I used the eye/face af on some White-tailed deer couple days ago. It definitely works on them. I had to be fairly close to them though. I have had much better bif luck with this new firmware in “normal” af modes. Still always have my d850 with me but I must admit that the z6 is a fun camera to use and has gotten much better with this new firmware. Great video! Thanks.
First off, thank you for sharing your expertise and experiences. I've been a professional photographer for 40 years and still love learning new things that help me get the most from my gear. :) The 3.0 firmware is a game changer for what I shoot on a regular basis. Every week I photograph the cats available for adoption at the local shelter and the Animal AF exceeds my expectations. Yes, black cats and tortoise don't focus as well (I just switch to Wide Area-Small) also, if the car rolls over on their back, the camera struggles to find the face (I assume it's looking for the ears or eyes and nose and the head upside down confuses the camera). I still shoot some higher education jobs in retirement and last week I headed into a painting class with my D850 to photograph the instructor working with a dozen advanced painting students in their cubicles. 15-minutes into the shoot I found myself missing the ability to track faces effectively and preview the exposure in backlit situations so I ran back to my vehicle and swapped out the D850 for the Z6. Nailing the exposure while shooting with the Z6 saved me a lot of time in post and kept the 4000-6400-ISO noise to a minimum. I was a lot less stressed knowing my exposures were good as the instructor moved from wildly differing lighting conditions and the client was thrilled with the fast turnaround and results. Can't wait to for 4.0 firmware. ;)
Koolbob2 it’s a welcome surprise that “firmware 4.0” actually sounds possible. Never liked Nikon’s software efforts as they often just would not support new OS releases with their desktop software even half a year after OS release and did not do much for their cameras via firmware updates. Would not believe they would be working on first Z cameras’ firmware this much. Actually builds trust and might change from my 2 x D750 someday.
I tried it this week and I agree with you, also it seems that when the subject is relatively small in the frame, no way you can get a lock. It is a massive improvement for video, really working well (again, not for birds in flight as you mentioned). Also worth mentioning that the result is very lens dependant. With the 5.6 pf it works much better than my old 300 f4 AF-S
I was reminded of your video on focusing a black bear. I don't remember the exact camera but it did have difficulty with totally black featureless subjects. The black cat sounds similar. Glad to hear its improving though. Thanks, always enjoy your videos and your E books.
Thanks Steve. I was going to trade in my D500 for a Z6. But as my main subjects are BIF, I'll heed your advice. I'm somewhat confident that Nikon will again improve their mirrorless AF. The Sony A9ii still seems to have the major edge on its competitors.
100% agree - I'm not there yet with my Z7 - it will not replace my D5/D850 combo for action. I am interested to explore video on the Z's with n-log and raw out into a Ninja V .
It's gotten weird out there. Some people are blindly fanatical about their camera brand and anything negative gets greeted like that - even if it's true. It's like they are rooting for their favorite football team or something.
Agreed. Works ok with 500pf but it seems to work noticably better with a native Z lens, and seems to be sticker on the subject. I think the next iteration of this camera along with a native Z telephoto lens will be much closer to competing with the likes of D850/D500.
@@bosskoron6178 I doubt it - it's way too early to discount anyone. Nikon may surprise us and blow everyone away - or they may flop - there's no one who knows. (And if they claim they do know, they'd probably lie to you about others things as well :)
Great review! You provide the best resource I know of when it comes to Nikon gear. I love many things about the Nikon Z7 and bought one early on. But after a week, I reluctantly returned it because of its limitations for wildlife and bird photography. I hope Nikon keeps improving the Z7.
10:10 thank god im not alone with that. Cranes are my sworn enemies due to this focus switching into infinity or into the background. Heads are too small for the autofocus field and boom, the camera hunts for the woods
Great video. I spent a long time today shooting with my 500MM F/5.6E lens and v3.00 firmware; your video confirms my impressions from the day. I never tried using Wide-area AF (S) or (L) before but those modes worked great when there was an uncluttered background behind the bird, i.e. open sky. My impression is you're right: Nikon isn't quite there yet with subject tracking in telephoto lenses. But v3.00 leaves me hopeful.
100% my impressions. The Z7 is the best Nikon ever for what I do (40 years with Nikon) but the new tracking while improved tracks only slow stuff with deterministic background. Other AF methods do better. Still work to do Nikon
Excellent informative video again Steve. On the basis of your experience with the latest firmware I think it is now time for me to invest in the Z system as a backup to my D850. Please keep up the great work.
I think that's the best way to use the Zs right now - not as a replacement, but as a second body. There are times I prefer the Zs, other times I want my D5 / D850.
Hi Steve. Can you make a short video, if the actual update for Z6/Z7 solved some of the issues you pointed in this video? It would be very nice. Thanks for great content! (Sorry for my english)
I wonder if this eye/facial recognition concept will ever work well with wildlife. Wild animals have evolved color and contrast camouflage to prevent this very thing by their predator/prey counterparts. I can see it working on animals that don't depend on camouflage but, those that do not so much. It seems a pretty daunting task to write software that could figure it out. It's out-foxing evolution.
I think it will eventually - but I don't think it will be anytime soon. Sony's a9ii actually does OK with it - it sees a LOT more wildlife eyes than the Nikon does, but there's no way I'd rely on it for a critical shot.
There will eventually be autofocus hardware based on deep learning models of an “infinite” amount of scenes that will improve tracking accuracy beyond our wildest imaginations, basically the hardware algorithm will be preprogrammed to know about all types of subjects and their likeliest movement patterns. There are already visual AI systems that can add an analytical layer on moving images in real world application, for example security systems.
