I think that nerfing brawling BBs is one of main issues. Before commander rework it was common to see german BBs pushing, sometimes even succesful. Now there is no reason to play brawling BBs
So, doing their dang job, and actually help win...not a reward? There's the problem, right there. Keep in mind, no one is seeing charge full speed ahead, straight into the teeth of the enemy. But BBs should be at mid range...that was ALWAYS where they belonged.
@@markwurden6564 The problem is that at mid-range and closer, you are in range of enemy torpedoes, cruisers, HE spam, other BBs, Carriers and soon submarines and with generally low detectability, maneruverabilty and only okay-ish speed the enemy knows EXACTLY where you are at all times. This is not easy, and requires you to know what you are doing, else you get killed in 10 seconds and are of no use to anyone. So people don't do it. The game rewards sitting in the back shooting 150K damage games just as much as securing a flank, tanking 580K damage for your teammates... ACTUALLY I LIED it doesn't reward tanking damage AT ALL.
Pushing at the right in the right place is actually quite tricky. Its a bit of both to be fair. Wrong time wrong place and you'll be toast before you know it.
I agree. BBs hanging back has been an issue since the beginning of the game. Removing Deadeye will not make this go away but it will stop giving them visible rewards for doing so.
They should add the real armor schemes with 50mm deck and no pens or overpens Cant blame brit or french bbs with 32mm plating everywhere taking pens even from dds When u pick a bb the only real vibe is the big guns u just het 2 fires detected from the heaven and blasted to the abyss
Could I perchance bother you to explain to me why that is an "issue" exactly? I don't play the game but it does sound exactly like what the standard battleship was in fact designed to do. Get into a position where it can fire broadside without fear of friendly fire and plink away at the enemy at long range.
BBs dont push cause nobody help. I rush in every battle in my BB and i take help 1 on 20 matches. So whose fault it is ? I end risking my BB sunk down for nothing. Now i play for in long / medium range play even if i dont like it cause is boring.
Well, you can't go the complete opposite way and just mindlessly push from the start of the game. I've seen BB players push like idiots despite our entire flank being outnumbered 2:1.
newsflash... it was the same still back when they first released Bismark as a premium only (2009 / 2010 if memory serves, was about 6 months before we shipped out to Portland for Operation Top Off)
@@aristosachaion_ This is the problem I see. I am by no means a good player but how are people deciding where to go right at the whistle when you have no intel? If I see a big blob appear on the other side of the cap I'm not going to push into it I'm GTFO and head to a cap with less or even no contestation. If I get spotted I continue to kite away while firing until I can get undetected by island, smoke, or range. But it seems too many just want to slug it out at the start of the game and then whichever team had the most players smart enough to try to play tactically would win.
I think we need a fire-saturation mechanic, where the number of fires your ship get set on in the duration of the match reduces fire and HE damage. It makes a lot of sense realistically as well, since there would be a point after which the entire superstructure is just wrecked and any additional fire should not do the same damage.
@@kuninagako9035 would be nis only have 44k haven't decided what i what for my first research ship Iowa is the first choise but the vap2 is a very close second followed by the colbert
Sad reality for Cruiser players nowadays. At least BBs have long engagement ranges and DDs have concealment. Cruisers, esp. The short range ones? Good luck, you gonna need lots of it in t8+ match
I honestly think a good day in a Roon and Hindenburg is having less than six ships aiming at you (And that average day of bring targeted by 6 or more was happening BEFORE the commander rework)
Also the player base culture is not supportive of skill based play. Too many are trying to find advantages like 2 vs 1 matchups or seal clubbing to win. When everyone is playing t5 for example? Where is the need to counter balance a disadvantage? I run into players with 3,4,5,6,7 years playing low tiers against guys with very lil experience. Then these experienced players insist that they should use focus fire or other tactics to get advantages. The problem is, does not the fact that you have many years experience over your competition already give you the advantage? Where is the sportsmanship?
No. Not for the main guns. Cruisers won't stand a chance. Secondaries sure. AA absolutely. No one wants to be pushing in against 3 ships w/ CV around. No reduction to fire duration but perhaps increase fire resistance. The point is not to increase performance in battle ships, but increase survivability when pushing in. Especially against CV.
@@RedArmyUnit17 If I catch a cruiser dead to rights in my BB, broadside at 10-12km, he should explode, not overpen, not miss. It's ridiculous how survivable cruisers are nowadays even if they play like potatoes.
@@suriles4652 bruh, BBs literally overmatch angled cruisers for 20k dmg per salvo from 20km. I agree on buffing BBs survivability so they can play more aggressive, but there's no reason at all to complain about their firepower.
when cruisers have 16-20km range that just HE spam you all game, why would i ever push up, i get focused as a giant slow target, and it doesnt matter if i take pen damage, i get lit on fire constantly
Fire damage actually equal to citadel damage if not mitigated the difference is it can be repaired however still hurts like hell. Armor no longer BB exclusive perk since they release Soviet line cruiser, some of this ship is powerful enough to citadel BB which is stupid if you wanted rock paper scissor gameplay, WG always try to hide behind this idea however since they introduce CV and future would be submarine this game no longer rock paper scissor game.
HE spam being my biggest bugbear. in a BB you can't dodge it, you can't angle against it, and you can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as those 3 fires that you put out with Damacon are dealt with and the protection from fires wears off, within seconds its 1 - 2 fires or even 3. And then when you do push despite rainbows of HE falling all around you, a DD pops up at 4km and fires off its torps. You fire your *insert main gun size here* at them. of the 9 shots fired, 6 act like you raised the guns and violently shook the turret from side to side, or the barrel was bent at right angles and go anywhere BUT where you're aiming, 2 somehow bounce off due to angling and you get 1 overpen, that does bugger all damage. At which point you've eaten 6 torpedoes and are dead. Oh and your secondaries are useless during this as they might as well be firing at a different postcode rather than at the enemy DD as all they do is spray shots around it. Pushing in a BB, especially if your cruisers are cowering behind islands and farting out HE rainbows themselves, and your DD's are being menaced by aircraft carriers or said HE rainbows is suicidal.
They should give BB like 20 second radar enough for single volley maybe or give each BB sonar, for me personally as Cruiser I need to get close to use my radar, I even get close if I am playing missouri however with other BB why I wanted to get close? No reason at all, secondary sucks, no utility, I cannot soak damage, I cannot give AA shield and I can be seen from miles away.
@@gkagara I'd not go that far re sonar/radar, what i'd do is swap the amount of burning time around. DD's burn for what 20 seconds and BB's a full minute right? Why should a battleship with their larger and more extensive damage control teams actually burn for longer vs a DD that might only have 1 - 2 teams of people trying to put the fires out. If a BB only burned for 20 seconds it would be a lot better. Also i'd buff secondary accuracy across the board to protect against charging DD's.
@@sharlin648 it can be that way too, just give player reason to push, because right now being close is not rewarding enough, you basically have nothing to do, bad secondary, no utility, nothing to your name.
@@aristosachaion_ No... Requesting support could say from behind... We need a push with me, or grow balls message. And we need more reward for brawling and pushing. Battleships are made to take insane amount of damage. So they need to tank. WG need to stop weakening them by nerfing AAA, nerfing torpedo belts (i mean when in a yamato i take 23K dmg with one torp in the torpedo bulge from a shima... Where are the 40+ absorption!!!) make it more resistant to cruiser shells. And making a litteral reward for tanking for your teamate! I mean battleship should be around 5/10km away from its dd max. And cruiser are not the one who should be focus and take damage. BBs are here for that purpose! But yeah, since bbs got range and guns dealing damage whatever the range, yeah, they camp.
It's a bad joke how split up the stuff is that can push your secondaries, especially since all of it is Level 3 or 4 skills, where they compete directly with skills that are going to be more useful in most cases, Camo, Fire prevention and an added heal. Tbh, they should just bring back the old superintended on level 3...
i think that skills like this can help allot: pen DMG to superstructore will be healed not 50% like other pens, but 100% like fires/floods. Or make tricky skills, which will made you lose flood, but you will get worse reload/speed.
Every class feels like if you make a mistake you can just be dead with no way to recover. Even if there is an island to take cover, you will not leave that island unless your teammates push them away from you.
I agree very much with your first sentence. The reason I liked this game so much was because, EARLY ON, at low tiers (less than 7) I felt like there was some room for error. That is, if I made a positioning mistake, I would lose maybe 15% to 35% of my hp. Positioning mistakes at tiers 7 to 10 tend to cost about 30% to 70% of my hp. Oh well.
This is a key too: it's difficult to know WHEN to push successfully and this game has a very steep learning curve. Battleships are likely popular because, to an extent, they are more forgiving of mistakes in positioning compared to other classes. As PQ said "getting one-shot[ted] sucks"
Mainly because overpowered HE Spam, secondary build nerfs. I loved to push with my secondary BBs but nowadays with the nerf that makes them useless, is just a quick way to be focus fired and he-spammed to death, and back to port. Oh, and dont forget sky-cancer.
One thing that might work is having the ship hull and superstructure have each their own Hp this way once the superstructure is done it can't be used anymore by fires or shells to deal damage to the entire ship. Just then would the armor of the ship become something real that does what is supposed to do. But I might be very wrong as well.
This is a good idea, they already have separate HP pools, all WG would have to do is lower the HP of the superstructure or make it saturate like french dd's. It would probably help angled battleships be a bit tankier.
@@PotatoQuality yes that's interesting, I didn't know they're separate already... But what I meant specifically is that after the superstructure is saturated if there's a fire burning on the superstructure the ship's whole HP is still going down and that's a good reason for staying away from HE spammers.
@@PotatoQuality That might work, considering my favorite way to deal with nose in tanky BBs and CAs in my Battleship is AP overpen the superstructure with all my guns...better than shattering and bouncing off their hull and more reliable than switching to HE in a lot of circumstances.
This is the way, actually, you need to make BB better at tanking and WG should make secondary battery firing range longer because for most ship secondary is just decoration I personally think secondary should fire at least 15 km for GK and the rest of tier 10 around 11-13 km depend on their concealment and like 6 km at minimum at lowest tier.
