best parts of 40k are the stories, scenarios and lore created by fellow players and enthusiasts. GW canon isn't terrible, I enjoy a decent sampling of their novels but I was introduced to the game in 3rd edition as a teen and the codices, magazines etc all encouraged creativity. Your army was "your dudes" in the big scary universe. My personal stance on some of the big lore decisions they've made over the years has kind of softened (in particular primaris lore) but I don't really feel like they've done anything so catastrophic as to truly ruin the setting. It's still a delightfully miserable slaughterhouse setting for modeling and dice rolling.
On the bright side, for collectors of Firstborn marines, independent 3d artists have created stunning rescaled versions of classic models. Or upgrades to rescale original minis to the correct size. 3d printers have somewhat softened the blow for me.
I have to disagree. Astartes is super cool yes and the vibes sre there. But it IS NOT a good starting point. I do not think there is enough lore. Even talking. The Marines are a custom chapter so you can't search em up super easily. There isn't much to really latch onto despite its wicked baddness
What a hidden gem of a video. As a new fan of WH40k, I’ve seen more of the glory of 40k rather than the utter despair of it. Hard to understand the horrors of the 40k world through the perspective of an ultramarine with plot armor from the emperor himself. The idea of space marines sound great on paper, but they rarely depict them for what they truly are. Often in games we see them almost more as superheroes rather then augmented freaks in battle armor. I was introduced to 40k through SM2. I loved the power role of a space marine but I also wanted to see what makes the rubricon surgery so dangerous and painful. I also felt like the prolouge depicted a squad of marines more accurately than gadriel and chairon. The prolouge felt truly like 40k, a hopeless last stand against the tyranids around your fallen brothers. Dying in glory. Just for Titus to all of a sudden be saved and become a primaris in plot armor timing. That’s why I could relate to this video so well. people misstake these sort of videos like whining cries when in reality it’s concerned older fans that don’t want to see 40k turn in to star wars. I hope you make some more videos in the future similar to this one🙏🏻
If that last stand happened 16 years ago in the lore, Calgar would've showed up in time to watch Titus die. The whole point of grim dark is that it's dark, and it's up to you to see a silver lining if there is any to be seen. The lore has changed to something very formulaic, but that's also how they keep characters alive to be sold. It's a double edged sword. Yeah the end where he is saved last minute isn't grim or dark, but also they gotta make money off the model and they can't do that if he's dead.
@ Look I obviously understood that Titus wasn’t going to die 5 minute in to the game😂. But it just felt like the stakes faded as the game progressed. There was like 1 ”significant” death which was Chairon’s buddy. But we barely knew him. I think Titus’s squad should’ve been bigger and we gradually lose members. But I get why he has plot armor.
I joined the space during the last months of 9th edition. I like Primaris looks and their scale. As I have been reading lore and books since I've come to accept just how harmful their introduction has been to the setting. As they currently exist they are an anathema to the established lore, and i have to wish they had been just a range refresh with the introduction of 8th edition. The ultra marines primarch returns, and a new mark of armor is created. Thats it.
@NEGAProductions24 i simply do not agree. They fit into the lore just fine, and I am old school. People objecting to the change are the kind that complain about everything.
I think our cultural decay made it almost impossible to maintain such a creative endeavor. Now that they are pulling back the veil on the massive universe using concepts such as reintroducing legends , more clearly defining what used to be the insubstantial such as the chaos gods, and giving alien races like Necrons a more relatable human pov (like Trazyn) just to name a few, the 40k universe just feels a lot smaller and kind of takes away a lot of the imagining that was left up to the reader
As a new fan of 40k. Started reading books this summer. Currently reading Fall of Cadia (which i love so far), this was a very interesting video. thank you. Got yourself a sub.
This is a shockingly nuanced and level-headed video considering the title. As an American, I totally see where you’re coming from for the changes to the setting being an attempt to appeal to American sensibilities.
