Same Workout Just Faster? 🤔 EMBN Hot Lap | XC Bike Edition
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- We've enlisted the help of @gmbntech presenter and Ex Elite XC racer Anna Cipullo for a little effort comparison on a loop she knows well between the Electric bike and a cross-country bike. She's likely to go faster on the e-bike, but how does the level of effort involved in each attempt vary? Let's find out.
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
00:00 - Intro
00:34 - About The Rider
01:24 - About The Bikes
01:46 E-Bike Lap
03:26 - XC Bike Lap
05:20 - Digging Into The Effort With Garmin Stats
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What do you think of Anna’s result? Should we explore more scientific ways to define the fitness levels eMTBs offer? What tests do you suggest?
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What do you think of Anna’s result? Should we explore more scientific ways to define the fitness levels eMTBs offer? What tests do you suggest?
Great comparison. I would like to see this test with the e-bike in eco mode.
Hello , good video!!
I suggest the power hour test : one biker rides during 1 hour with a traditional MTB on a track and after a rest the same biker ride rides during 1 hour with EMTB on the same track. At the end, compare the data between mtb and eMTB ( heart rate , calories, jumps, km, loop ….) . I hope you can do this test !!!! Thank you for your job and videos!!
I would like to see how much more you can do on an eMtB with the same rider effort and time. I have both a mid power eMtB, Fazua ride 60, and full power, Bosch CX gen 4 but regularly ride a hardtail analogue, my experience is I just do more on the eMtBs given the same effort, more miles, more climbing, faster loops
The limiting factor for most of us is not distance, it's free time. It would be much more useful to compare riding 2hrs on the ebike to 2hrs on a regular bike.
Also, like others have pointed out, try it in eco mode, or normal mode. Most people who want a workout aren't riding their bikes in turbo (especially if they're light E-MTBs with smaller batteries)
Is there a significant difference? Put pedal based power meters on each of the bikes, and compare power, work, heart rate and calories burned over each of the 2hr sessions.
Apples to apples comparison!
Ebikes offer any kind of workout you could want - from a light workout (turbo) to a hardest workout imaginable (assist off). It is up to the rider to choose how much the effort they want to put in. If you’re always riding in turbo then you might be cheating yourself out of a good workout (but still get an awesome fun ride). Discipline matters.
I've maxed my heart rate in turbo. You just go REALLY fast when you put in full effort. A while back when my friend got one, I did a quick 1 mile loop on turbo and triggered an asthma attack. Good thing I carry my inhaler in my water pack! 🤣
Yeah, the difference is, when you are feeling good and want a harder workout, you do less power and just push more. If you happen to not feel so great, but still want a workout, you use more power. The main thing being, the workout is simply much more fun, because either way, you are out on the bike doing something. Less frustrated and more motivated.
Refreshingly honest conclusion Lady, I like it.
After many attempts by EMBN, Anna, I think you hit the whole mtb V emtb nail straight on the head with regards to work input and training reward being in slight different spheres but the bottom line in whatever you settle for, both offer the ability to get an excellent workout - it’s up to you, the rider, to decide what level you want and what you want out of it. Emtb is certainly not cheating but on those recovery days, that’s when they really shine. As you say, the majority of us are not elite athletes so any tool in your arsenal which allows you to get out more often without having downtime of recovery has got to be a winner. It would be interesting to repeat this test but do the 1st loop on the mtb and the 2nd on the emtb.
I think you should send Mr Jones away more often to salivate over expensive new bike tech in foreign lands!! 😎
Hahaha thank you! ☺️
I'm older now and sometimes struggle to get out. The orbea rise is a great help ,I can do bigger rides at higher Cadence, more climbs, longer rides.and I enjoy it more 👍
Exactly my experience of emtb, smile is not going away from my face. I did 4-6h ride yesterday with 1000m of vertical, and Im going to do it again today!
Thanks for bringing up the recovery factor, which I think often goes overlooked in comparisons such as these. As a type-1 diabetic, my recovery times are often 3x - 4x that of my non-pancreatically challenged peers. (Yes, I'm in good control of my blood sugar - it's just one of those things. YMMV.) Switching to an EMTB was a game-changer. Instead of overdoing it twice a week on my analog, I can go just hard enough whenever possible on my E. Unless I go to Bentonville. Then I'm toast for a week after regardless. Cheers!
