I found a DSS-1 online as a local pick up for 80 dollars. The owner had no disks either. I spotted it, and did a quick internet search to see what it was, and decided to jump on it. When I got it home I was able to draw a wave form and it played. Then i discovered the disk drive was bad, so I replaced it. Now it works really well. It took me a while to understand what it is. Yes, it is a sampler. But it really is more like a rompler you put your own waves into. I have not really found a use for it in what I like to do sound wise. I waver on whether to keep it or sell it. It's just so huge! It weighs almost 40 pounds too. I may have to dig into it again and see what it can do. Seems like an ideal pad monster.
That pretty much sums it up - it's so massive and so complex. The Synth City sounds really show how great this machine is - with the dual delays and rich bottom end, it is an absolute pad monster. Worth keeping just for that alone.
Thanks so much for putting a light on these really great synthesizers! HISTORY. I bought BOTH of these in 1986 and used them LIVE in my 80ies career rock band. It was really a challenge waiting for the disc drive to load the samples LIVE. So, our front man who would create our set lists would work with me on which spaces between tunes he would have to talk to the audience so I could load for the next song! After a while, it all worked out wonderfully. I took both with me to LA when we recorded our first album. Our producer's keyboardist brought his rack of gear to our session for me to use. All kinds of things from back in the day were in that rack including a pair of Yamaha TX81-Zs ! It was so 'fat' and the sound of them combined with other modules was incredible!, I had to SAMPLE his rack for my use live, and so, I did, using the DSS-1 ! I STILL have both of these boards nearly 40 years later, and last time I checked, the DW-8000's ORIGINAL memory battery STILL has all of my original programs on it which is amazing! So, there you go. Sill in my collection, bought NEW, is a vintage Korg MS-20 with SQ-10 sequencer AND a Yamaha CS-60 which I paid $2400 back in 1979 ! A pair of MS-20ies were in my live rig for a number of years along with a new Poly 6, but the CS-60 was a bedroom piece, so, it is still like brand new. Thanks again! 👍
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams We were the original 'Vice'. If you follow top metal singers and guitarists, you know the names Chris Impellitteri and Rob Rock. You can find a VERY early live concert video of us covering Tom Sawyer (Rush). There is also a 20 year reunion concert club event as well. The Rush cover shows the MS-20 with the Poly 6 both in up front use in the mix, this was recorded by a fan with a big VHS camera! The reunion date has DW-8000, an old Hammond XK-2 (yuk) with a real Leslie 330 I bought back in 1976! Also a Korg MS-2000-B and an old E-MU orchestra keyboard under it on the stage right rack. Too much to say about all this here, but, just search - 'Vice Reunion Rob Rock' and there are a bunch of good things there and should all be in some type of order. I think the Rush tune is last?, you may want to start there. The sound for the Reunion 2005 was recorded LIVE direct to Pro Tools on a PC by a hired tech, and was later mixed down in FL. I was always a programmer nut going back to my first synth (Korg Maxi Korg) back in '75. So if you listen to Last In Line, you will here the strings and brass programing I did on the DW-8k. AND, hear the power of Rob's voice which he still has to this day!! Our drummer brought out his old and HUGE 80ies kit which he had not played in years. You can see that SAME set in use for the Rush tune 20 years early ((O: We were trying to re-create what we looked like back in the day. Enjoy. Keep in mind, all that video was recorded on a few TAPE cameras, so no 16:9 aspect ratios OR digital back in those days.
Fantastic as always Johnny! Let's hope Rob @ Retroaktiv follws through with his DSS-P controller for the DSS-1. It is such an incredible sounding synthesizer! To no surprise, it is really only held back by the archaic OS/UI as you mentioned. Rob's controller design was going to solve many of the drawbacks and the limited storage issues by having a full knob per function control surface and a substantial bank of digital and analog samples stored on modern flash memory.
That would be incredible’ I’ve always thought the DSS-1 had one of the best filters and synth architectures for a hybrid. But of course its UI is so bad I had to get rid of it!
Guys, I've spoken to Rob @ Retroaktiv and gotten an update on the DSS-P controller. Due to issues with the original CPU choice, he was forced to make design changes that included using a different CPU entirely, as well as the flash memory, led controller, etc. As a result, they were forced to rewrite much of the code for the controller. However, the project is still in progress and nearing completion. We will likely see some units start shipping this year. Long live the DSS-1!
Great documentary! I absolutely love my DSS1, one of the most underrated polysynths in the world. Two things I think weren't mentioned... 1) when you hand draw a waveform, the DSS makes 8 (iirc) different versions at different frequencies, and then distributes them in the keyboard automatically. That gives you very clear highs and round lows. 2) the VCF have two modes, 12 and 24 dB/oct and they sound VERY different... very much like on the Jupiter-8. In fact I think the 12dB/oct is my favourite.
Hey @jun06 - thanks for that extra info. I didn't know that about the draw waveform - pretty cool actually. Yes - ad the filter - I should have mentioned the 2 modes for sure. Totally agree on the DSS-1 - it is amazing and totally a sleeper cult synth.
Yes, while writing a software synth I realized -12dB/oct cutoff is criminally underrated. With almost any sound it's worth considering from bass to brass to string. I think the OB-X only has -12?
I miss my DishWasher 8000. Great synth. I worked at a Korg dealer back then, and we only got ONE DSS-1. It was very difficult to sell, I think it celebrated a birthday in our store.
The DSS1 was too expensive, too hard to use, and to top it off upstart Akai had already taken the lead with sampling. But the DSS1 gave birth to the Korg M1!
The DW-8000 and its little brother the DW-6000 are both criminally underrated. Some of my favorite synths ever, especially when paired with a Retroaktiv DW-8P
And to think people complain about menu diving today… imagine the frustration of having to program; save; listen … really speaks to the skills of our early digital musicians
Fun fact: the DW-8000's waveforms are on standard ROM chips in plain 8bit PCM. They're actually multisamples for several octaves, in a format easy to figure out. So if you know how to desolder a chip and use an eprom burner and a wave editor, it's relatively simple to put in custom waveforms.
