It's even simpler: Jungle has more syncopated and breakier beats and funkier baselines with sometimes lighter melodies, while drum and bass has more straight ahead beats and straighter basslines. Apart from that you'll find the same dark vibes, ragga vocals. I've always loved jungle over straight ahead D&B, way more interesting.
I 'm a dnb lover , this music is in my veins and soul. however im having harder time in loving Jungle. thanks to your comment as it confirms that THERE IS IN FACT A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN those two. As almost everyone in almost every forum or website kept claiming that Jungle and DnB are the same thing. When i agree that according to the history the one was inspired by the other , but the rythm and its quite different , and they sound different so why don't we just accept that they are NOT the same.
We asked this question in the early 90's when the music was in its infancy. Both the terms 'Jungle' and 'Drum and Bass' were in use simultaneously to describe the same music. The term drum and bass was used previously in the 70's to describe Dub versions of reggae songs. It also describes Jungle in the sense that the melody is often in the base track, while the drums provide the rhythm over the top (as with dub reggae which heavily influenced it). Approaching the mid 90's artists like Goldie pioneered a purer , more technical form of this music with tracks like 'Angel' that we recognised as different/ transitional and at the same time the old name Jungle gave way to the term Drum and Bass. We didn't know how lucky we were.
1991 - 93 the Hardcore rave era, the only reference to drum n bass was on some mixes because of their Reggae dub samples, such as MI 7 'Rockin Down The House (Drum & Bass Mix). The name Jungle started to catch on mainly thru Top Buzz & Ibiza, where thru its transition 92/93 it was often referred to as Hardcore Jungle Techno. Then by 94 when Ragga samples started to become more prolific & the Techno sounds stripped out in a particular style of Jungle that became popular, was it abbreviated to Jungle. That is the name that came to define the music overall between 93 - 96. I never heard anyone refer to Jungle as Drum & Bass during those years, if some did then it didn't catch on until it was rebranded as part of a move to make it more popular, as 2step beats started to dominate as Jump Up emerged on one side & Techstep on the other.
@@BionicRasta I would agree with pretty much everything you say there. I was part of all of it until 1995 when I left the country. When you wrote 'Hardcore Jungle Techno' I immediately thought of 'DJ Taktix - The Way' which uses the term as its sample. I would regard this as a Jungle record but it is from 1993. Honestly I would even say that some Ragga Twins from 91-92 like Shine Eye or Hooligan 69 is proto-Jungle. It's really difficult to date this genre to a specific moment as it is an evolution. I have to challenge you on something. If nobody was calling this music 'Drum and Bass' until 1996, then why were there 5 'Drum and Bass Selection' albums released between 94-95? Just doesn't make sense if everyone knew it only as Jungle......
Jungle music wasn’t the problem, it was wannabe gangsta youts taking too much coke & champagne they couldn’t handle, that tainted jungle gigs! Originally, jungle raves and venues were top notch & the vibes were intoxicating & amazing. Unfortunately, it was the gangsta wannabe’s that gave Jungle music a bad rep! I was part of the birth of Acid, House & Garage & Jungle music genre era (late 1980’s - 1990’s). I raved RELIGIOUSLY, from Friday to Sunday most weekends back then, It was brilliant! It’s so sad really, because it was a beautiful time in british music history for my age group. It’s always a few that ruin it for the rest.
Same kinda happened in Cali lotta young people organized making a movement and gangs definitely not wannabe some killers but yk that's what fuked it up not that there isn't stuff happening just there's still ah stigma from some older folks because how it got back then
Honestly I think you've described it how it was. I've heard albums which were called Drum & Bass selection and the same tunes are called Jungle in other albums. DnB and Jungle are the same to me. What I don't like now days there's raves called DnB Vs Jungle and that splits the scene now. Because people love this new style Jump up sound, with weird bass lines they listen to old skool DnB/Jungle and think it's a totally different style all together.
Jungle was always very heavily raga & dancehall influenced; DnB is a cleaner Electronic beat. Saying that, artists such as Nucleya, are making sound that blur the line between the two again. Whilst his music is more DnB, there is a reggae influence to some of his tunes, along with the South Indian beats.
Drum n’ Bass is literally defined by Kick Snare Breath Kick Snare Kick Snare Breath Kick Snare Kick Snare ad nausea. Jungle is literally defined by the same reoccurring drum breaks (winstons, jb’s, Lynn Collins) getting chopped to bits and reassembled in infinite ways. They’re not remotely the same music.
@@robertrada4783 a lot of drum and bass uses chopped breaks. at least, all the drum and bass i like. i dont even know why that kind of drum and bass is in the same genre tbh.
@@robertrada4783 thats not strictly true, early D n B, used breaks, it was called drum and bass because it came from hardcore, which had lots of other shit in it, but certain artist started to strip out the shit and keep it to the bare minimum of what we wanted to hear... BASS AND DRUMS! none of that happy piano shit, it was proto jungle, jungle and drum and bass were the same thing originally. Only over time did the terms become to mean slighty difference styles, where one like you say is a stripped down beat, while the other concentrated on crazy break manipulation.
the terms came from us trying to describe the rave music, "jungle" was hardcore with a tribal, jungle feel to it, especially when dub and ragga started to be mixed into it. DnB was hardcore/jungle stripped to the bare minimum. it was all influencing each other and the terms where born by the people buying the records, and the people selling the records, DJs, fans, etc
Halfway through the interview someone ran into the studio and stole his tee-shirt and ripped it in half as a joke. You can see he's only wearing a hoodie.
Bs !!!! Loads of the same people who dj or produce jungle ended up in d n b ! I was there ! You know like Fabio ‘ groovrider ‘ leamon d ‘ dillinja ‘ Bailey ‘Randal ‘ jumping Jack Frost ‘ Bryan g !!!! Definitely a cap !!!!!
