Lovely simple looking set up. I'm running a Norco Bigfoot with a Bafang BBSHD 1,000 W mid drive which is great but certainly hub drives, especially on fat bikes, offer a less complex set up - eg chain alignment, etc. The hub spacers to accommodate diverse axel dimensions/type are great. Nice kit!
Lots of $$ for a dual motor setup, but the performance will be wicket if you are a big guy needing reliable transport. Price will depend a lot on the options, but you can get an idea for a single motor kit here: ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-kits/grin-fat-all-axle/grin-front-fat-all-axle-sh-kit.html Then for the 2nd kit, you won't need an additional display, throttle, ebrake etc, but you will need a dual Main9 splitter cable, which is something we plan to release in early 2025. The battery you choose will need to support the combined current of both motor controllers, so should have at least a 50A or 60A rated BMS circuit.
Thanks for this! My rear wheel was laced so that all of the spokes went to the drive side holes on the rim compared to the one shown in this video where the rear wheel was laced alternately between the drive and non-drive side. Is it a preference thing or just because I used a 90mm wide rim?
Its a preference thing based on the stagger of the spoke holes in the rim, if there's a choice then normally you'd pick the set of rim holes that results in decent triangulation while minimize the tension difference between the drive and non-drive side spokes.
I have the All-axle hub mated to the Phaserunner and Superharness. It runs smooth and quiet. The belt drive that I am using actually makes more noise than the motor. Interesting the torque sensing feels great now that I have it hooked up with the Superharness. When I ran it with the CA, it felt a little quick with ramp up causing me to spin out faster. For context, I have this on a 20 inch minivelo travel bike with 72volt molicel battery. I want this motor for my Radwagon 4 as a retrofit.
I also do not like the look of hose clamps, and I'm just using heavy duty zip ties. It hasn't moved at all and works great. I carry extra zip ties jic.
The forwards torque of the motor pushes the torque arm into the frame, so the straps don't really have to deal with any tensile forces when you motor away. It's only when you are doing regen that the frame clamp is being pulled away and the zip ties are what's holding things snug. 100 Nm translates into about 150 pounds of force at this distance, so as long as your two heavy duty zip ties combined have a pull out strength with safety margin above this you should be fine. If it's dicey, you can always reduce the max regen phase current to like 40 or 50 amps, still decent stopping power but with less stress on the hardware.
@GrinTechnologies thank you! I think I'm using regen with dyol throttle? I'm using it as a break...it's an amazing setup. The ties have handled it though.
How do you know that the front forks can handle the torque of the front motor? I have heard stories of the front motors breaking the front forks, which obviously results in a catastrophic failure. ouch.
If your front fork can't handle the pulling force of 120 Nm max motor torque, then it definitely also can't handle the braking force of 300+ Nm when you use your brakes. Also it's important not to confuse fork blades braking (extremely rare, but can happen with really low quality forks) with dropouts spreading open or cracking. That's the result of bad chinese motor design relying on axle flats for torque transmission coupled with poor quality or absent torque arms. This motor has a totally round axle, it can't put any spreading torque on the dropout slots even if it tried. All the torque goes to the fork blade via the torque arm, and the forces that it puts on the fork are like 1/3rd what your disk calipers will put on it.
Exciting HM's. Mom said, omit the brakes, cassette, chain, sprocket and cranks. She likes Foot pegs, High battery Voktage and more Watts, and the fastest charger. She slso said to use the Stator Aid.
Looks nice, but not many spokes? looks like only 50% are used, what kind of rider weight can that setup handle as I snap spokes on my Fat bike all time, also I designed a 3D printable clamp for the Grinn universal torque arms, works great and looks really sweet.
It's 32 spokes which is the norm for non-electric fatbike and almost all mountain bikes these days. Breaking of spokes is way more often a sign of poor quality spokes and/or poor lacing than the spoke count.
We've done multiple long haul cargo ebike touring trips in vehicles weighing several 100's of kg without every breaking a spoke over thousands and thousands of km. But if you have an accident where you dent the rim and locally mess up the spoke tension without addressing it, then they can start to fail in rapid succession. If you've had a few spokes break already, I'd just get the whole wheel relaced professionally with quality spokes like sapim or DT Swiss.
