Filip Gasic No need to underappreciate his actions, just because being a good person should be the norm, it's not and Trott is doing genuine good in this situation
Context for this: A lot of this started when one of Bouphe's friends, a Terraria streamer called Badger, was accused on twitter of sexual assault. Badger however had a lot of evidence against these claims that he made public and Bouphe came to his defence (after he posted evidence). This led to people accusing her of not standing with the victim and ignoring victims of sexual assault. Bouphe responded by saying she stands with the victims particularly since she herself was a victim to Sjin and Turps' predation (this was the first many people including the yogs knew of this). Gee also agreed with this and these led to a realisation for a lot of people that Sjin in particularly wasn't just a guy who was misunderstood but really was a creep. I believe (not certain on this bit) it was around then that Trott said this. These started discussions about a couple of things. Firstly a photo of a zoom pub quiz involving several yogs along with Sjin. Most (possibly all) of the people in that photo have said they were not aware that Sjin would be there when they were invited and were uncomfortable being there and how no interaction with him. Most of these are highly upvoted on Reddit if you wish to read them. There was also a discussion about many things ThatMadCat had been saying in his discord. There were many examples of sexist comments sometimes predatory as well as a couple of instances of defending Sjin and Turps. MadCat has been refusing to apologise for any of these or even admit there was really an issue. This has then led to him been removed from the yogscast. I think that's everything that's happened, if you want to see it in detail most of the first half happened on twitter and the second on reddit so should be fairly easy to find.
Is it sexist for me to not see an issue with a woman making jokes about women that come off as sexist or is there more to it than that cus not sure why that would result in mad at getting the boot
for being some of the silliest, craziest, edgiest members of the yogscast, the hat boiks also seem to be some of the most open and supportive and i've always respected them for that. it seems bouphe has always been comfortable making content with them and i'm glad she (and others) can at the very least be comfortable with some guys in the office
That's because when you let yourself go without a filter, so to speak, your mind spends less time held down. More freedom to think instead of tiptoeing around. Gotta go hard both ways so you don't upset the balance.
They get pretty serious in half of their GTA videos where they talk philosophy, politics, religion and social issues. But 2 minutes later they're talking about a 4 cheese pizza but the cheeze is dried up skin or eye boogers. Gotta love the boys.
@Kevin Choi I would personally like to know your opinion on what/how your boundary’s are to say #1: a friend you’ve had your whole life that you talk to every other month over text for like twenty minutes ( someone I need to figure out boundary’s with ),#2: someone you’ve just met,#3: someone you’ve been in the same class with in school but have only talked to a couple of times(college)#4: friends/ cousins/ brothers/ sisters girlfriend,#5: a friend you talk to regularly, and #6: first date to 3rd date. If you can tell me what you seriously, and personally think individually of those 6 scenarios I’d be grateful. I’m not that great at figuring out boundary’s and to be honest I can almost never lead a conversation that is fun/ interesting, especially at my age. You know what, I am just not good at socializing, period. If you do respond thank you and have a wonderful day! If not then still have a wonderful day you absolutely nice guy/ gal that I am definitely not trying to answer me by using sympathy or a portrayal of a false sense of security! Much love
I think the trick to being edgy in a good way requires a great understanding of such topics to know how to dance around them without being hurtful or a bad person
As outrageous and lewd as they can be; moments like this are all the more reason to respect HatFilms, & for me at least Trott especially. They’re mature when they recognize the need to be, and are clearly wise beyond our initial recognition. They’re decent people, who are using their platforms to give good, morally right advice. Crazy respect for you guys
I appreciate the energy that Smith can bring, but I also think that a quiet and reserved individual with passion in the slight rise to his voice is also powerful. Time and place for both.
It's just terrible because nobody really knows what's true and what's not. I mean theres Marty Scurll ( which absolutely happened ) and then there's Matt Riddle ( is he innocent ? ) it's so bad
@@murpaderp8461 you know that the wrestling world is far far bigger than WWE right? In fact most of the wrestlers accused of things have never worked for WWE. Wrestling is not one company
Thanks for the upload, Xeno! As I don't regularly watch the boiks streams, I would've missed this otherwise. Good to hear what they had to say regarding all this shit that's going on currently. Looking forward to more of both important and funny uploads from you!
Really breaks my heart hearing the people I used to look up to actually do this scummy shit man. I miss the simple days back when the yogscast main channel was blue xephos, sips and sjin duo, duncan and rythian feuds, hat films used to play dayz and trials. Never imagined turps and sjin would do such things.
@@durkle1120 It is. It really is. People can do worse things, granted, and this is certainly not the extent of our capability for cruelty. But this is that bad. Because it hurts people. It destroys them. Their livelihoods, everything they knew about the people around them, and it changes the way people treat them. These victims take a huge step in terms of bravery and courage, and saying "it's not that bad" is incredibly hurtful to the movement over all. I looked up to these guys as well, but when information presents itself, the smart thing to do is alter your opinion. And with the overwhelming evidence against these guys, no more support should be afforded to them. They did terrible things and potentially ruined lives. It needs to be talked about, understood, and overcome.
HappyLarry he never mentioned how people shouldn’t blindly believe everything they hear. So much false claims going around right now that is ruining lives
Trott really is such a good guy...i appreciate him and the other two so much. Proud of people with a platform who are speaking out about these kind of issues and proud to be a fan of these guys 💛
I feel bad for Lewis, Simon, and Sips. Lewis told certain people to stop doing things and they said they would stop then they went and did those things again when he trusted them. And Sips... good ol' Sips. Sjin was like the peanut butter to his jam/jelly. They were like, inseparable for so many major projects and seemed to have such a good chemistry. Sips is a loving father and husband and as one of longtime yogs I know it can't be painless to find out his former buddy's deeds. I never really liked turps though. Dude was like a shittier Ricky Gervais.
Caff was an ASMR creep, Turps was fun at times but literally always talking about or bringing up something sexual, but Sjin just felt like one of the good guys. He was one of the last people I would have suspected of anything
@@branominal I mean, here lately a lot of old yogs are talking about how some of the people making accusations are uh... Just bad people, Kim apparently raised a lot of hell towards some of hat films and tried to make them seem worse than they were... All in all I think a lot of the stuff that happened is true, but so far sjins allegations seem to be more of just accusations that came out and they acted on to cover their butts, sjin still talks to a lot of the yogs.
@@livingglowstick1337 no... They said there was evidence but as it was never provided, no legal action was taken, and sjin is still walking free it would be wrong to consider him guilty, right? I find it unrealistic to say the least that sjin would still be walking around if he actually did the things they said he did. Stop simping for the yog girls, it's bad enough Kim, bouphe, and Hannah have single handedly ruined the yogscast reputation, we don't need people taking the law into their own hands and destroying reputations for clout.
I love the Hats, first and foremost because they just... talk. When they have a topic they want to discuss, they don't beat around the bush, they don't use colorful language and metaphor, they just shoot straight and make their stances known. Though they are brash, chaotic, and unfiltered, they're good lads with strong opinions, and a collective mindset that allows them to sensibly discuss sensitive topics. Whether they split into opposing sides in a debate, or join together in order to support an ideal (with the current situation being a great example of that), they can speak their minds in a respectful and poignant manner.
Continuous! enthusiastic! consent! Don’t assume, ask. And when someone goes public with complaints of abuse listen to them. Trott was great in this. He’s really a stand up guy with a lot of heart
And this is why I will always respect and admire these three, they’ve always been my favourite creators in and around the Yogscast, well educated and funny, but also teach younger audiences how to act in a way, a bunch of good influencers Thank you boys
So true. These three always had the ‘bad guys’ persona (in a funny way) of the Yogscast and the three of them are just so fucking golden as humans. Well rounded, mature, level headed. Well, Smith adds more salt but the three of them are just such good men.
@@BuddyBanchuk He had plenty to apologise for. He said some really yikes shit, which is perfectly in line with what some of the other yogs do, the difference being that he said this yikes shit directly to fans and singled out individuals in the community rather than it being part of an "act" like the others do on twitch or youtube. When confronted about this he refused to apologise or admit that anything he had done or said could have been considered offensive or rude, even when several people had asked him to stop because his "edgy humour" was making them uncomfortable. He dug his own grave and refused to take responsibility for his actions until it was too late, and he desperately attempted a pretty pathetic apology video because he was already being kicked out.
@@edgarmoule9825 Said some dumb shit, people jumped on him and tried to find everything they could, dude got kicked out for being a muppet with testicles for a brain.
I started watching the Hat lads when I was definitely too young (Probs like 12 lol) but now, at 21, I'm so proud to be a fan of them as genuine, kind-hearted, respectful and good people. Love the Boiks x
As brash, unfiltered and childlike the Hat Boiks can be, I’ve found myself, after watching them for years now, to be so much more understanding and always keep perspective around anything. They’re highly opinionated but are so level headed, wish I heard Smith bring his fire to the conversation. Real smart and genuine TWATS but people perceives them to be the most immature members of the yogs
It took me a while to see more depth behind their crazier antics but I'm glad I stuck with them for that reason :) I think they actually balance each other out very well
this isn't just about internal yogs assault, idk if yall have seen the HUGE movement in twitter addressing harassment in the gaming content creation circle, as well as in games industry this is a movement to out the abusers of the world, support each other ❤️ good on the hat lads though, it's good to hear you guys talk about this, your voices are as important as some people may hear your opinion & start to understand the bigger picture ❤️
As someone who has experienced sexual assault, and have people blame me for it or blame my clothes for what happened. I can honestly say this is one of the most mature and genuine conversations on the subjects I've seen. Thankyou, it's nice that this is finally being talked about respectfully. It's really nice to know that theres some people out there who will have your side.