I think one thing that could seriously help this game is if there's a hard limit put in on how much you can farm a ships superstructure. Currently, something like Austin, Minotaur, Haragumo, Colbert, Smolensk, etc can just absolutely melt a BB in a minutes while only hitting it's superstructure. Situations like that when I'm the BB player make me turn around and never push the rest of the game as long as those ships are still alive. That is still one of the most annoying mechanics in this game, that you can be in a floating fortress of a ship yet get sunk in minutes through your superstructure alone, even regardless of angling. That needs to be stopped, and WG needs to set a hard cap of a certain percent of a ships HP that can be taken from the superstructure (and this goes for every class).
Most people dont understand what pushing actually is. Pushing is bullshit, its not rugby. Its more like making presure to show broadise when evading, its like rushing smoke with sonar. Opening radars so enemy DDs will try to leave. And there are caps, when you have one, why to push? Defending is easier. What i think is good change is to make caps that will honor pushing-- team will get a points from a cap, when ships are in cap, and more tons of ships= better. PS: one note: how you can want BBs to push, when there is one anti push of all/ torps from good camo DDs? that just stupid. And if they buff secondaries on BBs- okay np there
@@andrjmolotov672 yeah like moving caps into enemy lines so both teams have to play aggro/def mode not just camping Because the cap is stationary so enemy radar no need to push just say hello on dd then dd sunk
@@grimmshredsanguinus2915 Moving caps? np with test that. I think caps that will make you heal slowly or buff would enforce agresivnes of the team with less caps. They would know that pasivity makes them even weaker and weaker
i played games in Yamato and Gk and i am less than 10km from a broadside cruiser, i fire my salvo of 8 or 9 shells and all land around the cruiser some behind some infront and none hit the ship, thats some stupid RNG WG coded in, gun reload and fire again and all the shells land around that cruiser again and only when im 16km away does the shells land on the ship im aiming at, the only ships that are fun now are all the broken ships like Thunderer, Smolensk, Austin, the tech line ships are mostly HOT PILE OF STINKING GARBAGE
@@ainzooalgown7589 Yeap i can have 50% lower range in BB and slow reload but ffs let give those BB all guns accurary (secondary also) and tanking ability !
Flamu organized a competition on the EU server, where he rewarded the winners with the things he considered a ship should do: BBs for potential dmg, Cruisers for damage and DDs for spotting damage. This would be a way to encourage pushing and moving the BBs closer in battle. As a single BB you cannot push (because of HE spam and focus fire) but when you have the backup of another BB and maybe a cruiser or a DD, than you can do it. As DDs can share smokes and spotting so can BBs share tanking. I think that by changing the reward system pushing might happen.
Reasons people’s don’t push in randoms 1.) they are scared to take damage 2.) they think if I do push will i people back me up or stay put....likely they will not follow even I say I’m pushing 3.) high explosive, high damage HE spam 4.) I’ll get focused and die for nothing
@@DrNauseous ive been in that situation so many times too :/ - Most annyoing thing for me is no one pushes even when we massively out number them. it could be 3 bbs, 2CA and a DD vs 1dd and 1CA and they will still stay put lol
Not to mention they 'kick the dead teammate corpse' by spewing insults as if they are playing the 'right' way. If cowardice is the right way, I'll stick with my 'wrong' way...
@@kaerukai1691 @Kaeru Kai feel the pain all the time in my pommern random battle. This is so common in NA server, people mocking pushing BB and sitting that for doing nothing. I am always curious htf a country with so many heroes fought in ww2 ends up like these users in this game.
they just need to implement a thing like : "BBs can only lose 50% of their base health to fire" and boom, people will push (broadside and getting citadelled, hence the boom)
nah you just need team mates to follow the bb push, countless times i have pushed in a GK only to find the 4-5 ships that were behind me turned tail and ran when i started to get focused.
I do this in a DD, particularly if it's American BB because they seem to attract the absolute laziest players. It's also funny when it's a 2 CV per team match and the BB are spamming for Intel data and pinging whatever square I'm in.
@@Texas240 one match in Gearing I got past the DDs and unleashed holly hell on the BBs. I mean at 6.2 km twice nuking two BBs before they even guessed something was up. All 20 torps found homes between the pack of BBs. Moved away, and caught a DD moving back from radar.
The funniest moment i had in my bb was when i was playing slava and had a 1 crusier player yelling at me to push a cap with 3 shims in it and 2 kermlins i was like hell no not in a slava i wont plus then i cant hit anything worse then shotgun dispersion at close and and i have 0 armor and torp protect in slava
@@kuninagako9035 I was in a Oland, I think the tier 8 DD. It was on the map with the two cap points surrounded by islands. I got in there with a Neptune behind me supporting. The normal be in a tier 8 and get a tier 10 match. It was like I could not miss with the torps between the islands and at least two DDs just happened to get a torp or two. Then the DDs that came in had a higher detection and I used the neptune in smoke to spot. After 4 kills by me the other team said, it is sad, there is an oland in cap D with no smoke just bullying tier 10s. Sure I had help in the neptune to back me up, but I had radio detection and just was bullying the other ships Then the Yammy tried to bully me and got all my torps and a few from the Neptune, then we ran. After the other teams DD player commented, I typed in MINE! ONe thing knowing what ships you are fighting against is priceless. OR jsut prevents you from doing just dumb things. I had over 150 k damage with almost as much spotting damage.
So how long until people start to understand that deadeye was not the issue or cause of the meta, but merely the only solution battleships had to deal with the toxic he spam and torpedo meta? How long? The only time WG listened to it's customers is when their customer had no fucking clue what they where talking about. Ridiculous
@@rapkriticar3076 benham US DD stealing IJN gimmicks with torpedo fest, Sommers as well, Halland with hypersonic torpedo? 95 knot? 15 km range? Not torpedo fest enough for you? Tier 8 Harekaze, Asashio also have torpedo reload booster I think tier 7 you got Yudachi, without sonar you won't be able to dodge it or do something about it.
@@rapkriticar3076 Yes, this is coming from who exactly? a 1000 pr player?. Top dogs of this game have always been dds ever since the game was created, DDs always had twice as much battle infulence as BBs. Over the time they have added more and more overtuned DDs like Benham, Halland, Marceau and many others that cripple BBs so hard, every fucking patch of this game since 2015 has been a shitting on a Battleship class, with no exception, only with the Dead Eye it was for the first time in 5 years that the WEEGEE added something that actually helped Battleships be less reliant on RNG and that their main thing, their main guns actually hit and good UNICUM bb players that can ACTUALLY AIM capitalized of it. I like the skill, it made the game no worse than it is, because the battleships were never the reason for the state of the game, since they have by far THE LEAST battle influence.
the biggest problem is that you mix up to three tier ships against each other a bb tier 8 does not have a chance against a tier X dd or cruiser if it tries to make a push
You answered all your own questions :D The main problem is that players complain about not enough reward for pushing in, but they don't really know what reward they want at the same time. And probably there is no one single right answer too. A lot of videos talk about the problems of WOWS, but they don't offer any possible solution too. Because neither the devs or the players really know the best answer.
having switched from War Thunder to World of Warships just 2 Weeks ago i thank you for your videos, they helped me a lot to improve myself and to know what and how to do
If the Armor layouts are historic then maybe make the gun penetration over range realistic. If every ship in the game had penetration curves like the do on Yorke Then you allow for "zones of Immunity" to be a thing. Which increases survivability across the board
Battleships eventually start to move up when they see their destroyers chillin' near them in the back line. It's probably my most amusing gameplay when in DD.
As dd main I still agree with you. I play all class ( not counting cvs as class in WOWS) and I find BBs most frustrating to play. I find myself raging all the time, because of overpen mechanic and fire chance of HE. Unfortunately telling the truth means no CC for you PQ. Still thanks for trying to make this game better.
This is part of why I enjoy playing the middle tiers; some of them just don't "know better" yet, and there aren't a whole lot of firehose cruisers and ultra-overmatch battleships rolling around.
One time I had closed to within 8 km of a Kremlin showing flat broadside because of a cyclone in my Conqueror, and after firing 2 AP salvos he still hadn't moved and no citadels cause I hit everything but his ship, and I got farmed to death from 3/4 health, really sucks sometimes being the most RNG reliant class in the game, wish they'd try to remedy that problem so skill gets rewarded and idiots get punished more consistently
I have felt that there is more team play in ranked battle these days since the rewards are based more on team wins. I find myself enjoying ranked battles more than randoms.
True. I had tons of fun in ranked probably because that mode seems fast paced and people actually push in. I had a blast playing Georgia, Iowa, Cleveland, Roon, Hindenburg and Riga in ranked. Tons of fun. Random battles just feel slow. Like too slow...
They could remove literally every ship type in the game except battleships and they still wouldn't push up. Back in ye olde days of 2016 where they were literally half the queue and 5-6 battleships per team was the norm, they wouldn't push up. The only time I can remember that BBs tried this is following the release of German BBs, and a whole lot of focus fire quickly taught them that such aggression was usually rewarded with death.
Perhaps, but I really think battleships pushed up more in the past and were rewarded more for it. I may be remembering wrong as it's been a while. But back in the day zao was the only cruiser with 30mm (now the majority have 30mm armor), IFA/PT didn't exist and you had to take a skill to even see if you were detected. General DPM and range on cruisers/destroyers were far lower. I really do think it was much easier to push up and people got punished far harder when a battleship did get close back in 2015/2016
@@PotatoQuality There are also far more BBs these days with 430mm+ guns that can overmatch 30mm armor. This combined with deadeye means that the only way to stay alive in a cruiser is to either stay at max range 18+ km away or play an island hugger. BB accuracy is also far too high at long range. There is no incentive for BBs to push up if they can simply do the same amount of damage at 20km.
or When your BB is on cap- you get better secondaries. Or skill which will prioritze shoting weak aft/bow with seconadiers. Mybe skill which will let yyou longer reload of MB to secondaries ( Temporarly)
This isn't really any new realization, but it is something that many people haven't thought of, so it's great that someone who people listen to brings it up. I had a hiatus from from the game from September to January, and upon coming back, I didn't really notice big difference in BB positioning. Yes, it is campy, but so was the September positioning. The game has been like this for a good while already, the commander rework just made a lot of people realize it.