@@GrinTechnologies The spoke layout was deceiving, it just looked sparse, for me spoke breakage is due to my weight, I'm 135kg and I'm quite hard on the back wheel with jumping and hitting trails hard, I cant ride most of the newer bikes for this reason as their is limit on rider weight for the frames, I snap spokes that often I keep spares for all my bikes, I'll keep these hub motors in mind for my next build, as I have done multiple Befangs, and I'm just finishing a CYC X1 Pro, but I'm getting annoyed with drive chain issues using mid drives, with my weight and strength+mid-drive=stretched chains and smashed rear cassettes, I'm thinking its time to try something different. Also, I actually use your lacing guide for my wheels, have done for years and have far less broken spokes since I have been lacing my own wheels.
I find it limiting as an owner of a bike w/ 1K front & 1K rear motors but only one throttle, either it's AWD or RWD. As long as you're designing the electrics, how about two throttles? Standard right-twist throttle for the rear motor and a left thumb lever for the front... so I can bring in the front motor when needed. Wide open front throttle for zoom, feathering it when climbing slippery [muddy trails] hills (or I need the extra help otherwise), or ignore the front altogether because the rear motor is all that's needed. Just a thought, rather than one throttle peels out the front tire because _someone_ forgot to disengage AWD again. As long as you're building...
It is super easy to wire up a 2wd system with two separate throttles, anyone can do that if that is their personal preference. But the efficiency with two dd motors like this is always best when the load is evenly split between both motors all the time which is hard to maimtain with two separate inputs. Traction control of the front wheel off the line can easily be addressed by putting an acceleration limit in the front motor controller, and/or lowrer max phase current limits too.
Btw what bike model do you have? I'm presuming it has both controllers on a single housing or pcb, but if instead the two motor controllers are separate modules you may be able to customize the wiring harness so that each controller has its own throttle input
Great motors but would really prefer to see motors made for 190mm. Seeing the gap between the brake disc and motor really drives home the lost opportunity for a much larger motor that would be really useful for fat bikes.
Lovely simple looking set up. I'm running a Norco Bigfoot with a Bafang BBSHD 1,000 W mid drive which is great but certainly hub drives, especially on fat bikes, offer a less complex set up - eg chain alignment, etc. The hub spacers to accommodate diverse axel dimensions/type are great. Nice kit!
Sssooo Cool!!! Great presentation. I look forward to shopping with you soon.
Definitely using one of these for a future build
Great, it took long time for Grin motors to get to this level.
How much are the kits?
Far to expensive compared to other motors
Expensive, but probably worth it if got the money and want canadian buisness to grow.
As a big dude who will rely on it for transportation, I definitely want dual motor. How much?
Lots of $$ for a dual motor setup, but the performance will be wicket if you are a big guy needing reliable transport. Price will depend a lot on the options, but you can get an idea for a single motor kit here:
ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-kits/grin-fat-all-axle/grin-front-fat-all-axle-sh-kit.html
Then for the 2nd kit, you won't need an additional display, throttle, ebrake etc, but you will need a dual Main9 splitter cable, which is something we plan to release in early 2025.
The battery you choose will need to support the combined current of both motor controllers, so should have at least a 50A or 60A rated BMS circuit.
Thanks for this! My rear wheel was laced so that all of the spokes went to the drive side holes on the rim compared to the one shown in this video where the rear wheel was laced alternately between the drive and non-drive side. Is it a preference thing or just because I used a 90mm wide rim?
Its a preference thing based on the stagger of the spoke holes in the rim, if there's a choice then normally you'd pick the set of rim holes that results in decent triangulation while minimize the tension difference between the drive and non-drive side spokes.
@@GrinTechnologies Thanks for the explanation!
I have the All-axle hub mated to the Phaserunner and Superharness. It runs smooth and quiet. The belt drive that I am using actually makes more noise than the motor. Interesting the torque sensing feels great now that I have it hooked up with the Superharness. When I ran it with the CA, it felt a little quick with ramp up causing me to spin out faster. For context, I have this on a 20 inch minivelo travel bike with 72volt molicel battery. I want this motor for my Radwagon 4 as a retrofit.
I also do not like the look of hose clamps, and I'm just using heavy duty zip ties. It hasn't moved at all and works great. I carry extra zip ties jic.
The forwards torque of the motor pushes the torque arm into the frame, so the straps don't really have to deal with any tensile forces when you motor away. It's only when you are doing regen that the frame clamp is being pulled away and the zip ties are what's holding things snug.
