The only thing that can save S2 is reducing time spent in LFG as DPS and making healing/tanking 10x more fun than it currently is. I'm not gonna play a role I don't find fun and I'm done sitting in lfg more than actually playing the game
This is the only truly relevant thing, everything else is just jerking around. Depletes are a first world problem, while no tanks and healers is starving children of m+.
I think they should make tanks have 10 second GCDs. I think they went light handed with making tanking not fun. Could possibly add more caster, or just completely remove melee enemies to insure that you can never make big pulls.
So this is my thing about all of this. This helps like 1 percent of the m+ community(the keys not being depleted below 12 that is). I am a main tank and was playing paladin before we were good this season and I would say I am a top one percent player, that being said to push 12s and up everyone has to be a top one percent player in your group down to the last dps. I’ve been in many 12s where the key completions (and timed) did not come down to me pulling well or surviving because I did all of that the problem has been the one dps repeatedly dying and blowing my timer to bits I’ve lived through many full group wipes had the healer and dps come back to me and then all die again and this is even playing with people in discord and doing call outs. So then I’m resorting to doing 10s and 11s just to fill vault but then you run into the same people who aren’t necessarily bad they are doing good numbers but they make maybe 2 mistakes the whole dungeon and that still depletes your key cause their screw ups suck the timer down 3 to 5 minutes and now I have to push my key back up back to 10 or 11 to bring it back in a farmable zone. If blizzard wants to truly improve mythic plus they need to remove depletes period so those of us who are stuck on farm cause we can’t find players good enough don’t get punished for simply trying to fill our group.
According to raider io there is roughly 2.3% of all toons with score are 2850 or higher. And how many people that are 2850 have multiple toons at that level. Blizzard has done NOTHING to help the average pug m+ experience. Its quite sad.
they actually have people are not realizing 12s are going to be easier then they are now the damage increase will be 2 % instead of 10% thats a huge nerf. once i got over 625 ilvl 10s and 11s are trivial. but 12's are such a big jump atm that they are genuinely hard. you only need like 3 or 4 12s timed to get 2850.
They have done a lot actually based on overall nerfs to dungeons and making the lower keys give more valorstones and crests. This one change is just as you say a "nothing change" for the average player, so why are you so upset when it legit is just nothing but a net positive since it doesn't effect the people you are talking about. Its just weird that wow is the only place where people feel every change has to be catered towards the casual players and people shouldnt be rewarded for playing the game more. They obviously shouldnt tune it around the top players but legit never being able to do any changes without being met with backlash from people it has nothing to do with is weird.
The no-deplete change is so tone-deaf. I'm astonished. Most people that care about depletes are in the 6-10 range. Requiring an achievement for the functionality is stupid. This change will have almost no impact, since it's specifically for +12s only. Blizzard just refuses to take easy wins and will let the game die with their weird mindset and fear of being too lenient.
idk i think alot of people who have a 12 key are also very paranoid about it as well because they don't want to chance there key so they are going to gatekeep harder when depletes are present. if anything it will be incentive for people to push high on there main then be rewarded on there alts with no depletes.
2850...... rating for no deplete is just a joke a this point, my god, stop saying that is a good thing, ppl in lower keys already having a hard time, is not a pug friendly thing to do
Reason is people who play dungeons at and above +12 literally get nothing from doing it besides the score if they succeed in pushing the key. It's inefficient to run anything above +8-10 if you are just doing it for the rewards. If people are depleting keys at low levels, they really should just try to get a little better or preferably find a group to play with.
If only M+ players could get dinars aswell... and also the possibility of getting the same Ilvl as mythic raid from high m+... Meanwhile they keep forcing M+ players to raid and the result is just people quitting
Your guild is bad then cause healing is very easy if people don’t get hit by mechanics and use defensives. Tanking also is legit afk in a lot of raid fights very easy
@@artavian2459 let me guess, you're a dps at 2k rio Edit: what does tanking in raid has anything to do in a video about m+? You're bat at context comprehension...
@ tanking in m+ is just as easy. Also I just said raid since you were talking about your guild. I heal i dps I tank the whole game is easy just a lot of bad players with ego, I sit at 2700io cause there’s no reason to do keys past 10s
The devs only cater to the ones who keep pushing and bitching that +15 is too easy, that's less than 1% of the playerbase. Now it's not even easy to join a +2 since everybody is a veteran and the entrance is so much higuer by making +2 equivalent to the old +10. Before we used to have a "learning curve" to see which routes were feasible, use well your cds in packs and knowing how to properly heal or tank going from +2 to +10 and even properly gear through those keys since people used to get rewards from keys that weren't just currency, but Blizzard wanted to ramp up the difficulty, without any reasonable excuse to me, and making +2 to +7 a slog and from "challenger's peril" onward a true nightmare specially for new players. I tried to bring some friends back to WoW but they couldn't stand this, everything now is for veterans, long time players or straight up esport players or pros, or even people that waste a huge amount of time online. Seriously I don't see a future of M+ huge engagement that we had in the past if Blizzard continues going this route, too bad Blizzard doesn't allow criticism or player/tester feedback.
They changed heroic to be equal to the old Mythic (level 0) and increased M+ to be about 10 levels higher. If you want to do slightly easier content than a +2 you could do heroic dungeons. And now you can just queue for the old M0 keys, which is a lot better than actively having to look for a group, and not being able to estimate when your key will begin. They also introduced delves this expansions, which is much more targetted towards casual players. So i really dont understand why you think they only care about the ‘high-end’ players
@@thijsbrundel6102 Not really, because you are not addressing the content that people want to do and join like they used to, you are just saying that people that doesn't want to go full tryhard should be segregated do a different game mode, that's not how you solve a problem specially one that didn't exist before.
@@CsStoker you are still about to do the content you want to do and they are actually having people in the lower keys get more stone and crests now and they are constantly giving out basically free gear to these players. Why are they legit not allowed to have any changes for high end without people who dont do that content to be like "why are they getting good changes wahh". Cant they be allowed to work on the game for both of the players the +12 change is nothing but a positive because it does nothing for the casuals so they shouldnt worry about it and its a good thing for people who push past 12. Its not like that change is also taking away from extra time for the casuals either since the majority of the game is catered around them (as it should since that is majority of the player base). But that is basically saying you are upset that there is some positive PVP change happening when you dont PVP at all.
@@VaPoRPhantom I can say the same, why move the difficulty from +10 to +2? was so bad to push +24 and +25? what was the point of ramping up the difficulty? what was the point of making queues for +3 and +4 or at least 1 hour? what was the point of making lower keys easy to access to play and learn? The learning curve was removed, that was a terrible change that isn't being addressed on these season 2 changes, specially with the awful picks of dungeons that they did.
@@CsStoker the key level change was strictly a good one for everyone since it required a lot less keys to get the same thing done, everyone know this not just high key players benefited. In fact the ones who were the average player benefitted the most from the change. There is still definitely a learning curve, i don't know what data you are using to make that up. The whole system in the for of keys is a learning curve by itself and nothing has so far been done to get rid of it. Also new players wont want to get into plus 12s, and if they do why shouldnt it be more difficult to get into higher content when that is how the game should work. If you want to push higher content then just get better at the game, there are many resources that is available for people to do that. What people dont understand is that not all content should be tailored towards legit everyone who plays the game. If people cant push 12s, its ok they dont have to noone is forcing them to. If they want to then they just have to use resources to get better at the game. People feel like they have to be able to access everything at all times when WoW is legit the only game where people are that entitled. It used to not be as bad because people realized how much they had to grind to get to the same level as some of the people who do just play only this game. They made it less of a grind for everyone and now people complain that they cant do the same content because they can see that its doable but dont want to put an effort into actually trying to do the content.
@@Painchiller While I am, I never said it was necessary at all level, but it is simply true that Aug made tanks and healers stronger at any key level. The question is not about them being mandatory, it's about making a role already in need feel weaker.