You make a good point about increasing armor. It's the most benign thing you can do - no gun changes, no skill tweaks. Introduce tech tree upgrades (my word, even for tier 10!). Armor upgrade for a GK for instance, I could see players going for it.
In all honesty what might fix the issue if HE received a universal nerf and a adjustment to fires, and if they add more effective survivability skills like perhaps a BB skill that takes 50% cooldown from your DCP if you have more ships in your base concealment range. AA is an issue to but the main cause is all the cruisers with stupid high dpm, stupid strong HE and fire chance, (some) can only be overmatched by 18" shells or higher, smoke, can hide behind islands, and has more than 19km of range. That is the main reason why BB's dont push. Ships like a well positioned Smolensk, Austin, Henry, minotaur, Hindenburg, ect. are really good at punishing a pushing bb.
Thanks for this video. Everything you said is spot on. No reason to push in random battles. Incentives are to pick of f ships around the map and stay out of range.
BBs weren't pushing before Dead Eye, and they won't push after it. It's like people completely forgot that this is the way it's been for years now, and for some reason they believe that removing Dead Eye will magically fix everything.
Even the existing fire reduction captain skills, combined with the flags, are severely insufficient to actually mitigate fire damage. I have all the survival talents on Nelson and it's barely manageable with its HUGE heal. If it's just HE spam, it's fine. They're just charging up the heal. However, if a little AP (especially from another BB) or torpedoes (either DD or CV) get mixed in even that heal isn't enough to stand a chance against the fire, flooding, and impact damage. It's actually the only BB I play, because it's fun. I also, slowly (25 kts top speed), push towards a cap. I usually let the team know that I'm lumbering in and ask them not to suicide before I get there. Pushing in may not be the most sound strategy, but I'm playing the game to...wait for it...PLAY THE GAME, not just sit around hoping I get a firing solution on a long range target before half the team (and all the scouts) are dead. Interestingly, when talk of deadeye being removed started, I'd seen several BB in different ranked matches talking about how they like ranked because it allows them to push more, actually play the game, and even run secondary builds because ranges close faster and the map isn't spammed with ships all in few hot spots of a random match.
Step 1: Unnerf/buff secondaries back to or better than they used to be Step 2: buff FP Step 3: add more anti-HE skills (like, say, in place of SiS... why)/separate superstructure damage from HP damage after saturation Step 4: hope the player base pushes because at the end of the day, they’re the problem.
There was issues with people not pushing in prior to dead eye. Pushing in and catching HE spam from 4 ships hiding behind islands and in smoke that aren't spotted while not having much in ability to maneuver makes you a free kill.
Not just HE spam but they don't want to catch a salvo of torpedoes fired from ships they can never see and cannot even try to take out without dying from massed torp spam.
It just isn't very feasible... there are way too many counters to BBs that you are taking such a massive risk every time you play aggresively. There is SOOOO much HE, good torpedos everywhere, Italian cruisers with their smoke and SAP too, DDs are still a problem. If your team doesn't push too then it is certain death; and the team rarely does. Tank builds and secondary / brawling builds just don't stand a chance anymore. Of course, there are other problems and a poorly designed skill rework... I miss playing this game years ago when it wasn't saturated with obscene ships and this rework; it was much more enjoyable and balanced as well as more playstyles being viable.
HE - Spam. That is why BB's don't push. Because if a BB pushes, he WILL be the only one of his ships doing so. And he will be focussed by the CV, the two Thunderers with HE loaded, A smolensk, A Des Moines, A Worcester and a Harugumo. Meanwhile he will be torped by Two Hallands also causing floodings.
I love that you think about this game on a deeper level than most. "Why don't people push in?" I said out loud - "cus you get dead quick bro..." hahaha Keep up the great analysis my friend!
People blame Deadeye, but the real issue is secondaries being nerfed. If I had secondaries that were more than graphics glitz and could actually provide some defense, a 30 second main reload wouldn't mean instant death up close.
I think that the reward for BBs who get close is not consistent enough and that the expectency of damage also plays a role (hopefully that was somewhat correct english). I still remember that one time years ago, where i loaded up my Fuso and right at the start of the game, when the CV was spotting the first bbs, i launched my spotterplane and i just oneshot a New Mexico from max range. Things like that stick in your memory, when they happen. The closer you get, the more you expect your guns to be accurate enough to oneshot a ship. However as anybody, who has ever played a bb, knows that rng can completely screw you over in those brawling-situations. If you oneshot a guy at 5km you just think "my guns did, what they are supposed to do" and that doesn't stick in your mind. Allthough, what you will remember from your brawls, are all those times when you had the flat broadside of a ship and just get 5 overpens and a pen, because more and more ships get designed in a way that citadelling them is more of a rarity than a real weakness (see all the lowered citas on american bbs, smolensk, german bbs...)
I am really bad at this game. I almost quit until I was introduced to secondary battleships. This made all the difference. I am still bad, but in coop games I can push in with my bb. I am sure this would not work in random games, but bots don't seem to be as aggressive as real players.
The problem stems from HE being turned into budget gold ammo. It used to be only good for starting fires and doing damage to ships instead of overpens. With the introduction of IFHE and high alpha HE they reintroduced a broken mechanic that was removed in the CBT, spalling. It used to be that all shatters still did damage. Atlantas used to be able to reliably melt BBs. With AP being the ammo of choice it was vital to try to get angles to exploit, requires movement. Sitting still made you vulnerable to torps from DDs and CVs and again being on the move was key(this was before the maneuverability nerf that, you used to be able to reliably dodge torps in BBs so their ruddershift times and time it took for the ship to turn were nerfed to make them easier to hit.) In short as long as you weren't sailing or sitting broadside you could recover from your mistakes. Recovering from mistakes is the keypoint, players choose option that give them more options, at a certain point you can't turn around, you can't disengage in a BB it becomes do or die and that number tends to be around 14-12km. Once you go below 12km you cannot disengage, it is also the point were most torps in the game can reach you. With damage done being the primary mean to earn xp the obvious choice is to play for time because you can always do more damage. Pushing up just doesn't pay like said, even if you push and get a good position your shells are now either deflected or swallowed by void armor for no damage. That is where the DPM game really shows it's ugly head. Imagine taking a justified risk, pushing, getting a broadside and surprise you get two overpens, a bounce and your one pen does no damage. 4kdamage, now wait 30 sec. In the meantime your facing a some kind of dakka machine that can do reliable 15k damage in that time, not even counting fires. It's just safer and mathematically more practical to sail in the back.
This made me remember a colombo game i had: i got spotted by a DD, then got shot at by a conqueror and thunderer at 23km, it ended up with me losing 65k health in barely a minute or 2. Sure i coud've used my smoke, but.... since when is 23km away from the nearest enemy and heavily angled such a dangerous situation that you will end up dead even when trying to dodge all the HE being thrown at you??
When i push in a BB i die 80% of the time, because in randoms you CAN NOT COUNT on your team. People use pushing BB-s as a free spot+distraction so they can farm dmg, not supporting him, just farming whatever they can shoot freely because the enemy focuses the BB. The problem is the matchmaking. It needs to be skill based. Like this, nothing will ever change, doesn't matter what skill they change.
Risk of taking damage and Reward for causing damage is tied to ship XP, Comm XP, free XP and credits awarded at end of game. Current rewards do not differentiate enough between damage taken and damage dished out from backline campers or front line pushers. Hence the current meta of backline campers using deadeye. To change behaviors, removing deadeye is a start but WeeGee also needs to reduce how much XP (Ship, Comm and Free) and credits is awarded to backline campers. In essence, they already have this in the Co-op game mode where playing against bots is awarded much less of everything than playing in randoms. Just my 2 cents.
Fix German Secondaries!!! I loved the feeling of pushing and getting into that sweet 8-10km range knowing that I was a true threat to any Cruisers or DD's thanks to my secondaries. Now they can just rapid fire me and set me on fire as I watch 1 out of 50 of my secondaries get a hit.
I love how everyone blamed deadeye as the only reason people didn't push, and now that it is going away, you all admit that deadeye had NOTHING to do with not pushing it. All it did was give better dispersion when at range. Here is one of those predictable "I told you so" moments.
Not like i used deadeye in any of my bbs anyway still wont stop me from siting in the back sniping and cross firing people in my slava. Till they rework HE and fires to be less punishing i wont be taking out any of my brawling bbs.
@@kuninagako9035 Agreed, or if they did more to encourage pushing as a group. Either make all captain skills only activate if you are more than 5 squares from the back and near at least 1 other friendly...;-)
I think firing-range is one of the biggest factors.. In lower tiers, you can push, because you are simply out of range of over half of the opposition. At T10, that just isn't the case. You move forward and almost the entire opposition can focus you unless you're lucky to be on a map with a nice line of islands to cover from one side.
I learned the meta when I tried brawling in german bbs and getting cruisers and dds with 1 second reloads lighting me up, then going the american battleship line and getting citadels from 20-30km away
You're right.. Although I do think that deadye changes the 'perception'. In that without it, camping was generally considered bad play and called out. With it, the view is the opposite - that its ok to camp because you can still be effective. This perception is a big contributing factor impacting whether you get support or not when pushing (or whether you think you will get support). If you think you won't, you won't push. Deadye changes mindset.. 'I'm a sniper now, so even if allies fo push, I'm staying here and sniping.
@@wulfthofengaming457 OK, you remove fire spamming for cruisers from the game, the cruisers will never play again or will sit in the back by the BBs because this entire video talked about how randoms are not a team game.
@@jwolf6655 random public matches nobody is a team in any game. Problem with the game is it doesn't reward teamwork as much as it rewards damage. More damage you do the more XP and Money you make so everyone in random tries to get as much damage as they can to get good xp and money.