That is an accurate story but he doesn’t really explain the difference. Jungle uses many layers of breaks and pivotal around the amen break. It also use’s naturally sounding low lazy bass lines that sound detached from the break. Drum and bass has stripped back simplified breakbeat with electronic synthesised bass lines. Then there’s sub-genres.
I think his point is: the split came due producers trying to avoid negative associations with an increasingly problematic drug culture around Jungle. Then the music continued to evolve, but now with the drum and bass label. The two terms have been used interchangeably before this (also see comments here from people from that time) and continue to be used interchangeably today. For every clear example of one thing or the other, there is also a murky example, where the lines are blurred even the die hard fans could argue forever. While we can point to valid differences (many good suggestions in the comments) but it is too easy to come across an example where each argument quickly falls apart. I know it sometimes feels like they’re separate genres, but over the years I had to admit to myself that that is only a matter of perception, and mostly even an illusion. Trying to separate them is only done retroactively with hindsight, but there was no strict intention to make something separate from Jungle from the beginning. I still think it is a complex matter with a lot of gray zone, but all in all, if I had to summarise it and to put it simple: Jungle is dnb, and dnb is Jungle.
BS, they're both the same. It's just an alternative name, nothing else. As my man @notimput says correctly, the sound evolved with a DnB label. Hip Hop for instance now is WAY different than it was in the 80's. It has evolved into a completely different sound (not for the better btw 😕), but the essence is still Hip Hop.
The thing that is really missing out there is a solid explanation of how these genres evolved, providing actual examples of tracks released and therefore the date they occured. For example, is there an earlier example of the term "drum and bass" being used than the version of Charly on the September 1992 album 'Experience' by The Prodigy? Obviously for it to be called "Trip into Drum and Bass version" the phrase must have been in general use, and I doubt Liam himself invented the genre - more likely he heard another track (or multiple tracks) and made a version of Charly in that style.
Yes, we used to call the genre Hardcore, this was the popular term around 1991 when we was in School in London but even hardcore had fragmented styles to it, for example Hardcore-Jungle was identified as having elements of reggae/Dancehall samples in it, Happy-Hardcore had elements of pianos and pitched up vocals (due to the non existence of pitch shifting/timestretching technology of Akai/Emu samplers at the time, Happy Hardcore was more uplifting and melodic, there was also Darkside which was moody, making use of big scary/haunting synth stabs and movie samples. Eventually as more young black British kids adopted Hardcore, the use of Reggae/Dancehall and Rare Groove samples spawned what is now known as Jungle. Drum and Bass was pretty Much born out of producers distancing themselves from the exploding Jungle scene and taking the music back to the absence of Reggae/Dancehall samples. Now we've kind of come full cycle and the lines between Jungle and Drum and Bass have been some what blurred but in General, Drum and Bass was always focused on instrumentation (Drums and Bass) with less Reggae vocals. The Prodigy, Acen (Trip 2 the moon) & labels such as Moving Shadow and Suburban Base were well known Hardcore record labels, and they're still going strong in the Drum and Bass/Jungle Scene.
@@mrglasses8953 Hardcore was the moment that all races started to go raving together. Jungle and D+B was a product of that with loads of Caribbean influence obviously. What a time. I'm sad to see the scene is now 99% white (and the violent, segregated path grime has taken).
Dnb has its moments but your right I kinda assume if it's ah DnB club it's ah sausage fest bro energy to the max jungles not my go to but it's still one the most beautiful styles of music
From my perspective as a young boy in London it was the ‘troubles in the dance’ and the resultant image change necessitated a new name. Promoters needed the name more than those in the scene (everyone hates name changes until you get used to it) to get venues like the man says here. There is a retrospective sound difference but that’s probably more of an oversimplification based on the technology available over time.
This is a pretty accurate observation. Remember the term 'dark jungle'? When you have samples in records like 'six million ways to die, chose one' then you know violence will follow.
I think it's also worth mentioning the race element: jungle was seen as "black" music, while drum & bass came to be seen as "white" music. That was a big reason why the UK media tried to cancel jungle music, yet was later more accepting of drum & bass.
Nobody was pin pointing this music as a colour jungle was a movement and a culture it was very a underground restricted music associated with violence just like hip hop were drum n bass came after by which time wasn't as associated with violence ( not that jungle ever was a violent music ) which is why it became popular in the mainstream nothing to do with colour you don't see music I don't think Andy c ever saw it as anything else but music
Truth. Jungle raves were always described as “too black, too dark” as the split from the hardcore scene became more apparent, as previously we were all “hardcore, salt and pepper”. The white folk lost interest which fuelled the start of “happy hardcore” (any idea why it was called that?) I would regularly have to exit events due to a night being shut down as things were also getting a bit out of hand. Jungle had unfortunately gained a bad reputation in London anyway. If you don’t understand this you obviously weren’t there. Tek 9 even addressed this in “you got to slow down“ in ‘93. Such a shame but that’s the truth. Hardcore will never die Big up all Junglists Amen
@@infinitycult I share your opinion to the letter, however our opinions were not typical. As Martin Luther King said “I have a dream.” Hardcore will never die Big up all Junglists Amen
@@robwall5530 Yep. Looking back at the history of jungle/drum & bass with a 'racial lens' is something contemporary. No one thought of these terms as being more black or white at the time.
The reason Marcus mentions that DnB scene was born from Jungle. The way different scenes are born from other scenes (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse lol)
Jungle techno started in 1991 Then it developed into breakbeat hardcore Then around 94 95 ragga jungle stuff came around and kind of broke away from the rest To me jungle is 94 95 stuff and drum and bass was the term used by the magazines and media to describe what was left. Like intelligent drum and bass etc.