@@ValkyrieXI2 I dont think so. I was saying how these guys have chosen to talk about this topic respectfully whereas alot of times I've tried to talk about it with some "friends" its end in me being the one blamed or disrespected
@@faelyndawnlake is asking you what you we're wearing disrespectful? In my mind its a necessary part of invastigating and getting the whole picture. It's just data, not an insult. How you interprete it is a wholely different matter. I don't know what happened to you, and I don't know what your "friends" told you after all. But there are a lot of people *on the internet*, people who are spinning the narrative mind you, who are just offended by data, the question "what were you wearing?," without a motive. I'll extend an olive branch to you and say: If they told you its your fault because of what you wore, fuck them, I'd have cut ties to them a long time ago and good on you for booting them. This how ever over all is exceedingly rare. I hope you're doing well
@@ValkyrieXI2 first thankyou some days are worse than others but overall I think I'm okay. Asking me what I was wearing is not disrespectful. I was wearing a long sleeved baggy tshirt, a hoodie and some Jean's it was a cold day in january. I was in a relationship with him at the time so alot of people said he was allowed and didnt need consent.
Well im just finding out madcat was an actual member of yogscast today, thort he always just recycled others content only,,? Many years ago I tried to call myself a yogscast fan, but with every new person I saw it just reminded me that I was only ever a Hat Films and Sips fan really, no matter how hard I tried to like all the others
Absolutely. I hope I don't regret saying this but they seem to be a real good role model when it comes to examples of handling shit like this. Zero Tolerance, no non-apologies and I'm glad so many of the Yogs are taking the time to speak out both against it and against defending and/or minimising it.
@@RAFMnBgaming people like Lewis are also just so sad it got this far I saw him talking about how he spoke to an individual, they told them they'd stop etc. And they betrayed that trust he had in them.
Trott is my son. I have always been proud of him but never more so than seeing this! Chris, you have always been a wonderful caring soul and am so glad you are able to show everyone what I have always known! Keep it up! So, SO proud of you and the guys for giving victims a voice! Love you xxx
The main issue with trying to be skeptical is the stigma around questioning the victim. Most sexual harassment allegations have rather sparse evidence due to the nature of the crime (Being non-confrontational, not reliant upon the taking of something, leaving no marks ect) In these cases the only way to prove the victim's accusation is to fail to disprove it. Which is why so many of these cases revolve almost entirely around grilling the victim. Most of the time people can't be skeptical without trying to contradict the victim which is victim blaming, forcing them to re-live the experience or putting undue pressure on the victim. It's just a disaster and I stay the hell enough away but unfortunately the police often get dragged through this minefield as do, to a lesser extent, anyone trying to form their own opinions.
@jakechinn what about innocent until proven guilty, that’s the only way real justice can ever occur. Don’t dismiss allegations, realize anyone you respect could be doing horrible things, but if you don’t prosecute and judge people based on innocent until proven guilty then we’ll begin living in a lynch mob society.
@@globalbondfan1 Nope. Innocent until proven guilty is always misunderstood as a be-all-and-end-all. In cases like this (sexual assault) presumption of guilt tends to occur. There is a rebuttable statement of fact (X was abused by Y) and the burden of proof shifts onto the defendant (Y) to show why/how these allegations can be disproved. From my understanding, this is what Badger was doing and Bouphe supported whatever evidence they provided. This has been common practice for centuries in certain cases. It applies to instances where there is a large amount of testimonial evidence with no evidence provided by the defendant (take DMBrandon on the recent Smite scene with 7 corroborating allegations and no evidence from him), or if the defendant was, to say, take flight before trial. It seems like initially Badger was accused and to be presumed of guilt by the community, and has since provided evidence himself. I will clarify that all I'm trying to do is discuss your comment on "real justice" and innocent until proven guilty, I have no educated opinion or knowledge of the exact accusations against Badger or whatever is going on. It's just a generic point. I'm not trying to be patronising or antagonising just want to point out some legal stuff and why we shouldn't be worried about a lynch mob society (after all the law hasn't changed - the presumption of guilt does/has occurred for many years). I hope you have a good day :)
@@Dracoriax Innocent until proven guilty is a concept on how to treat the accused not a procedure on finding them guilty. It's just a moral leaning towards not punishing people in anyway until you are sure they are guilty without a reasonable doubt. What you're talking about is Burden of Proof AKA whose job it is to actually prove something. The Burden of proof lies upon the person making the positive claim, I.E 'There is a god' or 'You did something' as they are the one asserting something. The person defending themselves from this makes a negative claim, I.E 'No there isn't' or 'No I didn't' and generally doesn't have to bring forward evidence against the crime itself, instead they contradict and disprove evidence made for the positive claim. It's done this way because it is often impossible to prove something false on it's own basis. For example you can't prove that something doesn't exist if it actually doesn't. The only way to disprove something is to prove something else. So it's a lot harder to find evidence and that evidence is easier to dismiss as it has no correlation to the crime. For example you may be unable to prove I was at the crime scene but if I can't prove I was elsewhere, under your logic, you can just assume I was there. This combined with issues around being able to accuse anyone of anything then THEY have to run around disproving it. Then can be punished simply because of a lack of evidence in their defence while having none to condemn them. So yeah, bit of a mess. Though I will say that you mostly had all the ideas down just that initial presumption of guilt you mentioned shouldn't be happening in the first place.
As hard as it is to talk about these things, but I’m glad that Hat Films addressed this in this manner. It makes me love them even more, and respect them more, I am proud of Bouphe and Gee for sharing their stories. Admittedly, it has given me the courage to talk about my own experience with sexual assault. It’s like a huge weight lifted off of me to be able to finally talk about it.
And sometimes people don't talk about when they were taken advantage of because it was a long time ago and they don't feel that anyone else would take it seriously, even if to them it was an event that shattered their perceptions of things and still has a negative side effect on them to this day... and they don't want to stir up old stuff. ... *sigh*
I mean, to be fair, it's not "odd" for the justice system to rely on evidence. We don't want a system where literally any accusation results in sanctions against another. Or a system where your case hinges on how convincing you are as a person. There are two primary issues when it comes to involving authorities: 1) You risk not being taken seriously. It can be very traumatic and transgressive to contact and involve a stranger in something rough, shameful or embarrassing that you're going through. 2) In case you do go to court and the defendant or their lawyer think they might have a bad case, they will attempt to drag you through the mud to either discourage you from continuing to pursue a particular case, or to change the opinion in the courtroom. Obviously that's not very nice. But are the any obvious solutions to that? Not really. That's what makes all of this so difficult. It's never as simple as "Just listen to women!" or other popular slogans. Because, yes, of course we should listen to anyone who claims to have experienced something traumatic or illegal. But when the claim is all there is, doing anything about it is nigh impossible.
This is very true. I wish people could literally step back and take more neutral approaches to issues such as sexual harassment. Maybe it's just me but it's ok to support and listen to victims or potential victims AND not assume guilt based purely on an accusation, I believe there is a middle ground.
Completely agree. If the justice system worked off of just accepting someone's accusation, so many innocent people would be incarcerated just because some ass-hole wanted to ruin someone's life or try to get money out of them. Evidence IS important, specifically so you don't accidentally fuck up an innocent person's life. I also believe in a middle ground.
@@brandonrichard9568 As has, sadly, been the case in some cases where the allegations were proven false after the trial had happened. Innocent people, most often men, have spent time in prison and been labeled for life because of crimes they didn't commit, because a judge or jury decided that, in a case with little-to-no evidence, the accuser was simply more credible than the accused. To allow such a bias to rule is to pervert the very notion of justice. The resistance to such a system would only further undermine the work of legitimate victims, as those frustrated by such a lob sided system would no doubt seek to discredit absolutely anyone and everyone coming forward, as discrediting the accuser is frankly the only way to defend yourself from an empty allegation.
@Rakinjo2 And the worst trial is the one that takes place in the court of public opinion. People have been able to prove themselves innocent in a court of law and they will still have their reputations ruined because of allegations proven false, and many will commit suicide because false allegations, simply because no one will believe them. And honestly it’s sad how people think this is modern, cancel culture has been going on since we were calling people witches.
Seems like #istandwithtrott is legit now, lol. I'm glad they discussed this without Smith present. Love the guy and all but this topic requires tact that Smith isn't known to have.
8 months late to the party, but while I agree on Smith's lack of tact, I feel like it isn't from a crass place, as I see him make the same errors I end up making in conversation. I suspect (and suspect only) that, like me, he struggles with uncomfortable situations like this and the only way he can really "deal" with them is to crack jokes. A lot of people I know get on my case for it, and the simple truth is that I just can't fully wrap my mind around the situation and verbalize how I feel about it. "Deflect and/or crack jokes to hide the internal struggle" kind of thing.
Absolutely stunned at how professional Trott was, well bloody done. Unrelated, but I’ve been binge-watching the Jaffa Factory series and it still hurts that Sjin wasn’t just a guy who flirted with fans but was actually a pervert. Obviously I’ll continue to watch it but damn man it still just aches to know this stuff.
