i was impressed with his down to earth nature, and his simple faith in God. i felt the Holy Spirit as he talked about "heavenly Father and heavenly Mother". i don't feel he deserved to be excommunicated - but to him it has been a blessing in the sense that he didn't need to be a member to appreciate his relationship with God.
My excommunication was much like yours only I was late 20's with three kids. I was tortured on interviews as a woman with a grown man who told me about sex with his wife, ask probing questions, Today, I believe it to be sexual assault. The bishop and Stake President are now the Patriarch and Stake President. Most of my family including one of my children are active members. My excommunication was also an unexpected relief just as you described. I was first disfellowshipped and began a fervent attempt to return to a good standing. I finally refused to be subjected to a council of men judging me so I did not return for interviews thus was ex-ed. I also could not attend any other church and still have a testimony of the fundamentals (polygamy never bothered me) but unrighteous priesthood holders sent me running. I still attend occasionally and totally support my family in all their beliefs. My Dad is also a Historian of sorts and always shared with us many flaws in character in the early history. Curious if you ever ran across stories, journals of Porter Rockwell, he is a favorite of mine My Daddy made me love him. Best wishes to you this was a great interview. I looking at your books now.
For the record, the ex-communication of Quinn was a moment of clarity for me. I no longer respected the leadership of the church. Support of Trump by the rank and file was the final nail in the coffin.
I am inspired and as an Active Mormon I am proud of Michael Quinn and this interview has made me want to learn more to be a better person, not just a Mormon. Thanks
For me, perhaps D. Michael's greatest legacy is the enigma he remains as a person in KNOWING all the frauds and lies and scandals of alleged "prophets, seers and revelators" and all the false doctrines taught... first, as "revealed" by such as eternal principles for the Church... then later changed, altered, renounced or simply ignored mere decades later.. and yet STILL BELIEVING the Church is indeed the "One True Church"(?!). How can someone who knows better than most all the outright lies and frauds perpetrated by Joseph Smith, Jr. upon his own people and his own church, not to mention against his own wife and family, still believe him to literally be a Prophet of God?! How can one rationalize this in light of his acknowledgment that, indeed, Joseph's claim to seeing God and Jesus was a "very common" claim of many ministers and their converts in the 1820s (timeframe: 1:58:20) ... and then emphatically proclaim, just four minutes later (timeframe: 2:02:16), that Joseph Smith was indeed "... a Prophet of God who spoke with God face to face, my absolute conviction..." (?!?!). How can someone KNOW Joseph was merely parroting a "very common" revival practice of that day and place that he borrowed from other ministers to build his own congregation... and yet still BELIEVE Joseph, unlike all those others, was telling the truth and thus was a real Prophet of God?! How I wish this question... and others like it... had been asked of him. I admire greatly Dr. Quinn's scholarship and his dedication to investigating and telling the historical truth... but will never understand, in light of that dedication and the historical truths revealed, his inconceivable (yes, Inigo Montoya, I used that term correctly) credulity in KNOWING the truth and yet still ignoring it when his own "absolute convictions" were challenged therewith. Even despite his own excommunication for telling the truth about the "One True Church" claiming itself to have the only "true" Prophet of God at its head to reveal "TRUTH" to the world... yet in attitude he strangely more resembles a Church Apologist bearing his testimony... AGAINST the very truths his own research and subsequent publications have revealed to the world. To my view, just as Dr. Quinn struggled throughout most of his life engaged in a constant battle within himself between initially desired heterosexuality and embracing his actual homosexuality... so also did he fight a never-ending battle within himself between his equally strong desire to know the Church is true... and the undeniable results of his own decades'-worth of investigation proving just the opposite. And while it appears he thankfully won that former internal battle in accepting and embracing his homosexuality... yet, sadly, he died losing that latter internal battle, choosing Belief over Reality. For unlike with his eventual acceptance of his sexuality, yet he never could come to accept the very truths about the Church he had dedicated his life to discovering! This, to me, is the real tragedy of his true-believer life: That he was kicked out of the "One True Church" (Dr. Quinn's words) for telling the Truth about all of it... and yet despite this, he still believed to his dying day that this same truth-hating Church was still True.