Jungle is basically earlier roots of drum and bass there's differences because jungle has ragga influences and slightly different to drum and bass however jungle is a subgenre of drum and bass........ More or less the same thing sort of.
i think DNB lost that ruffian/ thug phase a long time ago. When i got into it in 98 here in states in LA , jungle was huge, still is and dnb. But we had alot of the bad elements especially at the larger parties downtown. Shootings, rapes, drug deals gone bad inside parties(primarily b asian gangs/Hispanic ). The Orion venue in LA could be a damn right scary in the jungle area lol. But that seems to have gone away, the bad vibes of late 90s, early 00s in current parties. I still go to smaller dnb events a few times a year. Im 46, i cant do the massives anymore, just too much for me , money $$$ , and just plain old
i always wondered why it's not called jungle music as much these days. makes a lot of sense but still fawked up that it had to "change" it's actual name to be more uhh PR or PC? not sure but thank you for the history lesson on dnb music.
no not at all, Jungle in general has lots of reggae/ragga/dancehall influences by way of samples, fx, vocals etc but in the broad spectrum of DnB & Jungle many tracks use the full range of breakbeats/drum patterns available. Yes in Jungle you will hear a lean towards a particular range of drum patterns and breaks which make them 'characteristic' of Junngle of course but all types of drums/breaks are used in the whole scene.
@@richgreen5988 Kind of, but jungle in that narrow sense refers to the popular apache stuff of 1994. Listen to the jungle of late 1993 and it's more like what people define as drum & bass.
Curious to know where Darkside fits. I see people lump Darkside/core tunes in "old school jungle" playlists, but there doesn't seem to be much ragga vocals in it. Saying that, Darkside does sound like the predecessor to speed garage. Kind of. Not sure lol
The same thing happened with UK Garage music, the garage scene was for me was a way of life pirate radio music shops nightclubs the music in the UK garage scene was excellent It became too popular and fools let it become what the media wanted which was a boogyman...then the enervatable happens...
So many people just call all drum & bass jungle... Shy FX is jungle which has ragga influences and MCing, LTJ Bukem is atmospheric drum & bass with spacial soulful sounds... Why can't people distinguish the difference?! 🤔🤷♂️
I've noticed people lumping darkside tunes into jungle playlists, but I've always thought that tunes like valley of shadows doesn't sound so ragga influenced compared to tunes like prizna-fire. Maybe the playlist creators are getting mixed up lol
Hip hop/funk/soul/blues was US Reggae was Jamaica Calypso was Barbados Jungle was UK Drum and Bass was White kids not wanting to be identified as into Black Music . The the separation of the same thing began
You need to ask those that were there at the time. Whilst its true the Ragga influence of Jungle in '94 brought in bigger black crowds & along with that the gang violence that followed them, where previously it was largely seen as a white thing when Techno sounds was the main influence during the Hardcore rave era. However i don't believe it was a conscious effort by producers to remove the 'Ragga' black element in Jungle.. It was just a progression of the music as 2step Jump Up started to become more popular from 95/96 & that sampled heavily from Hip Hop & had gangster lyrics in it. Rather they changed the name from Jungle to DnB as part of a rebranding to make the music more commercial, remember 96 is when major labels like Virgin & Sony wanted to signed up some of the bigger names. So the motive was more about money than distancing the scene from a bad reputation caused by a minority of those who caused trouble. That is different to the darker Techstep style of DnB he is referencing, such as Virus & Bad Company, which became more popular with white students. But Jump Up came to dominate as Techstep became Neurofunk then disappeared whereas Jump Up carried thru as the popular style of DnB in the Y2Ks.
Jungle came first and then drum n bass came out of it later !!! Jungle would be Leviticus burial ! Or dj ss lighter etc !!! Drum n bass first era would be Goldie terminator etc ! I have been into it since 94 and went to raves and dj and night vinyl ! Never heard about this meeting ????And went to loads of raves in 98 that had jungle and d n d and still had raga mcs !!!!
I made Drum and Bass in 93, prior to that I made Hardcore. The people I made music with came from a Hip Hop background and that's where the breakbeat influence came in. Jungle came from the Reggae influence, there's an area in Kingston Jamaica called Jungle, the DJ's would always shout out their people. That's why you hear it on many tracks with samples from sound clashes. That's my humble opinion from being involved.
Anybody who thinks they know what d&b is should listen to this from 1993: ruclips.net/video/6RyNplWC-qs/видео.html. Then read Invisible Man's comments in 'The History of Drum & Bass' wikipedia.
We always used the name drum n bass I first heard the term in 92 Mc fearless on weekend rush. same with Jungle.i remember the name getting thrown about in the early days ,tunes like body snatch , way in my brain. By 93 though Jungle was running tings Leviticus , Warning , worries in the dance . Then by late 95 Drum n bass minus the old skool samples of dance hall reggae ska . Instead a lot of Gangstar krs1 samples were doing the rounds. Minimalistic tunes like pulp fiction Jungle name was being dropped and Drum n bass was on every flyer.
The smith and mighty track from 1992 called 'Killa' had a sample in it which said 'Back to the drum n bass' so the term was doing the rounds already back then.
I agree. both terms were always used. It’s the same genre, just a different points in time. The ‘movement’ evolved and changed quicker back then. A lot of people cherry pick the past and try to dissect all the differences into categories. Same genre, different styles. It’s always been about experimentation with sound alongside technology and going down different unexplored routes.