@@jergervasi3331 Indeed, while you're at it. If you're feeling fancy, you can use eproms double the size, adapt the pinout (the difference is only 2 or 3 pins), wire a simple switch to the highest address pin, and that way get two banks of waveforms, switchable in realtime.
@@jergervasi3331 If you're feeling super fancy, use chips four times the size, adapt the pinout (it's a few more pins then, but doable), then use a 4-position 3-pole rotary switch (cheaply available), and wire two poles as a 2-bit encoder (quite easy) going to the two highest address pins, and remaining pole for LEDs. Voilà, four banks of waveforms switchable in realtime, with LED indication. The case and front panel have more than enough space for this.
Great video. I actually played a DW8000 at the Center For The Media Arts in NYC at a recording studio class. I played the bassline, chords, high strings and synth horns (think Prince) on it. Sounded great especially in 1990. One of my mentors owned the DSS1. I never got to use it. I didn't even know about the synthesizer built in until now 😮😮😮
The late 70s and early 80s sure did move fast- it was so exciting, polyphonic synthesis was was introduced in the late 70s and shortly afterwards patch memory! By the late 70s we had the first samplers- wow! Wavetable synths (like the DW series) came shortly afterwards, FM in the DX7! 40 years later, we're still using these same methods to make sounds, but due to advances in the underlying technology, cheaper, more powerful and in a more convenient form (such as plugins in DAWs).
Back in the 90s, before the internet was really big, I picked up a Korg DSS1 second hand that HAD the upgrade in it. It was absolutely one of my favorite synths of all time. I never used it as a sampler, really, since I had an E-MU that was much more capable. Unfortunately, I had to sell it to make rent, still not realizing it was such a rare item. Recently, though, I picked up a DSS-1 that has the more recent Straylight mod, and it is just absolutely phenomenal! You can get those DW8000 type sounds, but also so much more with the synthesis options. It is a sleeper classic.
Still have my Dw8000 with modifications for dual voice and expanded memory, Dss1 with expanded sample memory, internal usb thumb drives replacing floppy discs, And my DSM1 all still in service. Never regretted their purchase. And they are in my studio lovingly used. Thank you for your video.
Great video and aweseome collection of musicians actually playing these instruments. The DW8000 was my first synth I owned, bought new in the year it was released. I recently made it more usable in my setup by implanting an arduino based translation logic from midi cc commands to the original SysEx commands. So it is now possible to remotely control values like VCF cutoff and resonance using a simple midi controller.
Excellent overview of a overlooked gem, Johnny..! The DSS-1 used an "asynchronous" playback architecture. This means that the pitch of each voice was controlled by changing the playback sample rate. Samplers of that era that also used this system were the Fairlight CMI, the Synclavier II, Akai S-612 and the Sequential Prophet 2000, while other samplers used 'interpolation' to output voices at different pitches while keeping the system sample rate constant. These include the Ensoniq Mirage, all Roland and Akai from the S-950 on. These systems suffer from severe aliasing at the top of the keyboard, while the asynchronous systems cannot alias because the bandwidth of the system is always within the Nyquist limit (due to the variable sample rate). Question: Do the Korg DW-6000 and DW-8000 share the asynchronous architecture of the DSS-1?
Thanks for that info! I'll look into this for sure - it has me really interested an probably is partly the reason for the incredible low end as well. Very cool info @zmix. My thoughts are it probably is the same - I'll look at schematics to find out the similarities.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams The fact that the DSM-1 has non resonant filters makes me think that they were digital, and that they changed the playback architecture from the DSS-1 to a 'synchronus' system (much cheaper to manufacture, no VCF or VCAs and only 1 DAC multiplexed to produce the 16 outputs)
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams Yeah, and then Derek Sherinian had a Korg Trinity. Jordan Rudess used to use a Kurzweil K2600 for the longest time, but then the OASYS and now Kronos pulled him back to Korg!
Awesome - another one! Thanks Johnny, your documentaries are my favourite synthtube content. I’d been considering getting a DSM-1 to get the DW/DSS flavours - but now I see I’ve got more thinking to do. Hadn’t realized they’d cut it down like that!
Yeah - I mean it's still really cool, but it's basically more a sampler. Very similar to the E-mu - Emax. Although the additive/harmonic synth engine does have the 16 DW-8000 presets which is really cool - I forgot to mention that.
I'm a permanent sucker for DW8000 sonic palette. And even though i will not be buying it, one of the reasons I am looking forward to getting the modwave module this year is because it also offers DW8000 sound set. Great retrospective again Johnny Morgan, like your other featured synth videos nicely presented as a reference, and entertaining at the same time. Thank you!
I agree - DW8000 just has that sound - especially for synthwave. Yes - the new desktop / rack module of the modwave would be pretty awesome more reliable and cheaper than getting an old DW.
I enjoyed this video very much. I recently purchased a DSS-1 for cheap. I wish I would have had this synth growing up. My dad purchased a Roland S-50 back in the 80's and I loved it! But that was great as a sampler but not as a synth. The DSS-1 is definitely more of a synth.
For sure - the DSS-1 really is a synth where you can sample the oscillator cycles. That's where it shines. I love my S-50 though as well for other reasons.
I had the DSM-1, and trying to use the 16 outputs was either a nightmare or just plain impossible. The sampler was pretty nice and clean though, considering it's relatively low resolution (but better than the Mirage). Still, I got rid of it. Was pretty mad at myself for stupidly selling a Steinberger bass to buy it. I went to a studio not long after that had a DSS-1. It sounded great, but like our host said, it was gigantic! I wouldn't have had room for it. One interesting note: my DSM-1 came with a rarely seen set of yellow diskettes from KORG that had some amazing Collins and Bonham drum samples. I had the buyer extract the one-hit samples and put them on CD for me. I still use them to this day!
