Another excellent interview with someone I wouldn’t have guessed would be on the channel. I found it interesting halfway through the talk when discussing the 4th century and how they were trying to show the differences between the Christian God and others. So different compared to Justin Martyrs letters where he continually shows the similarities between them.
Early in my faith journey I heeded the advice of Dr. McGrath and delved into the historical roots of the ideas mainline Christianity embraces today. I came to the conclusion that the 4th century transformation of Christian understanding likely did not come about through a sort of natural progression but through cultural self-preservation and political persuasion. With the increasing absence of a Jewish Christian presence to challenge the influx of foreign concepts, a void emerged, which was subsequently filled by contemporary Hellenistic philosophies and religious beliefs. As a result, the guiding force of the church shifted from the Holy Spirit to the prevailing spirit of Roman imperialism. It seems that a similar transformation occurred in our comprehension of the natural world. As secularism gained prominence in the sciences, it became intertwined with ancient Greek atomistic concepts, leading to the widespread acceptance of Darwinism, which even many Christians now endorse.
Darwinism will destroy materialism and atomism. Darwinism hasn't yet been realized for what it is. The admission that scientific physicalism is insufficient
Aw I loved this so much. Partly for the highfalutin ideas (and I did like that - felt uplifting looking to the future, and I enjoyed the trinity chat) and partly because he reminded me of a video about pregnancies/babies which I love (edited to say it was narrated by McGough (Lancastrian Catholic) though I swear McGrath sounds a bit like him!!). Great that you got him on, well worth the listen 👍
I like a lot of what Dr. McGrath is saying. I believe it's essential for Christians to create spaces where they can thoughtfully explore profound theological questions and even long-established scientific ideas in a spirit of cooperation rather than conflict. The reality is that Christianity is grappling with a significant existential crisis, and I believe this crisis may be linked to long-held ideas and traditions that were unfortunately based on misconceptions, which are now just coming to manifest as an all-pervasive nihilism. Ideas have power. That is why I believe identifying propositional misunderstandings is crucial, as they could be preventing the faithful from establishing a genuine connection to God.
Sam can you please invite Dr Ed Siecienski on Filioque, Papacy, and Purgatory. He wrote a dissertation as a Catholic and converted to Eastern Orthodox.
@transfigured3673 learn to do some due dilettantery! The gist is that when you're trying to do something (say, lift a boulder) you roll a 20 sided die and add whatever modifiers you have (e.g. +2 strength). There will be a target number you have to match or exceed in order to "make your savings throw" (move the boulder), otherwise you "fail your savings throw" (and the boulder stays put). In this context, the voice of a British professor has a powerful ability to make you believe what he's saying without necessarily checking it for yourself, so you're rolling for a savings throw of whether he deceives you or not. If you succeed, you catch him being dodgy about something. If you fail, you believe everything he says.
Reflecting on the experiences of early Gentile believers in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries, it’s likely that the separation from the apostles and Jewish followers shaped their understanding of the gospel and Jesus. Unlike the Jews, who had a deep-rooted understanding of the Old Testament's themes and concepts, these early believers interpreted Christianity through their own cultural perspectives. And I believe this highlights the importance of embracing a traditional Hebraic interpretation of Genesis, particularly regarding Adam as a significant historical figure whose actions profoundly influenced humanity. Without this foundational context, one cannot fully grasp the transformative impact that Jesus as a sinless man (not a deity) had on changing the world through his righteous deeds sealed by his death and resurrection. Rather than framing Jesus within concepts like incarnation and evolution that stray from traditional Hebraic thought, its my hope that brave Jewish believers rise up to embrace their Messiah, Jesus, and help restore a genuine understanding of scripture to the world. I'm positive Biblical Unitarians are eager to offer their support.
How do any of these skeptical attacks help Sam's view? What sort of historical methodology leads to Unitarianism being true? Sam can't even find a non-trinitarian church to attend. Seems like Unitarianism is left holding the historical baggage.
The idea that there is a Darwinist survival of the fittest ideas is a category error. Animals compete for survival and breed in certain narrow ways. Memes, not so much. But fundamentally, I see it as wasteful polemic to go back centuries and fight old battles, as if Alternative History has a chance.
![Diggy Graves - Red Vineyard [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8Ro085T0mnQ/mqdefault.jpg)
You hit a home run with this one, Sam.
Thanks Mark
A good conversation I'm sure we all wish could've been longer. Fascinating that this even came about!
Nice Sam 💪
Thanks!
Another excellent interview with someone I wouldn’t have guessed would be on the channel. I found it interesting halfway through the talk when discussing the 4th century and how they were trying to show the differences between the Christian God and others. So different compared to Justin Martyrs letters where he continually shows the similarities between them.
good point
A nice procurement, Sam. Great episode :)
Thanks EmJay
Dang, Sam! You're bringing in some heavy hitters lately!
Thanks Paul.
Great questions and great answers.