My findings are pretty similar to yours. I shoot pets and taking action shots with the Z6 just doesn't get the results I am looking for. The results are much better with a D5 or D500 and the tougher the environment the bigger the difference in favor of the DSLRs. Still gotta give Nikon credit, it's much better. When Nikon finally introduces a pro body I am now convinced it will equal or surpass my DSLRs, much like the Sony A9/A9II. I am looking forward to that day, because moving to Sony would be mighty expensive. I would need at least two Sony A9 II's and a native 70-200 (need best possible AF for that lens as it is used most for action), plus eventually adding glass for other focal lengths (may not have to be native, would have to test). The cost would be minimum 11k-14k if purchased new. Even used, its more than I want to spend right now, so hoping to Nikon delivers a pro camera and I can slowly move over using much of my Nikon F-mount glass. I am positive Nikon will deliver before I need to replace my current DSLR's.
Thanks Steve , a great insight into the mirrorless world for wildlife shooters. I was really interested in trying out this new tech but then it turns out that the cons far outweigh the pros. Looks like my dinosaurs ain’t going anywhere anytime soon. Still some time needed for mirrorless to reach wildlife shooting approval. No wonder Nikon and Canon still fully support the mirrored bodies and continue to develop new glass for them. Again thanks for your efforts God bless
Thanks! I think right now the best way to use a Z is as a backup to a solid DSLR system. There really are some things I prefer the Z for, others, DSLRs. Although, I can do everything with a D850 too :)
All fair points. I'm looking for a recommendation I have a D850 currently and it's great, however, I am photographing wildlife in quiet places and the mirror slap is disturbing them - second camera suggestions please
I use the Z6 with sigma 150-600 c and I find with this third party lens, the eye af didn't work with the two family dogs. One is black and white. The other is light brown and white. However, I find the tracking locks on very good. But, don't stick for very long. I lock on shoot, then relock on and shoot again. Good for birds taking off. But not so much in flight.
Great video. I am jumping from a micro 4/3 Lumix 60X zoom to a APS-C or full frame camera. I mainly shoot birds in a tree or on the ground but want to do some birds in flight. I don't have any glass so want to get a Tamron 150-600 and a budget friendly body. I am looking at a D500 or the Z6. This is hobby shooting and mainly birds. Since I am starting from scratch am I better using the Z6 due to a full frame sensor or the D500 which will give better tracking shots. I love the idea of no shutter noise and understand I will have some misses on the tracking. I mainly want something that is sharp and pickup some in flight shots when I get the chance. Your thoughts.
Not sure - I have a feeling it's more software than hardware related though. The truth is, if the Z series would prioritize close subjects the way DSLRs typically do, many of the AF problems would be gone.
Great work Steve! Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm resisting the urge to migrate to the Z system until I become confident of hit performs in wildlife shooting. I'm impressed with Nikon's rapid improvements.
Hi Steve, is there also a possibility to pay it thrue ... I-deal. In the netherlands and europe that is the preferred way of paying. thanks, i love your tutorials
subbed!! In your opinion, if you had to choose one over the others, which regular AF mode do you prefer for BIF? I was having some good luck with dynamic area AF but in the video i saw you use the wide area small in the video to track a BIF. Thanks!
It seems to vary a bit depending on the conditions. If I can more or less keep a single point on the bird, I like Dynamic. However, if things are moving faster I prefer the wide area (the wide-large area is too big most of the time). Auto can work well too if there's a lot of separation between the subject and background, although exactly where on the bird id decides to focus is a little unpredictable.
Hi Steve, Thanks for sharing your findings about the new firmware capabilities, in fact, it's the first review that I see somebody going to field test with wildlife (or sports). Based on your experience, I would be grateful if you could advise on the best AF setting/mode on the Z cameras, for wildlife/sports, apart from the "new" tracking one. Thank you!
BIF. Steve, you recommend not using track modus for the pelican when trees in background. The Nikon DSLRs with group focus would have kept focus on the pelican. With AF on Z7 in normal mode, you only showed a gull in flight with even background. So what precise AF-setup would you recommend with the Z-models for keeping focus of a BIF when you have uneven background?
Read your BBAF mirrorless article. Great points in there. Do you think version 3.0 with the tracking mode changes anything about that. Seems like everything you said would still stand.
Thanks for this review Steve....you mention the sony mirrorless system....If you were buying into a system now, would you still go Nikon D850 etc, or would you invest instead in the Sony Mirrorless system?
Sony for sure. The a9ii and a7r4 are where I wish Nikon mirrorless was and the a9ii actually seems better overall (AF, frame rate, buffer) than the D5. However, ask me in a year and my answer may be different :)
A bit disappointed myself Steve. I’m actually doing a soccer game this afternoon and hope to try it out in a sports environment. I will however have my D500 & D5 with me just in case. Oh btw, good excuse for a field trip. LOL
I have a feeling tracking will work a LOT better in that environment since the subjects are significantly different from the background. Let me know if you think of it - I'm very curious.
Hi Steve! Great videos and youtube channel. I come to ask about your experience or your perception. I am between the nikon z50 or the d7500. my current bird kit is a d5300 + afs 300mm non vr + 1.4x teleconverter. Greetings from Chile!!
Steve, it seems like Nikon left the old way of doing tracking in the camera as opposed to totally replacing it with the new (better) method? I thought that was odd unless my Z7 is acting screwy.
Please excuse this being off subject but I value your opinion. I'm just getting into bird/wildlife photography and am torn over whether to invest in a tripod gimbal as opposed to going handheld. I am using a Sony a7III with the Sony 200-600mm. Have you done a video on this subject? Thanks. Hope to hear your thoughts.
I tend to agree with the other poster to a point - try hand-held and see how it goes. However, at some point you'll very likely want a tripod - eventually something happens and the light is too low to hand-hold.