I used to play a game called "GUILD WARS". they had a mini map on which the team could create plans and give simple lines of attack without needing to have fast typing skills. WOW's encourages you to focus on the targets and not type long messages in chat (let alone deal with the "Trash talkers"). Perhaps looking at how teams can communicate better would be a help to overcome the sit at the back issue, and a lot of the time I will do that if I think I won't get support to move up. It needs a big change of something to alter this mindset within the game
I feel like I'm a dying breed then, all I do is push. Most of the times, I'm along and have to end up turning tail and kiting, but when my team follows, it's glorious! Just last night I decided to push a cruiser and 2 BBs contesting a cap cuddling behind an island in my Pommern. To my surprise, a crusier and BB team mate followed close behind, it was an awesome brawl with secondaries going crazy. The match ended before the fight came to a resolution sadly....but we would have won :P
I 100% agree with your assessment.. its how I was starting to feel before the changes.. and it would be nice to see more people shooting at dds.. the team with them tend to win and the team without them tend to lose..
That was a good overview of the situation. BBs just don't benefit from closing range as much as the enemy benefits from the BB closing the range. Even on "brawler BBs" like the Russians or the Germans, it doesn't add that much to close the gap, especially with secondary nerfs.
I agree with you 💯%! WG must slow the power creep; That seems to just continue to increase exponentially from year to year. I just hope that they don't "F" the game up too much more than they already have. Keep up the great work my man. Cheers!
I haven’t played that much in nearly two years, and I’m still cognizant of this issue; outranging the enemy doesn’t mean anything if you can’t spot them, don’t control the map/objectives, or work as a team.
I've maintained since the rework dropped that Deadeye and Top Grade Gunner got put onto the wrong ships. Maybe if battleships were able to do more damage for pushing in, they'd want to spend more time leading the charge.
I usually never push in unless I see at least 2 other larger ships on my side doing so, and even then I'll only follow if our flank has a distinct advantage, whether that be in numbers, average ship tier, or CV support if there is one. And sometimes, even with all that in place, the push can still stall.
11:00 I disagree with what you’re saying here. Before WG introduced high-tier 457mm spam, most Tier X cruisers could at least bounce 406mm shells off their deck armor, and it wasn’t just Zao. Hindenburg, Henri, Yoshino, Des Moines etc. all have 30mm deck armor that gave them significantly better survivability than they have now. Only DM had the 27mm upper belt that made it vulnerable, and even this was later buffed to 30mm. Then WG unloaded Ohio, Thunderer, Georgia, Kremlin, etc. and just obliterated most cruisers’ ability to bounce shells.
They should give more xp for spotting damage, potential damage received and ribbons (and xp) for actuallt beeing set on fire. So.. For a bb to make it more lucrative to axtually do tanking.
It's not just the HE spamming meta, its the fucking torpedo flood meta as well. I swear that the introduction of halland (and smaland to a lesser extent) convinced the last aggressive BB players to just sit the fuck back and snipe.
In my opinion, WG EXP rewarding system is also broken. You don't get to much EXP when you sacrifice for your team, but you get a lot even your team lose but survive till the end. Then the goal of random battle changed due to this system, everybody fight for their own, teammates are your potential enemies. Top right corner number is EVERYTHING you need in the random.
Have damage saturation for fires and have it so starting another fire dose not refresh the time untill the original fire is put out. This will make it so HE spam is not just a insta win v BB's
It would be so easy to fix the problem. Perk: „the nearer you are at an objective, enemy etc. you get rewards X (more fireprevention %, more accurate/reload blabla)“. Or make secondaries playable again. Reward obj playing and not „the further you are the more accuracy or the longer you survive and get more xp“!
The main reason, why people don't push is the game design. In this game, players focus on targets, that are easy to kill and grant a lot damage. Even if a full team would push, there will be one target, that is the easiest to kill. And that will be focused. So in a random match, as soon a person decides to push and "tank", he will be focused extremly heavy and die in a short time. This becomes heavier, as soon you reach higher tiers, because then gun ranges are larger, thus enemies can shoot over the half map to hit a pushing ship
BBs rarely pushed before Deadeye, so it makes sense that they won't after the Deadeye changes. When the DPM of cruisers is so much higher than BBs, HE spam can keep them ablaze, and there are so many torpedoes in the water that a sailor could walk from one ship to another on top of them... brawling isn't so great. CVs only further complicate matters as BBs risk giving broadside when trying to dodge torpedo squadrons. I don't have all the answers, but the problems are pretty evident.
the game is designed in a way such that the kiting (defending) side can easily out trade the pushing (attacking) side. In this video, for example, a good henry IV player can easily out trade any pushing BB with rudder and throttle regardless of the skill level of the BB players. As a BB player, what I do now is to reserve pushing. I still tank for my team, but I can disengage much quicker without giving broadside. The trade off is that I push slowly, but compare with not pushing at all, I think it's more supportive to my team.
One way to prevent this is to make every ship in this game with terrible back firing angle, i.e. if you want to fire all the guns while kiting away, you have to give broadside. (of course it will make open water cruiser much harder to play)
I think the best way to make BBs to push is to have the secondaries on manual control... No, not as int was in the past but with control as you have for your main guns or torps. Pretty much you have two sets of guns ones with long range and big alfa, and an other set with higher DPM, low alfa and shorter range... The secondaries can be balanced from ship to ship and this way 16'' BBS like Montana and GK can be made relevant again.... For instance Montana could have 7km range for its secondaries and can chose either HE or AP for their guns (just like for main guns). GK has 2 secondary types of 7Km and 9Km but have only HE and AP respectively which means that GK could burn and citadel a ship at the same time... The angles of the secondary guns can also be used for balancing since could force a player to either maintain angling to avoid taking damage but, in that case its secondary dpm will be shit or turn broad-side and risk getting sunk... Manual secondaries could be implemented also for super-heavy cruisers (Alaska, Stalingrad) and heavy cruisers with secondaries higher than 100mm however the range of their secondaries should be quite low (no more than 6 Km). To balance this out all DDs should have torp reload time decrease by 10 to 15%. For BBs an upgrade module can be added which allows secondaries to be controlled together with the main guns (called something like "central fire control directory"), this could make BB's life much easier when in CQB however it could come at the cost of main gun accuracy...
I think that nerfing brawling BBs is one of main issues. Before commander rework it was common to see german BBs pushing, sometimes even succesful. Now there is no reason to play brawling BBs
Agree. Even I have stoped running sek build on my GK
I have deadeye build on my GK now and its way more fun than a Secondary build, I will still continue to use a range build once they remove deadeye
I used to fear GK anytime I saw one close to a cap. Nowadays they never make it unless there are big islands to shield them
@@illominus6228 I will run Sec build on my GK with Lutjens until they pry secondaries from my cold, dead hands, even if they aren't meta.
not true i always pushed in my BB before dead eye.
the only reward of a BB pushing is the thrill of the YOLO
When it works it works big 👍😂
YOLO!!! And the screams of your random teammates raging.
@@rh906 dude of you really want to get them going to tell them “ok I’m going to potato wish me luck!” They start losing their minds 😂
So, doing their dang job, and actually help win...not a reward? There's the problem, right there.
Keep in mind, no one is seeing charge full speed ahead, straight into the teeth of the enemy. But BBs should be at mid range...that was ALWAYS where they belonged.
@@markwurden6564 The problem is that at mid-range and closer, you are in range of enemy torpedoes, cruisers, HE spam, other BBs, Carriers and soon submarines and with generally low detectability, maneruverabilty and only okay-ish speed the enemy knows EXACTLY where you are at all times.
This is not easy, and requires you to know what you are doing, else you get killed in 10 seconds and are of no use to anyone.
So people don't do it. The game rewards sitting in the back shooting 150K damage games just as much as securing a flank, tanking 580K damage for your teammates...
ACTUALLY I LIED it doesn't reward tanking damage AT ALL.
No one wants to get burnt down in a blink of an eye. HE spam is still too strong.
Totally agree, but for some odd reason i hear people say its because of bad positioning you getting burned down.. go figure right? :)
Exactly. Why push and get toasted in minutes?
Pushing at the right in the right place is actually quite tricky.
Its a bit of both to be fair.
Wrong time wrong place and you'll be toast before you know it.
@@machoalright Cant positiong right cause CV end you quick when you play in BB
@@gotfrydzbouillon4191 Depends if you've got support when pushing. If that's the case, CV won't be an issue.
I love to push in but my ship will be melted by HE spammers. The cruiser just love shooting HE and Thunderer sniping that cause 10k damage and 2 fires
Dont forget dakka dds and lightcruisers
I agree. BBs hanging back has been an issue since the beginning of the game. Removing Deadeye will not make this go away but it will stop giving them visible rewards for doing so.
They should add the real armor schemes with 50mm deck and no pens or overpens
Cant blame brit or french bbs with 32mm plating everywhere taking pens even from dds
When u pick a bb the only real vibe is the big guns u just het 2 fires detected from the heaven and blasted to the abyss
BBs need to get xp for taking damage/potential damage, thatll fix it.
@@paddington1670 so camp take dmg gg
Could I perchance bother you to explain to me why that is an "issue" exactly? I don't play the game but it does sound exactly like what the standard battleship was in fact designed to do. Get into a position where it can fire broadside without fear of friendly fire and plink away at the enemy at long range.
What they should do is lower points and awards for players of specific ships that refuses to be active particapates.
My 4 year anniversary in this game just came up. Back then, people were complaining about BBs not pushing up. Ive just given up on this
BBs dont push cause nobody help. I rush in every battle in my BB and i take help 1 on 20 matches. So whose fault it is ? I end risking my BB sunk down for nothing. Now i play for in long / medium range play even if i dont like it cause is boring.
Ahh the good ol days when players whined about the "Mega-Zao" Little did they know!
