Woah! Vid responses oldschool youtube style! Firstly I'm pretty excited to have tumbled into a MCDM video: I think overall your read is right - I think I didn't communicate something well in my video and that's: **I really enjoyed Blades in the Dark and I think about it all the time.** I just had some friction when initially running it, because it's a roleplaying game and usually roleplaying games are complex (for different reasons) Also I've been repeatedly and convincingly informed: I'm wrong and Blades is setting neutral? I think I need to play another campaign of it. Wow though, this made my day!
BitD is not necessarily setting neutral - the book has an implied setting, just like 5e. Rather, the setting doesn't matter - the most popular BitD hack, "Scum and Villainy" is set in the Star Wars universe with its numbers filed off. The setting matters in BitD exactly as much as it matters in 5e, that is to say, not at all.
I don’t think Blades itself is setting neutral, it’s just that it is hackable to create new games in new settings without a ton of difficulty. See Scum and Villainy, Court of Swords, Band of Blades, etc. They’re all Forged in the Dark, like Apocalypse World, similar so that you can pick them up fairly easily but skinned to fit different themes and settings. I actually feel that the setting of the world of Blades is important to the game Blades.
I love this little network of Talented and interconnected nerds so in love with this game and nerd-dom in general Keep it up friends, love your work Zee
The playbooks have an implied setting. None of the core systems such as setting the level of position (aka risk) and effect (aka reward) and building D6 dice pool and keeping the single top result (or the resistance rolls or what have you), none of those have any implied setting beyond having a team of competent characters do heists/missions.
It's a weird thing about TTRPGS: technically, you can always swap out the setting it comes with for one of your own, but the rules as written always have things about the setting that are implied. For instance, Burning Wheel implies that humans are weak and fragile compared to monsters, elves are ancient, mysterious, and powerful, and dwarves are greedy. Blades in the Dark implies a world that has a rich, powerful "underworld" of criminal activity to the point that everyone is involved in some way. Shadows of the Demon Lord implies that the adventurers have a more real world outlook on how monsters are creepy and terrifying. So, when you swap out the setting it comes with, the new setting you put in should have the same default assumption and implications that the rules give you, or else you need to start hacking the rules to align with your setting more. And that's where we come to the often crux of the issue with other games and people telling you to play them instead: when you start hacking the rules, the more you hack them, the more work you do and the less like the original system it becomes. At some point, you cross a line where people looking at it wonder why you are hacking a system rather than just starting with a system that they think is closer to what they think you want based on your hacks. Or because they found a system that they love and demand that everyone else love it too.
@@mirthfulArtist "You've been listening to DnD propaganda again haven't you? Of course they're gonna say we're the baddies!" "Yeah but DND doesn't get to design our _dice_ "
Barbarian: we just slaughtered entire village of cultists. Investigation checks pass wizard Wizard: (investigating a diary)actually they're old volunteer to be cannibalized at the end of there lives. Barbarian: are we the baddies?
It's a shame he can't do like he did in the past, with all the movie clips. Understandable, but still a shame. Overall his videos are better put together and deliver more concentrated amounts of ideas, there was a major charm to the rougher, more "stream of consciousness" style from the before time.
@@voland6846 I'm genuinely curious, what sort of assumptions do you think DnD comes with? I think it would help me immensely, as a DM, to understand what sort of assumptions DnD has so that I can teach newer players accordingly. I've only ever ran DnD and I've practically glued a pair of "DnD goggles" to my eyes, so I have a hard time viewing DnD from an outsiders perspective
@@MarshaIIs Okay this is a very quick "top of my head" list: The Gods are present and active and can grant powers to mortals. There is magic that can be learned by anyone with enough work and intelligence. There are other-wordly patrons (who are *not* gods) who can grant powers through contracts & deals. There is also "natural" magic present in the physical world. There are biologically distinct physical races. Some of those races can (for some reason?) interbreed, while others can't.
There's also the system-not-setting assumptions like "Most problems can be solved by violence" and "A life of killing and plundering doesn't have any appreciable effects on the protagonists other than making them better at killing and pillaging" but I don't think that's what you were asking about.
So this dice system was actually created by jay little who was my professor for a game design class. Now I get to see my favorite dnd channel talk about the system my favorite teacher made. This is awesome!
As a GM who ran 1st,x 2nd, and 5th editions of Shadowrun - I will say it. I love the world and lore, I tolerated the tangled mess that was the rules. Though it did work well for ranged combat everything else was rather ad hoc.
@@reksevrin Yeah, played 5th and looked into 6th...but playing rigger was a NIGHTMARE. The rule A you needed to interpret rule B would be in an entirely different chapter with no page number reference, then rule C would refer to page X...which is in a story, not part of the actual rules text, and rigger 5.0 would have rules that supersede the core, but offer no replacement or conversion for a useful table that was in core, and then there would be situations where they mention drones and RCC could run decker programs but without listing any of the stats they’re based on, and then the index would be wrong, and then you decide to play street sam.
My brothers and I got so fed up with SR5 and SR6’s BS that we’ve been slowly homebrewing a more streamlined system over the past couple years, but not nearly ready for the light of day yet.
This is actually one of Hegel's points. When a person makes an argument and you say you agree, it is unclear whether you agree with the premises, conclusion, or both.
@@amoghkulkarni2239 I swear I took my Phil final 3 weeks ago and all of a sudden I'm surrounded by philosophers. Also, I agree with Schopenhauer in one point - Hegel sucks.
We need more of this positive community engagement between RUclipsrs. I still remember the friendly back and forth with Dr. Viking Cowboy. Great video Matt! Great video Zee! Thank you both.
I play the FFG Star Wars RPG, and can attest to how awesome the narrative dice can be. It is much more interesting IMO than D&D's pass/fail system, but it does force you to be more creatively flexible in DMing. Both are good and it's nice to have both. Remember that having options is a good thing in gaming and in life.
I have run a campaign in that system with my friends. The narrative dice system works really well for the Star Wars setting. It keeps the pace going very fast and forces everyone at the table to inhabit their character and interpret dice results into a progressing scene.
I've been running games for my group for every week going on over 3 years and the 12 session game we had in Star Wars Force and Destiny was probably the most epic game we ran. The power scaling was awesome, players loved the dice after session 1 awkwardness which is always to be expected. But I made 2 people who weren't even fans of the movies fall in love with content. Can't recommend it enough.
@@mirthfulArtist It's pretty much as described by Matt, so it just takes a little while to get the hang of it. What slows down play is that what you're rolling can have specific meanings depending on what you're rolling for (from giving a bonus or penalty to your next roll in combat, to skill specific things like shortening journey lengths when using the Astrogation skill). My group came from D&D to it, and I think we were too rigid in our need for rules. It took a while to just let go and not look too hard at what the dice rolls technically can do, and just try and think of it as cool film moments that we want to pull off.
You're spot on in why I love Genesys. You get this fabric of results rather than just target, miss, target, hit, target, miss. Genesys is also setting agnostic, so it doesn't suffer from the problem of the setting being inextricably tied to the rules.
yes~ that's exactly why i love genesys so much! i had such a specific setting i wanted to create and i just couldn't find an appropriate system for it. Genesys was honestly just perfect for it and im so happy i discovered it, really changed the way i experienced rpgs in general!
I have the base source book for Genesys, the dice and the GM Screen, but I've never been comfortable with running it because I never got a proper feel for how combat would work, or the dice pool system. Do you have any recommendations as to resources I could check out to get a better hang of it? I'd love to use it more (and by that I mean at least once!)
@@VegaraMu check Runeslinger's videos. Yes, they are Star Wars vids, but they will very much give you a ton of great ideas for basically the same system.
@@VegaraMu If you're anything like me (I can't just learn by reading the rules, have to learn by example), then actual play shows are the way to go. I HIGHLY recommend the podcast "Campaign: Skyjacks"! Or any of the other actual-play shows on the OneShot podcast network: oneshotpodcast.com/actual-play/campaign/ (but Skyjacks is my fave). There's a lot of action in episodes 5, 6, & 7 (each roughly an hour, so about one session's worth of adventure) with the real blow-by-blow combat happening in episode 7. I think listening to just a handful of Campaign: Skyjacks episodes, plus a small handful of Campaign: the Mynock episodes (that one's in the Star Wars setting) would be a really solid demonstration of the narrative dice, including different settings and GM styles. :D
I agree with the core concept of the video. There are several settings I recommend to people but add in the caveat, "You'll want to use a different game system though." Shadowrun immediately comes to mind on that, but there are others as well. Then there are game systems that I love but can not stand the setting. I'm looking at you, Storyteller System. People get annoyed with me when I tell them these things, but I want people to have the best overall gaming experience they can have.
No you are absolutely right about the storyteller system, I love the storyteller system, the setting of world of darkness I can take or leave in a heartbeat.
I love the Shadowrun setting, but the rules felt too extreme to me. Too much incomprehensible crap in the anniversary edition, not enough stuff (why should we bother?) in Anarchy.
I love playing D&d as a player, but running it as a GM just takes too much planning for me. I am really bad at balancing combat, because often I am more interested in the character drama than an engaging encounter. I struggled with this for a while, I felt like I wanted to weave a story with my friends but I was weighed down by a 3 hour combat, and carry weight, and movement speeds. For anyone whose felt similar frustration, I would highly recommend Powered By The Apocalypse games. Apocalypse World, The Sprawl, Dungeon World, Masks are all very rules light. The settings are basically just genre, they provide almost no pre-made content, except for a few example enemies so homebrew is a must, which is what I love. Play just moves fluidly from scene to scene feeling more like a movie or show than a tactical combat. The mechanics are hard to get used to at first, the GM never rolls dice and many rolls resolve whole scenes. The main draw for me is that most of the rolls in the game only occur when something narratively dramatic is taking place. When a roll hits or misses, the outcome determines whether the player or the GM has narrative control. This creates a fun push and pull, but does require a lot of trust and understanding that everyone at the table is working to create a story. These games really opened up my eyes to what rules light games have to offer.
I've not played with the dice system matt's talking about in this video but it sounds like a more crunchy version of pbta rolls (or rather maybe pbta is less crunchy version of this). I love the "succeed with consequences" of DW, and it's also very fast!
I love Dungeon World. Sadly, it didn't take off with my players. From a GM prep side, I love Cypher System. Enemies and challenges use a unified and simple system that means I never have to look at a stat block again. Though I've eventually run into problems with giving meaningful (permanent) magical loot. It turns out when you take away a lot of the unnecessary excess of D&D, there are a lot less levers to pull to reward gamers. But yeah, great suggestions, I just thought I'd leave another one here that I believe fits your point.
I recently got into PBTA by running Masks without ever seeing it before, and it was such an incredible experience of just how dynamic everything is, including battles. It was less of me weaving the narrative and the next steps, and more of me asking back the players' questions, and us weaving the narrative together. I absolutely agree that you need a group that understands what the system wants from you, and thankfully I had just that.
Experimented with PbtA and FATE. Eventually settled on Cypher as the system for our group. The sort of narrative focus and encouraging player input of those systems, but more mechanically tight and defined was much easier for my players. Cypher works for players who need some crunch to ground themselves. PbtA and FATE worked great with groups who can mostlt improv and wing everything, but just need an occasional resolution mechanic.
Apocalypse World actually sprang to mind when Matt was talking about other systems. I love PbtA games, but I run D&D 5e more than anything. I usually toss out anything that doesn't enhance the style of game I play, which usually means travel rules, tracking small inventory (rations, ammo, pocket change), and similar small details. I prefer narrative games, so the enjoyment doesn't come from tracking things like that. Playing something like a West Marches campaign, I'd definitely be leaning into encumberance, travel, and exhaustion. (I also run combat with Health pools for most enemies, so maybe I'm just lazy)
Very interesting to hear someone got caught up in Blades lore instead of the system, given there are now dozens of spinoff games that have repurposed the Blades core rules for other settings and genres
You need the settings that these hacks come with though, because the basic rules don't balance wizards and fighters for example - so you need in setting balance (otherwise who would be a fighter when you can be a battle mage?).