Brilliant and concise comprehension and just shows how versatile an E can be. If you were to do it in tour/eco mode the work load increase, so you can tailor your workout to the specific ride you are doing and how you are as a rider in general. You can work as hard or little as you want. Great vid
Another great video Anna, very interesting data. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the great comparison, the stats were great.
Thanks, Annie. It's very interesting to see how things are in the real world, but age has already slowed us older folks down, I still love to use my old school mtb and gravel bike, but like your test I found the same thing out, I know what you mean about 2 days rest 😊 or 3 days 😀 but after that don't you feel great 😀, but I feel I don't get that same hi on the elite 140 works, and like you said with the ebike we can ride daily 😀 now do the same test without the motor on 🤣😂🥰 very interesting Laters Steve
I've only owned a full powered eMTB for a few days now but I've managed to max out my heart on every ride so far! But i was smiling the whole time instead of dreading the climbs like I do on my MTB. And because i can ride 3x longer, I burn significantly more calories! Literally the beat purchase I've ever made!
That makes no sense...
Emtb you can retain whatever power level you want. Can't do zone 2 with a normal bike in terrain. And you also have to spike your watts to well over 600 on a normal bike. Where as on an ebike you can keep them at 400 and below even in the steepest parts.
I am wondering what the load score on the e-bike would have been if you did ride it 35 minutes also
Probably 0 🤣
The limiting factor for most of us is not distance, it's time. It would be much more useful to compare riding 2hrs on the ebike to 2hrs on a regular bike.
Is there a significant difference? Put pedal based power meters on each of the bikes, and compare power, work, heart rate and calories burned over each of the 2hr sessions.
Apples to apples comparison!
100%. Thank you
If you do a test like this again it would be interesting to ride the XC lap first and then ride the emtb for the same length of time rather than by distance. This would be more reflective of reality as people usually go for a ride for a certain length if time and enjoy that an emtb let's them explore further.
Thanks Anna, I am like you, all about enjoying my ride, so now have an ebike, loving going up hills and not feeling completely knackered at the top!
I give a thumbs up just for putting in the effort. Nice job!!!
Thank you!
Excellent presentation Anna! Moving to an e-bike seems to be a controversial, ego impacted move for many! I get it- I justified my e-bikes by my age (now 75) and joint replacements (both knees, both hips). I’ve been called a cheater, which I actually think is rude but hilarious🤣.
The bottom line is that I’m out there having fun, keeping fit, and exploring places I wouldn’t be seeing if I didn’t have e-bikes. I live on beautiful Vancouver Island, 🇨🇦. I’ve gradually upgraded my bikes, and now have a Trek fuel Exe 9.7 and a Trek Domane+ SLR 7. They both were expensive decisions, but they are perfect for me and I enjoy myself immensely! And, isn’t that what it’s all about🙏🏼
I never use Turbo, except for riding on the streets. Next time, if there is one, try it in Tour. Would love to see the results for different assist levels.
Great video and comparison. Impressive times on the non-ebike.
Thanks! 👍
I visited Dalby Forest and did the 23miles Red/Black loop the other day. On my analogue bike I'd only ever do one loop, this time I went with my eMTB, did one 23mile loop, had a cup of tea and then went and did the 23mile loop again, each time in a "oner", no stopping. That's 46miles in low assistance mode and I was absolutely cooked at the end. I can say I enjoyed the eMTB ride more than the usual analogue mtb ride and got just as good a workout but had to do double the miles. You have to be honest with yourself though and stay in a lower assistance mode to get the range and put in the effort to get a good workout. Excellent honest feedback from the test too.
Is it possible to get the same workout? Yeah, I suppose. I can probably get my HR to its max mowing my yard. It's just not likely. I'm 71 and live at 6500 feet in Utah. Most of our rides start at around 7000' and go to 10000'. My climbs have me at 90% max for most of my climbs on my mtb. On my emtb, I'm mostly at 65% to 80%. That's by design. It's not a flaw!
My max HR is around 187 (based on a stress echocardiogram the year before which coincides nicely with my HR monitor). I don't frequently wear an HR monitor, but my last one showed 1Hr 41 Min in Zone 4 and 25 min 43 sec in zone 5 and best 20 minute = 172 bpm with best one hour 168 bpm, on a 20.91 mile, 2468 foot climb. At my age and where I ride, the ONLY way for me to get a sane (and safe) workout is to be on an ebike! The "killer, lean uphill to puke so I don't have to stop" workouts are still fun, but fewer and farther between.