I got into the game in the tail end of third when my black templar army used the 3rd edition codex before the 4th edition codex came out. I have over 50 tactial marines and about as many of different first born varieties. I still play with all of them. Because im not a tourney player.
if you dont spend time thinking about if your hobby sucks, youll find you end up enjoying it more. a lot of the salty people in warhammer are essentially the same as the grumpy ones in any franchise. and 80% of em are people who view their hobby through rosetinted glasses of their childhood. not realising their childhood is the main reason they found it more enjoyable. They find one section/game of something and say everything else is bad. you see this in star wars, fallout, elder scrolls, pokemon, demon souls, battlefield games, call of duty etc. i personally like to use fallout as an example, cause its the perfect example of this. fallout 4 is the largest, most played, most loved out of all the fallout games. it has the most content and give you more exploration and ability to mod it. however online it sounds like its the worst game of em all. its not, its just different. and it does so many things better than fall out new vegas. i played new vegas as a kid, i loved it. some things it does really really well, but generally its awefull to play compared to fallout 4. lately fallout 1 and 2 have come out of the woodworks as fantastic games and everything after is shit. its not. i played em both, theyre some of THE most janky games you can ever play. and this is cause fallout is an old franchise, and the grumpiest saltiest people are the people who played the game they love, as a kid. im not saying there arent any flaws with warhammer, but most of the hate it gets stems from 2 things, hate for GW(understandable) and people who want to relive their childhood.
There are obvious issues of warhammer, but that applies to everything else. it will never be perfect. but lately it finally starting moving with the return of the primarch. the lore felt stale and pointless as they never moved on. now it doesnt. i personally like the scattered writings of the lore. and how its different. its both lore accurate and feels like youre an archeologist, discovering something. the retellings of some books are odd n inaccurate. just like real life history. the setting of warhammer is that the management is inept and full of bureucracy. and so are many of the books of warhammer. lore accurate. i do agree with the americanification of it though.
As someone who has been in the hobby for years, it's unfortunately a bit late for that. One of the big and continued problems has been the "Horus Heresy effect". While HH is a great introduction for new people to some aspects of the IP, it's all too often forgotten, by both fans and GW, that unlike 40k proper, which is a setting first and foremost, HH is a narrative. This is a pivotal distinction that trickles down into every aspect of 40k. 40k is a framework in which stories can be built inside. When you transition it into a narrative, in and of itself as GW has been doing, that frameworks begins to bend and break, effectively erasing it's identity. In a similar vein, it focuses the scale IP on only a sliver of the setting at the cost of the rest of it (returning Primarchs are a great example of this as they essentially function as black holes of attention). This boils down a literal galaxy into only handful of endlessly reoccurring characters, places, and elements. 40k is already about 25-50% down the path to having its own End Times event and subsequent AoS-style "sequel". If you're genuinely interested in the hobby or Warhammer in general, then I highly recommend reading up on the murder of Fantasy. It may seem disconnected at first, but GW's murder of Fantasy the proverbial canary in the coalmine and the definitive turning point for GW on it's path to becoming the spiteful, uncaring, and profit-obsessed "steward" of two of the most influential IPs in fictions that it is today.
@@spnked9516 As a new fan who started with the Heresy as my entry point, which was good for me, I suppose. Loved the first 4 books, then Fulgrim just did not work. Guess primarchs are not my thing. Horus as a singular worked perfectly in the first four books, and in those the rest of the primarchs just seem like generals or something. Also read the first couple of books of the Siege of Terra. Sanguinius flying with wings. Ah.. Guess I am more an guardsman sort of person, so the development with returning primarchs. A bit worrisome for me, though I have tons of older novels to explore anyhow. Currently reading Fall of Cadia, which is just perfect for me so far. Guess it is sort of a novelization of the codex something regarding the fall of Cadia. Rath.
