Mind Your Language: Thought, Metaphor and Imagination
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- #BrianGreene #NoamChomsky #StevenPinker #EvelinaFedorenko #DanielDor
Noam Chomsky, Steven Pinker, Evelina Fedorenko, and Daniel Dor join Brian Greene to grapple with the foundations of language.
Language ranks among the most powerful influences on human existence. Even so, language presents many mysteries that are the subject of heated debate. Was there a rewiring of the human brain which gave us the capacity for language? Or is it a human invention developed to facilitate group cooperation? Is language primarily a communication tool or the substrate of inner thought? And how is it that with a few choice phrases language can fire the imagination or transport us to the stars?
The Big Ideas Series is supported by the John Templeton Foundation.
Participants:
Noam Chomsky
Evelina Fedorenko
Daniel Dor
Steven Pinker
Moderator:
Brian Greene
WSF Landing Page Link: www.worldsciencefestival.com/...
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The content of this channel being free is the biggest gift in RUclips, let's all take a moment to appreciate that.
Hear, hear!
Yes-- I am poor, and yet I have access to this! It is amazing to me-- I am so thankful!
Word. WSC is TED on steroids. Knowledge without the self aggrandizement bullshit.
788⁸⁸6
Yes I agreed
sometimes i struggle to watch long intellectual conversations. but when I overcome that barrier worlds of dynamic beauty and endless possibilities open up. And I am grateful.
"We are a thinking species, but we are not thinking very well... if some extraterrestrial intelligence is watching us, they would think that we are insane " 🤣🤣🤣 Chomsky is a human monument. Thanks, Mr. Greene this is the best show on RUclips!
and in the meantime: language is communication between individuals in a group. We mediate, form and reshape our thinking as individuals with our group to be able to have a reality that we can live in. The reality of the individual and the group has to be coherent. I think this is where we go wrong. The size of the group that has to share this coherence is drastically bigger and more complex than before. Communication is not even enough to creat a peaceful shared reality, we need psychology to understand why, where and what is going wrong in our communications and how to fix it to be able to share our world. How to keep diversity alive and be flexible to live and let live. Not to shut others off, creating narratives that only serves some and repress, oppress others. We have to use language to communicate, imagining will not be enough. Some people have pretty bad imagination, no creativity but posses too much power and many of us want to creat a very different new reality.
Communication face to face.
Sometimes I do not understand why I misunderstood repetitive sentences and it's very annoying to say the least. Any thoughts on this? Anyone...
@@selihter maybe because you do not want to understand it. Repetitive or not, you just didn't like it from the first uttering. (Was it repetitive? Again?)
If they lived among us, then they'd know it lol
I am a musician, a composer, and a writer. The possibilities of rhythm are endless . But what we as humans find appealing in music, is the rhythm of life around us and language. That which makes us feel, is what attracts us to music.
Even most educated musicians are attracted to music that makes them feel, or remember. Our music is mostly limited to that which imitates the rhythm of our vital organs, or our surroundings. Our music is evolving along with our species. Our thoughts are evolving. When radio and television came to be a part of every day life in our society, we started to listen to music on a different level than we did in the past, where we only heard music if it was played live. Now an old song on the radio can transport us back in time to the day when we first heard the song, or to the time when the song was popular. Music has the ability to elicit our thoughts, feelings and emotions. It is one step above language by itself, in allowing us to communicate with each other . I believe that in the future, most everyone will play music, or be evolved with the arts in one way or another.
As computers take over our jobs that require manual labor, or take up our time and consume our thoughts, we will start to find other more meaningful ways to spend our time. Playing music with friends, and improvising, is going to be one of those things we will choose to endeavor in. It is a communion of the mind and spirit. I also believe that some of the ideas that have risen from religion, will be scientifically proven. And some of the ideas that we consider to be a scientific fact today, will one day be disproven. As our society evolves, we will search for other ways to fill our time, that make our lives more enjoyable, and gives our existence more meaning. All of this arose from the evolution of language , and our need and abilities to share more complex feelings and thoughts.
Id love to hear more insight from your endless possibilities of rhythm, bro!
I am longing for a deep connection with another human that may only be possible via music and this connection involves feelings, hearing, imagination and tears. Are you able to understand what I mean by this? Please share your thoughts from your perspective ✌️
I’ve enjoyed the programs on this channel immensely. I’ve never attended a traditional college and haven’t been exposed to a lot of these ideas, studies and thoughts etc about languages and how they have come about and developed over the past centuries. The same goes for math and sciences and everything else. It’s so amazing and interesting and even at my age I continue to learn so much about our humanity, about the cosmos, about life. It’s proven to me that I could live several lifetimes and spend all my time studying and still not know everything, not even close.
It is often said in college, "The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know much at all." Keep learning and World Science Festival is a great place to do it. I like the newer stuff with Brian Greene a lot better.
You compose your thoughts and write pretty well!
10 years of you tube. i can honestly say hands down , this is one of the best videos ive viewed to date.
i see another side of brian greene here too. incredible video , hope to see more like this
Isn’t it just. We’re watching at the same time how amazing hahahaha
I have to correct the dear, dear professor Chomsky. The bacteria did not "accidentally swallow the other bacteria" to create eauchyriotic cells that make all of us. The two bacteria fell in ♥️love♥️. Them running into eachother was no accident. The two bacteria's love was so strong that it spawned all this creation. It's quite incredibly amazing what love does on the cosmic scale. Love is also the essence's essence that makes us experience, which the dear professor said no one knows. Many of us know... ♥️♥️♥️
I know a 40 year old man with brain damage due to an auto accident that happened 20 years ago. His ability to do anything that a 20 year old man takes for granted, did not exist. Through time and therapy peppered with love raised him back up to still not able to everyday activity without assistance. Progress in the last 3-4 years has been interesting in that upon introducing him to another friend who teaches tai chi. Although the progress in his lessons Is slow in moving through each new position, his brain seems to be growing in its capacity to excel in his ability to speak and to move with more intention than before the tai chi came along. The complexity of thought has increased along with his annunciation of words has been amazing. The capacity to understand has also had significant progress. One way that proved to me was not only his increases that I can see, it was other people that were unaware of his tai chi lessons. And others said how remarkable his progress has been. Certainly enough that they are compelled to mention it with enthusiasm. I’m thinking he’s developing new neural pathways that may have been spared in portions where certain attributes may have an unbroken pathway. Emotions are strong. And he occasionally needs to be talked out of a particularly problematic emotional stimulus. Observing him and assisting with some of his needs that have a distinct expression of progress, is very rewarding. Takin in part of his life for the past few years has created a great friendship between us. Of which I am very grateful. The brain is amazing.