Thanks Phlebas
Early in my faith journey I heeded the advice of Dr. McGrath and delved into the historical roots of the ideas mainline Christianity embraces today. I came to the conclusion that the 4th century transformation of Christian understanding likely did not come about through a sort of natural progression but through cultural self-preservation and political persuasion. With the increasing absence of a Jewish Christian presence to challenge the influx of foreign concepts, a void emerged, which was subsequently filled by contemporary Hellenistic philosophies and religious beliefs. As a result, the guiding force of the church shifted from the Holy Spirit to the prevailing spirit of Roman imperialism.
It seems that a similar transformation occurred in our comprehension of the natural world. As secularism gained prominence in the sciences, it became intertwined with ancient Greek atomistic concepts, leading to the widespread acceptance of Darwinism, which even many Christians now endorse.
Darwinism will destroy materialism and atomism. Darwinism hasn't yet been realized for what it is. The admission that scientific physicalism is insufficient
Well said.
Aw I loved this so much. Partly for the highfalutin ideas (and I did like that - felt uplifting looking to the future, and I enjoyed the trinity chat) and partly because he reminded me of a video about pregnancies/babies which I love (edited to say it was narrated by McGough (Lancastrian Catholic) though I swear McGrath sounds a bit like him!!).
Great that you got him on, well worth the listen 👍
Thanks for listening!
I like a lot of what Dr. McGrath is saying. I believe it's essential for Christians to create spaces where they can thoughtfully explore profound theological questions and even long-established scientific ideas in a spirit of cooperation rather than conflict. The reality is that Christianity is grappling with a significant existential crisis, and I believe this crisis may be linked to long-held ideas and traditions that were unfortunately based on misconceptions, which are now just coming to manifest as an all-pervasive nihilism. Ideas have power. That is why I believe identifying propositional misunderstandings is crucial, as they could be preventing the faithful from establishing a genuine connection to God.
well said
31:50 He's basically describing the Peterson phenomenon right there.
yup
Sam can you please invite Dr Ed Siecienski on Filioque, Papacy, and Purgatory. He wrote a dissertation as a Catholic and converted to Eastern Orthodox.
19:00 "contamination of Christianity by power" -- brilliantly succinct as it is true
Agreed
This conversation was a treat! Good job, Sam. And thanks, Dr. McGrath.
thank you
Awesome Sam 🎉
Thanks Christian
Excellent conversation. Great questions and answers.
thanks for watching
Amazing!!!
Love Mcgrath and Sam
Thanks for watching!
Oh wow! Cool. You got a big shot: Dr Alister McGrath
Share with all your friends!
Really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks for sharing it.
thanks for listening!
Well done Sam! Good job making the obligatory PVK reference and also steering Dr. M into some CSL talk.
he found his way to CSL himself
Fantastic conversation, thank you Sam!
Thanks for listening
Great convo Sam!!!
Thanks Hank
Roll for savings throws vs British professor voice
I still don't understand this whole savings throws thing. I never played D&D
@transfigured3673 learn to do some due dilettantery!
The gist is that when you're trying to do something (say, lift a boulder) you roll a 20 sided die and add whatever modifiers you have (e.g. +2 strength). There will be a target number you have to match or exceed in order to "make your savings throw" (move the boulder), otherwise you "fail your savings throw" (and the boulder stays put).
In this context, the voice of a British professor has a powerful ability to make you believe what he's saying without necessarily checking it for yourself, so you're rolling for a savings throw of whether he deceives you or not. If you succeed, you catch him being dodgy about something. If you fail, you believe everything he says.
that was a very helpful explanation. Thanks!
30:20 if only there was a space where folks could come together and discuss ideas online 🙂
if only
Alister is underrated
agreed
Reflecting on the experiences of early Gentile believers in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries, it’s likely that the separation from the apostles and Jewish followers shaped their understanding of the gospel and Jesus. Unlike the Jews, who had a deep-rooted understanding of the Old Testament's themes and concepts, these early believers interpreted Christianity through their own cultural perspectives. And I believe this highlights the importance of embracing a traditional Hebraic interpretation of Genesis, particularly regarding Adam as a significant historical figure whose actions profoundly influenced humanity. Without this foundational context, one cannot fully grasp the transformative impact that Jesus as a sinless man (not a deity) had on changing the world through his righteous deeds sealed by his death and resurrection. Rather than framing Jesus within concepts like incarnation and evolution that stray from traditional Hebraic thought, its my hope that brave Jewish believers rise up to embrace their Messiah, Jesus, and help restore a genuine understanding of scripture to the world. I'm positive Biblical Unitarians are eager to offer their support.
How do any of these skeptical attacks help Sam's view? What sort of historical methodology leads to Unitarianism being true? Sam can't even find a non-trinitarian church to attend. Seems like Unitarianism is left holding the historical baggage.
Take a shot every time you hear a good question.
protip, don't or do if you have a liver donor in line
lol, i'll take that as a compliment
My favorite little book by McGrath is part of a series, the book is called Faith and Creeds
39:36 amen
The idea that there is a Darwinist survival of the fittest ideas is a category error. Animals compete for survival and breed in certain narrow ways. Memes, not so much. But fundamentally, I see it as wasteful polemic to go back centuries and fight old battles, as if Alternative History has a chance.
Ideas translate into action and action can be judged in terms of darwinian survival
@@transfigured3673 Hence why all monotheists should worship Ares/Mars ... like they do in Islam ;-)