Wonderful Johnny. Its seems to be a lament. I feel a little sad now. I would never have thought that i would feel nostalgia for the digitals/hybrids. I so miss my esq1 though.
Hi Jay! Thanks for the message - yes we totally should catchup sometime soon. I love your videos and would be totally down for a zoom call if you have time. Al the best!
another superb mini l-doc . Thank you so much !! i have them both ant want to share a really cool trick . Set the oscillator pitch bend on the DW8K parameter 66 to a value of 0 . Then set parameter 67 to 1/on. Now, by using pitch bend information in your daw, you can sequence filter modulation. because it is pitch bend it uses NRPN for 16k resolution, allowing for super smooth filter modulation . you can draw in in your daw whatever complex shapes you want . The DSS-1 does the same thing by changing parameter, 61 to 0 and 62 to 1/on . dw6k : 71 to 0 and 72 to 1.
Great review, brings back a lot of memories. I was a bit of a 'RolandHead' throughout the 80's. The 6000, 8000 and DSS-1 were the only Korg machines I've ever owned (even to this day). Chose the DSS-1 over the Roland D-50 because it could sample & combine etc. etc...plus there were 3rd party D-50 sample disks, amongst others...Quite an innovative machine for its' time.
nice video - I love my DSS-1 (just did a live patch demo video) but sadly both of my DW-8000 units just died for no reason - they were great for a while everyone complains about analog synths needing repairing, but old digital stuff is also fragile and getting older every year :-(
The 40db boost on the DSS-1 sounds amazing on drums. Of course I got mine for beautiful pads and still have it in great condition with the original disk drive.
Discipline could hardly have come at a better moment. I was doing something that I do a lot to begin with, exploring trivia about different synthesizer builders and their chronology. This video definitely delve into the way that both of these instruments provide the bridge between unrelated Korg models, the Poly-800 and the M1. In January 2007, I was tempted to get a DWI-8000. The thing that got in my way was that I had to choose between it and the food I had to put on the table for that month. Such a drag; it wasn’t even that expensive either.
Thank you Johnny, assuming I don’t instead go for the DSS-1. I’ve got a microKorg XL which has 64 DW-8000 waveforms in it. It might not have its original filters, but I feel like it’s the next best thing.
The DSS-1 is a great synth/sampler. Only issues on mine are the buttons (I already purchased replacements) and the keyboard is really loud... oh and of course the whining display sound :) I even put a disk emulator in it and transferred all my disks to it many years ago with some PC software. Thanks! Will have to hook it up again soon.
What a brilliant video! I've got a 6000 and an 8000 and though the 6000 isn't a bad synth it feels basic in comparison to the 8000 which elevates the DWGS system to the next level.
I have a dss1 and lucked out getting the straylight mod. So awesome. Cantankerous interface. Never did figure out how to bring patches from different disks together to make a single disk for a set. Not a huge deal now i have the mod. What would really be cool would be a program to convert dw8000 patches to the dss1.
Totally - surprised actually that there isn't more DSS-1 software available. Interestingly the DSM-1 has the 16 DW-8000 waveforms as presents in the Harmonic synth engine. The DSS-1 doesn't have this.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams it wasnt 3k to upgrade, i think it was about half that. i also got the scsi install guy to add balancing transformers and XLRs on it
Thank you, for the awesome video! I got a DW-8000 for free and it wouldn't turn on; I opened it and found out the battery and fuse were removed; I just love this synth and I wonder if it's worth fixing it or try to get a used one somewhere
It's totally worth fixing. Seriously - probably won't cost you too much, or you should be able to do this on your own. I'd get the Power Supply running first by disconnecting the cabling and testing with a multimeter.
Love my DW8000, but man the aftertouch foam just crumbles after a while. Haven't been able to find a replacement strip, which is annoying because the aftertouch modulations add so much to the sound
You know why the DSS-1 weighs a ton? Because it's tons o fun! I get lost for hours messing with the filter and DDLs. I have a remake of that upgrade (some small company was selling them for a while) and that helps with the speed of the machine, but not the murkiness of the OS. I have an old CRT machine with an MPU-401 that runs Turtle Beach's editor for it. For some zazz, I found a digitizer tablet for it. I would like to get a Modwave at some point.....definitely weigh a lot less, take up a lot less space, and be easier to use.
nice video! I posted this in reddit - I'm hoping those viewing this video can help: I used to own not one, but TWO Korg DSS1 sampler/synths. I gave them away back in 2007 when I had to move house long distance. I did a lot of music on the DSS1s back in the 80s and 90s and recently my master tapes from my earliest works have died. I can recreate them musically (I know how to play them - I wrote them in the first place - and I have some of the MIDI files from then as well, so I'm covered that way) but I need the SAMPLES. I don't have any Jurassic computers, nor do I have room for a DSS1. So, I need the DSS1 sample library in a form I can use (wav, aiff, or SF2 would be optimal, mp3 would suffice).Does ANYONE have this? I have found some ancient websites that have the original floppies as .disk files, which are useless to me. This seems to be the norm. I look forward to any and all assistance in this regard. My plan is to rebuild them as DecentSampler instruments that I can then use in my DAW du jour.
I think the only way to do this would be to have someone resample these sounds from a DSS-1. It'd be the only way to recreate the sound of file as it would played - many of these sounds might just actually be small wavecycle samples that might not translate well if you convert directly to a wav. Let me look into this as possibly a project would be to do something like this for the masses.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams - cool. I should have done this when I had the DSS1s. Sigh. I had SO MANY diskettes - filled a boot box with 'em. Sigh. I think the single wave cycles would be fine in a wav file, IMHO. They're just getting tossed into a virtual sampler. Why Arturia hasn't made a DSS1 in its V collection, I have NO idea. Feel free to contact me if you need help with this.
DSS-1 sounds like a Fairlight with less computary appearance. Also it would be nice if this existed with modern screen and memory capabilites (and it's probably exist in software land).