@@kahinaloren Black Library stuff usually ranges from "this is a solid standalone story" to "this is absolutely catastrophic for 40k", but more importantly, they highlight the problem I talked about nicely. There's a massive catalogue of 40k (HH included) books, and 90% are space marine center bolter slop. For every Infinite and the Divine, Prophet of the Waaagh, or Day of Ascension, you get ten terrible marine books nobody but the hardest of chapter simps asked for or some Imperium centered book that breaks the setting (Fall of Cadia falls into this category, along with things like the Dark Imperium trilogy). And this isn't to say their aren't good marine or Imperium focused books (Bile's trilogy is solid - but it does do one or two things that are bad for the setting as whole -, same with Gaunt's Ghosts or Ciaphas Cain series), it's more to emphasize that there's a detrimental focus a limited number of things and a desire to push an overarching narrative regardless of its consequences. Seriously. It's hard to properly convey just how catastrophic many of the changes/additions to the setting have been since GW vomited out Primaris marines.
@@spnked9516 I am new, and mostly interested in the novels, though have been watching quite a few Luetin (almost wrote Luthien) vids as well. Guess the appeal to me is the setting. How people respond to the grimdark. Not American, but I do like that desperate last stand against hopeless odds. It is an old anglo-saxon or germanic thing. We might lose, but let us go out so the Emperor will remember us. Tolkien stuff, and earnest. Which might be "new" 40k, with of course a tinge of satire, but satire certainly not dominating. As for Fall of Cadia, the book itself - well the first half is just good drama, with dramatic irony a plenty as you know the planet will fall. So well written stuff I thought, but I have heard the latter parts are "problematic". Anyhow, I am probably just a "tourist". Though a tourist some 10 novels in, but I guess in 40k that is still a tourist :) I am mostly a Tolkien fan. THere is so much value to the unexplored vistas that gives depth. Then again, I am mostly interested now in the Silmarillion and the philosophical and theological points adressed there. I guess to put it this way: I would be far more interested in some random adventure with a rogue trader in some random far off sector, than in the next primarch returning or the recurring adventures of Roboute Guilliman. I guess I love the setting in general, and is not interested in a Marvel like Avengers cast limiting the sandbox. Which is why the role of the 18 primarchs annoyed me in Siege of Terra and HH from fulgrim on.
Not really. See what food and brands you pick, then buy off those and see why you’ve stuck with your tastes. What is making things worse is progressive: for everyone or no one. Remember 4Kids with cartoons, the censorship of comics in the 80’s and pokemon. Same people pushing that grew up in the 1920’s where every candidate was a progressive. See Rothbards: progressive era.
@@Writkin bro. “we need to enforce ESG to change behaviors.” -last decade when games declined. And Obamas: pay people for diversity. Like, we all know the issue and it isn’t ‘they want to make bucks.’ As Stellar blade showed, as opposed to Concord, Dustborn and so on.
@@silent_stalker3687 Holy shit you are fully brainrotted by the rich. How the fuck does "ESG" being the decline of gaming make more sense to you than publishers wanting to maximize their profit with smaller teams, shorter delivery dates and over promising?
best parts of 40k are the stories, scenarios and lore created by fellow players and enthusiasts. GW canon isn't terrible, I enjoy a decent sampling of their novels but I was introduced to the game in 3rd edition as a teen and the codices, magazines etc all encouraged creativity. Your army was "your dudes" in the big scary universe. My personal stance on some of the big lore decisions they've made over the years has kind of softened (in particular primaris lore) but I don't really feel like they've done anything so catastrophic as to truly ruin the setting. It's still a delightfully miserable slaughterhouse setting for modeling and dice rolling.
To me I don't mind the lore changing, the return of the primarchs are wasome but warhammer needs to still be grimdark. Great video
On the bright side, for collectors of Firstborn marines, independent 3d artists have created stunning rescaled versions of classic models. Or upgrades to rescale original minis to the correct size. 3d printers have somewhat softened the blow for me.