Person 1: "Do you have any chicken?" Person 2: "No." Person 1: "Understandable, have a good day." Person 1: "Do you want to have sex?" Person 2: "No." Person 1: "Understandable, have a good day." Sex is not some mystical thing to be sought after, it is just a thing. Sometimes they have sex to give to you, sometimes they don't. Some restaurants don't serve chicken, some people don't do sex. You don't see people forcing vegan restaurants to make chicken, do you? You don't see people forcing a restaurant to make chicken that they've run out of, do you? Some people prefer homemade food, and that's ok. Some people prefer to know someone personally before knowing them intimately. Some people don't enjoy eating, and only do it for survival. Some people don't like sex, and sex isn't necessary to survive. Some people prefer to make their own food, and that's ok too. Let them have their rabbit pie and a wank. Different people have different appetites and libidos. You can't control either, and you can't force people to like what you like, or to do what you want to do. If someone says no, respect that and politely move on.
Not sure if you’ve copy pasted this or just written it out, either way, this is a great articulation of consent that HOPEFULLY everyone understands. It’s sad that we feel the need to do this, you’d think humanity was at the point where basic morality was the standard
@@depecher6s311 I typed it out myself haha Thanks for the compliment, and yes, it is a tragedy that people still don't understand one of the most basic words in the English language, and one of the most basic concepts in contemporary society. It hurts me to know people are hurting, I just want everyone to be ok. Humanity is better than this, I know it, and it's awful that some people drag us down to their level.
There's a great video if you search 'tea consent' that takes a very similar approach to your post and is a great short, lighthearted approach to the topic if anyone needs something to point people at.
Wow just been reading up what happened poor bouphe and gee we need to stand by them it's going to be hard to accept and hell was not expecting Thatmadcat to get involved I remember the shock about sjin and turps and I didn't understand at the time but now I know and understand why they left we need to send a message saying this is not ok
This is really good to hear. I've watched the Yogs since 2011, and watching everything fall apart in the last year has been heartbreaking. I have to say though that simply sticking to written statements and then not commenting further is just not good enough. I believe that the only proper form of action is an inquest and action taken through the courts. This is for several reasons: I no longer have confidence in the Yogscast to handle things properly; important things such as transparency, victim support and the presumption of innocence have been neglected. For the record I DO believe those who have complained, but the way that this has been conducted has led to trial by social media with only some details available. These people appear to very much have done wrong, but I think there could be a case for libel if people aren't careful, Yogs management included as well as people commenting. So far, standing with the victims has been made up of making a statement then 'moving on'. Non-disclosure agreements are not justice and may leave room for further harm in future. IF there is reason to believe that former or current members have potentially committed a crime, then it should be referred to the police who will decide if immediate action is required, and the Crown Prosecution Service will decide if there is enough evidence to go to court. Anything less is not enough.
Their code of conduct was broken but crimes were not committed, the police was informed, and they have no reason to make public the contents of their inquiry. They made decisions with outside consultation and their conclusion was that these members displayed a pattern of predatory behaviour for which their contracts would be terminated. If they did this without sufficient evidence then they would have been sued for wrongfully terminating contracts and libel, since in civil court the burden of proof would fall largely on the yogs. At the end of the day this matter is best kept internal to protect the victims, and whistleblowers.
@@zoravar.k7904 Frankly that doesn't stand up. It is not necessarily so that crimes were not committed; it can also depend on people wanting to press charges. At no point is anonymity of victims and whistleblowers in jeopardy, that's not how that works. It has not been adequate at all. Given that these are public figures who have ready access to people who may be vulnerable, transparency is important.
@@monarchist100 this is an internal matter, as far as all parties are concerned everything was done by the book. If victims want to press charges that is between them and the CPS, the fan base has no part in it. Victims will not be happy about the circus that will ensue if this became public. They may be public figures but this case should not be tried in the court of public opinion. At the end of the day there were breaches of contract and the contracts were terminated. We have no right to know everything, and it would do the community no good as it would simply divide it further. There is already plenty of statements from various affiliated parties and some physical evidence public. This was by no means just one statement from the yogs. Edit: they have already been 'canceled', anyone who looks them up will know the nature of their offense, so I don't think it puts more people at risk.
Not wanting to cause problems for my family is entirely it. If I could persecute the multiple men who have sexually abused me, without my parents having to know the details as it would break their hearts, I would do it in a second.
I find that whilst the truth is a hard pill to swallow in life it is also the most likely to engender change for the better. People who commit a crime are more likely to do it again. I don't know life in your shoes but for the sake of hurting your parents offset that against both your and other potential victims wellbeing. Stay safe and well.
@Tom what trott said just resonated with me and I felt like he was creating a place to be able to mention it. Also I don’t know who a few of the males were and was young. I appreciate the comments. I feel a lot of guilt that I didn’t feel able to go to the police. It’s a complex beast
I’m a male, but there have been multiple cases of people doing things(I would rather not say what) towards me that made me very uncomfortable. The worst part is I’m sure that these things do not measure up at all to those that happen to women.
Wow. I honestly would have never expected this from trott when I first saw him and hat films make their debut. But I for one am pleasantly surprised on realising just how much of a down to earth person he is Thank you for this trott and I'm sorry that 14 year old me ever doubted your seriousness when I first saw you
I'm a black guy in America, and all I got to say is mad respect for that statement Trott. Humans are at their best when we express genuine love and understanding.
Good on you for joining the Yogs, Im not a elitist fan of yours saying i knew about you before the other guy or i only watched your videos but im happy to start anew with you and cant wait to see the content you put out
No matter who you are male or female, black or white, young or old, poor or rich, etc. if anyone is taking advantage of you please speak up. We are all equal and if someone isn't treating you like one then that needs to stop. We are all in this together so we need to act like it. Treat human beings as human beings. Please don't think you have a voice and that people won't be behind you, you do and we are. Bring evidence to law enforcement if you can and speak up, please. Human rights apply to all and anyone who violates those rights must be punished. Read the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, know your rights. They deserve to be respected and protected, and while we still must respect innocent until proven guilty...that doesn't mean they aren't guilty.
Another thing, "it's one persons word against another", of course it is, but you have to realise that the person getting accused, whether guilty or not is more than likely going to have their life ruined by that, it's no good siding with the 'victim' all the time because that might not actually be the victim, and you're inadvertantly destroying the life of someone who hasn't done anything wrong.
It's very difficult but I do think there is a middle ground that needs to be achieved. A way to not immediately assume someone's guilt and create and environment where an accusation isn't a life-sentence, whilst also listening to and supporting victims or potential victims. It's bloody difficult but I believe it's something we should strive for when trying to find the truth. I'll be honest I think the yogs, whilst it was by no means perfect, dealt with the situation quite well. It was done very privately, no one was immediately fired without investigation and all claims where taken with a grain of salt and not blindly listened to, and I believe they made the right decisions.
Sexual assault allegations, lots of people are sharing their stories of assault on social media and some Yogscast members have come out with their stories about ex-employees.
I love that Hat Films are some of the silliest and loudest members, yet they can be some of the most respectful and inclusive bunch. Big reason I've been subscribed for so many years
Which “abusers” are they talking about specifically? I know there were Turps and Sjin issues but that was ages ago. Has something new happened more recently?
Probably referring to recently it came out that Sjin sexually harassed Bouphe and Gee, on top of all the stuff with Twitch and some streamer networks being shitty
Recently Bouphe and Geestar revealed that they were also victims of Turps and Sjin. Bouphe stood up when someone said that she was aware and complicit of the harassment that happened
I mean his hearts in a great place, but to make a note on the last thing he said about not having evidence, while it's horrible if the crime was an actual thing that happened that doesn't mean you should just outright believe the victim without proper evidence. It sucks ya but that's the world we live in and crimes like rape are easy to get away with and are also just as easy to start false rumors for. If you were to take every single person at face value, then I imagine a lot more people will just get falsely accused because the accuser knows they could get away with it.
thing is though, it's not about 'believing' a victim without evidence, it's about not just dismissing them if they don't have any immediate evidence to hand. Or even about not just dismissing them at all without any kind of investigation. "Believe victims" doesn't mean we should, without investigation, deem the accused as guilty, it means we should believe that the victim has gone through something traumatic they deserve compassion _while_ it's being investigated. If we say that people should only come forward if they have concrete evidence, then fewer people will come forward, allowing the problem to perpetuate. Not to mention that while false accusations do happen and are really terrible, they are far less likely than real ones. (sorry for the long reply, I'm kinda passionate about this)
dtc white yeah I think the language is an issue here but that’s usually the case if you try to condense a whole movement into a single catchphrase. I personally use “listen to victims” because I think it’s gets across this point a bit better. I can see why people want to use “believe victims” because still when someone experiences assault their story is picked apart in a hostile environment (like police interview) which makes them feel like they _aren’t_ being believed and makes the whole experience that much more traumatic. There are better ways of communicating with survivors and I think the Netflix series _Unbelievable_ shows this so much better than I can explain here so I highly recommend! Its also a great show too.