Noooooo jungle was council estate music in london no matter if your black or white if you grew up in the manor why is everyone saying black and white thats dumb my estate was black white asisn every race in the world
look into a guy called gerald. forever changing... moving on!breakbeat to d&b to jungle. too many silly terms for genres now. disco house techno with 50 variants of each. pretentious in my book. dig it or dont x
People get things mixed up. Dude a know he claims to be "and EDM head" claims that House music came from dubstep, and that LMFAO were the first to make house lmao
Im sorry but what is he talking about.. Im a producer of Jungle and Drum and Bass., i made some of the biggest Jungle and DnB tracks from 1994 to present date. I made Dred Bass { what the time dread) that was jungle as pure as it gets. no one said lets called it DnB to get more venues for gigs. jungle got its name from Mc mad P from Top Buzz. he started saying this is the sound of jungle techno. it progressed from there Drum and bass was a name that was also attached to the sound. Probably more so to the more intelligent style tracks such as logical progression etc.
The jungle raves were violent. As were the drum and bass raves up to the early 2000s. Stratford rex was a war zone. No one really cares though. Drum and bass is different to jungle. It started as break beat. It's faster. It came from jungle, but its different. And a world away from what it is now. Safer, but those who were there in the late 90s had the time of their lives. It was the fucking bollocks.
I saw a video with Photek talking about said meeting, saying he opposed the name drum & bass, and that was the start of him losing interest. Can't remember where it was or I'd link it. interesting though
@@ROBERTTONUS done my degree 87 till now. 50 soon been there through the lot . Groove ,lenny dee frost evil eddie, randle , kid batchelor, Franky bones , fabio , Mr c, Hype and all there pals. Joey belram and Carl Cox. Sorry forgot Andy , scotty , lou vega
Guess you should brush up on your history and look up Goldie and who this Drum n bass committee was and what the meetings meant for the future of the genre.. You wouldnt have drum n bass without goldie to put it simply
Ive listened to jungle drum n bass since 93. Some of the things said here were not true. Im from england. I know what im talking about. Promoters not getting venues due to them being jungle events?? Not true atall. There were plenty of venues and lots of raves. Lol
It’s not really just a name change. D&B stripped out a lot of the reggae influences. There are of course a lot of exceptions (Trust Me by Roni Size is a good exception.), but D&B became far more experimental and cutting edge compared to Jungle did. They aren’t the same thing but they share a lot of things.
It's even simpler: Jungle has more syncopated and breakier beats and funkier baselines with sometimes lighter melodies, while drum and bass has more straight ahead beats and straighter basslines. Apart from that you'll find the same dark vibes, ragga vocals. I've always loved jungle over straight ahead D&B, way more interesting.
One of them has me dancing, one of them has me clicking 'next track' every time. You already know which is which. :)
i like when the straight ahead dnb artists incorporate a little jungle break into their track
Jungle has more funk, groove, soul, reggae you name it and is more on the harder side. Its a more vibrant sound.
Jungle sounds more "black"
I 'm a dnb lover , this music is in my veins and soul. however im having harder time in loving Jungle. thanks to your comment as it confirms that THERE IS IN FACT A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN those two. As almost everyone in almost every forum or website kept claiming that Jungle and DnB are the same thing. When i agree that according to the history the one was inspired by the other , but the rythm and its quite different , and they sound different so why don't we just accept that they are NOT the same.
We asked this question in the early 90's when the music was in its infancy. Both the terms 'Jungle' and 'Drum and Bass' were in use simultaneously to describe the same music. The term drum and bass was used previously in the 70's to describe Dub versions of reggae songs. It also describes Jungle in the sense that the melody is often in the base track, while the drums provide the rhythm over the top (as with dub reggae which heavily influenced it). Approaching the mid 90's artists like Goldie pioneered a purer , more technical form of this music with tracks like 'Angel' that we recognised as different/ transitional and at the same time the old name Jungle gave way to the term Drum and Bass. We didn't know how lucky we were.
This is what I always thought about Jungle and DnB. Take the Album Drum & Bass Selection Vol1.
@@rschana100 I just googled it. Some absolute classics on that compilation. Many the Junglist movement would totally claim!
Hearing what you say but I clearly remember in the early / mid 90s and we definitely differentiated the music using each term
1991 - 93 the Hardcore rave era, the only reference to drum n bass was on some mixes because of their Reggae dub samples, such as MI 7 'Rockin Down The House (Drum & Bass Mix).
The name Jungle started to catch on mainly thru Top Buzz & Ibiza, where thru its transition 92/93 it was often referred to as Hardcore Jungle Techno.
Then by 94 when Ragga samples started to become more prolific & the Techno sounds stripped out in a particular style of Jungle that became popular, was it abbreviated to Jungle. That is the name that came to define the music overall between 93 - 96.
I never heard anyone refer to Jungle as Drum & Bass during those years, if some did then it didn't catch on until it was rebranded as part of a move to make it more popular, as 2step beats started to dominate as Jump Up emerged on one side & Techstep on the other.
@@BionicRasta I would agree with pretty much everything you say there. I was part of all of it until 1995 when I left the country.
When you wrote 'Hardcore Jungle Techno' I immediately thought of 'DJ Taktix - The Way' which uses the term as its sample. I would regard this as a Jungle record but it is from 1993. Honestly I would even say that some Ragga Twins from 91-92 like Shine Eye or Hooligan 69 is proto-Jungle. It's really difficult to date this genre to a specific moment as it is an evolution.
I have to challenge you on something. If nobody was calling this music 'Drum and Bass' until 1996, then why were there 5 'Drum and Bass Selection' albums released between 94-95? Just doesn't make sense if everyone knew it only as Jungle......