7:59 In my opinion the Astartes Project by Syama Pedersen is a great starting point get a feel and vibe of the 40k universe.
It was the reason i got in to the setting.
Good vid btw keep up the great work!
I have to disagree. Astartes is super cool yes and the vibes sre there. But it IS NOT a good starting point.
I do not think there is enough lore. Even talking. The Marines are a custom chapter so you can't search em up super easily. There isn't much to really latch onto despite its wicked baddness
What a hidden gem of a video.
As a new fan of WH40k, I’ve seen more of the glory of 40k rather than the utter despair of it.
Hard to understand the horrors of the 40k world through the perspective of an ultramarine with plot armor from the emperor himself. The idea of space marines sound great on paper, but they rarely depict them for what they truly are. Often in games we see them almost more as superheroes rather then augmented freaks in battle armor.
I was introduced to 40k through SM2. I loved the power role of a space marine but I also wanted to see what makes the rubricon surgery so dangerous and painful. I also felt like the prolouge depicted a squad of marines more accurately than gadriel and chairon. The prolouge felt truly like 40k, a hopeless last stand against the tyranids around your fallen brothers. Dying in glory. Just for Titus to all of a sudden be saved and become a primaris in plot armor timing.
That’s why I could relate to this video so well. people misstake these sort of videos like whining cries when in reality it’s concerned older fans that don’t want to see 40k turn in to star wars. I hope you make some more videos in the future similar to this one🙏🏻
If that last stand happened 16 years ago in the lore, Calgar would've showed up in time to watch Titus die. The whole point of grim dark is that it's dark, and it's up to you to see a silver lining if there is any to be seen. The lore has changed to something very formulaic, but that's also how they keep characters alive to be sold. It's a double edged sword. Yeah the end where he is saved last minute isn't grim or dark, but also they gotta make money off the model and they can't do that if he's dead.
@ Look I obviously understood that Titus wasn’t going to die 5 minute in to the game😂. But it just felt like the stakes faded as the game progressed. There was like 1 ”significant” death which was Chairon’s buddy. But we barely knew him. I think Titus’s squad should’ve been bigger and we gradually lose members. But I get why he has plot armor.
I joined the space during the last months of 9th edition. I like Primaris looks and their scale. As I have been reading lore and books since I've come to accept just how harmful their introduction has been to the setting. As they currently exist they are an anathema to the established lore, and i have to wish they had been just a range refresh with the introduction of 8th edition. The ultra marines primarch returns, and a new mark of armor is created. Thats it.
It wouldn't be GW if their grandiose idea didn't end up a colossal disaster that could easily have been prevented.
@NEGAProductions24 i simply do not agree. They fit into the lore just fine, and I am old school. People objecting to the change are the kind that complain about everything.
I think our cultural decay made it almost impossible to maintain such a creative endeavor.
Now that they are pulling back the veil on the massive universe using concepts such as reintroducing legends , more clearly defining what used to be the insubstantial such as the chaos gods, and giving alien races like Necrons a more relatable human pov (like Trazyn) just to name a few, the 40k universe just feels a lot smaller and kind of takes away a lot of the imagining that was left up to the reader
As a new fan of 40k. Started reading books this summer. Currently reading Fall of Cadia (which i love so far), this was a very interesting video. thank you. Got yourself a sub.
That's awesome. There are some really great authors in 40k and Robert Rath, who wrote Fall of Cadia, is DEFINITELY one of them.
For covid references. I am Norwegicus.
Phenomenal video. Kudos. Definitely earned a sub.
I loved this vid, go to check out the rest of your vids and got sucker punched by the CoC focus lol
I wondered if this would happen, lol. I'm one of the staff that works on CoC2. A lot of us like 40k.
This is a shockingly nuanced and level-headed video considering the title.
As an American, I totally see where you’re coming from for the changes to the setting being an attempt to appeal to American sensibilities.