@@yourearsaregreen " It means we should believe that the victim has gone through something traumatic they deserve compassion while it's being investigated." What you're saying amounts to giving people a reason to lie and produce fake evidence, rewards for nothing and as long as it is inconclusive they get a reward encouraging this behavior. I've seen groups abuse this to write the VICTIM off as the abuser by making the claims first. People lie for personal gain, and more so when there is less risk... to believe and support a cause without hesitation end up getting YOU abused and makes things EASIER for the abusers. It lets both the good and bad take the road. Skepticism is important, otherwise it just becomes an easier tool for abuse with reward. Otherwise the information you get is built on confirmation bias. This is why you MUST operate neutrally or get taken advantage of.
Trott leaning into the main takeaways from this. We should all check ourselves in our interactions with others. We've all made mistakes and it's important that we all try to really be Better and if necessary take real Accountability. I think lots of cancelling happens, but some of it is necessary and some should seem "martyr-like" but it's more of setting actual precedent. These things need to be talked about. You'd be surprised how hard And easy it is to respect other people, especially those who have experienced so much disrespect.
I’ve honestly decided to avoid Yogcast stuff for the future, not in the defense of anyone but I’ve been thinking about it for awhile since I barely watch their content anymore and these recent events have just escalated my decision
@1234 What is a real job, in your opinion? Something that makes money? In that case, they have real jobs. If someone finds something they like doing and figures out a way to make money from it they should be allowed to do so (I have some exceptions to that argument). That being said, like all people and organizations, the yogscast are in no way perfect, as evidenced by the events that have gone on recently. I do not think that it warrants a complete cease of yogscast activity though.
It would be nice to go on the Internet without being constantly harassed by men, you think someone is your friend then they turn out to be a pervert that's just using you as a toy. Also having to hide your gender, turning private messages off just so you won't get hit on. Harassing women seems to be so normalised , when is it going to stop being called awkward flirting.
Barring some truly pathological overreaches, I think it's fundamentally a feature of life. Men have to get out there and take initiative. If they give up at the first hurdle, they are quite likely to miss out on people who aren't fundamentally against them, but merely need a bit more convincing. It would be as if a salesman gave up the moment someone expressed tenuous initial disinterest; ludicrous. Once we accept this much, it becomes a question of when tactful courtship veers off into inappropriate social conduct. Good luck finding an answer that both sounds right and could actually work with human beings, the bizarre, irrational and horny creatures that they are :S.
Ok, so....I'm seeing a lot of people dismiss a lot of this kinda stuff as "just flirting" and I think I should probably explain something. Women, typically don't WANT to flirting you with them. Especially at work. And especially especially if you've had very few social interactions up until that point. You can try maybe once, but unless she reciprocates then it a good rule of thumb is that you're kinda creeping her out. I know this is like a big part of our social interaction and we're like kinda influenced by the media to think of it as a totally acceptable form of communication, but typically speaking.......yeah. Just food for thought.
I never would've known that this type of abuse would ever happen in the Yogscast. I've been watching the Yogscast since their first Minecraft video (9 years ago) and watching them for some years (can't remember). Twitch wasn't even a thing 9 years ago so they only posted videos on their YT channel(s) that I loved to watch everyday (I was 21 at that time). I didn't watch as much of Hatfilms (They joined like 4 years later after the first Minecraft video) but during the charity streams that the Yogscast and Hatfilms did, I enjoyed Hatfilms with their friendly banter, laughter and also their creativity with music. I have never ever been bullied like this online because I am cautious about it. Sure, we all get messages from people saying that you are bad at a certain game etc. or they say sexual stuff to you. I just never have been sexual harassed or never experienced it. Reading all the TwitLonger stories opens many eyes including myself about this type of abuse. I hope all the best for everyone on the Yogscast platform.
4:14 This. This exact point. That’s what I think every time someone’s being an anti social fucking shithead, every time someone’s being hurtful just for the sake of being hurtful; it’s so fucking easy to just not be an asshole. Obviously I have this thought very frequently. This isn’t specifically aimed at the matter they’re discussing here; I don’t know shit about it. Just FYI.
Anyone else think it's super weird the amount of zealotry people show for a bunch of online personalities they have never met nor know much about beyond their online presence....or just me? lol
I think what Sips said on this matter was right. You think you know people, but you don't. They're just some guy on the internet, and it doesn't matter how much you think you know them, if they're in the wrong, they're in the wrong.
Xeno has some big shoes to fill now that Madcat is gone, I'm completely confident that they can do it. Thanks for the awesome edits for people who don't have the time to watch the whole VOD's
I’ve always been a fan of the Hat boiks. I’ve always admired their discussions whether I agree with them or not. This particular clip is one that I strongly agree with. I found this video on my recommendation and I’m really glad I found this video. Thank you trott for speaking about this, this is such a huge part of what needs to change and that is it should be talked about: sexual assault, consent, manipulation and exploitation. It should be discussed as a normal topic like how trott is talking about it. Thank you for this video! I wouldn’t have seen it otherwise!
Can we just get an appreciation thread for Trott because he spoke about this vary maturely and respectfully and I’m proud of him.
His twitter feed has been very good too. He is very eloquent.
they have always been very caring and supportive lads. the laughs and jokes are there for fun but hat films are genuinely good lads.
Filip Gasic No need to underappreciate his actions, just because being a good person should be the norm, it's not and Trott is doing genuine good in this situation
Echoing establishment talking points isn't mature
Context for this:
A lot of this started when one of Bouphe's friends, a Terraria streamer called Badger, was accused on twitter of sexual assault. Badger however had a lot of evidence against these claims that he made public and Bouphe came to his defence (after he posted evidence). This led to people accusing her of not standing with the victim and ignoring victims of sexual assault.
Bouphe responded by saying she stands with the victims particularly since she herself was a victim to Sjin and Turps' predation (this was the first many people including the yogs knew of this). Gee also agreed with this and these led to a realisation for a lot of people that Sjin in particularly wasn't just a guy who was misunderstood but really was a creep.
I believe (not certain on this bit) it was around then that Trott said this.
These started discussions about a couple of things.
Firstly a photo of a zoom pub quiz involving several yogs along with Sjin. Most (possibly all) of the people in that photo have said they were not aware that Sjin would be there when they were invited and were uncomfortable being there and how no interaction with him. Most of these are highly upvoted on Reddit if you wish to read them.
There was also a discussion about many things ThatMadCat had been saying in his discord. There were many examples of sexist comments sometimes predatory as well as a couple of instances of defending Sjin and Turps. MadCat has been refusing to apologise for any of these or even admit there was really an issue. This has then led to him been removed from the yogscast.
I think that's everything that's happened, if you want to see it in detail most of the first half happened on twitter and the second on reddit so should be fairly easy to find.
Madcat's been on the edge for a while now. I didn't realise he'd actually been booted yet. Yikes.
MadCat has apologized as of now (not that that makes any difference), he still has been fired though.
Yikes madcat I just checked his channel and everything is gone. I don’t follow everything that closely I had no idea about any of this.
Is it sexist for me to not see an issue with a woman making jokes about women that come off as sexist or is there more to it than that cus not sure why that would result in mad at getting the boot
Jake Pantalone oh fair enough. I’ve heard Lewis refer to mad cat as a woman before so I just assumed
for being some of the silliest, craziest, edgiest members of the yogscast, the hat boiks also seem to be some of the most open and supportive and i've always respected them for that. it seems bouphe has always been comfortable making content with them and i'm glad she (and others) can at the very least be comfortable with some guys in the office
Those who walk the line know where the line is
That's because when you let yourself go without a filter, so to speak, your mind spends less time held down. More freedom to think instead of tiptoeing around. Gotta go hard both ways so you don't upset the balance.
They get pretty serious in half of their GTA videos where they talk philosophy, politics, religion and social issues. But 2 minutes later they're talking about a 4 cheese pizza but the cheeze is dried up skin or eye boogers. Gotta love the boys.
@Kevin Choi I would personally like to know your opinion on what/how your boundary’s are to say #1: a friend you’ve had your whole life that you talk to every other month over text for like twenty minutes ( someone I need to figure out boundary’s with ),#2: someone you’ve just met,#3: someone you’ve been in the same class with in school but have only talked to a couple of times(college)#4: friends/ cousins/ brothers/ sisters girlfriend,#5: a friend you talk to regularly, and #6: first date to 3rd date. If you can tell me what you seriously, and personally think individually of those 6 scenarios I’d be grateful. I’m not that great at figuring out boundary’s and to be honest I can almost never lead a conversation that is fun/ interesting, especially at my age. You know what, I am just not good at socializing, period. If you do respond thank you and have a wonderful day! If not then still have a wonderful day you absolutely nice guy/ gal that I am definitely not trying to answer me by using sympathy or a portrayal of a false sense of security! Much love
I think the trick to being edgy in a good way requires a great understanding of such topics to know how to dance around them without being hurtful or a bad person
I've always been really proud to be a fan of Hat Films and this really made me even prouder. Thank you Trott.
As outrageous and lewd as they can be; moments like this are all the more reason to respect HatFilms, & for me at least Trott especially. They’re mature when they recognize the need to be, and are clearly wise beyond our initial recognition. They’re decent people, who are using their platforms to give good, morally right advice. Crazy respect for you guys
Always have been that's why I love them the most
I wouldn't exactly call smith a mature person, but I 100% agree tho.
The boys being sensitive...... respect due lads..... thanks xeno, and good luck
Looks like trott's hearts in right place but you need that loud smith opinion in there.
Yep
As in you need him to say something, or has he said something that wasn't in this video and we should see it?