This is true love, shared. Lovely.
Steven Pinker said "at the intersection of linguistics and poetry and literature is a good metaphor". I simply adore that.
I would put it this way: at the intersection of spoken language and literature is poetry. Metaphor is in everything we think or do. We are metaphorical (mentally) beings, unlike no other. Its how we 'think'.
Said the "learned woman"... And the 25 people who like this post!!! Don't think ur quite there ... Good try!!! Said the"peasant"!
@@kimshaw-williams Is it how we 'think'? OR how we think we 'think' or how we "think we think we think"? OR how we ” 'think’ ”we” think we 'think’ " . OR is it something different all together?
Sooooo incredible watching this, reminds me of how we used to label other cultures as savages simply because we couldn't understand their language. The attitude behind this is disappointing... We see plenty of communication and coordination in other species including plants, and we haven't done enough research to even understand those languages, let alone claim ours is sooooo special
I agree with you
O9i
Aaaaaaaaaaaaa
Very true but it goes both ways. Humans are very harmonious as long as our "needs" are met in one way or another. It's the betrayal or misunderstanding of one another's "needs" that usually end up in miscommunication and unfortunately.. lots of tragedy.
If we can all learn to empathize with one another more often, im sure it doesn't matter what language you do or don't speak :)
Tricky subject for sure 🖤🤍
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Mek4f
words are the experience that signify how the vastness of experience is a constant synergy which needs no repeating
Norman that's a bore hole to the heart of it.A?
U can get lost when ur too deep man. Interesting thought but explains only ur personal perception.
Another amazing video from World Science Festival. I’m so grateful for Brian Greene and all the scientists for sharing.
Thanks BG and WSF. We need this stuff more and more now during these (unbelievable) times of increasing anti-science rhetoric and misinformation. Cheers
Chomsky looking like Gandalf. Holy. Brilliant man. Hope he lives forever.
I just talked to my friend this lol
He will, but not always in Physical.
Eďď,a
Apryl
By forever, do you mean may he still live even longer? Is that a metaphor for the enrichment of your life by extension of Chomsky's life?
@@cosmicwakes6443 I don't mean it metaphorically. I realize immortality isn't something we can do. It's just losing a mind as brilliant as his is a tragedy at any age
Brian Greene and Noam Chomsky what a gift
❤️🛰️🚀🔭🪐❤️
Dude lost me with the global warming crap. Stick to what you know bro
Didn't know the guy Greene till today. He's very good.
Chomsky is cool until he gets into politics and proclaims America is the most pure form of evil in the universe.
@@fabiant6686 Uhh, Mr. Chomsky is quite aware of the rapidly-developing climate crisis and he is absolutely correct that it is the #1 (huge) problem facing humanity.
@@xlynx9 Exactly! They should have had someone like Jordan Peterson on INSTEAD... to tell us how the United States (along with Western Civilization) is the savior of mankind, using nothing but platitudes and conjecture as evidence.
I mean why listen to someone who uses real data and rigorous scholarly research to back up their claims....?🤷♂️
The weakness of Pinker's argument is that making the sound is NOT about the individual, or the individual's thoughts, it's about passing the thought, need or want to another individual, probably from the baby to the mother initially no matter what animal. Babies of many animals make sounds that alert the parents to a need. Humans however have taken that very simple system of sounds and developed it into a myriad of different complex languages dependent on their location. The precursors of language are abundant in the animal kingdom both terrestrial and marine. Pinker has always had a critical rivalry with Chomsky. Both can be correct and incorrect at the same time. It depends on the issue. Maybe I should do my own thesis!
You might want to!
Please do...
Some of this talk reminds me of my most favourite movie called 'Arrival', 2016. This movie was a linguistic dream.
Fantastic movie
¿en serio? horrible movie, stupid movie, inneccessary movie
@@DoubleG1960 Good for you
Beautiful movie ! 💗
Fantastic movie !!!
Very fruitful program, thank you very much! After listening to the valuable speakers, i came up to an ordering maybe need to consider. Brain language sequence ( from very basic, primitive and maybe powerful to complex and more naive): 1-communication to the body, 2-self awarenes and maybe id and ego, 3-empathy, 4-gestures and mimics, 5-logic and mathematics, 6- spoken languages. First three is for self communication, the rest is outside world communication to objects, living things mostly mammals, and humans.
The paradox is the more precise language and coherence becomes, the more meaning making and genuine collaboration becomes more inefficient.
I communicate both energetically and telepathically as a receiver, albeit with passed on loved ones & those on the Other Side, can you imagine getting complete thoughts & feelings & then having to find the limited words to explain the energetic feelings, telepathy is sometimes words, & sometimes in the daily.
The problem is that consciousness is not yet understood, nor is taken into consideration in the study of neurology, which I understand fairly well, so I would say "The day that man looks to psychic phenomena, we will learn more in a decade than in all the previous centuries combined"- Nikola Tesla
In a program about communication and thought I'm surprised there was no mention of the communication that is constant between the two halves of our brains.
That is purely neural, bro, surely? All we can tell, i think (maybe) is that when yous ask people about places/spaces they look to the right? And for names and words to the left?
@@heidih3048 Metaphorically speaking- maybe...Your comment is like a used diaper.
"When humankind begins to study psychic phenomena, more will be learned in a decade than in all previous centuries combined"-Nikola Tesla
What about communication through telepathy and energetically, where you can actually feel what the other person feels or feel what they want you to feel if they have the power to do so. I experience this communicating with the Other Side, when you leave out consciousness, you can't understand communication, & who cares about language when there are better ways to communicate that science ignores because they can't think outside the box. It's proven every day.
Simply brilliant! Fantastic speakers! Beautifully directed! High quality of the program preserved despite zoom calls.
Novasedna; May be the followup this night is even more Relevant ?!.
.
L
I completely agree. Does not make Pinker or Chomsky right about origin of language, however.