Are you sure they are trying to fix things? The achievement is a joke because it's not helping the players who need it and the tier token removal is 100% designed to squeeze more playtime out of players.... Things are not looking very positive. In fact these changes are very concerning.
well between 1000 and 2650 you have: portals, mount, KSM. what more do you need in that range? once you're at 2650, you have all your portals and can spam 10s without much issue for vault. there's very little incentive to go higher than +10, despite +12 introducing a whole new affix. i think you just want to be given loads of free stuff for logging in, at least that's how it sounds
@@heathmcrigsby All the rewards except "internet points" are in that range already lol. There's a gap between 0,1% title and "just running 10s for the vault" that really could need some incentive.
Tuning is going to make or break it. Currently dungeons are overtuned. This must be changed and/or stops must be reverted to how they were before TWW. M+ is too much stress now, stop designing PVE for the top 1-5%.
Amen. There are so many of us that want something challenging but for it to be fun and not dread trying it. I think they made a mistake with the key squish. It took out the low m+ that so many learned in
When people repeat this dumb ass mantra about reverting the cc change, I always remember the azure vault first pull, where 5 ppl without comms either don't cc at all (why would you, it's a bl pull, right) or burn all their stops at the same time and die anyways.
There should be renown track and Dinars for M+. I ran Siege of Boralus 23+ times and I still don't have the trinket. It accomplished 2 things. I'm burned out and I hate Siege of Boralus.
I have the same problem with grim batol and mists for those trinkets. And I need those for two alts. ._. I cannot stand especially mist any more. tred'nova and that stupid guessing game from 2nd. boss ._.
It's not even that, it just won't drop below 12. Meaning, failed 14 will still drop to 13. It's just separating elites from peasantry, they are very insisting on reinforcing this line they already created with the difficulty switch from 11 to 12.
IF no depletes are given to lower keys, then there would be no player doing low keys, this will create bigger gap for new player to start pushing keys. 1-11 is your learning window, so you can pick and choose which difficulty you want to tackle and work your way up. you don't farm +12 for loot.
@@hamakakun playing up to 11 is not learning ground, the learning ground was the squished levels that don't exist anymore and I haven't heard a single reason why. Saying that depletes are for newcomers to have someone to play with is peak irony even for a Blizz puppy. Newcomers were literally flipped off and told to play delves instead of m+. I don't even think depletes are big or even a problem at all, but I don't make up bs to defend it.
It's going to take weeks if not months for those dinars to even start and at that point most people stop playing the season, this does absolutely nothing for classes that heavily rely on specific trinkets or weapons
Notice specific trinkets and weapons only fall for the 1 percent, the 1 percent mainly the youtubers seem to have every biz trinket right off the bat. Only falls for us on champion.
I enjoyed playing overall. Only problem is with the amount of people constantly leaving keys i wasnt able too play as much as i was wanting too. Thats what ruined the season for me.
There should only be key depletion in the pushing range (beyond the maximum gear range from the vault). Players trying to gear up should not be punished, especially when someone leaves their key. With depletion of the key: The process of finding a group, running the dungeon, and then potentially not upgrading the key is already time-consuming. Adding to that, there's no guarantee that the key will be completed, which delays progression and access to higher gear from the +10 vault item. This issue is compounded when the same thing happens repeatedly, such as attempting a +10 key. Additionally, the randomness of key assignments is frustrating-90% of my keys seem to be City of Threads for example. On top of that, despite all this effort, players only get to choose one item from the vault per week, which may not even be an upgrade. This system feels overly punishing and demotivating for players trying to progress in Mythic+.
So if someone is trying to push higher keys - they are the ones who should get punished for failing those high keys? You think all the people running 10+ keys play with dedicated groups or something? Depleting +12 leaves you with a +11 key - the worst key to do, it's often better to lower it's level to +10 so at least people going after weekly will sign up. If it's demotivating to people trying to gear up - you think it's not demotivating for people who want to push scores, and who have already proven that those sub +10 keys aren't difficult for them and who most likely get no rewards other than the possible score upgrade?
@@_Augie I understand why it's there, especially at lower levels. If you are failing low level dungeons, that means you simply need to get a little bit better. In my guild we have people who do grey raiding parses all the time who are still doing their +8s and weekly +10s without any hassle. Sorry to say, but if you are constantly depleting low keys - the problem isn't necessarily 'the toxic community'.
so those who have a score greater than 2850 probs dont have issues with keys depleting any way so WHO is this beneficial for? once again blizzard showing they have no clue what they are doing
Of course there are issues with depleting at that level, and any failed key hurts those people even more - especially if it drops from +12 to +11, or lower if they are unlucky when pugging.
If they were actually desperate, they wouldn't put in these half ass changes. They are absolutely tone deaf to the real issues. No cap, my friends list and guild have been empty for weeks now. We went from running keys everyday to no one online....the 12 wall affects MUCH less players numerically, than the 8-10 wall. They are out of touch, like most of the influencers on RUclips.
The achievement should simply be "your key canno't deplete anymore for the season". 12 is when the keys begin to be interesting difficulty wise, and depletion just gatekeep people without huge game time. Being able to chain pull the first pull of SV without fear of depletion allow people to train, as if you were progressing a raid boss
@@Damon970 what do you mean, have you not played season 1 at all? 12s have a huge spike in damage taken so for tanks and healers it's super important to know which CDs to use and where and you can only do that with spamming the same key over and over again
@@Damon970 every new routes, every new pull you need to do to in order to time high keys needs practice, and it sucks that the only way you can train is by trying, depleting, upgrading your key back to the key level you need, hoping you get the key you want, and have another shot
Must've been harsh end of the year for Blizzard.. New wow patch is a failure, diablo 4 is dead, overwatch is dead. The future of M+ is looking very grim considering all the existing issues and the dungeon rotation in upcoming season. While those changes are a step into the right direction, those are to me just bandages on wounds which won't heal for a long time.
I just wish they would target the pug hell at +8. So many people aren't pushing higher and just spamming +8 and when it's your actual progress level it's impossible to get into groups because you're competing against 630 ilvl people wanting to faceroll content. More rewards from high keys and maybe some diminishing return for spamming same level constantly.
@Dxnnysc doesn't seem like it :D seems like people still have way too much of an easy time to spam +8 while overgearing the content massively instead of pushing higher
Like I've said so many times before. The wow devs are blind monkeys who have no idea what they are doing. Nerf dungeon scaling, health and damage. Nerf raid damage and reduce the amount of mechanics the bosses do. THIS IS A CASUAL GAME, MAKE IT CASUAL AGAIN AND THE PLAYERS WILL COME BACK.
Isnt it funny how the correlation between their political choice and game dev choices are all terrible? Guess what political party they vote for lmaooo
@@Painchilleractually as a rogue i literally do nothing for the group so there’s no reason for people to invite me, also monks are useless those are two of the top of the head warriors useless too
Only streamers and youtubers do M+12 and up. The average joes do M+8-10 for gilded crests and weekly vault mythic track. I'm hyped for S2. Blizz is trying some positive changes and improvements but that +12 no deplete is stupid.
the depletion change pisses me off. They obviously realize depletion is an issue, but they still refuse to actually fix the issue for 99.9% of players. Even if you're above 2850 you need to be depleting low keys to benefit from the change, which is like the smallest minority the could've possibly targeted.
The only change I desperately want them to make is to reduce the myth track vault requirement down from a +10 to a +9. Myth track in the vault not appearing until the same level you get portals is wild to me. This is even worse since portal runs are harder this season than previous seasons because of the tuning changes and the inclusion or fort and tyran at that +10s and above. For a large chunk of the player base, a portal run is the highest dungeon challenge they will face all season so plenty of people listing 10 keys are not treating them as vault farming keys but are instead being needlessly selective so they can get their portal. Pugging those was a disaster for a large part of the early season. and might even be annoying now, for those reasons and I was consistently getting more myth track vault slots from raid than mythic+ until I took a break. Blizzard can just drop it to a +9 so there is a distinction between vault farming keys and portal runs. +9s are still more difficult than the +16s and +18s for s2 and s3 of DF respectively. They are still certainly far from trivial for the people who wouldn't get mythic gear otherwise so it's not like dropping it one level will suddenly see people who wouldn't normally get mythic gear fully kitted out in bis.