I appreciate the energy that Smith can bring, but I also think that a quiet and reserved individual with passion in the slight rise to his voice is also powerful.
Time and place for both.
_TestBot TestBot’s question needs answering!
I have no doubt Smith 100% agrees. He’s just not as good at putting it calmly into words. Hat Films are good boiks.
Trott is such a legend. You can tell he really cares about these important issues, and I'm so glad he speaks his mind.
I’m glad that Xeno doesn’t stray away from these important types of videos as soon as they joined. Props to you M8
Seems like many areas are having tough conversations at the moment, the wrestling world has been rocked with allegations...
It's just terrible because nobody really knows what's true and what's not. I mean theres Marty Scurll ( which absolutely happened ) and then there's Matt Riddle ( is he innocent ? ) it's so bad
they've been rocked with allegations for over a year now, I would've hoped something would happen by now, but their owner is a manchild
Wrestling has had allegations for decades
@@gamingguard5895 yes it did, but the scale of the 'speaking out' movement has dragged it more into the light than ever...
@@murpaderp8461 you know that the wrestling world is far far bigger than WWE right? In fact most of the wrestlers accused of things have never worked for WWE. Wrestling is not one company
Thanks for the upload, Xeno!
As I don't regularly watch the boiks streams, I would've missed this otherwise. Good to hear what they had to say regarding all this shit that's going on currently.
Looking forward to more of both important and funny uploads from you!
Really breaks my heart hearing the people I used to look up to actually do this scummy shit man. I miss the simple days back when the yogscast main channel was blue xephos, sips and sjin duo, duncan and rythian feuds, hat films used to play dayz and trials. Never imagined turps and sjin would do such things.
your acting like they went on massive killing sprees
@@durkle1120 they did some pretty bad shit though
@@yeetusyourmeetus in the grand scheme of thing it not THAT bad
@@durkle1120 Sexual harrasment of fans and members is not that bad.... Jesus get a grip on reality man.
@@durkle1120 It is. It really is. People can do worse things, granted, and this is certainly not the extent of our capability for cruelty. But this is that bad. Because it hurts people. It destroys them. Their livelihoods, everything they knew about the people around them, and it changes the way people treat them. These victims take a huge step in terms of bravery and courage, and saying "it's not that bad" is incredibly hurtful to the movement over all.
I looked up to these guys as well, but when information presents itself, the smart thing to do is alter your opinion. And with the overwhelming evidence against these guys, no more support should be afforded to them. They did terrible things and potentially ruined lives. It needs to be talked about, understood, and overcome.
Good guy Trout
That's our Salmon boik
@@freeza12341 Best Boik
I think he actually covered every topic pretty well, even mentioning that there are male victims of abuse which rarely gets mentioned.
He's a good egg.
HappyLarry he never mentioned how people shouldn’t blindly believe everything they hear. So much false claims going around right now that is ruining lives
Trott really is such a good guy...i appreciate him and the other two so much. Proud of people with a platform who are speaking out about these kind of issues and proud to be a fan of these guys 💛
I feel bad for Lewis, Simon, and Sips. Lewis told certain people to stop doing things and they said they would stop then they went and did those things again when he trusted them. And Sips... good ol' Sips. Sjin was like the peanut butter to his jam/jelly. They were like, inseparable for so many major projects and seemed to have such a good chemistry. Sips is a loving father and husband and as one of longtime yogs I know it can't be painless to find out his former buddy's deeds. I never really liked turps though. Dude was like a shittier Ricky Gervais.
Caff was an ASMR creep, Turps was fun at times but literally always talking about or bringing up something sexual, but Sjin just felt like one of the good guys. He was one of the last people I would have suspected of anything
@@branominal Real
@@branominal I mean, here lately a lot of old yogs are talking about how some of the people making accusations are uh... Just bad people, Kim apparently raised a lot of hell towards some of hat films and tried to make them seem worse than they were... All in all I think a lot of the stuff that happened is true, but so far sjins allegations seem to be more of just accusations that came out and they acted on to cover their butts, sjin still talks to a lot of the yogs.
@@TheDictatorsKingdom gee and boupth both gave evidance of him doing things to them soo?
@@livingglowstick1337 no... They said there was evidence but as it was never provided, no legal action was taken, and sjin is still walking free it would be wrong to consider him guilty, right? I find it unrealistic to say the least that sjin would still be walking around if he actually did the things they said he did. Stop simping for the yog girls, it's bad enough Kim, bouphe, and Hannah have single handedly ruined the yogscast reputation, we don't need people taking the law into their own hands and destroying reputations for clout.
I love the Hats, first and foremost because they just... talk. When they have a topic they want to discuss, they don't beat around the bush, they don't use colorful language and metaphor, they just shoot straight and make their stances known. Though they are brash, chaotic, and unfiltered, they're good lads with strong opinions, and a collective mindset that allows them to sensibly discuss sensitive topics. Whether they split into opposing sides in a debate, or join together in order to support an ideal (with the current situation being a great example of that), they can speak their minds in a respectful and poignant manner.
Continuous! enthusiastic! consent!
Don’t assume, ask.
And when someone goes public with complaints of abuse listen to them.
Trott was great in this. He’s really a stand up guy with a lot of heart
And this is why I will always respect and admire these three, they’ve always been my favourite creators in and around the Yogscast, well educated and funny, but also teach younger audiences how to act in a way, a bunch of good influencers
Thank you boys
So true. These three always had the ‘bad guys’ persona (in a funny way) of the Yogscast and the three of them are just so fucking golden as humans. Well rounded, mature, level headed. Well, Smith adds more salt but the three of them are just such good men.
Thanks for taking the reigns in this absolutely awful time, Mr/Ms Phyte. And big props to Trott for openly voicing his stance.
this is why I’ve watched them for so many years
xenophyte is gonna have huge growth now tho. thatmadcat being deleted makes this channel the go-to for yogscast clips
Why did the mad cat get canceled?
@@edgarmoule9825 Wasn't canceled, he left before the apologize or be fired train got rolling, and he had nothing to apologize for.
@@BuddyBanchuk if he had nothing to apologise for, he wouldn't have left and this video wouldn't exist
@@BuddyBanchuk He had plenty to apologise for. He said some really yikes shit, which is perfectly in line with what some of the other yogs do, the difference being that he said this yikes shit directly to fans and singled out individuals in the community rather than it being part of an "act" like the others do on twitch or youtube. When confronted about this he refused to apologise or admit that anything he had done or said could have been considered offensive or rude, even when several people had asked him to stop because his "edgy humour" was making them uncomfortable. He dug his own grave and refused to take responsibility for his actions until it was too late, and he desperately attempted a pretty pathetic apology video because he was already being kicked out.
@@edgarmoule9825 Said some dumb shit, people jumped on him and tried to find everything they could, dude got kicked out for being a muppet with testicles for a brain.
I started watching the Hat lads when I was definitely too young (Probs like 12 lol) but now, at 21, I'm so proud to be a fan of them as genuine, kind-hearted, respectful and good people. Love the Boiks x
I've never heard something so heartfelt from Trott. Very admirable. Love you guys.
As brash, unfiltered and childlike the Hat Boiks can be, I’ve found myself, after watching them for years now, to be so much more understanding and always keep perspective around anything. They’re highly opinionated but are so level headed, wish I heard Smith bring his fire to the conversation.
Real smart and genuine TWATS but people perceives them to be the most immature members of the yogs
Innit
It took me a while to see more depth behind their crazier antics but I'm glad I stuck with them for that reason :) I think they actually balance each other out very well
Trott, the real boik, the best boik
this isn't just about internal yogs assault, idk if yall have seen the HUGE movement in twitter addressing harassment in the gaming content creation circle, as well as in games industry
this is a movement to out the abusers of the world, support each other ❤️
good on the hat lads though, it's good to hear you guys talk about this, your voices are as important as some people may hear your opinion & start to understand the bigger picture ❤️
p.s xeno congrats on joining the yogs❤️ your content is top tier keep it up
You mean like #metoo where many innocent men lost thier jobs and has thier lives ruined because some women took advantage of the situation.
@@umadbroimatroll7918 Oh, sod off!
@@alexs.5871 why because I'm speaking facts?
@@umadbroimatroll7918 No, because you're a victim-blaming piece of shit.
As someone who has experienced sexual assault, and have people blame me for it or blame my clothes for what happened. I can honestly say this is one of the most mature and genuine conversations on the subjects I've seen. Thankyou, it's nice that this is finally being talked about respectfully. It's really nice to know that theres some people out there who will have your side.
It's respectful until they disagree with you? Do I read that right?
@@ValkyrieXI2 I dont think so. I was saying how these guys have chosen to talk about this topic respectfully whereas alot of times I've tried to talk about it with some "friends" its end in me being the one blamed or disrespected
@@faelyndawnlake is asking you what you we're wearing disrespectful? In my mind its a necessary part of invastigating and getting the whole picture. It's just data, not an insult. How you interprete it is a wholely different matter. I don't know what happened to you, and I don't know what your "friends" told you after all. But there are a lot of people *on the internet*, people who are spinning the narrative mind you, who are just offended by data, the question "what were you wearing?," without a motive.
I'll extend an olive branch to you and say: If they told you its your fault because of what you wore, fuck them, I'd have cut ties to them a long time ago and good on you for booting them.
This how ever over all is exceedingly rare.