I view math as a language and I can honestly say that thinking in that language itself is a very profound experience.
I am not fluent in any other languages, but have taken a year of HS Spanish and one of German later. I have glimpsed similar, though to a much smaller degree, feelings after learning enough to form full thoughts in those languages.
Math is such a difficult language, as there is no one way to describe an idea, however there are very distinct meanings behind the symbols used.
I think of the next step of just words like, analogy or metaphor (in whatever language you choose to say them) approaching yet being so short of isomorphism.
It becomes again the ability to try to comprehend something void or infinite - then taking a system containing such and show it is inwardly consistent with another such system.
I feel mathematics has an accuracy that can be reached in thought that spoken language lacks, because analogy and metaphor only work so far.
Ultimately I think that there is something to understanding that isomorphism, (a purely abstract mathematical concept rigorously defined) is the thing we reach for, delighting more in analogy and metaphor the closer they become to isomorphic.
✔💯
Math has been described as the "Universal Language", (I don't speak it so well, lol. My Grammar far exceeds my Math!)
Sociology, Journalism, and Ancient History are my degrees and Art/Artist, Decor, particularly Floral Design are pmy natural born gifts.
My eldest sister is the Math Wiz, but she can't pick out a kitchen wall color other than light neutral yellow (for 30 years). No, Really.
I can learn any Math, given the instruction, i.e., "the Instructor is adept at communication,.
That doesn't mean I could/would become consistently smooth at it...
My mind literally tells me to shut off the buzz and get out of the room when Math is the subject + I smell chalk. 😁
Bless you analytical Proficient Minds.
However, I really love Quantum Physics, if it weren't for the Math, I'd be an Einstein!
I seriously feel Quantum Physics is best Mastered by those exceptionally skilled at "Whole Brain aka Dual Hemisphere Thought" The fusion of R and L Thought.
Example: Philosophy + Logic, in tandum = Whole Brain Thought
I do however appreciate *"the Golden Ratio", Fibonacci Sequence, Geometry Patterns, and calculating the % of my Commissions on my Block of Business. 😁
Best Wellbeing ...
🎨
On ted talk, the universe is perfectly tuned to sustain human life 🌏science doesn't believe in luck creator creation existence 🤍🗽💎👨✈️💖👻💎👩✈️💖👻💎🛶🌪🎭🌪🌬
Also, you can view art and music as a language also that expresses one's inner feelings. Ideas and thoughts
I never passed pre algebra 🤦♂️
@@Thundralight Indeed. And those artistic sentiments a reflection of external forces re-imagining the world in a unique way, possibly even as a unique metaphorical expression of culture and lived experience.
I was just thinking, it’s great that now we have free and unlimited access to these kinds of discussions, that was not possible before the internet era
This turned out great! A classy banger featuring some legit heavy hitters. Totally worth the wait, and I'm not just kissin ass!
NOW From Theater TOWARDS REALITY I Just POSTed. !!!
Damnnn Sue!! Well said my friend! WSF is a certain kind of WorldSeries of Talks!
Yikes... the future is bright and don't you ever forget it! There is always something to learn, discover and create which keeps the mind and heart uplifted and evolving.
Chomsky is just saying that world leaders are choosing to basically completely ignore the rapidly-developing climate change crisis in favor of short-term thinking and the furthering of massive monetary profits for the upper 1% or so. He is saying that IF these world leaders were to alter their usual short-term thinking to longer-term thinking which includes moving toward solving crises on many different levels, THEN the future is brighter and less ominous than it is right now.
Yea the future is bright because it's on fire. Get your head out of the sand. Climate denial is a reason the situation is getting worse.
That drags to my Followup from last night!!!. Best Wishes Starting With My Included Advice!! I liked your Reaction as Most Promising up till now. Thanks, Kees de Vos
You are an inspiration. I wish there were people like you irl
Fabulous stuff.. I thought I was in a ageing decaying body heading for certain death..
The quote by Gustave Flaubert at the end of this fantastic episode of WSF is what has the potential to bring you through another year of existance. Nothing less. Not kidding.
I attribute that reality to the absolute value of the "Universal Law of Attraction".
Quantum Physics - my favorite Science People!
This was excellent! Thank you to you Mr. Greene, and the distinguished participants. The format to, was incredibly professional. What a pleasure to wach!
Kevin, Since I Got A Grandchild That Carries Our Capital K; I Once Had The Choice To Associate Colour With ? Attitude ?? Do Check Anyone's Followup Please.
@@keesdevos4816 Afternoon Kees. (Or morning/evening I guess, depending on where you are). Hope you are well. I apologise in advance if I've missed something obvious.. but I really don't understand what you are asking. Are you saying your grandchild also has a first name that begins with a K? That's what I understand from your message. Then, are you asking what colours are best associated with the letter K? And what my attitude, (I would say thoughts), is/are, regarding these associations? To give any type of coherent answer, I would really just need you to clarify what you are stating and any questions you may be asking me. I'll do my best to reply. As it stands, I have no idea what you mean.. and like I said, I apologise if I've missed something.
@@kevinblackandwhite8273 Your advance apology is appreciated. Or, I should say- WAS appreciated (MAYBE still is).
I love you Dr. Greene.
From Pakistan
PLEASE ALL YOU'S READ FOLLOWUP ALREADY IN YOUR BOX. ING IS MY BANK> YOU'S YOUR Abilities Of Some Pro Now CING(S)ING LIKE KHAN (sorry for my memory fails remembering names and Faces. my experience on this moment would advise that the mathematical "motor" of our eyes litterally are best served by skipping vast majorities of incoming info so not to confuse the possibly best way of Traumatised Practice = installed top functioning of our eyes. But only Honest = To Say Realistic, Programs Will Work. So Watch One'S Mood \ Progress / Or Downfall = MOTHERS (From One'S PAST???). PLEASE TAKE ME as Serious As Necessary RAY (For Me Quite Some Symbolism Potentially ?!?!?!. In Hope I Strive As Well We Can Consider. Good Luck.
That was a great gathering. I immediately thought of Elaine Scarry and Dreaming by the Book. Language builds up an imagery and communicates through images. I think images are the very fabric of metaphors. And great literature happens when a certain Flaubert draws a wonderful, delicate image in just one sentence, bringing together all those seemingly irrelevant words, turning them into a pulsating heart.
