Alash Orda was a Kazakh reformist movement and not represented Kyrgyz people (modern Kyrgyzstan). It is a common mistake because Russian ethnographers used to call modern Kazakhs as Kirgiz and modern Kyrgyz as a Kara Kirgiz or Black Kirgiz.
A small and interesting addition. At the initial stage of the war in Central Asia (1918-1919), thousands of German and Hungarian (but more Hungarians) POWs fought on the Bolsheviks side. There were large POW camps in Central Asia and Siberia. After the revolution, a significant part of them will support the Bolsheviks. In some battles, the share of Hungarians and Germans reached 40-70% of the Red troops.
at that time, the whole world was seething. In all countries of Europe, unrest began. Millions of victims on all sides stirred up the people. On both sides, the soldiers began to think: What are we fighting for? The Bolsheviks showed that on all sides only bankers, capitalists and nobles gained. Mostly ordinary people - simple professions-are dying. The agitation was a success.
@@tamlandipper29 -Hungarian internationalists in the October Revolution and the Civil War in the USSR. Collection of documents. 1968. -Ellis C. The Transcaspian Episode, 1918-1919. -Ivan Volgyes. Hungarian Prisoners of War in Russia 1916-1919
The victory of the Communists determined the development of Russia for seventy years and the development of the world for fifty years. So much for the niche.
Yea, I hadn't heard of a lot of this history. The episode begins with glossing over 270,000 people dying in a revolt over conscription and I had definitely never heard of that either.
As someone who’s family comes from this region but never really knew these things because we didn’t talk about it. However this really peaked my interest and I’m gonna go have a chat with my grandfather Thank you guys so much for bringing light to this topic!
@@ricardoxorge5157no i don't think so there were also "jadids" who want to educate people even they sent some central asian youngesters to study Germany and Turkey by the funds they established moreover they wanted to end the suburbia arround the country and modernize Turkestan (Central Asia) but unfortunately the soviests killed every student who studied in Europe after returning to Turkestan (even there were women) they burnt all the books they wrote closed all the modern schools if there was no Soviet Union jadids would be able to create Modern Turkestan
Thanks so much for doing this video! As an American with a slice of Kazakh in me, I've gotta say it's great to see some English videos about Turkestan!
Turkestan is a fragmented homeland. As a Turkmen, I want Turkestan to be united. I hope politicians give up their political interests. And we will not stay away from our Turkic brothers any longer.
@@Rvander77Turkmenistan is dictatorship while it alongside all of central Asia has had banned hijab and burqa wearing and only after certain laws that minor hijab was allowed to be weared
Can we just take a moment to appreciate the gorgeous colorized photos? Really brings this confusing time alive. Also when is someone going to make a movie about this?
The really impressive thing about this is that many of the photos, esp. in the first part of the video, are _not_ colourised. They are the work of Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky who experimented with colour photography very early on and travelled the Russian Empire extensively between 1909 and 1915, documenting life, landscape, and people of the Empire in actual colour photography.
There was a Russian woman adventurer/photographer who also documented Central Asia around this time period...I saw an excellent exhibition of her work in a museum in Karakol, but I don't remember her name.
The Russian Civil War is one of the most interesting periods in history. Battles were fought from the Baltic to the Pacific Ocean, from the Polar Ice to the deserts of Central Asia. The Wild East is much more interesting than the Wild West.
@C J that's the same word as the current name, just one transcribed into the Latin alphabet from Russian and the modern version transcribed from Kyrgyz. The city was named after a fortress around which the city grew that was created by the central Asian warlord the Khan of Kokand in 1825 but in European languages it was known through Russian sources. The fortress was destroyed when Russia turned the Khanate into a vassal state and later annexed it in the 1860's/1870's but the relatively young city remained and became more important than before when the Soviets made it capital of the Kyrgyz SSR - because it was new it was easier to fill with bureaucrats unlike traditional centres of power like Samarkand or Kokand. It was a military backwater in the Tsarist empire.
A Russian Civil war videogame would be simply amazing. Just imagine lots of armies, fronts, guns and different terrains... someone needs to make a SERIOUS game about it
Thank you Jesse Alexander and co for another fascinating documentary on post-Great War history. The level of scholarship, the use of archival footage and production values must surely be amongst the very best on and off RUclips.
A lot to say, mmm... This episode is eye-opening to me, coz I only read about Central Asia since the 1988 famous book of Samarkand by Amin Maalouf! I realize that the guerilla warfare or "bands" did not only exist in South Anatolia and northern Syria in 1920 but also in Central Asia; then I think that "excluding Muslims all together" (9:10) is a big, silly and terrible mistake; the "Jadid" movement is a very interesting socio-political phenomenon; Mikhaïl Frunze seems to be an outstanding general (but am I the only one to think that his name sounds German a little bit?); Enver Pasha refuses to die politically, so he goes to try his chance in another country; last, the colored photographs are simply stunning. A big bravo Jesse, Flo, and TGW crew!
Mikhail Frunze was of Romanian origin, but he was born in Central Asia. His father was a military paramedic in the Russian army. Paradoxically, Frunze had no military experience before the start of the civil war. He was engaged in revolutionary activities from 1905-1917.
To be more precise, Frunze's father was a Moldovan, Vasily Mikhailovich Frunze, para-medic (feldsher), who was in military service in Pishpek (old name of Bishkek, today's capital of Kyrgyzstan) and his mother was Russian, Marfa Efimovna Bochkarevskaya-Spasomiklaukhovskaya (or just Bochkarova). Mikhail Frunze was born in Bishkek, so after the civil war from 1926 until the collapse of the USSR in 1991, this city was named in his honor.
I was wondering why you have never mentioned Enver Pasha until the very last bit of the video. He ruled the Ottoman Empire in its last period and died in Central Asia fighting for a Turkic Revolution. Still a controversial and influential figure in modern Turkey.
