I disagree on y’all’s take that Paul lied to Chani that he loves her. He does love her, we spent the half part of the movie of Paul having internal conflict to follow his destiny and BE the Lisan Al Gaib, or follow his heart with Chani and continue following the Fremen way. Even Lady Jessica was like “You are blinded by love”. When he drank the Water of Life, he now could see every possible future. He picked the future where he not only gains victory against the emperor and the Harkonnens but also to make sure everyone he cares about survives the longest. That’s why he told Chani, I will love you for as long as I breathe. Because then he knows he HAS to offer his hand to Princess Irulan. To fulfill the future he wanted.
Facts. he even says this in the first movie BEFORE he meets chani. he asks the fremen lady they meet in the first movie that what if he proposes marriage to his daughter in order to achieve peace. meaning Paul already knows that there is also the aspect of duty where he will marry someone he doesn't love to achieve a higher purpose. which is what unfolds in the second movie. so yes, he still loves chain and wasn't using her at all. in fact its IRULAN he's using in order to get the emperors seat.
@@joshufo9959He fell in love with a girl that he saw 5 minutes ago and while he told her to marry him he was looking at the emparor, because he loved her, really? Chani is literally the girl of his dreams.
@@joshufo9959the movie is only changing the most fringe choices though. Everything btwn Paul and Chani has been authentic. He’s using Irulan as a pawn and not only will Chani forgive him for it, it will make them stronger because she then realizes he isn’t a messiah for the final time, but her Paul.
There needs to be a big sign in front of this video that says "Dune from the perspective from movie goers and not book readers". You dont "need" to read the book to enjoy the movie, although it can enhance the experience and give additional perspectives in ways that the films cant get into. I can understand the desire to enjoy the movies on their own and to not spoil oneself. For ppl that have only seen the films, they do get a bit right. Even the Chani issue was corrected partway thru the video.
Paul is a bad guy but it’s more complicated. He’s using Princess Irulan NOT Chani. He is however betraying Chani’s trust in him as a way of gaining power.
This. In a world where most people are conditioned to think in a binary, black or white type of way, Paul ascends to become a type of hero/antihero that is too complex to describe in a 15 minute video.. or a short comment section. For me, Paul is not so much a hero as he is someone intent to take on power to achieve a purpose. If the purpose is noble then he's a great hero.. but when it becomes destructive then Paul is the baddest mofo ever.
@@10Shun Exactly him leading was a positive when he was helping the fremen as a way to free themselves . However he becomes a more villainous figure when he uses them for his own gain as opposed to acting altruistically for the good of the many.
Yes, him choosing this path is him repeating the biggest reject of his father’s life: not marrying the women he loves and wanting to just keep her as a concubine. Except this is worse because he is marrying the Princess.
I love watching Garrick talk about things he loves lol. I’ve said it before I’ll say it again, I want him to talk about animation more lol. DO BLUE EYE SAMURAI PLEASEEEEE
I’m so happy Garrick brought up Attack on Titan at the end! After I saw this movie I turned to my friend and said “so Eren was heavily inspired by Paul right?”
Also it’s not just a story about Paul being the bad guy- it’s the reluctant messiah trope given form. And it’s better and worse than y’all think: he does love Chani but choosing to defeat the emperor means she will die and he knows that since he knows the future
Omg i got caught up on cup holder debate. I googled it and it says that "Just like dining etiquette, your drink should be on your right side. Use the cup holder to your left and you will probably end up having someone else enjoying your drink."
@@ednasierra1083 i mean some people are left handed so i understand why some go to the left, but in a crowded theater, please go to the right and don't take both cup holders.
I know this is just a personal preference thing and I’d never tell you guys to change anything about your work, but I do want to say that sometimes watching this as a woman and constantly hearing Kelsey literally say “me no thinkie” when she’s on a podcast specifically about movie discussion and dissection, is hard to hear. Of course having a bunch of different points of view is the best for driving conversation, but it’s just a thing I’ve noticed happens a lot. Love the show always though 💜
And I LOVE that there's a "layman" to the cinematic world.... but sometimes the "I wouldn't like Oppenheimer..(because I'm a girl)" discussions get old. I want to see the mad appriciation for cinema as it transcends age, class, and gender. Solution, bring another girlie, like Becky, who loves to read the books before watching!...or somone like that!
Tbf, there are plenty of times when she has the best take of the room as well. The boys are also very stuck-in-their-ways in terms of how they see movies, just about different things.
The Bene Geserit literally has spent 1000s of years making a breeding program to bring forth the Lisan Al Ghaib and it was supposed to be the child of Jessica’s female child by the duke and Austin Butler’s character. But she chose to have a boy. So they were trying to have Paul killed once they realized they couldn’t control him, since they’ve been controlling from behind the scenes across millennia.
Glad Zach mentioned the moment where the sound cuts except for Chani's little giggle before the exploion - in a movie full of jaw-dropping awesome scenes, that little moment was actually my favorite
Best sound design ever! The fact that THAT moment stands out! Chef’s kiss. Bc it grounds us viewers into the reality and makes the stakes feel realer 👏🏻🥳 love
Paul fully loves Chani, but he has to suffer a massive heart ache in the next movie to allow his son to save the future from the results of the Fremen holy war. Seeing the necessary future is a bitch for him in the end.
for the movie theater cup debate, typically most theaters have the seats where it tells you the number on the arm of the seat and that that little with the plaque of the number there's a arrow that tells you which cup holder is yours :)
Im 47 mins and didnt hear a single thing about rebbecca or florence. They killed it as well i think rebecca did such a good job at giving an audience somthing to worry about bc she played worried mom very well lol. Also florence getting a more evil hat with each new scene is hilarious and i cant wait to see more of her in the next one! Timotay was amazing dune was my introduction to him hes a great actor no doubt!