Hi Steve, I wanted to ask you, I have already the D850 and 810, but want to get another body, I want to ask you what would you go for if you had the choice between the Z6 and Z7 also bear in mind that there will be a Z8 coming out as well soon I think, my photography is mostly people photography but have really taken an interest in wildlife, thanks in advance Alan
Hello Steve, You definitely carry a lot of weight for Nikon. From the ownership of several cameras and the in depth reviews that you offer in your channel, does Nikon pay attention of all your inputs? I hope they do, because by improving all the information you gather as a professional wildlife photographer, Nikon can improve on the software and gain market share once everything works well for many photographers. I have a question for you if you don't mind? How do you grade between the D-850 and the Z7? Do you see yourself eventually migrating to the Z system completely? Today 9/22/2020 I had a chance to visit the local photo store in Portland Oregon and I was told that the Z7 and the adapter come together in the package and there is a $300.00 dollars instant rebate which brings the price to $2500.00 dollars. I am tempted to purchase it which also will incur some expense for the XQD card and reader which isn't cheap but I handled the card and definitely feels very rugged. Like I said in my previous response in your channel I have been inclined towards the D-850 and after feeling the Z7 and handling it it is a well built machine that needs adjustments as you mentioned. Currently the D-850 is still selling like the day it was introduced, even the used one's they are asking for the same price of a new Z7 and the adapter as I mentioned here. Your thoughts? Thanks Steve, cheers.
Thanks for the kind words. And no, Nikon doesn't NOT pay me in any way - I can't even get a contact there! They really don't seem to know / care that I exist, but that's fine - it's better not to be sponsored, I can keep my opinions real :) Rumor has it that the "s" version of the Z6 and Z7 will likely be announced in October, so I'd hold off and see unless you absolutely needed a new camera right now. I think they'll be more more capable. (Well, I hope anyway)
The Face and Eye AF has the same issue with darker skin people as well. This seems to be a recurring issue with any type of facial recognition. I also find that auto area AF doesn't pick up what I'm trying to get often, and usually sticks to something along the edges. They should add an option to prioritize the center AF stacks in a later firmware. Maybe this is why DSLRs are often perceived to have better AF when their AF points are often clumped together in the center (for Nikon at least).
Many thanks Steve Unfortunately Nikon focus system is very poor and all of them is low and bad copy of Sony Auto focus system. I hope you one day review Sony auto focus system and explain it. I learned all of my knowledge from your videos.
What about if you get super close to the animal? I recently took a picture of a Swainson's Hawk perched on a fence post. The bird was only about 40 feet away. It was pretty insane how close the hawk let me get. In such a scenario, the bird's eye is so prominent, I wonder if it wouldn't pick up on it. I was thinking how handy eye detect would be, because I could just focus on my framing and not even worry about the focus point.
I shot an owl from about 28 feet and it didn't see the eye. It just isn't designed for birds at this time. It may get lucky now and then, but I wouldn't rely on it. Sony and Canon do have this down however and it works as you describe most of the time.
Hi Steve. Ok! You convinced me in one of your videos to try back button focusing. I am trying to figure out how this works with eye detection in both AF-S and AF-C. Eye detect just finds the eye but doesn't focus on it, right? We still have to press the AF on button, right? Just a lite confused. Appreciate your clarity.
Excellent review of the performance of the Z6/7 for wildlife. I also find object tracking to be highly ineffective and especially so in comparison to dynamic and/or area modes for moving subjects. Some shots, like many warblers, may present them selves once a year or even once a decade and having to rely on this tracking mode is not an option. Shame on Nikon! Again, thankfully, I find the reliance on the dynamic/small area combination to be a reasonably effective alternative as is using my A9 instead.
Ja, das ist meines Wissens auch so - in diesem Fall ist er allerdings nicht in einem der „normalen“ AF Area modes wie Wide L oder S, sondern im Tracking Subject Mode des Auto Area AF. Da scheint es keine Vordergrund Priorität zu geben.
They sort of do - but I roundly find them focusing behind the closest thing in the frame. Birds shoulders instead of heads, backgrounds instead of something in the foreground, etc.
@@garfieldirwin Honestly, I'm not even sure if single point is close-focus priority - it's just that the same size kind of makes it act like that most of the time :)
@13:00 the text says your Sonys have been exceptional for wildlife. Do you have any reviews/videos of them? Also have you tried any of their APS-C offerings?
I may in the future. I have not tried the APS-C cameras, just the full frame. Just getting started, but shooting my a9ii side by side with the Z7 is an eye opener (the Sony is drastically ahead at the moment).
Maybe your observations are correct for birds (as opposed to "wildlife" in general). A good, and difficult test, would be bear, buffalo, zebra, moose/elk, lions (and other big cats), etc. Typically they are slow moving
I think for slower moving subjects, the tracking feature would work well. I'd be cautious of eye-AF with those subjects though. I'll continue to test as time goes on - only so many places I can visit to produce a (somewhat) timely video. If I tried everything from bears to zebras, I wouldn't have the video finished before the next firmware update :)
I’ve been using a Nikon D750 for a while now and was thinking of switching to the the Z6 to eventually upgrade some of my lenses to Z glass, Do you know how the AF compares to the 750 after this firmware upgrade?
I am actually annoyed that Nikon got such a pass on how bad the AF was. I think the general public is just starting to realize how bad it was. Sony and to a lesser extent, fuji, got nailed to a cross for how bad their AF tracking was. Me included. My A7ii couldn’t track my kids running toward me. I almost switched to a Z6 recently because I feel everyone has been sugar coating just how bad it was. I’ll be sticking with my DSLRs a little longer. I can always count on Steve Perry to shoot straight on the ACTUAL performance of gear! Thanks Steve!
What camera and tele lens combination would you recommend for under $3500? From the perspective of a wildlife photographer I mean. I like Nikon but I'm open to Sony as well.