You could have been a bit more clear re ethnics and language: Uzbek and Khazak, which are both in the Turkic family are 2 distinct language branches, therefore cannot be mutually understood. Tajik is Afghan Dari/Farsi (Iranian) while several 'East Iranian" languages are present that, being similar to Pustu, are not undersood by the former.
"and the only RUclips channel which is still kind of wondering what was going on in Central Asia". Actually I have some friends from Bukhara and Samarkand, and they don't seem to know either.
Yeeeah this is the stuff we’re all curious about. We all know the European part conflict but there are MILLIONS of Central Asians in the Soviet Union so far away from Moscow and more urban Slavic parts.
For the people who don't know what Jadid means it's an arab word that means New. Their name makes sense although they are Uzbek, maybe it's also mean the same thing in Uzbek, as I don't know this language.
Taking it from Wikipedia: They normally referred to themselves by the Turkic terms Taraqqiparvarlar ('progressives'), Ziyalilar ('intellectuals') or simply Yäşlär/Yoshlar ('youth'). Jadids were marked by their widespread use of print media in promoting their messages and advocacy of the usul ul-jadid[3] or "new method" of teaching in the maktabs of the empire, from which the term Jadidism is derived.
Anyway, many central asian intellectuals used this term for themselves to show that they are progressivists. at the same time CA traditionalists use term kadim/kadimists (ancient in arabic) refering to their old way views
10:43 'Trick or treat!' 'And who are you supposed to be?' 'I'm Isfandiyar the Emir of Khiva, and I've gone independent and unstable because of the collapse of the Russian Empire!' I need this to happen!
Cool video! The Russian Civil War is one of the most fascinating periods in history for me, particularly how it affected the various ethnic and national minorities inside the Russian Empire. I'm not hugely knowledgeable on the subject, but I always enjoy learning more about it!
Dude you rock!!! I love history and Jesse Alexander delivers. He's now my 3rd favorite after Lawrence Oliver who narrated World at Wsr in the early 80s and Keith David who played King in Platoon. He is also an awesome documentary narrator. You in great company
@@jessealexander2695 I am from Uzbekistan and must say you guys did amazing job and huge thanks. It's sad that our people don't their history very well, old generation grew up learning about how communism was great and was brainwashed and younger generation is growing up lots of ignorance and dumb nationalism. During those times there was no right side. Soviets killed many but helped to build what we have today. I'm glad that I'm living in country which isn't ruled by sharia law or some religious leaders. All thanks to Soviets even though I was never fan of communism or Soviet leadership
9:30 Alash Orda was only a Kazakh political movement. Kazakh people were called Kyrghyz or Kyrgyz-Kaisaks by Russian colonialism and modern Kyrghyz were called Kara-Kyrgyz (Black Kyrgyz). We're different, but very close nations.
Great episode, I heard your podcast interview about this topic too. If possible, it would be nice if some descriptions or references can be added to the pictures as you did in previous videos. Great work !
I should metion about Mirsaid Sultan-Galiyev (1892-1940). His claim was Red army purposly didnt crash Basmachi revolt because blaming somebody as Basmachi was easiest way to eliminate Muslim or Turkic rooted Soviet Politicians. In Turkish language his all writings and memoirs published as a collection but i dont know its avaible in other languages too (ISBN: 9789756288795 ). In there youll can read his hopes about revoliton as a socialist turnet to a growing fear to elimination of all non-slav politicians from Soviet System. In his memories he mentions about "soviets calling muslim forces when a rebellion or clash happens but when taking any political decition they are forgetting our presence" (Galiyev himself was an atheist but he thinked Islamic-Socialist rethoric have a potential for socialist revolutions in colonies of europian powers). He was a very influencial Tatar Communist (possibly most influencial Muslim / Turkic person in Soviets in his time, some people claming he was the 4rth most powerful person in USSR after Trotsky) who had very interesting ideas. He was defended old Imperial powers of europe never be true socialists and we will never see a socialist state or revolution in industrilized europe. Also Russians are old opressors and a system builded by them only will repeat history. He prophesies all socialist revolutions of future will be happen in colonized terratories of Asia and Africa . Real class struggle is between imperial nations and colony nations because for example British Workers have economic benefits from British presence in India. He was also strongly opposed divided Turkestan and yelled to Stalin in an congress as "Please dont mess with destinies of nations comrade Stalin". His biggest fear was a Stalinist regime and when it happen he sented a camp and eventurally killed with most of his comrades. We can describe His dreams as an kind a independent "United Soviet Socialist Turan Republic" and "International of Colonized or Opressed Peoples". For this aspect i thing its very similar to Tito's 3rd World and Arab Baathist ideology
Lmao no Galiyev was never the 4th most powerful person in the Soviet Union. He wasn't even a Central Committee member much less a People's Commissar or a Politburo member.
Gentlemen, I think this topic deserves a continuation. For instance, what about the Baku congress? I think you might have some things to say about it. Cheers.
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12:35 the Emir of Bukhara was a monster. Given the events, the Bolsheviks were the best option. The only party that actually incorporated everyone. The Jadids lost the struggle to control it, but didn't get all slaughtered the way the other groups settled things. Mikhail Frunze seems like a much wiser leader than anyone else available. His reconciliation with the Jadids speaks to that. Bukhara was an architectural wonder, it was a shame to do so much damage to it.
No, bolsheviks did not include everyone: they killed 10% of every occupied peoples educated elite and confiscated land from the peasants and deported them to Siberia.
Well, speaking from Textbooks, Emir was first supported by Jadids for his revolutionary steps in the country and when Jadids made a meeting in support of that, Emir will see it as a revolt without really knowing and this is how the conflict arises between them. Emir says in his diary he tried to save the country and develop it but had no chance given the circumstances and explains his situation. Mikhail Frunze only did this in order to capture Turkestan, Jadids were still treated harshly by Soviet government which is technically Russian government. He didn't speak about the places how Soveit Union was for us and if he did, I bet anyone would be praying to have an Emir back even with worse conditions ...
The conclusion of this complicated struggle finally ends. With one final epilogue (Kronstadt Mutiny), Bolsheviks had just proved that revolutions end where they begin. Same despots in charge, with a butcher's bill that will fill a small lake with blood.