I hope you're doing well
@@ValkyrieXI2 first thankyou some days are worse than others but overall I think I'm okay.
Asking me what I was wearing is not disrespectful. I was wearing a long sleeved baggy tshirt, a hoodie and some Jean's it was a cold day in january. I was in a relationship with him at the time so alot of people said he was allowed and didnt need consent.
@TubNub ?
Well im just finding out madcat was an actual member of yogscast today, thort he always just recycled others content only,,? Many years ago I tried to call myself a yogscast fan, but with every new person I saw it just reminded me that I was only ever a Hat Films and Sips fan really, no matter how hard I tried to like all the others
Very important. Thank you Trott.
I 100% am behind the Yogscast on this. They are dealing with this in the best way possible and I love them all dearly.
Absolutely. I hope I don't regret saying this but they seem to be a real good role model when it comes to examples of handling shit like this. Zero Tolerance, no non-apologies and I'm glad so many of the Yogs are taking the time to speak out both against it and against defending and/or minimising it.
@@RAFMnBgaming people like Lewis are also just so sad it got this far I saw him talking about how he spoke to an individual, they told them they'd stop etc. And they betrayed that trust he had in them.
How is this in any way the best way possible? They're literally just hopping on the MeToo bandwagon of "guilty unless proven innocent."
@@captaincomic8678 These people have been proven guilty, that's why they're in fucking trouble.
Trott is my son. I have always been proud of him but never more so than seeing this! Chris, you have always been a wonderful caring soul and am so glad you are able to show everyone what I have always known! Keep it up! So, SO proud of you and the guys for giving victims a voice! Love you xxx
Allegations need to be taken very seriously. Skeptically, empathically, and seriously.
The main issue with trying to be skeptical is the stigma around questioning the victim. Most sexual harassment allegations have rather sparse evidence due to the nature of the crime (Being non-confrontational, not reliant upon the taking of something, leaving no marks ect)
In these cases the only way to prove the victim's accusation is to fail to disprove it. Which is why so many of these cases revolve almost entirely around grilling the victim. Most of the time people can't be skeptical without trying to contradict the victim which is victim blaming, forcing them to re-live the experience or putting undue pressure on the victim.
It's just a disaster and I stay the hell enough away but unfortunately the police often get dragged through this minefield as do, to a lesser extent, anyone trying to form their own opinions.
@jakechinn what about innocent until proven guilty, that’s the only way real justice can ever occur. Don’t dismiss allegations, realize anyone you respect could be doing horrible things, but if you don’t prosecute and judge people based on innocent until proven guilty then we’ll begin living in a lynch mob society.
@@globalbondfan1 Nope. Innocent until proven guilty is always misunderstood as a be-all-and-end-all. In cases like this (sexual assault) presumption of guilt tends to occur. There is a rebuttable statement of fact (X was abused by Y) and the burden of proof shifts onto the defendant (Y) to show why/how these allegations can be disproved. From my understanding, this is what Badger was doing and Bouphe supported whatever evidence they provided.
This has been common practice for centuries in certain cases. It applies to instances where there is a large amount of testimonial evidence with no evidence provided by the defendant (take DMBrandon on the recent Smite scene with 7 corroborating allegations and no evidence from him), or if the defendant was, to say, take flight before trial.
It seems like initially Badger was accused and to be presumed of guilt by the community, and has since provided evidence himself.
I will clarify that all I'm trying to do is discuss your comment on "real justice" and innocent until proven guilty, I have no educated opinion or knowledge of the exact accusations against Badger or whatever is going on. It's just a generic point.
I'm not trying to be patronising or antagonising just want to point out some legal stuff and why we shouldn't be worried about a lynch mob society (after all the law hasn't changed - the presumption of guilt does/has occurred for many years).
I hope you have a good day :)
And that's how men spend 50 years in prison for a crime they never committed
@@Dracoriax Innocent until proven guilty is a concept on how to treat the accused not a procedure on finding them guilty. It's just a moral leaning towards not punishing people in anyway until you are sure they are guilty without a reasonable doubt.
What you're talking about is Burden of Proof AKA whose job it is to actually prove something. The Burden of proof lies upon the person making the positive claim, I.E 'There is a god' or 'You did something' as they are the one asserting something. The person defending themselves from this makes a negative claim, I.E 'No there isn't' or 'No I didn't' and generally doesn't have to bring forward evidence against the crime itself, instead they contradict and disprove evidence made for the positive claim.
It's done this way because it is often impossible to prove something false on it's own basis. For example you can't prove that something doesn't exist if it actually doesn't. The only way to disprove something is to prove something else. So it's a lot harder to find evidence and that evidence is easier to dismiss as it has no correlation to the crime. For example you may be unable to prove I was at the crime scene but if I can't prove I was elsewhere, under your logic, you can just assume I was there.
This combined with issues around being able to accuse anyone of anything then THEY have to run around disproving it. Then can be punished simply because of a lack of evidence in their defence while having none to condemn them. So yeah, bit of a mess.
Though I will say that you mostly had all the ideas down just that initial presumption of guilt you mentioned shouldn't be happening in the first place.
Consent is like tea. If you wouldn't force someone to have a cup after they said no why would you make them have sex?
"And on that note, I'm going to make myself a up of tea..."
James, I like the cut of your jib.
the spiffing brit sweats profusely
And if at any point they're no longer enjoying that tea, they don't have to finish it.
not a perfect example, i know plenty of people that would force you to still have a cup
As hard as it is to talk about these things, but I’m glad that Hat Films addressed this in this manner. It makes me love them even more, and respect them more, I am proud of Bouphe and Gee for sharing their stories. Admittedly, it has given me the courage to talk about my own experience with sexual assault. It’s like a huge weight lifted off of me to be able to finally talk about it.
I'm a stranger, but I'm really glad for you.
And sometimes people don't talk about when they were taken advantage of because it was a long time ago and they don't feel that anyone else would take it seriously, even if to them it was an event that shattered their perceptions of things and still has a negative side effect on them to this day... and they don't want to stir up old stuff.
...
*sigh*
Or the statute of limitations is up...
I mean, to be fair, it's not "odd" for the justice system to rely on evidence. We don't want a system where literally any accusation results in sanctions against another. Or a system where your case hinges on how convincing you are as a person.
There are two primary issues when it comes to involving authorities: 1) You risk not being taken seriously. It can be very traumatic and transgressive to contact and involve a stranger in something rough, shameful or embarrassing that you're going through. 2) In case you do go to court and the defendant or their lawyer think they might have a bad case, they will attempt to drag you through the mud to either discourage you from continuing to pursue a particular case, or to change the opinion in the courtroom. Obviously that's not very nice.
But are the any obvious solutions to that? Not really. That's what makes all of this so difficult. It's never as simple as "Just listen to women!" or other popular slogans. Because, yes, of course we should listen to anyone who claims to have experienced something traumatic or illegal. But when the claim is all there is, doing anything about it is nigh impossible.
This is very true. I wish people could literally step back and take more neutral approaches to issues such as sexual harassment.
Maybe it's just me but it's ok to support and listen to victims or potential victims AND not assume guilt based purely on an accusation, I believe there is a middle ground.
@@wizardswine yes but the internet does not share that opinion, accusations are all that matter here
Completely agree. If the justice system worked off of just accepting someone's accusation, so many innocent people would be incarcerated just because some ass-hole wanted to ruin someone's life or try to get money out of them. Evidence IS important, specifically so you don't accidentally fuck up an innocent person's life. I also believe in a middle ground.
@@brandonrichard9568 As has, sadly, been the case in some cases where the allegations were proven false after the trial had happened. Innocent people, most often men, have spent time in prison and been labeled for life because of crimes they didn't commit, because a judge or jury decided that, in a case with little-to-no evidence, the accuser was simply more credible than the accused. To allow such a bias to rule is to pervert the very notion of justice. The resistance to such a system would only further undermine the work of legitimate victims, as those frustrated by such a lob sided system would no doubt seek to discredit absolutely anyone and everyone coming forward, as discrediting the accuser is frankly the only way to defend yourself from an empty allegation.
@Rakinjo2 And the worst trial is the one that takes place in the court of public opinion. People have been able to prove themselves innocent in a court of law and they will still have their reputations ruined because of allegations proven false, and many will commit suicide because false allegations, simply because no one will believe them. And honestly it’s sad how people think this is modern, cancel culture has been going on since we were calling people witches.
Being a male victim of sexual assault...
Thank you
Here here ❤️
Why this comment doesn't have as many replies as others..
LeSnakDiggs that shouldn’t make you any different. You deserve every respect that any other victim receives
Seems like #istandwithtrott is legit now, lol. I'm glad they discussed this without Smith present. Love the guy and all but this topic requires tact that Smith isn't known to have.
8 months late to the party, but while I agree on Smith's lack of tact, I feel like it isn't from a crass place, as I see him make the same errors I end up making in conversation. I suspect (and suspect only) that, like me, he struggles with uncomfortable situations like this and the only way he can really "deal" with them is to crack jokes. A lot of people I know get on my case for it, and the simple truth is that I just can't fully wrap my mind around the situation and verbalize how I feel about it. "Deflect and/or crack jokes to hide the internal struggle" kind of thing.
Absolutely stunned at how professional Trott was, well bloody done.
Unrelated, but I’ve been binge-watching the Jaffa Factory series and it still hurts that Sjin wasn’t just a guy who flirted with fans but was actually a pervert. Obviously I’ll continue to watch it but damn man it still just aches to know this stuff.