@@chromeego7903 I really don't see balance between 'classes' as a thing in a game like BitD/PbtA that is narrative first.. at least it shouldn't be if it's ran well. Balance in these games comes in the amount of spotlight the characters get and if the player is happy with it. And while you can argue that's true of D&D as well, the focus of combat effectiveness in the mechanics ensures that that spotlight can be stolen away through system mastery as easily as someone just trying to chew up scenery
@@DaveBozarth Balance isn't a thing in BitD because there is stuff in the premise that flattens an amazing skill that would otherwise be a 'no brainer' take on character creation. For example the ability to control demons would be devastating if unconstrained by the dire consequences of the world setting. Danilo Furtado had the idea of Flashbacks costing a % of hitpoints. The thing is porting these good ideas over might come with consequences that go unnoticed. 10% of a fighters hitpoints is less of a hit then 10% of a wizards hitpoints, so your fighter might end up coming up with all the planning flashbacks- this seems 'wrong' (not wrong but kind of not what you would expect). So you might come out of that game thinking 'that Flashback mechanic isn't very good &I don't think I will bother playing BitD' - which would be a shame. My point is that porting mechanics from other games has hidden consequences. The designer chose those mechanics that often have roots or 'balancing' in the setting. Also: any game 'ran well' will be by definition enjoyable so that isn't really a point. Try My Little Pony 'run well' and you will have a mind blowing time.
I think you've kind of hit on the best reason to play "other games" regardless of what your favorite game is. If you only play one system, when you decide you want to play/run something that doesn't work great with the system, if you have to rely solely on internet advice you'll probably have a hard time since the internet is unlikely to really know what you're aiming for. On the other hand, if you've played a bunch of different games you have a much easier time evaluating if one of them can be a suitable tool for running your crazy idea. One shots and mini-campaigns can also help bring to light the areas where your favorite system shines. There are pros and cons to every game, but ultimately and RPG's mechanics are just tools. Knowing which tool is right for the job is a great skill to have, but you'll only really get it by trying a bunch of different games. Finally, take every internet suggestion with a grain of salt. I may like game X because it really helps me run/play the kind of game I like, but that doesn't necessitate that the game you want to run would be best served with my favorite system.
Warhammer's dice system was a really good choice for an example of just how different this stuff can get and how much that can affect not only the mechanics, but the narrative as well. It's so weird and alien that you largely can't tell what's going on unless you have a translation somewhere, but once you understand it, it's actually pretty simple.
Blades in the dark lore can mostly be safely ignored much like the forgotten realms lore for DnD. Dont be intimidated by it! Before seeing Zee's and Colville's videos on it i wouldn't have even remarked on the lore as being a super central thing to the game.
This could not be more true, I ran a game of blades for nearly two years, probably my most successful campaign ever, and the first time I ever heard about the names of the hours was from Zee's video
The big lore pieces that are tied to the mechanics are ghosts. Lightning walls keeping people in the city and faction lore so you can run the faction game. There are a ton of options there so I can see why someone would think the lore is overwhelming. Especially if you read it and think that you're doing the game a disservice by not using the lore and everything accompanying it. Zee went further than I did by reading cover to cover and even with my reading I found Myself a bit overwhelmed with how much information the book provides for the large number of factions, ghosts, demons, vampires and other things like that as well as how they interact. It's true you don't need that much to get started. Even a faction game (2-3 competing factions in one district with the ability to add more later) can begin simply. These are just some ramblings about my experience so far. I have run the game before for a short stint and am planning on running the game again in a west marches style. I'm very excited to try it out again.
I think this is true but also not, in that Blades to me is intimately tied to the setting. But the system itself can be skinned to create new games using the same mechanics to fit whatever sort of game you’re trying to play.
@@Aud_the_Odd Fully agree with your comment. Blades is tied to the setting, but nothing stops one from stripping it down. Tbh, that's how I run my D&D games in the Forgotten Realms 😂
I don't think that's completely true though, in regards to the forgotten realms lore. Like in order for a wizard in stock 5e to work, you need to include the stock spell lists, which makes several implications about characters and setting that aren't necessarily true in your campaign. You could design a completely new spell list, but then you're building a completely new homebrew class to balance, which is it's own separate problem. Another example, including Elves, Dwarves, Halftlings, and then Half-Orcs but no full Orcs as playable races sends a pretty clear (and somewhat troubling) message to players, in addition to making assumptions about your setting, which isn't even to get into how those racial traits imply very narrow characterization of those races that might not be true for you.
Always upvote Genesys, it’s my most used system by far. So pleasantly surprised by it getting attention in this video. Genesys is also very easy to make home brew for. As long as the setting or play style isn’t simulationist, it’ll work perfectly.
Dungeon Crawl Classics is my first or second favorite RPG that I have ever played. Rules for actual play are rather simple, but there is a lot of depth with gods and patrons and magic. Funnels are amazing and the philosophy it has is sorta exactly what I like. The annual and Lankhmar are amazing additions to it as well
I run DCC currently and love it. I've been considering making the funnels come with a premade cadre of jobs which collectively are a community. Citizens of a farming village, pioneers, the neighborhood of a city, etc. Then have the players roll on the community chart for their level 0 characters, and determine some basic relations between the PCs
My GOD i love DCC, when I first got it I was marveling at how chaotic the game is. I realize that the obscene amounts of tables and crunchiness can turn people off from it, but as someone who had been playing 5e for so long at that point, it was a breath of fresh air.
@@eternalpoliwhirl I view it as some sort of impossible middle ground between rather rules light and extra crunchy. Just so happens to have crunch where I like and none where I dont
@@johnnygreenface totally, like it doesn't have a skill system which I really like, but also there's like four pages of rules on how to generate a magic sword. And its priest class is exactly what I like about clerics in rpgs
I've recently become infatuated with the Dungeon Crawl Classics system, as it is inspired by D&D's appendix N, but is rules light and fun over lots of mechanics. The whole game is truly made on good ttrpg philosophy, giving players and the DM much more liberty without the rules. Making monsters and magic items is so fast, simple and fun; wizard magic is wild and chaotic whereas cleric's relationship with their God is core to their class; the theif and warrior are simple but reward creativity in combat much more than their 5e counter parts AND homebrew is so easy and fun (and pretty much assumed) do to the game's design. Going to really have a blast with this game :3
I came here to endorse Dungeon Crawl Classics as well. Absolutely fantastic game system! Rolling for everything is super fun and the story builds itself along with how the rolls go.
I’ve had some of the most fun sessions I’ve ever GMd in DCC. Fun is designed into the game, I think it’s impossible to play that game without leaving the table with a few crazy stories
I love when a game's systems are designed to be inseperable from the reality of the setting, it's one of the big reasons that Vampire: The Masquerade clicked with me so strongly coming off of D&D. Everything mechanical in that game is tied to some fact aboit existing in that world or is there to reinforce the thematic elements, and I find that super cool.
It's funny that you say 'coming off D&D' because as someone who plays a lot of different TTRPGs I feel like there is a *tremendous* amount of D&D that is inseparable from certain setting elements you basically have to have in your setting or ignore/change bits of D&D. D&D as a ruleset doesn't care what the place is called or if the background is grass or sand, but it cares an awful lot about a lot of what's in the setting background.
@@Silkspar Theyre linked. The type of world were that is possible is radically different than onewhere it isnt. Another obvious example is the classes.
How to run a pre-planned heist in any system: have players make rolls for how they are helping the preplanning process. Each success adds a metacurrency (bennies, hero points) to a pool that the heroes can draw on during the event. Spending a point from the pool either grants them a reroll or adds a vital tool to their inventory.
L5R RPG from FFG uses a similar dice system, Successes, 'Opportunities' instead of 'Boon'. It really fleshes out the dynamics of Samurai battle and works well with the different mechanics for Investigation, Dueling and Massed Battles. You may be blocked while striking, but in that moment capture a glimpse into the opponents Loyalties or Desires. Like i said, fits and fills out the Samurai theme so well.
Underrated video. I feel like this should be required watching for novice worldbuilders! Be us authors, game masters, screenwriters... This is almost "Storyworlds 101" for me.
Genesys is amazing. The dice add SO MUCH to the storytelling. They also make the plauers take an active role in telling the story. They aren't just relying on the DM to tell them everything that's going on. It really makes things so much more interesting, fun and surprising.
I really enjoyed the amazing engine system that tsr put out back in the day. Specifically the bughunters game, which was such a great tool for telling gritty space Marines style games.
For a little while now I've believed that you look at what the game simulates to see what is important to that game. I now have to add "how it simulates it" to that statement thanks to this video.
I've been running Edge of the Empire for my players for a few months now and they have really warmed up to the system. Letting them drive the narrative with their rolls has lead to some amazing games. I highly recommend it!
Am I the only one loving this little Inception game of uploading gaming videos about other gamers' uploaded gaming videos about other games? So meta. Your move, Zee.
This is such a perfectly timed video for me. I have been working on my own system (mainly for my own fun) which initially had a specific setting but the more I worked on it, the more I realised it’s better without a specific setting, this has really cemented that. I’m also using a d6 dice pool system so this gives me some interesting thoughts. Thanks so much.
Right now I've been playing in a game of rogue trader for about 8 months when before then I only played dnd. Rogue Trader takes place in the. Warhammer 40k universe, wich is immensely hostile "in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium there is only war". In rogue trader you are part of a rogue traders retinue. A rogue trader is a special type of noble whose entire purpose is explore beyond the borders of the imperium of man and rediscover lost technologies to aid the imperium in thier conquest of the stars, along with scouting ahead of the imperium war fleets. You are out in the fringes with maybe a small fleet of ships and no one is coming to aid you and you have no idea what's in the next sector or star system. It could be a pirate den, there could be a fleet of choas space marines, fleets of horrific Xenos like the Slauth/maggot men or even still active men of iron Ala Super Terminator AI. But rogue traders are also somewhat above the law so they are allowed to have xenos in thier retinue as long as they stay outside the imperium. So you can play an eldar corsair, or an ork freeboota, or even a tau. But the imperium of man is fanatic Xenophobes, "suffer not the xeno the live" is universal in the imperium so of you play a xeno you have to deal with xenophobia from the crew and that's just part of the game. But that's the charm of it, you are out in the fringes with limited resources so beggers can't be choosers and you need all the help you can get. It's very interesting and very sandboxy with alot of interesting mechanics and overall a very positive experience despite being a very different game in a very different universe.
There’s also a few other dark heresy, where you play the cronies of an inquisitor Only War, you’re an imperial guardsmen. If you don’t know what that is, you’ve got a snowball’s chance in hell of living. Deathwatch, you play as space marines which are the setting’s super soldiers Dark crusade, you play as chaos.
I love Rogue Trader; ran a few games of it over the years. Being the Warhammer 40k version of Star Trek's Enterprise, riding that boundary between imperial space and the wild stars beyond, was one of my favourite ways to engage with the setting. It was a breath of fresh air next to tabletop. I like Space Marines, but they're so damn popular it leaves the rest of the universe struggling for room to breathe.
Rogue Trader can be an amazing way to approach a hex-crawl/point-crawl sandbox. I only got to play a few sessions of it, but it was used as a conlusion to a long-running dark heresy game with set narrative to pursue, and the storyteller didn't let us engage with it as a sandbox.
Can I just say that this video had what I wanted in the "Other games you should try" video. An exited story about the fun you had. Amy felt like she was just reading press copy. I know she wrote it, but it was just a description of the game and setting. (I know she made a statement about diving into darker subjects than normal, but again, that isn't a specific story, and there wasn't that moment of "This was so cool!" that sells people on a game.).
I know it entirely misses the point of "play the right game" that's been a focus recently, but this really really feels like what the plan was supposed to be with dnd 4e skill challenges. I wonder if skill challenges could be improved by having story dice along with the roll rather than advantage/disadvantage and other dnd-focused processes?
Your explanation of the system differences with the dice in the story type sense is brilliant. I hadn't thought of what you get FROM the dice in play style rather than that just being those mechanics. 1st class video, possibly one of the best in a philosophical sense.
When running edge of the empire i had a hard time constantly coming up with side-effects for the equivalents of banes and boons. I should give that game another go...