@Red Baron Then make another abusive despots in it's place? At what cost that the notion of Marxist "progress" comes at? Their framework is pretty much were based off Capitalism of American industrialism but with the naivety that they'll not fall into the same holes as American Capitalism, in fact USSR and the splitting "non-revisionist" Marxist states are either falling down or adapt to camouflage themselves with even more horrifying Capitalist system to keep their machines going akin to how post-Dengist PRC ended up "When you replace a backwards authoritarian monarchy, you have to build a strong state to protect it. It is what it is." Sounds like what Neocons and Neoliberals argued when trying to invade MENA region or even beforehand with colonising said regions from the (relatively) more stable Ottoman times, not to mention we're not even talking of the aftermath effects of Soviet's industrial legacies in post-Soviet Central Asian countries
I wished I could have watched this video before my travel in Central Asia in 2012: I did read some History about it, but informations weren't readily available or in depth in such a still little-known region of the world. Thanks for your invaluable work!
"A general from Turkey has arrived to help." Me: "Nice of Attaturk to help out his fellows" "It's Enver Pasha" Me: "Nice of Attaturk to help the Bolsheviks"
@@bekzodismoilov281 thanks to Russia for civilizing you guys It was Russia who made so called Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan
@@igorsmirnoff7640Если в России 7млн узбеков,получается узбеков по всей стране около 100млн наберется😂,хотя статистика говорит,что там всего 1млн узбеков как и ваших свиней у нас
Your corrupt leaders like Stalin, Lenin , Gorbachev ruined the country’s economy. They have cut off all independent businesses instead they made the country depend on cotton . Because Soviet leaders were all uneducated factory workers.
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I am Uzbek. My grandparents are Jadids. They tried to save Central Asia from slavery and ignorance. They are among the people of Paradise if Allah wills.
@@Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh29 Hozirgi Markaziy Osiyo davlatlarini yaratganlar Ruslar edi Ular Markaziy Osiyoga sanoatlashtirish va zamonaviy narsalarni olib kelishdi Ulardan oldin siz turkiylar ko'chmanchi qabila xalqi bo'lgansiz
@@yo-gz8rv to'g'ri qadimgi turkiy xalqlar ya'ni saklar massagetlar hunlar yuechilar(kushon podsholigiga asos solgan qabilalar) va ilk o'rta asrlardagi turkiy xalqlar ya'ni toxarlar eftallar ko'kturklar dastlab ko'chmanchi hayot tarziga ega bo'lgan ovchi va jangchi xalq bo'lgan lekin turkiylar xalqlar aynan ruslar sababli o'troqlashmagan bunga sabab sug'diylar va baqtiriyaliklar kabi xalqlar bilan kechgan madaniy aloqalar sabab bo'lgan turklar sharqda Oxoto va Yapon dengizidan g'arbda markaziy Yevropagacha bo'lgan hududlarda hukmronlik qilgan davrlarda slavyan xalqlari hali ham 3 gruhga bo'linib yashashardi (g'arbiy janubiy va sharqiy(ruslar shu guruhga mansub)) Keyinchalik Kiyev Rusi davlatining asosiy raqiblaridan biri ham qipchoqlar bo'lishgan ular qipchoqlarga soliq to'lashgan bundan tashqari Amur Temur rus yerlariga borganda xalqni xarob ahvolini ko'rib ulardan soliq olmagan (buni hatto bazi rus tarixchilari ham tan oladi) chunki u davrda rus knyazliklari juda tarqoq holda bo'lib xalq qiyinchilikda hayot kechirganlar hali ruslar ko'z ilg'amas kuch ega bo'lar ekan bizni tirk ajdodlarimiz dunyoni xon-u amirlari bo'lgan shu bilan ham aynan ruslar turklarni madaniylashtirdi o'troqlashtirdi deyishlik qanchalik to'g'ri
@@yo-gz8rvwere Uzbeks nomads at that time? of course not, we had 3 khanates and everywhere had its own architecture and lived a sedentary lifestyle, but the betrayal of other peoples took away large territories from us.And I hope you understand that even now Central Asia is not developing because of the intervention of Russia and China
Amazing that the Bolsheviks managed to pacify and consolidate the Soviet Union the way they did considering the various ideologies and ethnicities they had to contend with. Absolutely remarkable.
Maybe, that’s why they gained such a hard attitude in terms of governing. Secret police all around, when you take away that oppression the Soviet Union collapsed as ethnic groups chose to move away.
A pity that the Brits, Japanese, and Americans didn't hang around to help the locals and the White Russians to totally crush the budding Communist regimes. Life might be a lot better in this current day and age. I love these videos. Things like this were lightly touched on in world history, but never in depth, even back in schools in the 60s and 70s. More the pity. Major kudos to The Great War!!!
Weirdly enough central Asia developed most under Soviet rule plus central Asia is very much secular today compared to then you have women wearing shorts watching their cousins in Afghanistan see the effects of anti-communism
You can guestimate the size of the conflict by the time the modern train crosses the territory. It takes 3.5 days from the city of Dushanbe (modern capital of Tajikistan, mentioned in this video) to reach the Volga river (nowadays Russian territory). After that it is only one day travel to Moskow. The land was scarcely populated, but the civil war toll was high, as almost 50% of population had perished. A person, whose father fought alongside with Frunze on the Soviets side, once described it as a bloody bath: "(we) simply wiped out entire villages including wimen and children, to cut support and supply to the basmachi guerillas". It is estimated that the civil war took lives of 2 mil of kazakh alone. On the other hand, without the Soviets invasion, the Central Asia would likely to remain nomadic, similar to a nowadays Afghanistan (which was then also partly a Bukhara emirate).
This subject is mentioned briefly in the movie REDS. John Reeds character is mad that the Soviet leaders are changing his speeches from those about class consciousness and the proletarian vanguard to Islamic fundamentalism
Actually, up to 1929 all of that land was called a Soviet Kyrgyz Republic with the capital in Orenbug (!), with entire population being historically referred to as "kyrgyz".
