Ditching the Fourth Decimal Place
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2020
- This is the first segment of my Scale Modeling Workshop "Post-Script" videos. This video shares a few thoughts that have come to mind while working with my latest project. I hope you find it interesting.
Scale Model Workshop website: scale-model-workshop.com/
How can one NOT find your stuff interesting? :)
The obsession of the "rivet" counting modeler has no bounds. I don`t know how many models I scrapped that were treasures to others but junk to me. Then one day I woke up and didn`t care anymore. Subsequently, the fun returned. Good stuff. Cheers.
Another excellent video thanks 👍. George in England
So, this probably should have been your first RUclips video doc. Thank you for saying what I’ve been think for decades. Your stuff is always worth the time and is thought provoking.
Spot on target sir, a lot like those analog calipers. Another great video, thank you!
I find myself in that little group..
I love my Vernier calliper..!!
I try to watch all of your videos I can; I think that what your channel teaches is that the most important skill a modeler can have is problem solving. That said, I will share some good advice that I got from a co-worker, once. He said, "you're going to be looking at it, not smelling it."
As always I appreciate your uncanny ability to right wrongs no matter how you approach it Paul. I've enjoyed your work for many years since the article in FSM in the 80's. Thank you!
Life is a series of compromises, scale modelling is no different. As always, thanks for the video.
Always good to see the new video notification. Haven’t even watched it yet! Wish they were more often!
Always love your work and appreciate the time you spend sharing your thoughts and creations. Thank you
The 4th decimal place is ludicrous when you think about the fact that all measurements have uncertainties. If you scientifically want to do it, you have to take multiple readings, take the average and standard deviation and report the measurement as a nominal +/- associated uncertainty. And then where do you go? You make a right point, end of the day it is all relative to the modeller and what looks right to him/her. I guess some modelers are better at getting it 'right' than others.
The other issue I have noticed with relying purely on precise measurements is that, one wrong measurement can completely ruin the appearance of the model where it sticks out like a sore thumb.
Doc, you raise the question of how close is good enough. Thanks for doing so. The advent of spreadsheets and digital calipers has skewed notions of significant digits.
I still use my dad's calliper. Made in Poland in the 70s. Works like a charm. Thank you for sharing. Very insightful. Stay safe and take care.
So glad to see a new video Doctor. Your absence from YT was causing me concern.
To my mind the art of creating things is the interpretation of data, not blind obedience to measurements.I learned to use calipers long before there was such a thing as digital calipers. I still use calipers in my work and vastly prefer my old fashioned calipers to digital. Easier and faster to read.
BTW, how are things in Frostbite Falls?
My modeling "forte" is 1:87 HO scale model railroading. My two primary standards are the 3 foot rule and TLAR. The 3 foot rule says that if looks good from 3 foot away, it's good enough. TLAR stands for That Looks About Right. As you stated, you have to draw the line somewhere!
I feel the same about my 1/144 kits, which I almost exclusively build nowadays. The scale is so small that when I tried using "big scale" methods of painting and weathering it just looked weird and too dark. And when I started to correct and add every missing detail it just wasn't fun
Everything is best in moderation!
Thank you
Waoo!!! su trabajo es excelente! Gracias por compartir!
Waoo !!! your work is excellent! Thanks for sharing!
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔. Words to ponder. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
as always, THE BEST
Excellent, sage advise Sir. Not trying to teach you anything...In my rapid distancing from youth I have found that my expectations are higher than others. Most often good enough is good enough. God bless.
Mate aswell as being interesting your the asmr of modelling fantastic
I noticed this more when i used digital calipers to measure original Panzer parts, model them in 3d and then resin print them. If a part is truly in 35th scale it doesn't fit the kit because the kit is a compromise. So I had to use my judgement to figure out where to scale to look better than a kit part, but not quite true to scale.
This seems to be a constant battle for me in my hobby work. Even in painting, finding myself redoing the same lines over and over again because with the 2-4x lenses on everything looks immense. When I feel discouraged I try to step back and view the model from standing near the tabletop and that usually helps walk me off the ledge.
Well said, God bless.
In woodworking, that the four legs look the same is the rule, not are the same. For myself, I have always preferred a dial caliper; no batteries, easy to use and visualize, and more security than I will ever be.
I'm in my 30s, as a Mechanical Designer, now a Mechanical Engineer, I recently started using the dial caliper again myself (i grew up pre-internet/cellphone, learning by reading books from the libraries, and learning drafting by hand and using manual/analog tools). I like not depending on batteries, and trust the zero and such more when I can see what is going on (I always hated the digital aspect of 0.0005 and 0.0000 too). For the work I do, even plus or minus 0.002 isn't a big deal anyways, and if you know what you are doing it's easy to design tolerance into your parts. My dial caliper also has dual dimensions, as we work with both millimeters and inches seamlessly, even on the same part. I like knowing the equivalent dimension in either system. All the work I do in CAD is dual dimensions as well, and I set the measure tool in CAD to display dual dimensions for this reason. I still use a digital caliper too, I just find the dial caliper more reliable (digital always loses the battery at the worst times) and satisfying. I also still prefer using my TI-30X IIS calculator instead of my smartphone too, maybe because I've been using the same calculator almost since the TI-30X IIS was first released.