He isn’t lying to chani , he does love her but because he now sees the future and the path he has to take, he’s willing to hurt her for now because he knows she will come around . He even mentions in the movie that “she will come around” she will eventually come to understand.
Love this podcast and your passion! Consider this - I feel like if you had a Dune book reader (and I do mean they have read the 6 Frank Herbert books) amongst you, the conversation would be juicier and present a good contrast between the new adaptations and the original works!
6 minutes into the podcast, and I am turning it off! Because I feel like I want to read the book now. I had NO idea it was a villian origin story. And I AM ABSOLUTELY 100% sold.
Literally no one is good. The whole series (at least the first 4 books) are specifically about the problems with hero worship and how people use religion to justify their own egos. That said, it's still not as simple as that, because these people are terrible, of course, but like everything in the world, it's complicated. "Road to hell/good intentions" and all that
Anti-gav Suspensor Technology, you have the floating light in the first movie, the hunter seeker, the descending Sardaukar soldiers and the Baron. The Baron and the Harkonnen soldiers in the 2nd movie.
The way I OBSESSED over this movie the entire week after watching it was unhinged but my god it’s probably the first time a sequel has ever made it into one of my favorite movies of all time
I love you guys and this podcast SO. MUCH. and was so excited to see this episode pop-up in my feed-but this episode was un-listenable, I had to turn it off fifteen minutes in out of frustration. There is a difference between stating something as a matter of opinion and as a matter of fact, and you guys were getting a SHIT ton just completely wrong about the movie/series and espousing it as truth. Gotta fact-check yourselves sometimes and this was a reeeeeal big one you’re gonna need to look back on.
it’s so wild to be hearing all this discussion about the vocab of the series and not even acknowledging that the majority of the words are loan words from arabic lmao
I don’t think these people read (other than booktok soft porn apparently)… I have seen a couple of their podcasts before and they were entertaining but this episode was so frustrating as a Dune fan omg
@@worrywirtyeah I wish they brought a dune expert to help with the gaps . I haven’t even read the books but I’ve watched enough videos to know a good amount of Lore. I’m surprised they didn’t do more research lol
To answer Zach’s question around the 52 minute mark, Paul definitely believed (and it is true) that the path he ends up taking is the only way to avoid universal destruction
I can't watch this yet because I haven't seen the new Dune yet, but just wanted to thank Garrick for the Mr. and Mrs. Smith suggestion from a few episodes ago. Didn't realize it was a thing, so I watched it and really enjoyed it
I know this whole episode was about Dune, but the portion about ACOTAR I want to scream LOL. As I have been reading it, I can just see in my head the series that they could make if they put as much effort of Dune or GOT into the series that I HOPE they create. It is just SO good, the series is just so good, even when it is moving a little slower to build context and information and setting the scene. Kelsey if you Lauren and I got a chance to just sit and chat through this fkn series I'd cry LOL
The series is endless contradictions and complexities. Paul is the hero, but then he isn’t, he does horrible things, but also prevents worse things, his son does even worse things, but has good reasons for doing them. Still their powers are largely a curse to themselves and humanity. Kind of like Thanos but it makes you think a lot more The water of life gives you the memories of all your female ancestors if you’re a woman, and Paul as the first man to successfully drink it gets all of his female AND male ancestral memories. He also becomes the most powerful prescient being up to that point. The prescience is more important in this stage in the series but the ancestral memories are talked about more in books 3 and 4 I also agree that Barry Keoghan should be in part 3, what a great actor, he could play either Scytale or Bijaz and kill either role
Love this episode but I do think there are a few book fallacies lol. I’m almost positive that he explains the mechanics of how the ride the worms and why it works (ie they lift some of the scales on the skin to allow sand and spice to get in and this allows the fremen to steer the sandworms and it makes them docile). Dune is one of my favorite novels because there are explanations left and right. Love you guys though! Any other dune heads remember some of these details??
My only complaint is that the ending wrap up was missing. It was not given the weight needed that Paul was ordering the destruction of pre-spice locations and if they were destroyed it would cause a chain reaction and kill all worms on Dune. The spice would NOT flow.