@@odissey2: At the time, Kyrgyzstan was referred to as "Kara-Kyrgyz," or Black Kyrgyz, and they are a bit darker, but in Turkish languages both Ak and Kara (White and Black), like the White (Mediterranean) and Black seas have associations as just meaning "great," with white being more like "holy, glorious, light," and I think black is more like "formidable, strong."
You simply could not help us, because Ataturk asked Lenin for help. He provided you with weapons and supplies. How could you fight against a country that helps you?
It's a full, total and absolute chaos. And then they wonder, "Hey, why in late 20th century, situation erupted?" The conflict never ended, it simply went underground for a time. Also, quite astoundig colorized pics.
The photos actually were originally color. They were taken by simultaneously exposing three negatives (sort of RGB color) by Russian photographer Prokudin-Gorsky. The negatives vere later acquired by the US library of Congress from his sons.
@@adamradziwill liar. My grand parents from fathers side were living in Kyrgizia. Bringing nothing but infrastructure, industrialization and education for the children of nomads. My grandfather was an engineer and my grandmother was a geography teacher.
@@dragosstanciu9866 1920-35 years russian Soviets shot kazakhs and did holodomor. looks like genocide nation, kazakhs for 9 years old (starting out with 1923, ending 1933) 3.000.000 kazakhs dead, during russian empire kazakhs was 6.000.000 population, and decreased 3.000.000 pop in 1935.
" events in the region are very messy"
Why yes, that's why I am here
🤔🤥😑🤥🤔
Hmmm not sure whether you caused it, going to cure it, or just lead it to heresy. Best go grab GirlyMan
@@Doomrider47 I caused it and cured it and nobody knew. including me
Alash Orda was a Kazakh reformist movement and not represented Kyrgyz people (modern Kyrgyzstan). It is a common mistake because Russian ethnographers used to call modern Kazakhs as Kirgiz and modern Kyrgyz as a Kara Kirgiz or Black Kirgiz.
War Elephants vs Armoured Trains! I now want to play a game with that scenario.
Me too, gotta be a mod for something!
I would play as well
Warhammer 2 would be the closest. Empire has train like machines, notska has elephants.
You are not allone, Brother
sid mieres civilaziton
A small and interesting addition. At the initial stage of the war in Central Asia (1918-1919), thousands of German and Hungarian (but more Hungarians) POWs fought on the Bolsheviks side. There were large POW camps in Central Asia and Siberia. After the revolution, a significant part of them will support the Bolsheviks. In some battles, the share of Hungarians and Germans reached 40-70% of the Red troops.
Question is why they support their enemies?
@@mojewjewjew4420 the bolsheviks weren't their enemies at this point, but imperial russia. So they had a common enemy.
at that time, the whole world was seething. In all countries of Europe, unrest began. Millions of victims on all sides stirred up the people. On both sides, the soldiers began to think: What are we fighting for? The Bolsheviks showed that on all sides only bankers, capitalists and nobles gained. Mostly ordinary people - simple professions-are dying. The agitation was a success.
Sources?
@@tamlandipper29
-Hungarian internationalists in the October Revolution and the Civil War in the USSR. Collection of documents. 1968.
-Ellis C. The Transcaspian Episode, 1918-1919.
-Ivan Volgyes. Hungarian Prisoners of War in Russia 1916-1919
Enver Pasha returning to the scene is like something taken from a movie script. :-)
Enver Pasha cameo
Greetings from Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan, Central Asia!
You guys really like to overthrow your presidents son't you?
you from taskent soviet ?
aka Frunze
@@mixererunio1757 yep, we are.
Hello Turkic brother! I am Kazakh and Italian!
I find Central Asia intriguing especially at that time. I respect the job you did to unravel the knots so well.
The topics you have covered since the end of the great war are already pretty niche. This is now a niche within a niche. I love you guys for that!
The victory of the Communists determined the development of Russia for seventy years and the development of the world for fifty years. So much for the niche.
Yea, I hadn't heard of a lot of this history. The episode begins with glossing over 270,000 people dying in a revolt over conscription and I had definitely never heard of that either.
Big fighter Enver pasha has arrived the area in last seconds...
As someone who’s family comes from this region but never really knew these things because we didn’t talk about it. However this really peaked my interest and I’m gonna go have a chat with my grandfather
Thank you guys so much for bringing light to this topic!
Glad to have inspired some interest in family history, it's important for all of us!
Goloschkina, is great place to start. The Kazakh genocide.
We've been under foreign rule for centuries, no wonder our history was being erased
That should be an interesting chat.
Probably my favorite episode on the channel as of now, had no idea these players in the region even existed. Love learning this stuff
Happy to hear it!
I am a Muslim uzbek my grand grandfather faught against Soviets Communists as a Mujahid ( Basmachi is created by Russians means occupying movement).
Басмачи без башмаков 😁
Without the USSR Uzbekistan would have been like Afghanistan in terms of development 😅😅😅
@@ricardoxorge5157Are you Uzbek
@@ricardoxorge5157no i don't think so there were also "jadids" who want to educate people even they sent some central asian youngesters to study Germany and Turkey by the funds they established moreover they wanted to end the suburbia arround the country and modernize Turkestan (Central Asia) but unfortunately the soviests killed every student who studied in Europe after returning to Turkestan (even there were women) they burnt all the books they wrote closed all the modern schools if there was no Soviet Union jadids would be able to create Modern Turkestan
Are there any movies about the basmachi besides White Sun of the Desert?
The best part is to see the Aral Sea in its former greater shape on the map :D
"They mostly fought on horseback..." * picture of someone on a camel *
Great video, but that moment made me laugh 😂
Thanks so much for doing this video! As an American with a slice of Kazakh in me, I've gotta say it's great to see some English videos about Turkestan!