My problem with Dinar's is they only include raid items. I've done 54 Grim Batol's and still don't have Gale, I've done 23 Mists and haven't got changeling. In total I've done 77 runs in these 2 dungeons trying to hunt 2 trinkets and will end S1 without getting either of them. This is so incredibly frustrating.
The no=deplete needs work. If they changed it so that each achievement (1600, 2000, 2850) would unlock no depletes below a certain level it would be much better, but being punished for even trying to run keys is never a good feeling and has ran most of my friends out of LFG.
HM im 5/8 +12 and 2846 so I dunno, depletion seems like it doesn't achieve much to anyone. edit: I "lied", Im 2867 but anywas, still feel the same way. Fixes virtually nothing.
Wait, does the rework of Xalatath's guile mean that +12 will have NO bargain affixes, but also no multiplicative scaling addition? Will this mean nominally that +12 would be easier than +11 if you weigh the regular key scaling factor of 1 keystone level against not having to do bargain mechanics?
i've always said you only need aug for +14 and up. i main dev evoker and i pugged 25-26s in DF although i was aware i was out of place, cause when i would play aug it was SO clear how much smoother it made runs +24 and up go. just made me want to play it even less because it felt so out of my control. if they remove blistering scales, or just go all the way and put it and maybe defy fate in the class tree, that would be absolutely amazing for dev and pres. if they're gonna live in aug's shadow forever (more so in m+, they are both fantastic for raid rn) then they need some real improvement. make it so those talents are harder to take for raid than m+ or something
I'm seeing the comments point this out already and even someone in your chat whilst you recorded this said. Making it so that the top 1-2% of players can't deplete their keys below a 12 unless they choose to doesn't fix M+ for the other 98%. It's kind of an irrelavent change as you mentioned. No-one can say this nor explain this enough times, in my opinion. Tank and healers need buffs to mitigation, not through put. Blizzard don't need to make it so that raids are run with 3 healers and 15 dps to help M+, they just need to bump the general survivability of tanks by 5-10% and healers by 5%. That gets you over the threshold on how many mechanics make Prot Pallys randomly fall over, give BDKs a bit of a better time setting up a pull, Druids will be able to handle magic damage more, Brewmasters will still be on a ticking clock, and DHs won't be dragging the mob pack all over the dungeon. Also, healers will be able to focus more on healing and less on not dying themselves. It's such a simple tune to impliment, but I think with the new tier set coming out they aren't going to make any changes to make the experience of learning how to tank or heal any easier. That's what I think is important "Learning how to Tank and Heal" because right now, you'll get bullied out of a dungeon if you don't know what to do.
The problem with having the no deplete at +12 is that it's not relevant for those players, because they are already generally good enough to not deplete a the rate people stuck at sub 10s do.
The biggest problem with the ubiquity of aug evoker is only them can perform the supportive role on a 5 man group and then you only have 2 spots for DPS left. Being a DPS in this game is an eternal queue and battle against each other to try and seduce the few hot available people on tind.. i mean lfg. What if it was a 6 man group instead of 5 ? Give support role to other couple classes? Break the divine trinity a bit by giving DPS more healing choices like Elder Scrolls ? M+ is only thing that keeps me playing, and boy is it boring 95% the time. Also, give monks a channeling physical AMZ in the form of baseline Zen Meditation. Maybe a dev is reading? They aren't
First step is making tanking/healing less miserable. Just make them OP as fuck. Have a tank beat dps on the dmg meter when it pops cds, have healers be able to slam HP bars and have ways to deal dmg while they heal. It's not 2004, the majority of players want to do some damage, have Healers and tanks do some damage while being able to fill their roles WITH EASE
I think I would appreciate if they would smooth out the lower level m+ keys. I would say it would probably work better if they just like smoothed out the progression in keys by a factor of like 10. So a plus 6 would be a 16 and then that gives far more smoothness to the curve. Then they could even move the gilded crests to like a +16
Love that they are re-considering depletion, but its just not the right fix. Those trying to push 14s this does not help and they will still be in LFG for hours. Even having to run your own key 1 time to bring it up to a 14 to get score is an unrealistic time sink. The risk that the key will turn into a 14 that you've already done is too great a problem for it to be worth risking your time.
Wow. Didn't think they'd listen. This is great! Or at least a step in the right direction. I know a lot of the comments point to fact that this does nothing to help players in the 7-8 key range but you also have to consider the huge jump in difficulty from +11 to +12. Also, I'm not sure it would be right to completely eliminate depletes below a +10, because anything up to a +10 can affect the ilvl of your gear rewards. So I'd lower the achievement to completing all +10s and I'd introduce a "deplete counter" for all keys below a +10. Something where you're given three strikes each week and your key doesn't start depleting until you've used those three strikes up.
Honestly i think AUG just need to be reworked into a tank Spec. We do not have a Mail wearer tank, and this could work rather well and even fit from a fantasy point of view. What do i mean; 1. Black spell even now are defensive. Ebon might can still be a dmg buff just reduce it to a lower percent of the main stat of the evoker and add dmg reduction on the AUG only. Text can read the Evoker channels his inner black magic to augment his skin reducing dmg taken by 15% the magic overflows increasing the dmg of DPS player on the evoker party by 3% for 15 sec. Give it like a 30 sec cd. Main on use cd 2. They can change some of the bronze to be time magic. Example; Time paradox; The evoker strength his connection to Nozdurmo pausing time for 8 sec; Dmg taken during Paused Time is taken as a 4 sec dot as time speeds so fast the evoker only takes 70% of the dmg taken during the 8 sec. 1.5 min cd. The main mechanic for them can be called temporal wounds. The way it can work is like this AUG Evoker accumulate wounds that create a healing absorb on them for 10% of the dmg taken (Wounds stack to 10) (internal cd of 5 sec). Casting Fire Breath Augments the evoker power causing a temporary connection to Alexztrasa that burns temporal wounds reducing its count by 3 and healing the evoker for x amount (play on the ability she has burning Deathwing tentacles. Alternatively they can go the corruption route, and make the class heavy on Deathwing influence endurance at the cost of sanity kind of thing. A lof the spell on their kit could be reworked to work around removing temporal wound and healing. I dont know this is of the top of my head, but im pretty sure. It can work Honestly support style character dont seem to work well with WOW holy trinity it seems. They could also go full dps with AUG PS: Aug would stay Int base, so it would be a INT / Mail tank. Anyways thats my bad cook for the day.
If 12s don't deplete, after a few weeks, there will be very few +12 keys available for people who are just getting to that range. I don't think the change to depletes is a good idea. It takes the stakes out of the key. The keyholder can decide after a few pulls or the first boss that they don't like something and just quit the key.
Keeping the no deplete for 2000 rio or atleast 8-10 keys range will make people more interested in pushing. That's where there is a massive change in player skill and dungeon difficulty also! 2850 players now basically 3 chest an 12 to get a weekly key...
I hate this thing of non depleting a key when 2,850 is reached. It another non casual thing. Anyway, why do casual players have to struggle with key depletion? Where doas it say: "you choose wrongly your pug group, you have to suffer!" or "if you want to train to improve, do it at lower level!". It's just plain stupid.
@Hekk. They play into it. Both "end game" systems play into the toxic behavior. M+ with the "timer" and death counter + penalties. In Mythic Raiding it's Toxic mega guilds who "gate keep" through the use of "parses". The "Server" structure on many clusters plays right into the "gate keeping" by only having 1 or 2 "Mythic" guilds on these clusters. Another way they play into it is by not releasing Mythic content in the "LFG" function until after the Race for World First.
Blizzard only caters to the elite group who can get to 12 keys, this does not surprise me. It's the little guys that pay your bills blizzard remember that. BTW trolls will troll the lower keys, because that for the trolls that is the only fun thing to do anymore is troll.
People wanted depletes, to be gone, they pulled typical blizz move, gave basically useless "no-deplete" gaslight the community, same style like with gilded catch up until recent changes...