Jungle music wasn’t the problem, it was wannabe gangsta youts taking too much coke & champagne they couldn’t handle, that tainted jungle gigs! Originally, jungle raves and venues were top notch & the vibes were intoxicating & amazing. Unfortunately, it was the gangsta wannabe’s that gave Jungle music a bad rep! I was part of the birth of Acid, House & Garage & Jungle music genre era (late 1980’s - 1990’s). I raved RELIGIOUSLY, from Friday to Sunday most weekends back then, It was brilliant! It’s so sad really, because it was a beautiful time in british music history for my age group. It’s always a few that ruin it for the rest.
thanks for the memory share
Same kinda happened in Cali lotta young people organized making a movement and gangs definitely not wannabe some killers but yk that's what fuked it up not that there isn't stuff happening just there's still ah stigma from some older folks because how it got back then
Gangsta wannabes aka Chavs
I've been a raver since 1990 and to me they are just the same thing. You had Hardcore Breakbeat which became Jungle Techno/ Drum and bass
Honestly I think you've described it how it was. I've heard albums which were called Drum & Bass selection and the same tunes are called Jungle in other albums. DnB and Jungle are the same to me.
What I don't like now days there's raves called DnB Vs Jungle and that splits the scene now.
Because people love this new style Jump up sound, with weird bass lines they listen to old skool DnB/Jungle and think it's a totally different style all together.
Jungle was always very heavily raga & dancehall influenced; DnB is a cleaner Electronic beat.
Saying that, artists such as Nucleya, are making sound that blur the line between the two again. Whilst his music is more DnB, there is a reggae influence to some of his tunes, along with the South Indian beats.
Nucleya is the furthest thing from dnb lmao
Saying jungle = raga [sic] & dancehall. Is completely inaccurate and massively reductive
Not all jungle is ragga influenced. In the case of 'Just 4 u london' by Bodysnatch which came out in 1992.
Someone asked me that question and all I could say was it’s like a feel, but there’s probably a way to explain it but I can’t
Agree that music is feelings. Thanks for watching!
Drum n’ Bass is literally defined by Kick Snare Breath Kick Snare Kick Snare Breath Kick Snare Kick Snare ad nausea. Jungle is literally defined by the same reoccurring drum breaks (winstons, jb’s, Lynn Collins) getting chopped to bits and reassembled in infinite ways. They’re not remotely the same music.
@@robertrada4783 a lot of drum and bass uses chopped breaks. at least, all the drum and bass i like. i dont even know why that kind of drum and bass is in the same genre tbh.
@@robertrada4783 thats not strictly true, early D n B, used breaks, it was called drum and bass because it came from hardcore, which had lots of other shit in it, but certain artist started to strip out the shit and keep it to the bare minimum of what we wanted to hear... BASS AND DRUMS! none of that happy piano shit, it was proto jungle, jungle and drum and bass were the same thing originally. Only over time did the terms become to mean slighty difference styles, where one like you say is a stripped down beat, while the other concentrated on crazy break manipulation.
the terms came from us trying to describe the rave music, "jungle" was hardcore with a tribal, jungle feel to it, especially when dub and ragga started to be mixed into it. DnB was hardcore/jungle stripped to the bare minimum. it was all influencing each other and the terms where born by the people buying the records, and the people selling the records, DJs, fans, etc
why is one dude crying lmao
emotional times
Man was offf the Percs 😭
@@magfadez1855 drug free humans in the room that's nearly 14ft. underground
@@magfadez1855 that’s no percs. That’s pure unadulterated love for the breakz right there
Halfway through the interview someone ran into the studio and stole his tee-shirt and ripped it in half as a joke. You can see he's only wearing a hoodie.
Drum and Bass is middle class Jungle 😉
Hahaha that's gas!!
Interesting
Talking shit lad
Bs !!!! Loads of the same people who dj or produce jungle ended up in d n b ! I was there ! You know like Fabio ‘ groovrider ‘ leamon d ‘ dillinja ‘ Bailey ‘Randal ‘ jumping Jack Frost ‘ Bryan g !!!! Definitely a cap !!!!!
Meaning jungle would be "urban"? Very spicy take, but I agree.
That is an accurate story but he doesn’t really explain the difference.
Jungle uses many layers of breaks and pivotal around the amen break. It also use’s naturally sounding low lazy bass lines that sound detached from the break.
Drum and bass has stripped back simplified breakbeat with electronic synthesised bass lines.
Then there’s sub-genres.
I think his point is: the split came due producers trying to avoid negative associations with an increasingly problematic drug culture around Jungle. Then the music continued to evolve, but now with the drum and bass label. The two terms have been used interchangeably before this (also see comments here from people from that time) and continue to be used interchangeably today. For every clear example of one thing or the other, there is also a murky example, where the lines are blurred even the die hard fans could argue forever.
While we can point to valid differences (many good suggestions in the comments) but it is too easy to come across an example where each argument quickly falls apart. I know it sometimes feels like they’re separate genres, but over the years I had to admit to myself that that is only a matter of perception, and mostly even an illusion. Trying to separate them is only done retroactively with hindsight, but there was no strict intention to make something separate from Jungle from the beginning. I still think it is a complex matter with a lot of gray zone, but all in all, if I had to summarise it and to put it simple: Jungle is dnb, and dnb is Jungle.
BS, they're both the same. It's just an alternative name, nothing else. As my man @notimput says correctly, the sound evolved with a DnB label. Hip Hop for instance now is WAY different than it was in the 80's. It has evolved into a completely different sound (not for the better btw 😕), but the essence is still Hip Hop.
People from another country who weren't there not quite getting it right..
I thought it was going to be a trash take but he's describing one of the strand of the story quite well.
Do you even know who this geezer is?? Do your research mate !! Marcus has been around since the inception
Suprised no one has interviewed Marc Mac and Dego, two of the people who were there from the beginning.
Markus I love you! Please don't stop producing and get a Mother----ing podcast with interviews. I would watch! 🎵🎶🎼🔈🔉🔊🎤
CIUT 89.5 ! The Prophecy! Marcus Visionary. Mad respect! For those who know, WE KNOW . JUNGLIST MASSIVE!