No human is immune from irrational beliefs. This man is a walking irony. Still smart, but still human enough to trust personal feelings as true in a factual sense. So damn silly
I think the church took his advice and is now innoculating their youth! Unfortunately, it's too late for my generation. We are finding out the truth and are able to read and think for ourselves. We don't have to trust apologists opinions on the matter.
This was an inspiring interview. His mild sense of humor and respectful attitude do me good, also his strong faith in the Lord, the five presidents he admires although flawed as a prophet. Interesting to see excommunication as an ordinance, that, as any other ordinance, has to be ratified by the Holy spirit of promise in order to be valid; I never thought of it that way, but it is true, no doubt about it. This is a key statement that I'll remember. Remarkable for an apostle to say he has hard time with historians because they idolise the truth. That is also something to remember, and to draw some conclusions from, of course. I wonder , would the Lord ever say something like that? No, in fact He said quite something else. Woe unto people who cut off others from the church for private pique or to exercise undue dominion or for any reason not prompted by truth and righteousness; are these people not afraid of the great day?
Could someone please tell me where Brigham Young said there are many different prophets in the world, but Joseph Smith is ours? As Quinn said early on here.
When I visited a Mormon temple I felt a profound sense of pity. They simply do not understand that the true Christian has a temple, but it is not one made with human hands. These poor people stand under the wrath of God.
"Inoculation." Is this really being "honest in your dealings"? If there is to be an inoculation given to members, those inoculations should be taking place in 3 or 4 year old Primary classes...A N D...salted into the missionary discussions with potential converts. IOW, it can only be fair to the "investigator" that they are fully informed of all aspects of the religion they are considering. To do anything less is absolutely DISHONEST!
After I sent in my resignation letter, the local bishop and some other guy just dropped by my house. I answered the door in my sports bra, and had the upper hand after that. But early on it was like a death, and it was a relief.
As a fifty year member I accept that there are some things that we take on faith i.e. how the Atonement works. Or, the mechanics of the resurrection. Adam-God is not one of these.
Mormonism is not a cult. We have come here to see stories of the members of our church. It is what we believe. Everything you think about our church is a story that has been changed. My dad heard that we don't use symbolism, and that made him think we didn't believe in the crucifixion. We do. We use the Bible, and think about this. There is nothing in the Book of Mormon opposing the Bible, in fact, it supports it and helps fill in questions you might have. Ask us questions if your confused.
Anyone who says Mormonism is not a cult is ignorant and an idiot. Educate yourself first by researching the church history before opening up your mouth!
Heavenly Father has not left us on Earth without a prophet. He doesn't judge the innocent children. He has not made the way for us to come back extremely complicated. He would want us to go to church every Sunday and partake of the sacrement every Sunday. He would want us to save the dead people who haven't joined the church. I believe that he has not left us to fend for ourselves, and hope he will answer. He is answering your prayers right now, just not how you might expect.
Actual interview doesn't start until the 14 minute mark. Skip up to then.
i was impressed with his down to earth nature, and his simple faith in God. i felt the Holy Spirit as he talked about "heavenly Father and heavenly Mother". i don't feel he deserved to be excommunicated - but to him it has been a blessing in the sense that he didn't need to be a member to appreciate his relationship with God.
My excommunication was much like yours only I was late 20's with three kids. I was tortured on interviews as a woman with a grown man who told me about sex with his wife, ask probing questions, Today, I believe it to be sexual assault. The bishop and Stake President are now the Patriarch and Stake President. Most of my family including one of my children are active members. My excommunication was also an unexpected relief just as you described. I was first disfellowshipped and began a fervent attempt to return to a good standing. I finally refused to be subjected to a council of men judging me so I did not return for interviews thus was ex-ed. I also could not attend any other church and still have a testimony of the fundamentals (polygamy never bothered me) but unrighteous priesthood holders sent me running. I still attend occasionally and totally support my family in all their beliefs. My Dad is also a Historian of sorts and always shared with us many flaws in character in the early history. Curious if you ever ran across stories, journals of Porter Rockwell, he is a favorite of mine
My Daddy made me love him. Best wishes to you this was a great interview. I looking at your books now.