In the books the time it took to get to the point where he claimed the throne for himself he already had a child with Channi who died before they had two more kids. It took years to get to that point and his sister was already born. Paul makes a point of telling Channi that Irulian on will never know him as a true husband, it's only political. Even Jessica who was never married to Duke Leto tells Channi that they will be remembered as the wives in history because they stood with their men.
the misread on Paul as a villian and his relationship with Chani is crazy to me and I think it’s because of Zendaya’s acting and how Chani is written to be SO obstinate and unsupportive. it’s complicated but her character’s personality/behavior was reaaallllyyyy lost
The stunt coordinator talked on a German RUclips chanel (Kino Plus) about the sandworm riding scene. That scene alone took 2 months to shoot. I could not believe my ears when I heard that. 😯
I really like the fact that you guys are reconsidering whether Paul really loves Chani or just simply using her. In the book, Chani's character was more supportive of Paul's transformation to the Mahdi and Paul was portrayed to be much more loving of Chani. However, it also left no doubt that Paul was intent on becoming the Lisan Al-Gaib after his visions failed to tell him of the Harkonnen's attack on Sietch Tabr which cost the life of their son Leto (the first one.. there will be a second but that's a longer story). So book-wise, Paul was very much in love with Chani but he "had to" become the Lisan Al Gaib to continue to protect his family and the Fremen..and assume whatever role will follow after. In a way, the movie adaptation of Chani was more effective in drawing in the audience to the narrative that Paul really is a bad, bad mofo. One who could sacrifice everything he values for his lust for revenge and power. Chani's depiction as a cynical lover, who felt the deepest betrayal - as she should - at the end of the movie, makes for a more compelling off ramp to Part 3, which will dive more on why Paul's becoming the Lisan Al-Gaib, is not the same ws most (all?) Hollywood white savior story that has been fed to the masses all these years. Chalamet's portrayal of Paul really nailed this struggle.. from the hysterics in the tent with Lady Jessica in P1 when he shouted at her "You Bene Gesserit's made me a freak!" to him screaming at the Reverend Mother Jessica "that's not hope!".. to him shedding tears - a no-no in Fremen culture - when he knew he had to go south to save the Fremen and said to Chani "I'm afraid I will lose you (if I go South".. Dune is such a great piece of art, both the movie and the books precisely because it makes people think and rethink their beliefs and assumptions. And see..we are only talking about Paul and Chani here... There are a lot of characters in the novel that are just as compelling as these two.. Alia, who is Paul's sister (the fetus who will become Anya Taylor Joy in P3) and ghoul of Duncan Idaho (Jason Mamoa), Princess Irulan, Lady Fenring and Count Fenring and whole slew of other characters in book who will hopefully be introduced in P3.. they all have extremely powerful character arcs too. We can go on for years discussing how each one of them will impact our view on your question whether Paul was a "good" man or just another power hungry mofo...
guy reading the odyssey 2000 years ago: wow circumstances sure will lead you to places. guy reading dune in the 80's: wow circumstances sure will lead you to places. small baby bunny in 2024: i want to eat grass but only the green grass
As someone who has never read the books, I very much had such different takes than you guys. Firstly, I always thought he meant it when he said he will love Chani forever. And at the end, when he is proclaiming himself as Messiah, I could understand that there was peacocking going on. he made a political decision and he realizes this is the only path forward with the highest hopes of protecting everyone he loves so he is sucking it up and playing the part, sure maybe he’s enjoying it but I don’t really get AT ALL that he’s 100% invested 100% happy with it or 100% completely devoid of his humanity anymore. Super interesting how we have such different takes. 🤷🏻♀️
Holding myself back from being too mean but Kelsey talking about taking up two cup holders in the theatre for five minutes but then shushing Garrick bc she was bored with Dune lore was the most Kelsey thing she has ever done (derogatory)
CAN YOU GUYS PLEASE WATCH THE FIRST SEASON ON HAZBIN HOTEL!?!?!? All 8 episodes are the length of one movie. I think you will all enjoy it. It’s on prime! I’ve been following the project for years now and I would love for it to get more views so we can get a second season!!!!! Please I’m literally begging!!!!
I've read too much Royal History, I recognise that, but when Chalamet asks for the hand of the princess, I was to Zendaya like- Don't worry, you can still have him, this is just the political marriage, he still loves you and wants to have you as the side piece.
Just to note: Paul DOES love and view Chani as his wife and equal. The “marriage” with the emperor‘s daughter is merely a contract. Much like how Jessica was Leto’s true love but not wife; to leave the possibility of an alliance through “marriage” open among the houses. But yes, this is the beginning of a holy war that sweeps across the universe and millions are killed in Paul’s name. This is why he didn’t want to go south bc he saw hints of the destruction his actions would have (starving people nightmare). HOWEVER, idk if the film version Chani knows/understands all the above ie how much did Paul actually share with her. Given her reaction, I think at the very least she knows she had been right and he used her people and their beliefs to secure HIS position as emperor and that the fighting was just beginning. It’s why she left. At least…that’s my read
Austin Butler’s accent - sounds EXACTLY like Skarsgård’s Baron and I think it was the wrong choice, bc it WAS a choice. I kept getting thrown thinking it was the Baron’s voice over and it wasn’t. I liked the idea of sounding similar, that makes sense with family and who you spend the most time around (and mimicking those in power) but it felt like a choice coming from that specific character that so desperately wants to be “iconic”.
I doubt you have the time to read DUNE buy y'all need to either listen to the audiobooks or go check out Quinn's Ideas. It will further blow your minds. This is missing much info and for reference, the 80's version is tonally way off. Its weird listening to people's perspectives on the story when its missing so much context but i guess its part of the experience of Dune...
did they just say acotar was the female Dune? NOOOOOO IT'S NOT it's not even close enough to compare lmaooo i was so confused I thought they meant another movie I had never heard of and she said A court of I was laughing way too much. On another note, I knew Garrett was gonna talk about the Andor monologue, it also lives rent free in my mind. You guys take on the movie was so good, it was great learning bits from the books I didn't know
When you drink the water of life you get access to all your ancestors memories which basically means your mind kinda gets consumed by a hive mind. Also he kills 60bil people.
