Top Five R 22 Myths in 2021 Busted!
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- There are a lot of different mis information ideas floating around about R-22 in 2021. In this video, I debunk the top 5 myths around R-22 in 2021 and set the record straight!
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No joke. Had 4 different service companies tell me they would not replace my broken fan in the outside unit because my system is R22; therefore, it was nearing the end of its life and no R22 components were repairable because they're no longer available. They all wanted to sell me a newer system to the tune of 12k.
Finally found a small HVAC owner/employee company that said I was fed a bunch of nonsense; replaced my fan and said the system was in good shape and has life left in it.
Same here, I had to give up my longtime provider after they refused to replace a fan. It was at that point I overcome my fear of the big wires (I had wired wall switches, but nothing involving 220) and replaced the condenser fan, a $141 fix instead of $12,000.
More recently my 19 year old Grandaire (Copeland) compresser failed. Fortunately I had come across a provider (actually did computer consulting in their office, and saw their business up close), and called them out. Total cost, parts and labor, $2000 for new compressor.
Thanks Eric! I appreciated your valuable knowledge and integrity. Yesterday I called for freon refill on my Trane XR13 unit and the tech showed up diagnosed it for needing R22 refill but told me they can’t service its illegal. I had to pay $140 for 5 minute diagnosis when they could have told me over the phone. Sadly dishonesty and disinformation has become the norm.
Fortunately I deal with a great residential HVAC company. I have 2 18 year old Trane systems in my house. In all that time they have worked perfectly. Until this week, the first floor system started to malfunction. Diagnostics revealed that the R22 had leaked from the system. The service tech explained the situation exactly exactly as you did (the factual, true explanation). He then recharged the system with R22, and, yes it is expensive and we're back up and running. That said, we discussed the fact that we can't chase leaks forever but my view is with 18 years of exemplary performance the current system owes me nothing
Thanks so much! We’ve been “fibbed” to about the R22 issue by our HVAC supplier.. we are checking in our area of Litchfield Ct for someone who will recharge our system.
I heard the same thing but had a long talk with the customer because a another company said they they can not fix there ac unit it was illegal a small leak in the condenser but after talking to that customer I said you can still fix it but the replacement of the r22 that the customer would pay a little bit more for the r 22 and left at that and let the customer make his mind on what they wanted to do.
Actually the law for residential leaks is , " if 25% leaks out annually " recharge with out repair is illegal subsequent to first recharge. So make your recomdations on your invoice and have them initial it.
The key is you need to know what the exact amount that leaks in one year is and what the total system charge is. You will never actually know that on a split system that you have never worked on before.
Very Helpful information. Thank You Eric!
Glad it was helpful!
What about the cost of R22 repairs. R22 cost?
Is there a Freon that will mix with R-22 and is as reliable? I’ve heard of some, but don’t want to test it out on my older 4 ton R-22 split system with a 1#/year leak I can’t find with my gas sniffer. I just bought 5lbs of new R22 for $286 Yes expensive but a great deal less than a new system
no. refrigerants should never be mixed. it also against epa rules.
I have learned much from research. R22 is stupidly expensive. If your keeping your R22 system and need to add refrigerant but don't want to keep paying ridiculous prices, get it converted to R-407C. R-410A is already obsolete. Don't waste your money. As soon as the laws are changed, R-410 will be phased out. Probably R-470 systems will be next. That should read R-454b, my mistake.
Lastly I believe you are incorrect about R-407C not working better than R-22. It is +5% so you will gain cooling, but only if replace the oil with polyester oil. I'm no mentor on HVAC , but this is what I have learned in the last 30 days.
I am the owner of a 24yo R-22 system that needs maintenance.
Simple right? They just stopped making it. Here in my area they love to put replacement on top of r22.
So what refrigerant are they using to replace it, Meaning what refrigerant are they adding to the R 22 existing system ??? Ty
I need this answer as well
i saw a Canadian RUclipsr somehow rig up a BBQ tank of propane to replace his R22 that had all leaked out, without fixing the leak! That seems like a really bad idea!
Where's all this r22 that's stock piled? Is it for sale to home owners leaking 4 lbs a year?
I still have jugs of R-12.
The Montreal protocol was using incorrect scientific data. The ozone has a hole naturally . nuclear testing caused holes in the ozone. Not hydro floral carbons that are 4x heavier that oxygen.
This comment represents a very common misconception. Beginning in the 1980s. the only folks who were pushing back on this idea were the chemical companies who made CFCs. Even their response was not a total denial but more of an argument that CFCs were so useful and there was to ready alternative that banning them would cause harm to society. Note: They never contradicted the fact that CFCs will destroy Ozone. Nor did they contradict that CFCs can reach the stratosphere. That's pretty basic chemistry. They were basically saying that the harm probably wasn't as bad as the researchers thought. That notion was dispelled.
In refrigerants, the chlorine component is the part that damages ozone. This is the first C in CFC and the first C in HCFC. HFC (Hydro-fluorocarbons) refrigerants have no chlorine and therefore have an ozone depletion potential of zero.
