that said he could play with Michael Jordan is Bill Russell himself Michael's answer to that was I never played against him I have no idea when you know you are great you don't have to tell people you're great Michael never said he was the greatest player in the world Butler Braun did after he had three rings rings do not make you the greatest player in the world what makes you the greatest player in the world is when you can do things with a basketball that no other player in the world can duplicate and be the highest score in the league every year you played NBA first team all-defense nearly every year you were in the league and the closest player to you is a man that has played for 21 years when you played 12 years so it took LeBron 21 years to still not even catch what Michael Jordan did in 10 years imagine LeBron playing 12 years and put his stats up against Michael Jordan it would be so one-sided on Jordan's side it is unreal Nobody Compares Bill Russell to Michael Jordan except you I'm going to tell you straight up the best player that has ever played the game was Michael Jordan the second best player that has ever played the game was Kobe Bryant and I'm going to tell you that LeBron does not even make my top five because the only reason he is in the conversation is because of longevity if you put him in the average of 12 Years you wouldn't even be in the conversation at all and the fact that takes him out of the most valuable player or the greatest player is I cannot stand the Flopper when I saw Michael Jordan flying in over 5 Next Time After Time After Time and getting knocked to the ground getting choked I saw Larry Bird the same thing happening to him and not once did they ever fly they were being held they were being knocked down my question is who in this era could accomplish what Michael Jordan Larry Bird Magic Johnson and many more could do in that era you can't even hand check a man now back then they were grabbing you around the neck when you were going up for a dunk and most of the fouls weren't called bank with these men could do when fouls are called when everything is called in a league of today we're the middle is wide open because the defense is spread so wide Michael with score 50 a game he wouldn't have to fight through five guys to get to the hole all he would have to do is beat one man off the dribble which he could do easily to this day nobody has ever had a 48 inch vertical jump in the NBA besides Michael Jordan and this is 2024 from the beginning of History till this day nobody has equaled his jump in ability which means nobody could stop him I would take Allen Iverson over LeBron James I would take Magic Johnson the reason is they played great defense like all of the players I have mentioned LeBron James arrested on defense and was the biggest Flopper even worse than Reggie Miller was Reggie Miller would grab your waist when you were going up or hold on to your shirt but if he was barely touched he would fall to the ground and look at how big LeBron James is 6 ft 8 and if he is getting blocked not touched he knows he can't get his shot off and he is in the air and he doesn't pass the ball well in the air like Michael Jordan did He Flops I hate a Flopper truth
Absolutely I've seen greats cry 😭 over rings 💍 of course they matters what you think they are playing 4 🙏🏽
Yes rings play a part, but are we really saying a player is better than the next player because how many rings they won?
Yes Rings matter but you also gotta add context to it. Example being both MJ and Kareem both have 6 titles but Kareem only have 2 FMVPs to account for those 6
Ok ok, I see your point my guy!
Yes more Rings is better than stats. I'm sure Bill Russell thought he was the best.
Rings does matter, PERIOD!!!
👊🏾👊🏾💪🏾💪🏾
RINGS MATTER MEANS YOUR WINNING CHAMPIONSHIP OKAY
@lewisgermany368 👍🏾👍🏾👌🏾
Rings matter as part of context, I dont buy that Russels rings dont matter because he won it againts lower talent thats BS. talent is a function of time ofcourse people are more talented as time goes one because they are learning from the previous generations, everyone is standing on giants and Russle is the biggest giant. however there is context that takes away from his rings imo, there were simply allot less teams, mathematically being better than 8 is allot easier than being better than 27 or 30
👊🏾👊🏾💪🏾💪🏾👍🏾
Also the context of Russ never _once_ being the leading scorer on any of his championship teams. MJ, meanwhile...
@mj23goat3 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
In the modern era nobody has won back to back or 3 peated in a decade now thats kinda crazy to me period mj he woulda 3 peated or 4 peated in the modern era an kobe 2
This is true!
It’s not a simple ring count, but what are the circumstances under which you won those rings and your role in winning those rings.
💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
Bill Russell’s 11 rings as the universally acknowledged best player on those championship teams makes him the GOAT. His playoff stats on O of 16pts and 5asts don’t pop out, but they compare very favorably to Wilt’s stats in Wilt’s only two championship campaigns of 18pts and 6asts. If he had had Wilt’s lesser, stat-chasing mindset, there is no doubt that Russell had the chops to put up gaudy stats. Russell’s greatness is because he had the ability to recognize that racking up stats was not the best way for him to contribute to winning and the ability to commit year in and year out to team basketball.
I can understand that!! 💪🏾💪🏾
@ Another point to take to heart:
Bill Russell was incredibly innovative. Major parts of the game that are today considered obvious and universal were not that way back then and required Russell to unlock. Jumping to block shots was considered anathema until Russell proved its effectiveness. He also is considered the father of fast break basketball. The norm was for the PG to come to the rebounder to accept the ball via a handoff. Russell invented the outlet pass to a PG waiting along the sideline about 1/3rd of the way up the floor. Those innovations seem blasé today, but it’s the same way that Star Wars seems like just another SF movie for today’s kids. Greatness spawns innumerable imitators. But if you experienced the original in the context of the era when it first exploded onto the scene? Phenomenon.
