How I Static Balance a Surface Grinder Wheel Followup
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Due to questions by viewers, I try to answer some of the questions. About the surface grinder wheel balancing.
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More very useful info Randy - there is little doubt your attention to detail is invaluable.
Thank you Chris.
Hi Randy, for the balancing washers, perhaps consider a pair of solid brass slug slightly thinner than the hub flanges and 1/2" or so larger in diameter with the center relieved to accept the flange and nut; then, rather than drilling the wheel, you could drill/fill the brass. A further refinement would be to make each a poured lead slug backed by a brass or copper washer, which would allow a smaller profile for the same mass.
Thank you Chris for the great comment. I like you idea.
A very through balancing procedure. In the highly unlikely event of me getting a surface grinder I know where to come for help. Thanks for an excellent video.
Thank you Harold. Balancing bench grinder wheel is good to.
I was about to say just this. I have balanced my bench grinder wheel's using a similar procedure using a set of parallels made out of wood on my table saw, even balanced the wire wheel with a chunk of epoxy in the corner. Not even close as precise as the apparatus Randy uses. My father came by my shop the other day and I was using the old bench grinder. He commented on how smooth it was and it could barely be heard. I smiled.
Awesome Randy, never never boring. kindest regards joe
Thanks Joe.
Wow camera picture quality is great .
I have the same Anderson Balancer in my shop. Cool tool.
Thanks.
Hopefully I will get to use this information in the next year or so. I'm patiently waiting for a screaming deal for a surface grinder in my area. Chris
Thanks Chris.
nicely done. thanks for the follow up.
Thanks James, I have one more followup to the followup coming.
Thanks Randy I look forward to seeing the actual balancing.
Thank you Terry. Besure to catch the video on the 29th.
I will Randy. I have you set up on auto notification.
Perfect.
With the HD video it appears to me at least that the white wheel has a lot of chips missing from the edges and is also wobbling on the arbor. Use this device then dress the wheel or vice versa?? Could chase your tail all day with stuff like this it appears. I dont own a surface grinder so dont know the proper procedure but dressing 1st seems more logical...maybe I am way off base. Nice camera Randy 👍🏼
very cool , Great info , Enjoyed Randy !
Thank you Shawn.
Good exploration Randy, I am looking forward to your adjustable hubs. I enjoy the problem/solution stories and I know you will come up with an elegant solution, cheers, bro!
Thank you. Working on it.
Thanks for the video Randy. Are you going to do a video using the Silicon Carbide wheel in cast iron? I would love to see how well it works.
Steve
Yes, Steve, soon.
I think if you get right down to the absolute measurements even the spin of the earth effects the balance of a wheel let alone paper labels stuck on the sides. I first encountered this when shooting long range and dealing with the coriolis effect on bullets and their trajectory. I console myself by thinking about naval battleships shooting at each other from beyond the horizon while on the move, bobbing on the surface of the water. Now that is true marksmanship!
Very much so James. The folks in the Down Under really have a problem.
the good people from down under have the exact same issue but in the completely opposite direction.
Another fine demonstration of wheel balancing, Randy! However, I still do not know if it is worth it for me to go in this direction for improving the surface finish on my grinder. I have been doing my homework and I know there are multiple, many really, ways surface finish can be compromised. I guess what I really want is a judgement as to whether the balancing apparatus and time and effort and money invested in using it is worth it. All the time? Some of the time? Occasionally? I think I see an improvement sometimes? Before or after other issues are addressed? I am a geezer, surface grinder novice, hobby shop machinist, with a pretty nice but well used 70 year old B & S grinder, and I am not happy with the consistency of the surface finishes I am getting. Sometimes good, sometimes poor, with little apparent rhyme or reason. I know there are a lot of other factors that can influence surface finish. Wheel choice, use of coolants, condition of spindle, motor, ways, chuck mounting, feeds and table speed, and many more, with the elephant in the room being the newbie operator. What I mostly see that I would like to get rid of are faint, equally spaced bands across the width of the work, maybe wheel hop. Strangely, traverse speed, depth of cut, wheel dress, change of wheel, and other usual suspects do not seem to have a repeatable effect on the issue, but sometimes it goes away and I see a beautiful finish. I am not using coolant so far, but I do have a mister and Kool Mist I should hook up and try. Cutting oil, Crisco, and kerosene have not helped. Yes, wide open topic, I know...