Person 1: "Do you have any chicken?"
Person 2: "No."
Person 1: "Understandable, have a good day."
Person 1: "Do you want to have sex?"
Person 2: "No."
Person 1: "Understandable, have a good day."
Sex is not some mystical thing to be sought after, it is just a thing. Sometimes they have sex to give to you, sometimes they don't. Some restaurants don't serve chicken, some people don't do sex. You don't see people forcing vegan restaurants to make chicken, do you? You don't see people forcing a restaurant to make chicken that they've run out of, do you?
Some people prefer homemade food, and that's ok. Some people prefer to know someone personally before knowing them intimately.
Some people don't enjoy eating, and only do it for survival. Some people don't like sex, and sex isn't necessary to survive.
Some people prefer to make their own food, and that's ok too. Let them have their rabbit pie and a wank.
Different people have different appetites and libidos. You can't control either, and you can't force people to like what you like, or to do what you want to do.
If someone says no, respect that and politely move on.
Not sure if you’ve copy pasted this or just written it out, either way, this is a great articulation of consent that HOPEFULLY everyone understands. It’s sad that we feel the need to do this, you’d think humanity was at the point where basic morality was the standard
@@depecher6s311 I typed it out myself haha
Thanks for the compliment, and yes, it is a tragedy that people still don't understand one of the most basic words in the English language, and one of the most basic concepts in contemporary society. It hurts me to know people are hurting, I just want everyone to be ok. Humanity is better than this, I know it, and it's awful that some people drag us down to their level.
Spatial Awareness so true brother, let’s hope in a few generations we’ve bred out the toxicity that we are plagued by
I'm now more woke, and hungry
There's a great video if you search 'tea consent' that takes a very similar approach to your post and is a great short, lighthearted approach to the topic if anyone needs something to point people at.
Officially joined Yogscast? Timely
Chris Trott. Fuckin Legend!! This is just one of the reasons i love the Hat Films Boiks.
Trott’s a good lad, Hat Films crew is just wholesome
Wow just been reading up what happened poor bouphe and gee we need to stand by them it's going to be hard to accept and hell was not expecting Thatmadcat to get involved I remember the shock about sjin and turps and I didn't understand at the time but now I know and understand why they left we need to send a message saying this is not ok
ThatMadCat got involved?
@@owenmiller7488 and their refusal to apologize
I just feel so sorry for bouphe and gee they had to live with that and they didn't speak up suffering in silence
Nani?!? What happened to Bouphe & Gee?
I need the deets
@@heyojayo8642 They were victims of Turps and Sjin too
I like that you put the source in the description!
This is really good to hear. I've watched the Yogs since 2011, and watching everything fall apart in the last year has been heartbreaking. I have to say though that simply sticking to written statements and then not commenting further is just not good enough. I believe that the only proper form of action is an inquest and action taken through the courts. This is for several reasons: I no longer have confidence in the Yogscast to handle things properly; important things such as transparency, victim support and the presumption of innocence have been neglected. For the record I DO believe those who have complained, but the way that this has been conducted has led to trial by social media with only some details available. These people appear to very much have done wrong, but I think there could be a case for libel if people aren't careful, Yogs management included as well as people commenting. So far, standing with the victims has been made up of making a statement then 'moving on'. Non-disclosure agreements are not justice and may leave room for further harm in future.
IF there is reason to believe that former or current members have potentially committed a crime, then it should be referred to the police who will decide if immediate action is required, and the Crown Prosecution Service will decide if there is enough evidence to go to court. Anything less is not enough.
Their code of conduct was broken but crimes were not committed, the police was informed, and they have no reason to make public the contents of their inquiry. They made decisions with outside consultation and their conclusion was that these members displayed a pattern of predatory behaviour for which their contracts would be terminated. If they did this without sufficient evidence then they would have been sued for wrongfully terminating contracts and libel, since in civil court the burden of proof would fall largely on the yogs. At the end of the day this matter is best kept internal to protect the victims, and whistleblowers.
@@zoravar.k7904 Frankly that doesn't stand up. It is not necessarily so that crimes were not committed; it can also depend on people wanting to press charges. At no point is anonymity of victims and whistleblowers in jeopardy, that's not how that works. It has not been adequate at all. Given that these are public figures who have ready access to people who may be vulnerable, transparency is important.
@@monarchist100 this is an internal matter, as far as all parties are concerned everything was done by the book. If victims want to press charges that is between them and the CPS, the fan base has no part in it. Victims will not be happy about the circus that will ensue if this became public. They may be public figures but this case should not be tried in the court of public opinion. At the end of the day there were breaches of contract and the contracts were terminated. We have no right to know everything, and it would do the community no good as it would simply divide it further. There is already plenty of statements from various affiliated parties and some physical evidence public. This was by no means just one statement from the yogs.
Edit: they have already been 'canceled', anyone who looks them up will know the nature of their offense, so I don't think it puts more people at risk.
Not wanting to cause problems for my family is entirely it. If I could persecute the multiple men who have sexually abused me, without my parents having to know the details as it would break their hearts, I would do it in a second.
I'm really sorry, you shouldn't have to go through that, and it's not your fault. I hope you can find justice someday, in some way.
I find that whilst the truth is a hard pill to swallow in life it is also the most likely to engender change for the better.
People who commit a crime are more likely to do it again. I don't know life in your shoes but for the sake of hurting your parents offset that against both your and other potential victims wellbeing.
Stay safe and well.
Sometimes these things coming out can break a family and sometimes they can heal them. I was shocked to experience the latter. I feel for you
@Tom what trott said just resonated with me and I felt like he was creating a place to be able to mention it. Also I don’t know who a few of the males were and was young. I appreciate the comments. I feel a lot of guilt that I didn’t feel able to go to the police. It’s a complex beast
holy shits i can relate. It is a whole other issue when the people responsible are someone your family trusts.
I’m a male, but there have been multiple cases of people doing things(I would rather not say what) towards me that made me very uncomfortable. The worst part is I’m sure that these things do not measure up at all to those that happen to women.
Hope you're doing well, it's not an easy load to carry.
Thanks boys, it's good to have you all behind us ❤️
This was absolutely fantastic.
Wow. I honestly would have never expected this from trott when I first saw him and hat films make their debut.
But I for one am pleasantly surprised on realising just how much of a down to earth person he is
Thank you for this trott and I'm sorry that 14 year old me ever doubted your seriousness when I first saw you
You’re my hero Trott, you’re the best boi ❤️
I stand by Chriss Trott and forgive him for what he did
I too stand by and forgive Chris Trott, despite all the allegations.
those poor orphans
The children had it coming, what were they doing near a school anyway?
I'm a black guy in America, and all I got to say is mad respect for that statement Trott. Humans are at their best when we express genuine love and understanding.
its a stupid fuckin statement bro.
Trott and Ross are really cool people
Oi I rate Smith
@@saulmackie5988 Imagine actually liking alsmiffy lmao
Alternate title "Trott says some hard truths"
Good on you for joining the Yogs, Im not a elitist fan of yours saying i knew about you before the other guy or i only watched your videos but im happy to start anew with you and cant wait to see the content you put out
There's been more major dramas in the yogscast than minor dramas in my real life.
It makes me real fuckin happy to see the boiks being mature when it's important, and immature for our entertainment
No matter who you are male or female, black or white, young or old, poor or rich, etc. if anyone is taking advantage of you please speak up. We are all equal and if someone isn't treating you like one then that needs to stop. We are all in this together so we need to act like it. Treat human beings as human beings. Please don't think you have a voice and that people won't be behind you, you do and we are. Bring evidence to law enforcement if you can and speak up, please. Human rights apply to all and anyone who violates those rights must be punished. Read the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, know your rights. They deserve to be respected and protected, and while we still must respect innocent until proven guilty...that doesn't mean they aren't guilty.
Another thing, "it's one persons word against another", of course it is, but you have to realise that the person getting accused, whether guilty or not is more than likely going to have their life ruined by that, it's no good siding with the 'victim' all the time because that might not actually be the victim, and you're inadvertantly destroying the life of someone who hasn't done anything wrong.
It's very difficult but I do think there is a middle ground that needs to be achieved. A way to not immediately assume someone's guilt and create and environment where an accusation isn't a life-sentence, whilst also listening to and supporting victims or potential victims.
It's bloody difficult but I believe it's something we should strive for when trying to find the truth. I'll be honest I think the yogs, whilst it was by no means perfect, dealt with the situation quite well.
It was done very privately, no one was immediately fired without investigation and all claims where taken with a grain of salt and not blindly listened to, and I believe they made the right decisions.
@@wizardswine I agree entirely, I just disagree with some of what Trott was saying here, or at least the way he phrased it.
What are the recent events he's talking about
Sexual assault allegations, lots of people are sharing their stories of assault on social media and some Yogscast members have come out with their stories about ex-employees.
@@bloodmurcy Yep, ThatMadCat was recently fired from the Yogscast following sexual comments made on his discord server.
@@Hootiefish is this a joke or fr? I've got no clue whats going on
Cam Rayner for real. His entire channel is gone. Madcat decided that after being outed to destroy all videos.
Cam Rayner not a joke sadly, check thatmadcat’s channel, all his vids are gone
#istandwithchristrott
Thanks for this, XP!