Always surreal when two of your unrelated hobbies intersect in an unexpected way like this.
You probably wouldn't be surprised to find out a lot of us are 40k nerds.
No
I got into the game in the tail end of third when my black templar army used the 3rd edition codex before the 4th edition codex came out. I have over 50 tactial marines and about as many of different first born varieties. I still play with all of them. Because im not a tourney player.
Good on ya. At the end of the day, the entire setting was created so that we could pit our miniatures against each other for fun.
if you dont spend time thinking about if your hobby sucks, youll find you end up enjoying it more. a lot of the salty people in warhammer are essentially the same as the grumpy ones in any franchise. and 80% of em are people who view their hobby through rosetinted glasses of their childhood. not realising their childhood is the main reason they found it more enjoyable.
They find one section/game of something and say everything else is bad. you see this in star wars, fallout, elder scrolls, pokemon, demon souls, battlefield games, call of duty etc.
i personally like to use fallout as an example, cause its the perfect example of this. fallout 4 is the largest, most played, most loved out of all the fallout games. it has the most content and give you more exploration and ability to mod it.
however online it sounds like its the worst game of em all. its not, its just different. and it does so many things better than fall out new vegas. i played new vegas as a kid, i loved it. some things it does really really well, but generally its awefull to play compared to fallout 4.
lately fallout 1 and 2 have come out of the woodworks as fantastic games and everything after is shit. its not. i played em both, theyre some of THE most janky games you can ever play.
and this is cause fallout is an old franchise, and the grumpiest saltiest people are the people who played the game they love, as a kid.
im not saying there arent any flaws with warhammer, but most of the hate it gets stems from 2 things, hate for GW(understandable) and people who want to relive their childhood.
There are obvious issues of warhammer, but that applies to everything else. it will never be perfect. but lately it finally starting moving with the return of the primarch. the lore felt stale and pointless as they never moved on. now it doesnt. i personally like the scattered writings of the lore. and how its different.
its both lore accurate and feels like youre an archeologist, discovering something.
the retellings of some books are odd n inaccurate. just like real life history. the setting of warhammer is that the management is inept and full of bureucracy. and so are many of the books of warhammer. lore accurate.
i do agree with the americanification of it though.
I just got into WH40K and loving all the lore and all the game play, it would suck to see it all go downhill
As someone who has been in the hobby for years, it's unfortunately a bit late for that.
One of the big and continued problems has been the "Horus Heresy effect". While HH is a great introduction for new people to some aspects of the IP, it's all too often forgotten, by both fans and GW, that unlike 40k proper, which is a setting first and foremost, HH is a narrative.
This is a pivotal distinction that trickles down into every aspect of 40k. 40k is a framework in which stories can be built inside. When you transition it into a narrative, in and of itself as GW has been doing, that frameworks begins to bend and break, effectively erasing it's identity. In a similar vein, it focuses the scale IP on only a sliver of the setting at the cost of the rest of it (returning Primarchs are a great example of this as they essentially function as black holes of attention). This boils down a literal galaxy into only handful of endlessly reoccurring characters, places, and elements.
40k is already about 25-50% down the path to having its own End Times event and subsequent AoS-style "sequel". If you're genuinely interested in the hobby or Warhammer in general, then I highly recommend reading up on the murder of Fantasy. It may seem disconnected at first, but GW's murder of Fantasy the proverbial canary in the coalmine and the definitive turning point for GW on it's path to becoming the spiteful, uncaring, and profit-obsessed "steward" of two of the most influential IPs in fictions that it is today.