You’ll also want to note that Russell’s innovations produced negligible stat impact. Blocks were not tallied during his career.
It’s the same with the fast break. Russell’s innovative fast break has three roles: the rebounder and outlet passer, the ball handler and facilitator, and then the finisher. All three roles are key pieces of the offensive puzzle. Russell obviously mostly took the first role. But where the ball handler and facilitator gets assists and the finisher gets points, the rebounder and outlet passer gets no offensive box score credit despite being a critical link in the chain.
Don’t leave your feet to block shots. Bigs should just hold the rebound above their head until they can hand the ball off to the PG. The world was convinced of those “truths” until Bill Russell proved them to be false.
@yopyop3241 these are very true points my guy!!! 💪🏾💪🏾👌🏾👌🏾👍🏾
Bill isn't universally acknowledged as squat. He was at best co-The Guy with Cousy, then co-The Guy with Heinsohn, then co-The Guy with Sam Jones. Bill didn't even average 10 ppg on his last title run, if you want to call it "his", which I don't.
@@mj23goat3 Oh, wait, you’re right. I forgot to clarify: universally acknowledged as the best player on the team- by every observer who wasn’t a blatant white supremacist.
5x MVP, 12x All Star, 11x All NBA. If the FMVP award had existed, he probably would have won it nine or ten times. Team captain. Player-coach.
Bill Russell 1:11 championship rings when there was only like 10 teams in the league what is a completely different deal you can't even put him in there because of that
Do you think there were a bunch of guys out there who were as good or better than Wilt, Russell, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Bob Pettit, etc.? Tons of missed talent out there? Does your opinion hold consistent today? Do you believe that we are missing a bunch of LeBron/Curry/Giannis/KD/Jokic caliber players that we would uncover if we just expanded the league to, say, fifty teams?
Nah, the best of the best rise to the top and work their way into the NBA. The smaller league back in Russell’s day didn’t make it significantly easier to win championships. The best of the best of that time period were in the NBA. To win his championships, Bill Russell had to overcome the best of the best. Especially the best of the best bigs. A really talented 6’-8” or taller athlete was almost certainly going to probe his basketball potential, no matter the era.
It era whoever dominated win not stats because they didnt keep all stats accolades certain time period no three point shot it the eye test
I got you
Bill Russell 11 championships is the best ever in the nba
He has more rings most definitely, but does that make him a better player than the centers that has played with more accolades than he does? Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, etc?
@RobertWilliams-qv2iu ...I second emotion!!!
Yes it is he didn't even score over 50 points period
Yes it matters. You play to win championships
Yes sir you right, but does having many rings makes you better than a player with more individual accolades?
@RobertWilliams-qv2iu ...Absolutely!!!
Everything is about each other's opinion because we all will never agree
“the best player is the man that can do the most… who can carry his team on his back.”
Apply this criteria to “Band of Brothers,” and you have to conclude that Sobol > Winters. No way.
Much of Bill Russell’s greatness comes from the same places where Winters >> Sobol.
MJ and Kareem are the only guys that won the most rings in their player pool/era, so they can crap on the ring counts of previous/weaker eras like Bill Russell... This is why only MJ and Kareem can use the rings argument, since they're the only ones the won the most of their player pool/era... Of course, MJ won 6 as the best player, compared to only 2 or 3 for Kareem.. So Mj is the clear-cut goat and it's a fake debate
So in your case, rings matter only if we’re talking about MJ and Kareem because they have the most rings in their era? If, so, I get that
This goat debate has killed the nba products over the years because all we talk about everyday is the goat debate, this the only sport that does that, everyone knows babe Ruth us the best baseball player. Hockey Wayne Gretsky, football Tom Brady, but basketball we debate everyday about it. The other sports don't debate top 5 or top 10. Now you tube are comparing players at their positions. That's nuts, but other sports knows who's the goat clear cut.
I definitely agree with you on this statement, but the video isn’t about who is the GOAT. Our very own Michael Jordan don’t even consider himself as the GOAT. Does having more rings makes a player better than the next player with no rings, or between 1-3 rings
Rings Matters, since labron have less Rings, now yall trying to be little winning championships
MJ is a better offensive player more clutch than Bill Russell is MJ also won more 🏆with less help Bill Russell probably better defensively than MJ is and had way more HOF players on his team
👍🏾👍🏾💪🏾💪🏾
@DavidThomas-dy3kq ...Statistics doesn't win championships!
Matter of fact Wilt Chamberlain is better then all of them
Why you say Wilt Chamberlain is better family?
@@mentalmindedbasketball7613he's better period
Better at dominatin' unathletic 6'4" white sloths, for sure.