The thing that is really missing out there is a solid explanation of how these genres evolved, providing actual examples of tracks released and therefore the date they occured. For example, is there an earlier example of the term "drum and bass" being used than the version of Charly on the September 1992 album 'Experience' by The Prodigy? Obviously for it to be called "Trip into Drum and Bass version" the phrase must have been in general use, and I doubt Liam himself invented the genre - more likely he heard another track (or multiple tracks) and made a version of Charly in that style.
Yes, we used to call the genre Hardcore, this was the popular term around 1991 when we was in School in London but even hardcore had fragmented styles to it, for example Hardcore-Jungle was identified as having elements of reggae/Dancehall samples in it, Happy-Hardcore had elements of pianos and pitched up vocals (due to the non existence of pitch shifting/timestretching technology of Akai/Emu samplers at the time, Happy Hardcore was more uplifting and melodic, there was also Darkside which was moody, making use of big scary/haunting synth stabs and movie samples.
Eventually as more young black British kids adopted Hardcore, the use of Reggae/Dancehall and Rare Groove samples spawned what is now known as Jungle. Drum and Bass was pretty Much born out of producers distancing themselves from the exploding Jungle scene and taking the music back to the absence of Reggae/Dancehall samples. Now we've kind of come full cycle and the lines between Jungle and Drum and Bass have been some what blurred but in General, Drum and Bass was always focused on instrumentation (Drums and Bass) with less Reggae vocals. The Prodigy, Acen (Trip 2 the moon) & labels such as Moving Shadow and Suburban Base were well known Hardcore record labels, and they're still going strong in the Drum and Bass/Jungle Scene.
I read on a king tubby CD the term 'drum n bass'. That was from the 70's and it was spelt like that too
They ignore the hardcore scene as it doesn't fit with modern woke politics.
@@imprss "Now we've kind of come full cycle..." I see what you did there. Nice. lol
@@mrglasses8953 Hardcore was the moment that all races started to go raving together. Jungle and D+B was a product of that with loads of Caribbean influence obviously. What a time. I'm sad to see the scene is now 99% white (and the violent, segregated path grime has taken).
Idk how true this is but this dnb you get in clubs now is a bit boring. Early jungle is much richer in influence and often more creative imo
They’re also as different rhythmically as death metal to bossanova
@@robertrada4783 yeah the dnb beat doesn't make me want to dance at all I want sampled drum breaks.
Dnb has its moments but your right I kinda assume if it's ah DnB club it's ah sausage fest bro energy to the max jungles not my go to but it's still one the most beautiful styles of music
Raga Jungle is the best jungle i am from Toronto, and we didn't have the negative connotation, we had a massive Rave scene in Toronto.
From my perspective as a young boy in London it was the ‘troubles in the dance’ and the resultant image change necessitated a new name. Promoters needed the name more than those in the scene (everyone hates name changes until you get used to it) to get venues like the man says here. There is a retrospective sound difference but that’s probably more of an oversimplification based on the technology available over time.
This is a pretty accurate observation. Remember the term 'dark jungle'? When you have samples in records like 'six million ways to die, chose one' then you know violence will follow.
Thank you for clarifying this. I thought Jungle was just a "type" of DnB. Now I know better.
Not really true, though it has a smidgeon of truth in there.
VERY good video, thank you
I don't know if I'm a jungle producer or a drum and bass producer... I would really like to know.
beauty is in the eye of the beholder
😂
one of the differences for me is the lack of kick drum in jungle
I think it's also worth mentioning the race element: jungle was seen as "black" music, while drum & bass came to be seen as "white" music. That was a big reason why the UK media tried to cancel jungle music, yet was later more accepting of drum & bass.
What a load of bollox
Nobody was pin pointing this music as a colour jungle was a movement and a culture it was very a underground restricted music associated with violence just like hip hop were drum n bass came after by which time wasn't as associated with violence ( not that jungle ever was a violent music ) which is why it became popular in the mainstream nothing to do with colour you don't see music I don't think Andy c ever saw it as anything else but music
Truth. Jungle raves were always described as “too black, too dark” as the split from the hardcore scene became more apparent, as previously we were all “hardcore, salt and pepper”. The white folk lost interest which fuelled the start of “happy hardcore” (any idea why it was called that?) I would regularly have to exit events due to a night being shut down as things were also getting a bit out of hand. Jungle had unfortunately gained a bad reputation in London anyway. If you don’t understand this you obviously weren’t there. Tek 9 even addressed this in “you got to slow down“ in ‘93. Such a shame but that’s the truth.
Hardcore will never die
Big up all Junglists
Amen
@@infinitycult I share your opinion to the letter, however our opinions were not typical. As Martin Luther King said “I have a dream.”
Hardcore will never die
Big up all Junglists
Amen
@@robwall5530 Yep. Looking back at the history of jungle/drum & bass with a 'racial lens' is something contemporary. No one thought of these terms as being more black or white at the time.
Wow that's crazy!
Excellent Stories with Marcus. What was it that caught your attention?
The reason Marcus mentions that DnB scene was born from Jungle. The way different scenes are born from other scenes (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse lol)
Jungle techno started in 1991
Then it developed into breakbeat hardcore
Then around 94 95 ragga jungle stuff came around and kind of broke away from the rest
To me jungle is 94 95 stuff and drum and bass was the term used by the magazines and media to describe what was left. Like intelligent drum and bass etc.
No, jungle came from hardcore. lol
more precisely 'darkside'
Jungle is basically earlier roots of drum and bass there's differences because jungle has ragga influences and slightly different to drum and bass however jungle is a subgenre of drum and bass........ More or less the same thing sort of.
I'm personally illiterate in music production so I can't really ever tell the difference between dnb & jungle
When he says hospital I’m assuming he’s referring to hospitality right?
