Tanks usually don't oneshot you but instead CC you and kill you before you get to move, which feels indistinguishable from being oneshot, as after you've been hit by the initial ability, there is no counterplay. Amumu q into R into second Q is a fun one where you're stunned for 5 seconds and die at the end of it
It feels terrible indeed,what’s worse is that most of the time,you can’t dodge the initial ability consistently(tahm autos,ammumu ult flash,malph has a good ult but can be dodged if you have flash and expect it,nautilus whole kit lol,skarner etc.).It’s different when illaoi kills you because you can at least move or try to outplay it.
I also don't think there's a difference to be distinguished. At every level and really untill the adc has three items at every level malph is killing them. Even without engaging with ult. His q is always gonna give him gap close to stay on them, plus his attack speed slow.
I don't understand August's arguments for tanks 1-shotting. Tanks doing a lot of burst damage and killing over a period of 5 seconds isn't a whole lot of different from old Kassadin/Leblanc/Talon silencing you and killing you with a full combo in 1-2 seconds, and their silences were purposely removed because those silences were functionally stuns with the window those champions had to deal their damage. Tanks have a lot of CC by design, and if they do a lot of damage then they functionally 1-shot their targets by virtue of their targets being unable to respond to their targets. It's no different from a ToD combo in a fighting game, it doesn't matter whether the combo takes 20 seconds to execute of 90 second to execute, the combo still kills while the opponent can't do anything. More importantly, I haven't played League in several years, but I have to wonder based on other people's comments I see in clips from August's streams: why are tanks dealing meaningful damage while building full tank? Why doesn't Riot just give these tanks diver/juggernaut/battle mage builds (depending on the tank) that allow them to build a mix of durability and either AD/AP so they can get their damage from damage items and durability from durability items? That would solve all the problems Riot wanted to solve with tanks being unbalanceable for pro while also creating more meaningful build options for players and allowing pros to have true tanks while keeping those champions balanced for lower levels.
Tanks don't actually one-shot ADCs. The "tanks" that can do that are juggernauts, or they're super fed, or they're building some amount of damage. If real tanks don't do significant damage to ADCs, then they will lose duel to ADCs, and they'll be basically ignorable in team fights because they can't kill the ADC. And then why even play a tank in solo queue at all, why not just play Vayne top and have a Leona or Ashe to initiate fights. I know people will make an argument saying "tanks should cc the ADC and be a threat that way" but the problem there is that 1) that's WILDLY more effective at high MMR than low MMR, leading to balance problems and making tanks non-viable outside of high MMR. Also 2) most people don't want to play cc bot tanks. Also 3) most ADCs will complain if tanks actually can chain-cc them and then they get killed by other enemy teammates (getting chain cc'd and killed is a very frustrating experience, it's actually even more frustrating than just getting killed directly). As for the "what's the point of assassins when even tanks can kill ADCs over a span of five seconds without the ADC being able to stop that" argument: teammates can quite easily disrupt a tank killing an ADC. And yes that does mean that the ADC loses 1 vs 1 to the enemy toplaner tank, and I think that's fine. ADCs are a teamfighting class after all. If tanks lose the 1 vs 1 duel to ADCs, they're probably not viable outside of high MMR.
The reason they've said in the past was that when they tried creating items like that, champs like Ekko and Fizz would take them and become super tanky assassins. It was really hard to make tanky AP items that were meant for tanks that didn't get abused by hyper-mobile assassins instead. But there is currently an AP item that tanks build very often, Rift Maker, which gives AP based on your max HP. That item is bought by champs like Zac and Tahm Kench and actually makes them do mage-level amounts of damage, but because they're melee unlike mages, and immobile unlike assassins, they still have to be (and are) super tanky to function. So you get things like a Tahm Kench who can kill an ADC with 3 autos+R+Q, or Zac who can kill with E+Q+R+W, both in like 3 seconds or so, while ccing you for much of the duration, and still having like 5k health. As for AD items, that's already the case, AD tanks (which there aren't many of) do build thinks like Titanic Hydra sometimes (champs like Skarner and Sion), but again, tanks can't function unless they're super tanky on top of the damage they have, so they just get to have 5k hp AND the damage, when you give tanks damage items. If anything, I think tanks having access to these damage items is exactly what makes them frustrating to play against.