More Rings, more better, that's how it is, tom Brady got more Rings then Joe Montana
Tom won alot an to me joe montana still better an john elway to
No, Wilt Chamberlain was clearly better than Bill Russell
Wilt he is way better bcaus he a better scorer period bill cnt score lik wilt nah
@JermaineDurham-m5o 👍🏾👍🏾
Rings > stats
What’s your reasoning fam?
@@mentalmindedbasketball7613 you're competing to win. If your playstyle not winning championships what's the point. Bill Russell was the most athletic player in his time easily could have put up more stats sacrificed that to win that's why he was the better player and tm8 then wilt.
@@mentalmindedbasketball7613 some players play to win others play to put up stats who would you rather have on your team
@Joe-x3p9i so does that Bill Russell better than everyone that has played in the league?
@Joe-x3p9i or is playing in the league?
Having more Rings is about a team being able to do things other players cannot do be in the greatest on offense in all different areas of the game be in the best on defense is what makes a player the greatest player it has nothing to do with rings I know a lot of great players you guys have never heard of because they never won any rings it is about mid-range shooting it is about your handles movies about your ability to motivate your team it is about your ability mostly your natural ability but seeing the floor there are many aspects of being the greatest player but you cannot be the greatest player if you want to just do it on offense you have to be the greatest player on defense also
💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾 agreed brother
No!
I’ll say this about having more rings being better than another player? Sometimes yes sometimes no.
That’s a reasonable answer 💪🏾💪🏾
Bill Russell isn't as good as Shaq was to be honest with you except for free throws he's better I wouldn't even put Bill Russell in the top 10 of all time when you only play 10 different teams you're actually going into a whole lot of stuff that I don't even want to watch because it doesn't make sense the players you're putting against each other if you know basketball you know basketball if you don't you don't and the way you're putting players up against each other doesn't make sense in basketball terminology the best player is the man that can do the most on the court who can score the most on the court who can get the most rebounds on the court who can carry his team on his back but in an era where you played more than 10 teams you can't compare that person they were just too far back if you want to save Bill Russell does the best say he's the best but every player that has ever played the game will disagree with you he probably won't be in the top 10 when a player puts fear in the greatest players in the world which are NBA players and there's only one player in history that has ever been said to do that by the greatest players in the world you don't need our opinion you go by their opinion they're the ones that played against Michael the only one that said he could play with Michael Jordan is Bill Russell himself Michael's answer to that was I never played against him I have no idea when you know you are great you don't have to tell people you're great Michael never said he was the greatest player in the world Butler Braun did after he had three rings rings do not make you the greatest player in the world what makes you the greatest player in the world is when you can do things with a basketball that no other player in the world can duplicate and be the highest score in the league every year you played NBA first team all-defense nearly every year you were in the league and the closest player to you is a man that has played for 21 years when you played 12 years so it took LeBron 21 years to still not even catch what Michael Jordan did in 10 years imagine LeBron playing 12 years and put his stats up against Michael Jordan it would be so one-sided on Jordan's side it is unreal Nobody Compares Bill Russell to Michael Jordan except you I'm going to tell you straight up the best player that has ever played the game was Michael Jordan the second best player that has ever played the game was Kobe Bryant and I'm going to tell you that LeBron does not even make my top five because the only reason he is in the conversation is because of longevity if you put him in the average of 12 Years you wouldn't even be in the conversation at all and the fact that takes him out of the most valuable player or the greatest player is I cannot stand the Flopper when I saw Michael Jordan flying in over 5 Next Time After Time After Time and getting knocked to the ground getting choked I saw Larry Bird the same thing happening to him and not once did they ever fly they were being held they were being knocked down my question is who in this era could accomplish what Michael Jordan Larry Bird Magic Johnson and many more could do in that era you can't even hand check a man now back then they were grabbing you around the neck when you were going up for a dunk and most of the fouls weren't called bank with these men could do when fouls are called when everything is called in a league of today we're the middle is wide open because the defense is spread so wide Michael with score 50 a game he wouldn't have to fight through five guys to get to the hole all he would have to do is beat one man off the dribble which he could do easily to this day nobody has ever had a 48 inch vertical jump in the NBA besides Michael Jordan and this is 2024 from the beginning of History till this day nobody has equaled his jump in ability which means nobody could stop him I would take Allen Iverson over LeBron James I would take Magic Johnson the reason is they played great defense like all of the players I have mentioned LeBron James arrested on defense and was the biggest Flopper even worse than Reggie Miller was Reggie Miller would grab your waist when you were going up or hold on to your shirt but if he was barely touched he would fall to the ground and look at how big LeBron James is 6 ft 8 and if he is getting blocked not touched he knows he can't get his shot off and he is in the air and he doesn't pass the ball well in the air like Michael Jordan did He Flops I hate a Flopper truth
Agreed brother!! Love the way you elaborated on this. That’s the point I was getting at in the video