DSS-1 is my ultimate sadness. I want it, it is freaking amazing and they are available and affordable.. But I simply cannot fit it anywhere in my room. And as you mentioned, the rack version is way too cripled to be considered. :(
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams Oh totally. Its sounds so pleasant! I have also similar issue with one another machine, well I do have JX-8P... but... JX-10.. Exists.. :D And now I realised you have video about one and I havent seen it yet. Have an amazing saturday! All the best.
I had both at a time, but the DSS-1 had the slowest disk drive ever conceived by man. I quickly started to hate it because of that, although the sound was lovely and crunchy.
yo you don't need to get the wavestate to get the DWGS waveforms! Every microKORG also has them! That's where I first learned of them, in 2003 when the microKORG was released. Maybe you mentioned modwave because its more similar? So funny those genius fools at Korg doubled down to release it as a rack and then they remove the delay, the filter resonance, and the other filter modes?!
11:22 Korg Modwave is the one with the lineage. Nautilus (also has the DWGS waves) is like their version of the M1 and DSS1 together. Synclavier Regen is another contemporary synth that DSS1 fans might also like.
I had a DW-8000 years ago. Really hasn't been anything quite like it sound wise. The M1 was amazing and of course better. The Roland S50 and then the Akais really turned out to be what people want and DSS1 quickly faded into history. Glad to see the DW-8000 get some recognition. Would love the module version but it commands silly prices. The delay board in the DW-8000 was incredibly noisy but it added so much to the package, try a DW-6000 and you'll find out.
I found a DSS-1 online as a local pick up for 80 dollars. The owner had no disks either. I spotted it, and did a quick internet search to see what it was, and decided to jump on it.
When I got it home I was able to draw a wave form and it played. Then i discovered the disk drive was bad, so I replaced it. Now it works really well.
It took me a while to understand what it is. Yes, it is a sampler. But it really is more like a rompler you put your own waves into. I have not really found a use for it in what I like to do sound wise.
I waver on whether to keep it or sell it. It's just so huge! It weighs almost 40 pounds too.
I may have to dig into it again and see what it can do. Seems like an ideal pad monster.
That pretty much sums it up - it's so massive and so complex. The Synth City sounds really show how great this machine is - with the dual delays and rich bottom end, it is an absolute pad monster. Worth keeping just for that alone.
Still don't understand it if you think it's a rompler. Definitely learn how to use it and it will be one of the best synths ever.
Thanks so much for putting a light on these really great synthesizers!
HISTORY. I bought BOTH of these in 1986 and used them LIVE in my 80ies career rock band. It was really a challenge waiting for the disc drive to load the samples LIVE. So, our front man who would create our set lists would work with me on which spaces between tunes he would have to talk to the audience so I could load for the next song! After a while, it all worked out wonderfully.
I took both with me to LA when we recorded our first album. Our producer's keyboardist brought his rack of gear to our session for me to use. All kinds of things from back in the day were in that rack including a pair of Yamaha TX81-Zs ! It was so 'fat' and the sound of them combined with other modules was incredible!, I had to SAMPLE his rack for my use live, and so, I did, using the DSS-1 !
I STILL have both of these boards nearly 40 years later, and last time I checked, the DW-8000's ORIGINAL memory battery STILL has all of my original programs on it which is amazing!
So, there you go. Sill in my collection, bought NEW, is a vintage Korg MS-20 with SQ-10 sequencer AND a Yamaha CS-60 which I paid $2400 back in 1979 ! A pair of MS-20ies were in my live rig for a number of years along with a new Poly 6, but the CS-60 was a bedroom piece, so, it is still like brand new. Thanks again! 👍
PS.......I Subscribed 🙂
Thanks for sharing that story and awesome synth history you have!
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams You are welcome, lots more where that came from 😆.
What was the name of your band Gary - I'd love to hear more. @@garysmith8455
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams We were the original 'Vice'. If you follow top metal singers and guitarists, you know the names Chris Impellitteri and Rob Rock. You can find a VERY early live concert video of us covering Tom Sawyer (Rush). There is also a 20 year reunion concert club event as well.
The Rush cover shows the MS-20 with the Poly 6 both in up front use in the mix, this was recorded by a fan with a big VHS camera! The reunion date has DW-8000, an old Hammond XK-2 (yuk) with a real Leslie 330 I bought back in 1976! Also a Korg MS-2000-B and an old E-MU orchestra keyboard under it on the stage right rack.
Too much to say about all this here, but, just search - 'Vice Reunion Rob Rock' and there are a bunch of good things there and should all be in some type of order. I think the Rush tune is last?, you may want to start there. The sound for the Reunion 2005 was recorded LIVE direct to Pro Tools on a PC by a hired tech, and was later mixed down in FL. I was always a programmer nut going back to my first synth (Korg Maxi Korg) back in '75.
So if you listen to Last In Line, you will here the strings and brass programing I did on the DW-8k. AND, hear the power of Rob's voice which he still has to this day!! Our drummer brought out his old and HUGE 80ies kit which he had not played in years. You can see that SAME set in use for the Rush tune 20 years early ((O: We were trying to re-create what we looked like back in the day. Enjoy. Keep in mind, all that video was recorded on a few TAPE cameras, so no 16:9 aspect ratios OR digital back in those days.
Fantastic as always Johnny! Let's hope Rob @ Retroaktiv follws through with his DSS-P controller for the DSS-1. It is such an incredible sounding synthesizer! To no surprise, it is really only held back by the archaic OS/UI as you mentioned. Rob's controller design was going to solve many of the drawbacks and the limited storage issues by having a full knob per function control surface and a substantial bank of digital and analog samples stored on modern flash memory.
Oh wow - that would be something - if makes this I'm all in on the DSS-1 for sure.
I would do bad things for a DSS-P!!
That would be incredible’ I’ve always thought the DSS-1 had one of the best filters and synth architectures for a hybrid. But of course its UI is so bad I had to get rid of it!