I don't mind support in fact I think Blizz should lean into it with the tinker class and making a third spec for DH that is also support. That way groups bring a tank, healer 2 dps and a support class.
how to fix M+: 1. reverse the changes to kicks 2. make the difficulty increase between key levels more gradual. 3. design the dungeons so that they trash packs have fewer mechanics and casters so that bigger pulls can be done again but also that you need to pull bigger or you won't time. Nobody in M+ likes this pulling one pack at a time BS. 4. Buff healers in general. 5. and of course, stop making mechanics the same color as the floor
The only reality where I would be ok with the catalyst change.. if charges were every week so you didnt feel terrible catalyzing a veteran or champion piece.
What I am hearing is that Devastation evoker is now way better, because all the utility other than blistering scales on the tank is available to devastation.
everything is good and all but if they keep not giving a flying fuck about class balance after RtWF nothing will stick .... If you can't get invited into keys on your class it is completely pointless
The worst of the worst players are playing aug to stay under the radar of being disgustingly bad on a real dps class. Nerfing aug to the point no one brings them to m+ anymore would be the best change they have done in a while.
Purely a comment to agree with everyone else who can see the no deplete change is completely irrelevant to the overwhelming majority of players. This change being painted as a real success story is laughable
Why can't they give us Dinars instead of those bonus catalyst uses? It's ass that even when M+ is my main content i have to play raids, also m+ loot is so fucking bad right now, like Hero track items for everything, not even myth for +14 is crazy, you're stuck in hoping for weekly and even in weekly there's like no chance of getting your bis trinkets or other items when they come from raid
They really dont understand gaming. Let us pick a keystone level we have completed and go just like rifts in diablo. Everything else is just there to purposefully waste your time.
I disagree with you on the catalyst. Only the sweaty neckbeards are getting AOTC or KSM out the gate. The rest of us get out full Tier Set well before we get either. You don't even have to raid or do M+ to get are Hero gear thanks to Delves.
I quit after dragon flight l, they still haven't balanced this M nonesence. This game relies on a social network that is full of mental illness, elitists. Wow, it is tanking, and overwatch is non-existent. This is the year Blizzard will see massive changes to their employment structure. 0 good IP, what's left of their company other than a shell of good times once had. I will always remember, wow, from the peak starting from November 23, 2004.
So the deplete change isn't going to save anything for the vast majority of players I think they need to do way more. They at the very least need to do something about depletes for other keystone levels I would prefer if they just removed them below 12 but if not since they seem against it they could have something where once you time 10 keys at a certain keystone level or higher you can no longer deplete below that level so after I've timed 10 8's or higher my key never drops below 8 unless I manually reduce it.
It just doesn't seem to matter to the powers to be. STOP the punishing timegating. STOP tank nerfs/busters that one shot. Find a way, dig deep and make healing ENJOYABLE to play ACROSS the board. IMHO, ALL tanks and ALL healers should be meta in M+. Start there just see what happens? And for the LOVE OF GOD STOP LISTENING TO THE 1%>>>They will play regardless
So still no myth track rewars on vault on +8 plus...... no buying dinars with tokens from the vault, can be 12 tokens from the vault 2 weeks worth, its punishing but would be a huge improve. So this is still a game for the streamers. Great blizzard really is going all out to save mythic plus.... I got to be honest but i almost puke when i hear quazzi just talking about making the game better for him at 2850 rating, blows my mind.... if he could play the game solo with dungeon folowers he would must likely love it since he only wants updates to keys +12 plus, i mean he is talking about +15/+16, that's all of fame thats literally 1% of a small group of people who plays mythic plus. Does quazzi wnats mythic plus to die? I don't get it, he was normally a man of the people, now he is a man of the 1% players.
The token to catalyst change is such a dogshit idea. What if I start late in the season and have like 4-5 catalyst charges already, whats the point of getting another charge then??
just dont make it so punishing like i make a party i accept almost everyone since u can run lvl 9/10 keys which is the highest i have gotten so far with 600 ilvl and then someone dies and all leave like idk
So they buff the damage output of the DPS and what about the tanks output ? I hope threat generation gets improved as I have a friend who plays Retri pally and I cannot hold agro when he opens with all cooldowns or they reduce the burst of other classes because if i have cooldowns running then it,s ok but on the pulls where i do not have cd,s he just rips agro. They need to make crests account wide and make an Achievement "Experienced Protector" and Reward "Make crests account wide" so this would tempt more people into playing tanks , At the moment people do not want to play tanks or healers because there is no reward for it and you get a lot of s*** in pug groups who are quick to blame the tank or healer. There has to be more of a benefit to playing an important role ie.. tank or healer because without a good supply of those the LFG tool is bascailly dead.
The only thing that can save S2 is reducing time spent in LFG as DPS and making healing/tanking 10x more fun than it currently is. I'm not gonna play a role I don't find fun and I'm done sitting in lfg more than actually playing the game
word
This is the only truly relevant thing, everything else is just jerking around. Depletes are a first world problem, while no tanks and healers is starving children of m+.
Dont worry they will figure this out in S4 just like df S4
I think they should make tanks have 10 second GCDs. I think they went light handed with making tanking not fun. Could possibly add more caster, or just completely remove melee enemies to insure that you can never make big pulls.
This comment needs to be pinned
So this is my thing about all of this. This helps like 1 percent of the m+ community(the keys not being depleted below 12 that is). I am a main tank and was playing paladin before we were good this season and I would say I am a top one percent player, that being said to push 12s and up everyone has to be a top one percent player in your group down to the last dps. I’ve been in many 12s where the key completions (and timed) did not come down to me pulling well or surviving because I did all of that the problem has been the one dps repeatedly dying and blowing my timer to bits I’ve lived through many full group wipes had the healer and dps come back to me and then all die again and this is even playing with people in discord and doing call outs. So then I’m resorting to doing 10s and 11s just to fill vault but then you run into the same people who aren’t necessarily bad they are doing good numbers but they make maybe 2 mistakes the whole dungeon and that still depletes your key cause their screw ups suck the timer down 3 to 5 minutes and now I have to push my key back up back to 10 or 11 to bring it back in a farmable zone. If blizzard wants to truly improve mythic plus they need to remove depletes period so those of us who are stuck on farm cause we can’t find players good enough don’t get punished for simply trying to fill our group.
According to raider io there is roughly 2.3% of all toons with score are 2850 or higher. And how many people that are 2850 have multiple toons at that level. Blizzard has done NOTHING to help the average pug m+ experience. Its quite sad.
they actually have people are not realizing 12s are going to be easier then they are now the damage increase will be 2 % instead of 10% thats a huge nerf. once i got over 625 ilvl 10s and 11s are trivial. but 12's are such a big jump atm that they are genuinely hard. you only need like 3 or 4 12s timed to get 2850.
They have done a lot actually based on overall nerfs to dungeons and making the lower keys give more valorstones and crests. This one change is just as you say a "nothing change" for the average player, so why are you so upset when it legit is just nothing but a net positive since it doesn't effect the people you are talking about. Its just weird that wow is the only place where people feel every change has to be catered towards the casual players and people shouldnt be rewarded for playing the game more. They obviously shouldnt tune it around the top players but legit never being able to do any changes without being met with backlash from people it has nothing to do with is weird.
The no-deplete change is so tone-deaf. I'm astonished.
Most people that care about depletes are in the 6-10 range. Requiring an achievement for the functionality is stupid.
This change will have almost no impact, since it's specifically for +12s only.
Blizzard just refuses to take easy wins and will let the game die with their weird mindset and fear of being too lenient.
Exactly. It just helps the leets, which more often have a set group anyway
idk i think alot of people who have a 12 key are also very paranoid about it as well because they don't want to chance there key so they are going to gatekeep harder when depletes are present. if anything it will be incentive for people to push high on there main then be rewarded on there alts with no depletes.
Yea this is so friggin weird and points to their cluelessness.
@grummpz not true I've got all 11s timed and one 12 without a group this season and 12s will be even easier next season.
@ congrats but you will have done better than most who do pugs.
2850...... rating for no deplete is just a joke a this point, my god, stop saying that is a good thing, ppl in lower keys already having a hard time, is not a pug friendly thing to do
Reason is people who play dungeons at and above +12 literally get nothing from doing it besides the score if they succeed in pushing the key.