I'm a little late to this video but do you think there will be more firmware updates that would address these issues. I am trying to decide which camera to get the Z7 or the D850 - landscape and animal photography?
No way to know. I think part of it is processing power though - and that can't really be addressed with firmware. The trick though is how much of each type of photography do you do? For landscapes, I love the Z7 and I will never go back to a DSLR. However, for action, the Z cameras fall a bit short. So, if you're doing landscapes and mostly static wildlife, the Z might be a good choice. If it's mostly animals - some with action, and just a landscape here and there, the D850 is the better option.
@@backcountrygallery Thanks for replying - it's mainly dolphins and sunsets, some wading birds along with flat lay & portraits. I have old Nikon glass, so I would need the adapter on the Z7 not sure if that will cause big issues as it's mainly manual focus? The weight of the D850 after a recent broken wrist is concerning but I am 60/40 towards the DSLR.
I think both. It's terribly hard to really evaluate AF - too many variables. It seems to me that normal AF has improved, but without using one camera with 2.0 and one with 3.0 it's hard to say 100% for sure (and even then there are likely too many variables). As for tracking, it really depends - it has its uses.
Hmm...I still keep some of my lenses from my Nikon times in hope of seeing something really good in mirrorless from Nikon. Primarily for Wildlife. So far the Nikon Z6 and Z7 are...really so so. Especially when it comes to small birds and BIF's. For me it is not really useable, especially when you face difficult low light situations. It is that simple: where my Sony gets the shot the Nikon Z6 will miss it. So lets wait and see what Nikon eventually brings out this year as the Z8 (if this camera is really coming).
That's the thing - it's not so much that the Z series can't get the shot - I already have quite a few I really like from my trip - it's that Sony gets the shot more often. I too am looking forward to the Z8 - can't wait to see what it brings to the table.
Mostly a 500PF. Keep in mind I'm testing it with wildlife and Nikon doesn't have anything longer than 85mm available for full- frame mirrorless yet (the 70-200 still isn't here). While I think a native lens might focus faster, not sure if it would have helped with the other issues.
@@buffmaloney Once longer native lenses come out it will be interesting to see. However, I think the deficiency is more in processing power than anything with the lens.
@@backcountrygallery One thing I have learned is that the S glass is better than the F glass. The 85 1.8 and 50 1.8 beat the F 85 and 50 1.4, and even beat the Sigma Art in total image quality. Sharper, less flare, less CA. So maybe it will make a difference. Keep us informed. Have a great day.
such level of honesty and informativiy can never be achieved with those brand ambassadors
I used the eye/face af on some White-tailed deer couple days ago. It definitely works on them. I had to be fairly close to them though. I have had much better bif luck with this new firmware in “normal” af modes. Still always have my d850 with me but I must admit that the z6 is a fun camera to use and has gotten much better with this new firmware. Great video! Thanks.
Best reviews around, I’m a huge fan of your work!
You're the best, Steve! Every time I see you have a new video I'm happy.
Very Nice Presentation, thank you for sharing your experiences and opinion regarding the Nikon Z-series... VERY helpful!
First off, thank you for sharing your expertise and experiences. I've been a professional photographer for 40 years and still love learning new things that help me get the most from my gear. :) The 3.0 firmware is a game changer for what I shoot on a regular basis. Every week I photograph the cats available for adoption at the local shelter and the Animal AF exceeds my expectations. Yes, black cats and tortoise don't focus as well (I just switch to Wide Area-Small) also, if the car rolls over on their back, the camera struggles to find the face (I assume it's looking for the ears or eyes and nose and the head upside down confuses the camera). I still shoot some higher education jobs in retirement and last week I headed into a painting class with my D850 to photograph the instructor working with a dozen advanced painting students in their cubicles. 15-minutes into the shoot I found myself missing the ability to track faces effectively and preview the exposure in backlit situations so I ran back to my vehicle and swapped out the D850 for the Z6. Nailing the exposure while shooting with the Z6 saved me a lot of time in post and kept the 4000-6400-ISO noise to a minimum. I was a lot less stressed knowing my exposures were good as the instructor moved from wildly differing lighting conditions and the client was thrilled with the fast turnaround and results. Can't wait to for 4.0 firmware. ;)
Koolbob2 it’s a welcome surprise that “firmware 4.0” actually sounds possible. Never liked Nikon’s software efforts as they often just would not support new OS releases with their desktop software even half a year after OS release and did not do much for their cameras via firmware updates. Would not believe they would be working on first Z cameras’ firmware this much. Actually builds trust and might change from my 2 x D750 someday.
So close to pulling the trigger on a Z6 purchase. Mostly do wildlife and some landscape. Have a 10 yo aps-c and want to upgrade. Love this channel!
The D500 and D850 are relative bargains right now
You are the best Nikon reviewer on RUclips
Thanks for this Steve. Your videos are some of the very best on YT whether for beginners or professionals. Keep up the good work mate!
I tried it this week and I agree with you, also it seems that when the subject is relatively small in the frame, no way you can get a lock. It is a massive improvement for video, really working well (again, not for birds in flight as you mentioned). Also worth mentioning that the result is very lens dependant. With the 5.6 pf it works much better than my old 300 f4 AF-S
I was reminded of your video on focusing a black bear. I don't remember the exact camera but it did have difficulty with totally black featureless subjects. The black cat sounds similar. Glad to hear its improving though. Thanks, always enjoy your videos and your E books.
Very instructive review. Appreciate you taking the time for real-world testing instead of just reporting from the desk like 99% of "reviews".
Thanks Steve. I was going to trade in my D500 for a Z6. But as my main subjects are BIF, I'll heed your advice. I'm somewhat confident that Nikon will again improve their mirrorless AF. The Sony A9ii still seems to have the major edge on its competitors.