Guys, I've spoken to Rob @ Retroaktiv and gotten an update on the DSS-P controller. Due to issues with the original CPU choice, he was forced to make design changes that included using a different CPU entirely, as well as the flash memory, led controller, etc. As a result, they were forced to rewrite much of the code for the controller. However, the project is still in progress and nearing completion. We will likely see some units start shipping this year. Long live the DSS-1!
That is so amazing. I'm officially stoked.@@SacSynths_Jack_Z
Great documentary! I absolutely love my DSS1, one of the most underrated polysynths in the world.
Two things I think weren't mentioned... 1) when you hand draw a waveform, the DSS makes 8 (iirc) different versions at different frequencies, and then distributes them in the keyboard automatically. That gives you very clear highs and round lows. 2) the VCF have two modes, 12 and 24 dB/oct and they sound VERY different... very much like on the Jupiter-8. In fact I think the 12dB/oct is my favourite.
Hey @jun06 - thanks for that extra info. I didn't know that about the draw waveform - pretty cool actually. Yes - ad the filter - I should have mentioned the 2 modes for sure. Totally agree on the DSS-1 - it is amazing and totally a sleeper cult synth.
Yes, while writing a software synth I realized -12dB/oct cutoff is criminally underrated. With almost any sound it's worth considering from bass to brass to string. I think the OB-X only has -12?
@@lqr824 yep, it's derived from the SEM filter, which is 12dB. I also prefer the JP8 2 pole filter over the 4.
I miss my DishWasher 8000. Great synth. I worked at a Korg dealer back then, and we only got ONE DSS-1. It was very difficult to sell, I think it celebrated a birthday in our store.
Not surprising - so much going on at that time in Sampling, it quickly got surpassed in price and sampling ability. Thanks for that first hand info!
The DSS1 was too expensive, too hard to use, and to top it off upstart Akai had already taken the lead with sampling. But the DSS1 gave birth to the Korg M1!
The DW-8000 and its little brother the DW-6000 are both criminally underrated. Some of my favorite synths ever, especially when paired with a Retroaktiv DW-8P
Extremely grateful for the quality work you put in doing these video productions. Great job!
Now I have to dust off my DW-8000.
The DW-8000 is awesome. Everytime I play it I'm shocked at how good it sounds.
Great story telling! Thank you for creating and sharing.
I wanted these so bad when I was a kid. I used to go to a music store in Denver to play the DSS-1 all the time!!
Thanks for that bit of history. What a synth - way outside of my price range at the time!
And to think people complain about menu diving today… imagine the frustration of having to program; save; listen … really speaks to the skills of our early digital musicians
I would like to see a video on the story of Korg's "Logue" series. I recently got my hands on a Korg Monologue, and I love it to bits!
Fun fact: the DW-8000's waveforms are on standard ROM chips in plain 8bit PCM. They're actually multisamples for several octaves, in a format easy to figure out.
So if you know how to desolder a chip and use an eprom burner and a wave editor, it's relatively simple to put in custom waveforms.
Wow cool - makes sense - yeah - 4 ROMs, so I'd assume 4 waveforms on each.
Sounds like a good time and place to put in an EPROM socket, right?
@@jergervasi3331 Indeed, while you're at it. If you're feeling fancy, you can use eproms double the size, adapt the pinout (the difference is only 2 or 3 pins), wire a simple switch to the highest address pin, and that way get two banks of waveforms, switchable in realtime.
@@ropeburn6684 SLIIIIICK.
@@jergervasi3331 If you're feeling super fancy, use chips four times the size, adapt the pinout (it's a few more pins then, but doable), then use a 4-position 3-pole rotary switch (cheaply available), and wire two poles as a 2-bit encoder (quite easy) going to the two highest address pins, and remaining pole for LEDs. Voilà, four banks of waveforms switchable in realtime, with LED indication. The case and front panel have more than enough space for this.
Always a great production ... really well researched and bloody interesting!!! Keep 'em coming Johnny!! 🙂
Thanks @daz4627
Nice video. I have the DSS-1 and DW-6000. I have made my own WebMIDI editors for both of them. Great synth.
Very cool - are you able to share these editors?
Great video. I actually played a DW8000 at the Center For The Media Arts in NYC at a recording studio class. I played the bassline, chords, high strings and synth horns (think Prince) on it. Sounded great especially in 1990. One of my mentors owned the DSS1. I never got to use it. I didn't even know about the synthesizer built in until now 😮😮😮
What an awesome history story! Thank you! I learned a whole bunch from this video!!!
Thanks Mr. Koftinoff - Hope you are well and look forward to a hangout one day soon!
The late 70s and early 80s sure did move fast- it was so exciting, polyphonic synthesis was was introduced in the late 70s and shortly afterwards patch memory!
By the late 70s we had the first samplers- wow! Wavetable synths (like the DW series) came shortly afterwards, FM in the DX7!
40 years later, we're still using these same methods to make sounds, but due to advances in the underlying technology, cheaper, more powerful and in a more convenient form (such as plugins in DAWs).
Back in the 90s, before the internet was really big, I picked up a Korg DSS1 second hand that HAD the upgrade in it. It was absolutely one of my favorite synths of all time. I never used it as a sampler, really, since I had an E-MU that was much more capable. Unfortunately, I had to sell it to make rent, still not realizing it was such a rare item.
Recently, though, I picked up a DSS-1 that has the more recent Straylight mod, and it is just absolutely phenomenal! You can get those DW8000 type sounds, but also so much more with the synthesis options. It is a sleeper classic.
It really is - aside form it's size, with the Straylight mod I'm sure it's a monster pad machine
Still have my Dw8000 with modifications for dual voice and expanded memory, Dss1 with expanded sample memory, internal usb thumb drives replacing floppy discs, And my DSM1 all still in service. Never regretted their purchase. And they are in my studio lovingly used. Thank you for your video.
So great. That DSS-1 with expanded memory - is that original DDS-MSRK modification?
Kevin Moore's take the time solo ! Love my DW-8000. As well as my AJ-1, and ESQ-1.