For the record, the ex-communication of Quinn was a moment of clarity for me. I no longer respected the leadership of the church. Support of Trump by the rank and file was the final nail in the coffin.
Mitt Romney didn't change your mind?
@@anarchorepublican5954 oh, the guy who brought affordable healthcare to Massachusetts? No.
I am inspired and as an Active Mormon I am proud of Michael Quinn and this interview has made me want to learn more to be a better person, not just a Mormon. Thanks
As a member of the First Unitarian Church of Salt Lake City, I was proud to recognize the building this was in. :)
...was wondering which church hosted this...
I so enjoy your interviews with historians. Really enjoyed this one
For me, perhaps D. Michael's greatest legacy is the enigma he remains as a person in KNOWING all the frauds and lies and scandals of alleged "prophets, seers and revelators" and all the false doctrines taught... first, as "revealed" by such as eternal principles for the Church... then later changed, altered, renounced or simply ignored mere decades later.. and yet STILL BELIEVING the Church is indeed the "One True Church"(?!). How can someone who knows better than most all the outright lies and frauds perpetrated by Joseph Smith, Jr. upon his own people and his own church, not to mention against his own wife and family, still believe him to literally be a Prophet of God?!
How can one rationalize this in light of his acknowledgment that, indeed, Joseph's claim to seeing God and Jesus was a "very common" claim of many ministers and their converts in the 1820s (timeframe: 1:58:20) ... and then emphatically proclaim, just four minutes later (timeframe: 2:02:16), that Joseph Smith was indeed "... a Prophet of God who spoke with God face to face, my absolute conviction..." (?!?!). How can someone KNOW Joseph was merely parroting a "very common" revival practice of that day and place that he borrowed from other ministers to build his own congregation... and yet still BELIEVE Joseph, unlike all those others, was telling the truth and thus was a real Prophet of God?!
How I wish this question... and others like it... had been asked of him.
I admire greatly Dr. Quinn's scholarship and his dedication to investigating and telling the historical truth... but will never understand, in light of that dedication and the historical truths revealed, his inconceivable (yes, Inigo Montoya, I used that term correctly) credulity in KNOWING the truth and yet still ignoring it when his own "absolute convictions" were challenged therewith. Even despite his own excommunication for telling the truth about the "One True Church" claiming itself to have the only "true" Prophet of God at its head to reveal "TRUTH" to the world... yet in attitude he strangely more resembles a Church Apologist bearing his testimony... AGAINST the very truths his own research and subsequent publications have revealed to the world.
To my view, just as Dr. Quinn struggled throughout most of his life engaged in a constant battle within himself between initially desired heterosexuality and embracing his actual homosexuality... so also did he fight a never-ending battle within himself between his equally strong desire to know the Church is true... and the undeniable results of his own decades'-worth of investigation proving just the opposite. And while it appears he thankfully won that former internal battle in accepting and embracing his homosexuality... yet, sadly, he died losing that latter internal battle, choosing Belief over Reality. For unlike with his eventual acceptance of his sexuality, yet he never could come to accept the very truths about the Church he had dedicated his life to discovering!
This, to me, is the real tragedy of his true-believer life: That he was kicked out of the "One True Church" (Dr. Quinn's words) for telling the Truth about all of it... and yet despite this, he still believed to his dying day that this same truth-hating Church was still True.
No human is immune from irrational beliefs. This man is a walking irony. Still smart, but still human enough to trust personal feelings as true in a factual sense. So damn silly
You're right!
I think the church took his advice and is now innoculating their youth! Unfortunately, it's too late for my generation. We are finding out the truth and are able to read and think for ourselves. We don't have to trust apologists opinions on the matter.
This was an inspiring interview. His mild sense of humor and respectful attitude do me good, also his strong faith in the Lord, the five presidents he admires although flawed as a prophet.
