This is such an impressive video. As a new hobbyist I can't thank you enough for providing these resources. The fact that you caught a coding error on an instrument is the best part. You are improving the entire industry by doing that. Sloppy engineering on the part of the manufacturer- but a difficult error to catch as the instrument would not typically be tested in this way by the user.
Hi guys. We are aware of the results Ryan shows for our MQ-510 meter in this video. We are aggressively researching this issue and pending our results will be publishing a formal product notification on our website with any additional data, appropriate instructions, correction factors, recalibration instructions and/or warranty procedures within a few days.
Hi, readallen. We don't have any solid answers yet, but if the SQ-520 is affected, the fix could, most likely, be rolled out through a simple software update. We are rigorously and methodically researching this from many angles to see why he got those results and if we do, in fact, have a widespread problem. Rest assured, customers are our top priority and we are actively working to get to the bottom of this. Please check our website for our findings within a few days.
Thank you so much for these videos. I love seeing detailed tests such as this; as well as hearing about vendor response. I've been geeking out on BRS videos for the past 9 months as I get my tanks setup and tweak it. I can't absorb the great info fast enough.
Im so impressed. Despite the insane issues you guys ran into, it looks like you handled this whole issue so well! Well done Team @BRS - really enjoy your videos and effort you put into all of this!
Great video!! Love watching these as they are the most research based vidoes I have found. Good job on finding the issues, but I will say it's nice to see companies that actually take responsibility for their products!!
Awesome video! great job on finding the software glitch in the Li-Cor, and the Apogee. Those companies owe you guys big time! Keep up the good work guys!
Fantastic video BRS. Finding errors with not one, but two of the higher end sensors just goes to show how thorough and logical your approach to all this testing actually is. Also props to the seneye, I personally had written it off as a gimmick as at that price point it didn't seem like it could be accurate. It's certainly on my buy list for my next order.
Great video! Always been a fan of the Seneye for the price. The trick at outer edges is to turn the meter angle slowly until you see the highest reading. Then capture the set point on the data log. I have been able to read a 96x48x32" 560g tank with ease. Simply telling hobbyist to keep it flat is not the best idea IMO. Finding the best angle is simple. The focus on PUR is leagues ahead of a standard PAR meter. PUR grows corals. Someone can make an LED light with all green and yellow diodes, resulting in killer PAR, yet grow nothing. Comparing PAR is actually pretty silly unless the same light from tank to tank. Comparing PAR between different lights does not tell the whole story. It is, however a useful tool to compare locations with in the same tank. Again great video! Keep up the good work. One of my favorite vendors!
Seems the seneye is now cosine corrected. I have both versions and they seem to show a difference of 200 par. Would love to see another video where you test the new version.
Great video. You guys have the best equipment reviews in the aquarium hobby on RUclips, bar none. PAR meters are way out of my budget, though. I wish companies were better about publishing PAR data for their lights.
Great video!!! Firstly I am so jealous of your job!! Ha ha You really are a great source of information and insight and a credit to the hobby! Secondly I wish there were a service like yours in the uk!! I look at the BRS products with envy every time!!!! You are another level!!
Hi Ryan, there is an issue with the current Seneye's, showing par numbers twice as high. Many people on forums noticed this, and Parkersreef made a video about it. Could you look into the matter?
It always amazes me how so much is put into par readings although up to a few years ago we never checked par. And now to find out they're all off by a bit. Oh boy. How are these readers being updated?
Hey BRS Guys, have you ever shot a video about your studio setup & Equipment, that would be interesting to see. I am thinking about starting a video series of my own (non-fish related) and would love to know what equipment you use for your audio, video, lighting and editing because you put out great productions!
On the seneye, when i look at the product info it seems like it only updates PAR data every 10 minutes- is that correct? or can it be used for real-time (like updates every second) PAR data? 10 minutes between readings seems like it'd make it prohibitively annoying to use...
To bad seneye is so difficult to work. I have yet to get a reading or figure it out and really no instructions oh using! I have a dashboard page the shows up but the page for the meter dosnt!
Can the Seneye be used with an android phone that supports USB OTG (allows full size usb interface) instead of a PC? Can a tablet be used if it isn't windows based? I don't think I can handle having to use window - definitely not having to buy a new windows device. Thanks.
nice! :) fyi apogee is unable to correct the issue with a software patch, you may want to let the sq owners know as well. thanks to apogee for standing behind their product. my questions were courteously received, and my affected sq unit was promptly dealt with.