A lot of people learn that these refrigerants are about 4X heavier than air and incorrectly conclude that there is no way they could possibly rise to the stratosphere where the ozone layer is. This logic would ultimately lead to heavier gasses concentrating near the ground.
If that were true, we would have a concentration of refrigerants and other pollutants that are heavier than air concentrating near the ground and our planet's surface would be completely uninhabitable (at least in low lying areas) as these heavier than air gasses displaced the air we need to breathe.
The fact is, there are lots of gasses and vapors that are heavier than air. They are still gasses, though. One of the properties of gasses and of air is that they mix together very well. Once mixed, the "heavier" gasses simply become another component of air and literally go wherever the wind blows. It is not an oil and water situation. Think of it more like adding blue food coloring to water. Once that blue color hits the water, you now have blue water forever.
Propane is heavier than air and so is gasoline vapor. One of the things about propane and gasoline is that they are volatile compounds. They don't stay together very long and start to break down quickly. Refrigerants, on the other hand, are very stable molecules. They were designed that way on purpose. You don't want your refrigerant separating or breaking down inside your refrigeration machine!
Because they are so sturdy, they are able to hold together much longer once they become part of the atmosphere. (on the order of decades!) Those refrigerant molecules that do reach the stratosphere are ultimately broken apart by UV radiation or by Ozone itself. This frees the chlorine atom.
Chlorine is found on and in the Earth almost always combined with something else to create a compound molecule. Sodium Chloride (table salt) is the most common of these chlorine compounds. This is the reason why chlorine is not naturally found in the upper atmosphere. Pure chlorine gas released on the surface (think of chemical warfare here) will quickly find other elements to combine with and remain trapped in compounds.
When chlorine is delivered to the stratosphere by a floating refrigerant molecule and freed, it's proclivity to combine with other things combined with the very unstable nature of ozone causes chlorine to break apart ozone (O3) into O2 and a single lone oxygen atom. The single lone oxygen atom will try to attach to the chlorine atom, but the bond is weak and doesn't last. The chlorine atom then goes on to break up another O3 molecule and repeats over and over again.
Chlorine is certainly not the only element or compound that breaks up Ozone. In fact, Ozone is such an unstable molecule that it readily looks to combine with whatever else is near it. This is what makes Ozone a great disinfectant. However, when Ozone combines with other compounds or elements, those compounds and elements are forever changed and are no longer a threat. Chlorine, on the other hand, can essentially behave like a fox in the hen house destroying all the ozone it comes into contact with.
If you still don't believe that a compound that is heavier than air can make it to the stratosphere, consider this: Volcanic ash, wildfire smoke, atmospheric dust, and even the product of nuclear explosions are all significantly heavier than air and also refrigerants. These compounds also make it to the stratosphere and this is a very well known fact. Not at all subject to debate. These compounds also damage ozone, but when they do, they are also destroyed in the process making the damage to ozone limited and repairable.
Is this information still relevant now in 2023?
In general, yes. The viability of repairing R-22 units is somewhat less due to the higher cost and advanced age of those units making that a less attractive option. It is still entirely possible. When you have a commercial unit that needs over 100 pounds of R-22 and it needs it now, it may be a good option to do that considering a replacement unit can cost $300K and take 9 months to ship. Also, in that case, retrofit to 407C or MO99 can also be a viable option
Mexico (and I am sure China) still produces r22.
I called and asked a 1 man show ac tech “company “ if he could help me find the part number of the evap coil in my r22 unit and he gave me the song and dance about it no longer being available and all this good old bs. I want the part number. I could care less how available it is or isn’t.i said It’s a part.. it has a number. Whats the number buddy? “He hung up” lol
Food for thought: We have a lot of information available to us, but since R-22 systems are at least twenty or more years old, it is a challenge to find specific part numbers for evap coils. Many times we have the service manual for a specific unit, and many times the same or a variant of the same part is used across product lines. but it can be hairy to actually land on an available number that hasn't been E.O.L.'d. A creative guy can fabricate mountings for a close fitting replacement but would probably never put any warranty, other than doing it right with what he had available.
@@6sensory the last r22 units were made just before 2010, excluding dry ship unit.
Translation: You called a busy guy and tried to get him to perform a "large" part of the troubleshooting/repair process I.E. look up an OEM part number for you for free? Something you could do yourself, especially since you are sitting on the actual unit and have more information than he does, to begin with.
People lie so much
Bottom line is it has been banned enough said. Your going quite a bit wild with what you claim techs are saying. Oohhhhh there becomeing less common you dont say, so what does that tell you. Of corse you can use replacements that your subcool supper heat are mostly accurate. So how much money will a customer dump into an old outdated system and still have an old system at the end of the day. I think your claims are outrageous.
THOUSANDS less. That's how much the customer will save at the end of the day. JEEEZ!
You're one of those goofs that just goes around condeming shit aren't you? You don't give a shit about the customer, you care about making a quick buck by any means necessary.
spell check