Hospital Records.
i think DNB lost that ruffian/ thug phase a long time ago. When i got into it in 98 here in states in LA , jungle was huge, still is and dnb. But we had alot of the bad elements especially at the larger parties downtown. Shootings, rapes, drug deals gone bad inside parties(primarily b asian gangs/Hispanic
). The Orion venue in LA could be a damn right scary in the jungle area lol. But that seems to have gone away, the bad vibes of late 90s, early 00s in current parties. I still go to smaller dnb events a few times a year. Im 46, i cant do the massives anymore, just too much for me , money $$$ , and just plain old
i always wondered why it's not called jungle music as much these days. makes a lot of sense but still fawked up that it had to "change" it's actual name to be more uhh PR or PC? not sure but thank you for the history lesson on dnb music.
thats BS, it never had to change its name. I dont know what this canadian is on about
Do you like jungle or drum and bass?
So from my understanding, jungle has more breakbeats and drums?
no not at all, Jungle in general has lots of reggae/ragga/dancehall influences by way of samples, fx, vocals etc but in the broad spectrum of DnB & Jungle many tracks use the full range of breakbeats/drum patterns available.
Yes in Jungle you will hear a lean towards a particular range of drum patterns and breaks which make them 'characteristic' of Junngle of course but all types of drums/breaks are used in the whole scene.
@@richgreen5988 Kind of, but jungle in that narrow sense refers to the popular apache stuff of 1994. Listen to the jungle of late 1993 and it's more like what people define as drum & bass.
What about tunes like "valley if the shadows"? Does this "Darkside" fit with jungle or dnb?
Curious to know where Darkside fits. I see people lump Darkside/core tunes in "old school jungle" playlists, but there doesn't seem to be much ragga vocals in it. Saying that, Darkside does sound like the predecessor to speed garage. Kind of. Not sure lol
Thank You for Sharing😃. GREETINGS from CABO VERDE ISLANDS 🤩🤩🤩
I’d love to watch this video but the volume is so low I don’t understand any word
i love Marcus DJ , seen him many times in toronto 90s and early 2000s... i DONT LIKE DUBSTep. thats just me
The same thing happened with UK Garage music, the garage scene was for me was a way of life pirate radio music shops nightclubs the music in the UK garage scene was excellent
It became too popular and fools let it become what the media wanted which was a boogyman...then the enervatable happens...
True talk
Hardcore will never die
Big up all Junglists
Amen
Mc's over every single track killed garage music.
@@hoche27
It can work IF it's done properly over using then I can see your point..
So many people just call all drum & bass jungle... Shy FX is jungle which has ragga influences and MCing, LTJ Bukem is atmospheric drum & bass with spacial soulful sounds... Why can't people distinguish the difference?! 🤔🤷♂️
I've noticed people lumping darkside tunes into jungle playlists, but I've always thought that tunes like valley of shadows doesn't sound so ragga influenced compared to tunes like prizna-fire. Maybe the playlist creators are getting mixed up lol
Hip hop/funk/soul/blues was US
Reggae was Jamaica
Calypso was Barbados
Jungle was UK
Drum and Bass was White kids not wanting to be identified as into Black Music . The the separation of the same thing began
classes
How has someone not made a meme with that cryin' dude yet?
i'm lmao for minutes
You need to ask those that were there at the time. Whilst its true the Ragga influence of Jungle in '94 brought in bigger black crowds & along with that the gang violence that followed them, where previously it was largely seen as a white thing when Techno sounds was the main influence during the Hardcore rave era.
However i don't believe it was a conscious effort by producers to remove the 'Ragga' black element in Jungle.. It was just a progression of the music as 2step Jump Up started to become more popular from 95/96 & that sampled heavily from Hip Hop & had gangster lyrics in it.
Rather they changed the name from Jungle to DnB as part of a rebranding to make the music more commercial, remember 96 is when major labels like Virgin & Sony wanted to signed up some of the bigger names. So the motive was more about money than distancing the scene from a bad reputation caused by a minority of those who caused trouble.
That is different to the darker Techstep style of DnB he is referencing, such as Virus & Bad Company, which became more popular with white students. But Jump Up came to dominate as Techstep became Neurofunk then disappeared whereas Jump Up carried thru as the popular style of DnB in the Y2Ks.
Jungle came first and then drum n bass came out of it later !!! Jungle would be Leviticus burial ! Or dj ss lighter etc !!! Drum n bass first era would be Goldie terminator etc ! I have been into it since 94 and went to raves and dj and night vinyl ! Never heard about this meeting ????And went to loads of raves in 98 that had jungle and d n d and still had raga mcs !!!!
* bought
I made Drum and Bass in 93, prior to that I made Hardcore. The people I made music with came from a Hip Hop background and that's where the breakbeat influence came in. Jungle came from the Reggae influence, there's an area in Kingston Jamaica called Jungle, the DJ's would always shout out their people. That's why you hear it on many tracks with samples from sound clashes. That's my humble opinion from being involved.
There was no concious effort to elimiate or change anything. The music just evolved sideways and forwards. Its just this simple really.
Simply put jungle has soul an groove an bounce. Dnb is repetitive robotic and filled with loud screeching noise that makes your eats bleed
not as ba as si-trance
Isn't that jump up dnb?
@@ChasBeretta check it out, you need something to get through them nights !
Anybody who thinks they know what d&b is should listen to this from 1993: ruclips.net/video/6RyNplWC-qs/видео.html.
Then read Invisible Man's comments in 'The History of Drum & Bass' wikipedia.
Can't accept Drum and Bass. We need Jungle I'm afraid...
It's all Jungle. Don't hit me.