It's inefficient to run anything above +8-10 if you are just doing it for the rewards.
If people are depleting keys at low levels, they really should just try to get a little better or preferably find a group to play with.
well 12s are going to be easier so hopefully more people will be able to do them next season and it won't be as bad as it seems on paper.
I like having a new reward beyond 2500 KSH for those of us unlikely to earn title.
@Hekk. or just do more like 4s I'm still seeing it be a big jump from a 6 to 7 on my alts that death timer increase is a MFer.
@@zachemorgan If you aren't doing 7+ or 10+, there is no reason to do M+ at all.
If only M+ players could get dinars aswell... and also the possibility of getting the same Ilvl as mythic raid from high m+... Meanwhile they keep forcing M+ players to raid and the result is just people quitting
Would be a cool addition for the vault for when we have those dogwater weeks.
They need to make tanking and healing good to play... In my guild one main tank froze, the other switched to dps and the healers are burnt out...
Burnt out healer here....haven't touched WoW for months and was really excited for TWW.
Your guild is bad then cause healing is very easy if people don’t get hit by mechanics and use defensives. Tanking also is legit afk in a lot of raid fights very easy
@@artavian2459 let me guess, you're a dps at 2k rio
Edit: what does tanking in raid has anything to do in a video about m+? You're bat at context comprehension...
@ tanking in m+ is just as easy. Also I just said raid since you were talking about your guild. I heal i dps I tank the whole game is easy just a lot of bad players with ego, I sit at 2700io cause there’s no reason to do keys past 10s
Healing isn't "hard". The general pug population and the game systems suck. Just didn't feel like it this season with how little "fun" I was having.
The devs only cater to the ones who keep pushing and bitching that +15 is too easy, that's less than 1% of the playerbase. Now it's not even easy to join a +2 since everybody is a veteran and the entrance is so much higuer by making +2 equivalent to the old +10.
Before we used to have a "learning curve" to see which routes were feasible, use well your cds in packs and knowing how to properly heal or tank going from +2 to +10 and even properly gear through those keys since people used to get rewards from keys that weren't just currency, but Blizzard wanted to ramp up the difficulty, without any reasonable excuse to me, and making +2 to +7 a slog and from "challenger's peril" onward a true nightmare specially for new players. I tried to bring some friends back to WoW but they couldn't stand this, everything now is for veterans, long time players or straight up esport players or pros, or even people that waste a huge amount of time online.
Seriously I don't see a future of M+ huge engagement that we had in the past if Blizzard continues going this route, too bad Blizzard doesn't allow criticism or player/tester feedback.
They changed heroic to be equal to the old Mythic (level 0) and increased M+ to be about 10 levels higher. If you want to do slightly easier content than a +2 you could do heroic dungeons. And now you can just queue for the old M0 keys, which is a lot better than actively having to look for a group, and not being able to estimate when your key will begin.
They also introduced delves this expansions, which is much more targetted towards casual players. So i really dont understand why you think they only care about the ‘high-end’ players
@@thijsbrundel6102 Not really, because you are not addressing the content that people want to do and join like they used to, you are just saying that people that doesn't want to go full tryhard should be segregated do a different game mode, that's not how you solve a problem specially one that didn't exist before.
@@CsStoker you are still about to do the content you want to do and they are actually having people in the lower keys get more stone and crests now and they are constantly giving out basically free gear to these players. Why are they legit not allowed to have any changes for high end without people who dont do that content to be like "why are they getting good changes wahh". Cant they be allowed to work on the game for both of the players the +12 change is nothing but a positive because it does nothing for the casuals so they shouldnt worry about it and its a good thing for people who push past 12. Its not like that change is also taking away from extra time for the casuals either since the majority of the game is catered around them (as it should since that is majority of the player base). But that is basically saying you are upset that there is some positive PVP change happening when you dont PVP at all.
@@VaPoRPhantom I can say the same, why move the difficulty from +10 to +2? was so bad to push +24 and +25? what was the point of ramping up the difficulty? what was the point of making queues for +3 and +4 or at least 1 hour? what was the point of making lower keys easy to access to play and learn?
The learning curve was removed, that was a terrible change that isn't being addressed on these season 2 changes, specially with the awful picks of dungeons that they did.
@@CsStoker the key level change was strictly a good one for everyone since it required a lot less keys to get the same thing done, everyone know this not just high key players benefited. In fact the ones who were the average player benefitted the most from the change. There is still definitely a learning curve, i don't know what data you are using to make that up. The whole system in the for of keys is a learning curve by itself and nothing has so far been done to get rid of it. Also new players wont want to get into plus 12s, and if they do why shouldnt it be more difficult to get into higher content when that is how the game should work. If you want to push higher content then just get better at the game, there are many resources that is available for people to do that. What people dont understand is that not all content should be tailored towards legit everyone who plays the game. If people cant push 12s, its ok they dont have to noone is forcing them to. If they want to then they just have to use resources to get better at the game. People feel like they have to be able to access everything at all times when WoW is legit the only game where people are that entitled. It used to not be as bad because people realized how much they had to grind to get to the same level as some of the people who do just play only this game. They made it less of a grind for everyone and now people complain that they cant do the same content because they can see that its doable but dont want to put an effort into actually trying to do the content.
The Aug nerf without further tank and healer buff will just get even more players to move away from these roles
So u play +15 and above? If not, that is not a problem at all.
@@Painchiller While I am, I never said it was necessary at all level, but it is simply true that Aug made tanks and healers stronger at any key level. The question is not about them being mandatory, it's about making a role already in need feel weaker.
Ehh idk I got 2k rating before getting bored and only saw 1 evoker.
Are you sure they are trying to fix things? The achievement is a joke because it's not helping the players who need it and the tier token removal is 100% designed to squeeze more playtime out of players.... Things are not looking very positive. In fact these changes are very concerning.
“I’m Asian so I’m pretty good at math.” Omg I spit out of my drink. That was fantastic. Thank you for all the hard work Quazii!
😂 same
You're wrong about awards for the high end keys imo. The rewards should be in between 1000-2500 in order to get more people in the pool.
KSM and mount are not enough?
well between 1000 and 2650 you have: portals, mount, KSM. what more do you need in that range? once you're at 2650, you have all your portals and can spam 10s without much issue for vault. there's very little incentive to go higher than +10, despite +12 introducing a whole new affix. i think you just want to be given loads of free stuff for logging in, at least that's how it sounds
@@Painchiller No.
@@heathmcrigsby 🤣
@@heathmcrigsby All the rewards except "internet points" are in that range already lol.
There's a gap between 0,1% title and "just running 10s for the vault" that really could need some incentive.
Tuning is going to make or break it. Currently dungeons are overtuned. This must be changed and/or stops must be reverted to how they were before TWW. M+ is too much stress now, stop designing PVE for the top 1-5%.
Amen. There are so many of us that want something challenging but for it to be fun and not dread trying it. I think they made a mistake with the key squish. It took out the low m+ that so many learned in
When people repeat this dumb ass mantra about reverting the cc change, I always remember the azure vault first pull, where 5 ppl without comms either don't cc at all (why would you, it's a bl pull, right) or burn all their stops at the same time and die anyways.
There should be renown track and Dinars for M+. I ran Siege of Boralus 23+ times and I still don't have the trinket. It accomplished 2 things. I'm burned out and I hate Siege of Boralus.
You have my sympathies friend.
I have the same problem with grim batol and mists for those trinkets. And I need those for two alts. ._. I cannot stand especially mist any more. tred'nova and that stupid guessing game from 2nd. boss ._.
No depletes for the top 1% of players. It's nothing but a slap in the face to everyone else
blizzard is totally out of touch
It's not even that, it just won't drop below 12. Meaning, failed 14 will still drop to 13. It's just separating elites from peasantry, they are very insisting on reinforcing this line they already created with the difficulty switch from 11 to 12.
IF no depletes are given to lower keys, then there would be no player doing low keys, this will create bigger gap for new player to start pushing keys. 1-11 is your learning window, so you can pick and choose which difficulty you want to tackle and work your way up. you don't farm +12 for loot.
Preach brother!