I also came across this problem when I was running it especially for longer campaigns. The trick I learned was simply, don't make a big story event out of every side effect. Just simply give a player strain as they over exert themselves performing some action, and like wise for good side effects just do the opposite, you get a rush of energy and endorphins, remove some strain. Then you can save you cooler effects for the bigger moments. Oh you made the shot but it left you open to an enemy attack, oh you made the jump but you dropped your coin purse, oh you killed the enemy and they fell on a stack of crates that fall on the other enemies slowing them down and opening them up to attacks. I hope this helps you.
Currently running a game myself, I love the system and the dice but sometimes I do struggle when I'm dealing with 6 boons and 4 banes in a singular roll. I have subscribed to the thought of sometimes there just isn't anything you can do, just spend a few of each and let the rest slide.
@@jackthejedi6540 Are you playing the Edge of the Empire iteration like Zeedar in the above comment or are you playing the Warhammer version that Matt demonstrated in the video? I've never played the Warhammer version, so I'm not sure if it is 100% identical or not. In the Star Wars/Genesys version Boons are called Advantages, Banes are called Disadvantages or Threats. Within a single roll Advantages and Threats cancel each other out and your result is interpreted from whatever dice remain after the cancellation. So, in your example with 6 Advantages and 4 Threat your result would only include 2 Advantages.
"If that sounds like it would be tedious for you, then that is probably not your kind of game." You hit the nail on the head Matt. I read these rules in the Star Wars game was went "Oh hell no!" and sold the book. I envisioned the game slowing to a crawl while my players constantly asked about what dice to use, or tried to bargain for the good dice, and then had to ask what the symbols meant after every single roll. Not to mention everyone having to spend money on something they already have tons of - dice. Give me 15+6=21 and done! And that is why we have different games, to satisfy people with different tastes.
Yeah, I don't think this dice pool system is for me. The good thing about the D20 system is that it's fast and flexible, you either succeed in a cool way or fail in a cool way at a specific task. This lets players make multiple choices in each encounter and it lets the DM build the sense of success or the threat of failure with each roll. With the dice pool, you kind of build in all the inputs and then just roll for the result of a fight or an encounter. It wouldn't make sense to build the pool and roll for each minor action. My goal in every session is to maximize player agency and minimize rules parsing. The dice pool seems like it would tend to stymie player and DM agency.
Matt, thanks for another great video! Our gateway to TTRPG was then newly published Fantasy Flight Star Wars (Edge of the Empire to be exact) game. After some research I realized that their starting sets were second to none when it comes to introducing new players into the hobby. And that proved to be very very true for us. The Star Wars setting was a huge selling point for my players. But it was the system and the dice that truly made it shine. It is extremely intuitive and dials storytelling and improvisation to 11. I am so happy that we've started playing using narrative dice. When we started our second campaign using D&D 5E we all very much loved how the system is streamlined and easy, but we had no problem continuing to narrate all die rolls just as we did in FFG SW system. We have a great campaign in 5E, but everyone in the group would love to dive back in our old SW game for a one shot or a small follow-up adventure at some point. For the story and characters mostly, but also for the system and those dice.
This made me miss 3rd Edition! I'm a huge WFRP Fan, I do love the setting, but I really enjoy the brutality of the game. I like a system that doesn't get in the way of the actual game, I don't want to be stopping every 5 minutes checking rules.
I love the magic system in Low Fantasy Gaming, as you cast spells they are more likely to have Dark and Dangerous Magic effects. It keeps the magic from taking over the game and ensures the players think things through before they cast spell.
It's always so good to watch this videos because they reaffirm ideas and thoughts I have, but I'm never sure on them. Seeing you basically taking stuff from my head and saying them in a coherent and well explained way makes me very safe.
Hi Matt. I love this way of explaining a game. I like the lady you had on before but it felt like a sales pitch. This video feels like a person passionate about a game and why it's cool. Maybe it's your style of presenting, IDK. This is why, I think, people are so drawn to your channel. Thank you for actually making a difference in the gaming community.
I hang out on a Discord server where we seem to have a unique blend of people with backgrounds in different styles of play. Over the past year, we’ve had a lot of practice talking about completely different games and styles and communicating what we like about them. I’m glad to see you are making an effort to improve communication about RPGs!
Having watched 70 sessions of Chaosium's King Arthur Pendragon on Eric Vulgaris's channel, I can say that the mechanics do a nearly perfect job in emulating the Arthurian legends.
Hey matt, I'm sure my story isn't a new one but i just wanted to say thank you. I had been trying to get into dnd for a long time, but there really weren't any dm's or players for that matter where I live. I had been overwhelmed by the concept of trying to dm since i had never even played in a dnd session before. But then i came upon your videos and while i didn't use your starting dungeon it gave me the kick in the butt i needed. I'm now fumbling my way as a dm with a group of friends who are all new to dnd. We're going into our 3rd adventure, our 5th month consecutive of play and already some of my friends have started to give me a bit more on their characters backstory where it is now the main focus of their next adventure. I can't thank you enough and the rest of the community here for the resources and neat insights into being a dm.
I recently started GMing Fantasy Flight's Edge of the Empire, and I really love it. Skill checks are so much more interesting than RAW 5e. It fits in to my style a bit better than 5e I think, though I still love DnD. I highly recommend FFG swrpg!
@@mirthfulArtist your question doesn't really make sense to me. 5e is fundamentally a d20 system, everything you do in that game stems from the d20. If you replace the d20 with the dice pool it is now a different system. If you mean could you run the FFG dice system in a fantasy setting ala forgotten realms, absolutely you could. It would take some finagling, but it's possible.
@@trombonegamer14 I meant do you think ffg style skill challenges could be implemented into 5e, with the dice pool reflecting proficiencies, ability mods, help actions, etc.
@@mirthfulArtist so you're saying, I call for an athletics check in dnd, and instead of rolling a d20 you pick up a series of ability and challenge dice? Because I would no longer call that 5e, the core rule of the game has changed. It would affect everything
@@trombonegamer14 Oh sorry, I meant Skill *Challenges,* like the ones in 4e that were never really carried over to 5e. I didn't realize you said "checks" in your first comment. Shows where my mind was! But yeah, I think this boon/bane/success/failure dice system is a really interesting one. I might try it out in my non-combat encounters.
Well if you are willing to be a bit flexible then in D&D you can absolutely replicate the effects of several dice types you spoke about here. Someone helps you = advantage; something hinders you = disadvantage. If you want to narrate something amazing happening, make the player roll for Athletics to jump into a moving carriage. Think about how difficult it can be. Then see how their result compared to the DC you set. If you set it at, say, 10 and they rolled a 12 or 14 - everything is fine. If they rolled a 20 total, something beneficial can happen. If they roll nat. 20, something even more amazing can happen. Likewise, if they failed the check, it doesn't necessary need to mean that they did not manage the jump. Varying degrees of success. If they rolled an 8, you can say that they managed the jump but are now hanging on their fingertips. You preserve the thing you treasure - ie. not knowing how it turns out - with the simplicity. Just instead of several types of dice telling you whether something happens, only the difference between the DC and the check result tells you that. When my players roll to see whether they can find a specific shop in a new town, a low result doesn't necessary mean they can't find it - it just means that it took them much longer than expected.
The cool thing about the system proposed here is that I didn't think I'd use it out of the box, but I immediately starting thinking about how I'd houserule a version more in line with the kind of game I want to play/run. Neat.
Thanks Matt I’ve missed your handsome face - I had a question for you, I’ve been running the game for a 2 years now, inspired by you, but I’m coming up in the end of the campaign… how do you end a long running game?
I ended a 2-year campaign a few months ago, and the way I basically did that was concluding the big story arc, making sure the player characters had their goals reasonably met, tying up NPCs and their stories, and then letting the players decide where their characters go next. Some of them retired, went home to family. Some decided to sail off to distant lands. And some decided to start a little adventuring guild together. That campaign ending had a bittersweet tone to it, but mostly sweet. My brother ended a long campaign with one of the player characters dying in a climactic battle to save the universe, another player dying in a epilogue while destroying a powerful wizard who had manipulated her and her town the entire campaign, yet another player turning evil and then being killed by a player, and my character returning to his studies at the University, trying to understand the powerful magic he encountered on the quest. So it can be a really depressing and emotionally heavy ending, too, if that's what works for your campaign.
I've only played/DM DnD. I have to say I love the dice pool mechanic and how to use it for a "scene" resolution rather than a "shot" resolution. I want to try to do a version of this in DnD for Skill Challenge moments.
I have played Edge of the Empire as well, and that dice system has become beloved by me because of all the reasons it seems to have been loved by you. I hope to use the basic system to run a game in the future. Thank you for all of your content Matt, always insightful and entertaining and just plain fun to listen to. I always appreciate your perspective and reasonings, and I can genuinely thank you for years of DMing now under my belt because of your first video. Peace, Out.
For what it's worth, I disagree with the idea that the Blades in the Dark book has its rules heavily intertwined with the setting. The first chapter is called "The basics" which outlines everything you need to know very concisely, and gives page references to further in the book if you need some more detail. The setting is described (admittedly, with excruciating detail to things like the calendar) in a pretty self-contained chapter at the end. The GM isn't expected to memorise everything, it primarily serves as a reference for when a player says they have an ally in the Wraiths or something.
Yeah, I have Blades in the dark and the DND player's handbook and the Player's handbook is much worse because it's written like a novel about the default DND setting. Which is fine for new players but sucks for people who just want the rules or find them later. Like in my first and only game of dnd it was back to the book for every little thing for me. Blades system is a lot more streamlined and info easer to find.
I agree, the 'heist' mechanics (using the clocks and flashbacks, specifically) are easily imported into other games and I have done so to good effect in the past.
True, though I think if you're not accustomed to the kind of fiction-first framing BitD and PbtA games go for, you might confuse being conversant in the fiction with knowing all the lore. Understanding the vibe of the fiction is very useful for being able to come up with stuff on the fly which is what the games are asking, knowing the lore itself might even be detrimental. Still, I think it's understandable if you're coming from D&D to think the lore is the important part.
I ran a fairly successful (if short lived, for availability reasons) campaign of a blades hack called Seas of Dead Men. I honestly loved the system, the way the points in moves gave you an extra dice was super easy for players to pick up, the idea that certain circumstances gave them extra dice etc was very easy for 5e players. (Everyone loved the flashback system. From here on out, a 0 stress flashback is just allowed in my dnd games. 'Of course the characters discussed this') The only problem I had with the system overall was the implementation of the free play > heist > downtime loop, which I don't think works outside of many structures other than heists.
If it wasn't a bunch of work to redo the moves and special abilities of the character sheets I think I would run all my future games in that system. As it is, I'm currently PbtA hopping looking for something that fits my current vibe.