We always used the name drum n bass I first heard the term in 92 Mc fearless on weekend rush. same with Jungle.i remember the name getting thrown about in the early days ,tunes like body snatch , way in my brain. By 93 though Jungle was running tings Leviticus , Warning , worries in the dance . Then by late 95 Drum n bass minus the old skool samples of dance hall reggae ska . Instead a lot of Gangstar krs1 samples were doing the rounds. Minimalistic tunes like pulp fiction Jungle name was being dropped and Drum n bass was on every flyer.
The smith and mighty track from 1992 called 'Killa' had a sample in it which said 'Back to the drum n bass' so the term was doing the rounds already back then.
I agree. both terms were always used. It’s the same genre, just a different points in time. The ‘movement’ evolved and changed quicker back then. A lot of people cherry pick the past and try to dissect all the differences into categories. Same genre, different styles. It’s always been about experimentation with sound alongside technology and going down different unexplored routes.
Noooooo jungle was council estate music in london no matter if your black or white if you grew up in the manor why is everyone saying black and white thats dumb my estate was black white asisn every race in the world
cant tell which one of them had more weed lol
Camo and dreadlocks
Imagine them telling us how we lived 🤣😂🤣😂
look into a guy called gerald. forever changing... moving on!breakbeat to d&b to jungle. too many silly terms for genres now. disco house techno with 50 variants of each. pretentious in my book. dig it or dont x
People get things mixed up. Dude a know he claims to be "and EDM head" claims that House music came from dubstep, and that LMFAO were the first to make house lmao
My comment full of autocorrect
just wait till they find out about breakcore (jungle on cocaine)
At the end of the day they’re all just sub genres of Jungle
Why does it look like the one dude is crying?
Wildcat!
dide on the left looks like hes at his peak heroin high
@@Neil_Hanson would you put money on it ?
The difference is production but it's all jungle and it all can be traced back to detroit techno.
Very strange take.
Im sorry but what is he talking about.. Im a producer of Jungle and Drum and Bass., i made some of the biggest Jungle and DnB tracks from 1994 to present date. I made Dred Bass { what the time dread) that was jungle as pure as it gets. no one said lets called it DnB to get more venues for gigs. jungle got its name from Mc mad P from Top Buzz. he started saying this is the sound of jungle techno. it progressed from there Drum and bass was a name that was also attached to the sound. Probably more so to the more intelligent style tracks such as logical progression etc.
Thank you for your service!
Yeah man, it baffles this explanation! He also stated reggae wasn't popular in the UK till the 90s as well 🤔😂
😂😂😂 is it.
Then a lot of the bad elements fucked off to Garage and the Garage nights started to get MOODY as fuck. True story
Basically they turned it white
Americans make me laugh when the discuss British dance culture
The jungle raves were violent. As were the drum and bass raves up to the early 2000s. Stratford rex was a war zone. No one really cares though. Drum and bass is different to jungle. It started as break beat. It's faster. It came from jungle, but its different. And a world away from what it is now. Safer, but those who were there in the late 90s had the time of their lives. It was the fucking bollocks.
Areyousureyouaretalklingaboutjunglenotukgarage?
King of the rollers and SPY aren't jungle...
Had a meeting 🤣😅😂 your talking utter rubbish
Opinions vary
I saw a video with Photek talking about said meeting, saying he opposed the name drum & bass, and that was the start of him losing interest. Can't remember where it was or I'd link it. interesting though
@@ROBERTTONUS it happened with a few crap mc,s and no premier league dj,s. The jungle crew
@@ROBERTTONUS done my degree 87 till now. 50 soon been there through the lot . Groove ,lenny dee frost evil eddie, randle , kid batchelor, Franky bones , fabio , Mr c, Hype and all there pals. Joey belram and Carl Cox. Sorry forgot Andy , scotty , lou vega
Guess you should brush up on your history and look up Goldie and who this Drum n bass committee was and what the meetings meant for the future of the genre.. You wouldnt have drum n bass without goldie to put it simply
wrong
jasjajsja ese wey esta bien drogado
Ive listened to jungle drum n bass since 93. Some of the things said here were not true. Im from england. I know what im talking about.
Promoters not getting venues due to them being jungle events?? Not true atall. There were plenty of venues and lots of raves. Lol
If you know what you're talking about, share your take on it. I'd love to have a simple explanation that I can share.
yeah i want to know the specifics of what you mean. is there a difference between jungle and drum and bass or is it just a name change?
It’s not really just a name change. D&B stripped out a lot of the reggae influences.
There are of course a lot of exceptions (Trust Me by Roni Size is a good exception.), but D&B became far more experimental and cutting edge compared to Jungle did. They aren’t the same thing but they share a lot of things.
@@Danlows1 how different is jungle from D&B melody wise?
@@bladedmittens thats a very hard question to answer as there’s a very wide range in D&B
Bullshit!
because ?
Now what seperates jungle, ragga jungle, breakbeat hardcore and breakbeat?
is the host cooked?
96 97 .....it changed to ed rush style to attract more whits
have always hated those damn whits
Nothing controversial here: the whitewashing of jungle = drum and bass
You don’t call music jungle nor do you call it monkey. It is all about middle class guilt.
One may have come out of the other’s scene, but Jesus Christ man, Jungle and Drum n’ Bass are practically diametrically opposed.
Nonsense.
No they ain't
Jungle music is far superior to drum and bass in my opimion.
Two foreigners trying to understand all this is ludicrous 😂. Drum n Bass is written on newer hardware. It’s as simple as that.
All types of DnB are simply severely watered down versions of Jungle. Boring and monotonous. End of... 👎
What the hell is going on with your face Jelo.... I'm genuinely concerned as to what is happening off stage, you seem extremely uncomfortable!
It's gonna be ok
@@JELOofficial promise?
So historically Drum and Bass is a whitewash of Jungle, out of neccesity.
What is dude goin on about….😂 he hasn’t a clue
this guy is talking pure bollocks
K. Educate us if you know better.