@@lightworker2956 Tanks should lose duels to ADCs because ADCs take a lot of risks to build roughly full damage and their damage profile (sustained AA damage) is specifically designed to counter tanks. Furthermore, tanks are a teamfighting class and primarily a utility-focused class like enchanters, and should make tradeoffs in their ability to 1v1 opponents (including ADCs) to be a reasonable champion for players. However, my main argument is that building full tank shouldn't be recommended for 95% of the playerbase (which I assume is all but the high-level playerbase that understands how to play and use tanks). Tanks shouldn't deal meaningful damage if they build full tank, BUT they should deal meaningful damage if they build AP or AD (depending on the champion) at the expense of some durability (but not much) and recommend AP/AD items in their builds. This means that high-level players get their actual tanks while everyone else gets to play them as divers/juggernauts/battle mages (depending on the tank's damage profile) and have a good time with them.
Actives are really interesting because I see a lot of like, famous I guess, actives (shielding your team as Leona with locket, hitting hourglass to save yourself) that everyone uses and knows to use, but if there's ever an active that isn't that popular I'll see lots of players build the item because a website told them to, then never actually use the active component.
@@gruncleiroh5525 This is actually a reason why I avoided looking up meta builds online back when I played League. I preferred making build decisions around what I wanted for my build and exploring what builds were possible within the game's systems rather than copying a build I saw online without understanding why it was good, or even if it was good at my skill level.
@@thegloriousryan8981 That may be because you've played much more than your friends have. (Although it's also possible that you're just better at the game than they are, or you're playing simpler characters). The problem is that people with 30k hours in league need complex designs to keep things fun, while new players need simple designs.
@@lightworker2956 It's definitely a difference in objective. Of the people I play with who have similar time played to me, one of them is an adc main who focuses WAY more on positioning and team play (even joined their college's esports team for a bit), the other plays the game incredibly casually, and only progresses in the game through occasionally trying new characters. Regardless, I do think the solution here is honestly more item variety, since a lot of the frustration with active items I feel comes from "I want an AP armor item and zhonyas is the only option", or "I want a fighter tank shred item and BORK and black cleaver are the only options". If there were more active items AND passive items in the game, I feel like this problem would be significantly lessened, as the skill expression would be much more opt in, allowing people who don't want to engage with it to focus on other parts of their gameplay, while people who are ready for that level of engagement get rewarded for doing so.
i mean they could probably reuse a bunch of systems and augments from arena. Sure it would be a major update if for all characters but they could also just make a temporary game mode to test it for a limited number of champs
@MiniBinguss again, a sickening amount of work. they cancelled overwatch 2 not because of the pve/mmo work but because skill trees were so difficult to create and balance for the kits they’d designed. now picture caitlyn with a +25 range mod or a “your abilities can crit” mod or a “headshots reload 1 or 2 bullets faster mod”, she’s either OP or you’ve done this to every character and brought back mythic era stats and damage dota can have skill trees because items there give barely any damage relative to exp via skill points and skill tree upgrades, which is just unlike league at this point
@@gggremlin that is NOT why they cancelled ow2, though they might like to say that it was. speaking of blizzard, HotS had this system. And it was balanced, although ofc there were meta choices. But yeah it's more work to shift the system to that when it wasn't designed with that in mind in the first place.
Counterargument for Galeforce not needing a lockout: We mustn't forget that it didn't just lock out ADCs buying it and other items, but other classes aswell. ADC items are notorious for being abused by other classes, so if the likes of Darius could build Galeforce after their core items, it would probably be pretty bad and kind of defeat the entire purpose of the item itself.
Make it for ranged only it would make sense as well bcs galeforce is a bow so that is an ez fix and it being ad item would exclude mages as well the only champion i can see that can abuse it is LeBlanc.
@@skelet8337in dota 2 theres a item called dragon lance it gives you 150 extra range BUT ranged only so as a melee you cant use the range so no one buys it. Lol could implement more stuff like this in concept to prevent potential abuse from champs that dont build for example adc items.
Runes are also disproportionately effective for champs. Some champs like Gwen abuse conqueror insanely well but other champs who are forced to take conq cuz they have no better options still can’t really use the rune that well (Irelia, Samira)
honestly before i got to play with it I was really surprised that Lethal tempo didn't take over for Irelia. And then I played it and realise... yeah, no that is just doing nothing worthwile for this champ.
I love the people who to this day compare stridebreaker dash and galeforce dash, as if darius with a dash and jinx with a dash are the same level of horseshit.
Oh no the class that gets hard countered by kitting gets a short dash to close the gap vs a very fast and position reliant class gets an even bigger dash theres a clear difference.