The Canyon looks the absolute mutts nuts! Such a cool looking bike.
You rode the course in Turbo. No wonder it's easier on the ebike. Try riding the course in Mid, or Low power. Try it with more equivilancy bike to bike.
I ride both and get the same work out as my analogue XC bike, but then my ebikes spends it's life in Eco mode, it's never been in Turbo nor E-mtb. Even Tour+ can get the heart rate up on climbs between 20-30%.. you can really feel the weight of the ebike and definitely get more leg burn. So you can definitely get a proper work out on an ebike.. if you feel you don't... then turn the power off or down 🤔😂.
I used to be a top-level athlete in martial arts and have an injured left foot and two mildly injured hands and go out every day when weather and baby permits and have never looked back. I am willing to bear a little pain when the climbs are fun too! Your honest words are much appreciated.
I like to use mine in "assist off" 70%-90% of the time on regular rides and if i get to a big hill I'll give it a good go but hover that power button if I know I aint gonna make it xD
It's also great to have as a back up to get me home if i've gone too far.
I used it in trail to keep up with my friends physically and mentally at cannock chase. I could of possibly kept up with no E bike but then I probably would of not learned on the downhill sections as too tired and making mistakes, they were more experienced on downhills and fitter than me so it really allowed me to have a GREAT time rather than a horrible time.
The free time available is definitely something to consider... if you don't ride every weekend and put the miles in ya fitness wont be what you left it at... I can confirm this.. I go out with the assistance off and find myself out of breath very quickly due to not being out in ages... it's the hard reality of it not everyone has the same amount of time. We all work too hard now days.
I Reely like the competent and kind way you present these clips. Great job! Good to see such a dedicated female in the male dominated space. Keep on pushing!
My question is, why ride the trail in turbo mode? The only time I use that mode is if I’m riding back from the bike park and I’m tired or riding into a heavy wind. Otherwise I’m using the bike’s “smart mode”, where the assist is based on effort. I’m assuming all emtbs have this mode. That would be a more interesting comparison.
Smiles for miles vs wanting give-up/throw-up... I resemble those remarks!
What would the figures have been if you'd ridden for the same time instead of the same distance. Would be interesting to see.
Thank you
I’m agree, crystal clear!! In fact, you are able to ride in mode Tour or Emtb
Unless i missed it (apologies if I have) what was the total watts used for both rides? Do you have that measurement? Just would be interesting. Watts used by you the rider, not you and the bike generated.
I have both trad and e bikes. If you want some basic exercise and cardio, ride an e-bike. If you want to get FIT AF. Ride a trad bike. Simple.
Someone actually talking sense for once.
Turbo? Why? The training is in the lower modes.
I wish you guys would use one of the modes that matches power to the rider’s input, like Emtb or Tour modes on the Bosch, for example. I don’t know about other riders but I almost never ride on Turbo or Eco- I find that those preset power delivery modes suck doing trail riding as they come on too much, too sudden, especially Turbo. Emtb and Tour give a much smoother, more natural feeling assist, what you want when trying to navigate a tight switchback, for example, given that you commented on the difficulty of that on the emtb. The only time I use Turbo is if I’m on a fire road or gravel or paved road and just want to shoot up to the top ASAP to drop in as quickly as possible.
The other thing I wish you guys would change is to do a comparo based on the same amount of TIME, not mileage. When I ride the determining factor is the amount of time I have, and I get in as much distance in that time as I can. So in this comparo you could have ridden 10 more minutes of distance in the same amount of time. So then, at the end of that time, compare the stats. And I can tell you one benefit right off the bat that an emtb gives you over an analog mtb when comparing them in set amounts of time- bc you get more distance in the same amount of time on an emtb you get a better skill workout and your skills will increase faster. Just imagine if you used that extra 10 mins on a jump or drop sesh at the end.
The other thing that is great about an emtb is that you can have the biggest, burliest enduro sled and go hammer XC trails with it and get close to an XC workout, whereas in order to to do that on an analog you need to have an XC bike. So while emtbs may cost more, one bike can do a lot more.
Why do people think that riding in Zone 5 for an extended period of time is a good thing if you are not a pro? Just longer recovery, meaning more down time and less healthful, especially as you get older.