Great video and aweseome collection of musicians actually playing these instruments. The DW8000 was my first synth I owned, bought new in the year it was released. I recently made it more usable in my setup by implanting an arduino based translation logic from midi cc commands to the original SysEx commands. So it is now possible to remotely control values like VCF cutoff and resonance using a simple midi controller.
The Korg Poly 800 was my first poly synth! Not at all that great, but the best I could afford at the time.
Still have my EX-800 and DSS-1! Great synths for cheap.
Mine as well - I saved my paper route money for it.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams I worked my butt off for 6 weeks during summer break, just to get this synth 😅
Nice - I love these 80's stories@@deantiquisetnovis
Thank you for reminding me I have a DW8000 with MEX8000 sitting unused under a dustcover. Time to go take use it again after many years.
Right on!
Hey, I watched all of your synth history videos, I had a few entertaining hours with them. It must have been a lot of work. Thanks for doing them!
Glad you like them!
Excellent overview of a overlooked gem, Johnny..! The DSS-1 used an "asynchronous" playback architecture. This means that the pitch of each voice was controlled by changing the playback sample rate. Samplers of that era that also used this system were the Fairlight CMI, the Synclavier II, Akai S-612 and the Sequential Prophet 2000, while other samplers used 'interpolation' to output voices at different pitches while keeping the system sample rate constant. These include the Ensoniq Mirage, all Roland and Akai from the S-950 on. These systems suffer from severe aliasing at the top of the keyboard, while the asynchronous systems cannot alias because the bandwidth of the system is always within the Nyquist limit (due to the variable sample rate). Question: Do the Korg DW-6000 and DW-8000 share the asynchronous architecture of the DSS-1?
Thanks for that info! I'll look into this for sure - it has me really interested an probably is partly the reason for the incredible low end as well. Very cool info @zmix. My thoughts are it probably is the same - I'll look at schematics to find out the similarities.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams The fact that the DSM-1 has non resonant filters makes me think that they were digital, and that they changed the playback architecture from the DSS-1 to a 'synchronus' system (much cheaper to manufacture, no VCF or VCAs and only 1 DAC multiplexed to produce the 16 outputs)
What a cool video. Two of my favorite synths!
Great history! Didn’t realize Kevin Moore used a DW-8000 in early Dream Theater. I’ve kind of wanted one for a while now…
Yeah he was big on Korg - seems like Dream Theater in general has been.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams Yeah, and then Derek Sherinian had a Korg Trinity. Jordan Rudess used to use a Kurzweil K2600 for the longest time, but then the OASYS and now Kronos pulled him back to Korg!
Awesome - another one! Thanks Johnny, your documentaries are my favourite synthtube content. I’d been considering getting a DSM-1 to get the DW/DSS flavours - but now I see I’ve got more thinking to do. Hadn’t realized they’d cut it down like that!
Yeah - I mean it's still really cool, but it's basically more a sampler. Very similar to the E-mu - Emax. Although the additive/harmonic synth engine does have the 16 DW-8000 presets which is really cool - I forgot to mention that.
Dw-8000 is such a unique sounding synth! Id like to own one sometime in the future.
They're pretty easy to find and really cheap - hope you get one soon.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams What do you mean they are really cheap?? Maybe some exceptions, but not as a rule.
@@80sandretrogubbins25 Ok well I mean relatively cheap like, $500-$600
I'm a permanent sucker for DW8000 sonic palette. And even though i will not be buying it, one of the reasons I am looking forward to getting the modwave module this year is because it also offers DW8000 sound set.
Great retrospective again Johnny Morgan, like your other featured synth videos nicely presented as a reference, and entertaining at the same time. Thank you!
I agree - DW8000 just has that sound - especially for synthwave. Yes - the new desktop / rack module of the modwave would be pretty awesome more reliable and cheaper than getting an old DW.
I enjoyed this video very much. I recently purchased a DSS-1 for cheap. I wish I would have had this synth growing up. My dad purchased a Roland S-50 back in the 80's and I loved it! But that was great as a sampler but not as a synth. The DSS-1 is definitely more of a synth.
DSS-1 is one of the best underrated synths ever! Sounds great putting drums through it too.
For sure - the DSS-1 really is a synth where you can sample the oscillator cycles. That's where it shines. I love my S-50 though as well for other reasons.
DSS-1, one of the best to me, astonishing sound.
Nice video. I love the sound of the DW800, you get pretty close to it with the Modwave.
Nice detailed video - I still have a DW-6000 and only recently serviced it!🙂😉
They said very little about the DW6000, they didn’t talk about the advantages and differences, It would also be worth mentioning the rackmount EW-8000
EW-8000? I’m assuming that’s a rack version of the DW-8000. Nice - didn’t realize. I’ll have to look into that. Thanks for the tip!
@@improbablesafari1491 *EX8000
It's called the EX-8000.
Great to see you on the channel Espen!
This video really is something to be proud of, Johnny. Thank you so much!
Awesome Johnny. Really enjoy these vids when you drop one!
Thanks Mr. Bond - much appreciated as always!
Award winning stuff right here!
Your story shows the soul of these lifeless digital devices. Peace!
I’ve got such a soft spot for digital waves with analogue filters… both this and the Prophet VS sound incredible.
I know it's going to be a good day when there's a new Johnny Synth Dreams video to listen to on my way to work!
Ha thanks.. lol! I will definitely be dropping in on some of your Wednesday night live streams as well - a lot of fun with a good pint of IPA!
Loved this. Always do. I had a DSS1, DW 6000 and Poly 800 back in the 80's. Brought me back to my high school/early college days.
Totally - 3 synths that were out right when I was in high school as well. I carried my Poly-800 around in a soft gig bag.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams I had a hard case for the das1. Hard to carry. I had a soft case for the dw6000. Can’t remember what I used for the poly.
Thanks for another great video Johnny, never knew about the DSS-1, what a beast!
I still have my DSS-1 - love it!!!!!
Love it. Great job. Thanks for making these videos.
Glad you like them!