Ebro, Fantastic; I Immediately Recognize Similar Sensations. Watch My Followup From Last Night, and I'M Not Done Yet. MARK MY WORDS. SEE YOU LATER. THANKS KEES DE VOS
“[G]reat literature happens when a certain Flaubert draws a wonderful, delicate image in just one sentence, bringing together all those seemingly irrelevant words, turning them into a pulsating heart.” I love that!!
How I experience the metaphor you expressed, “bringing together all those seemingly irrelevant words, turning them into a pulsating heart,” is as an “impression.” It’s like what the art of the Impressionists were trying to capture and convey, I think? It’s like, if you asked me to visualize a red apple, and then visualize a green apple, I cannot see the visuals, but I have a felt-sense in my body of how each evokes a different impression. I can’t see red and green in my mind, but I can *feel* each. My imagination is predominantly somatic! I think the experiences involved are Touch, Body Sensations, Movement (both in motion and urge to move), and Emotions.
I’m interested in how others might experience your metaphor of the beating heart; I think I’ll actually ask a friend - she’s an illustrator like me who has predominantly visual mental imagery! I’m learning more each day how the way my mind interprets the world cognitively is not universal, and just how varied the way we all experience things on a fundamental level are :D
@@christianross6865 Hi Christian. I highly recommend Visual Thinking by Rudolf Arnheim. Great book. And in fact I think Howard Gardner's Frames of Mind is truly an interesting book with lots of observations, notes from studies where he knitted the beautiful theory of multiple intelligences. Illuminating experiences. I am sure you will find experiences very close to yours in that book.
We speak with languages, but the soul speaks with implications.
Things that happen only once, IS by pure design, and the creations that came out of it are DIVINE!
I agree with Noam on the subject of language being a function of thought first, communication second.
I personally talk to myself and use dialog with other's to stimulate thinking and working out things in my mind.
Communication first thought is generally trivial, shallow thought used for transactions and entertainment.
Thought is communication though. We make the mistake of identifying ourselves as being the body. The body does a great deal of its own accord. It might terrify most people how little control they actually have. We are very good at fooling ourselves into believing that we know something.
oh!---YES!--the cave man had feelings way before thoughts--grunts//laughs--bursts of air during pain--hunters point right and fellow goes left and there is a grunt of dis-satisfaction--then comes full blown language for communication--but most of the fruitful com comes from inner thought---"Sheeeesh, i told him to go right"
Oh and thank you, I learned a lot from your guests🌻🌲💜
Information is the heart of everything in this world. And language is the world where information lives. Incredible what we have stumbled upon in this short time. What will we discover next?
Dr. Green. You are uncanny in your ability to anticipate the questions many of us would ask in these conversations.
In listening to all of these rather bright, articulate individuals endeavoring to grapple with the fundamental nature of language as a tool of communication, with its connection to thought, with its evolutionary origins, with its development over time, with its diversity, and with it utility in terms of human culture and society, I can't help but be struck with the sense that we are still a long ways from fully grasping and comprehending the basic essence of this whole baffling linguistic business!
Wow, man. I feel that with every new knowledge, an infinity opens up, and we have to grapple with this infinity before we hit dead ends and find new knowledge that in as much as it explains our dead ends, it opens up another infinity and the circle continues. It is like a language being updated as time goes on, with new definitions, new tricks, and stuff. Sometimes, I think that the current language that we have does not ensure the communication of the intended meaning. A slight misinterpretation of one sentence, summed over all the conversations that are currently going on globally, in every village, every city, means that the ideas of people on both sides of these communications are not optimally synchronized. I dream of a day when language ensures optimal synchronicity of meaning and the least possible error in communication. However, I have great hope that the development of such language will come by as an eventuality, as an emergent phenomenon of the population that talks that language.
In the same light, I sometimes think that this "synchronicity" is different across many languages in the meantime, and taken averagely over general population, this might provide a sort of evolutionary advantage in terms of meaning to some groups.
The only person Ive missed was Prof Chernigovskaya! Started her career in Philology, then Linguistics. After that she went to anthropology, then made Dr.title in Biology, and nowadays she is one the most prominent russian scientists(St.Petersburg State University) in Neuroscience, Psycholinguistics and the Theory of mind!
Another influential russian linguist is Igor Mel'čuk with dependency grammars and Meaning-Text Theory. I had the chance to meet him in Montréal.
And I love the reflections on creativity and the mystery of human experience - and I admire the very inspiring way of focused and critical reflection on not thinking and acting globally e.g. The climate crisis and the covid crisis - both being totally global
🌷❤️
Brian Greene is an incredibly good source to put complex science into layman’s terms. His metaphors do exactly that. It puts unfamiliar terms into things we can mentally compare with.
I agree. Yep...until he was interviewing Pinker...suddenly his questions got less incisive....or was that just my imagination? No, it wasn't, I reckon Brian was starstruck, what do you reckon?
@@kimshaw-williams What I reckon was said in my initial comment.
THANK YOU So mUCH Brian. Congrats for the best youtube content!
Keep Watching !!!. So WE get VIRAL ASAP. Thanks for yet another of My Interferences.
....when we long to move the stars...❣️❣️ amazing !!
Jesus christ referenced living waters 💎👨✈️👩✈️Tesla referenced human energy 👻 science described water memory 🌊🎭💎psalms 33:6 psalms:16:24kj proverbs27:19 existence psychologically spiritually 💎👻💖👸👨✈️💖👻💎importance is of Jesus christ god bless 💎🗽🤍👨✈️💖👻💎👩✈️💖👻💎🛶🌬🌪🎭🌪
Sir Brian Green your wisdom is beyond the sum of your interviewed.
Your questions are more important than their answers.
What is important is the right question.
Answer is in the question for if you ask wrong question you get irrelevant answer.
Thanks for your wisdom, diligence and hard work.
Paul, I totally agree, until it came to his interview with Pinker. Didn't you get a sense of mindless adulation?
Mr. Greene you're a visionary; already using a "metaverse" as an alternative to a physical space for these conferences in order to keep on publishing this amazing content while big companies out there have just an announce their own metaverses.