Loved the video Matt. The dice cam was a great touch. Felt very refreshing and perhaps not as structured as some of the more recent videos, which i liked. The very scripted, structured videos are great, but there was just a hint of the old ways and that was plenty and great 👍
I think those principles are very true and important for many people. But, do you think there is still merit in trying to introduce the strengths of other systems into D&D, if migrating systems doesn't turn out to be a practical option? I do, though it's still hard work
my opinion is that there's absolutely small mechanics that can be stolen and adapted to D&D from other systems; however, if you find yourself trying to alter D&D by supplementing mechanics from other systems to the point that you're changing the very base assumptions of D&D, you're better off playing another system
Blades do be good for heists tho, the system and specifically the flashbacks are fun and cinematic. The setting is specific, but it isn't prescriptive. It even does a lot of the same things you really liked about the Warhammer Fantasy RPG system without the fiddly dice
We just finished up a few sessions in Edge of Empire last night. One of the things our group liked most was the dice pool - that you can fail while getting a bonus or succeed with some kind of penalty, or any combination. Funny how you're talking about it today
I am strongly of the opinion that a completely setting-agnostic system is going to be necessarily worse for it, because it simply cannot make any kind of strong assumptions about the world, or the type of play, or the kind of stories that are going to be told, and thus can't really take large steps to mechanically SUPPORT those things. The rules inform the texture of the game. If they have had all the idiosyncrasies filed down so as not to clash with any conceivable setting, then you have a completely textureless game, one with no commitments to its ideas, no themes, and nothing to say. Theme and setting and play are explicitly linked, imo. The themes of a piece of media are expressed through the setting, and the setting provides the catalyst for the action, and the action describes the themes. In the case of tabletop, the action is limited by the mechanics, so if the mechanics do not support certain ideas of the setting, then that cycle is dysfunctional, as the action is not CAPABLE of describing the themes. This is all to say, I would rather play a tightly focused game with something to say, than a broad and bland game that gives me nothing to work with. I do not need, nor want, every system to be able to slot into D&D. That would be awful for the entire industry to be limited by WotC's design, and mean that WotC wouldn't be able to learn from other games to improve their next iteration. Just like D&D, Blades' mechanics are highly dependent on the setting. Not the specific proper nouns of people and locations, but the themes and texture of a being trapped in a haunted Victorian city. The idea of a massive class and economic disparity and Victorian sensibilities is NECESSARY for playing thieves and bravos and assassins to land as roguish underdogs and victims of circumstance and not as psychopathic creeps. The idea of a bottled-up, inescapable city is NECESSARY for the mechanical aspects of constantly mounting pressure from other gangs and from authorities to function and to prevent players from just running away from consequences. The idea of a haunted city where ghosts are a public health crisis is NECESSARY to balance out murder as a solution to every problem, with the massive consequences that making a corpse brings down. Together, these things produce a unique experience of playing scrappy anti-heros or charming villains who are punching up in the midst of constantly mounting pressure that WILL explode into a dramatic climax at some point 10-ish sessions in. Sure, you could excise Blade's mechanics and apply them in D&D, but you would have to scrub out a lot of what makes the game good to just slot them into D&D, and just straight up give up on a lot of the most interesting parts. I think what people are really saying when they say "If you want to do a heist you should play Blades," is "If you want to do a CAMPAIGN about heists, you should START A NEW CAMPAIGN using Blades." I think you need buy in from everyone, GM included, to play a new system on its own terms, at least at first, instead of treating it like an add-on for another game out of the box. Blades is a fully detailed system, not a supplement, and it has its own mechanisms at work that are going to stop ticking if you decide to start pulling pieces of the clockwork out under the notion that they're ornamental.
I agree that no good system I've used is truly agnostic. For BitD, it's actually easier to take the IDEAS that it puts forth about its mechanics than it is to rip the literal mechanics without starting from the ground up. I think that's why BiTD hacks can work, but trying to put parts of BitD into other games requires a lot of tinkering. Genesys, the "setting-agnostic" system mentioned in this video, still has unique themes and goals. It works best for pulp heroes with odds against them, and it endeavors to make "movie moments" instead of deadly or tactical scenes. Thankfully it's absolutely wonderful at what it does, but as you point out, it would be extremely difficult to just slot parts of it into other games.
Was Zee (sp?) reading the same Blades in the Dark book as I was? The vast majority of the book is about running the game. The setting material is only really the latter one-third of the book. The sections on running a heist "the Score" and "Running the Game" are clearly marked in the table of contents. I feel like most of the book is about teaching how play works and the game principles.
It sounds like a lot of the agency in your warhammer dice system is taken out of the player's hands and put into the GM's. It lets the DM be creative in interpreting the results, but where a game like D&D might let the player say "I'm going to throw dirt in the minotaur's eyes and then kick him in the balls", it sounds like the player just goes "ok here's my dice roll to fight the minotaur, now GM tell me how I did".
I know Matt prefers scripting his videos, but I really enjoyed this more free-form one. It took me back to the earlier videos, which, granted, were a bit rambly, but had their own charm over the strictly scripted ones (which I love too). Regarding the subject - take what you love and put it in your game. I took the "partial success" idea of Dungeon World / BitD and my skill checks and saving throws now have two DCs, ie. "18/12" - the first one is a success, the second one still mostly succeeds, but with consequences. It's a great way to put some shades of gray into the narrative, especially if other players help with their own ideas (to screw the player making the check).
I love this video. You did a great job explaining how we could use these dice. I now want these dice to use in skill encounters or some great cinematic events.
This is so spot on! You can play just about any type of game in any system but the Mechanics and the System will influence that gameplay so you might as well use a system that aids the gameplay you want. Also, I love LOVE that you are talking about this system. I am a big fan of FFG’s SW & Genesys systems and played many hundreds of hours in it. The main difference is the dice system has been refined and improved to be a little less noodley but still presents exactly as you say in feel and potential execution. One of the only systems that aids in Narrative play through the system, not just the creativity of the players & narrator. Love it Matt! Thanks for the Vid!
Mr. Colville, I love how you run the game! I just watched Dusk #6 and I am completely enchanted. I especially liked the part when Dael said "I have been Colvilled." That being said, I want to stress as a DM myself that it doesnt matter what system you run, it matters how you run it. Like you I have many rulesets coursing thru my brain .. Blades in the Dark, OSE, DCC, CoC, Dungeon World, D&D .. My take-away here is that as a DM, the Player Agency is the Core. And the players inform the world. But it all plays out into a scenario sculpted by the DM. You have a Masterful grasp of interactive story-telling, Inspirational.
As always, your timing is impeccable, after about two years of solely dnd my group is branching out into blades in the dark, eclipse phase, monster of the week, and a few others. Your videos always come right when i need them
Yes! Mechanics are so important for tone, and it's weird how some people don't get that. I remember before Discord took off I was in a Skype-based ttrpg group where the dm was wanting help building a lovecraftian themed rpg. Being creative and supportive, everyone pitched him ideas and helped him work through it and it was cool. It was kind of like Collabris where he would propose some ideas, collect feedback, and gather ideas up to refine and tinker with to make into a bigger project he was in charge of. But when he was trying to get us thinking about what different abilities could do and class concepts and such, I asked him where he thought the game would land between Bloodborne and Call of Cthulhu, and he said something like "I don't actually think that matters much". I know the guy wasn't dumb by any means, but that response had me at a loss. I don't have contact with them anymore cuz I quit Skype ages ago, but I hope he found this video. He was really keen on game design and seemed really hooked into the rpg space, so hopefully this video found it's way to him, to better explain that idea than I did at the time.
My favorite thing is Adventures in Middle Earth because it’s relatable, still being 5e, but introduces many game changing rules that help you play in a different way, leaning more towards exploration fitting for being in middle earth. I wish more things existed like it.
Totally agree, for example I really love traveller setting, space is cool. but the most unique thing is creation of character - there you have to roll on flow charts and determine what happened previously and how you met other party members.
One of my favorite game mechanics, which I found in VtM 5e but since transplanted onto Call of Cthulhu, is succeeding at cost. If a player narrowly misses a roll, I (as GM) offer them a reroll or a success, but tell them that there will be a roleplay price. My players reacted very strongly to this idea. The examples from the video remind me of those.
I played a lot of games during the years with different systems, one of the best I've tried is the one used on Heavy Gear from Dream Pod 9. The amout of dice you threw (d8 I think) were your skill level, you keep the higher one and then you add (or substract) your attribute (usually +1 or +2 for your main ones). In the end the most important thing on a test was that you were trained, but being naturally disposed also helped
There's a Leverage RPG powered by Cortex Plus. The gist of the game is that the heist involves a location with some predetermined obstacles inside (traps, enemies, locks, etc). The game play is basically scouting the target, identifying those threats, preparing for those threats, then entering the location with all of your preparations in play. I think Leverage itself messes with the sequence of these, so some of the preperation happens in flashback, just-in-time as an obstacle is encountered. There's an essay in the Cortex Plus Hackers Guide called "A Dungeon Crawl Is Just a Poorly Planned Heist" that talks about how heist stories and dungeon crawl stories can be combined somewhat to improve both.
I'm so glad to hear your opinion about dice pool games! I played AD&D as a kid, was away from games, then as an adult got introduced to Vampire: the Masquerade, and fell in love with the setting and the system. I've been away from RPGs for another while now, so my thoughts about this are no longer fresh. But! I think a big part of my love for the setting came from the great group I was playing with (After being away from that group and getting reintroduced to D&D5e later I went on a minor buying spree of WhiteWolf/OnyxPath games, but I don't think I would be able to make it work on my own). I also became somewhat obsessed with the idea of the dice pool in RPGs. I never tried any other pool systems, but a big part of my enjoyment of Vampire was the system (I think it was revised ed. we were playing). There is something really viscerally satisfying about building and then rolling a big pool of dice. Returning to D&D felt stingy with only the single D20. The Vampire (revised) rules seemed (to me) to be a lot simpler than the Warhammer/Genesys system you were discussing here (mostly just counting successes/failures). So, it might occupy a nice middle ground between D20 and Genesys. You get the nice chunky feel of rolling a big pool without the complexity of trying to work out all the different pools and facings (although I can see why you might like that complexity here). I'm excited that you are encouraging exploration of other games. When 5e exploded onto the scene (that was when I got reintroduced to gaming again, and then went on my buying spree), I was excited for other games to get popular too and start appearing on the shelf in any appreciable way (in the way that D&D became so mainstream). But that never really seemed to happen, so it's exciting to see what kind of conversation you can get started. I had also been following your channel hoping for a dice pool video, so it's exciting to see one now! (This was a while back so I apologize if you have actually posted other videos about that in the interim).
Woah! Vid responses oldschool youtube style!
Firstly I'm pretty excited to have tumbled into a MCDM video: I think overall your read is right -
I think I didn't communicate something well in my video and that's: **I really enjoyed Blades in the Dark and I think about it all the time.**
I just had some friction when initially running it, because it's a roleplaying game and usually roleplaying games are complex (for different reasons)
Also I've been repeatedly and convincingly informed: I'm wrong and Blades is setting neutral? I think I need to play another campaign of it.
Wow though, this made my day!
BitD is not necessarily setting neutral - the book has an implied setting, just like 5e. Rather, the setting doesn't matter - the most popular BitD hack, "Scum and Villainy" is set in the Star Wars universe with its numbers filed off. The setting matters in BitD exactly as much as it matters in 5e, that is to say, not at all.
I don’t think Blades itself is setting neutral, it’s just that it is hackable to create new games in new settings without a ton of difficulty. See Scum and Villainy, Court of Swords, Band of Blades, etc. They’re all Forged in the Dark, like Apocalypse World, similar so that you can pick them up fairly easily but skinned to fit different themes and settings. I actually feel that the setting of the world of Blades is important to the game Blades.
I love this little network of Talented and interconnected nerds so in love with this game and nerd-dom in general
Keep it up friends, love your work Zee
The playbooks have an implied setting. None of the core systems such as setting the level of position (aka risk) and effect (aka reward) and building D6 dice pool and keeping the single top result (or the resistance rolls or what have you), none of those have any implied setting beyond having a team of competent characters do heists/missions.
It's a weird thing about TTRPGS: technically, you can always swap out the setting it comes with for one of your own, but the rules as written always have things about the setting that are implied.
For instance, Burning Wheel implies that humans are weak and fragile compared to monsters, elves are ancient, mysterious, and powerful, and dwarves are greedy. Blades in the Dark implies a world that has a rich, powerful "underworld" of criminal activity to the point that everyone is involved in some way. Shadows of the Demon Lord implies that the adventurers have a more real world outlook on how monsters are creepy and terrifying. So, when you swap out the setting it comes with, the new setting you put in should have the same default assumption and implications that the rules give you, or else you need to start hacking the rules to align with your setting more.
And that's where we come to the often crux of the issue with other games and people telling you to play them instead: when you start hacking the rules, the more you hack them, the more work you do and the less like the original system it becomes. At some point, you cross a line where people looking at it wonder why you are hacking a system rather than just starting with a system that they think is closer to what they think you want based on your hacks. Or because they found a system that they love and demand that everyone else love it too.
"Hans.. Have you looked at our dice recently? ... They've got SKULLS on them."
"...Are we the BBEGs?"
@@mirthfulArtist "You've been listening to DnD propaganda again haven't you? Of course they're gonna say we're the baddies!"
"Yeah but DND doesn't get to design our _dice_ "
@@mirthfulArtist ruclips.net/video/rWvpvlT9pJU/видео.html
@@brunop.8745 OH boy this cracked me up! I even read them in the british accents!
Barbarian: we just slaughtered entire village of cultists.
Investigation checks pass wizard
Wizard: (investigating a diary)actually they're old volunteer to be cannibalized at the end of there lives.