I had the DSM-1, and trying to use the 16 outputs was either a nightmare or just plain impossible. The sampler was pretty nice and clean though, considering it's relatively low resolution (but better than the Mirage). Still, I got rid of it. Was pretty mad at myself for stupidly selling a Steinberger bass to buy it. I went to a studio not long after that had a DSS-1. It sounded great, but like our host said, it was gigantic! I wouldn't have had room for it. One interesting note: my DSM-1 came with a rarely seen set of yellow diskettes from KORG that had some amazing Collins and Bonham drum samples. I had the buyer extract the one-hit samples and put them on CD for me. I still use them to this day!
I recently found an EX-8000 in near mint condition for a very nice price. Happy with it, and it's all metal.
Very nice!
Don’t forget their little brother the Korg DS8! a strange but charm sounding FM Synth
My DS8 was a blast. But, holy Hell, was it noisy. Oooof.
Still have my DSS-1. Installed floppy usb drive for all programs and new upgraded chips. It still sounds great today.
Wonderful Johnny. Its seems to be a lament. I feel a little sad now. I would never have thought that i would feel nostalgia for the digitals/hybrids. I so miss my esq1 though.
Thank you for taking the time and sharing
I love making these - glad you enjoyed it.
Great video as always Johnny! I hope you're well. One of these days we'll catch up! Haha.
Hi Jay! Thanks for the message - yes we totally should catchup sometime soon. I love your videos and would be totally down for a zoom call if you have time. Al the best!
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams I'm up for a Zoom any time!
another superb mini l-doc . Thank you so much !!
i have them both ant want to share a really cool trick . Set the oscillator pitch bend on the DW8K parameter 66 to a value of 0 . Then set parameter 67 to 1/on.
Now, by using pitch bend information in your daw, you can sequence filter modulation. because it is pitch bend it uses NRPN for 16k resolution, allowing for super smooth filter modulation . you can draw in in your daw whatever complex shapes you want . The DSS-1 does the same thing by changing parameter, 61 to 0 and 62 to 1/on .
dw6k : 71 to 0 and 72 to 1.
Wow that is a good trick - totally gonna try this out over the weekend.
...ehh? also i was just looking at the dw-8000 midi implementation and it looks like it will also respond to poly after touch .
Great review, brings back a lot of memories.
I was a bit of a 'RolandHead' throughout the 80's. The 6000, 8000 and DSS-1 were the only Korg machines I've ever owned (even to this day).
Chose the DSS-1 over the Roland D-50 because it could sample & combine etc. etc...plus there were 3rd party D-50 sample disks, amongst others...Quite an innovative machine for its' time.
I know - back in the 80s you really had to chose one or the other as synths were so expensive relative to what we all had to spend!
Excellent video! I have 3 poly800’s and a DW8000. All work perfectly, except the middle key on the 8000.
nice - wow - 3 poly-800's - love it!
nice video - I love my DSS-1 (just did a live patch demo video) but sadly both of my DW-8000 units just died for no reason - they were great for a while
everyone complains about analog synths needing repairing, but old digital stuff is also fragile and getting older every year :-(
yes - much harder typically to repair digital synths in some ways.
very cool video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
The 40db boost on the DSS-1 sounds amazing on drums. Of course I got mine for beautiful pads and still have it in great condition with the original disk drive.
Discipline could hardly have come at a better moment. I was doing something that I do a lot to begin with, exploring trivia about different synthesizer builders and their chronology. This video definitely delve into the way that both of these instruments provide the bridge between unrelated Korg models, the Poly-800 and the M1.
In January 2007, I was tempted to get a DWI-8000. The thing that got in my way was that I had to choose between it and the food I had to put on the table for that month. Such a drag; it wasn’t even that expensive either.
Hey thanks for watching and your story. Hope you can find a DW-8000 one day.
Thank you Johnny, assuming I don’t instead go for the DSS-1. I’ve got a microKorg XL which has 64 DW-8000 waveforms in it. It might not have its original filters, but I feel like it’s the next best thing.
I mean realistically nobody would notice on a track. @@Shred_The_Weapon
For real, Johnny!
Thank you for this video. Keep up with great work as always :)
Thank you for this video, you did a great job! 👍🏼
The DSS-1 is a great synth/sampler. Only issues on mine are the buttons (I already purchased replacements) and the keyboard is really loud... oh and of course the whining display sound :) I even put a disk emulator in it and transferred all my disks to it many years ago with some PC software. Thanks! Will have to hook it up again soon.
Thank you for sharing 👍
Thank you too
What a brilliant video! I've got a 6000 and an 8000 and though the 6000 isn't a bad synth it feels basic in comparison to the 8000 which elevates the DWGS system to the next level.
Cool - what do you think of the DW-6000 - I feel it's more akin to the Poly-800 mkII in sound. What are your thoughts?
Nice analog filter in that DSS-1. Used to have one, sounded nice. Just too huge.
Great job!
I have a dss1 and lucked out getting the straylight mod. So awesome. Cantankerous interface. Never did figure out how to bring patches from different disks together to make a single disk for a set. Not a huge deal now i have the mod. What would really be cool would be a program to convert dw8000 patches to the dss1.
Totally - surprised actually that there isn't more DSS-1 software available. Interestingly the DSM-1 has the 16 DW-8000 waveforms as presents in the Harmonic synth engine. The DSS-1 doesn't have this.
Still a great video! Thx.
The DW-8000 has free running oscillators, which makes it more analogue like. What about the DSS-1 ?
Let me check into it but I think they are the same
i had one a dss1 with 4meg memory and hard disk, it was a beast
Wow that is awesome that you had one of the upgraded DSS-1's - it must have been.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams it wasnt 3k to upgrade, i think it was about half that. i also got the scsi install guy to add balancing transformers and XLRs on it
Thats great first hand info@@Teambr00klyn thanks for adding this note!