@@hamakakun playing up to 11 is not learning ground, the learning ground was the squished levels that don't exist anymore and I haven't heard a single reason why. Saying that depletes are for newcomers to have someone to play with is peak irony even for a Blizz puppy. Newcomers were literally flipped off and told to play delves instead of m+. I don't even think depletes are big or even a problem at all, but I don't make up bs to defend it.
It's going to take weeks if not months for those dinars to even start and at that point most people stop playing the season, this does absolutely nothing for classes that heavily rely on specific trinkets or weapons
Notice specific trinkets and weapons only fall for the 1 percent, the 1 percent mainly the youtubers seem to have every biz trinket right off the bat. Only falls for us on champion.
I’ll be honest. I think s1 was so bad I’m not sure I’m interested in coming back
same
Same
I enjoyed playing overall. Only problem is with the amount of people constantly leaving keys i wasnt able too play as much as i was wanting too.
Thats what ruined the season for me.
I quit mythics in season 1 and have no plans to return especially on any of my tanks.
Same.
DF i was on every single day. I stopped tanking. I was 3200-3300 each season.
There should only be key depletion in the pushing range (beyond the maximum gear range from the vault). Players trying to gear up should not be punished, especially when someone leaves their key.
With depletion of the key:
The process of finding a group, running the dungeon, and then potentially not upgrading the key is already time-consuming. Adding to that, there's no guarantee that the key will be completed, which delays progression and access to higher gear from the +10 vault item. This issue is compounded when the same thing happens repeatedly, such as attempting a +10 key.
Additionally, the randomness of key assignments is frustrating-90% of my keys seem to be City of Threads for example. On top of that, despite all this effort, players only get to choose one item from the vault per week, which may not even be an upgrade.
This system feels overly punishing and demotivating for players trying to progress in Mythic+.
So if someone is trying to push higher keys - they are the ones who should get punished for failing those high keys? You think all the people running 10+ keys play with dedicated groups or something? Depleting +12 leaves you with a +11 key - the worst key to do, it's often better to lower it's level to +10 so at least people going after weekly will sign up.
If it's demotivating to people trying to gear up - you think it's not demotivating for people who want to push scores, and who have already proven that those sub +10 keys aren't difficult for them and who most likely get no rewards other than the possible score upgrade?
@@Hekk. its almost like there just shouldnt be any depletion of keys at any level, its fun for no one.
@@_Augie I understand why it's there, especially at lower levels. If you are failing low level dungeons, that means you simply need to get a little bit better. In my guild we have people who do grey raiding parses all the time who are still doing their +8s and weekly +10s without any hassle. Sorry to say, but if you are constantly depleting low keys - the problem isn't necessarily 'the toxic community'.
@@Hekk. Do the same people who carry your gray parsers through raid also carry them through their weekly 10s?
so those who have a score greater than 2850 probs dont have issues with keys depleting any way so WHO is this beneficial for? once again blizzard showing they have no clue what they are doing
Of course there are issues with depleting at that level, and any failed key hurts those people even more - especially if it drops from +12 to +11, or lower if they are unlucky when pugging.
If they were actually desperate, they wouldn't put in these half ass changes. They are absolutely tone deaf to the real issues. No cap, my friends list and guild have been empty for weeks now. We went from running keys everyday to no one online....the 12 wall affects MUCH less players numerically, than the 8-10 wall. They are out of touch, like most of the influencers on RUclips.
Hmm casual tears
The achievement should simply be "your key canno't deplete anymore for the season". 12 is when the keys begin to be interesting difficulty wise, and depletion just gatekeep people without huge game time. Being able to chain pull the first pull of SV without fear of depletion allow people to train, as if you were progressing a raid boss
doesnt work because you must still complete the key for it to not deplete
If you're doing 12's what are you training?
@@Damon970 what do you mean, have you not played season 1 at all? 12s have a huge spike in damage taken so for tanks and healers it's super important to know which CDs to use and where and you can only do that with spamming the same key over and over again
@@ArtIs2Eazy I said "your key canno't deplete anymore" nothing about finishing the key.
@@Damon970 every new routes, every new pull you need to do to in order to time high keys needs practice, and it sucks that the only way you can train is by trying, depleting, upgrading your key back to the key level you need, hoping you get the key you want, and have another shot
Must've been harsh end of the year for Blizzard.. New wow patch is a failure, diablo 4 is dead, overwatch is dead. The future of M+ is looking very grim considering all the existing issues and the dungeon rotation in upcoming season. While those changes are a step into the right direction, those are to me just bandages on wounds which won't heal for a long time.
We need elon to buy blizzard :)
You are overreacting so hard... You seriously think ow and diablo is dead? Youre delusional af
@@edens209idiot
@@wm1573 he is not wrong though haha
@@edens209 yikes
I just wish they would target the pug hell at +8. So many people aren't pushing higher and just spamming +8 and when it's your actual progress level it's impossible to get into groups because you're competing against 630 ilvl people wanting to faceroll content.
More rewards from high keys and maybe some diminishing return for spamming same level constantly.
They already did solve that…
@Dxnnysc doesn't seem like it :D seems like people still have way too much of an easy time to spam +8 while overgearing the content massively instead of pushing higher
blizzard again... more than 50000000 miles away from what the playerbase wants and needs.. holy shit. how can you be so clueless.
They still don’t solve the time problem spent in que… you don’t play the game you just wait for an invite …. Shit game
play healer or tank then
@ I play what I want not what you tell me that’s the hole point! More people with mentality like you less people will play the game…
Like I've said so many times before. The wow devs are blind monkeys who have no idea what they are doing. Nerf dungeon scaling, health and damage. Nerf raid damage and reduce the amount of mechanics the bosses do. THIS IS A CASUAL GAME, MAKE IT CASUAL AGAIN AND THE PLAYERS WILL COME BACK.
Isnt it funny how the correlation between their political choice and game dev choices are all terrible? Guess what political party they vote for lmaooo
@@dontworryaboutit4733 I'm sure it started with K and ended with an A
There is still no m+ class output tuning, class utility balancing, etc.
No problem for 99% of the playerbase.
@@Painchilleractually as a rogue i literally do nothing for the group so there’s no reason for people to invite me, also monks are useless those are two of the top of the head warriors useless too
"im asian so im pretty good at math" - Quazii.
Only streamers and youtubers do M+12 and up. The average joes do M+8-10 for gilded crests and weekly vault mythic track. I'm hyped for S2. Blizz is trying some positive changes and improvements but that +12 no deplete is stupid.
Man, there must be freakin much youtubers in my lfg tool
Weird, i casually play and hit 3k pugging.
Holy Priest lookin Sick AF next season
the depletion change pisses me off. They obviously realize depletion is an issue, but they still refuse to actually fix the issue for 99.9% of players. Even if you're above 2850 you need to be depleting low keys to benefit from the change, which is like the smallest minority the could've possibly targeted.
how does blizzard know that I bought a 6 month subscription?! This is crazy!
The only change I desperately want them to make is to reduce the myth track vault requirement down from a +10 to a +9.
Myth track in the vault not appearing until the same level you get portals is wild to me. This is even worse since portal runs are harder this season than previous seasons because of the tuning changes and the inclusion or fort and tyran at that +10s and above.
For a large chunk of the player base, a portal run is the highest dungeon challenge they will face all season so plenty of people listing 10 keys are not treating them as vault farming keys but are instead being needlessly selective so they can get their portal.
Pugging those was a disaster for a large part of the early season. and might even be annoying now, for those reasons and I was consistently getting more myth track vault slots from raid than mythic+ until I took a break.
Blizzard can just drop it to a +9 so there is a distinction between vault farming keys and portal runs. +9s are still more difficult than the +16s and +18s for s2 and s3 of DF respectively. They are still certainly far from trivial for the people who wouldn't get mythic gear otherwise so it's not like dropping it one level will suddenly see people who wouldn't normally get mythic gear fully kitted out in bis.
alot i mean alot of players odnt get 2850 rating anyone ever think of that ?