Barbarian: are we the baddies?
5 videos in the space of 10 days! Truly Matt is a river to us, his people.
It's a shame he can't do like he did in the past, with all the movie clips. Understandable, but still a shame. Overall his videos are better put together and deliver more concentrated amounts of ideas, there was a major charm to the rougher, more "stream of consciousness" style from the before time.
Nice preMCDM reference 😆
/CHEERS LOUDLY
*After the cheers die down*
"Good the Machine still works"
Apparently Coville is alive!
"I did 27 damage to that goblin"
Uh, the goblin explodes.
Especially if its a skeleton goblin.
Hopefully somebody who is more familiar with the WHFRP dice system than I am can explain the details I got wrong!
Link to the video that inspired you to make this one?
@@blahbeastie ruclips.net/video/y7VjhHAdiec/видео.html
This is the video he is talking about.
@@benry007 Thanks!
*Checks Notes* I believe you missed something about "Bringing me Pizza" oh wait wrong notes. :P
Don't worry you got it right as far as I know.
Blades in the Dark actually has all of the rules for running the game on the website that doesn’t include any of the lore
That helps. But the rules still come with a lop of implied assumptions.
@@Yora21 a hell of a lot less assumptions than DnD comes with though
@@voland6846 I'm genuinely curious, what sort of assumptions do you think DnD comes with?
I think it would help me immensely, as a DM, to understand what sort of assumptions DnD has so that I can teach newer players accordingly. I've only ever ran DnD and I've practically glued a pair of "DnD goggles" to my eyes, so I have a hard time viewing DnD from an outsiders perspective
@@MarshaIIs Okay this is a very quick "top of my head" list:
The Gods are present and active and can grant powers to mortals.
There is magic that can be learned by anyone with enough work and intelligence.
There are other-wordly patrons (who are *not* gods) who can grant powers through contracts & deals.
There is also "natural" magic present in the physical world.
There are biologically distinct physical races.
Some of those races can (for some reason?) interbreed, while others can't.
There's also the system-not-setting assumptions like "Most problems can be solved by violence" and "A life of killing and plundering doesn't have any appreciable effects on the protagonists other than making them better at killing and pillaging" but I don't think that's what you were asking about.
So this dice system was actually created by jay little who was my professor for a game design class. Now I get to see my favorite dnd channel talk about the system my favorite teacher made. This is awesome!
In my experience, Shadowrun players are very quick to qualify their “I love Shadowrun” with “The setting, not the system”
Any GM that tells you otherwise is either lying to themselves or have an obsession with rolling buckets of dice.
As a GM who ran 1st,x 2nd, and 5th editions of Shadowrun - I will say it. I love the world and lore, I tolerated the tangled mess that was the rules. Though it did work well for ranged combat everything else was rather ad hoc.
@@reksevrin Yeah, played 5th and looked into 6th...but playing rigger was a NIGHTMARE. The rule A you needed to interpret rule B would be in an entirely different chapter with no page number reference, then rule C would refer to page X...which is in a story, not part of the actual rules text, and rigger 5.0 would have rules that supersede the core, but offer no replacement or conversion for a useful table that was in core, and then there would be situations where they mention drones and RCC could run decker programs but without listing any of the stats they’re based on, and then the index would be wrong, and then you decide to play street sam.
My brothers and I got so fed up with SR5 and SR6’s BS that we’ve been slowly homebrewing a more streamlined system over the past couple years, but not nearly ready for the light of day yet.
Ironically, I'm looking at playing Shadowrun but using Blades in the Dark. (Runners in the Shadows hack is a godsend!)
This is actually one of Hegel's points. When a person makes an argument and you say you agree, it is unclear whether you agree with the premises, conclusion, or both.
Surprise philosophy after my finals... There is truly no escape from study, even when I am looking through RUclips comments lmao
@@amoghkulkarni2239 I swear I took my Phil final 3 weeks ago and all of a sudden I'm surrounded by philosophers. Also, I agree with Schopenhauer in one point - Hegel sucks.
We need more of this positive community engagement between RUclipsrs. I still remember the friendly back and forth with Dr. Viking Cowboy. Great video Matt! Great video Zee! Thank you both.
NOW KISS!
I play the FFG Star Wars RPG, and can attest to how awesome the narrative dice can be. It is much more interesting IMO than D&D's pass/fail system, but it does force you to be more creatively flexible in DMing. Both are good and it's nice to have both. Remember that having options is a good thing in gaming and in life.
I have run a campaign in that system with my friends. The narrative dice system works really well for the Star Wars setting. It keeps the pace going very fast and forces everyone at the table to inhabit their character and interpret dice results into a progressing scene.
I'm really curious about that game. Do you find the dice mechanic slows things down at all?
I steal this for DnD with degrees of success, but it is a lot more fun to see it with the dice when playing FFG.
I've been running games for my group for every week going on over 3 years and the 12 session game we had in Star Wars Force and Destiny was probably the most epic game we ran. The power scaling was awesome, players loved the dice after session 1 awkwardness which is always to be expected. But I made 2 people who weren't even fans of the movies fall in love with content.
Can't recommend it enough.
@@mirthfulArtist It's pretty much as described by Matt, so it just takes a little while to get the hang of it. What slows down play is that what you're rolling can have specific meanings depending on what you're rolling for (from giving a bonus or penalty to your next roll in combat, to skill specific things like shortening journey lengths when using the Astrogation skill). My group came from D&D to it, and I think we were too rigid in our need for rules. It took a while to just let go and not look too hard at what the dice rolls technically can do, and just try and think of it as cool film moments that we want to pull off.
Loving the flurry of uploads
New Monk feature?
he spent a ki point
Worth the ki point
“I’ve trained as a monk for years and finally my work and determination has all culminated into this…”
*punches twice*
I read this as "furry" and was very confused....
You're spot on in why I love Genesys. You get this fabric of results rather than just target, miss, target, hit, target, miss. Genesys is also setting agnostic, so it doesn't suffer from the problem of the setting being inextricably tied to the rules.
yes~ that's exactly why i love genesys so much! i had such a specific setting i wanted to create and i just couldn't find an appropriate system for it. Genesys was honestly just perfect for it and im so happy i discovered it, really changed the way i experienced rpgs in general!
I have the base source book for Genesys, the dice and the GM Screen, but I've never been comfortable with running it because I never got a proper feel for how combat would work, or the dice pool system.
Do you have any recommendations as to resources I could check out to get a better hang of it?
I'd love to use it more (and by that I mean at least once!)
@@davebrown7483 thanks, I'll give it a look 👍 I appreciate it 😁
@@VegaraMu check Runeslinger's videos. Yes, they are Star Wars vids, but they will very much give you a ton of great ideas for basically the same system.
@@VegaraMu If you're anything like me (I can't just learn by reading the rules, have to learn by example), then actual play shows are the way to go. I HIGHLY recommend the podcast "Campaign: Skyjacks"! Or any of the other actual-play shows on the OneShot podcast network: oneshotpodcast.com/actual-play/campaign/ (but Skyjacks is my fave). There's a lot of action in episodes 5, 6, & 7 (each roughly an hour, so about one session's worth of adventure) with the real blow-by-blow combat happening in episode 7.
I think listening to just a handful of Campaign: Skyjacks episodes, plus a small handful of Campaign: the Mynock episodes (that one's in the Star Wars setting) would be a really solid demonstration of the narrative dice, including different settings and GM styles. :D
I agree with the core concept of the video. There are several settings I recommend to people but add in the caveat, "You'll want to use a different game system though." Shadowrun immediately comes to mind on that, but there are others as well. Then there are game systems that I love but can not stand the setting. I'm looking at you, Storyteller System. People get annoyed with me when I tell them these things, but I want people to have the best overall gaming experience they can have.
Shadowrun Anarchy is like Shadowrun minus all the bullshit. It makes the system a lot more loose, and a lot better for it.
@@MCXL1140 I usually use Savage Worlds when I want to play Shadowrun. Back in the day we'd actually use hack of the Storyteller system.
I love Shadowrun 3rd edition's mechanics. I prefer the lore of 1st/2nd.
No you are absolutely right about the storyteller system, I love the storyteller system, the setting of world of darkness I can take or leave in a heartbeat.
I love the Shadowrun setting, but the rules felt too extreme to me. Too much incomprehensible crap in the anniversary edition, not enough stuff (why should we bother?) in Anarchy.
I love playing D&d as a player, but running it as a GM just takes too much planning for me. I am really bad at balancing combat, because often I am more interested in the character drama than an engaging encounter. I struggled with this for a while, I felt like I wanted to weave a story with my friends but I was weighed down by a 3 hour combat, and carry weight, and movement speeds.
For anyone whose felt similar frustration, I would highly recommend Powered By The Apocalypse games. Apocalypse World, The Sprawl, Dungeon World, Masks are all very rules light. The settings are basically just genre, they provide almost no pre-made content, except for a few example enemies so homebrew is a must, which is what I love. Play just moves fluidly from scene to scene feeling more like a movie or show than a tactical combat. The mechanics are hard to get used to at first, the GM never rolls dice and many rolls resolve whole scenes. The main draw for me is that most of the rolls in the game only occur when something narratively dramatic is taking place. When a roll hits or misses, the outcome determines whether the player or the GM has narrative control. This creates a fun push and pull, but does require a lot of trust and understanding that everyone at the table is working to create a story.
These games really opened up my eyes to what rules light games have to offer.
I've not played with the dice system matt's talking about in this video but it sounds like a more crunchy version of pbta rolls (or rather maybe pbta is less crunchy version of this). I love the "succeed with consequences" of DW, and it's also very fast!
I love Dungeon World. Sadly, it didn't take off with my players. From a GM prep side, I love Cypher System. Enemies and challenges use a unified and simple system that means I never have to look at a stat block again. Though I've eventually run into problems with giving meaningful (permanent) magical loot. It turns out when you take away a lot of the unnecessary excess of D&D, there are a lot less levers to pull to reward gamers. But yeah, great suggestions, I just thought I'd leave another one here that I believe fits your point.
I recently got into PBTA by running Masks without ever seeing it before, and it was such an incredible experience of just how dynamic everything is, including battles. It was less of me weaving the narrative and the next steps, and more of me asking back the players' questions, and us weaving the narrative together. I absolutely agree that you need a group that understands what the system wants from you, and thankfully I had just that.
Experimented with PbtA and FATE. Eventually settled on Cypher as the system for our group. The sort of narrative focus and encouraging player input of those systems, but more mechanically tight and defined was much easier for my players.
Cypher works for players who need some crunch to ground themselves.
PbtA and FATE worked great with groups who can mostlt improv and wing everything, but just need an occasional resolution mechanic.
Apocalypse World actually sprang to mind when Matt was talking about other systems. I love PbtA games, but I run D&D 5e more than anything.
I usually toss out anything that doesn't enhance the style of game I play, which usually means travel rules, tracking small inventory (rations, ammo, pocket change), and similar small details.
I prefer narrative games, so the enjoyment doesn't come from tracking things like that.
Playing something like a West Marches campaign, I'd definitely be leaning into encumberance, travel, and exhaustion.
(I also run combat with Health pools for most enemies, so maybe I'm just lazy)
Very interesting to hear someone got caught up in Blades lore instead of the system, given there are now dozens of spinoff games that have repurposed the Blades core rules for other settings and genres
You need the settings that these hacks come with though, because the basic rules don't balance wizards and fighters for example - so you need in setting balance (otherwise who would be a fighter when you can be a battle mage?).
@@chromeego7903 I really don't see balance between 'classes' as a thing in a game like BitD/PbtA that is narrative first.. at least it shouldn't be if it's ran well. Balance in these games comes in the amount of spotlight the characters get and if the player is happy with it. And while you can argue that's true of D&D as well, the focus of combat effectiveness in the mechanics ensures that that spotlight can be stolen away through system mastery as easily as someone just trying to chew up scenery
@@DaveBozarth Balance isn't a thing in BitD because there is stuff in the premise that flattens an amazing skill that would otherwise be a 'no brainer' take on character creation. For example the ability to control demons would be devastating if unconstrained by the dire consequences of the world setting.