Boy you hit the nail on the head. Thank you Bob for the great comment. Since my grinder is on a wood floor, I am just trying to eliminate everything I can under my control. And wheel balance is a very critical one. With imbalance you create a frequency as the wheel crosses the work and will create the pattern you suggest. Any type of vibration can great the pattern. I am currently getting a very good finish, probably the best to achieve unless I rebuild the spindle.
The outside diameter on the wheel is visibly not running true or seams as if it is not 90 degrees to the shaft? Thanks so much for taking the time with your videos the knowledge all you guys give freely is just wonderful. I am just a green horn with perhaps fresh eyes, if all the wheels you have set up are not running true it makes me think something else is out of wack. Shouldn't the wheel edge be dressed and all those chips removed before an accurate reading can be given and then balanced?
as always, learnt a lot. thanks randy!
Thank you Emma.
I gave a coat of paint at the moment the video started, the paint dried faster...!!! lol
Try to get manual focus, this is what I do lately and it helps a lot to keep the main area clear without hunting when you move.
The slightest detail will affect the finish, you're so very exact about it, even possible to make the difference between a single phase and a 3 phases motor... ;)
I'll also have to think about a variable device to balance the wheels easily, I'll keep watching your progress.
Keep on, Pierre
Thanks Pierre. I am trying out a setup right now, actually worked quite well.
Pierre's Garage - At least you had some entertainment while waiting to apply the second coat. LOL
OK you made me beak down and make a balancing jig which you will see on the 17th.... So sick of vibrations!
I am ready to see it.
Would cutting a long feeler gauge to length, not the tapered ones of course, then rolling it be a reasonable way to make a shim to reduce (eliminate?) the play between the wheel and arbor? They're pretty uniform and should let you make a fairly precise shim, especially if you can get away with just using one. After cutting the small end radius off, math alone should let you determine the exact length you'd need. With some kind of clamped right angle jig you could trim it with a dremel it get it right on the money. I want to be this precise but before I invest the effort I'd really want to try to prepare for as many irritating factors up front 😂😂
I haven't watched the next video yet so Im likely flapping my gums. I'll keep a look out for the info for your washer!
When you moved the nut you also changed the wobble of the washer. Every thing affects balance in a very low friction system. You do the best you can, because man can't make something perfect. I am sure Norton has "tolerances" in the balance of the wheels. Did you notice the small nick in the white wheel on the opposite edge from the camera between the 0900 and 1000 position. lol
Has your system been working for you, if so, keep grinding my friend.
All works, I have a few other ideas to share as soon as I get time.
Thanks for posting...
Thanks John.
That hub looks balanced, if it wasn't it would roll back and forth where it's out of balance with the heavy spot on the bottom. The fact that you see different points the hub stops at says it is balanced as it doesn't keep ending up in the same spot, and doesn't reverse back and forth. If it was out of balance it would end on the same spot each time.
I think the hubs are very will balanced. And having such a short lever arm there imbalance would be insignificant to the wheel.
Thanks for the comment.
Randy, was curious why you don't use the balancing adapters? I just got a surface grinder recently, and I got the power going, but need to finish clamps for my mag chuck. Unfortunately I only got 1 wheel adapter, and it's a sopko without balancing. I bought one other wheel adapter from HHIP that is balancing, made in Taiwan for $81. The Sopko balancing adapters are too expensive, like $250-$300. Even $81 is not cheap, but I think I'll get a few after I get my chuck mounted. I did get a balancer with my surface grinder, but it's not as nice as yours. :) Seems with the Sopko adapters that don't have the balancing, you drill holes in the wheel to balance it. I like your idea of the rotating tab, but the adapters with the 3 balancing blocks seem easier, for a few bucks more, albeit USA vs. Import.
Hi really enjoy your videos I’m new at this hobby I have a very small shop I just purchased a boyer Shultz surface grinder do you see any issues if I fabricate a frame and have it roll on wheels to be able to move it within my shop to work with it
I don't see a problem. have it on a concrete floor. Thanks.