You misunderstood what Paul said to Chani completely. He said he will love Chani forever, because he needs her to understand that what he will do next, ask Irulan's hand in marriage is only for political power, Chani is the one he truly loves.
Thoughts on this. Harkonen makes me think on Finland, because it sounds like a Finnish name (Pojhonen, Hakkinen, Raikonen) What type of accent Bardem was going for? For context, I'm literally from the same country as him, I know the accents and that's nowhere close to any of the Spanish accents.
If the movie hadn’t condensed the timeline of the last have from about 3 years to less than nine months, their first child would have been born and killed by the end fight. I think it was smart of Denis to cut that part.
I believe Paul knew what he had to do so he told Chanie of his undying love before he had to take the princess as his wife. He is forced to put his feelings and his honor into trash to save the planet. Millions will die and he will be blamed but it will be the least amount of death. Everytime he makes decisions to go against his own heart it will become easier to keep doing.
So many L takes here. Paul imo loved Chani, but that's a nuanced take. I can't fathom how anybody could come into dune thinking Paul, from Herbert's perspective would be the hero. The cupholders??? You get one. That's such an asshole take to take both if the seats are designed with one cup holder between each person.
As someone who is a Royal History Nerd, I kinda got that scene better than my husband, because I had that knowledge of how common the Wife vs the Mistress is in history and how some of the Mistresses had a more intimate relationship with the Monarch than the Wife. Those three are basically Charles, Diana and Camilla in Space
GUYS. I love you and the pod but pleaaaase take 5 min to at least google context/facts or do some research for the movies you review. You’re super entertaining but the lack of info sometimes is too much 🫠🤍
Clearly an hour episode is not enough for this film because y'all didn't even mention how Lea "Seduce" Feyd in the Gom Jabbar scene! That one is the horniest! lol
Similar to Zac, went with my husband who didn’t see part 1 and we watched a RUclips summary together 😂!!! And at that point I had a “aha” moment about Paul, too!!! 😮
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I disagree on y’all’s take that Paul lied to Chani that he loves her. He does love her, we spent the half part of the movie of Paul having internal conflict to follow his destiny and BE the Lisan Al Gaib, or follow his heart with Chani and continue following the Fremen way. Even Lady Jessica was like “You are blinded by love”. When he drank the Water of Life, he now could see every possible future. He picked the future where he not only gains victory against the emperor and the Harkonnens but also to make sure everyone he cares about survives the longest. That’s why he told Chani, I will love you for as long as I breathe. Because then he knows he HAS to offer his hand to Princess Irulan. To fulfill the future he wanted.
Came here less than 5min in to say this. Yes! He did love Chani, but he's on a bigger path and can't just do what he wants to do. He does love her.
Exactly. I think this is also conveyed in the look he gives chani as he chooses the other girl
Yea this is exactly what I was thinking and what I will continue to believe lol Noone who read the books comment if we're wrong 😂😂
cut to a couple of years when zendaya becomes timmy’s concubine and partner in genocide
Facts. he even says this in the first movie BEFORE he meets chani. he asks the fremen lady they meet in the first movie that what if he proposes marriage to his daughter in order to achieve peace. meaning Paul already knows that there is also the aspect of duty where he will marry someone he doesn't love to achieve a higher purpose. which is what unfolds in the second movie. so yes, he still loves chain and wasn't using her at all. in fact its IRULAN he's using in order to get the emperors seat.
Guys, he isn’t lying to Chani. His marriage to Irulan is political, but he never touches her. He stays with and has kids with Chani.
That's the book version
@@joshufo9959He fell in love with a girl that he saw 5 minutes ago and while he told her to marry him he was looking at the emparor, because he loved her, really? Chani is literally the girl of his dreams.
@@joshufo9959 And that’s what we’ll be getting with Messiah.
@@joshufo9959the movie is only changing the most fringe choices though. Everything btwn Paul and Chani has been authentic. He’s using Irulan as a pawn and not only will Chani forgive him for it, it will make them stronger because she then realizes he isn’t a messiah for the final time, but her Paul.
The first Dune actually won six Oscar’s including Best Cinematography and Score. It’s safe to say this film is in the running for the Oscars again
There needs to be a big sign in front of this video that says "Dune from the perspective from movie goers and not book readers". You dont "need" to read the book to enjoy the movie, although it can enhance the experience and give additional perspectives in ways that the films cant get into. I can understand the desire to enjoy the movies on their own and to not spoil oneself. For ppl that have only seen the films, they do get a bit right. Even the Chani issue was corrected partway thru the video.
Paul is a bad guy but it’s more complicated. He’s using Princess Irulan NOT Chani. He is however betraying Chani’s trust in him as a way of gaining power.
This.
In a world where most people are conditioned to think in a binary, black or white type of way, Paul ascends to become a type of hero/antihero that is too complex to describe in a 15 minute video.. or a short comment section.
For me, Paul is not so much a hero as he is someone intent to take on power to achieve a purpose. If the purpose is noble then he's a great hero.. but when it becomes destructive then Paul is the baddest mofo ever.
@@10Shun Exactly him leading was a positive when he was helping the fremen as a way to free themselves . However he becomes a more villainous figure when he uses them for his own gain as opposed to acting altruistically for the good of the many.