Thanks for this review. I am still keeping my D850 and D500 but I look forward to better performance from my Z7.
100% agree - I'm not there yet with my Z7 - it will not replace my D5/D850 combo for action. I am interested to explore video on the Z's with n-log and raw out into a Ninja V .
5:45 I have being saying that since 2018 and people call me a “Nikon hater”. But anyways I am glad that Nikon listened and fixed the implementation.
It's gotten weird out there. Some people are blindly fanatical about their camera brand and anything negative gets greeted like that - even if it's true. It's like they are rooting for their favorite football team or something.
Agreed. Works ok with 500pf but it seems to work noticably better with a native Z lens, and seems to be sticker on the subject. I think the next iteration of this camera along with a native Z telephoto lens will be much closer to competing with the likes of D850/D500.
Everyone needs to remember this is Nikon’s first proper Mirrorless Camera effort. In a few years these Z bodies will be awesome.
Absolutely ..They are brilliant already ..Z Mount and those S Lenses !!! Wow
I tend to agree. Overall, I really do like the Z cameras and I'm glad to see they keep getting better.
@@backcountrygallery What do you think about Canon 5R release? Will be Nikon out of the game?
They are already awesome.
@@bosskoron6178 I doubt it - it's way too early to discount anyone. Nikon may surprise us and blow everyone away - or they may flop - there's no one who knows. (And if they claim they do know, they'd probably lie to you about others things as well :)
Man, your videos are so good. I miss the podcast but these videos and your books keep me feeling informed. Keep it up!
Hi Steve, great video as usual! Do you by any chance have a review of the z50? Wonder how it compares to 7500.
Nope - but I did just buy one. :)
@@backcountrygallery well I know you're busy but I'm sure there are more than a few of us that would love to hear your thoughts. 👍🏻
Nicely done video. Always good to get gear reports from real world situations.
Thanks for a wildlife shooter's perspective! Most reviews are for sports or portrait shooters so nice to hear your take.
Great review! You provide the best resource I know of when it comes to Nikon gear. I love many things about the Nikon Z7 and bought one early on. But after a week, I reluctantly returned it because of its limitations for wildlife and bird photography. I hope Nikon keeps improving the Z7.
10:10 thank god im not alone with that.
Cranes are my sworn enemies due to this focus switching into infinity or into the background. Heads are too small for the autofocus field and boom, the camera hunts for the woods
Happens with DSLR's too. They are hard to lock!
Great video. I spent a long time today shooting with my 500MM F/5.6E lens and v3.00 firmware; your video confirms my impressions from the day. I never tried using Wide-area AF (S) or (L) before but those modes worked great when there was an uncluttered background behind the bird, i.e. open sky.
My impression is you're right: Nikon isn't quite there yet with subject tracking in telephoto lenses. But v3.00 leaves me hopeful.
Looking forward to your D-6 review once it is in hand as well as your set up for wildlife.
100% my impressions. The Z7 is the best Nikon ever for what I do (40 years with Nikon) but the new tracking while improved tracks only slow stuff with deterministic background. Other AF methods do better. Still work to do Nikon
Excellent informative video again Steve. On the basis of your experience with the latest firmware I think it is now time for me to invest in the Z system as a backup to my D850. Please keep up the great work.
I think that's the best way to use the Zs right now - not as a replacement, but as a second body. There are times I prefer the Zs, other times I want my D5 / D850.
Hello! Would U have a complete setup guide for the z7 for wildlife, that will be very helpful!
was hoping you would do this....Thanks. much appreciated
Hi Steve. Can you make a short video, if the actual update for Z6/Z7 solved some of the issues you pointed in this video? It would be very nice. Thanks for great content! (Sorry for my english)
I wonder if this eye/facial recognition concept will ever work well with wildlife. Wild animals have evolved color and contrast camouflage to prevent this very thing by their predator/prey counterparts. I can see it working on animals that don't depend on camouflage but, those that do not so much. It seems a pretty daunting task to write software that could figure it out. It's out-foxing evolution.
I think it will eventually - but I don't think it will be anytime soon. Sony's a9ii actually does OK with it - it sees a LOT more wildlife eyes than the Nikon does, but there's no way I'd rely on it for a critical shot.
There will eventually be autofocus hardware based on deep learning models of an “infinite” amount of scenes that will improve tracking accuracy beyond our wildest imaginations, basically the hardware algorithm will be preprogrammed to know about all types of subjects and their likeliest movement patterns. There are already visual AI systems that can add an analytical layer on moving images in real world application, for example security systems.
eye AF and tracking works fine if subject is big in frame. either you need to be close or use longer lens. otherwise it is not good
My findings are pretty similar to yours. I shoot pets and taking action shots with the Z6 just doesn't get the results I am looking for. The results are much better with a D5 or D500 and the tougher the environment the bigger the difference in favor of the DSLRs.
Still gotta give Nikon credit, it's much better. When Nikon finally introduces a pro body I am now convinced it will equal or surpass my DSLRs, much like the Sony A9/A9II.
I am looking forward to that day, because moving to Sony would be mighty expensive. I would need at least two Sony A9 II's and a native 70-200 (need best possible AF for that lens as it is used most for action), plus eventually adding glass for other focal lengths (may not have to be native, would have to test). The cost would be minimum 11k-14k if purchased new. Even used, its more than I want to spend right now, so hoping to Nikon delivers a pro camera and I can slowly move over using much of my Nikon F-mount glass. I am positive Nikon will deliver before I need to replace my current DSLR's.
Thanks Steve , a great insight into the mirrorless world for wildlife shooters. I was really interested in trying out this new tech but then it turns out that the cons far outweigh the pros. Looks like my dinosaurs ain’t going anywhere anytime soon. Still some time needed for mirrorless to reach wildlife shooting approval. No wonder Nikon and Canon still fully support the mirrored bodies and continue to develop new glass for them.