Well, you can't go the complete opposite way and just mindlessly push from the start of the game. I've seen BB players push like idiots despite our entire flank being outnumbered 2:1.
newsflash... it was the same still back when they first released Bismark as a premium only (2009 / 2010 if memory serves, was about 6 months before we shipped out to Portland for Operation Top Off)
@@aristosachaion_ This is the problem I see. I am by no means a good player but how are people deciding where to go right at the whistle when you have no intel? If I see a big blob appear on the other side of the cap I'm not going to push into it I'm GTFO and head to a cap with less or even no contestation. If I get spotted I continue to kite away while firing until I can get undetected by island, smoke, or range. But it seems too many just want to slug it out at the start of the game and then whichever team had the most players smart enough to try to play tactically would win.
I think we need a fire-saturation mechanic, where the number of fires your ship get set on in the duration of the match reduces fire and HE damage. It makes a lot of sense realistically as well, since there would be a point after which the entire superstructure is just wrecked and any additional fire should not do the same damage.
yup like what they did to sap vs dds easy fix 40% fire damage and then its over
I would push more in my bbs if that was a thing and dust off my brawling ships again. Right now tho just going to keep playing slava
@@kuninagako9035 would be nis only have 44k haven't decided what i what for my first research ship Iowa is the first choise but the vap2 is a very close second followed by the colbert
Well, technically everyone would be dead by then and molten metal would collapse and destroy everything under the deck...
You've truly never seen focus fire until you've been a T8 CL that's spotted first in a T10 game. Love seeing that 7 on my PT.
Only 7? sometimes ist goes straight to 9 or more xD
Sad reality for Cruiser players nowadays. At least BBs have long engagement ranges and DDs have concealment. Cruisers, esp. The short range ones? Good luck, you gonna need lots of it in t8+ match
I honestly think a good day in a Roon and Hindenburg is having less than six ships aiming at you (And that average day of bring targeted by 6 or more was happening BEFORE the commander rework)
@@Torbadill if you are aimed at by 7/9 enemies, its your fault, lol :D :D
@@andrjmolotov672 also true ^^
Oh boy, what a surprise people won't push without skills that encourage pushing and aren't a joke.
I better -cry- swift in Silence
Also the player base culture is not supportive of skill based play. Too many are trying to find advantages like 2 vs 1 matchups or seal clubbing to win. When everyone is playing t5 for example? Where is the need to counter balance a disadvantage? I run into players with 3,4,5,6,7 years playing low tiers against guys with very lil experience. Then these experienced players insist that they should use focus fire or other tactics to get advantages. The problem is, does not the fact that you have many years experience over your competition already give you the advantage? Where is the sportsmanship?
Reduce burn time on bb's and increase accuracy of both main and secondary guns as you get closer, across the board.
Agry !
No. Not for the main guns. Cruisers won't stand a chance. Secondaries sure. AA absolutely. No one wants to be pushing in against 3 ships w/ CV around. No reduction to fire duration but perhaps increase fire resistance. The point is not to increase performance in battle ships, but increase survivability when pushing in. Especially against CV.
@@RedArmyUnit17 If I catch a cruiser dead to rights in my BB, broadside at 10-12km, he should explode, not overpen, not miss. It's ridiculous how survivable cruisers are nowadays even if they play like potatoes.
@@RedArmyUnit17 Point of Cruisers is fight on back not in front so that BBs should have better close range accurary.
@@suriles4652 bruh, BBs literally overmatch angled cruisers for 20k dmg per salvo from 20km. I agree on buffing BBs survivability so they can play more aggressive, but there's no reason at all to complain about their firepower.
when cruisers have 16-20km range that just HE spam you all game, why would i ever push up, i get focused as a giant slow target, and it doesnt matter if i take pen damage, i get lit on fire constantly
Ok lets say you play a cruiser with 15 km at tier 10. Your actions in battle wil be what exactly?
@@2138Dude about 200k damage and farming everything
Fire damage actually equal to citadel damage if not mitigated the difference is it can be repaired however still hurts like hell. Armor no longer BB exclusive perk since they release Soviet line cruiser, some of this ship is powerful enough to citadel BB which is stupid if you wanted rock paper scissor gameplay, WG always try to hide behind this idea however since they introduce CV and future would be submarine this game no longer rock paper scissor game.
@@gkagara Exactly! It’s like in Elementary School where kids would add “gun” or “tornado” to the game. To where it just gets more ridiculous.
HE spam being my biggest bugbear. in a BB you can't dodge it, you can't angle against it, and you can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as those 3 fires that you put out with Damacon are dealt with and the protection from fires wears off, within seconds its 1 - 2 fires or even 3. And then when you do push despite rainbows of HE falling all around you, a DD pops up at 4km and fires off its torps. You fire your *insert main gun size here* at them. of the 9 shots fired, 6 act like you raised the guns and violently shook the turret from side to side, or the barrel was bent at right angles and go anywhere BUT where you're aiming, 2 somehow bounce off due to angling and you get 1 overpen, that does bugger all damage. At which point you've eaten 6 torpedoes and are dead. Oh and your secondaries are useless during this as they might as well be firing at a different postcode rather than at the enemy DD as all they do is spray shots around it.
Pushing in a BB, especially if your cruisers are cowering behind islands and farting out HE rainbows themselves, and your DD's are being menaced by aircraft carriers or said HE rainbows is suicidal.
True.
They should give BB like 20 second radar enough for single volley maybe or give each BB sonar, for me personally as Cruiser I need to get close to use my radar, I even get close if I am playing missouri however with other BB why I wanted to get close? No reason at all, secondary sucks, no utility, I cannot soak damage, I cannot give AA shield and I can be seen from miles away.
@@gkagara I'd not go that far re sonar/radar, what i'd do is swap the amount of burning time around. DD's burn for what 20 seconds and BB's a full minute right? Why should a battleship with their larger and more extensive damage control teams actually burn for longer vs a DD that might only have 1 - 2 teams of people trying to put the fires out. If a BB only burned for 20 seconds it would be a lot better. Also i'd buff secondary accuracy across the board to protect against charging DD's.
@@sharlin648 it can be that way too, just give player reason to push, because right now being close is not rewarding enough, you basically have nothing to do, bad secondary, no utility, nothing to your name.
WOWS needs a “push with me” quick message
"Requesting support!"
That's it
That would only be replied with the "Negative" quick message.
Then you have no hope of support regardless of what quick message you put out lol
@@aristosachaion_ Requesting support is only for when you've overextended and blame your team lol
@@aristosachaion_ No... Requesting support could say from behind... We need a push with me, or grow balls message. And we need more reward for brawling and pushing. Battleships are made to take insane amount of damage. So they need to tank. WG need to stop weakening them by nerfing AAA, nerfing torpedo belts (i mean when in a yamato i take 23K dmg with one torp in the torpedo bulge from a shima... Where are the 40+ absorption!!!) make it more resistant to cruiser shells. And making a litteral reward for tanking for your teamate! I mean battleship should be around 5/10km away from its dd max. And cruiser are not the one who should be focus and take damage. BBs are here for that purpose! But yeah, since bbs got range and guns dealing damage whatever the range, yeah, they camp.
I would suggest merging the aa skills back into the secondary skills to bring back bft and aft, and create 2 skills that defend against he shots
It's a bad joke how split up the stuff is that can push your secondaries, especially since all of it is Level 3 or 4 skills, where they compete directly with skills that are going to be more useful in most cases, Camo, Fire prevention and an added heal. Tbh, they should just bring back the old superintended on level 3...
i think that skills like this can help allot: pen DMG to superstructore will be healed not 50% like other pens, but 100% like fires/floods. Or make tricky skills, which will made you lose flood, but you will get worse reload/speed.
Every class feels like if you make a mistake you can just be dead with no way to recover. Even if there is an island to take cover, you will not leave that island unless your teammates push them away from you.
I agree very much with your first sentence. The reason I liked this game so much was because, EARLY ON, at low tiers (less than 7) I felt like there was some room for error. That is, if I made a positioning mistake, I would lose maybe 15% to 35% of my hp. Positioning mistakes at tiers 7 to 10 tend to cost about 30% to 70% of my hp. Oh well.
This is a key too: it's difficult to know WHEN to push successfully and this game has a very steep learning curve. Battleships are likely popular because, to an extent, they are more forgiving of mistakes in positioning compared to other classes. As PQ said "getting one-shot[ted] sucks"
Mainly because overpowered HE Spam, secondary build nerfs. I loved to push with my secondary BBs but nowadays with the nerf that makes them useless, is just a quick way to be focus fired and he-spammed to death, and back to port. Oh, and dont forget sky-cancer.
In World of Wood Ship you can´t Pusch! HE exist...
_Laugh in cruiser AP can't damage BB_
@@Meonium Petropavlosk has entered the chat.
In my opinion it's not just that the DPM increased but the ways to counter - play and mitigate have stagnated.
they should put a skill that increase your survivability depending on the number of ships aiming at you for BB
One thing that might work is having the ship hull and superstructure have each their own Hp this way once the superstructure is done it can't be used anymore by fires or shells to deal damage to the entire ship. Just then would the armor of the ship become something real that does what is supposed to do. But I might be very wrong as well.
This is a good idea, they already have separate HP pools, all WG would have to do is lower the HP of the superstructure or make it saturate like french dd's. It would probably help angled battleships be a bit tankier.
@@PotatoQuality yes that's interesting, I didn't know they're separate already... But what I meant specifically is that after the superstructure is saturated if there's a fire burning on the superstructure the ship's whole HP is still going down and that's a good reason for staying away from HE spammers.
@@PotatoQuality That might work, considering my favorite way to deal with nose in tanky BBs and CAs in my Battleship is AP overpen the superstructure with all my guns...better than shattering and bouncing off their hull and more reliable than switching to HE in a lot of circumstances.
This is the way, actually, you need to make BB better at tanking and WG should make secondary battery firing range longer because for most ship secondary is just decoration I personally think secondary should fire at least 15 km for GK and the rest of tier 10 around 11-13 km depend on their concealment and like 6 km at minimum at lowest tier.
@@gkagara I totally agree with you!
