I'd be interested to know how accurate your Garmin estimates of VO2 max and specifically the detected lactate threshold HR and pace are compared to the lab results? PS such a great vid and love that you have no qualms with sharing your data to help others 👍
Just a small note that a higher lactate value doesn’t necessarily mean they’re using more carbs (as using met lactate in blood). One can have a low lactate (below LT1) and still be using a large percentage of carbs when shown in the RER values. They could have high mitochondrial power to process a lot.
I think generally speaking higher lactate = higher carbs - (we’re not comparing two athletes) the suggestion is as lactate rises (that’s a sign of the body using more carbs as fuel. With rer in mind, there’s a direct correlation between rer getting closer to 1 for example and lactate rising. That same person who has a low lactate but they’re using a large percentage of carbs (ie they’re not very good at fat oxidation) but still, if they’re lactate was 4 and not 2, the higher lactate still suggests more carbs.. even in that example.
I agree, elite athletes are able to use far more fuel in the form of carbs than club athletes at higher intensities, and may be producing extremely high levels of lactate of which most is re used as fuel, the remainder which we measure accumulates in the blood. So to get to 3.5mmol the likes of Jacob would be working hard with high glycolitic oxidation, and could be running 20x400 at 60-62 secs which is a measure of mitochodrial efficiency, in fact Vo2 measuring is becoming obsolete and is largely irrelevant for marathon runners, it is just a measure of general fitness not specific RE or LT2 which are far more relevant. Just a minor point on the reference to Lactic Acid....it is not a thing and has no part in muscle fatigue or failure, it is the build up of +H ions which we can't measure directly but are closely correlated with rising blood lactate levels. George Brooks and Inigo San Milan are leaders in all things lactate and Bio energetics. Great video 👏👏
@@stephenscullion262 But you can see fat/CHO burning rates from your O2/CO2 data, so no need to guess. Measured lactate is a concentration, so if you were dehydrated or your blood plasma changed due to altitude training), your lactate levels would be higher.
@@stephenscullion262 That might be right, but I thought the simple way to look at it is that lactate indicates how much anaerobic activity is going on in the muscles, because lactate is made by muscles when they're working anaerobically. So the lactate graph jumping up shows at what effort level your body's aerobic system can't handle the workload, and hands it off to the anaerobic systems.
Awesome insights and astute analysis Stephen. I also like your positive approach to decoding the numbers and not getting overwhelmed by it. Keep it up my man 👍
I have done a lactate test. Sometimes the measurement went wrong, because of less blood on the lactate-strip. So then it cost some extra time to get in a new strop into the lactate-meter. Does this influence the result of the test?
@@justjustjoo + or -? Mine is off by a few units compared to the lab result (about 5 units down) I would prefer it this way rather than being too optimistic
@@cristian-adrianfrasineanu9855 Garmin estimate is lower than lab. This is because I'm not very economical at higher speeds since I run more on trails and have developed my Vo2max in steep hills.
sounds like a bit of soreness or inflammation from the 5k effort might have pushed up those lactate numbers (there is research that shows that does happen). So i wouldnt be concerned that something is going wrong just yet. The high Vo2 max is excellent, and what you would expect given you just did a 5k PB. I'd be focusing on race pace efforts over variety of terrain, hills etc in the lead up to your marathon
Hi Stephen just found your channel and loving your previous videos!! Do you have any videos for working out heart rate zones with field tests? If not any recommendations or sources? Thank you
I mentioned it a while ago but you might have forgotten-makes me wonder if using the Garmin guided lactate threshold test (that you can do with a Garmin watch & HRM) could be useful if you don’t have access to a lab. I guess everything not done in a lab will have flaws, but if nothing else, being guided through the test may be of benefit😂I may just have to get my butt into gear & give it a go, but I don’t have any other means to compare it to (no lactate meter/lab)
I'm curious to see an update once you do more lower zone training - will you be able to fully maintain that very high VO2 max and build up an even bigger base? Keep us updated on that since I am very interested in potential dropoff (or lack of dropoff)
Yeah, I don’t think the V02 will drop, and to be honest I’d like it to be higher. (Not just that figure “75” which relies on body weight “your maximum volume - it’s divided by your body weight” but ideally I’d like to see my maximal oxygen uptake higher than ever before - I think it’s been 5650 or so.. 13 years ago. That said the training wasn’t only geared towards improving V02 capacity over the past 2-3 months. To be honest it was more general “zone training” simply put, covering all the basics to try and improve each area a little bit. That said there was a little more dedication to V02 or harder efforts you could say with the 5k in mind (but only slightly) I’d imagine with the 5k now gone, and a little more patience it might improve further because I’ll not force certain speeds in the V02 capacity sessions, knowing the 5k was 64-6 per lap, I likely forced a higher effort to run that pace. Now I can simply focus on effort, and perhaps the benefits will be greater. The key is learning how often do you need to work on V02 etc.. to keep it in a good place or how many to improve it. Then we decide “ok is it worth it” etc
Hi Stephen! At what point in the training block should we implement VO2 max training? I think I recall you saying there is only a 6-week window to improve VO2 max? Thanks!!