Thanks Randy keep the videos coming maybe you can Taylor them for an old 70-year-old beginner be well
The static background noise is over 9000!Will the unbalanced wheel cause vibrations? Because i got el cheapo grande bench grinder that vibrates like crazy and wants to move to another country if it wasnt bolted to a table.That vibration will fuck up the bearings right? Can it cause overheat?
Like the idea with slightly bigger washers with weights.You could maybe make it thicker and then drill a blind hole and fill it with lead-then u can use a drill to remove small amounts of lead until you get a perfect balance.
Yes on the bearings. I like you idea of the big washers. I have also came up with a similar option and I am testing it out right now, video soon.
Thanks Randy. I generally agree with your conclusions this time. It seems to me that you've shown that the wheel composition is non-uniform. The geometric analysis about the effect of an oversized arbor hole still missed the point. I do have a suggestion to save you (and your viewers) some time in the balancing process: there is no need to give the wheel a big spin. This is not roulette. Simply rotate the wheel 90 degrees from the previous low point, let go, and observe what happens. Try it. Also, don't forget that balancing should be done after truing.
I would recommend that you mount the wheel and dress it on your grinder. Then balance. It's not going to run true out of the box. Give it a try. Balance out of the box, then dress and re balance.
In the first video that is what I mentioned. You must have the wheel concentric first then balance then re -dress. I agree 100%, Thank you Richard for the great comment.
It might be worthwhile to start with the major diameter of the wheel centered on the arbor. Then perhaps you'll replicate the wheel's concentricity to the manufacturer's shaft when the wheel was made/balanced. When they're extremely eccentric, take/send it back to where it came from like everybody else did before you.
Still watching Randy! Seems a little like you are moving in Keith Fenner's direction with the precision stuff.....go boy!
Thank you Danny.
What is static balancing? I didn't understood what took place here, seems like the wheel wasn't balanced...
You know that Sharpie mark has mass. Since Tom knows the thickness of a Sharpie mark, he should be able to tell you how much it weighs.(;
Yes I try to keep the marks to a min.
I have experimented with both roller type and rod/ knife edge type balancing stand. Personlly I found the roller type far not sensitive enough for a 7 inch wheel. Just my 2 cents
I made a few 1/8 thick brass disks that glue on the paper washer. Then it's a matter of drilling that brass washer
I tend to agree with you Simon on the sensitiviity of the knife edge type for smaller diameters. But you also have the inherent problem of how level you can get the knife edge type. Thank you for the great comment.
A typical 5 tenth/ft machinist level would be more than sufficient for that. The level I have is 10 in, I span it less for added sensitivity.
Downside for knife edge is also it's extreme sensitivity. It would take MINUTES for the wheel to stop
Maybe make the washer out of printed circuit board. It would be easy to apply solder, and braid to remove it.
How about 0.010 brass shim stock and apply solder. That is what I am trying right now, so far it is working out great.
So, you machined the end that identified the alloy. Without the markings the rest of the bar becomes mystery metal.
Yep John, and with my memory you are completely correct.
It would be interesting for you to test the balance and mark it like you did, then put it on the surface grinder and true it (dress it) with a diamond and then re test the balance Just to see what it does.
You should do that after dressing it ....It is evident out of round
After balancing a new wheel you should probably dress the wheel and re check the balance.
I found a cheap import wheel to vary in width and to have a definite heavy part of the wheel and the wheel wears faster on one side.
I bought a Oneway balancing system for my bench grinder.
www.amazon.com/Oneway-2272-Grinding-Balancing-System/dp/B007RPOE4E
Certainly a bench grinder is not as critical and a surface grinder.
Thanks for the vids
du grand n'importe quoi ,1° équilibré une meule qui ne tourne pas rond pas dressée ,2°la meule n'est pas serrée sur son mandrin .
Where do you buy quality hubs? I've seen $250 per hub from a few of the big name stores, for "Dynamically Balanced Precision Hubs" 🙄
I keep a decent inventory of 30+ wheels in my home shop, so $250 each is too unreasonable to even consider.
Check out Chucks idea, this may help. ruclips.net/video/pjPQAnTV4e4/видео.html