I think one thing that could seriously help this game is if there's a hard limit put in on how much you can farm a ships superstructure. Currently, something like Austin, Minotaur, Haragumo, Colbert, Smolensk, etc can just absolutely melt a BB in a minutes while only hitting it's superstructure. Situations like that when I'm the BB player make me turn around and never push the rest of the game as long as those ships are still alive. That is still one of the most annoying mechanics in this game, that you can be in a floating fortress of a ship yet get sunk in minutes through your superstructure alone, even regardless of angling. That needs to be stopped, and WG needs to set a hard cap of a certain percent of a ships HP that can be taken from the superstructure (and this goes for every class).
"why battleships still won't push after deadeye is removed"?
-because neither they did before deadeye
Most people dont understand what pushing actually is. Pushing is bullshit, its not rugby. Its more like making presure to show broadise when evading, its like rushing smoke with sonar. Opening radars so enemy DDs will try to leave. And there are caps, when you have one, why to push? Defending is easier. What i think is good change is to make caps that will honor pushing-- team will get a points from a cap, when ships are in cap, and more tons of ships= better. PS: one note: how you can want BBs to push, when there is one anti push of all/ torps from good camo DDs? that just stupid. And if they buff secondaries on BBs- okay np there
@@andrjmolotov672 yeah like moving caps into enemy lines so both teams have to play aggro/def mode not just camping
Because the cap is stationary so enemy radar no need to push just say hello on dd then dd sunk
@@grimmshredsanguinus2915 Moving caps? np with test that. I think caps that will make you heal slowly or buff would enforce agresivnes of the team with less caps. They would know that pasivity makes them even weaker and weaker
@@andrjmolotov672 nah imagine pushing cvs into caps for the healing hahahah
Secondary accuracy is a very big part of why BBs refuse to push at high tiers .
They should add skills for bbs - closer you are better accurary of main guns and secondary you got for every 1 km - 3%
i played games in Yamato and Gk and i am less than 10km from a broadside cruiser, i fire my salvo of 8 or 9 shells and all land around the cruiser some behind some infront and none hit the ship, thats some stupid RNG WG coded in, gun reload and fire again and all the shells land around that cruiser again and only when im 16km away does the shells land on the ship im aiming at, the only ships that are fun now are all the broken ships like Thunderer, Smolensk, Austin, the tech line ships are mostly HOT PILE OF STINKING GARBAGE
@@ainzooalgown7589 Yeap i can have 50% lower range in BB and slow reload but ffs let give those BB all guns accurary (secondary also) and tanking ability !
Can't expect BB's to push when there releasing new ships like Austin that literally can chunk a full HP GK in 1 of its reload booster
Flamu organized a competition on the EU server, where he rewarded the winners with the things he considered a ship should do: BBs for potential dmg, Cruisers for damage and DDs for spotting damage. This would be a way to encourage pushing and moving the BBs closer in battle. As a single BB you cannot push (because of HE spam and focus fire) but when you have the backup of another BB and maybe a cruiser or a DD, than you can do it. As DDs can share smokes and spotting so can BBs share tanking. I think that by changing the reward system pushing might happen.
Reasons people’s don’t push in randoms
1.) they are scared to take damage
2.) they think if I do push will i people back me up or stay put....likely they will not follow even I say I’m pushing
3.) high explosive, high damage HE spam
4.) I’ll get focused and die for nothing
@@DrNauseous ive been in that situation so many times too :/ - Most annyoing thing for me is no one pushes even when we massively out number them. it could be 3 bbs, 2CA and a DD vs 1dd and 1CA and they will still stay put lol
Not to mention they 'kick the dead teammate corpse' by spewing insults as if they are playing the 'right' way. If cowardice is the right way, I'll stick with my 'wrong' way...
@@kaerukai1691 @Kaeru Kai feel the pain all the time in my pommern random battle. This is so common in NA server, people mocking pushing BB and sitting that for doing nothing. I am always curious htf a country with so many heroes fought in ww2 ends up like these users in this game.
they just need to implement a thing like : "BBs can only lose 50% of their base health to fire" and boom, people will push (broadside and getting citadelled, hence the boom)
Need map reworks to add more cover so people CAN push up
nah you just need team mates to follow the bb push, countless times i have pushed in a GK only to find the 4-5 ships that were behind me turned tail and ran when i started to get focused.
@@wulfthofengaming457 maybe make "signal" like: i will push come with me
And get a destroyer on the islands to get easy Torp kill
Nope, actually that game need some openwater maps. Because, more isles and covers = more hiding pots for dakka dds, he spammer cruisers.
One match the 2 cruisers, we just parked behind the 6 BBs. They were screaming at us get out and spot, we were nope. you move up.
I do this in a DD, particularly if it's American BB because they seem to attract the absolute laziest players.
It's also funny when it's a 2 CV per team match and the BB are spamming for Intel data and pinging whatever square I'm in.
@@Texas240 one match in Gearing I got past the DDs and unleashed holly hell on the BBs. I mean at 6.2 km twice nuking two BBs before they even guessed something was up. All 20 torps found homes between the pack of BBs. Moved away, and caught a DD moving back from radar.
The funniest moment i had in my bb was when i was playing slava and had a 1 crusier player yelling at me to push a cap with 3 shims in it and 2 kermlins i was like hell no not in a slava i wont plus then i cant hit anything worse then shotgun dispersion at close and and i have 0 armor and torp protect in slava
@@kuninagako9035 I was in a Oland, I think the tier 8 DD. It was on the map with the two cap points surrounded by islands. I got in there with a Neptune behind me supporting. The normal be in a tier 8 and get a tier 10 match. It was like I could not miss with the torps between the islands and at least two DDs just happened to get a torp or two. Then the DDs that came in had a higher detection and I used the neptune in smoke to spot. After 4 kills by me the other team said, it is sad, there is an oland in cap D with no smoke just bullying tier 10s. Sure I had help in the neptune to back me up, but I had radio detection and just was bullying the other ships Then the Yammy tried to bully me and got all my torps and a few from the Neptune, then we ran. After the other teams DD player commented, I typed in MINE! ONe thing knowing what ships you are fighting against is priceless. OR jsut prevents you from doing just dumb things. I had over 150 k damage with almost as much spotting damage.
So how long until people start to understand that deadeye was not the issue or cause of the meta, but merely the only solution battleships had to deal with the toxic he spam and torpedo meta?
How long?
The only time WG listened to it's customers is when their customer had no fucking clue what they where talking about.
Ridiculous
Exactly.
torpedo meta? wtf
@@rapkriticar3076 benham US DD stealing IJN gimmicks with torpedo fest, Sommers as well, Halland with hypersonic torpedo? 95 knot? 15 km range? Not torpedo fest enough for you? Tier 8 Harekaze, Asashio also have torpedo reload booster I think tier 7 you got Yudachi, without sonar you won't be able to dodge it or do something about it.
@@gkagara just dodge!
@@rapkriticar3076 Yes, this is coming from who exactly? a 1000 pr player?. Top dogs of this game have always been dds ever since the game was created, DDs always had twice as much battle infulence as BBs.
Over the time they have added more and more overtuned DDs like Benham, Halland, Marceau and many others that cripple BBs so hard, every fucking patch of this game since 2015 has been a shitting on a Battleship class, with no exception, only with the Dead Eye it was for the first time in 5 years that the WEEGEE added something that actually helped Battleships be less reliant on RNG and that their main thing, their main guns actually hit and good UNICUM bb players that can ACTUALLY AIM capitalized of it.
I like the skill, it made the game no worse than it is, because the battleships were never the reason for the state of the game, since they have by far THE LEAST battle influence.
the biggest problem is that you mix up to three tier ships against each other a bb tier 8 does not have a chance against a tier X dd or cruiser if it tries to make a push
You answered all your own questions :D The main problem is that players complain about not enough reward for pushing in, but they don't really know what reward they want at the same time. And probably there is no one single right answer too. A lot of videos talk about the problems of WOWS, but they don't offer any possible solution too. Because neither the devs or the players really know the best answer.
having switched from War Thunder to World of Warships just 2 Weeks ago i thank you for your videos, they helped me a lot to improve myself and to know what and how to do
If the Armor layouts are historic then maybe make the gun penetration over range realistic.
If every ship in the game had penetration curves like the do on Yorke
Then you allow for "zones of Immunity" to be a thing.
Which increases survivability across the board
And this is why I am becoming an Akizuki main.
Half the fire chance on BB's..... dpm monsters will still get fires, but now BB's won't take a much fire damage so they can push more
Battleships eventually start to move up when they see their destroyers chillin' near them in the back line. It's probably my most amusing gameplay when in DD.
I don't know if inting is really a solution.
Since the cruiser armor buff and overwhelming fire 🔥 power, BBs are afraid to push.
As dd main I still agree with you. I play all class ( not counting cvs as class in WOWS) and I find BBs most frustrating to play. I find myself raging all the time, because of overpen mechanic and fire chance of HE. Unfortunately telling the truth means no CC for you PQ. Still thanks for trying to make this game better.
This is part of why I enjoy playing the middle tiers; some of them just don't "know better" yet, and there aren't a whole lot of firehose cruisers and ultra-overmatch battleships rolling around.
One time I had closed to within 8 km of a Kremlin showing flat broadside because of a cyclone in my Conqueror, and after firing 2 AP salvos he still hadn't moved and no citadels cause I hit everything but his ship, and I got farmed to death from 3/4 health, really sucks sometimes being the most RNG reliant class in the game, wish they'd try to remedy that problem so skill gets rewarded and idiots get punished more consistently
I have felt that there is more team play in ranked battle these days since the rewards are based more on team wins. I find myself enjoying ranked battles more than randoms.
True. I had tons of fun in ranked probably because that mode seems fast paced and people actually push in.
I had a blast playing Georgia, Iowa, Cleveland, Roon, Hindenburg and Riga in ranked. Tons of fun. Random battles just feel slow. Like too slow...