@Junomybeloved darius stridebreaker > e was 875 range auto win tool. If you dont see a problem with that then idk what to tell you, break into silver then come back and talk. Also, adcs fast? They have the lowest average ms in the game, the least ms steroids in the game and the second lowest number of dashes. Where is all this mobility you are crying about? You're just blatantly lying to yourself at this point.
@@Junomybeloved dont even try to argue with this brainded, the dude main caitlyn and want adc auto range to have the longest range in the game so no abilities with 20sec cd can reach them
Ornn landing semi global ult and then being able to knock you up into one rotation bursting you from full all while you’re cc’ed. The cc is uncleanseable because all of it is knock ups too
@ his ult is over 2000 units long. His ult slows into knock up. He catches up and q then e and knocks you up again. He w and auto and you die and if you’re not dead then your knocked up again and he’s still full health and you have no health. Plus good luck auto attacking him because if you do, thornmail will finish you off
If you get hit by the extremely visible, extremely slow moving projectile from 2000 units away that is your fault. That's not a problem with ornn that's a problem with you
@@JacobHeaton-nq8yzit comes from max range and slows doesn’t it? So idk how you can avoid it sometimes when your flash is down. I feel like most of the time I “dodge” it, is only because orn missed more than me dodging
I feel like runes can make characters too complete, if you're tanky and do big damage baseline, but youre not fast then you can just take phase rush and now you have all three. If you're fast and do big dam baseline, but you're not tanky, you can pick up grasp and now again you have all three.
except that you still need to stack the grasp. The worst type runes are actually the ones that don't require to play in a specific way like sustain runes for example Also it is inexact to say that characters can get too complete bc many characters only have one strength (take Xerath/Lux for example. They only have dmg and range. No tankiness, no movement) and if you try to get an all-round build instead of fully investing on 1 aspect you'll just have a mediocre build
@guilhemp1383 i think it's inexact to say that itd work on every character, but when it does work, like when garen takes phase rush, or akali/kat take grasp, those champs do feel like you can't exploit the weaknesses they would usually have.
@@OG_ALviK he does need to full combo a squishy though. I play adcs and if Zed ults me, if I can dodge all his Qs and at least 1-2 E's, I can probably live.
@@etherealcat6521 DId you also know that if you dodge everything you can also beat faker! And if my grandma had wheels, she would've been a bike! Of course i know that if you dodge skillshots it's gonna take longer to kill a squishy. Thanks sherlock! Fact is, most assassins can output two damage spells and an auto attack in a single istance "onetapping". And that damage alone is MORE than enough to kill every squishy. All things bein equal.
well talking about cool items that would just need a bit of touching, getting rid of the slow and active from hextech gunblade could be a solution to bring it back to the game
I still to this day play heroes of the storm every once in a while because the talent system is so cool. I would actually love it if we did away with runes in favor of talents as like a season update. Preferably you can choose them in game, I'd prefer if we were able to just get rid of big pre game choices beyond choosing your summoner spells. That said, having a "rune" page that are just talents unique to each character would be fine too. Like imagine if you could make Ori's ball give attack speed or something like that to the person it's attached to, or Ashe could get 5 50% on hit effects instead of just one per auto during her Q or cool things like that. Interesting build decisions would be so much more prevalent if they did it right. Make leblanc's q silence again but she doesn't get the detonation damage type deal. A TALENT THAT BASICALLY REVERTS DIANA REWORK. Okay I'm 100% in. A Talent that you choose for Kayle to stay melee longer but get her true damage back. The possibilities are endless.
whats there to say? the item single handedly flipflopped historic matchups such as kayle countering garen/sett but now stridebreaker garen/sett hard counter kayle it was as game warping of an item as you really get
On the tank thing, malphite is notably an exception. Imo, he is just really, really poorly designed. The big thing that leads to that is the rather low amount of utility for what should be a "tank". Aside from his R, he has a slow which isnt anything to write home about and he has his AS slow. AS slow isnt as valuable these days as it used to be(except, of course, in 1v1s). And the big problem with his AS slow is that its melee range. Nasus' Wither is a much better ability, frustrating as it may be, due to being both ranged and also VERY strong, its almost a disarm. That leaves Malph R which is just supremely overtuned. Its very fast, almost undodgeable on reaction and even if you react, chances are that anything but Flash will fail. It also deals extremely high damage compared to similar engange Rs. And aside from that, Malph is designed to be a hard counter - which is pretty evident looking at how lopsided his lane matchups are. Stacks armor, slows AS and can poke you for "free" until you are in burst range, basically unfightable for a swathe of champions. Being this hard-countery means that you cannot easily buff his base kit, round him out a little bitr, as he would then just be a "good champ" that also autowins numerous matchups at little cost. Heck, remember when malph was overtuned and he was a solid blind pick? A lot of champs basically became unviable due to that. So yeah, in short: Malphs kit sucks for a tank, so the R has a massive power budget. He is also a pure hard-counter champ, which means you cannot easily align power to his base kit.