Whether Chomsky is right or wrong I feel like he's operating on another level. He's trying to get at fundamental explanations for language and thought, while the others seem to be satisfied with providing descriptions.
I agree
Forgive me! I was late for listening to Noam Chomsky, Evelina Fedorenko, and Daniel Dor. A huge thank you to WSF and to Brian Greene for creating and sharing these talks. I do look forward to making time for listening to those three speakers later tonight. 🌸
Language is communication between individuals in a group. We mediate, form and reshape our thinking as individuals with our group to be able to have a reality that we can live in. The reality of the individual and the group has to be coherent to a certain point. I think this is where we go wrong. The size of the group that has to share this coherence is drastically bigger and more complex than before. Communication is not even enough to creat a peaceful shared reality, we need psychology to understand why, where and what is going wrong in our communications and our actions. How to fix it, negotiate to be able to create a shared world. How to keep diversity alive and be flexible to live and let live. Not to shut others off, creating narratives that only serves some and repress, oppress others. We have to use language to communicate, imagining will not be enough. Some people have pretty bad imagination, no creativity but posses too much power and many of us want to creat a very different new reality.
😄😏😚😁🦁
I agree completely; the comment about psychology ought to be highlighted. It's my belief that until psychology is well accepted and understood, our world will be stuck in limbo, as it is now and has been, forever. (Not sure about early Greece and ancient Egyptians.)
Thank you very much for producing and sharing this format!
Keep us thinking Brian Greene and guests!
Great program.
I think the key point that is being missed is that even though originally the language was developed for communication, but once we were able to consistently communicate with structured, albeit primitive grunts that turned into utterances of words (languages), the basic primitives - noun, verb, subject, object, and tense came about which provided the set of lego blocks that can be put together to think and express thoughts in. The notion of tense is also key here which allows humans to play out future scenarios. The primitive language was the scaffolding or foundation on which the facade or structure of thoughts could be built. And then, precisely because of that, it bootstrapped humanity to rapidly diverge from other species. And the very fact that primitive language was a tool for communication between individuals, helped us to first think thoughts internally and in a consistent manner, convey them to other individuals.
Why is it that even scientists like Einstein tell us in linguistic terms, the way they were thinking of brand new, original, abstract thoughts like the theory of relativity? That shows that they thought using language. And clearly, many of Einstein's thoughts were in German the language he spoke. So there is something to what Nom Chomski is saying.
Crap. He 'saw' it, or he 'dreamed' it, or 'thought' or 'imaged' it, and THEN he found the words/mathematics (and that probably took a hell of a lot longer) to express it. He was a bottom-line empirical man that created the NUCLEAR BOMB, not a floozy of a linguistic philosopher(wordsmith) like our beloved, saintly, Gandalf-like, ineffectual Chomsky!
@@kimshaw-williams Great comment
@@kimshaw-williams Uh, chomsky basically revolutionize the scientific field of linguistics, and there's reason he's the most cited academic of all time compared to dunning-kruger posterkids like you.
@@agenthex Don't get me wrong man, I really like Chomsky, but he is just plain wrong about the beginnings of language capability being a genetical leap. I think it must have been a long (like 3million years at least), 3 steps forwards, two steps backwards process of genetic/cultural/behavioral co-evolution. He's dead right about everything else, especially socio-politically, as far as i can see, anyway. All animals communicate with their conspecifics, and plants as well probably, in different ways. If you want to talk about why we 'intentionally' communicate using all sorts of modalities, (because we have self-aware, self-and-other tracking minds) read my two papers in Biological Theory (2014) (2017). What, you think people who can't speak or hear, like Helen Keller, don't have depictive thoughts/stories (like dreams or films) running through their minds?!! Before they get a sign language? You got rocks in your head then, brother! Read 'A Mind So Rare' by Merlin Donald (2001). Also, I'm not a poster-kid, I'm 70 yrs old, so stop being so fucking rude, dude. I looked up what dunning-kruger means, because I had not heard it before. How very quaint. Why not say what you mean in plain English, instead of trying to be a clever bastard (and sounding therefore like a social fly-by-night and the-seat-of-your -pants poseur). Have you ever actually had an original thought? No? Not even a vision or two? Well maybe that's your problem.
@@kimshaw-williams Hi. I am trying to find the articles but I can not. Could you please let me more info to find them? Thanks
Absolutely love the discussion. The words we use are incredibly powerful and can change how we feel in an instant.
Lowers your vibration, grab an apple and curse at it in front of your mouth for 20 minutes and then cut it open, it will be brown in the middle...
Words are very *effective* yes
No they are not “ powerful “ 🙄
@@falsehoodbasher7240
I agree, words are effective in illiciting emotion but we can also describe them as powerful.
Powerful = having the ability to control or influence people or things.
Words are powerful and can change your mood in an instant.
@@101Lovinglife I know
The definition yes.
That’s why I said
they’re not power
they don’t have
The ability to
Control nuh. In
fact we control
our tongues
and our pens
*and* our ears
too to top it off.
You’re reaching
when you say
words have
“ power “
@@falsehoodbasher7240 I do not think I am reaching out at all. When someone yells FIRE, what do you do, you run, right? The word is powerful and impacted your reaction.
Noam Chomsky amazing ASMR, I need to pay attention to his words (listening here in bed) and I sleep really fast, wake up, backward and... Sleep again in seconds! 🤣 Frustrating for learning but amazing to sleep🤣🤣🤣❤️❤️❤️
Evelina, in her few first sentences showcased the ability of neuroscience to empirically test (and disprove) ages-old psychology theories and philosophical arguments alike. Bravo Evelina!
no she didnt
I absolutely disagree. In fact, she ends up using the half century old universal grammar argument in her attempt to explain the commonalities between different languages.
This
is where we get into the theory of everything.
Thought and the forces of understanding are what we believe the mathematics
is showing us. The math reveals the forces
of understanding and levels of matter. . Classical physics is human agreed
thought, not inclusive or serving of all. Centuries ago, we think, humanity was
introduced. The introduction of man is
the introduction of written language. Written
language has created its own force. When
humanity created language the natural transference of information was usurped
to better enable humanity’s survival. Humanity created its own truths - the
partial story, the misleading data, the answers were previewed and translated
for a survival that does not serve all. That was a natural solution to build
what we’ve built
Watching from Libya with love 💓
Mohamed, Keep TracKinG LIKE now Today Already. Thanks for MY UPPORTunity, Kees de Vos
Wonderful program, wonderful idea to bring science to lay people, especially in these troubled times. It feels good to know that there are people out there who have the education of humankind at heart, rather than its destruction.