Id like to see a BRS investigates on Salinity instruments. I am sure BRS will have this in a later video.... Good discover on the PAR meters... I don't fault any of the vendors as the lighting spectrums have changed over the years and nothing in this hobby is 100% accurate... Its good they are receptive and fixing issues.
So... With the 1.32x correction factor figured in to the LI-COR meter's readings, it seems like the "inaccuracies" in the other meters end up being almost right on par (pun intended). Or am I misunderstanding, here?
I have a question about UV in lights. Why are UV lights on Aquarium LEDs like the Hydra and Radion models? Does this subtly remove the need for a UV filter? If UV are now being fitted to lights, is it ok to have the tank in sunlight?
ok im pretty sure that it is an apogee product with bio tek software but plugs into a pc like the seneye and is made for underwater aquarium use. i wonder how that would preform against the rest next time? thanks again
Very good. But sensors should always be pointing directly at a light source, especially that Seneye one. You know when it's pointing directly as the reading will be highest.
I have the original mq-200 NON underwater version does this mean I need to multiply my reading by 1.188 correction factor (10 % spectral & 8 % immersion factor, 1.08 * 1.10 = 1.188) when using my par meter on electric mode?
I spoke with apogee and they did tell me there is about a 10% spectral error for the blue led light that is being under reported by the original mq-200. Idk if would make my readings more accurate by applying this correction factor due to the fact that it's balancing itself out by the over reporting of the other light (red) and also already reporting higher par with just the immersion factor in the results you guys obtained
For this test, we used T5 bulbs. That said, it would be interesting to run this test again with LED's as par meters do perform differently under LEDs vs T5's.
BRS Investigates, could compile a database of par/pur levels for popular light rigs. Makes more sense than us all buying $500+ meters. Here is one for the 165w leds: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16_2uFw9unrbYN8OWpmcSb2XlT9vMtnhR_e3lnUhgRLQ/edit#gid=0
BRS: Hey, well we just exposed that the industry standard PAR meter's software doesn't work. No biggie. Every Research Scientist that used the meter: well honey my four years of research on coral photosynthesis is garbage, how was your day? Hats off to BRS. Honestly from here on out, if BRS doesn't recommend it, I won't buy it.
Someone having something like Li-Cor par meter should just calibrate light sources from people giving them data instead of buying par meters per person. Service that i'm looking for.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
This is such an impressive video. As a new hobbyist I can't thank you enough for providing these resources. The fact that you caught a coding error on an instrument is the best part. You are improving the entire industry by doing that. Sloppy engineering on the part of the manufacturer- but a difficult error to catch as the instrument would not typically be tested in this way by the user.
stuff like this puts you leagues above the competition! keep up the great work!!!!
Hi guys. We are aware of the results Ryan shows for our MQ-510 meter in this video. We are aggressively researching this issue and pending our results will be publishing a formal product notification on our website with any additional data, appropriate instructions, correction factors, recalibration instructions and/or warranty procedures within a few days.
Apogee Instruments Inc. that's awesome to see you post on here!
Apogee Instruments Inc. this will impact the sq-520 as well?
Hi, readallen. We don't have any solid answers yet, but if the SQ-520 is affected, the fix could, most likely, be rolled out through a simple software update. We are rigorously and methodically researching this from many angles to see why he got those results and if we do, in fact, have a widespread problem. Rest assured, customers are our top priority and we are actively working to get to the bottom of this. Please check our website for our findings within a few days.
Apogee Instruments Inc. glad you guys are so responsive.
ok thanks apogee, we count on your instruments and technology to not protect our organisms but to keep them thriving and reproducing.
Thank you so much for these videos. I love seeing detailed tests such as this; as well as hearing about vendor response. I've been geeking out on BRS videos for the past 9 months as I get my tanks setup and tweak it. I can't absorb the great info fast enough.
Im so impressed. Despite the insane issues you guys ran into, it looks like you handled this whole issue so well! Well done Team @BRS - really enjoy your videos and effort you put into all of this!
Awesome video. Makes me super excited to use the Seneye Reef to map my tank lighting this weekend!
Great video!! Love watching these as they are the most research based vidoes I have found. Good job on finding the issues, but I will say it's nice to see companies that actually take responsibility for their products!!