Not 6 week window, but likely 5-6 sessions aimed at improving V02 capacity will bring you to your max for that moment in time. As other areas of your fitness improves then so would your ceiling for having a higher V02, but they won’t improve quickly enough in that 6 weeks for that ceiling to improve. Hypothetically if you did a V02 capacity session like 15 x 400s at you 8-10 minutes (race) effort with 75 secs jogging rest, and repeated every 8-10 days, after 5-6 sessions you won’t see much improvement (if you retested V02 etc) in other words to improve V02 further will take much more time and lots of work in other areas, thresholds etc.. which will also improve V02, but slower. (These changes are a must in order to improve that ceiling) which means in 2023 your ceiling might be a V02 max of 65, right now it might be 55 because you’ve not done any V02 capacity work, after 5-6 sessions, we see it move closer to 65, but to raise that ceiling to day 68-70, that might take 1-2 years of base work, improved threshold, and other areas etc..
Sir, I am watching your all the videos, will you train me for the full marathon, I am 63years of age, I want to share with you that I contacted Mr. Rayan Hall but his fees is very high, out of my budget, If you will train me ,what will be your fees.
Irish and Texans: “tired” 🤝🏻 2:52
I'd be interested to know how accurate your Garmin estimates of VO2 max and specifically the detected lactate threshold HR and pace are compared to the lab results?
PS such a great vid and love that you have no qualms with sharing your data to help others 👍
Just a small note that a higher lactate value doesn’t necessarily mean they’re using more carbs (as using met lactate in blood). One can have a low lactate (below LT1) and still be using a large percentage of carbs when shown in the RER values. They could have high mitochondrial power to process a lot.
I think generally speaking higher lactate = higher carbs - (we’re not comparing two athletes) the suggestion is as lactate rises (that’s a sign of the body using more carbs as fuel. With rer in mind, there’s a direct correlation between rer getting closer to 1 for example and lactate rising. That same person who has a low lactate but they’re using a large percentage of carbs (ie they’re not very good at fat oxidation) but still, if they’re lactate was 4 and not 2, the higher lactate still suggests more carbs.. even in that example.
I agree, elite athletes are able to use far more fuel in the form of carbs than club athletes at higher intensities, and may be producing extremely high levels of lactate of which most is re used as fuel, the remainder which we measure accumulates in the blood. So to get to 3.5mmol the likes of Jacob would be working hard with high glycolitic oxidation, and could be running 20x400 at 60-62 secs which is a measure of mitochodrial efficiency, in fact Vo2 measuring is becoming obsolete and is largely irrelevant for marathon runners, it is just a measure of general fitness not specific RE or LT2 which are far more relevant. Just a minor point on the reference to Lactic Acid....it is not a thing and has no part in muscle fatigue or failure, it is the build up of +H ions which we can't measure directly but are closely correlated with rising blood lactate levels. George Brooks and Inigo San Milan are leaders in all things lactate and Bio energetics.
Great video 👏👏
@@stephenscullion262 But you can see fat/CHO burning rates from your O2/CO2 data, so no need to guess. Measured lactate is a concentration, so if you were dehydrated or your blood plasma changed due to altitude training), your lactate levels would be higher.
@@stephenscullion262 That might be right, but I thought the simple way to look at it is that lactate indicates how much anaerobic activity is going on in the muscles, because lactate is made by muscles when they're working anaerobically.
So the lactate graph jumping up shows at what effort level your body's aerobic system can't handle the workload, and hands it off to the anaerobic systems.
These videos are pure gold - thanks Stephen!
Awesome insights and astute analysis Stephen. I also like your positive approach to decoding the numbers and not getting overwhelmed by it. Keep it up my man 👍
I have done a lactate test. Sometimes the measurement went wrong, because of less blood on the lactate-strip. So then it cost some extra time to get in a new strop into the lactate-meter. Does this influence the result of the test?
Incredible how accurate Garmin VO2max prediction can be
And incredible also how inaccurate it can be. Mine is off by 15ml/kg/min.