But I'm a bit old school in my thinking compared to most my age. I also think, that like learning math/calculus by hand, without a calculator (the way I learned it, fortunately), using a dial caliper and practicing mental math, makes you a superior engineer overall. Young engineers I mentor all relied on calculators and digital tools in school growing up, and they now struggle with mental math, thinking on their feet, and struggle to solve basic calc 1 problems only 6 months after finishing a class like calc 3 without the aid of a calculator or math solving software. Writing problems by hand makes a huge difference in memory retention and comprehension. I feel using a dial or vernier caliper can similarly improve certain mental skills that are useful to engineers, even if only slightly.
Ya, as you can see dial calipers are the way to go when you need to discriminate about a dimension. Just like my last word dial indicator (0.0005"dial resolution). Jut under or over the half mark let's me decide. I also just picked up a vernier caliper with fine feed. Fun to use and sighting lines closest to the mark! Gets pretty easy with like anything 'practice'. But why not for general measuring use a digital caliper. They now come with CR2032 so that are much more reliable.
All great comments and learnings about this subject.
Insightful
That latest release of the revell pt boat i have to say was disapointing, i was hopping for the same quality that they did on the german shnell boat they did some time back, I thought this would be just as good or even better being a later release, but it wasn't to be, hope the aftermarket will come to my rescue.
What is your background in the Dental field?
Dentist
Great video! Where can that end quote from Steinbeck be found? Google let me down.
You are not going to find it anywhere ... it is a third hand re-write ... the original comes from the Book, Cannery Row: “Mack was the elder, leader, mentor, and to a small extent the exploiter of a little group of men who had in common no families, no money, and no ambitions beyond food, drink, and contentment.”
The movie by the same name, changed the quote to: ” Mack was the leader of a small group of men who had in common no families, no money, and no ambition beyond the time to discuss matters of interest but little importance."
I omitted Mack and “no families, no money.” I’m not fond of plagiarizing, even if it is second hand.
Paul
@@scale-model-workshopit is not ‘plagiarizing’ if you cite the original author… then it becomes a quote, which is perfectly legal, and morally honest.
In point of fact, ascribing John Steinbeck to the words you re-wrote is misleading…not much beyond a very small idea is left of the original.
(Yes, this is a two-year old video (as of July 2023) but i wrote this for the future.
And yes, I have taken your words, combined with the original, and the second quote, then translated to Spanish, and printed it up on nice card-stock to hang on the wall of the dusty hobby store where three to six of us ‘elders’ have irregular meetings to enjoy our company, with “food, drink, discussion and contentment”. Thank you, Paul)..
Actually the circle contains all real numbers so it could be more accurate than the digital version.
In reality no scale scale model is ever really truely to scale. At least any model that most people would be familiar with. Imagine an absolutely scale model of an automobile with scale thickness body work. You wouldn't be able to handle it, it would be incredibly fragile. Probably the area of scale modeling that comes closest to actual material thicknesses is in some card modeling. Although due to limitations of the material card models fall short in other areas. Try doing a compound curve in paper. It can be done over a small area with a lot of skill. But it's not easy. I've never got the trick of it down pat. Some card ship models with beautiful hull curves actually have hulls filled with either an expanding foam or foam board insulation sanded, filled, sanded by hand and painted.
The most accurate "scale models" in terms of being a truely faithful minatures of the prototype are some of the minature IC aircraft engines, steam engines and fire arms. Even then there may have to be compromises in the fasteners etc.
All one can truely hope to accomplish is it looks right if they are the average builder.
Not only is it difficult to realize a scale model truly to scale in all dimensions and textures, it is likely that these older cars and transportation vessels that we enjoy replicating are not symmetrical. Old cars are not symmetrical, and neither is my new Ford F-150. I can guarantee you that!
As an aside, I come from the automotive design business, the design studio. A scale model in clay, authorized for further development that it makes it to the full scale model, does NOT appear the same in line and character to the eye. Conversely, in reverse, it is not likely to translate directly either. I just finished a (for my personal talents) a detailed model car beyond what was in the box. I now long for a more simple and fun project - with a twist of adding weathering. It will be quick and fun, and perhaps more relaxing and enjoyable from several angles.
yes, the old 80-20 rule, that I never obey
Best part of analog calipers is that you never have to change the battery and it never dies. The only real advantage to digital is you can quickly convert between imperial and metric measurements.
Just get a metric dial caliper also! 🤣
They're all guesstimator sticks any way.
I despise the precise rivet counting attitude
I hate digital calipers
When one is taking any measurement with any instrument the last decimal point should be read either as 0 or 5. For examole 5.5662 should be read as 5.5660. This is becouse the last decimal point is at the limit of measurment precision of the instrument and is as such unreliable.
My question is it the presicion of the instrument or is it just the calculated display output of the reader to the capacitance lines on the bar? So th ed Ok it may be