Watching in Hungary - with love xx
I like Holger Czukay dance music. Persian love & perfume very pretty. Cool in the pool funny (:
greetings from Minnesota
Bangladesh
You Are Being Served As English Has Nice Expressions To Serve My Dutch Origins. Have A Look At What I Wrote \ Right NOW Above Me
Noam Chomsky blows my mind every time I listen to him with his unique school of thought, maybe his genius mind is also some sort of a positive mutation that restructured his 🧠. Very fortunate to have such a prodigy to live amongst us today
he's a dunce and everything he said was wrong. glad that other speakers saw that.
Again and Again, thank you Brian Green
Don't Stop; Thereis Followup Already !!!
I love how he answered Fermi's paradox almost offhandedly
Chomsky’s ideas on what language is and on the communication-language distinction were misunderstood by the other speakers and the host. It’s a shame there wasn’t more time for him to go into detail.
with over an hour of time reserved for discussion it seems more likely that any details were to be glozed over as is the way of the world and a generic solution type answer to placate the masses 🤷🏻♂️🤔🤭
*If you can't clearly explain a theory (thought) simple enough for a child to understand within a few minutes then perhaps that theory doesn't work.*
*Chomsky & his host have an incredible vocabulary & had near half an hour to communicate his thoughts, so if his thoughts were misunderstood perhaps he has no idea what he's speaking about.*
@@Christian_Prepper I know what you're saying and I only disagree a little, in that just because a theory is complex it certainly doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong or that it would be entirely wrong, though obviously Occam's Razor does usually apply. I just wanted to point out that Chomsky actually doesn't seem to be up to date with all the science relevant to his point, as exposed by the people that came on after him, so to some degree he certainly doesn't know what he's talking about
@@minagica And the same goes for Pinker. Chomsky bets on a vague, hand-waving theory of a 'lucky' random genetic origin, and Pinker bets on an equally vague, hand-waving slightly less random cultural origin (tool-making) to the evolution of cognitive language-readiness. What needs explaining is the evolution of decoupled (from the immediate here-and-now) mental representations of the elsewhere-and-when, in order to have a story or event in mind to communicate about. In other words, the evolution of the cognitive capacity to travel mentally in space and time. I have explained how: in the journal Biological Theory, 'The Social Trackways Theory of the Evolution of Human Cognition' Shaw-Williams (2014), " The STT of the Evolution of Language' (2017).
@@kimshaw-williams fair but he appears to be more up to date on the scientific findings
Who knew that the best and most deep-thinking channel on RUclips elects not use Oxford commas in its titles.
A play is where a group collectively looses control in a structured manner.
A dream is where an individual looses control in a rapidly variable environment.
In these two space we check our baseline individually and collectively.
Music is both dreaming and playing at the same time.
Only if you close your eyes.
When Pinker was elaborating on the possible component like nature of words, I was reminded of Saussure's theory of signs. In his system before language there is the sign . The sign is composed of two components, the word/sound "dog" and the thing itself in our mind that embodies dogness.
@39:09 ~ A picture is worth a thousand words, as I see Bryans expression after hearing buzz words, such as ~ Create ~ Collective Consciousness ~ Collective Imagination ~ As for myself, the big I, Separate Realities comes to mind...(G%
1:33:44 we are the universe in our inner mind imagination... Limitless!
This was great to watch Noam chomsky is very informative ! 💯
And he’s 90+. It’s amazing how sharp he still is.
And now an honest Approach to The Math Please. Succes, wished for by I would Hope Everyone! Kees de Vos
@@nakedshadows I heard that 70% of the time he's just blabbering and or riffing...He's no Eddie Van Halen.
*Too bad Noam was wrong about the primary issue being discussed.*
Have you watched the rest?
With those sayings at the beginning - there is a spiritual (or higher dimensional,) truth to that understanding: Life IS Death -- they are one. Language is not just to understand, but it is also expression. Gravity pulls, but it also pushes. If Math made this world, then why is it also chaotic? God - the all knowing, all powerful, to whom all praise is due came to Earth as a man to be a servant. Doesn't an entangled particle have up and down spins? And all the while listening to this presentation, I couldn't help but notice soo many spiritual truths being spoken without the realization of them. If we can speak of these things even without knowing them, then aren't they also expressions -- perhaps from above or from our higher consciousness? The story of how it all began is this: That God was a great sea of spirit and he wondered what he was, so he withdrew into himself, and from that all manner of thought became... Us. It became everything. The individual, the group, the world, the galaxy... the Universe itself -- and it is finding it's way back to what it once was, and THIS is where all expression comes from. Why do we communicate? Because our soul, just as every atom in this universe, is seeking it's way back to it's source that the physicist calls the big bang, that the Christian calls God and that the spiritualist calls that great sea of spirit from which all of us came from. They are all the same thing.
Have you ever heard of the idea morphic resonance? If not, you should check it out
Your religious diatribe, Micky Johnson, for that is what it is....calls forth a Mindful Creator, yes....God, yes...who is ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS AND THEREFORE HAPPENS. In other words, we are all irresponsible children. We come and then we go, under GOD"S MANIFESTO....like dust upon the storm, into this world we are born. Sorry man, we got two evils (at this point in time) in the world: religious fucking stupidity, and war-like-can't-exist without-it fucking smart-ass -make MORE money-GET OFF THE PLANET YOH!!! rampant capitalism (they used to build fucking useless castles and churches) .....same old, same old, same old.
So get real, dude, forget about the fantasies in your mind, what shall we do here in the real world?
@@kimshaw-williams Kim, that was one of the dumbest posts I've ever read man. At no point did you ask a legit question or make any relevant statements in a functional fashion. lul...