I push in ranked do to support and less HE spam hell one of my games i pushed in a slava against a yamato not the best idea in a slava but still fun
They could remove literally every ship type in the game except battleships and they still wouldn't push up. Back in ye olde days of 2016 where they were literally half the queue and 5-6 battleships per team was the norm, they wouldn't push up. The only time I can remember that BBs tried this is following the release of German BBs, and a whole lot of focus fire quickly taught them that such aggression was usually rewarded with death.
Perhaps, but I really think battleships pushed up more in the past and were rewarded more for it. I may be remembering wrong as it's been a while. But back in the day zao was the only cruiser with 30mm (now the majority have 30mm armor), IFA/PT didn't exist and you had to take a skill to even see if you were detected. General DPM and range on cruisers/destroyers were far lower. I really do think it was much easier to push up and people got punished far harder when a battleship did get close back in 2015/2016
@@PotatoQuality There are also far more BBs these days with 430mm+ guns that can overmatch 30mm armor. This combined with deadeye means that the only way to stay alive in a cruiser is to either stay at max range 18+ km away or play an island hugger. BB accuracy is also far too high at long range. There is no incentive for BBs to push up if they can simply do the same amount of damage at 20km.
Goddammit, I have no idea why they are completely removing Dead Eye, when everything they had to do was just to reverse its activation logic...
You haven't thought that one through. If you were to reverse it all those potato BB players would drop concealment and still play the same way.
@@bernhardlangers778 still, they would have to stay within 15-18 km from the battle, not 20-25.
They should add a skill that for every secondary hit you get 0.01% faster cool down on your consumables
or When your BB is on cap- you get better secondaries. Or skill which will prioritze shoting weak aft/bow with seconadiers. Mybe skill which will let yyou longer reload of MB to secondaries ( Temporarly)
This isn't really any new realization, but it is something that many people haven't thought of, so it's great that someone who people listen to brings it up.
I had a hiatus from from the game from September to January, and upon coming back, I didn't really notice big difference in BB positioning. Yes, it is campy, but so was the September positioning. The game has been like this for a good while already, the commander rework just made a lot of people realize it.
You make a good point about increasing armor. It's the most benign thing you can do - no gun changes, no skill tweaks. Introduce tech tree upgrades (my word, even for tier 10!). Armor upgrade for a GK for instance, I could see players going for it.
Perhaps awarding XP for tanking damage might be a motivator for timid BBs. The more potential damage you rack up in a game, the more XP you get.
Not just BBs are tanking DMG. Its more about geting focused/harasing reds and surviving for more time, and thats posible with other clases
In all honesty what might fix the issue if HE received a universal nerf and a adjustment to fires, and if they add more effective survivability skills like perhaps a BB skill that takes 50% cooldown from your DCP if you have more ships in your base concealment range. AA is an issue to but the main cause is all the cruisers with stupid high dpm, stupid strong HE and fire chance, (some) can only be overmatched by 18" shells or higher, smoke, can hide behind islands, and has more than 19km of range. That is the main reason why BB's dont push. Ships like a well positioned Smolensk, Austin, Henry, minotaur, Hindenburg, ect. are really good at punishing a pushing bb.
I’ll keep pushing and half the time I’ll burn down and half the time I’ll be victorious!
And the other half you'll be torped!
Just be smart about it and it works just as well as any other tactic
Thanks for this video. Everything you said is spot on. No reason to push in random battles. Incentives are to pick of f ships around the map and stay out of range.
BBs weren't pushing before Dead Eye, and they won't push after it. It's like people completely forgot that this is the way it's been for years now, and for some reason they believe that removing Dead Eye will magically fix everything.
About that, what do you think wg could do to fix the problem, I would really like to see more ways to fix the game then just complaining.
@@osanixian1499Hello WG
@@rh906 i would like to work there lol
Even the existing fire reduction captain skills, combined with the flags, are severely insufficient to actually mitigate fire damage. I have all the survival talents on Nelson and it's barely manageable with its HUGE heal.
If it's just HE spam, it's fine. They're just charging up the heal. However, if a little AP (especially from another BB) or torpedoes (either DD or CV) get mixed in even that heal isn't enough to stand a chance against the fire, flooding, and impact damage.
It's actually the only BB I play, because it's fun. I also, slowly (25 kts top speed), push towards a cap. I usually let the team know that I'm lumbering in and ask them not to suicide before I get there.
Pushing in may not be the most sound strategy, but I'm playing the game to...wait for it...PLAY THE GAME, not just sit around hoping I get a firing solution on a long range target before half the team (and all the scouts) are dead.
Interestingly, when talk of deadeye being removed started, I'd seen several BB in different ranked matches talking about how they like ranked because it allows them to push more, actually play the game, and even run secondary builds because ranges close faster and the map isn't spammed with ships all in few hot spots of a random match.
I love how you keep spelling it out for the community and by extension WG. I respect your perseverance however its been the same since closed beta XD
But it is worse since the 10.0 rework, and keeps getting worse.
Step 1: Unnerf/buff secondaries back to or better than they used to be
Step 2: buff FP
Step 3: add more anti-HE skills (like, say, in place of SiS... why)/separate superstructure damage from HP damage after saturation
Step 4: hope the player base pushes because at the end of the day, they’re the problem.
There was issues with people not pushing in prior to dead eye. Pushing in and catching HE spam from 4 ships hiding behind islands and in smoke that aren't spotted while not having much in ability to maneuver makes you a free kill.
Not just HE spam but they don't want to catch a salvo of torpedoes fired from ships they can never see and cannot even try to take out without dying from massed torp spam.
@@johnfisher9692 True. If WG really wanted BBs to push, they would give all BBs radars.
It just isn't very feasible... there are way too many counters to BBs that you are taking such a massive risk every time you play aggresively.
There is SOOOO much HE, good torpedos everywhere, Italian cruisers with their smoke and SAP too, DDs are still a problem.
If your team doesn't push too then it is certain death; and the team rarely does. Tank builds and secondary / brawling builds just don't stand a chance anymore. Of course, there are other problems and a poorly designed skill rework...
I miss playing this game years ago when it wasn't saturated with obscene ships and this rework; it was much more enjoyable and balanced as well as more playstyles being viable.
I think only major secondaries buff would make BBs push. That would be their reward for pushing.
Still would not push too much HE and fires and unrelible ap
HE - Spam.
That is why BB's don't push.
Because if a BB pushes, he WILL be the only one of his ships doing so. And he will be focussed by the CV, the two Thunderers with HE loaded, A smolensk, A Des Moines, A Worcester and a Harugumo. Meanwhile he will be torped by Two Hallands also causing floodings.
Yup 99% of games are like that hell i had a game where all the bbs were thunder and all the crusiers were smol it was HE hellfire all game.
I love that you think about this game on a deeper level than most. "Why don't people push in?" I said out loud - "cus you get dead quick bro..." hahaha Keep up the great analysis my friend!
People blame Deadeye, but the real issue is secondaries being nerfed. If I had secondaries that were more than graphics glitz and could actually provide some defense, a 30 second main reload wouldn't mean instant death up close.
I think that the reward for BBs who get close is not consistent enough and that the expectency of damage also plays a role (hopefully that was somewhat correct english). I still remember that one time years ago, where i loaded up my Fuso and right at the start of the game, when the CV was spotting the first bbs, i launched my spotterplane and i just oneshot a New Mexico from max range. Things like that stick in your memory, when they happen. The closer you get, the more you expect your guns to be accurate enough to oneshot a ship. However as anybody, who has ever played a bb, knows that rng can completely screw you over in those brawling-situations. If you oneshot a guy at 5km you just think "my guns did, what they are supposed to do" and that doesn't stick in your mind. Allthough, what you will remember from your brawls, are all those times when you had the flat broadside of a ship and just get 5 overpens and a pen, because more and more ships get designed in a way that citadelling them is more of a rarity than a real weakness (see all the lowered citas on american bbs, smolensk, german bbs...)
I am really bad at this game. I almost quit until I was introduced to secondary battleships. This made all the difference. I am still bad, but in coop games I can push in with my bb. I am sure this would not work in random games, but bots don't seem to be as aggressive as real players.
cause they use full gas botton to cap, and thats all, they do nothing
lower that fire chance across the board?
The problem stems from HE being turned into budget gold ammo. It used to be only good for starting fires and doing damage to ships instead of overpens. With the introduction of IFHE and high alpha HE they reintroduced a broken mechanic that was removed in the CBT, spalling. It used to be that all shatters still did damage. Atlantas used to be able to reliably melt BBs.
With AP being the ammo of choice it was vital to try to get angles to exploit, requires movement. Sitting still made you vulnerable to torps from DDs and CVs and again being on the move was key(this was before the maneuverability nerf that, you used to be able to reliably dodge torps in BBs so their ruddershift times and time it took for the ship to turn were nerfed to make them easier to hit.) In short as long as you weren't sailing or sitting broadside you could recover from your mistakes.
Recovering from mistakes is the keypoint, players choose option that give them more options, at a certain point you can't turn around, you can't disengage in a BB it becomes do or die and that number tends to be around 14-12km. Once you go below 12km you cannot disengage, it is also the point were most torps in the game can reach you. With damage done being the primary mean to earn xp the obvious choice is to play for time because you can always do more damage.
Pushing up just doesn't pay like said, even if you push and get a good position your shells are now either deflected or swallowed by void armor for no damage. That is where the DPM game really shows it's ugly head. Imagine taking a justified risk, pushing, getting a broadside and surprise you get two overpens, a bounce and your one pen does no damage. 4kdamage, now wait 30 sec. In the meantime your facing a some kind of dakka machine that can do reliable 15k damage in that time, not even counting fires.
It's just safer and mathematically more practical to sail in the back.
This made me remember a colombo game i had: i got spotted by a DD, then got shot at by a conqueror and thunderer at 23km, it ended up with me losing 65k health in barely a minute or 2. Sure i coud've used my smoke, but.... since when is 23km away from the nearest enemy and heavily angled such a dangerous situation that you will end up dead even when trying to dodge all the HE being thrown at you??