I love that Hat Films are some of the silliest and loudest members, yet they can be some of the most respectful and inclusive bunch. Big reason I've been subscribed for so many years
This is why hat films are my fav youtubers because they talk real shit
Which “abusers” are they talking about specifically? I know there were Turps and Sjin issues but that was ages ago. Has something new happened more recently?
Probably referring to recently it came out that Sjin sexually harassed Bouphe and Gee, on top of all the stuff with Twitch and some streamer networks being shitty
Recently Bouphe and Geestar revealed that they were also victims of Turps and Sjin. Bouphe stood up when someone said that she was aware and complicit of the harassment that happened
Dye Anna where did they talk about that, do you know? I had no idea any of this had happened
@@SQUIISHY2304 Twitter but there was a Reddit thread too I think
Lachlan Hilton. It was on twitter, also there was a reddit thread where Tom and Harry spoke about it too
I love how all we ever hear is hat films messaging about in videos but when they are serious they sound so sinsere
Play hard work hard
I mean his hearts in a great place, but to make a note on the last thing he said about not having evidence, while it's horrible if the crime was an actual thing that happened that doesn't mean you should just outright believe the victim without proper evidence. It sucks ya but that's the world we live in and crimes like rape are easy to get away with and are also just as easy to start false rumors for. If you were to take every single person at face value, then I imagine a lot more people will just get falsely accused because the accuser knows they could get away with it.
We already know Sjin and Turps did a lot of bad things so what Bouphe and Gee have said isn't hard to believe.
thing is though, it's not about 'believing' a victim without evidence, it's about not just dismissing them if they don't have any immediate evidence to hand. Or even about not just dismissing them at all without any kind of investigation. "Believe victims" doesn't mean we should, without investigation, deem the accused as guilty, it means we should believe that the victim has gone through something traumatic they deserve compassion _while_ it's being investigated.
If we say that people should only come forward if they have concrete evidence, then fewer people will come forward, allowing the problem to perpetuate. Not to mention that while false accusations do happen and are really terrible, they are far less likely than real ones.
(sorry for the long reply, I'm kinda passionate about this)
@@yourearsaregreen You're completely right.
dtc white yeah I think the language is an issue here but that’s usually the case if you try to condense a whole movement into a single catchphrase. I personally use “listen to victims” because I think it’s gets across this point a bit better. I can see why people want to use “believe victims” because still when someone experiences assault their story is picked apart in a hostile environment (like police interview) which makes them feel like they _aren’t_ being believed and makes the whole experience that much more traumatic. There are better ways of communicating with survivors and I think the Netflix series _Unbelievable_ shows this so much better than I can explain here so I highly recommend! Its also a great show too.
@@yourearsaregreen " It means we should believe that the victim has gone through something traumatic they deserve compassion while it's being investigated."
What you're saying amounts to giving people a reason to lie and produce fake evidence, rewards for nothing and as long as it is inconclusive they get a reward encouraging this behavior. I've seen groups abuse this to write the VICTIM off as the abuser by making the claims first.
People lie for personal gain, and more so when there is less risk... to believe and support a cause without hesitation end up getting YOU abused and makes things EASIER for the abusers. It lets both the good and bad take the road.
Skepticism is important, otherwise it just becomes an easier tool for abuse with reward. Otherwise the information you get is built on confirmation bias. This is why you MUST operate neutrally or get taken advantage of.
Smidy must have been grooming his horse.
Big up trott
Trott leaning into the main takeaways from this. We should all check ourselves in our interactions with others. We've all made mistakes and it's important that we all try to really be Better and if necessary take real Accountability. I think lots of cancelling happens, but some of it is necessary and some should seem "martyr-like" but it's more of setting actual precedent. These things need to be talked about. You'd be surprised how hard And easy it is to respect other people, especially those who have experienced so much disrespect.
Entertainers r people. And entertaining is their platform. They're selling themselves as figures worthy of our consumption.
In summary: Good things are good, bad things are bad
And water is water, you have opened my eyes.
What a beautiful boi
I’ve honestly decided to avoid Yogcast stuff for the future, not in the defense of anyone but I’ve been thinking about it for awhile since I barely watch their content anymore and these recent events have just escalated my decision
@1234 What is a real job, in your opinion? Something that makes money? In that case, they have real jobs. If someone finds something they like doing and figures out a way to make money from it they should be allowed to do so (I have some exceptions to that argument). That being said, like all people and organizations, the yogscast are in no way perfect, as evidenced by the events that have gone on recently. I do not think that it warrants a complete cease of yogscast activity though.
How the hell do these guys not have a million subs... They're amazing
It would be nice to go on the Internet without being constantly harassed by men, you think someone is your friend then they turn out to be a pervert that's just using you as a toy. Also having to hide your gender, turning private messages off just so you won't get hit on. Harassing women seems to be so normalised , when is it going to stop being called awkward flirting.
Barring some truly pathological overreaches, I think it's fundamentally a feature of life. Men have to get out there and take initiative. If they give up at the first hurdle, they are quite likely to miss out on people who aren't fundamentally against them, but merely need a bit more convincing. It would be as if a salesman gave up the moment someone expressed tenuous initial disinterest; ludicrous. Once we accept this much, it becomes a question of when tactful courtship veers off into inappropriate social conduct. Good luck finding an answer that both sounds right and could actually work with human beings, the bizarre, irrational and horny creatures that they are :S.
I actually think about this sometimes even as a guy. It seems annoying having to deal with thristy guys all day.
almost out of yogs i actually trust... thank god for hatfilms
I'm glad they did. I didn't really know who they were when they joined but I think they seem to have been a net gain in goodness for the yogscast.
Sensible to do this without Alex.
This is a really good comment, thoughtful and not polemic
Ok, so....I'm seeing a lot of people dismiss a lot of this kinda stuff as "just flirting" and I think I should probably explain something.
Women, typically don't WANT to flirting you with them. Especially at work. And especially especially if you've had very few social interactions up until that point. You can try maybe once, but unless she reciprocates then it a good rule of thumb is that you're kinda creeping her out. I know this is like a big part of our social interaction and we're like kinda influenced by the media to think of it as a totally acceptable form of communication, but typically speaking.......yeah.
Just food for thought.
That's very true.
I never would've known that this type of abuse would ever happen in the Yogscast. I've been watching the Yogscast since their first Minecraft video (9 years ago) and watching them for some years (can't remember). Twitch wasn't even a thing 9 years ago so they only posted videos on their YT channel(s) that I loved to watch everyday (I was 21 at that time). I didn't watch as much of Hatfilms (They joined like 4 years later after the first Minecraft video) but during the charity streams that the Yogscast and Hatfilms did, I enjoyed Hatfilms with their friendly banter, laughter and also their creativity with music. I have never ever been bullied like this online because I am cautious about it. Sure, we all get messages from people saying that you are bad at a certain game etc. or they say sexual stuff to you. I just never have been sexual harassed or never experienced it. Reading all the TwitLonger stories opens many eyes including myself about this type of abuse.
I hope all the best for everyone on the Yogscast platform.
What recent events?
It came out that Sjin sexually harassed Bouphe and Gee
Synthesis Mallow oof.
@@taylorgrace1 turps did too
On top of the redacted issues, the gaming industry as a whole is going through a period of outing sexual and sexist abusers.
That's all good that these things are happening (as in action is being taken)
As easy as it is to not a piece of shit, it's even easier to be one.
There are some people, who are out there... behind you...Ready to push you into the canal.
Most Important thing for me is to reflect on my perspective and criticize my own systems and beliefs, if they survive judgement they get stronger!
The age of the cat is over, the age of the xenophyte is just beginning...
4:14 This. This exact point. That’s what I think every time someone’s being an anti social fucking shithead, every time someone’s being hurtful just for the sake of being hurtful; it’s so fucking easy to just not be an asshole. Obviously I have this thought very frequently.
This isn’t specifically aimed at the matter they’re discussing here; I don’t know shit about it. Just FYI.
In case you guys had forgotten about this too.
Hong Kong protests are still going
Liberate Hong Kong.
The revolution of our times.
FEELS FUCKING WEIRD MAN
Yogscast is full of Amber Heard like characters.
You may have to give the authorities access to your phone as well...
Anyone else think it's super weird the amount of zealotry people show for a bunch of online personalities they have never met nor know much about beyond their online presence....or just me? lol
I think what Sips said on this matter was right. You think you know people, but you don't. They're just some guy on the internet, and it doesn't matter how much you think you know them, if they're in the wrong, they're in the wrong.
Xeno has some big shoes to fill now that Madcat is gone, I'm completely confident that they can do it. Thanks for the awesome edits for people who don't have the time to watch the whole VOD's
#trottsright
I’ve always been a fan of the Hat boiks. I’ve always admired their discussions whether I agree with them or not. This particular clip is one that I strongly agree with. I found this video on my recommendation and I’m really glad I found this video. Thank you trott for speaking about this, this is such a huge part of what needs to change and that is it should be talked about: sexual assault, consent, manipulation and exploitation. It should be discussed as a normal topic like how trott is talking about it. Thank you for this video! I wouldn’t have seen it otherwise!
It is awful and sickening, the victims are extremely brave for speaking out.
Yes 👏👏 So much love and support for every single survivor.
Trott being a bro at 0:00
You've gotta takeover from ThatMadCat now
Really nice to watch this. The hat boys are so good