Golden age
Thank you, for the awesome video! I got a DW-8000 for free and it wouldn't turn on; I opened it and found out the battery and fuse were removed; I just love this synth and I wonder if it's worth fixing it or try to get a used one somewhere
It's totally worth fixing. Seriously - probably won't cost you too much, or you should be able to do this on your own. I'd get the Power Supply running first by disconnecting the cabling and testing with a multimeter.
Love my DW8000, but man the aftertouch foam just crumbles after a while. Haven't been able to find a replacement strip, which is annoying because the aftertouch modulations add so much to the sound
You should open it up and adjust the 2 variable resistors and see if you can get it to be more responsive
You know why the DSS-1 weighs a ton? Because it's tons o fun! I get lost for hours messing with the filter and DDLs. I have a remake of that upgrade (some small company was selling them for a while) and that helps with the speed of the machine, but not the murkiness of the OS. I have an old CRT machine with an MPU-401 that runs Turtle Beach's editor for it. For some zazz, I found a digitizer tablet for it. I would like to get a Modwave at some point.....definitely weigh a lot less, take up a lot less space, and be easier to use.
Turtle Beach's editor must be the way to go - I might see if I can get an old Laptop and this
My friend and band,ate had a DSS1 & a DW6000. Both were really good synths. But lugging the DSS1 to gigs and rehearsal could break your back.😂
I bet - with a road case that thing would weigh so much.
👍👍👍
amazing, as per usual!! - have you ever heard of the Casio FZ1? you should do a video on it :)
Oh yeah FZ1 is great - I totally should. Vince Clark loved Casio
I wonder if korg will release the vst. Or are all these sounds in the triton vst?
nice video! I posted this in reddit - I'm hoping those viewing this video can help:
I used to own not one, but TWO Korg DSS1 sampler/synths. I gave them away back in 2007 when I had to move house long distance. I did a lot of music on the DSS1s back in the 80s and 90s and recently my master tapes from my earliest works have died. I can recreate them musically (I know how to play them - I wrote them in the first place - and I have some of the MIDI files from then as well, so I'm covered that way) but I need the SAMPLES. I don't have any Jurassic computers, nor do I have room for a DSS1. So, I need the DSS1 sample library in a form I can use (wav, aiff, or SF2 would be optimal, mp3 would suffice).Does ANYONE have this? I have found some ancient websites that have the original floppies as .disk files, which are useless to me. This seems to be the norm. I look forward to any and all assistance in this regard. My plan is to rebuild them as DecentSampler instruments that I can then use in my DAW du jour.
I think the only way to do this would be to have someone resample these sounds from a DSS-1. It'd be the only way to recreate the sound of file as it would played - many of these sounds might just actually be small wavecycle samples that might not translate well if you convert directly to a wav. Let me look into this as possibly a project would be to do something like this for the masses.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams - cool. I should have done this when I had the DSS1s. Sigh. I had SO MANY diskettes - filled a boot box with 'em. Sigh. I think the single wave cycles would be fine in a wav file, IMHO. They're just getting tossed into a virtual sampler. Why Arturia hasn't made a DSS1 in its V collection, I have NO idea. Feel free to contact me if you need help with this.
I have a dw8000. ❤
DSS-1 sounds like a Fairlight with less computary appearance. Also it would be nice if this existed with modern screen and memory capabilites (and it's probably exist in software land).
I know - I mean for such a complex synth it really could have used a better interface.... ah the 80s.
DSS-1 is my ultimate sadness. I want it, it is freaking amazing and they are available and affordable.. But I simply cannot fit it anywhere in my room. And as you mentioned, the rack version is way too cripled to be considered. :(
I know - it's massive - I have the same issue. But damn does it ever sound good.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams Oh totally. Its sounds so pleasant! I have also similar issue with one another machine, well I do have JX-8P... but... JX-10.. Exists.. :D And now I realised you have video about one and I havent seen it yet.
Have an amazing saturday! All the best.
I had both at a time, but the DSS-1 had the slowest disk drive ever conceived by man. I quickly started to hate it because of that, although the sound was lovely and crunchy.
I know - it's so tedious. I think a USB drive would improve the speed somewhat, but the DMA would still be slow.
👍
yo you don't need to get the wavestate to get the DWGS waveforms! Every microKORG also has them! That's where I first learned of them, in 2003 when the microKORG was released. Maybe you mentioned modwave because its more similar? So funny those genius fools at Korg doubled down to release it as a rack and then they remove the delay, the filter resonance, and the other filter modes?!
Nice - I haven't owned a microKorg, but that is super cool.
How did DSS-1 dual delays compare to the two delays in the M1 (via its two MDE multi effects processors)?
I really feel they are so much better sounding.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams Thanks, can you elaborate, and how exactly did you compare?
I have both synths - the M1 effects just seem more digital and cold.@@ShallRemainUnknown
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams Fair enough, I'll categorize this under the Baseless, Pointless Opinion Section, and move along...
Sure if you want. It's more than obvious if you listen to them. @@ShallRemainUnknown
It's a behemoth.
in my collection of synths : ds8 / dss1 / dw8000
Nice - DS8 is interesting as well as a FM cousin
is there any modern equivalent?
11:22 Korg Modwave is the one with the lineage. Nautilus (also has the DWGS waves) is like their version of the M1 and DSS1 together. Synclavier Regen is another contemporary synth that DSS1 fans might also like.
I had a DW-8000 years ago. Really hasn't been anything quite like it sound wise. The M1 was amazing and of course better. The Roland S50 and then the Akais really turned out to be what people want and DSS1 quickly faded into history.
Glad to see the DW-8000 get some recognition. Would love the module version but it commands silly prices. The delay board in the DW-8000 was incredibly noisy but it added so much to the package, try a DW-6000 and you'll find out.
Dude, you’re living in your fantasies. Lol
Korg's design language before the M1 was crap. All those keyboards look like Casio toys.
Yeah it was strange - definitely came together with the 707 and then the M1.
Very interesting. I didn’t know about these synths. This channel is very good, not repeating all the obvious stuff about common synths. 👍🫡👌🏼⭐️
Glad you enjoy it!