Yes. I know that feel man. English bbs are pain in ass.
When i push in a BB i die 80% of the time, because in randoms you CAN NOT COUNT on your team. People use pushing BB-s as a free spot+distraction so they can farm dmg, not supporting him, just farming whatever they can shoot freely because the enemy focuses the BB. The problem is the matchmaking. It needs to be skill based. Like this, nothing will ever change, doesn't matter what skill they change.
Risk of taking damage and Reward for causing damage is tied to ship XP, Comm XP, free XP and credits awarded at end of game. Current rewards do not differentiate enough between damage taken and damage dished out from backline campers or front line pushers. Hence the current meta of backline campers using deadeye. To change behaviors, removing deadeye is a start but WeeGee also needs to reduce how much XP (Ship, Comm and Free) and credits is awarded to backline campers. In essence, they already have this in the Co-op game mode where playing against bots is awarded much less of everything than playing in randoms. Just my 2 cents.
Fix German Secondaries!!! I loved the feeling of pushing and getting into that sweet 8-10km range knowing that I was a true threat to any Cruisers or DD's thanks to my secondaries. Now they can just rapid fire me and set me on fire as I watch 1 out of 50 of my secondaries get a hit.
I love how everyone blamed deadeye as the only reason people didn't push, and now that it is going away, you all admit that deadeye had NOTHING to do with not pushing it. All it did was give better dispersion when at range. Here is one of those predictable "I told you so" moments.
Not like i used deadeye in any of my bbs anyway still wont stop me from siting in the back sniping and cross firing people in my slava. Till they rework HE and fires to be less punishing i wont be taking out any of my brawling bbs.
@@kuninagako9035 Agreed, or if they did more to encourage pushing as a group. Either make all captain skills only activate if you are more than 5 squares from the back and near at least 1 other friendly...;-)
@@stevepeterson6070 the other thing that would promote team play is assist ribbions like kill assist or support assist ribbons
And WG still refuse to give any BB good secondaries.
I think firing-range is one of the biggest factors.. In lower tiers, you can push, because you are simply out of range of over half of the opposition. At T10, that just isn't the case. You move forward and almost the entire opposition can focus you unless you're lucky to be on a map with a nice line of islands to cover from one side.
I learned the meta when I tried brawling in german bbs and getting cruisers and dds with 1 second reloads lighting me up, then going the american battleship line and getting citadels from 20-30km away
Everyone has to drink every time PQ says "Back in the day".
You're right.. Although I do think that deadye changes the 'perception'. In that without it, camping was generally considered bad play and called out. With it, the view is the opposite - that its ok to camp because you can still be effective. This perception is a big contributing factor impacting whether you get support or not when pushing (or whether you think you will get support). If you think you won't, you won't push.
Deadye changes mindset.. 'I'm a sniper now, so even if allies fo push, I'm staying here and sniping.
I’ve been saying it for a long time, dead eye isn’t the problem, the problem is HE spammers
So, how do you fight a BB in a cruiser?
@@jwolf6655 get your team to focus the BB down
And CVs,
@@wulfthofengaming457 OK, you remove fire spamming for cruisers from the game, the cruisers will never play again or will sit in the back by the BBs because this entire video talked about how randoms are not a team game.
@@jwolf6655 random public matches nobody is a team in any game. Problem with the game is it doesn't reward teamwork as much as it rewards damage. More damage you do the more XP and Money you make so everyone in random tries to get as much damage as they can to get good xp and money.
I used to play a game called "GUILD WARS". they had a mini map on which the team could create plans and give simple lines of attack without needing to have fast typing skills. WOW's encourages you to focus on the targets and not type long messages in chat (let alone deal with the "Trash talkers"). Perhaps looking at how teams can communicate better would be a help to overcome the sit at the back issue, and a lot of the time I will do that if I think I won't get support to move up. It needs a big change of something to alter this mindset within the game
I feel like I'm a dying breed then, all I do is push. Most of the times, I'm along and have to end up turning tail and kiting, but when my team follows, it's glorious!
Just last night I decided to push a cruiser and 2 BBs contesting a cap cuddling behind an island in my Pommern. To my surprise, a crusier and BB team mate followed close behind, it was an awesome brawl with secondaries going crazy. The match ended before the fight came to a resolution sadly....but we would have won :P
I 100% agree with your assessment.. its how I was starting to feel before the changes.. and it would be nice to see more people shooting at dds.. the team with them tend to win and the team without them tend to lose..
That was a good overview of the situation. BBs just don't benefit from closing range as much as the enemy benefits from the BB closing the range. Even on "brawler BBs" like the Russians or the Germans, it doesn't add that much to close the gap, especially with secondary nerfs.
I agree with you 💯%! WG must slow the power creep; That seems to just continue to increase exponentially from year to year. I just hope that they don't "F" the game up too much more than they already have.
Keep up the great work my man. Cheers!
I haven’t played that much in nearly two years, and I’m still cognizant of this issue; outranging the enemy doesn’t mean anything if you can’t spot them, don’t control the map/objectives, or work as a team.
I've maintained since the rework dropped that Deadeye and Top Grade Gunner got put onto the wrong ships. Maybe if battleships were able to do more damage for pushing in, they'd want to spend more time leading the charge.
I usually never push in unless I see at least 2 other larger ships on my side doing so, and even then I'll only follow if our flank has a distinct advantage, whether that be in numbers, average ship tier, or CV support if there is one.
And sometimes, even with all that in place, the push can still stall.
11:00 I disagree with what you’re saying here. Before WG introduced high-tier 457mm spam, most Tier X cruisers could at least bounce 406mm shells off their deck armor, and it wasn’t just Zao. Hindenburg, Henri, Yoshino, Des Moines etc. all have 30mm deck armor that gave them significantly better survivability than they have now. Only DM had the 27mm upper belt that made it vulnerable, and even this was later buffed to 30mm. Then WG unloaded Ohio, Thunderer, Georgia, Kremlin, etc. and just obliterated most cruisers’ ability to bounce shells.
They should give more xp for spotting damage, potential damage received and ribbons (and xp) for actuallt beeing set on fire.
So.. For a bb to make it more lucrative to axtually do tanking.
I can add why I don't push in a BB. I end up getting killed. So I stay back until the middle of the match then push in.
It's not just the HE spamming meta, its the fucking torpedo flood meta as well.
I swear that the introduction of halland (and smaland to a lesser extent) convinced the last aggressive BB players to just sit the fuck back and snipe.
When are you going to do another Map review. I really like those.
In my opinion, WG EXP rewarding system is also broken. You don't get to much EXP when you sacrifice for your team, but you get a lot even your team lose but survive till the end. Then the goal of random battle changed due to this system, everybody fight for their own, teammates are your potential enemies. Top right corner number is EVERYTHING you need in the random.
Have damage saturation for fires and have it so starting another fire dose not refresh the time untill the original fire is put out. This will make it so HE spam is not just a insta win v BB's
There is also a CV. Everybody hide back behind islands. As soon as you are spoted they fire on you.
It would be so easy to fix the problem. Perk: „the nearer you are at an objective, enemy etc. you get rewards X (more fireprevention %, more accurate/reload blabla)“. Or make secondaries playable again. Reward obj playing and not „the further you are the more accuracy or the longer you survive and get more xp“!
The main reason, why people don't push is the game design. In this game, players focus on targets, that are easy to kill and grant a lot damage. Even if a full team would push, there will be one target, that is the easiest to kill. And that will be focused.
So in a random match, as soon a person decides to push and "tank", he will be focused extremly heavy and die in a short time.
This becomes heavier, as soon you reach higher tiers, because then gun ranges are larger, thus enemies can shoot over the half map to hit a pushing ship
BBs rarely pushed before Deadeye, so it makes sense that they won't after the Deadeye changes. When the DPM of cruisers is so much higher than BBs, HE spam can keep them ablaze, and there are so many torpedoes in the water that a sailor could walk from one ship to another on top of them... brawling isn't so great. CVs only further complicate matters as BBs risk giving broadside when trying to dodge torpedo squadrons. I don't have all the answers, but the problems are pretty evident.
the game is designed in a way such that the kiting (defending) side can easily out trade the pushing (attacking) side. In this video, for example, a good henry IV player can easily out trade any pushing BB with rudder and throttle regardless of the skill level of the BB players.
As a BB player, what I do now is to reserve pushing. I still tank for my team, but I can disengage much quicker without giving broadside. The trade off is that I push slowly, but compare with not pushing at all, I think it's more supportive to my team.
One way to prevent this is to make every ship in this game with terrible back firing angle, i.e. if you want to fire all the guns while kiting away, you have to give broadside. (of course it will make open water cruiser much harder to play)
I think the best way to make BBs to push is to have the secondaries on manual control... No, not as int was in the past but with control as you have for your main guns or torps. Pretty much you have two sets of guns ones with long range and big alfa, and an other set with higher DPM, low alfa and shorter range... The secondaries can be balanced from ship to ship and this way 16'' BBS like Montana and GK can be made relevant again.... For instance Montana could have 7km range for its secondaries and can chose either HE or AP for their guns (just like for main guns). GK has 2 secondary types of 7Km and 9Km but have only HE and AP respectively which means that GK could burn and citadel a ship at the same time... The angles of the secondary guns can also be used for balancing since could force a player to either maintain angling to avoid taking damage but, in that case its secondary dpm will be shit or turn broad-side and risk getting sunk...
Manual secondaries could be implemented also for super-heavy cruisers (Alaska, Stalingrad) and heavy cruisers with secondaries higher than 100mm however the range of their secondaries should be quite low (no more than 6 Km). To balance this out all DDs should have torp reload time decrease by 10 to 15%. For BBs an upgrade module can be added which allows secondaries to be controlled together with the main guns (called something like "central fire control directory"), this could make BB's life much easier when in CQB however it could come at the cost of main gun accuracy...
That "Petro" 10:38 ..... 😀😂😎 This moment is priceless.
I think you're completely right. Intentional or not, it's the direction WG is going with the game (looking at new ships coming out, CV, subs etc)