Greetings to you from the Kyrgyz Land my brother, as we say in here - "Kazakh-Kyrgryz bir tugan"🇰🇬🇰🇿
Turkestan will rise again uniting all Central Asian Republics in a peaceful re-unification
Turkestan is a fragmented homeland. As a Turkmen, I want Turkestan to be united. I hope politicians give up their political interests. And we will not stay away from our Turkic brothers any longer.
@@Rvander77 If only, our politicians are too busy being corrupt beyond belief and having personality cults around themselves.
@@Rvander77Turkmenistan is dictatorship while it alongside all of central Asia has had banned hijab and burqa wearing and only after certain laws that minor hijab was allowed to be weared
A fellow Kazakh here, great video on a forgotten topic!
Can we just take a moment to appreciate the gorgeous colorized photos? Really brings this confusing time alive. Also when is someone going to make a movie about this?
The really impressive thing about this is that many of the photos, esp. in the first part of the video, are _not_ colourised.
They are the work of Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky who experimented with colour photography very early on and travelled the Russian Empire extensively between 1909 and 1915, documenting life, landscape, and people of the Empire in actual colour photography.
I think there is a Soviet movie called “White Sun of the Desert”
There was a Russian woman adventurer/photographer who also documented Central Asia around this time period...I saw an excellent exhibition of her work in a museum in Karakol, but I don't remember her name.
The Russian Civil War is one of the most interesting periods in history. Battles were fought from the Baltic to the Pacific Ocean, from the Polar Ice to the deserts of Central Asia. The Wild East is much more interesting than the Wild West.
Well uh do u have injuns ere in the east
The modern capital of Kyrgyzstan Bishkek was known as Frunze under Soviet rule.
@C J that's the same word as the current name, just one transcribed into the Latin alphabet from Russian and the modern version transcribed from Kyrgyz. The city was named after a fortress around which the city grew that was created by the central Asian warlord the Khan of Kokand in 1825 but in European languages it was known through Russian sources. The fortress was destroyed when Russia turned the Khanate into a vassal state and later annexed it in the 1860's/1870's but the relatively young city remained and became more important than before when the Soviets made it capital of the Kyrgyz SSR - because it was new it was easier to fill with bureaucrats unlike traditional centres of power like Samarkand or Kokand. It was a military backwater in the Tsarist empire.
I am always amazed at how insurgent warfare crops up endlessly and it is always treated as new and unexpected.
A Russian Civil war videogame would be simply amazing. Just imagine lots of armies, fronts, guns and different terrains... someone needs to make a SERIOUS game about it
It wont be since westerners dont like russians.
It does exist. It's called Revolution Under Siege, by AGEOD, and it's as messy as you can imagine, and it includes Central Asia.
@@blede8649 props to you, but AGEOD games are just too much for me, this is coming from a seasoned paradox player.
Ok, the Last train home is just out, it's about Czechoslovak legion trying to go home. Looks quite promising.
Thank you Jesse Alexander and co for another fascinating documentary on post-Great War history. The level of scholarship, the use of archival footage and production values must surely be amongst the very best on and off RUclips.
Thanks!
A lot to say, mmm... This episode is eye-opening to me, coz I only read about Central Asia since the 1988 famous book of Samarkand by Amin Maalouf! I realize that the guerilla warfare or "bands" did not only exist in South Anatolia and northern Syria in 1920 but also in Central Asia; then I think that "excluding Muslims all together" (9:10) is a big, silly and terrible mistake; the "Jadid" movement is a very interesting socio-political phenomenon; Mikhaïl Frunze seems to be an outstanding general (but am I the only one to think that his name sounds German a little bit?); Enver Pasha refuses to die politically, so he goes to try his chance in another country; last, the colored photographs are simply stunning. A big bravo Jesse, Flo, and TGW crew!
Mikhail Frunze was of Romanian origin, but he was born in Central Asia. His father was a military paramedic in the Russian army. Paradoxically, Frunze had no military experience before the start of the civil war. He was engaged in revolutionary activities from 1905-1917.
@@jangrosek4334 I always assumed he is Georgian, because of the surname Fru-NZE, the more you know.
@@jangrosek4334 Thank you for the clarification
To be more precise, Frunze's father was a Moldovan, Vasily Mikhailovich Frunze, para-medic (feldsher), who was in military service in Pishpek (old name of Bishkek, today's capital of Kyrgyzstan) and his mother was Russian, Marfa Efimovna Bochkarevskaya-Spasomiklaukhovskaya (or just Bochkarova). Mikhail Frunze was born in Bishkek, so after the civil war from 1926 until the collapse of the USSR in 1991, this city was named in his honor.
@Jim lastname Nope, Frunze is a russianised derivation of "frunză ['frun.zə]" (leaf).
I was wondering why you have never mentioned Enver Pasha until the very last bit of the video. He ruled the Ottoman Empire in its last period and died in Central Asia fighting for a Turkic Revolution. Still a controversial and influential figure in modern Turkey.
@@adamradziwill I'm sure they will. It's a bit outsid5the scope of this episode
Thought the same thing he was clearly the leader of the Basmaci
You could have been a bit more clear re ethnics and language: Uzbek and Khazak, which are both in the Turkic family are 2 distinct language branches, therefore cannot be mutually understood.
Tajik is Afghan Dari/Farsi (Iranian) while several 'East Iranian" languages are present that, being similar to Pustu, are not undersood by the former.
Jessy Alexander, I believe this is the only video on the subject! Congrats!
Also, 16 days in Berlin, is awesome. GG ;-)
Thank you!
Thanks for story about central asia, from 🇰🇿
"and the only RUclips channel which is still kind of wondering what was going on in Central Asia".
Actually I have some friends from Bukhara and Samarkand, and they don't seem to know either.
Yeeeah this is the stuff we’re all curious about. We all know the European part conflict but there are MILLIONS of Central Asians in the Soviet Union so far away from Moscow and more urban Slavic parts.
For the people who don't know what Jadid means it's an arab word that means New.
Their name makes sense although they are Uzbek, maybe it's also mean the same thing in Uzbek, as I don't know this language.