100% agree on the recovery comments at end of the vid. 2 days to recover!!! Thank you for sharing. That’s the part all the tough guys never talk about. For me those next two days might be my only other days available to ride that week, so if I miss them I’ve only ridden once that week, whereas with an emtb if I can ride them I get 3 days of riding in. Now which bike provides more fitness?
I have trek slash and trek rail both high end models. You get different type of effort. On analog bike you get more of a workout in your legs, on ebike you get more of like less legs, but more upperbody to handle the weight of the bike. However one thing to notice is that you always ride the ebike longer time because your legs are not destroyed so more time means more calories.
If i was trying to burn more calories in as little time as possible, then yeah analog bike takes it. Big leg muscles non stop working will burn more. But overall i think the difference aint that big and nobody is strictly trying to burn more calories.
That saying while i would choose the ebike overall, the analog one has alot of stuff that is better. Suspension, flow, manuevering, jumping, poppines. Also Ebikes on long run cost more. Energy to charge and parts break faster.
Both have a place in the market. Ebike shines mostly when you climb and technical lines because it just powers trough the rock and chunk and you dont fall as easly.
I've only had an eMTB for a few days but what I've observed so far is that I roughly burn half the calories per mile as I do on an MTB but I ride 3x as far so I agree, definitely burning more calories on the eMTB. The upper body workout is nice too!
Wow, I wasn't expecting this conclusion.
You rode the ebike for 10 less minutes, of course your “load score” is going to be lower. Ride the ebike for the same amount of time as the analog and suddenly you get a very similar workout level, but went much further. This extra distance often means you gain more insight and progress more.
Hey Anna, the question is how much longer (or maybe more difficult) should be a workout on an ebike to match a workout on a good old analogue bike? If I'm correct there are two aspects of training, namely endurance and power, how ebikes compare with normal bikes in improving let's say endurance? ('cause in power training probably ebikes are not so good as normal bikes) Or if one wants to improve faster, then the only best thing is always a normal bike? I do not talk here about staying active, for this ebike is better I believe, only about improving.
You are absolutely right. People’s ideas of what “fitness” is varies, and therefore the way you can use any bike as training will depend on what you are trying to achieve or what you’re training for. Thanks for the thoughts! There’s certainly more specific stuff we can do on this subject 😊
Big diff for me going between my SS 29r, Giant Anthem X 29, and Giant Trance X E+ pro 29 is more anaerobic on the regular bikes. I used to do over 40 races across marathon XC mtb, short track XC mtb, Cyclocross, BMX, Road races, road crits, and velodrome/track.
I still do races every now and then but mostly charity non-competitive events and the longer more aerobic rides on eMTB are doing me good both mentally and physically. Not burned out from the constant hard efforts/recovery. Still fit and gaining new skills with faster uphills, longer excursions, and learning to jump last fall! Hidden benefit in the hot and humid midwest usa is that I can ride my eMTB in hotter-stickier temps than my other bikes since the extra speed/airflow (esp uphill) keeps me from overheating.
So my normal aMTB ride is like 12miles / 2000' elev in 1:30mins, on the eMTB I am doing 20miles / 3000'+ elev in 1:20mins (ECO), so my effort is the same on ether ride.
The eMTB I am doing more climbing / DH and having way more fun doing the ascents and of course the descents😎
I would love to see the use of rider generated watts instead of heat rate as the measurements of work and effort
Good point, we'll try and figure out a way to include that next time :)
I am not sure if I understood correctly, did you ride the course in turbo mode? I can only speak for myself, but I never use turbo mode. I only use eco and on some steep climbs I use trial - I even often turn the motor off to extend my distance. My biggest complaints about eMTBs are that they don't have enough battery capacity for long rides (>70 km) and the weight, because it's not fun to handle them in challenging uphill terrain - Oh, and I have a feeling that well-equipped eMTBs are getting way too expensive. That's why I just decided to go for a very light XC MTB again, hopefully I will not regret it - I will see 😁
I find it funny how many mtb folks watch emtb content just to complain about emtbs. Get over it, clearly you don't care for it. This was good content. It aligns with my own experience. With that being said, I have noticed riding an e-bike does kill low-end climbing muscles if you don't alternate often.
The best way I can describe it is lifting heavy vs light. Light weight with more reps will result in durable lean muscles, Heavy weight with less reps will result in powerful bulk muscles. Either will burn calories and move your fitness forward.