@@spnked9516 As a new fan who started with the Heresy as my entry point, which was good for me, I suppose. Loved the first 4 books, then Fulgrim just did not work. Guess primarchs are not my thing. Horus as a singular worked perfectly in the first four books, and in those the rest of the primarchs just seem like generals or something. Also read the first couple of books of the Siege of Terra. Sanguinius flying with wings. Ah.. Guess I am more an guardsman sort of person, so the development with returning primarchs. A bit worrisome for me, though I have tons of older novels to explore anyhow. Currently reading Fall of Cadia, which is just perfect for me so far. Guess it is sort of a novelization of the codex something regarding the fall of Cadia. Rath.
@@kahinaloren Black Library stuff usually ranges from "this is a solid standalone story" to "this is absolutely catastrophic for 40k", but more importantly, they highlight the problem I talked about nicely. There's a massive catalogue of 40k (HH included) books, and 90% are space marine center bolter slop.
For every Infinite and the Divine, Prophet of the Waaagh, or Day of Ascension, you get ten terrible marine books nobody but the hardest of chapter simps asked for or some Imperium centered book that breaks the setting (Fall of Cadia falls into this category, along with things like the Dark Imperium trilogy). And this isn't to say their aren't good marine or Imperium focused books (Bile's trilogy is solid - but it does do one or two things that are bad for the setting as whole -, same with Gaunt's Ghosts or Ciaphas Cain series), it's more to emphasize that there's a detrimental focus a limited number of things and a desire to push an overarching narrative regardless of its consequences.
Seriously. It's hard to properly convey just how catastrophic many of the changes/additions to the setting have been since GW vomited out Primaris marines.
@@spnked9516 I am new, and mostly interested in the novels, though have been watching quite a few Luetin (almost wrote Luthien) vids as well. Guess the appeal to me is the setting. How people respond to the grimdark. Not American, but I do like that desperate last stand against hopeless odds. It is an old anglo-saxon or germanic thing. We might lose, but let us go out so the Emperor will remember us. Tolkien stuff, and earnest. Which might be "new" 40k, with of course a tinge of satire, but satire certainly not dominating. As for Fall of Cadia, the book itself - well the first half is just good drama, with dramatic irony a plenty as you know the planet will fall. So well written stuff I thought, but I have heard the latter parts are "problematic". Anyhow, I am probably just a "tourist". Though a tourist some 10 novels in, but I guess in 40k that is still a tourist :) I am mostly a Tolkien fan. THere is so much value to the unexplored vistas that gives depth. Then again, I am mostly interested now in the Silmarillion and the philosophical and theological points adressed there. I guess to put it this way: I would be far more interested in some random adventure with a rogue trader in some random far off sector, than in the next primarch returning or the recurring adventures of Roboute Guilliman. I guess I love the setting in general, and is not interested in a Marvel like Avengers cast limiting the sandbox. Which is why the role of the 18 primarchs annoyed me in Siege of Terra and HH from fulgrim on.
If you love it, keep loving it.
Yes, yes it has gotten far worse. The new lore is trash.
You must be new to capitalism. Yes. Everything gets worse so it can be sold. Hope this helps!
Not really.
See what food and brands you pick, then buy off those and see why you’ve stuck with your tastes.
What is making things worse is progressive: for everyone or no one.
Remember 4Kids with cartoons, the censorship of comics in the 80’s and pokemon.
Same people pushing that grew up in the 1920’s where every candidate was a progressive.
See Rothbards: progressive era.
@@silent_stalker3687 This is literal nonsense. EAT BRAND REMEMBER CARTOON? ROTHBARDS ROTHBARDS ROTHBARDS.
@@Writkin bro.
“we need to enforce ESG to change behaviors.”
-last decade when games declined.
And Obamas: pay people for diversity.
Like, we all know the issue and it isn’t ‘they want to make bucks.’
As Stellar blade showed, as opposed to Concord, Dustborn and so on.
@@silent_stalker3687 Holy shit you are fully brainrotted by the rich. How the fuck does "ESG" being the decline of gaming make more sense to you than publishers wanting to maximize their profit with smaller teams, shorter delivery dates and over promising?
He doesn't say that though in many ways it was better for him now than then