@@triersero2763 так до крымских татар в Крыму жили греки, половцы, печенеги, хазары и тд.? Куда крымские татары дели греков, хазар и остальных???
Крым раньше был греческим, греческие Крымчане ГДЕ???
Taking it from Wikipedia:
They normally referred to themselves by the Turkic terms Taraqqiparvarlar ('progressives'), Ziyalilar ('intellectuals') or simply Yäşlär/Yoshlar ('youth'). Jadids were marked by their widespread use of print media in promoting their messages and advocacy of the usul ul-jadid[3] or "new method" of teaching in the maktabs of the empire, from which the term Jadidism is derived.
Anyway, many central asian intellectuals used this term for themselves to show that they are progressivists. at the same time CA traditionalists use term kadim/kadimists (ancient in arabic) refering to their old way views
@@user-tn2wp6fy9z в Крыме жили кыпчаки, крымские греки наху утопились в Грецию
The sight of Enver Pasha blew my mind!
10:43 'Trick or treat!'
'And who are you supposed to be?'
'I'm Isfandiyar the Emir of Khiva, and I've gone independent and unstable because of the collapse of the Russian Empire!'
I need this to happen!
OK have an apple
I really wanted to see something about this theme, thank you Jesse and crew
Cool video! The Russian Civil War is one of the most fascinating periods in history for me, particularly how it affected the various ethnic and national minorities inside the Russian Empire. I'm not hugely knowledgeable on the subject, but I always enjoy learning more about it!
Turkish people never left alone other turkic brothers! Even in our hardest times our great generals fight and die for great turkestan!
Dude you rock!!! I love history and Jesse Alexander delivers. He's now my 3rd favorite after Lawrence Oliver who narrated World at Wsr in the early 80s and Keith David who played King in Platoon. He is also an awesome documentary narrator. You in great company
Fascinating. I must say I knew absolutely nothing about all this, that is very interesting. Thank you for this great video.
🇺🇿 🇺🇿🇺🇿let’s go Uzbeks, and yes we are turkic, not Persian. We have proud past with amazing scholars and successful rulers. That’s the only truth
Central asia was never an interest of min until now
Glad to hear it!
@@jessealexander2695 I am from Uzbekistan and must say you guys did amazing job and huge thanks. It's sad that our people don't their history very well, old generation grew up learning about how communism was great and was brainwashed and younger generation is growing up lots of ignorance and dumb nationalism. During those times there was no right side. Soviets killed many but helped to build what we have today. I'm glad that I'm living in country which isn't ruled by sharia law or some religious leaders. All thanks to Soviets even though I was never fan of communism or Soviet leadership
I prefer this setup. Your videos are improving. Keep going keep grinding
9:30 Alash Orda was only a Kazakh political movement. Kazakh people were called Kyrghyz or Kyrgyz-Kaisaks by Russian colonialism and modern Kyrghyz were called Kara-Kyrgyz (Black Kyrgyz). We're different, but very close nations.
Wieder mal ein Teil der Weltgeschichte, der mir bis dato vollständig unbekannt war. Vielen Dank!
4:54 That is one odd looking horse.
@xeepromx Designed by a soviet. A soviet horse.
Great episode, I heard your podcast interview about this topic too. If possible, it would be nice if some descriptions or references can be added to the pictures as you did in previous videos. Great work !
I should metion about Mirsaid Sultan-Galiyev (1892-1940). His claim was Red army purposly didnt crash Basmachi revolt because blaming somebody as Basmachi was easiest way to eliminate Muslim or Turkic rooted Soviet Politicians. In Turkish language his all writings and memoirs published as a collection but i dont know its avaible in other languages too (ISBN: 9789756288795 ). In there youll can read his hopes about revoliton as a socialist turnet to a growing fear to elimination of all non-slav politicians from Soviet System. In his memories he mentions about "soviets calling muslim forces when a rebellion or clash happens but when taking any political decition they are forgetting our presence" (Galiyev himself was an atheist but he thinked Islamic-Socialist rethoric have a potential for socialist revolutions in colonies of europian powers). He was a very influencial Tatar Communist (possibly most influencial Muslim / Turkic person in Soviets in his time, some people claming he was the 4rth most powerful person in USSR after Trotsky) who had very interesting ideas.
He was defended old Imperial powers of europe never be true socialists and we will never see a socialist state or revolution in industrilized europe. Also Russians are old opressors and a system builded by them only will repeat history. He prophesies all socialist revolutions of future will be happen in colonized terratories of Asia and Africa . Real class struggle is between imperial nations and colony nations because for example British Workers have economic benefits from British presence in India. He was also strongly opposed divided Turkestan and yelled to Stalin in an congress as "Please dont mess with destinies of nations comrade Stalin". His biggest fear was a Stalinist regime and when it happen he sented a camp and eventurally killed with most of his comrades. We can describe His dreams as an kind a independent "United Soviet Socialist Turan Republic" and "International of Colonized or Opressed Peoples". For this aspect i thing its very similar to Tito's 3rd World and Arab Baathist ideology
Baesd Turan GANG :DDDDDDDDDD
Lmao no Galiyev was never the 4th most powerful person in the Soviet Union. He wasn't even a Central Committee member much less a People's Commissar or a Politburo member.
yes you are talking about a very topical issue !!!
from Uzbekistan
Gentlemen, I think this topic deserves a continuation. For instance, what about the Baku congress? I think you might have some things to say about it. Cheers.
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Nice
I used the link and signed up for CuriosityStream, I don’t have access to nebula, why is that?
I liked the Sergey Prokudin-Gorsky color photographs.
"He is not a Jadid"
"THEN YOU ARE GUILTY TOO, DIE!!!!!!!"
That sentiment is being practiced in the streets of today.
@@buttersurge8047 You should receive a separate email to sign up for Nebula.
12:35 the Emir of Bukhara was a monster.
Given the events, the Bolsheviks were the best option. The only party that actually incorporated everyone. The Jadids lost the struggle to control it, but didn't get all slaughtered the way the other groups settled things.