Again thanks for your efforts
God bless
Thanks! I think right now the best way to use a Z is as a backup to a solid DSLR system. There really are some things I prefer the Z for, others, DSLRs. Although, I can do everything with a D850 too :)
All fair points. I'm looking for a recommendation
I have a D850 currently and it's great, however, I am photographing wildlife in quiet places and the mirror slap is disturbing them - second camera suggestions please
I use the Z6 with sigma 150-600 c and I find with this third party lens, the eye af didn't work with the two family dogs. One is black and white. The other is light brown and white. However, I find the tracking locks on very good. But, don't stick for very long. I lock on shoot, then relock on and shoot again. Good for birds taking off. But not so much in flight.
Top practical review.Respect.
Great video. I am jumping from a micro 4/3 Lumix 60X zoom to a APS-C or full frame camera. I mainly shoot birds in a tree or on the ground but want to do some birds in flight. I don't have any glass so want to get a Tamron 150-600 and a budget friendly body. I am looking at a D500 or the Z6. This is hobby shooting and mainly birds. Since I am starting from scratch am I better using the Z6 due to a full frame sensor or the D500 which will give better tracking shots. I love the idea of no shutter noise and understand I will have some misses on the tracking. I mainly want something that is sharp and pickup some in flight shots when I get the chance. Your thoughts.
Thanks for posting this. Just what I was looking for.
Anytime :)
Great video, Steve. Thank you. From an engineering perspective, what allows Nikon DSLR autofocus systems to outperform their mirrorless counterparts?
Not sure - I have a feeling it's more software than hardware related though. The truth is, if the Z series would prioritize close subjects the way DSLRs typically do, many of the AF problems would be gone.
Hey Steve great video, which foot are you using for the 500PF?
Right to the points, and concise. No fluff (minus black cat), Thnx!
Great work Steve! Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm resisting the urge to migrate to the Z system until I become confident of hit performs in wildlife shooting. I'm impressed with Nikon's rapid improvements.
I'm impressed as well - they seem to be going in the right direction :)
Maybe Nikon could hire Sony's A9 engineers. :) Great review, Steve. Thanks.
LOL :) I think Nikon will get there.
Honest and straightforward review!!
Hi Steve, is there also a possibility to pay it thrue ... I-deal. In the netherlands and europe that is the preferred way of paying. thanks, i love your tutorials
subbed!!
In your opinion, if you had to choose one over the others, which regular AF mode do you prefer for BIF? I was having some good luck with dynamic area AF but in the video i saw you use the wide area small in the video to track a BIF.
Thanks!
It seems to vary a bit depending on the conditions. If I can more or less keep a single point on the bird, I like Dynamic. However, if things are moving faster I prefer the wide area (the wide-large area is too big most of the time). Auto can work well too if there's a lot of separation between the subject and background, although exactly where on the bird id decides to focus is a little unpredictable.
Hi Steve,
Thanks for sharing your findings about the new firmware capabilities, in fact, it's the first review that I see somebody going to field test with wildlife (or sports).
Based on your experience, I would be grateful if you could advise on the best AF setting/mode on the Z cameras, for wildlife/sports, apart from the "new" tracking one.
Thank you!
I'm favoring the wide areas for action right now (mostly Wide(S)), AF-C of course. 5.5 FPS (extended is too hard to track).
@@backcountrygallery Many thanks Steve!!!
BIF. Steve, you recommend not using track modus for the pelican when trees in background. The Nikon DSLRs with group focus would have kept focus on the pelican. With AF on Z7 in normal mode, you only showed a gull in flight with even background. So what precise AF-setup would you recommend with the Z-models for keeping focus of a BIF when you have uneven background?
The wide areas actually work better than the tracking mode. I like Wide (S). It (mostly) has close-focus priority.
great job and as always detailed reviews !
Read your BBAF mirrorless article. Great points in there. Do you think version 3.0 with the tracking mode changes anything about that. Seems like everything you said would still stand.
Yup, I actually wrote the article about a month after I did this video. So, I had it in mind :)
I just bought the Nikon z6 and I love it but honestly my D500 is killer at wildlife and sports
Thanks for this review Steve....you mention the sony mirrorless system....If you were buying into a system now, would you still go Nikon D850 etc, or would you invest instead in the Sony Mirrorless system?
Sony for sure. The a9ii and a7r4 are where I wish Nikon mirrorless was and the a9ii actually seems better overall (AF, frame rate, buffer) than the D5. However, ask me in a year and my answer may be different :)
A bit disappointed myself Steve. I’m actually doing a soccer game this afternoon and hope to try it out in a sports environment. I will however have my D500 & D5 with me just in case. Oh btw, good excuse for a field trip. LOL
I have a feeling tracking will work a LOT better in that environment since the subjects are significantly different from the background. Let me know if you think of it - I'm very curious.
what camera you use in this video bro? its very nice
Thanks - the Z6
Hi Steve! Great videos and youtube channel. I come to ask about your experience or your perception. I am between the nikon z50 or the d7500. my current bird kit is a d5300 + afs 300mm non vr + 1.4x teleconverter. Greetings from Chile!!
Those two cameras are close. I think for action I'd still favor the D7500 by a bit though. For still however, I like the Z50 better.
Steve, it seems like Nikon left the old way of doing tracking in the camera as opposed to totally replacing it with the new (better) method? I thought that was odd unless my Z7 is acting screwy.
Please excuse this being off subject but I value your opinion. I'm just getting into bird/wildlife photography and am torn over whether to invest in a tripod gimbal as opposed to going handheld. I am using a Sony a7III with the Sony 200-600mm. Have you done a video on this subject? Thanks. Hope to hear your thoughts.