Awesome video! great job on finding the software glitch in the Li-Cor, and the Apogee. Those companies owe you guys big time! Keep up the good work guys!
I feel more powerful with all this knowledge! Thank you guys again for taking the time to bring new info to the hobby!
Fantastic video BRS. Finding errors with not one, but two of the higher end sensors just goes to show how thorough and logical your approach to all this testing actually is.
Also props to the seneye, I personally had written it off as a gimmick as at that price point it didn't seem like it could be accurate. It's certainly on my buy list for my next order.
Great video! Always been a fan of the Seneye for the price. The trick at outer edges is to turn the meter angle slowly until you see the highest reading. Then capture the set point on the data log. I have been able to read a 96x48x32" 560g tank with ease. Simply telling hobbyist to keep it flat is not the best idea IMO. Finding the best angle is simple. The focus on PUR is leagues ahead of a standard PAR meter. PUR grows corals. Someone can make an LED light with all green and yellow diodes, resulting in killer PAR, yet grow nothing. Comparing PAR is actually pretty silly unless the same light from tank to tank. Comparing PAR between different lights does not tell the whole story. It is, however a useful tool to compare locations with in the same tank. Again great video! Keep up the good work. One of my favorite vendors!
Seems the seneye is now cosine corrected. I have both versions and they seem to show a difference of 200 par. Would love to see another video where you test the new version.
Thank you for making comparaison, super interesting to watch, video like this change our hobby slowly.
Epic video guys. Inspiring level of detail. And just what I was looking for looking into these.
Congratulations on the find. It's exciting when you are able to work with a company to correct an error.
When serious "amateurs" impact a discipline. Well done! I'm not a reefer but learned a bucket of 411 here I can use.
Wow great work -i think BRS earned an honorary PhD in reef keeping here!
great job as always .this is why I subscribe to guy's. you never let us down.
BRS is the Wikileaks of the Reefing Community!
Such a great resource and investigation. Thanks a ton!!
Nice video! It was interesting to see those tools in direct comparison.
Awesome video as always.
GREAT information. Thank you as always. Did you do any testing of the spectrum reporting on the seneye and it's accuracy in that respect?
Great video. You guys have the best equipment reviews in the aquarium hobby on RUclips, bar none. PAR meters are way out of my budget, though. I wish companies were better about publishing PAR data for their lights.
BRS Saves the whole industry. Badass, Good job guys.
Thank you for testing 6500k bulbs as well! Very helpful for those of us with both a reef tank and planted tank!
Awesome work guys.
Are you all doing another setting up a tank?
I'm curious if the light manufacturers have been using the Li-core for their stated PAR spec's. Good catch for both Li-core and Apogee!
Great video!!! Firstly I am so jealous of your job!! Ha ha You really are a great source of information and insight and a credit to the hobby! Secondly I wish there were a service like yours in the uk!! I look at the BRS products with envy every time!!!! You are another level!!
I really would have liked if you guys would have tested the Neptune PMK as they are pretty popular as well.
Hi Ryan, there is an issue with the current Seneye's, showing par numbers twice as high. Many people on forums noticed this, and Parkersreef made a video about it. Could you look into the matter?
Hey BRS, will a 20' air hose flow just as fast of air as a 2' air hose to the skimmer? Will diameter of the hose have any differences as well?
where might I find more information on the research ecotech have done with the daily lighting intervals?
Love it, just bought a new Apex Par meter and I love it.
It always amazes me how so much is put into par readings although up to a few years ago we never checked par. And now to find out they're all off by a bit. Oh boy. How are these readers being updated?
When is the investigates video on how to properly "cook" live rock coming out? I'm ready to do it just waiting to see your results! :)
Good work, as usual.
Hey BRS Guys, have you ever shot a video about your studio setup & Equipment, that would be interesting to see. I am thinking about starting a video series of my own (non-fish related) and would love to know what equipment you use for your audio, video, lighting and editing because you put out great productions!
Thanks guys, that would be awesome!
On the seneye, when i look at the product info it seems like it only updates PAR data every 10 minutes- is that correct? or can it be used for real-time (like updates every second) PAR data? 10 minutes between readings seems like it'd make it prohibitively annoying to use...
awesome vid!!!!