@@mickyjohnson273 That's because you've got a brain blinded by linguistic toy-words like 'legit' and 'relevant' and 'functional', which are merely extremely vague descriptions of a 'relationship' with thoughts and sensations. Besides I was being tongue in cheek, man.....get a life, why don't you, and stop believing that terms like 'functional fashion' actually mean anything much, that by using them you are actually saying anything worth thinking about/listening to. What I pointed out about war-for-business-making-money-capitalism and dyed-in-the-wool religious fairy-tales about an all-powerful 'God' or 'Father' was much easier to understand. In other words, save that kind of language for the court-theater of the law, that's what it came out of/was made for (equals is 'functionally relevant' to....) blah!
It's such an honor to hear N.C's and grateful for B.G's huge works for public's growing awareness of scieces 😍
Spoken language is an amazing accomplishment and tool of modern human. However, I believe it is what holds us back in many respects. Our ideas and understanding and feelings are imprisoned by our written and communicated language. We have disconnected from our primal form of communication, from the universal understanding of all things living. We have discarded this in exchange for spoken and written language. As with everything, we should strive to find a balance between the two.
Cannot agree more with you……
Mind blowing talks! Thanks a lot! About Chomsky's idea that language is primarily a «tool of thought» - Pinker's "phonological" argument (around 1:15:19) against Chomsky's idea is rather weak. On the other hand, Fedorenko's argument (around 41:20), which is based on the fact that people with serious language disabilities who remain able to think and do high-level tasks (playing chess, doing sudoku), is much more convincing against the «tool of thought» idea from Chomsky.
I love the fact that you noticed the implausibility of Pinker’s argument but the other one makes just about as much sense. Chomsky’s argument is not that ALL thought is linguistic, that is absurd. That would imply, as Fedorenko correctly pointed out, those with language impairment would be incapable of other abstract thought. This isn’t his argument. His argument is that the component of the mind that is linguistic, that part is fundamentally a tool for thought. There are many other ways of thinking (visual, spatial, etc.).
Isn't that idea precisely in support Chomsky's idea of language as a tool of thought. Global aphasia is connected with damage to Wernicke and Broca's areas in the brain. Areas which are involved in language production and recognition. Meaning that while these individuals can not parse the heard language into sort of internal language nor can they attach the internal language to the externalisation areas they can still think. Now the big leap here is that of course how do neurons instantiate meaning. How come and where in the brain neuronal activity gives rise to this complex system which allows you to manipulate chunks of information in your head. Can the language abstraction be found on top of the neural net layer?
@@HAL_NlNETH0USAND I think the idea was a straw man of Chomsky’s position which talks along the lines of language being necessary for capital T thought. It would follow then that because thoughts and mental abstractions can still be had once the language related areas are impaired that language is not a fundamental tool of thought. Of course this is fallacious as language doesn’t effect ALL thought, it effects some of it.
@@jayslater7017 Chomsky does not believe all thought is linguistic but that language gives rise of complex thought. This is made pretty clear in other interviews. His arguments are based on conflicts between computational efficiency vs communicative clarity (normally defined as maximization of the info communicated). Fedorenko argues for communitive/ cognitive efficiency. This makes them talk past each other. Basically, both can claim the same process is efficiency for different or the same reason to support their arguments. This makes splicing this argument extremely hard
Another thing to keep in mind is they are focused on different things. Chomsky hardcore internalist and really only cares about the mental capacity stripped bare to understand the mental processes/ computation. The whole point of UG is to take all the worlds languages, compare similarities, and theorize what kind of computational system could give rise such a system. Technically constructive connectivism grammars are a UG but they have very different foundational beliefs they fall into a different camp. This hardcore focus on internalist makes him and Dor talking about different things. Though him and Fedorenko are in conflict in areas.
@@jayslater7017 Thank you for your knowledgeable comment. In this kind of discussions, it's often a question of definition and the limits that are set. I agree, the words "ALL", "NONE", "ALWAYS", "NEVER" give easy arguments, often the truth is more nuanced. The question seems to me more of the kind «Is language “primarily” a tool for communicating or more of a tool for thinking ? ». Prior to this talk and before knowing about the aphasia experiments reported by Fedorenko, I was more inclined towards Chomsky's hypothesis, particularly for the development of high level abstract thinking and reasoning as stated above by @Joe Smoe (complex thought). These new experimental facts make me change my mind. But I have to think more about that... Anyway thank you for your interesting comment.
Communication and thinking in a deeper level are almost the same thing. For instance, when we ask ourselves a question, like "How the universe began?", we are communicating with ourselves as we are thinking with certain words and grammar. In that respect, language is in fact a tool of thought and our thought has been empowered by it, as it is also being limited through it.
I like the title of the video ; it is a well thought expression of language on scientific base.
A brilliant new book, "SPEECH! How Language Made Us Human" by Simon Prentis, draws together all the themes discussed here and provides a radical yet surprisingly obvious solution to the origin of language. It's an amazing insight. Check it out!
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Surprising AND obvious? I gotta know
Fantastic knowledge, I appreciate tremendously 👍👏🙏
Jintana, Have a Taste for What is already lIKE a Followup. !!!
Thank you Dr. Greene. Nutrition for thought, no doubt in my mind. Some concepts were a bit bewildering to me. Mil gracias!
To study the evolution of a given biological system, you begin by describing the phenotype in as much detail as possible, i.e. the technical features of the biological system that has evolved. Chomsky's theory, right or wrong, sought to do just that. It pointed to specific features of language such as the Empty Category Principle and the predominance of Minimal Structural Distance over Minimal Linear Distance, among many others. On empirical grounds, many linguists believe these features to be universal across languages. This is a far cry from being untestable, Prof. Fedorenko! Moreover, the prioritization of Minimal Structural Distance happens to be, prima facie, a compelling demonstration of how language is not optimally designed for communication (e.g. take one of Chomsky's recurring examples: the question "can eagles that fly swim?". You intuitively understand that "can" refers to "swim" and not to "fly", even though "fly" is linearly more proximate and would make for better communication). To demonstrate that Chomsky is wrong in his view of language one would have to show that all of these features are errors or artifacts. Dor and Fedorenko don't even attempt to do that in this interview. Instead, Dor engages in an excited description of familiar *experiences* of language *use* . He does so while ignoring altogether the detailed descriptions of the phenotype offered by Chomsky and his colleagues over the years. Meanwhile, Fedorenko begins with a straw man. All she shows is that there is thought independent of language, which Chomsky never disputed. His argument is that language is optimally designed for thought, rather than for communication. Not that all thought is done in language. In short, if instead of tooting their own horns the distinguished guests sought to seriously engage with Chomsky's ideas, they should've attended to the details of his theory. Now, all of this would become immediately obvious if this show was organized as an actual debate, giving all sides the opportunity to respond to each other's claims. Although I enjoyed it, I think it's a missed opportunity.