Mikhail Frunze seems like a much wiser leader than anyone else available. His reconciliation with the Jadids speaks to that.
Bukhara was an architectural wonder, it was a shame to do so much damage to it.
No, bolsheviks did not include everyone: they killed 10% of every occupied peoples educated elite and confiscated land from the peasants and deported them to Siberia.
Well, speaking from Textbooks, Emir was first supported by Jadids for his revolutionary steps in the country and when Jadids made a meeting in support of that, Emir will see it as a revolt without really knowing and this is how the conflict arises between them. Emir says in his diary he tried to save the country and develop it but had no chance given the circumstances and explains his situation.
Mikhail Frunze only did this in order to capture Turkestan, Jadids were still treated harshly by Soviet government which is technically Russian government.
He didn't speak about the places how Soveit Union was for us and if he did, I bet anyone would be praying to have an Emir back even with worse conditions ...
Genuinely, Curiosity stream is wonderful.
Indy made The Great War channel my favourite and Jesse keeps me here.
Love this series prob the most comprehensive English language documentary on the Russian civil war!
I can't think to a time other than being a small child, when I have been so interested in a topic I have near-zero familiarity with. Kudos to you!
Thanks!
@@jessealexander2695 I'm honoured.
The conclusion of this complicated struggle finally ends. With one final epilogue (Kronstadt Mutiny), Bolsheviks had just proved that revolutions end where they begin. Same despots in charge, with a butcher's bill that will fill a small lake with blood.
@Red Baron Then make another abusive despots in it's place? At what cost that the notion of Marxist "progress" comes at? Their framework is pretty much were based off Capitalism of American industrialism but with the naivety that they'll not fall into the same holes as American Capitalism, in fact USSR and the splitting "non-revisionist" Marxist states are either falling down or adapt to camouflage themselves with even more horrifying Capitalist system to keep their machines going akin to how post-Dengist PRC ended up
"When you replace a backwards authoritarian monarchy, you have to build a strong state to protect it. It is what it is."
Sounds like what Neocons and Neoliberals argued when trying to invade MENA region or even beforehand with colonising said regions from the (relatively) more stable Ottoman times, not to mention we're not even talking of the aftermath effects of Soviet's industrial legacies in post-Soviet Central Asian countries
@@ohamatchhams Bolsheviks bring much of a progress and modernity anyhow, Russian Impire was much worse place than the Union
Erm, that's a camel, not a horse
I wished I could have watched this video before my travel in Central Asia in 2012: I did read some History about it, but informations weren't readily available or in depth in such a still little-known region of the world. Thanks for your invaluable work!
"A general from Turkey has arrived to help."
Me: "Nice of Attaturk to help out his fellows"
"It's Enver Pasha"
Me: "Nice of Attaturk to help the Bolsheviks"
Его можно понять, хотя я не одобряю его временный союз
Note: Khanate of Khiva was ruled by Khans until the end times. Not by emirs neither it was an emirate. Only Bukhara was under the rule of Emir.
I can recommend "Setting the East Ablaze" by P. Hopkirk. British view of the period in Central Asia.
Thank you so much for your work! Great episode!
great stuff as always guys
So little is known generally about the aftermath of the great war. Not only is it fascinating, but essential to understand the modern world
Basmachi and Jadids are our heros 🇺🇿
7 million Uzbeks who working in Russia thinking in other way as they say
@@igorsmirnoff7640 at least they are working not stealing like your ancestors our wealth.
@@bekzodismoilov281 thanks to Russia for civilizing you guys
It was Russia who made so called Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan
@@igorsmirnoff7640Если в России 7млн узбеков,получается узбеков по всей стране около 100млн наберется😂,хотя статистика говорит,что там всего 1млн узбеков как и ваших свиней у нас
Your corrupt leaders like Stalin, Lenin , Gorbachev ruined the country’s economy. They have cut off all independent businesses instead they made the country depend on cotton . Because Soviet leaders were all uneducated factory workers.
Stalin made this region a ghost town...it lasted until th 80's
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I am Uzbek. My grandparents are Jadids. They tried to save Central Asia from slavery and ignorance. They are among the people of Paradise if Allah wills.
Turklarni sivilizatsiya qilgan Rossiyaga rahmat
@@yo-gz8rvqaniydi Rossiya bòlmaganida biz Yevropadek bòlarmidik òzi videodagi malumotlarni tushundizmi
@@Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh29 Hozirgi Markaziy Osiyo davlatlarini yaratganlar Ruslar edi
Ular Markaziy Osiyoga sanoatlashtirish va zamonaviy narsalarni olib kelishdi Ulardan oldin siz turkiylar ko'chmanchi qabila xalqi bo'lgansiz
@@yo-gz8rv to'g'ri qadimgi turkiy xalqlar ya'ni saklar massagetlar hunlar yuechilar(kushon podsholigiga asos solgan qabilalar) va ilk o'rta asrlardagi turkiy xalqlar ya'ni toxarlar eftallar ko'kturklar dastlab ko'chmanchi hayot tarziga ega bo'lgan ovchi va jangchi xalq bo'lgan lekin turkiylar xalqlar aynan ruslar sababli o'troqlashmagan bunga sabab sug'diylar va baqtiriyaliklar kabi xalqlar bilan kechgan madaniy aloqalar sabab bo'lgan turklar sharqda Oxoto va Yapon dengizidan g'arbda markaziy Yevropagacha bo'lgan hududlarda hukmronlik qilgan davrlarda slavyan xalqlari hali ham 3 gruhga bo'linib yashashardi (g'arbiy janubiy va sharqiy(ruslar shu guruhga mansub)) Keyinchalik Kiyev Rusi davlatining asosiy raqiblaridan biri ham qipchoqlar bo'lishgan ular qipchoqlarga soliq to'lashgan bundan tashqari Amur Temur rus yerlariga borganda xalqni xarob ahvolini ko'rib ulardan soliq olmagan (buni hatto bazi rus tarixchilari ham tan oladi) chunki u davrda rus knyazliklari juda tarqoq holda bo'lib xalq qiyinchilikda hayot kechirganlar hali ruslar ko'z ilg'amas kuch ega bo'lar ekan bizni tirk ajdodlarimiz dunyoni xon-u amirlari bo'lgan shu bilan ham aynan ruslar turklarni madaniylashtirdi o'troqlashtirdi deyishlik qanchalik to'g'ri
@@yo-gz8rvwere Uzbeks nomads at that time? of course not, we had 3 khanates and everywhere had its own architecture and lived a sedentary lifestyle, but the betrayal of other peoples took away large territories from us.And I hope you understand that even now Central Asia is not developing because of the intervention of Russia and China
Thank you so much!!!You are doing great job.