Yes, him choosing this path is him repeating the biggest reject of his father’s life: not marrying the women he loves and wanting to just keep her as a concubine. Except this is worse because he is marrying the Princess.
I love watching Garrick talk about things he loves lol. I’ve said it before I’ll say it again, I want him to talk about animation more lol.
DO BLUE EYE SAMURAI PLEASEEEEE
man I really enjoyed blue eye samurai but finding out the creator(s) is a zionist ruined it for me 😭
Thank you Garrick for the nuanced and additional info as always
Using two cup holders is the movie theater equivalent of not putting shopping cards where they belong.
I’d say it’s worse. It’s like listening to music on maximum level on the bus
It's a very "that's someone else's problem teehee" viewpoint which is annoying
Kelsey is wrong about the cupholders.PERIOD. That's just being rude and inconsiderate to take both. Love Kelsey though😘
that was fuckin hysterical tho. these guys are funny as shit
@@8301TheJMan fo sho dou
I’m so happy Garrick brought up Attack on Titan at the end! After I saw this movie I turned to my friend and said “so Eren was heavily inspired by Paul right?”
For real! Realizing Paul is essentially a Yeagerist is when I realized that this was NOT a hero's journey lol
Yes!!! The Holy War is just The Rumbling
I finally watched the AOT finale and went and watched Dune pt2. I was thoroughly shocked when I realized how much Paul was like Eren!
As a huge fan of both AoT and Dune, I love when people bring up this comparison!
Also it’s not just a story about Paul being the bad guy- it’s the reluctant messiah trope given form. And it’s better and worse than y’all think: he does love Chani but choosing to defeat the emperor means she will die and he knows that since he knows the future
Omg i got caught up on cup holder debate. I googled it and it says that "Just like dining etiquette, your drink should be on your right side. Use the cup holder to your left and you will probably end up having someone else enjoying your drink."
😂 yeah, who holds the cup with the left hand
@@ednasierra1083 i mean some people are left handed so i understand why some go to the left, but in a crowded theater, please go to the right and don't take both cup holders.
making the aot connection is legendary! also how did y’all not touch on paul’s mom being the daughter of the baron?!?!
Can we hear a little commotion for Kelsey's outfit. Looking ready for a music video with her 90s/2000s girl group
I know this is just a personal preference thing and I’d never tell you guys to change anything about your work, but I do want to say that sometimes watching this as a woman and constantly hearing Kelsey literally say “me no thinkie” when she’s on a podcast specifically about movie discussion and dissection, is hard to hear.
Of course having a bunch of different points of view is the best for driving conversation, but it’s just a thing I’ve noticed happens a lot. Love the show always though 💜
yes omg when she tried to justify taking two cup holders with ‘bc feminism’ i almost threw my phone out the window 💀
And I LOVE that there's a "layman" to the cinematic world.... but sometimes the "I wouldn't like Oppenheimer..(because I'm a girl)" discussions get old. I want to see the mad appriciation for cinema as it transcends age, class, and gender.
Solution, bring another girlie, like Becky, who loves to read the books before watching!...or somone like that!
Tbf, there are plenty of times when she has the best take of the room as well. The boys are also very stuck-in-their-ways in terms of how they see movies, just about different things.
@@nofakk0ie the entire legally blonde episode lol
The Bene Geserit literally has spent 1000s of years making a breeding program to bring forth the Lisan Al Ghaib and it was supposed to be the child of Jessica’s female child by the duke and Austin Butler’s character. But she chose to have a boy. So they were trying to have Paul killed once they realized they couldn’t control him, since they’ve been controlling from behind the scenes across millennia.
HUGE day for annoying people (me)
Glad Zach mentioned the moment where the sound cuts except for Chani's little giggle before the exploion - in a movie full of jaw-dropping awesome scenes, that little moment was actually my favorite
Best sound design ever! The fact that THAT moment stands out! Chef’s kiss. Bc it grounds us viewers into the reality and makes the stakes feel realer 👏🏻🥳 love
FINALLY! A DUNE 2 EP! AS IT WAS WRITTEN!
I dread the day that I encounter someone like Kelsey at the movie theatres...
Literally the last sentence of the book is Jessica telling Chani that Paul loves her despite all the political intrigue that obfuscates it.
Paul fully loves Chani, but he has to suffer a massive heart ache in the next movie to allow his son to save the future from the results of the Fremen holy war. Seeing the necessary future is a bitch for him in the end.
for the movie theater cup debate, typically most theaters have the seats where it tells you the number on the arm of the seat and that that little with the plaque of the number there's a arrow that tells you which cup holder is yours :)
Im 47 mins and didnt hear a single thing about rebbecca or florence. They killed it as well i think rebecca did such a good job at giving an audience somthing to worry about bc she played worried mom very well lol. Also florence getting a more evil hat with each new scene is hilarious and i cant wait to see more of her in the next one! Timotay was amazing dune was my introduction to him hes a great actor no doubt!
It wasn't a lie about him loving Chani. But for political reasons he had to marry Princess Irulan
He isn’t lying to chani , he does love her but because he now sees the future and the path he has to take, he’s willing to hurt her for now because he knows she will come around . He even mentions in the movie that “she will come around” she will eventually come to understand.