I heard this statement in a creationist documentary nevertheless it's true (to paraphrase): We are taught that there are only two things, but there are in fact three; matter, energy and information.
The human genius, if we may call it that because we are only the products of its evolution, is that we have learned how to communicate, annotate and preserve information in a far subtler manner than any other creature.
Sanskrit as a language has embedded complex mathematics into poetic mantras and sutra. but the language died as a spoken one in most parts of the world. was there a deliberate killing of such languages even before we could discover it's full potential. Thank you for this discussion.
I’ve always wondered this too since I was younger “how did people come to speak other languages “?
"Human language is like a cracked tin kettle, on which we hammer out tunes to make bears dance when we long to move the stars. "(Madame Bovary by Flaubert)
Thank you from Philadelphia 💖❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
Jesus christ referenced living waters 💎👨✈️👩✈️ Tesla referenced human energy 👻🌬science described water memory 🌊🎭💎psalms16:24kj psalms 33:6 proverbs27:19existence psychologically spiritually importance is of Jesus christ god bless 💎🗽🤍👨✈️💖👻💎👩✈️💖👻💎🛶🌪🎭🌪🌬
Outstanding panel and discussion! Thank you!
I’m with you on this path. Now I’m ready to watch your videos after viewing this to get better understanding. Thank you for opening my eye.
It is story telling. Centuries of stories told to keep alive the saving ability of science, math, and religion. All stories told are human attempts to survive. Fight for survival and created for selfish purposes.
When we created language, we created a tool that has been used to protect us as we’ve evolved. Our thought was to give humanity the unique gift or ability to expedite the evolution; direct communication and understanding. It has been a natural evolution and we must be grateful as we unite in understanding.
Survival of anything less than the whole will not prevail - all contribute individual energy freely to a universally serving central conductor of the energy - no loss of energy - no waste.
My tool of communication is my iPhone device my tool to connect my thoughts is language. I deeply admire Noam Chomsky.
the original. Chomsky done lost his mind.
This is so amazing. This guy is a complete genius in my mind. The human mind is one of a kind for certain. This is the definition of wisdom, as well as helpful wisdom. What are you doing if your not giving love to the earth? stay on track, let’s ascend together.
Among all man's inventions, the invention of language is perhaps man's single greatest achievement and the irrepressible Dr Chomski is a leading light within this field of modern linguistics.
Dr Chomski is a rare treasure and legend in this field, but to say definitively and I quote "that language is a tool of thought" is a bit much, even for the great Noam.
He too can be wrong you know,, my sincere apologies to his legion of fans 🙏 🙏
I would argue that the spoken word/ "language is primarily and foremost a tool for communicating" thoughts, ideas, feelings, emotions, memories etc etc and that the "Mind is fundamentally that tool that coordinates the complex process of thought exchange through speech".
Hope I've made sense and communicated what I mean by means of these signs that appear on your screen. 🙏
Note to self :
0:00 intro Brian Greene
4:55 Noam Chomsky
34:18 Evelina Fedorenko & Daniel Dor
1:12:33 Steven Pinker
1:49:54 outro BG
Thank you for sharing this brilliant discussion!
Mixing metaphors, similes, and sayings is called "Malaphors". It's so very entertaining, and truly is Not Rocket Surgery.
😆
So says the linguistic expert
It's spirit. Plus my thoughts get carried away and I mean yes I and never shuts off ok I'll just say it that way.. learning about myself WITH this clarity since 2017 and 2018.. OMFG that's FELT! You know you feel it they know it that they are EVERYONE FEELS THAT SHIT!!. . ABSOLUTELY THIS IS FELT.. . . CHOOSING TO BE ADMITTING IT.. . Just keepin it real!! I'm in and out of it ALONG WITH everywhere else. . Eventually that's what happens.. . I am grateful for this video!! For you speaking with eachother in it etc... One reason I know for sure I was lead to this moment. And video. . Sincerely a comfort feeling I have to say feels like my grandparents home our home their bed was THE MOST HELD LIKE A BABY, type of FEELING ,.. brought me to tears . I'm completely amazed!!.
Our dreams are the most profound source of metaphor, a linguistic gift that comes every night and is often ignored. Why? Perhaps because it asks the conscious ego to step aside and allow for something mysterious, something outside the control of the conscious self to take centre stage.
@@milorami Have you ev wondered why you feel the need to tell others what side is up?
Great questions from the host 👏👏👏
Where did Noam Chomsky say that language emerged like 'some little snowflake in our brains and that suddenly everything was different'? Evelina totally misrepresented what Noam Chomsky was saying. Everything Evelina and Daniel talkled about came after the initial emergence of language. Chomsky was talking about the root of the issue, not how it developed into different languages later. Two totally different issues.
In other lectures he does compare it to a snowflake that appeared all at once. I think it's to illustrate that the physical laws of nature are also a factor in evolution. The way Evelina says it it does sound like a dig though. I agree with you, I feel like Chomsky is trying to find fundamental explanations, while the others are merely after descriptions.
Intelligence is economy of metabolism.
Language is temporal reference frame of economics.
Self is simulation in language on metabolism for economy.
BG has a good sense of humor “dogs have figured out unified theory”. Lol! Love your content Brian.
Crazy good group of intellectuals 👍 Had to get my thinking cap on for this one.
Well listen to Dor and Eleanor bro, Chomsky and Pinker are defunct.
Cap some MORE; IT'S HERE Already. !!!
@@kimshaw-williams Your comment is NOT defunct- it is FUNCT!🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶
So Awesome!! Love You All Infinity+1!
Language can't be the limit of thought because we invent new words, and recycle old ones with slang, so language itself is limitless.
I feel more intelligent every time I’ve watched one of these terrific programmes.
Please,
your episodes are great and amazing
Please can you add the English subtitles on the screen so that we can follow each word accurately, as some words I cannot understand, my original language is not English, and I would like to follow accurate in your wonderful discussion . Many thanks .
You can click the close caption button and receive captions