Steve Loudon First go handheld and see how it does for you. You could always invest whenever you like
I tend to agree with the other poster to a point - try hand-held and see how it goes. However, at some point you'll very likely want a tripod - eventually something happens and the light is too low to hand-hold.
@@backcountrygallery thanks for the quick reply
Hi Steve, I wanted to ask you, I have already the D850 and 810, but want to get another body, I want to ask you what would you go for if you had the choice between the Z6 and Z7 also bear in mind that there will be a Z8 coming out as well soon I think, my photography is mostly people photography but have really taken an interest in wildlife, thanks in advance
Alan
Thanks, this is the review I was watching for.
Hello Steve, You definitely carry a lot of weight for Nikon. From the ownership of several cameras and the in depth reviews that you offer in your channel, does Nikon pay attention of all your inputs? I hope they do, because by improving all the information you gather as a professional wildlife photographer, Nikon can improve on the software and gain market share once everything works well for many photographers.
I have a question for you if you don't mind? How do you grade between the D-850 and the Z7? Do you see yourself eventually migrating to the Z system completely?
Today 9/22/2020 I had a chance to visit the local photo store in Portland Oregon and I was told that the Z7 and the adapter come together in the package and there is a $300.00 dollars instant rebate which brings the price to $2500.00 dollars. I am tempted to purchase it which also will incur some expense for the XQD card and reader which isn't cheap but I handled the card and definitely feels very rugged.
Like I said in my previous response in your channel I have been inclined towards the D-850 and after feeling the Z7 and handling it it is a well built machine that needs adjustments as you mentioned. Currently the D-850 is still selling like the day it was introduced, even the used one's they are asking for the same price of a new Z7 and the adapter as I mentioned here. Your thoughts?
Thanks Steve, cheers.
Thanks for the kind words. And no, Nikon doesn't NOT pay me in any way - I can't even get a contact there! They really don't seem to know / care that I exist, but that's fine - it's better not to be sponsored, I can keep my opinions real :)
Rumor has it that the "s" version of the Z6 and Z7 will likely be announced in October, so I'd hold off and see unless you absolutely needed a new camera right now. I think they'll be more more capable. (Well, I hope anyway)
@@backcountrygallery Thanks Steve appreciate it.
Great information, keep educating us
The Face and Eye AF has the same issue with darker skin people as well. This seems to be a recurring issue with any type of facial recognition. I also find that auto area AF doesn't pick up what I'm trying to get often, and usually sticks to something along the edges. They should add an option to prioritize the center AF stacks in a later firmware. Maybe this is why DSLRs are often perceived to have better AF when their AF points are often clumped together in the center (for Nikon at least).
Great video Steve ..Very informative
Many thanks Steve
Unfortunately Nikon focus system is very poor and all of them is low and bad copy of Sony Auto focus system.
I hope you one day review Sony auto focus system and explain it.
I learned all of my knowledge from your videos.
What about if you get super close to the animal? I recently took a picture of a Swainson's Hawk perched on a fence post. The bird was only about 40 feet away. It was pretty insane how close the hawk let me get. In such a scenario, the bird's eye is so prominent, I wonder if it wouldn't pick up on it.
I was thinking how handy eye detect would be, because I could just focus on my framing and not even worry about the focus point.
I shot an owl from about 28 feet and it didn't see the eye. It just isn't designed for birds at this time. It may get lucky now and then, but I wouldn't rely on it. Sony and Canon do have this down however and it works as you describe most of the time.
Steve, do you know if the AF improvements in firmware 3.4 improved the situation any? Im considering replacing my D800 with the Z6.
I'm interested as well, pulled the trigger on a Z7 yesterday
Great info and Thanks for sharing!
Hi Steve. Ok! You convinced me in one of your videos to try back button focusing. I am trying to figure out how this works with eye detection in both AF-S and AF-C. Eye detect just finds the eye but doesn't focus on it, right? We still have to press the AF on button, right? Just a lite confused. Appreciate your clarity.
It finds the eye - and - if you have AF engaged, it does focus on it.
Excellent review of the performance of the Z6/7 for wildlife. I also find object tracking to be highly ineffective and especially so in comparison to dynamic and/or area modes for moving subjects. Some shots, like many warblers, may present them selves once a year or even once a decade and having to rely on this tracking mode is not an option. Shame on Nikon! Again, thankfully, I find the reliance on the dynamic/small area combination to be a reasonably effective alternative as is using my A9 instead.
I agree - Nikon has a lot of catching up to do compared to the a9's tracking.
9:51 about close subject priority: I thought the wide-area modes have close-subject-priority? At least they kinda behave like that
Ja, das ist meines Wissens auch so - in diesem Fall ist er allerdings nicht in einem der „normalen“ AF Area modes wie Wide L oder S, sondern im Tracking Subject Mode des Auto Area AF. Da scheint es keine Vordergrund Priorität zu geben.
amicx Ah okay, ich dachte in dem Fall meint er das allgemein auf alle AF-Modi der Z Modelle bezogen, deswegen hab ich mich gewundert
They sort of do - but I roundly find them focusing behind the closest thing in the frame. Birds shoulders instead of heads, backgrounds instead of something in the foreground, etc.
@@backcountrygallery Exactly Steve -- unfortunately none of the C-AF modes work like "closest priority" save for single point.
@@garfieldirwin Honestly, I'm not even sure if single point is close-focus priority - it's just that the same size kind of makes it act like that most of the time :)
@13:00 the text says your Sonys have been exceptional for wildlife. Do you have any reviews/videos of them? Also have you tried any of their APS-C offerings?
I may in the future. I have not tried the APS-C cameras, just the full frame. Just getting started, but shooting my a9ii side by side with the Z7 is an eye opener (the Sony is drastically ahead at the moment).