I watched this movie in the largest IMAX in the world (Leonberg Germany), and it was truly an experience..
I BEEN WAITING ON THIS ONE 🎉
Also I love Kelsey, but that cup holder take is insane
Love this podcast and your passion! Consider this - I feel like if you had a Dune book reader (and I do mean they have read the 6 Frank Herbert books) amongst you, the conversation would be juicier and present a good contrast between the new adaptations and the original works!
dune 1 won 6 oscars lol
THIS!!! I thought this was their job?
Right? Dune 2 will sweep it in 2025
Love that Garrick mentioned Attack on Titan in the end!! it really is one of the greats
Super nerdy but I just wanted to point out that Feyd-Rautha and Glossu Rabban are not cousins, they’re half brothers (same father, different mother).
6 minutes into the podcast, and I am turning it off! Because I feel like I want to read the book now.
I had NO idea it was a villian origin story. And I AM ABSOLUTELY 100% sold.
Literally no one is good. The whole series (at least the first 4 books) are specifically about the problems with hero worship and how people use religion to justify their own egos. That said, it's still not as simple as that, because these people are terrible, of course, but like everything in the world, it's complicated. "Road to hell/good intentions" and all that
Highly recommend the book, especially the first 3-4! It is a trip
Anti-gav Suspensor Technology, you have the floating light in the first movie, the hunter seeker, the descending Sardaukar soldiers and the Baron. The Baron and the Harkonnen soldiers in the 2nd movie.
the way zach says "denny" instead of "deh-knee"
The way I OBSESSED over this movie the entire week after watching it was unhinged but my god it’s probably the first time a sequel has ever made it into one of my favorite movies of all time
I love you guys and this podcast SO. MUCH. and was so excited to see this episode pop-up in my feed-but this episode was un-listenable, I had to turn it off fifteen minutes in out of frustration. There is a difference between stating something as a matter of opinion and as a matter of fact, and you guys were getting a SHIT ton just completely wrong about the movie/series and espousing it as truth. Gotta fact-check yourselves sometimes and this was a reeeeeal big one you’re gonna need to look back on.
it’s so wild to be hearing all this discussion about the vocab of the series and not even acknowledging that the majority of the words are loan words from arabic lmao
they did say the whole movie was hugely inspired and talked about the middle east though
Not one of you says you now want to read the book. It’s another perspective to be considered.
I’m five minutes in and already so frustrated with the comprehension gaps 😂
I don’t think these people read (other than booktok soft porn apparently)… I have seen a couple of their podcasts before and they were entertaining but this episode was so frustrating as a Dune fan omg
@@worrywirtyeah I wish they brought a dune expert to help with the gaps . I haven’t even read the books but I’ve watched enough videos to know a good amount of Lore. I’m surprised they didn’t do more research lol
Dune 2 really laid out all the context I needed to know as a none book reader. This is my month's favorite
To answer Zach’s question around the 52 minute mark, Paul definitely believed (and it is true) that the path he ends up taking is the only way to avoid universal destruction
I can't watch this yet because I haven't seen the new Dune yet, but just wanted to thank Garrick for the Mr. and Mrs. Smith suggestion from a few episodes ago. Didn't realize it was a thing, so I watched it and really enjoyed it
You guys need to watch it again
Me screaming kwisatz haderach during your intro haha you forgot one!
I know this whole episode was about Dune, but the portion about ACOTAR I want to scream LOL. As I have been reading it, I can just see in my head the series that they could make if they put as much effort of Dune or GOT into the series that I HOPE they create. It is just SO good, the series is just so good, even when it is moving a little slower to build context and information and setting the scene. Kelsey if you Lauren and I got a chance to just sit and chat through this fkn series I'd cry LOL
From what I’ve heard the show is in the works! Hulu is creating it alongside Sarah J Mass, but it’s taking a while
if lasers contact shields in the dune universe everyone dies
Ok but you guys are getting a lot of dune info wrong ☹️
I had to stop fifteen minutes in and run here to the comments because they are getting SO MUCH WRONG and it is driving me INSANE.
The series is endless contradictions and complexities. Paul is the hero, but then he isn’t, he does horrible things, but also prevents worse things, his son does even worse things, but has good reasons for doing them. Still their powers are largely a curse to themselves and humanity. Kind of like Thanos but it makes you think a lot more
The water of life gives you the memories of all your female ancestors if you’re a woman, and Paul as the first man to successfully drink it gets all of his female AND male ancestral memories. He also becomes the most powerful prescient being up to that point. The prescience is more important in this stage in the series but the ancestral memories are talked about more in books 3 and 4
I also agree that Barry Keoghan should be in part 3, what a great actor, he could play either Scytale or Bijaz and kill either role
the harkonens armour does the same job as a stillsuit but also has suspensor's built in. you saw the sadukar using the same tech in the first movie
Love this episode but I do think there are a few book fallacies lol. I’m almost positive that he explains the mechanics of how the ride the worms and why it works (ie they lift some of the scales on the skin to allow sand and spice to get in and this allows the fremen to steer the sandworms and it makes them docile). Dune is one of my favorite novels because there are explanations left and right. Love you guys though! Any other dune heads remember some of these details??
My only complaint is that the ending wrap up was missing. It was not given the weight needed that Paul was ordering the destruction of pre-spice locations and if they were destroyed it would cause a chain reaction and kill all worms on Dune.