Danilo Furtado had the idea of Flashbacks costing a % of hitpoints. The thing is porting these good ideas over might come with consequences that go unnoticed. 10% of a fighters hitpoints is less of a hit then 10% of a wizards hitpoints, so your fighter might end up coming up with all the planning flashbacks- this seems 'wrong' (not wrong but kind of not what you would expect). So you might come out of that game thinking 'that Flashback mechanic isn't very good &I don't think I will bother playing BitD' - which would be a shame.
My point is that porting mechanics from other games has hidden consequences. The designer chose those mechanics that often have roots or 'balancing' in the setting.
Also: any game 'ran well' will be by definition enjoyable so that isn't really a point. Try My Little Pony 'run well' and you will have a mind blowing time.
I think you've kind of hit on the best reason to play "other games" regardless of what your favorite game is. If you only play one system, when you decide you want to play/run something that doesn't work great with the system, if you have to rely solely on internet advice you'll probably have a hard time since the internet is unlikely to really know what you're aiming for.
On the other hand, if you've played a bunch of different games you have a much easier time evaluating if one of them can be a suitable tool for running your crazy idea. One shots and mini-campaigns can also help bring to light the areas where your favorite system shines. There are pros and cons to every game, but ultimately and RPG's mechanics are just tools. Knowing which tool is right for the job is a great skill to have, but you'll only really get it by trying a bunch of different games.
Finally, take every internet suggestion with a grain of salt. I may like game X because it really helps me run/play the kind of game I like, but that doesn't necessitate that the game you want to run would be best served with my favorite system.
“What album is that behind Matt?”
“Yes.”
91025
This people-friendly river has been a bountiful torrent lately! Appreciate it!
Warhammer's dice system was a really good choice for an example of just how different this stuff can get and how much that can affect not only the mechanics, but the narrative as well. It's so weird and alien that you largely can't tell what's going on unless you have a translation somewhere, but once you understand it, it's actually pretty simple.
Blades in the dark lore can mostly be safely ignored much like the forgotten realms lore for DnD. Dont be intimidated by it! Before seeing Zee's and Colville's videos on it i wouldn't have even remarked on the lore as being a super central thing to the game.
This could not be more true, I ran a game of blades for nearly two years, probably my most successful campaign ever, and the first time I ever heard about the names of the hours was from Zee's video
The big lore pieces that are tied to the mechanics are ghosts. Lightning walls keeping people in the city and faction lore so you can run the faction game. There are a ton of options there so I can see why someone would think the lore is overwhelming. Especially if you read it and think that you're doing the game a disservice by not using the lore and everything accompanying it. Zee went further than I did by reading cover to cover and even with my reading I found Myself a bit overwhelmed with how much information the book provides for the large number of factions, ghosts, demons, vampires and other things like that as well as how they interact.
It's true you don't need that much to get started. Even a faction game (2-3 competing factions in one district with the ability to add more later) can begin simply.
These are just some ramblings about my experience so far. I have run the game before for a short stint and am planning on running the game again in a west marches style. I'm very excited to try it out again.
I think this is true but also not, in that Blades to me is intimately tied to the setting. But the system itself can be skinned to create new games using the same mechanics to fit whatever sort of game you’re trying to play.
@@Aud_the_Odd Fully agree with your comment. Blades is tied to the setting, but nothing stops one from stripping it down. Tbh, that's how I run my D&D games in the Forgotten Realms 😂
I don't think that's completely true though, in regards to the forgotten realms lore. Like in order for a wizard in stock 5e to work, you need to include the stock spell lists, which makes several implications about characters and setting that aren't necessarily true in your campaign. You could design a completely new spell list, but then you're building a completely new homebrew class to balance, which is it's own separate problem. Another example, including Elves, Dwarves, Halftlings, and then Half-Orcs but no full Orcs as playable races sends a pretty clear (and somewhat troubling) message to players, in addition to making assumptions about your setting, which isn't even to get into how those racial traits imply very narrow characterization of those races that might not be true for you.
ANOTHER VIDEO!?!? What is this 2018???
Big fan of Zee. I like this crossover episode...what if Zee got to guest play like Dael in a game to? I'd die.
Genesys is a fantastic system. Been running it for a little over a year now, and I would love to see it featured in your Other RPG Spotlight series.
Always upvote Genesys, it’s my most used system by far. So pleasantly surprised by it getting attention in this video.
Genesys is also very easy to make home brew for. As long as the setting or play style isn’t simulationist, it’ll work perfectly.
Glad to see that; I am looking at using it for a very political game in Renaissance Italy
Dungeon Crawl Classics is my first or second favorite RPG that I have ever played. Rules for actual play are rather simple, but there is a lot of depth with gods and patrons and magic. Funnels are amazing and the philosophy it has is sorta exactly what I like. The annual and Lankhmar are amazing additions to it as well
I run DCC currently and love it. I've been considering making the funnels come with a premade cadre of jobs which collectively are a community. Citizens of a farming village, pioneers, the neighborhood of a city, etc. Then have the players roll on the community chart for their level 0 characters, and determine some basic relations between the PCs
My GOD i love DCC, when I first got it I was marveling at how chaotic the game is. I realize that the obscene amounts of tables and crunchiness can turn people off from it, but as someone who had been playing 5e for so long at that point, it was a breath of fresh air.
@@eternalpoliwhirl I view it as some sort of impossible middle ground between rather rules light and extra crunchy. Just so happens to have crunch where I like and none where I dont
@@johnnygreenface totally, like it doesn't have a skill system which I really like, but also there's like four pages of rules on how to generate a magic sword. And its priest class is exactly what I like about clerics in rpgs
I've recently become infatuated with the Dungeon Crawl Classics system, as it is inspired by D&D's appendix N, but is rules light and fun over lots of mechanics.
The whole game is truly made on good ttrpg philosophy, giving players and the DM much more liberty without the rules. Making monsters and magic items is so fast, simple and fun; wizard magic is wild and chaotic whereas cleric's relationship with their God is core to their class; the theif and warrior are simple but reward creativity in combat much more than their 5e counter parts AND homebrew is so easy and fun (and pretty much assumed) do to the game's design.
Going to really have a blast with this game :3
I came here to endorse Dungeon Crawl Classics as well. Absolutely fantastic game system! Rolling for everything is super fun and the story builds itself along with how the rolls go.
I’ve had some of the most fun sessions I’ve ever GMd in DCC. Fun is designed into the game, I think it’s impossible to play that game without leaving the table with a few crazy stories
I love DCC! Such a jam
@@jonahsmith2906 the system has emergent gameplay built into it. Even fumbles (often more so) help to move the story forward.
I wanna try DCC so bad!
I love when a game's systems are designed to be inseperable from the reality of the setting, it's one of the big reasons that Vampire: The Masquerade clicked with me so strongly coming off of D&D. Everything mechanical in that game is tied to some fact aboit existing in that world or is there to reinforce the thematic elements, and I find that super cool.
It's funny that you say 'coming off D&D' because as someone who plays a lot of different TTRPGs I feel like there is a *tremendous* amount of D&D that is inseparable from certain setting elements you basically have to have in your setting or ignore/change bits of D&D. D&D as a ruleset doesn't care what the place is called or if the background is grass or sand, but it cares an awful lot about a lot of what's in the setting background.
@@aduboo29 example?
@@Silkspar A character can train and become a literal superhero. Thats a large assumption.
@@collin6691 sure, maybe, but you stated setting background. Character progression is not the same I think.
@@Silkspar Theyre linked. The type of world were that is possible is radically different than onewhere it isnt. Another obvious example is the classes.
How to run a pre-planned heist in any system: have players make rolls for how they are helping the preplanning process. Each success adds a metacurrency (bennies, hero points) to a pool that the heroes can draw on during the event. Spending a point from the pool either grants them a reroll or adds a vital tool to their inventory.
L5R RPG from FFG uses a similar dice system, Successes, 'Opportunities' instead of 'Boon'. It really fleshes out the dynamics of Samurai battle and works well with the different mechanics for Investigation, Dueling and Massed Battles. You may be blocked while striking, but in that moment capture a glimpse into the opponents Loyalties or Desires. Like i said, fits and fills out the Samurai theme so well.
Underrated video. I feel like this should be required watching for novice worldbuilders! Be us authors, game masters, screenwriters... This is almost "Storyworlds 101" for me.
Genesys is amazing. The dice add SO MUCH to the storytelling. They also make the plauers take an active role in telling the story. They aren't just relying on the DM to tell them everything that's going on. It really makes things so much more interesting, fun and surprising.
blessed be the Coleville upload day
update from last week: girlfriend and I worked things out
Back to back Colville, hell yes
I'm so glad we're getting talks about other systems and rules.There are so many fun and interesting RPGs out there!
I really enjoyed the amazing engine system that tsr put out back in the day. Specifically the bughunters game, which was such a great tool for telling gritty space Marines style games.
For a little while now I've believed that you look at what the game simulates to see what is important to that game.
I now have to add "how it simulates it" to that statement thanks to this video.
We’re being spoiled with all of this content
I've been running Edge of the Empire for my players for a few months now and they have really warmed up to the system. Letting them drive the narrative with their rolls has lead to some amazing games. I highly recommend it!
Am I the only one loving this little Inception game of uploading gaming videos about other gamers' uploaded gaming videos about other games? So meta.
Your move, Zee.
This is such a perfectly timed video for me. I have been working on my own system (mainly for my own fun) which initially had a specific setting but the more I worked on it, the more I realised it’s better without a specific setting, this has really cemented that. I’m also using a d6 dice pool system so this gives me some interesting thoughts. Thanks so much.
Right now I've been playing in a game of rogue trader for about 8 months when before then I only played dnd. Rogue Trader takes place in the. Warhammer 40k universe, wich is immensely hostile "in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium there is only war". In rogue trader you are part of a rogue traders retinue. A rogue trader is a special type of noble whose entire purpose is explore beyond the borders of the imperium of man and rediscover lost technologies to aid the imperium in thier conquest of the stars, along with scouting ahead of the imperium war fleets. You are out in the fringes with maybe a small fleet of ships and no one is coming to aid you and you have no idea what's in the next sector or star system. It could be a pirate den, there could be a fleet of choas space marines, fleets of horrific Xenos like the Slauth/maggot men or even still active men of iron Ala Super Terminator AI. But rogue traders are also somewhat above the law so they are allowed to have xenos in thier retinue as long as they stay outside the imperium. So you can play an eldar corsair, or an ork freeboota, or even a tau. But the imperium of man is fanatic Xenophobes, "suffer not the xeno the live" is universal in the imperium so of you play a xeno you have to deal with xenophobia from the crew and that's just part of the game. But that's the charm of it, you are out in the fringes with limited resources so beggers can't be choosers and you need all the help you can get. It's very interesting and very sandboxy with alot of interesting mechanics and overall a very positive experience despite being a very different game in a very different universe.
"As we arrive in orbit, I'll announce our arrival with 36 hours of orbital bombardment. Then hail them."
There’s also a few other
dark heresy, where you play the cronies of an inquisitor
Only War, you’re an imperial guardsmen. If you don’t know what that is, you’ve got a snowball’s chance in hell of living.
Deathwatch, you play as space marines which are the setting’s super soldiers
Dark crusade, you play as chaos.
@@alizard7617 yea I've always wanted to play deathwatch and play a blood angels librarian but I could never find a game for it.
I love Rogue Trader; ran a few games of it over the years. Being the Warhammer 40k version of Star Trek's Enterprise, riding that boundary between imperial space and the wild stars beyond, was one of my favourite ways to engage with the setting.
It was a breath of fresh air next to tabletop. I like Space Marines, but they're so damn popular it leaves the rest of the universe struggling for room to breathe.
Rogue Trader can be an amazing way to approach a hex-crawl/point-crawl sandbox. I only got to play a few sessions of it, but it was used as a conlusion to a long-running dark heresy game with set narrative to pursue, and the storyteller didn't let us engage with it as a sandbox.
As a fellow DM that loved 4E and has current 4E campaigns I thank you for them videos they help and keep the creativity juices flowing. Thank you.