Thinking of switching to mirrorless, and I do quite a bit of wildlife photography. What's a good model for that? Which Sonys do you have?
I thought I've seen the best review the best review but this is a good one
SIR, on full frame body if we use 200 f2.8 & 400 f5.6 the effect of background blur remains the same or 200 f2.8 gives more background blur.
Maybe your observations are correct for birds (as opposed to "wildlife" in general). A good, and difficult test, would be bear, buffalo, zebra, moose/elk, lions (and other big cats), etc. Typically they are slow moving
I think for slower moving subjects, the tracking feature would work well. I'd be cautious of eye-AF with those subjects though. I'll continue to test as time goes on - only so many places I can visit to produce a (somewhat) timely video. If I tried everything from bears to zebras, I wouldn't have the video finished before the next firmware update :)
I’ve been using a Nikon D750 for a while now and was thinking of switching to the the Z6 to eventually upgrade some of my lenses to Z glass, Do you know how the AF compares to the 750 after this firmware upgrade?
love it just from the theme music!
Good review, thank you!
Spot on assessment.
Could you try the autofocus with native Z glass? I've heard that it's communication bus is 10x faster!
Wonder if you found Z6 being superior in focusing capability to Z7. Is D850 still doing them all, jack of all trades for Nikon shooter?
In my experience, they are about the same. I like the Z7 a bit better because the single point AF area mode is smaller than it is in the Z6.
My cameras have a hard time focusing on my black cat as well!
Thanks for the informative analysis of the firmware update. I was wondering what lens you were showing in your video.
It was the 500PF. I used the 24-70 2.8 for the cats. (F mount)
really informative, thank you
I am actually annoyed that Nikon got such a pass on how bad the AF was. I think the general public is just starting to realize how bad it was.
Sony and to a lesser extent, fuji, got nailed to a cross for how bad their AF tracking was. Me included. My A7ii couldn’t track my kids running toward me. I almost switched to a Z6 recently because I feel everyone has been sugar coating just how bad it was.
I’ll be sticking with my DSLRs a little longer.
I can always count on Steve Perry to shoot straight on the ACTUAL performance of gear! Thanks Steve!
Great video. Thanks.
Great review
Been using the Z6 for birds and wildlife the only setting that I had great success with is dynamic AF don’t use any other feature for birds
What camera and tele lens combination would you recommend for under $3500? From the perspective of a wildlife photographer I mean. I like Nikon but I'm open to Sony as well.
Probably a D7500 or D500 and 200-500. Lot of bang for the buck there.
@@backcountrygallery Thanks! And a full frame for under $5000?
@@klausschneewalski4321 I'd say the D850 + 200-500.
I'm a little late to this video but do you think there will be more firmware updates that would address these issues. I am trying to decide which camera to get the Z7 or the D850 - landscape and animal photography?
No way to know. I think part of it is processing power though - and that can't really be addressed with firmware. The trick though is how much of each type of photography do you do? For landscapes, I love the Z7 and I will never go back to a DSLR. However, for action, the Z cameras fall a bit short. So, if you're doing landscapes and mostly static wildlife, the Z might be a good choice. If it's mostly animals - some with action, and just a landscape here and there, the D850 is the better option.
@@backcountrygallery Thanks for replying - it's mainly dolphins and sunsets, some wading birds along with flat lay & portraits. I have old Nikon glass, so I would need the adapter on the Z7 not sure if that will cause big issues as it's mainly manual focus?
The weight of the D850 after a recent broken wrist is concerning but I am 60/40 towards the DSLR.
I used the U1, U2, and U3 so I can switch between modes easily.
So in general for standard AF (no tracking mode) --- is 3.0 noticeably better than 2.x ? or is AF just better than using tracking in general ?
I think both. It's terribly hard to really evaluate AF - too many variables. It seems to me that normal AF has improved, but without using one camera with 2.0 and one with 3.0 it's hard to say 100% for sure (and even then there are likely too many variables). As for tracking, it really depends - it has its uses.
Hmm...I still keep some of my lenses from my Nikon times in hope of seeing something really good in mirrorless from Nikon. Primarily for Wildlife. So far the Nikon Z6 and Z7 are...really so so. Especially when it comes to small birds and BIF's. For me it is not really useable, especially when you face difficult low light situations. It is that simple: where my Sony gets the shot the Nikon Z6 will miss it. So lets wait and see what Nikon eventually brings out this year as the Z8 (if this camera is really coming).
That's the thing - it's not so much that the Z series can't get the shot - I already have quite a few I really like from my trip - it's that Sony gets the shot more often. I too am looking forward to the Z8 - can't wait to see what it brings to the table.
Did you use a lens built for mirrorless or an older F mount lens? Does it make a difference?
Mostly a 500PF. Keep in mind I'm testing it with wildlife and Nikon doesn't have anything longer than 85mm available for full- frame mirrorless yet (the 70-200 still isn't here). While I think a native lens might focus faster, not sure if it would have helped with the other issues.
@@backcountrygallery I was curious if it would make a difference. I am no engineer.
@@buffmaloney Once longer native lenses come out it will be interesting to see. However, I think the deficiency is more in processing power than anything with the lens.
@@backcountrygallery One thing I have learned is that the S glass is better than the F glass. The 85 1.8 and 50 1.8 beat the F 85 and 50 1.4, and even beat the Sigma Art in total image quality. Sharper, less flare, less CA. So maybe it will make a difference. Keep us informed. Have a great day.
My z6 and 200 500 nikon lens dont lock on fest birds i try too do but i need good seeting
💯
Sony a9 with sigma 500mm f4 ore Nikon z6 ii with a 600mm f4e fl ed
Well done. No tests on one-eyed cats here.