The spice would NOT flow.
I’ve watched the original Dune in theaters a million years ago, didn’t read the book. I love Garrick’s perspective.
In the books the time it took to get to the point where he claimed the throne for himself he already had a child with Channi who died before they had two more kids. It took years to get to that point and his sister was already born. Paul makes a point of telling Channi that Irulian on will never know him as a true husband, it's only political. Even Jessica who was never married to Duke Leto tells Channi that they will be remembered as the wives in history because they stood with their men.
the misread on Paul as a villian and his relationship with Chani is crazy to me and I think it’s because of Zendaya’s acting and how Chani is written to be SO obstinate and unsupportive. it’s complicated but her character’s personality/behavior was reaaallllyyyy lost
Kelsy snacks would get chucked on the floor, but then again ww audacity is a thing so not surprised she will take someone else's space.
The stunt coordinator talked on a German RUclips chanel (Kino Plus) about the sandworm riding scene. That scene alone took 2 months to shoot. I could not believe my ears when I heard that. 😯
Denis did a vanity fair breakdown of the scene too! Talks about all of the stuff they had to build.
I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!!!!!!
If yall read the books or did any research at all, you’d learn that Paul truly loves chani
I really like the fact that you guys are reconsidering whether Paul really loves Chani or just simply using her. In the book, Chani's character was more supportive of Paul's transformation to the Mahdi and Paul was portrayed to be much more loving of Chani. However, it also left no doubt that Paul was intent on becoming the Lisan Al-Gaib after his visions failed to tell him of the Harkonnen's attack on Sietch Tabr which cost the life of their son Leto (the first one.. there will be a second but that's a longer story). So book-wise, Paul was very much in love with Chani but he "had to" become the Lisan Al Gaib to continue to protect his family and the Fremen..and assume whatever role will follow after.
In a way, the movie adaptation of Chani was more effective in drawing in the audience to the narrative that Paul really is a bad, bad mofo. One who could sacrifice everything he values for his lust for revenge and power. Chani's depiction as a cynical lover, who felt the deepest betrayal - as she should - at the end of the movie, makes for a more compelling off ramp to Part 3, which will dive more on why Paul's becoming the Lisan Al-Gaib, is not the same ws most (all?) Hollywood white savior story that has been fed to the masses all these years. Chalamet's portrayal of Paul really nailed this struggle.. from the hysterics in the tent with Lady Jessica in P1 when he shouted at her "You Bene Gesserit's made me a freak!" to him screaming at the Reverend Mother Jessica "that's not hope!".. to him shedding tears - a no-no in Fremen culture - when he knew he had to go south to save the Fremen and said to Chani "I'm afraid I will lose you (if I go South"..
Dune is such a great piece of art, both the movie and the books precisely because it makes people think and rethink their beliefs and assumptions. And see..we are only talking about Paul and Chani here... There are a lot of characters in the novel that are just as compelling as these two.. Alia, who is Paul's sister (the fetus who will become Anya Taylor Joy in P3) and ghoul of Duncan Idaho (Jason Mamoa), Princess Irulan, Lady Fenring and Count Fenring and whole slew of other characters in book who will hopefully be introduced in P3.. they all have extremely powerful character arcs too. We can go on for years discussing how each one of them will impact our view on your question whether Paul was a "good" man or just another power hungry mofo...
guy reading the odyssey 2000 years ago: wow circumstances sure will lead you to places.
guy reading dune in the 80's: wow circumstances sure will lead you to places.
small baby bunny in 2024: i want to eat grass but only the green grass
Is Timothy NOT in every movie? He is comes up every single episode
As someone who has never read the books, I very much had such different takes than you guys. Firstly, I always thought he meant it when he said he will love Chani forever. And at the end, when he is proclaiming himself as Messiah, I could understand that there was peacocking going on. he made a political decision and he realizes this is the only path forward with the highest hopes of protecting everyone he loves so he is sucking it up and playing the part, sure maybe he’s enjoying it but I don’t really get AT ALL that he’s 100% invested 100% happy with it or 100% completely devoid of his humanity anymore. Super interesting how we have such different takes. 🤷🏻♀️
Rainy watch 1. It shows how Paul knows Chani before they meet. It also shows fathers heart. He expects nothing but Paul to be happy.
But mother spends her life getting him ready for these battles.
Y’all-Oppenheimer is a Dune 2 prequel
I saw the comment section and found about yall saying "paul lied to chani"??
not watching this video. 😂😂
y'all don't understand the hype I have for these films as a book fan!!!
The intro had me dying laughing 😂😂😂
Does anyone know if Garrick has another podcast talking about movies?
Holding myself back from being too mean but Kelsey talking about taking up two cup holders in the theatre for five minutes but then shushing Garrick bc she was bored with Dune lore was the most Kelsey thing she has ever done (derogatory)
CAN YOU GUYS PLEASE WATCH THE FIRST SEASON ON HAZBIN HOTEL!?!?!? All 8 episodes are the length of one movie. I think you will all enjoy it. It’s on prime! I’ve been following the project for years now and I would love for it to get more views so we can get a second season!!!!! Please I’m literally begging!!!!
❤
I've read too much Royal History, I recognise that, but when Chalamet asks for the hand of the princess, I was to Zendaya like- Don't worry, you can still have him, this is just the political marriage, he still loves you and wants to have you as the side piece.