My problem with Dinar's is they only include raid items. I've done 54 Grim Batol's and still don't have Gale, I've done 23 Mists and haven't got changeling. In total I've done 77 runs in these 2 dungeons trying to hunt 2 trinkets and will end S1 without getting either of them. This is so incredibly frustrating.
What's your take on the prot warrior rage nerfs ? I'm quite worried as a prot war main
Blizzard looking at aug evoker: "You know what we need? We need tanking and healing to suck more."
The no=deplete needs work. If they changed it so that each achievement (1600, 2000, 2850) would unlock no depletes below a certain level it would be much better, but being punished for even trying to run keys is never a good feeling and has ran most of my friends out of LFG.
HM im 5/8 +12 and 2846 so I dunno, depletion seems like it doesn't achieve much to anyone. edit: I "lied", Im 2867 but anywas, still feel the same way. Fixes virtually nothing.
Because you aren't pushing keys, lol.
If you start doing +13-15s and by some unlucky streak deplete once, nevermind twice, you ltierally wasted hours.
Wait, does the rework of Xalatath's guile mean that +12 will have NO bargain affixes, but also no multiplicative scaling addition? Will this mean nominally that +12 would be easier than +11 if you weigh the regular key scaling factor of 1 keystone level against not having to do bargain mechanics?
i've always said you only need aug for +14 and up. i main dev evoker and i pugged 25-26s in DF although i was aware i was out of place, cause when i would play aug it was SO clear how much smoother it made runs +24 and up go. just made me want to play it even less because it felt so out of my control. if they remove blistering scales, or just go all the way and put it and maybe defy fate in the class tree, that would be absolutely amazing for dev and pres. if they're gonna live in aug's shadow forever (more so in m+, they are both fantastic for raid rn) then they need some real improvement. make it so those talents are harder to take for raid than m+ or something
I'm seeing the comments point this out already and even someone in your chat whilst you recorded this said. Making it so that the top 1-2% of players can't deplete their keys below a 12 unless they choose to doesn't fix M+ for the other 98%. It's kind of an irrelavent change as you mentioned.
No-one can say this nor explain this enough times, in my opinion. Tank and healers need buffs to mitigation, not through put. Blizzard don't need to make it so that raids are run with 3 healers and 15 dps to help M+, they just need to bump the general survivability of tanks by 5-10% and healers by 5%. That gets you over the threshold on how many mechanics make Prot Pallys randomly fall over, give BDKs a bit of a better time setting up a pull, Druids will be able to handle magic damage more, Brewmasters will still be on a ticking clock, and DHs won't be dragging the mob pack all over the dungeon. Also, healers will be able to focus more on healing and less on not dying themselves.
It's such a simple tune to impliment, but I think with the new tier set coming out they aren't going to make any changes to make the experience of learning how to tank or heal any easier.
That's what I think is important "Learning how to Tank and Heal" because right now, you'll get bullied out of a dungeon if you don't know what to do.
The problem with having the no deplete at +12 is that it's not relevant for those players, because they are already generally good enough to not deplete a the rate people stuck at sub 10s do.
The biggest problem with the ubiquity of aug evoker is only them can perform the supportive role on a 5 man group and then you only have 2 spots for DPS left. Being a DPS in this game is an eternal queue and battle against each other to try and seduce the few hot available people on tind.. i mean lfg.
What if it was a 6 man group instead of 5 ? Give support role to other couple classes? Break the divine trinity a bit by giving DPS more healing choices like Elder Scrolls ? M+ is only thing that keeps me playing, and boy is it boring 95% the time.
Also, give monks a channeling physical AMZ in the form of baseline Zen Meditation. Maybe a dev is reading? They aren't
First step is making tanking/healing less miserable. Just make them OP as fuck. Have a tank beat dps on the dmg meter when it pops cds, have healers be able to slam HP bars and have ways to deal dmg while they heal. It's not 2004, the majority of players want to do some damage, have Healers and tanks do some damage while being able to fill their roles WITH EASE
All I want from m+ is more gold! I'm poor in game cos I like m+
You can boost. Really easy to get into and easy gold.
I think I would appreciate if they would smooth out the lower level m+ keys. I would say it would probably work better if they just like smoothed out the progression in keys by a factor of like 10. So a plus 6 would be a 16 and then that gives far more smoothness to the curve. Then they could even move the gilded crests to like a +16
Blizzad cannot do anything when a 2.8k boosted player getts killd from simple mecaniks in 12-13 (blizz actually need to stop the boosting communitys)
As one of those middling players (3k past two seasons), I am excited for the addition of Keystone Legends.
Love that they are re-considering depletion, but its just not the right fix. Those trying to push 14s this does not help and they will still be in LFG for hours. Even having to run your own key 1 time to bring it up to a 14 to get score is an unrealistic time sink. The risk that the key will turn into a 14 that you've already done is too great a problem for it to be worth risking your time.
Wow. Didn't think they'd listen. This is great! Or at least a step in the right direction. I know a lot of the comments point to fact that this does nothing to help players in the 7-8 key range but you also have to consider the huge jump in difficulty from +11 to +12. Also, I'm not sure it would be right to completely eliminate depletes below a +10, because anything up to a +10 can affect the ilvl of your gear rewards.
So I'd lower the achievement to completing all +10s and I'd introduce a "deplete counter" for all keys below a +10. Something where you're given three strikes each week and your key doesn't start depleting until you've used those three strikes up.
Btw at 8:40 those are called "Scare Quotes" love all your tanks advice stuff!
Honestly i think AUG just need to be reworked into a tank Spec. We do not have a Mail wearer tank, and this could work rather well and even fit from a fantasy point of view.
What do i mean;
1. Black spell even now are defensive. Ebon might can still be a dmg buff just reduce it to a lower percent of the main stat of the evoker and add dmg reduction on the AUG only. Text can read the Evoker channels his inner black magic to augment his skin reducing dmg taken by 15% the magic overflows increasing the dmg of DPS player on the evoker party by 3% for 15 sec. Give it like a 30 sec cd. Main on use cd
2. They can change some of the bronze to be time magic. Example; Time paradox; The evoker strength his connection to Nozdurmo pausing time for 8 sec; Dmg taken during Paused Time is taken as a 4 sec dot as time speeds so fast the evoker only takes 70% of the dmg taken during the 8 sec. 1.5 min cd.
The main mechanic for them can be called temporal wounds. The way it can work is like this AUG Evoker accumulate wounds that create a healing absorb on them for 10% of the dmg taken (Wounds stack to 10) (internal cd of 5 sec). Casting Fire Breath Augments the evoker power causing a temporary connection to Alexztrasa that burns temporal wounds reducing its count by 3 and healing the evoker for x amount (play on the ability she has burning Deathwing tentacles.
Alternatively they can go the corruption route, and make the class heavy on Deathwing influence endurance at the cost of sanity kind of thing.
A lof the spell on their kit could be reworked to work around removing temporal wound and healing.
I dont know this is of the top of my head, but im pretty sure. It can work
Honestly support style character dont seem to work well with WOW holy trinity it seems. They could also go full dps with AUG
PS: Aug would stay Int base, so it would be a INT / Mail tank. Anyways thats my bad cook for the day.
If 12s don't deplete, after a few weeks, there will be very few +12 keys available for people who are just getting to that range. I don't think the change to depletes is a good idea. It takes the stakes out of the key. The keyholder can decide after a few pulls or the first boss that they don't like something and just quit the key.
What actually killed it is doing delves is way much more satisfying than m+ bs
Keeping the no deplete for 2000 rio or atleast 8-10 keys range will make people more interested in pushing. That's where there is a massive change in player skill and dungeon difficulty also! 2850 players now basically 3 chest an 12 to get a weekly key...
I hate this thing of non depleting a key when 2,850 is reached. It another non casual thing.
Anyway, why do casual players have to struggle with key depletion? Where doas it say: "you choose wrongly your pug group, you have to suffer!" or "if you want to train to improve, do it at lower level!". It's just plain stupid.
I already quit playing WOW. The community is superTOXIC and Blizzard only has themselves to blame.
Elaborate?