@@justjustjoo + or -? Mine is off by a few units compared to the lab result (about 5 units down) I would prefer it this way rather than being too optimistic
@@cristian-adrianfrasineanu9855 Garmin estimate is lower than lab. This is because I'm not very economical at higher speeds since I run more on trails and have developed my Vo2max in steep hills.
sounds like a bit of soreness or inflammation from the 5k effort might have pushed up those lactate numbers (there is research that shows that does happen). So i wouldnt be concerned that something is going wrong just yet. The high Vo2 max is excellent, and what you would expect given you just did a 5k PB. I'd be focusing on race pace efforts over variety of terrain, hills etc in the lead up to your marathon
Hi Stephen just found your channel and loving your previous videos!! Do you have any videos for working out heart rate zones with field tests? If not any recommendations or sources? Thank you
I mentioned it a while ago but you might have forgotten-makes me wonder if using the Garmin guided lactate threshold test (that you can do with a Garmin watch & HRM) could be useful if you don’t have access to a lab. I guess everything not done in a lab will have flaws, but if nothing else, being guided through the test may be of benefit😂I may just have to get my butt into gear & give it a go, but I don’t have any other means to compare it to (no lactate meter/lab)
Thanks a lot. You touch my weakness....I have to work on that...
GREAT Video!!!!
Thank you
I'm curious to see an update once you do more lower zone training - will you be able to fully maintain that very high VO2 max and build up an even bigger base? Keep us updated on that since I am very interested in potential dropoff (or lack of dropoff)
Yeah, I don’t think the V02 will drop, and to be honest I’d like it to be higher. (Not just that figure “75” which relies on body weight “your maximum volume - it’s divided by your body weight” but ideally I’d like to see my maximal oxygen uptake higher than ever before - I think it’s been 5650 or so.. 13 years ago. That said the training wasn’t only geared towards improving V02 capacity over the past 2-3 months. To be honest it was more general “zone training” simply put, covering all the basics to try and improve each area a little bit. That said there was a little more dedication to V02 or harder efforts you could say with the 5k in mind (but only slightly) I’d imagine with the 5k now gone, and a little more patience it might improve further because I’ll not force certain speeds in the V02 capacity sessions, knowing the 5k was 64-6 per lap, I likely forced a higher effort to run that pace. Now I can simply focus on effort, and perhaps the benefits will be greater. The key is learning how often do you need to work on V02 etc.. to keep it in a good place or how many to improve it. Then we decide “ok is it worth it” etc
Fantastic insight to what goes on behind the scenes 👏👏👏
How often would/should someone vo2/lactate test?
Hitting that stretch band every stride would have driven me nuts. Looked like it put you in a rhythm.
How to reduce lactic acid by food and drink
Good video!
Also, what brand is your shirt?
Hi Stephen! At what point in the training block should we implement VO2 max training? I think I recall you saying there is only a 6-week window to improve VO2 max? Thanks!!
Not 6 week window, but likely 5-6 sessions aimed at improving V02 capacity will bring you to your max for that moment in time. As other areas of your fitness improves then so would your ceiling for having a higher V02, but they won’t improve quickly enough in that 6 weeks for that ceiling to improve. Hypothetically if you did a V02 capacity session like 15 x 400s at you 8-10 minutes (race) effort with 75 secs jogging rest, and repeated every 8-10 days, after 5-6 sessions you won’t see much improvement (if you retested V02 etc) in other words to improve V02 further will take much more time and lots of work in other areas, thresholds etc.. which will also improve V02, but slower. (These changes are a must in order to improve that ceiling) which means in 2023 your ceiling might be a V02 max of 65, right now it might be 55 because you’ve not done any V02 capacity work, after 5-6 sessions, we see it move closer to 65, but to raise that ceiling to day 68-70, that might take 1-2 years of base work, improved threshold, and other areas etc..
@@stephenscullion262 this is one of the most useful pieces of training advice i’ve ever received. Thank you 🙏🏼
Sir, I am watching your all the videos, will you train me for the full marathon, I am 63years of age, I want to share with you that I contacted Mr. Rayan Hall but his fees is very high, out of my budget, If you will train me ,what will be your fees.
Is this the same video that was deleted yesterday when I was 90secs from the end?
8:02 Graph is wrong visually relative to reality. 0.5kmh steps should move half as much as 1.0km/h steps on the x-axis. Now they are same gap apart.
Amazing 😊
Where did you get this done? Is this in Northern Ireland? Looking for somewhere in NI to get this done?
Jordanstown with SINI
Good video
Is the guided lactate threshold test on Garmin watches of any use?
Have never done it
The burning of carbs produces lactate.. your body doesnt NEED lactate to burn carbs
First, do you use nmn?
😂 have you been watching coach Greg?
@@MilanSmore no…. 😂
I see you start to speed up the video 😜
So many variables 😢
Wouldn’t it be better if they put treadmill outside.
I think that lab is better because it's a more controlled environment
@@gacusrunner2004 HR will be higher inside? Meaning results won’t be accurate
@@leafulchermasterunnerif it’s controlled it shouldn’t be higher
How does the mask account for you breathing out your ass if its only measuring at your mouth and nose?
😂