Just to note: Paul DOES love and view Chani as his wife and equal. The “marriage” with the emperor‘s daughter is merely a contract. Much like how Jessica was Leto’s true love but not wife; to leave the possibility of an alliance through “marriage” open among the houses.
But yes, this is the beginning of a holy war that sweeps across the universe and millions are killed in Paul’s name. This is why he didn’t want to go south bc he saw hints of the destruction his actions would have (starving people nightmare).
HOWEVER, idk if the film version Chani knows/understands all the above ie how much did Paul actually share with her. Given her reaction, I think at the very least she knows she had been right and he used her people and their beliefs to secure HIS position as emperor and that the fighting was just beginning. It’s why she left. At least…that’s my read
“Only pleasure remains”
If these three are not absolutely obsessed with Austin’s Feyd Rautha I’m gonna be so disappointed
😈 🖤 🔥
Austin Butler’s accent - sounds EXACTLY like Skarsgård’s Baron and I think it was the wrong choice, bc it WAS a choice. I kept getting thrown thinking it was the Baron’s voice over and it wasn’t. I liked the idea of sounding similar, that makes sense with family and who you spend the most time around (and mimicking those in power) but it felt like a choice coming from that specific character that so desperately wants to be “iconic”.
I doubt you have the time to read DUNE buy y'all need to either listen to the audiobooks or go check out Quinn's Ideas. It will further blow your minds.
This is missing much info and for reference, the 80's version is tonally way off. Its weird listening to people's perspectives on the story when its missing so much context but i guess its part of the experience of Dune...
You can love someone and still be using them.
i think we can all agree that we learned a lot.
okay so first you said coriolanus and lucy gray didn’t love each other and now paul lied about his feelings. love confession isn’t always subtle tho…
did they just say acotar was the female Dune? NOOOOOO IT'S NOT it's not even close enough to compare lmaooo i was so confused I thought they meant another movie I had never heard of and she said A court of I was laughing way too much. On another note, I knew Garrett was gonna talk about the Andor monologue, it also lives rent free in my mind. You guys take on the movie was so good, it was great learning bits from the books I didn't know
When you drink the water of life you get access to all your ancestors memories which basically means your mind kinda gets consumed by a hive mind.
Also he kills 60bil people.
Calling something too "thinky" is a real big insult to the writers, sorry they couldn't think on your level. Rain Rain go away!!!
You misunderstood what Paul said to Chani completely. He said he will love Chani forever, because he needs her to understand that what he will do next, ask Irulan's hand in marriage is only for political power, Chani is the one he truly loves.
Thoughts on this.
Harkonen makes me think on Finland, because it sounds like a Finnish name (Pojhonen, Hakkinen, Raikonen)
What type of accent Bardem was going for? For context, I'm literally from the same country as him, I know the accents and that's nowhere close to any of the Spanish accents.
My prediction is zendaya’s character is pregnant, there’s going to be a time skip and the children fight to the death.
If the movie hadn’t condensed the timeline of the last have from about 3 years to less than nine months, their first child would have been born and killed by the end fight. I think it was smart of Denis to cut that part.
33:44 couldn’t not see the bald cap tho
His head was slightly out of shaped bc bald cap
Kelsey looks so 90s retro, except the shoes ❤❤❤
Thank you 🙏 🙏🙏
I hope y’all talk about Zendaya new movie challengers.
Paul is absolutely a Yeagerist
You get one cup holder, how selfish
I believe Paul knew what he had to do so he told Chanie of his undying love before he had to take the princess as his wife. He is forced to put his feelings and his honor into trash to save the planet. Millions will die and he will be blamed but it will be the least amount of death. Everytime he makes decisions to go against his own heart it will become easier to keep doing.
Paul loves Chani i dont care what yall think.
So many L takes here. Paul imo loved Chani, but that's a nuanced take. I can't fathom how anybody could come into dune thinking Paul, from Herbert's perspective would be the hero. The cupholders??? You get one. That's such an asshole take to take both if the seats are designed with one cup holder between each person.
As someone who is a Royal History Nerd, I kinda got that scene better than my husband, because I had that knowledge of how common the Wife vs the Mistress is in history and how some of the Mistresses had a more intimate relationship with the Monarch than the Wife. Those three are basically Charles, Diana and Camilla in Space
Dune part 1 won many Oscars guys lol
Who’s Dylan Skarsgård? Do you mean Stellan Skarsgård?
GUYS. I love you and the pod but pleaaaase take 5 min to at least google context/facts or do some research for the movies you review. You’re super entertaining but the lack of info sometimes is too much 🫠🤍
Clearly an hour episode is not enough for this film because y'all didn't even mention how Lea "Seduce" Feyd in the Gom Jabbar scene! That one is the horniest! lol
They are wrong on few things but they have the right spirit.
Oh my god, this episode had me dying when the conversation about cup holders came up. Maybe my favorite episode of Guilty Pleasures ever????
Please do The Bodyguard. 🙏🏾Whitney Houston and Kevin Costner.
Similar to Zac, went with my husband who didn’t see part 1 and we watched a RUclips summary together 😂!!! And at that point I had a “aha” moment about Paul, too!!! 😮
The first one literally has Chani say “who will our next oppressors be”, it cuts to the title card and then Paul. It’s not a white savior thing.