@Hekk. They play into it. Both "end game" systems play into the toxic behavior. M+ with the "timer" and death counter + penalties. In Mythic Raiding it's Toxic mega guilds who "gate keep" through the use of "parses". The "Server" structure on many clusters plays right into the "gate keeping" by only having 1 or 2 "Mythic" guilds on these clusters. Another way they play into it is by not releasing Mythic content in the "LFG" function until after the Race for World First.
@@uu2142 So, requirement to play well at high levels is what is toxic?
@Hekk. is scripting actually "playing well"?
@@uu2142 What scripting? XD
If you play well you will naturally get 90%+ parses.
The reason I dont want to push high keys are long que times. So I need to wait in ques more to fix the problem...
Its the worse than ever and no changes for 12+ is any use
Bro "Trust me. I'm asian and I'm pretty good at math" took me out 💀😂😂
Blizzard only caters to the elite group who can get to 12 keys, this does not surprise me. It's the little guys that pay your bills blizzard remember that. BTW trolls will troll the lower keys, because that for the trolls that is the only fun thing to do anymore is troll.
BTW I am not a troll, but so many of them like to troll my keys like so many of them. Now I see the trolls trolling on the island.
Augvoker may not buff tanks+healers next season but they get clutch back. This means dpspers will get bigger Ebon Mights.
People wanted depletes, to be gone, they pulled typical blizz move, gave basically useless "no-deplete" gaslight the community, same style like with gilded catch up until recent changes...
As a tank main I haven’t noticed much tank threat issue. More that some mechanics fucking clap me even with mitigation
I don't mind support in fact I think Blizz should lean into it with the tinker class and making a third spec for DH that is also support. That way groups bring a tank, healer 2 dps and a support class.
Lmao
how to fix M+:
1. reverse the changes to kicks
2. make the difficulty increase between key levels more gradual.
3. design the dungeons so that they trash packs have fewer mechanics and casters so that bigger pulls can be done again but also that you need to pull bigger or you won't time. Nobody in M+ likes this pulling one pack at a time BS.
4. Buff healers in general.
5. and of course, stop making mechanics the same color as the floor
They dont need to do all that fancy stuff, all they need to do is remove depletes and give more rewards after completing the dungeons that's it.
The only reality where I would be ok with the catalyst change.. if charges were every week so you didnt feel terrible catalyzing a veteran or champion piece.
i love that blizz will never give the customers 1 to 1 of what they ask for.
And that's correct, cause a big part of the Com is freakin stupid
I haven't played M+ since DF season 2, so it was still on the +20 system. In the current system, what combination of keys are required for KSM mount?
Get 2000 rating by timing four 7s and four 6s.
@SaltyKeldion thank you. Does it have to be 4 +7 fortified and tyrannical etc? Or any combination of 4 6s + 4 7s?
Blizz don't have much going for them at the minute, so they have to make WoW count.
M+ players when the hard-by-design difficulty scaling mode is hard 😱😮😧
If they're trying to save stuff maybe they should rethink the massive nerfs to prot warrior. I'm pissed about that.
What I am hearing is that Devastation evoker is now way better, because all the utility other than blistering scales on the tank is available to devastation.
everything is good and all but if they keep not giving a flying fuck about class balance after RtWF nothing will stick ....
If you can't get invited into keys on your class it is completely pointless
It’s real easy blizzard. Make it fun and people will play.
Stop holding onto crap design for the 1% no life masochists
The time spent on a failed key should be punishment enough. Time is money, friend
so you can start the key as shadow, go out spec into disc and provit from the buff again :D ?
The worst of the worst players are playing aug to stay under the radar of being disgustingly bad on a real dps class. Nerfing aug to the point no one brings them to m+ anymore would be the best change they have done in a while.
Purely a comment to agree with everyone else who can see the no deplete change is completely irrelevant to the overwhelming majority of players.
This change being painted as a real success story is laughable
Well this is laughable. But if they gather some balls and drop key depletion for ALL keys, im coming back in an instant.
Welcome back!
If everybody started to win would there even be drive to push keys? Take a deplete on the chin and keep it pushing
Why can't they give us Dinars instead of those bonus catalyst uses? It's ass that even when M+ is my main content i have to play raids, also m+ loot is so fucking bad right now, like Hero track items for everything, not even myth for +14 is crazy, you're stuck in hoping for weekly and even in weekly there's like no chance of getting your bis trinkets or other items when they come from raid
I quit as soon as I hit 2600. It’s extremely unfun to pug at any key level. I hope they make some positive changes fast.
They really dont understand gaming. Let us pick a keystone level we have completed and go just like rifts in diablo. Everything else is just there to purposefully waste your time.
I disagree with you on the catalyst. Only the sweaty neckbeards are getting AOTC or KSM out the gate. The rest of us get out full Tier Set well before we get either. You don't even have to raid or do M+ to get are Hero gear thanks to Delves.
"I'm Asian so I'm pretty good at math" made me lol.
I quit after dragon flight l, they still haven't balanced this M nonesence. This game relies on a social network that is full of mental illness, elitists. Wow, it is tanking, and overwatch is non-existent. This is the year Blizzard will see massive changes to their employment structure. 0 good IP, what's left of their company other than a shell of good times once had.
I will always remember, wow, from the peak starting from November 23, 2004.
This is great news for the top 1% and is a waste for the normal, common players.
id like a dinar to get the Soulletting Ruby in ToP. 150+ runs s2, 80+ runs s3 in SL. healthy?
don't know why the nerf aug seems stupid to me yeah it was nice to have one in dungeon but it was not needed only the sweatlords always wanted a auggy
So the deplete change isn't going to save anything for the vast majority of players I think they need to do way more.
They at the very least need to do something about depletes for other keystone levels I would prefer if they just removed them below 12 but if not since they seem against it they could have something where once you time 10 keys at a certain keystone level or higher you can no longer deplete below that level so after I've timed 10 8's or higher my key never drops below 8 unless I manually reduce it.
It precisely changes a lot for the majority of the playerbase.
@@Painchiller How does a change for players who do +12 keys and hit 2850 affect the majority of the player base ?
It just doesn't seem to matter to the powers to be. STOP the punishing timegating. STOP tank nerfs/busters that one shot. Find a way, dig deep and make healing ENJOYABLE to play ACROSS the board. IMHO, ALL tanks and ALL healers should be meta in M+. Start there just see what happens? And for the LOVE OF GOD STOP LISTENING TO THE 1%>>>They will play regardless
I do about anything to avoid running M+. I have never not gotten KSM but S1 TWW is just too horrible to run.
So still no myth track rewars on vault on +8 plus...... no buying dinars with tokens from the vault, can be 12 tokens from the vault 2 weeks worth, its punishing but would be a huge improve. So this is still a game for the streamers. Great blizzard really is going all out to save mythic plus.... I got to be honest but i almost puke when i hear quazzi just talking about making the game better for him at 2850 rating, blows my mind.... if he could play the game solo with dungeon folowers he would must likely love it since he only wants updates to keys +12 plus, i mean he is talking about +15/+16, that's all of fame thats literally 1% of a small group of people who plays mythic plus. Does quazzi wnats mythic plus to die? I don't get it, he was normally a man of the people, now he is a man of the 1% players.
The token to catalyst change is such a dogshit idea. What if I start late in the season and have like 4-5 catalyst charges already, whats the point of getting another charge then??
just dont make it so punishing like i make a party i accept almost everyone since u can run lvl 9/10 keys which is the highest i have gotten so far with 600 ilvl and then someone dies and all leave like idk
So they buff the damage output of the DPS and what about the tanks output ? I hope threat generation gets improved as I have a friend who plays Retri pally and I cannot hold agro when he opens with all cooldowns or they reduce the burst of other classes because if i have cooldowns running then it,s ok but on the pulls where i do not have cd,s he just rips agro.
They need to make crests account wide and make an Achievement "Experienced Protector" and Reward "Make crests account wide" so this would tempt more people into playing tanks , At the moment people do not want to play tanks or healers because there is no reward for it and you get a lot of s*** in pug groups who are quick to blame the tank or healer. There has to be more of a benefit to playing an important role ie.. tank or healer because without a good supply of those the LFG tool is bascailly dead.
There was a post about this, all tanks getting a 22% threat buff.