To bad seneye is so difficult to work. I have yet to get a reading or figure it out and really no instructions oh using! I have a dashboard page the shows up but the page for the meter dosnt!
Do you need a slide in the seneye to be able to use the par feature?
Nah you don't
Can the Seneye be used with an android phone that supports USB OTG (allows full size usb interface) instead of a PC? Can a tablet be used if it isn't windows based? I don't think I can handle having to use window - definitely not having to buy a new windows device.
Thanks.
congrats brs - you exceed all expectations!
will you be contacting all affected apogee customers with this discovery?
nice! :) fyi apogee is unable to correct the issue with a software patch, you may want to let the sq owners know as well.
thanks to apogee for standing behind their product. my questions were courteously received, and my affected sq unit was promptly dealt with.
off topic question , 1. Does surface agitation really increase the DO ?
2. Does cooler temperature really increase DO ?
Nice job Ryan! Very informative ... my favorite is the Apogee 210. Just saying.
That would be awesome!
Id like to see a BRS investigates on Salinity instruments. I am sure BRS will have this in a later video.... Good discover on the PAR meters... I don't fault any of the vendors as the lighting spectrums have changed over the years and nothing in this hobby is 100% accurate... Its good they are receptive and fixing issues.
So... With the 1.32x correction factor figured in to the LI-COR meter's readings, it seems like the "inaccuracies" in the other meters end up being almost right on par (pun intended). Or am I misunderstanding, here?
I have a question about UV in lights.
Why are UV lights on Aquarium LEDs like the Hydra and Radion models? Does this subtly remove the need for a UV filter? If UV are now being fitted to lights, is it ok to have the tank in sunlight?
would the bio tek btm3000 par sensor be equivalent and have the same flaw as the mq210?
ok im pretty sure that it is an apogee product with bio tek software but plugs into a pc like the seneye and is made for underwater aquarium use. i wonder how that would preform against the rest next time? thanks again
what about using neptune apex pmk ?
Very good. But sensors should always be pointing directly at a light source, especially that Seneye one. You know when it's pointing directly as the reading will be highest.
I have the original mq-200 NON underwater version does this mean I need to multiply my reading by 1.188 correction factor (10 % spectral & 8 % immersion factor, 1.08 * 1.10 = 1.188) when using my par meter on electric mode?
I spoke with apogee and they did tell me there is about a 10% spectral error for the blue led light that is being under reported by the original mq-200. Idk if would make my readings more accurate by applying this correction factor due to the fact that it's balancing itself out by the over reporting of the other light (red) and also already reporting higher par with just the immersion factor in the results you guys obtained
Way to go on catching that bug!
what about the sq-520 i bought from brs?
What about the biotek par meter? Is it good?
Does anyone know how accurate the apex par monitor is ?
They use an Apogee sensor, so we would expect it to be on par (no pun intended) with their MQ210 or MQ510 models.
how bout the apex par meter ?
Did you guys do this on LEDS?
For this test, we used T5 bulbs. That said, it would be interesting to run this test again with LED's as par meters do perform differently under LEDs vs T5's.
Can i freshwater dip coral ???
I can't bring myself to spend a couple hundred to see if my light is at a good brightness.. time for winging it!
Moral of the story.... your light meter should be suspect even if it wasn't mentioned in this video. LOL
BRS Investigates, could compile a database of par/pur levels for popular light rigs. Makes more sense than us all buying $500+ meters.
Here is one for the 165w leds: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16_2uFw9unrbYN8OWpmcSb2XlT9vMtnhR_e3lnUhgRLQ/edit#gid=0
BRS: Hey, well we just exposed that the industry standard PAR meter's software doesn't work. No biggie. Every Research Scientist that used the meter: well honey my four years of research on coral photosynthesis is garbage, how was your day? Hats off to BRS. Honestly from here on out, if BRS doesn't recommend it, I won't buy it.
why not test apex?
You the man for helping those guys at crapicor un f word their s word.
White vs Blue; Which grows coral better?
BulkReefSupplyCom please please please please please 😁
And this is why I love you! lol
Someone having something like Li-Cor par meter should just calibrate light sources from people giving them data instead of buying par meters per person. Service that i'm looking for.
$500 sensors to test $400 lights..
to care for thousands in corals ;)
to shay.
Would be easier if there was a database.
LOL reefers. you say it like 8 times.
you can build this for 30 bucks man