Interesting to see excommunication as an ordinance, that, as any other ordinance, has to be ratified by the Holy spirit of promise in order to be valid; I never thought of it that way, but it is true, no doubt about it. This is a key statement that I'll remember.
Remarkable for an apostle to say he has hard time with historians because they idolise the truth. That is also something to remember, and to draw some conclusions from, of course. I wonder , would the Lord ever say something like that? No, in fact He said quite something else.
Woe unto people who cut off others from the church for private pique or to exercise undue dominion or for any reason not prompted by truth and righteousness; are these people not afraid of the great day?
I've read a couple of D. Michael Quinn's books. Very knowledgeable historian.
And people need to remember that history is only bad if we repeat it.
Could someone please tell me where Brigham Young said there are many different prophets in the world, but Joseph Smith is ours? As Quinn said early on here.
He must have had experiences that you have not or cannot comprehend yet.
When I visited a Mormon temple I felt a profound sense of pity. They simply do not understand that the true Christian has a temple, but it is not one made with human hands. These poor people stand under the wrath of God.
"Inoculation."
Is this really being "honest in your dealings"?
If there is to be an inoculation given to members, those inoculations should be taking place in
3 or 4 year old Primary classes...A N D...salted into the missionary discussions with potential converts. IOW, it can only be fair to the "investigator" that they are fully informed of all aspects
of the religion they are considering. To do anything less is absolutely DISHONEST!
After I sent in my resignation letter, the local bishop and some other guy just dropped by my house. I answered the door in my sports bra, and had the upper hand after that. But early on it was like a death, and it was a relief.
Loved his relationship with God
He was one of the last church members to excommunicated May he rest in peace
Wow!
Moses built a Temple, Solomon built a Temple, Jesus went to the Temple, your missing something.
The Lord does not dwell in Temples made with hands.
Their purpose was fulfilled in the old testament. The curtain was torn.
As a fifty year member I accept that there are some things that we take on faith i.e. how the Atonement works. Or, the mechanics of the resurrection. Adam-God is not one of these.
Please explain these things you know about the afterlife. At least throw me a bone.
+Brenda Kern . Consider the book Proof of Heaven (2012) by Dr Eban Alexander III, a man who as a neuro-surgeon had a NDE
You could check out Richard Matheson's novel, What Dreams May Come, which also has an extensive source bibliography in the back.
The books: Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls by Dr Michael Newton, are a good start.
The Forever Conscious Research Channel has an interesting take on NDE's
This opening introduction sounds like something from the politically correct gay and lesbian alliance
Immunization is a God given gift to mankind
The mormon church---It's not a lie if you believe it...
Mormonism is not a cult. We have come here to see stories of the members of our church. It is what we believe. Everything you think about our church is a story that has been changed. My dad heard that we don't use symbolism, and that made him think we didn't believe in the crucifixion. We do. We use the Bible, and think about this. There is nothing in the Book of Mormon opposing the Bible, in fact, it supports it and helps fill in questions you might have. Ask us questions if your confused.
"Ask us questions if your confused" Ok, Where's your apostrophe?
MORmONS attempting to *explain* things ......awesome!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Anyone who says Mormonism is not a cult is ignorant and an idiot. Educate yourself first by researching the church history before opening up your mouth!
Heavenly Father has not left us on Earth without a prophet. He doesn't judge the innocent children. He has not made the way for us to come back extremely complicated. He would want us to go to church every Sunday and partake of the sacrement every Sunday. He would want us to save the dead people who haven't joined the church. I believe that he has not left us to fend for ourselves, and hope he will answer. He is answering your prayers right now, just not how you might expect.
You can be that stupid to believe this BS. Oh wait, you are!
Did he say - God Herself?
snoresville... 2 and a half hours? sheesh.
Michael was friends with Charlie Brown?
The Book of Mormon is true....
………… haha
Says who???
@@tarlustaylor6492 me
@@bovaoifi You are brainwashed. Time to stop drinking the Mormon Kool-Aid