Thanks!
very interesting thank you
I really wonder how many episodes there will be left for this channel.
Amazing that the Bolsheviks managed to pacify and consolidate the Soviet Union the way they did considering the various ideologies and ethnicities they had to contend with. Absolutely remarkable.
Maybe, that’s why they gained such a hard attitude in terms of governing. Secret police all around, when you take away that oppression the Soviet Union collapsed as ethnic groups chose to move away.
@Alex W why would you defend such a murderous dictatorship..
Great content of the video. Thank you.
4:53 "Those mostly fought on horseback." That is one ugly horse.
Touché.
A pity that the Brits, Japanese, and Americans didn't hang around to help the locals and the White Russians to totally crush the budding Communist regimes. Life might be a lot better in this current day and age. I love these videos. Things like this were lightly touched on in world history, but never in depth, even back in schools in the 60s and 70s. More the pity.
Major kudos to The Great War!!!
Weirdly enough central Asia developed most under Soviet rule plus central Asia is very much secular today compared to then you have women wearing shorts watching their cousins in Afghanistan see the effects of anti-communism
Best video on the topic in youtube.
I love your channel keep up the great stuff!
Just looked at your Amazon storefront. I can't find any of the sources for this week's episode.
An analysis of Central Asia in civil wars! Hope you will make a video on Alash Orda.
Another great episode. Hint, proper maps have a scale. I had to pull up goggle maps to see the scale of the conflict.
You can guestimate the size of the conflict by the time the modern train crosses the territory. It takes 3.5 days from the city of Dushanbe (modern capital of Tajikistan, mentioned in this video) to reach the Volga river (nowadays Russian territory). After that it is only one day travel to Moskow.
The land was scarcely populated, but the civil war toll was high, as almost 50% of population had perished.
A person, whose father fought alongside with Frunze on the Soviets side, once described it as a bloody bath: "(we) simply wiped out entire villages including wimen and children, to cut support and supply to the basmachi guerillas". It is estimated that the civil war took lives of 2 mil of kazakh alone.
On the other hand, without the Soviets invasion, the Central Asia would likely to remain nomadic, similar to a nowadays Afghanistan (which was then also partly a Bukhara emirate).
This subject is mentioned briefly in the movie REDS. John Reeds character is mad that the Soviet leaders are changing his speeches from those about class consciousness and the proletarian vanguard to Islamic fundamentalism
Proud to be child Kyrgyz turk nomads who fights against Russian occupant
Түрктөрдү цивилизациялаган Россияга рахмат
You forgot Enver Pasha
Amazing colourised videos.
Everytime he says The Reds I keep expecting him to say the Red Ribbon army. Lmao man I watch too much anime
How did I miss this?!? Ah I was wanting to see this...
Greetings from Philippines, how are y'all today?
Love this video
you made a mistake 40% of the Kazakhs were destroyed and not the Kyrgyz at that time the Kazakhs were called Kyrgyz
Who are you totaled by?
Actually, up to 1929 all of that land was called a Soviet Kyrgyz Republic with the capital in Orenbug (!), with entire population being historically referred to as "kyrgyz".
@@odissey2: At the time, Kyrgyzstan was referred to as "Kara-Kyrgyz," or Black Kyrgyz, and they are a bit darker, but in Turkish languages both Ak and Kara (White and Black), like the White (Mediterranean) and Black seas have associations as just meaning "great," with white being more like "holy, glorious, light," and I think black is more like "formidable, strong."
Wow that's interesting I did not know anything abt central Asia
We Anatolians should've helped our turkic brothers but we were already fighting our own freedom war
You simply could not help us, because Ataturk asked Lenin for help. He provided you with weapons and supplies.
How could you fight against a country that helps you?
In my native Turkmen 'Basmachi' means raider
Very interesting and parts of history that I think few in the west know.
I've been searching for a definition for the Jadid movement in my research and you saved my life ❤❤❤❤❤
It's a full, total and absolute chaos. And then they wonder, "Hey, why in late 20th century, situation erupted?" The conflict never ended, it simply went underground for a time.
Also, quite astoundig colorized pics.
The photos actually were originally color. They were taken by simultaneously exposing three negatives (sort of RGB color) by Russian photographer Prokudin-Gorsky. The negatives vere later acquired by the US library of Congress from his sons.
really fascinating 👍 excellent work
This is an amazing video
I love this channel
"Hi, look at me. Over here, please use me!"
- Any Dress Shirt.
Poor Kirghiz people, losing 40% of the population is horrible.
This is a flat lie.
@@ErmakBrovar At 3:11 that is what he said, that the Kirghiz people lost 40% of the population.
@@adamradziwill liar. My grand parents from fathers side were living in Kyrgizia. Bringing nothing but infrastructure, industrialization and education for the children of nomads. My grandfather was an engineer and my grandmother was a geography teacher.
@@dragosstanciu9866 1920-35 years russian Soviets shot kazakhs and did holodomor. looks like genocide nation, kazakhs for 9 years old (starting out with 1923, ending 1933) 3.000.000 kazakhs dead, during russian empire kazakhs was 6.000.000 population, and decreased 3.000.000 pop in 1935.
@@askarluifthause4502 A lot of genocides happened in the USSR in those years.
Too nice video with clear explaining of Events rarely Known about it ....
Thanks love it