Can I just say that this video had what I wanted in the "Other games you should try" video. An exited story about the fun you had. Amy felt like she was just reading press copy. I know she wrote it, but it was just a description of the game and setting. (I know she made a statement about diving into darker subjects than normal, but again, that isn't a specific story, and there wasn't that moment of "This was so cool!" that sells people on a game.).
Man, I'm here for these videos about other systems. I've realized I'm getting a little burnt out from reading/watching Dnd stuff.
I know it entirely misses the point of "play the right game" that's been a focus recently, but this really really feels like what the plan was supposed to be with dnd 4e skill challenges. I wonder if skill challenges could be improved by having story dice along with the roll rather than advantage/disadvantage and other dnd-focused processes?
Just use the Blades in the Dark Circles system as a replacement for skill challenges.
@@FMD-FullMetalDragon In the spirit of the video - Why? What is good about it? Why do you like it?
Your explanation of the system differences with the dice in the story type sense is brilliant. I hadn't thought of what you get FROM the dice in play style rather than that just being those mechanics.
1st class video, possibly one of the best in a philosophical sense.
When running edge of the empire i had a hard time constantly coming up with side-effects for the equivalents of banes and boons. I should give that game another go...
There is a table in each of the three core books with recommended ways to spend your advantages and disadvantages
I also came across this problem when I was running it especially for longer campaigns. The trick I learned was simply, don't make a big story event out of every side effect. Just simply give a player strain as they over exert themselves performing some action, and like wise for good side effects just do the opposite, you get a rush of energy and endorphins, remove some strain. Then you can save you cooler effects for the bigger moments. Oh you made the shot but it left you open to an enemy attack, oh you made the jump but you dropped your coin purse, oh you killed the enemy and they fell on a stack of crates that fall on the other enemies slowing them down and opening them up to attacks. I hope this helps you.
We had a bit of trouble likle that. I was only a player but for me it felt like I couldn't suggest much since I'm not the most creative on the fly.
Currently running a game myself, I love the system and the dice but sometimes I do struggle when I'm dealing with 6 boons and 4 banes in a singular roll. I have subscribed to the thought of sometimes there just isn't anything you can do, just spend a few of each and let the rest slide.
@@jackthejedi6540 Are you playing the Edge of the Empire iteration like Zeedar in the above comment or are you playing the Warhammer version that Matt demonstrated in the video?
I've never played the Warhammer version, so I'm not sure if it is 100% identical or not. In the Star Wars/Genesys version Boons are called Advantages, Banes are called Disadvantages or Threats.
Within a single roll Advantages and Threats cancel each other out and your result is interpreted from whatever dice remain after the cancellation.
So, in your example with 6 Advantages and 4 Threat your result would only include 2 Advantages.
Always glad to hear more about the Genesys system from big channels!
"If that sounds like it would be tedious for you, then that is probably not your kind of game." You hit the nail on the head Matt. I read these rules in the Star Wars game was went "Oh hell no!" and sold the book. I envisioned the game slowing to a crawl while my players constantly asked about what dice to use, or tried to bargain for the good dice, and then had to ask what the symbols meant after every single roll. Not to mention everyone having to spend money on something they already have tons of - dice. Give me 15+6=21 and done!
And that is why we have different games, to satisfy people with different tastes.
Yeah, I don't think this dice pool system is for me. The good thing about the D20 system is that it's fast and flexible, you either succeed in a cool way or fail in a cool way at a specific task. This lets players make multiple choices in each encounter and it lets the DM build the sense of success or the threat of failure with each roll. With the dice pool, you kind of build in all the inputs and then just roll for the result of a fight or an encounter. It wouldn't make sense to build the pool and roll for each minor action. My goal in every session is to maximize player agency and minimize rules parsing. The dice pool seems like it would tend to stymie player and DM agency.
Matt, thanks for another great video!
Our gateway to TTRPG was then newly published Fantasy Flight Star Wars (Edge of the Empire to be exact) game. After some research I realized that their starting sets were second to none when it comes to introducing new players into the hobby. And that proved to be very very true for us.
The Star Wars setting was a huge selling point for my players. But it was the system and the dice that truly made it shine. It is extremely intuitive and dials storytelling and improvisation to 11. I am so happy that we've started playing using narrative dice. When we started our second campaign using D&D 5E we all very much loved how the system is streamlined and easy, but we had no problem continuing to narrate all die rolls just as we did in FFG SW system.
We have a great campaign in 5E, but everyone in the group would love to dive back in our old SW game for a one shot or a small follow-up adventure at some point. For the story and characters mostly, but also for the system and those dice.
This made me miss 3rd Edition!
I'm a huge WFRP Fan, I do love the setting, but I really enjoy the brutality of the game. I like a system that doesn't get in the way of the actual game, I don't want to be stopping every 5 minutes checking rules.
I cannot belive how happy this video has made me! perfect timing as im making a Pathologic style game for my kid , Thank you x
I love the magic system in Low Fantasy Gaming, as you cast spells they are more likely to have Dark and Dangerous Magic effects. It keeps the magic from taking over the game and ensures the players think things through before they cast spell.
It's always so good to watch this videos because they reaffirm ideas and thoughts I have, but I'm never sure on them.
Seeing you basically taking stuff from my head and saying them in a coherent and well explained way makes me very safe.
Hi Matt. I love this way of explaining a game. I like the lady you had on before but it felt like a sales pitch. This video feels like a person passionate about a game and why it's cool. Maybe it's your style of presenting, IDK. This is why, I think, people are so drawn to your channel. Thank you for actually making a difference in the gaming community.
I hang out on a Discord server where we seem to have a unique blend of people with backgrounds in different styles of play. Over the past year, we’ve had a lot of practice talking about completely different games and styles and communicating what we like about them. I’m glad to see you are making an effort to improve communication about RPGs!
Having watched 70 sessions of Chaosium's King Arthur Pendragon on Eric Vulgaris's channel, I can say that the mechanics do a nearly perfect job in emulating the Arthurian legends.
Hey matt, I'm sure my story isn't a new one but i just wanted to say thank you. I had been trying to get into dnd for a long time, but there really weren't any dm's or players for that matter where I live. I had been overwhelmed by the concept of trying to dm since i had never even played in a dnd session before. But then i came upon your videos and while i didn't use your starting dungeon it gave me the kick in the butt i needed. I'm now fumbling my way as a dm with a group of friends who are all new to dnd. We're going into our 3rd adventure, our 5th month consecutive of play and already some of my friends have started to give me a bit more on their characters backstory where it is now the main focus of their next adventure. I can't thank you enough and the rest of the community here for the resources and neat insights into being a dm.
I recently started GMing Fantasy Flight's Edge of the Empire, and I really love it. Skill checks are so much more interesting than RAW 5e. It fits in to my style a bit better than 5e I think, though I still love DnD. I highly recommend FFG swrpg!
Do you think it could be implemented into 5e?
@@mirthfulArtist your question doesn't really make sense to me. 5e is fundamentally a d20 system, everything you do in that game stems from the d20. If you replace the d20 with the dice pool it is now a different system. If you mean could you run the FFG dice system in a fantasy setting ala forgotten realms, absolutely you could. It would take some finagling, but it's possible.
@@trombonegamer14 I meant do you think ffg style skill challenges could be implemented into 5e, with the dice pool reflecting proficiencies, ability mods, help actions, etc.
@@mirthfulArtist so you're saying, I call for an athletics check in dnd, and instead of rolling a d20 you pick up a series of ability and challenge dice? Because I would no longer call that 5e, the core rule of the game has changed. It would affect everything
@@trombonegamer14 Oh sorry, I meant Skill *Challenges,* like the ones in 4e that were never really carried over to 5e. I didn't realize you said "checks" in your first comment. Shows where my mind was!
But yeah, I think this boon/bane/success/failure dice system is a really interesting one. I might try it out in my non-combat encounters.
Well if you are willing to be a bit flexible then in D&D you can absolutely replicate the effects of several dice types you spoke about here. Someone helps you = advantage; something hinders you = disadvantage. If you want to narrate something amazing happening, make the player roll for Athletics to jump into a moving carriage. Think about how difficult it can be. Then see how their result compared to the DC you set. If you set it at, say, 10 and they rolled a 12 or 14 - everything is fine. If they rolled a 20 total, something beneficial can happen. If they roll nat. 20, something even more amazing can happen.
Likewise, if they failed the check, it doesn't necessary need to mean that they did not manage the jump. Varying degrees of success. If they rolled an 8, you can say that they managed the jump but are now hanging on their fingertips.
You preserve the thing you treasure - ie. not knowing how it turns out - with the simplicity. Just instead of several types of dice telling you whether something happens, only the difference between the DC and the check result tells you that.
When my players roll to see whether they can find a specific shop in a new town, a low result doesn't necessary mean they can't find it - it just means that it took them much longer than expected.
My man's been throwing punchy content like Rocky Balboa lately
[Eye of the Tiger lays in the background]
The cool thing about the system proposed here is that I didn't think I'd use it out of the box, but I immediately starting thinking about how I'd houserule a version more in line with the kind of game I want to play/run. Neat.
Thanks Matt I’ve missed your handsome face - I had a question for you, I’ve been running the game for a 2 years now, inspired by you, but I’m coming up in the end of the campaign… how do you end a long running game?
I ended a 2-year campaign a few months ago, and the way I basically did that was concluding the big story arc, making sure the player characters had their goals reasonably met, tying up NPCs and their stories, and then letting the players decide where their characters go next. Some of them retired, went home to family. Some decided to sail off to distant lands. And some decided to start a little adventuring guild together. That campaign ending had a bittersweet tone to it, but mostly sweet.
My brother ended a long campaign with one of the player characters dying in a climactic battle to save the universe, another player dying in a epilogue while destroying a powerful wizard who had manipulated her and her town the entire campaign, yet another player turning evil and then being killed by a player, and my character returning to his studies at the University, trying to understand the powerful magic he encountered on the quest. So it can be a really depressing and emotionally heavy ending, too, if that's what works for your campaign.
I've only played/DM DnD. I have to say I love the dice pool mechanic and how to use it for a "scene" resolution rather than a "shot" resolution. I want to try to do a version of this in DnD for Skill Challenge moments.
Yes different RPGs are fun for a change
I have played Edge of the Empire as well, and that dice system has become beloved by me because of all the reasons it seems to have been loved by you. I hope to use the basic system to run a game in the future. Thank you for all of your content Matt, always insightful and entertaining and just plain fun to listen to. I always appreciate your perspective and reasonings, and I can genuinely thank you for years of DMing now under my belt because of your first video. Peace, Out.
For what it's worth, I disagree with the idea that the Blades in the Dark book has its rules heavily intertwined with the setting. The first chapter is called "The basics" which outlines everything you need to know very concisely, and gives page references to further in the book if you need some more detail. The setting is described (admittedly, with excruciating detail to things like the calendar) in a pretty self-contained chapter at the end.
The GM isn't expected to memorise everything, it primarily serves as a reference for when a player says they have an ally in the Wraiths or something.
Yeah, I have Blades in the dark and the DND player's handbook and the Player's handbook is much worse because it's written like a novel about the default DND setting. Which is fine for new players but sucks for people who just want the rules or find them later. Like in my first and only game of dnd it was back to the book for every little thing for me. Blades system is a lot more streamlined and info easer to find.
I agree, the 'heist' mechanics (using the clocks and flashbacks, specifically) are easily imported into other games and I have done so to good effect in the past.
True, though I think if you're not accustomed to the kind of fiction-first framing BitD and PbtA games go for, you might confuse being conversant in the fiction with knowing all the lore. Understanding the vibe of the fiction is very useful for being able to come up with stuff on the fly which is what the games are asking, knowing the lore itself might even be detrimental. Still, I think it's understandable if you're coming from D&D to think the lore is the important part.
I ran a fairly successful (if short lived, for availability reasons) campaign of a blades hack called Seas of Dead Men.
I honestly loved the system, the way the points in moves gave you an extra dice was super easy for players to pick up, the idea that certain circumstances gave them extra dice etc was very easy for 5e players. (Everyone loved the flashback system. From here on out, a 0 stress flashback is just allowed in my dnd games. 'Of course the characters discussed this')
The only problem I had with the system overall was the implementation of the free play > heist > downtime loop, which I don't think works outside of many structures other than heists.