100 Nm translates into about 150 pounds of force at this distance, so as long as your two heavy duty zip ties combined have a pull out strength with safety margin above this you should be fine. If it's dicey, you can always reduce the max regen phase current to like 40 or 50 amps, still decent stopping power but with less stress on the hardware.
@GrinTechnologies thank you! I think I'm using regen with dyol throttle? I'm using it as a break...it's an amazing setup. The ties have handled it though.
How do you know that the front forks can handle the torque of the front motor? I have heard stories of the front motors breaking the front forks, which obviously results in a catastrophic failure. ouch.
If your front fork can't handle the pulling force of 120 Nm max motor torque, then it definitely also can't handle the braking force of 300+ Nm when you use your brakes.
Also it's important not to confuse fork blades braking (extremely rare, but can happen with really low quality forks) with dropouts spreading open or cracking. That's the result of bad chinese motor design relying on axle flats for torque transmission coupled with poor quality or absent torque arms.
This motor has a totally round axle, it can't put any spreading torque on the dropout slots even if it tried. All the torque goes to the fork blade via the torque arm, and the forces that it puts on the fork are like 1/3rd what your disk calipers will put on it.
Great work, I wonder what headset is in that frame, I have Kona frame with X(ZS44/EC49)
Exciting HM's. Mom said, omit the brakes, cassette, chain, sprocket and cranks. She likes Foot pegs, High battery Voktage and more Watts, and the fastest charger. She slso said to use the Stator Aid.
Ty😊😊😊😊😊
Looks nice, but not many spokes? looks like only 50% are used, what kind of rider weight can that setup handle as I snap spokes on my Fat bike all time, also I designed a 3D printable clamp for the Grinn universal torque arms, works great and looks really sweet.
It's 32 spokes which is the norm for non-electric fatbike and almost all mountain bikes these days.
Breaking of spokes is way more often a sign of poor quality spokes and/or poor lacing than the spoke count.
We've done multiple long haul cargo ebike touring trips in vehicles weighing several 100's of kg without every breaking a spoke over thousands and thousands of km.
But if you have an accident where you dent the rim and locally mess up the spoke tension without addressing it, then they can start to fail in rapid succession.
If you've had a few spokes break already, I'd just get the whole wheel relaced professionally with quality spokes like sapim or DT Swiss.
@@GrinTechnologies The spoke layout was deceiving, it just looked sparse, for me spoke breakage is due to my weight, I'm 135kg and I'm quite hard on the back wheel with jumping and hitting trails hard, I cant ride most of the newer bikes for this reason as their is limit on rider weight for the frames, I snap spokes that often I keep spares for all my bikes, I'll keep these hub motors in mind for my next build, as I have done multiple Befangs, and I'm just finishing a CYC X1 Pro, but I'm getting annoyed with drive chain issues using mid drives, with my weight and strength+mid-drive=stretched chains and smashed rear cassettes, I'm thinking its time to try something different. Also, I actually use your lacing guide for my wheels, have done for years and have far less broken spokes since I have been lacing my own wheels.
I find it limiting as an owner of a bike w/ 1K front & 1K rear motors but only one throttle, either it's AWD or RWD. As long as you're designing the electrics, how about two throttles? Standard right-twist throttle for the rear motor and a left thumb lever for the front... so I can bring in the front motor when needed. Wide open front throttle for zoom, feathering it when climbing slippery [muddy trails] hills (or I need the extra help otherwise), or ignore the front altogether because the rear motor is all that's needed. Just a thought, rather than one throttle peels out the front tire because _someone_ forgot to disengage AWD again. As long as you're building...
It is super easy to wire up a 2wd system with two separate throttles, anyone can do that if that is their personal preference. But the efficiency with two dd motors like this is always best when the load is evenly split between both motors all the time which is hard to maimtain with two separate inputs.
Traction control of the front wheel off the line can easily be addressed by putting an acceleration limit in the front motor controller, and/or lowrer max phase current limits too.
Btw what bike model do you have? I'm presuming it has both controllers on a single housing or pcb, but if instead the two motor controllers are separate modules you may be able to customize the wiring harness so that each controller has its own throttle input
I want this for 36 holes as my Fat cargo bike uses 36 hole rims with 2.5mm thick spokes
Who wouldn't want two of the same powered fat motors on the same bike?
Great motors but would really prefer to see motors made for 190mm. Seeing the gap between the brake disc and motor really drives home the lost opportunity for a much larger motor that would be really useful for fat bikes.
I want this so bad, but I have too many e-bikes as it is