How about upper-body workout? I wonder if there is a way to compare EMTB vs MTB. Ride time equal, I feel like my upper body gets a bigger workout on my e-bike vs my acoustic. After all, the motor is only assisting my legs. My arms are having to cover more miles unassisted.
And more weight. A sesh day on the emtb is a killer upper body workout.
could have done some runs with less assist on the e bike ..
Should've gone on the normal bike first, you'd have got the benefit of the ebike after. Wonder what the effort would be travelling for the same amount of time on both bikes, and use trail mode - still fun but bit more effort. Ebikes are fun uphill as well as down. No competition in my eyes for which one to buy!
What about spending the same amount of workout time on both bike pushing as hard as you can? Nah make Steve do it you can narrate😀. You may have to put a piece of cake just out of his reach to keep him going. So what this telling me is to lead a happy healthy balanced life I need both bikes sound good to me! Keep the wheels turning and have a great day.
Why you tryin’ to kill Steve? 😂
Clearly not the same workout. There is a reason people think it is more fun to ride an e-bike. And the reason is that it is easier. Period.
Exactly, it's amazing people can't do the maths.
Se una persona è sola può uscire con cosa vuole, se in gruppo con tutti che hanno ebike o hai la gamba o devi unirti per divertirti e godere dei poercosi, anche l'età ha il suo perchè
Been riding 26ers since ‘86. Not anymore. Modern E mountain bikes are AMAZING! All bikes are amazing.
Never had or purchased a 27.5, 29er, dropper post, thru axles, 12 speed, 1x, (same thing? A 10-50 cassette wow?), UDH, 220 disc, tapered head-tube, and definitely not an E mountain bike with 90nm. Been waiting and saving. Refusing to buy into marketing and hype until I could make a full gap jump!
Got my first E mountain bike 4 days ago and will never look back! I got all the items on the list above at one time!!!
Love the show! Thank you and all the crew for your efforts. I know it is a different show but same network, and lots of time has passed but I miss Jon Cannings tech.
All the best!
Well that track e bike would hit the area of not giving any power… exceeding 25kmh, that if any case is annoying.. nevertheless its overall faster
For training the limiter is pretty much required. You can't really do FTP oriented workouts with an unlimited bike. So there is a benefit to the limiter as well. But then again the vast majority of ebikers don't really care about FTP.
All the EMTB riders hurt by the results and making new excuses 😂
Just so we’re clear, analog devices still require electricity 🤦🏼♂️
Hahaha, true!
Analogue bike riding is slow and dull. No matter your fitness, an ebike makes your ride far more enjoyable and you can get the very same workout. Same effort, higher gear, more speed.
No.
@@dangerfulmindyes
You will also do more laps typically on an ebike, so more calories burned.
Any body in Germany want to by me E bike ?
Worst decision I made getting an ebike , my fitness is now appalling bad , time to go back to a normal bike
You should learn how to ride it then 😂
@@carterschichtel9678 oh so your supposed to ride it with the motor turned off 👍
@@Sthilboy56 Nope go ride somewhere that isn’t flat and actually pedal as hard as you can no matter the assist. Only time I slow up is to pass 🤷🏼♂️
You can wheelie up the climbs while they walk. Hit every trail 5x while they talk and do two runs up and down. It’s on you
This is a poor version of what Steve and Rich did not long ago, come on guys you can do better. Few issues. As a self labelled “weekend warrior” if she did them both on the same day this will throw the results out on the second lap as there’s insufficient recovery time making a comparison pointless
- Anna hr and time in zones proved this and was a clear indication that she wasn’t recovered
- Um ummmm ummmm
- urgh urgh urgh
- all the data at the ends really good but your better off getting someone in who knows how to decipher it as she clearly wasn’t sure
- uuuummmmmmm
- the fact the load scores were so different showed she didn’t give it the same effort to begin with
- “elite days” 😂😂😂
Ride an emtb exclusively for a few months, then go back to a normal mtb and then and only then will you see how much fitness/leg muscle you have lost. Cardio is one thing, but you also need leg muscles and you'll get more muscles on a normal bike.... Obviously!
Spinning at a high cadence works the heart and gets the motor doing more of the work, video is just another lame attempt to justify taking the easy route.
just get an ebike people and stop being miserable, the sport is changing….for the better if you allow yourself