If it wasn't a bunch of work to redo the moves and special abilities of the character sheets I think I would run all my future games in that system. As it is, I'm currently PbtA hopping looking for something that fits my current vibe.
Loved the video Matt. The dice cam was a great touch. Felt very refreshing and perhaps not as structured as some of the more recent videos, which i liked. The very scripted, structured videos are great, but there was just a hint of the old ways and that was plenty and great 👍
I think those principles are very true and important for many people. But, do you think there is still merit in trying to introduce the strengths of other systems into D&D, if migrating systems doesn't turn out to be a practical option? I do, though it's still hard work
I love finding new stuff to shove in to d&d. It usually doesn't work great but it can be very fun to try!
my opinion is that there's absolutely small mechanics that can be stolen and adapted to D&D from other systems; however, if you find yourself trying to alter D&D by supplementing mechanics from other systems to the point that you're changing the very base assumptions of D&D, you're better off playing another system
Thanks so much for this video, Matt! It helped me to realize that the system I was working on had a setting that did not match its mechanics at all
Blades do be good for heists tho, the system and specifically the flashbacks are fun and cinematic. The setting is specific, but it isn't prescriptive.
It even does a lot of the same things you really liked about the Warhammer Fantasy RPG system without the fiddly dice
We just finished up a few sessions in Edge of Empire last night. One of the things our group liked most was the dice pool - that you can fail while getting a bonus or succeed with some kind of penalty, or any combination. Funny how you're talking about it today
I am strongly of the opinion that a completely setting-agnostic system is going to be necessarily worse for it, because it simply cannot make any kind of strong assumptions about the world, or the type of play, or the kind of stories that are going to be told, and thus can't really take large steps to mechanically SUPPORT those things. The rules inform the texture of the game. If they have had all the idiosyncrasies filed down so as not to clash with any conceivable setting, then you have a completely textureless game, one with no commitments to its ideas, no themes, and nothing to say.
Theme and setting and play are explicitly linked, imo. The themes of a piece of media are expressed through the setting, and the setting provides the catalyst for the action, and the action describes the themes. In the case of tabletop, the action is limited by the mechanics, so if the mechanics do not support certain ideas of the setting, then that cycle is dysfunctional, as the action is not CAPABLE of describing the themes.
This is all to say, I would rather play a tightly focused game with something to say, than a broad and bland game that gives me nothing to work with. I do not need, nor want, every system to be able to slot into D&D. That would be awful for the entire industry to be limited by WotC's design, and mean that WotC wouldn't be able to learn from other games to improve their next iteration.
Just like D&D, Blades' mechanics are highly dependent on the setting. Not the specific proper nouns of people and locations, but the themes and texture of a being trapped in a haunted Victorian city. The idea of a massive class and economic disparity and Victorian sensibilities is NECESSARY for playing thieves and bravos and assassins to land as roguish underdogs and victims of circumstance and not as psychopathic creeps. The idea of a bottled-up, inescapable city is NECESSARY for the mechanical aspects of constantly mounting pressure from other gangs and from authorities to function and to prevent players from just running away from consequences. The idea of a haunted city where ghosts are a public health crisis is NECESSARY to balance out murder as a solution to every problem, with the massive consequences that making a corpse brings down. Together, these things produce a unique experience of playing scrappy anti-heros or charming villains who are punching up in the midst of constantly mounting pressure that WILL explode into a dramatic climax at some point 10-ish sessions in.
Sure, you could excise Blade's mechanics and apply them in D&D, but you would have to scrub out a lot of what makes the game good to just slot them into D&D, and just straight up give up on a lot of the most interesting parts. I think what people are really saying when they say "If you want to do a heist you should play Blades," is "If you want to do a CAMPAIGN about heists, you should START A NEW CAMPAIGN using Blades."
I think you need buy in from everyone, GM included, to play a new system on its own terms, at least at first, instead of treating it like an add-on for another game out of the box. Blades is a fully detailed system, not a supplement, and it has its own mechanisms at work that are going to stop ticking if you decide to start pulling pieces of the clockwork out under the notion that they're ornamental.
I agree that no good system I've used is truly agnostic. For BitD, it's actually easier to take the IDEAS that it puts forth about its mechanics than it is to rip the literal mechanics without starting from the ground up. I think that's why BiTD hacks can work, but trying to put parts of BitD into other games requires a lot of tinkering. Genesys, the "setting-agnostic" system mentioned in this video, still has unique themes and goals. It works best for pulp heroes with odds against them, and it endeavors to make "movie moments" instead of deadly or tactical scenes. Thankfully it's absolutely wonderful at what it does, but as you point out, it would be extremely difficult to just slot parts of it into other games.
I love this so much because it gets me excited to try more other games, while also being ok with liking D&D!
If only there was a fun, well run ttrpg campaign using Genasys, to watch as an example for us viewers...
Wait, is there?
@@TheJackOfFools Highly recommend Campaign: Skyjacks. It's a good demonstration of Genesys.
Dang, popping off these videos like crazy! What a good week
Was Zee (sp?) reading the same Blades in the Dark book as I was? The vast majority of the book is about running the game. The setting material is only really the latter one-third of the book. The sections on running a heist "the Score" and "Running the Game" are clearly marked in the table of contents. I feel like most of the book is about teaching how play works and the game principles.
I LOVE this! I hope future “games you may like” videos will include a “main mechanic” breakdown like this.
It sounds like a lot of the agency in your warhammer dice system is taken out of the player's hands and put into the GM's. It lets the DM be creative in interpreting the results, but where a game like D&D might let the player say "I'm going to throw dirt in the minotaur's eyes and then kick him in the balls", it sounds like the player just goes "ok here's my dice roll to fight the minotaur, now GM tell me how I did".
I know Matt prefers scripting his videos, but I really enjoyed this more free-form one. It took me back to the earlier videos, which, granted, were a bit rambly, but had their own charm over the strictly scripted ones (which I love too).
Regarding the subject - take what you love and put it in your game. I took the "partial success" idea of Dungeon World / BitD and my skill checks and saving throws now have two DCs, ie. "18/12" - the first one is a success, the second one still mostly succeeds, but with consequences. It's a great way to put some shades of gray into the narrative, especially if other players help with their own ideas (to screw the player making the check).
I love this video. You did a great job explaining how we could use these dice. I now want these dice to use in skill encounters or some great cinematic events.
This is so spot on! You can play just about any type of game in any system but the Mechanics and the System will influence that gameplay so you might as well use a system that aids the gameplay you want. Also, I love LOVE that you are talking about this system. I am a big fan of FFG’s SW & Genesys systems and played many hundreds of hours in it. The main difference is the dice system has been refined and improved to be a little less noodley but still presents exactly as you say in feel and potential execution. One of the only systems that aids in Narrative play through the system, not just the creativity of the players & narrator. Love it Matt! Thanks for the Vid!
Mr. Colville, I love how you run the game! I just watched Dusk #6 and I am completely enchanted. I especially liked the part when Dael said "I have been Colvilled." That being said, I want to stress as a DM myself that it doesnt matter what system you run, it matters how you run it. Like you I have many rulesets coursing thru my brain .. Blades in the Dark, OSE, DCC, CoC, Dungeon World, D&D .. My take-away here is that as a DM, the Player Agency is the Core. And the players inform the world. But it all plays out into a scenario sculpted by the DM. You have a Masterful grasp of interactive story-telling, Inspirational.
You is pumping out videos like a hero lately! How amazing! Thank you, my guru.
Loving these videos with Matt's incredibly articulate way of exploring complex topics.
As always, your timing is impeccable, after about two years of solely dnd my group is branching out into blades in the dark, eclipse phase, monster of the week, and a few others. Your videos always come right when i need them
I like the concept of using the dice you showcased for skill challenges outside of combat for sure.
I’m definitely going to try that system for a One Shot, not the setting, but I do love the sight of all those dice
Yes! Mechanics are so important for tone, and it's weird how some people don't get that.
I remember before Discord took off I was in a Skype-based ttrpg group where the dm was wanting help building a lovecraftian themed rpg. Being creative and supportive, everyone pitched him ideas and helped him work through it and it was cool. It was kind of like Collabris where he would propose some ideas, collect feedback, and gather ideas up to refine and tinker with to make into a bigger project he was in charge of.
But when he was trying to get us thinking about what different abilities could do and class concepts and such, I asked him where he thought the game would land between Bloodborne and Call of Cthulhu, and he said something like "I don't actually think that matters much". I know the guy wasn't dumb by any means, but that response had me at a loss.
I don't have contact with them anymore cuz I quit Skype ages ago, but I hope he found this video.
He was really keen on game design and seemed really hooked into the rpg space, so hopefully this video found it's way to him, to better explain that idea than I did at the time.
This dice system is amazing for solo RPing. They really help to create the emergent story that comes up between the players and GM.
My favorite thing is Adventures in Middle Earth because it’s relatable, still being 5e, but introduces many game changing rules that help you play in a different way, leaning more towards exploration fitting for being in middle earth. I wish more things existed like it.
This was really interesting to hear. Also, dope to see Lindz' shirt!
Totally agree, for example I really love traveller setting, space is cool. but the most unique thing is creation of character - there you have to roll on flow charts and determine what happened previously and how you met other party members.
Always pumped to see a new video from you and I'm loving how often that is lately
One of my favorite game mechanics, which I found in VtM 5e but since transplanted onto Call of Cthulhu, is succeeding at cost. If a player narrowly misses a roll, I (as GM) offer them a reroll or a success, but tell them that there will be a roleplay price. My players reacted very strongly to this idea. The examples from the video remind me of those.
I played a lot of games during the years with different systems, one of the best I've tried is the one used on Heavy Gear from Dream Pod 9. The amout of dice you threw (d8 I think) were your skill level, you keep the higher one and then you add (or substract) your attribute (usually +1 or +2 for your main ones). In the end the most important thing on a test was that you were trained, but being naturally disposed also helped
I missed waking up to your videos like that... now I'll be expecting them and that's on you!
Great video as always!
There's a Leverage RPG powered by Cortex Plus. The gist of the game is that the heist involves a location with some predetermined obstacles inside (traps, enemies, locks, etc). The game play is basically scouting the target, identifying those threats, preparing for those threats, then entering the location with all of your preparations in play. I think Leverage itself messes with the sequence of these, so some of the preperation happens in flashback, just-in-time as an obstacle is encountered. There's an essay in the Cortex Plus Hackers Guide called "A Dungeon Crawl Is Just a Poorly Planned Heist" that talks about how heist stories and dungeon crawl stories can be combined somewhat to improve both.
I'm so glad to hear your opinion about dice pool games!
I played AD&D as a kid, was away from games, then as an adult got introduced to Vampire: the Masquerade, and fell in love with the setting and the system. I've been away from RPGs for another while now, so my thoughts about this are no longer fresh. But! I think a big part of my love for the setting came from the great group I was playing with (After being away from that group and getting reintroduced to D&D5e later I went on a minor buying spree of WhiteWolf/OnyxPath games, but I don't think I would be able to make it work on my own). I also became somewhat obsessed with the idea of the dice pool in RPGs. I never tried any other pool systems, but a big part of my enjoyment of Vampire was the system (I think it was revised ed. we were playing). There is something really viscerally satisfying about building and then rolling a big pool of dice. Returning to D&D felt stingy with only the single D20. The Vampire (revised) rules seemed (to me) to be a lot simpler than the Warhammer/Genesys system you were discussing here (mostly just counting successes/failures). So, it might occupy a nice middle ground between D20 and Genesys. You get the nice chunky feel of rolling a big pool without the complexity of trying to work out all the different pools and facings (although I can see why you might like that complexity here).
I'm excited that you are encouraging exploration of other games. When 5e exploded onto the scene (that was when I got reintroduced to gaming again, and then went on my buying spree), I was excited for other games to get popular too and start appearing on the shelf in any appreciable way (in the way that D&D became so mainstream). But that never really seemed to happen, so it's exciting to see what kind of conversation you can get started. I had also been following your channel hoping for a dice pool video, so it's exciting to see one now! (This was a while back so I apologize if you have actually posted other videos about that in the interim).
The nice thing with system now is the dice apps that make getting to the overall result faster, and really lets the narrative structure shine.