I mean everyone has flash and that's considered ok. There is absolutely a balance point where "second flash" would ve acceptable. The question would be working out just how much gold second flash would be worth
It definitely would have to have the damage part removed I think, and I also feel it would be healthier to make it shorter range with a lower cooldown(30 seconds, and like vayne tumble range).
I play ARAM and tanks always have most damage in the team, 90% of games. Then what's the point of adcs if you just pick tank and shred everyone more efficiently without worrying about dying in a milisecond
Tanks aren't the ones overtuned in aram. It's heartsteel, because you can constantly stack it, and a ton of other champs that are not tanks also become unkillable if they can stack it enough. Heartsteel should be removed from aram and the tank peoblem would go away.
What a terrible take. Gale-force is essentially an extra flash for adcs that cannot position well, there is a reason why these long range dashes (gale force and prowlers) were both removed. Bad ADC's relied on it like a crutch since it was a 90 second CD, and it made playing top lane champions who already couldn't realistically gap close even less playable. Comparing it to something like protobelt is WILD considering the difference in range. If they want to make AD protobelt, thats fine. But don't act like galeforce is anywhere even comparable to any other item in the game lmao.
So strange how it's always the ADC mains complaining about tanks. Can you imagine if any other class of champions had a 95% playrate in a lane, and those players complained as much as ADC mains do? The entitlement is unreal.
Can you imagine any other class being told they are only allowed to ever be played on one role, and any time they even THINK about leaving that one role they will gutt/rework the champion, and desteoy their classes entire item set, just to he safe?
The thing about galeforce is that the champs that abuse it the most are mostly juggernauts, just like with stridebreaker and prowlers claw. Especially garen would love galeforce returning.
i like the idea of a ranged only lockout like runaan, plus making gale force a pure zeal item with 0 ad, a bunch of as and ms, and then a no damage missile dash on active with a reasonable cooldown
could make it range only. but then riot cant use the windshitters/tryndamere as an excuse as to why the item needs a 8 minute cooldown on its active and 46% gold efficiency.
literally no juggernaut abuses or abused galeforce what the are you smoking????? they all build HP on almost every item except eclipse. You must have lost to youtubers making yt videos or watched too much zwag.
@RiptidexRiltreks if you dont think current garen isnt going to swap out his second item phantom dancer, for galeforce, then im sorry, but you're delusional. Need i remind people garen was 50% of the reason stridebreaker justifiably lost its dash.
I personally think league would be 100% a better game if it deleted the item system and replaced it with hero specific items with more personalised and interesting effects (aka talents) The reality is, the ability for every character to buy every item has been limiting design space for a really long time. every cool item is eventually broken on someone, and to prevent characters from buying outside their designed strengths and weaknesses, everything needs to be sanded down to a glorified stat stick. Giving personalised items per character would allow on the fly build diversity, while still allowing the iron grip that league devs want over the character design and role of a champion. Compare this to dota, where any character can buy anything. A character like Ursa has huge damage, but is kiteable, and has bad disable. So, he can buy Blink, BKB and Basher to completely remove those problems. This is intended and encouraged. League clearly doesnt want items to be this impactful to characters identity, which is fine and I respect, but as a result basically nothing can be impactful.. at all. because what is a cool tech on one character could completely remove the weaknesses of another.
@francescotrinci6405 realistically it would be a lot of similar stuff. theres no reason that lux and ahri can't both be offered luden's echo, but someone like Sion or w/e doesn't have it available.
Two things instantly problematic. 1) Why are ADCs sacrificing in itemization all the time but tanks dont have to. They already build items that have everything and they do dmg without buying dmg. That is just bad design 2)Again why is ADC always balanced around T1 lvl of communication peel and mechanics and no other class is.
I feel like for number 2, its mainly because of how binary marksmen have sort of been designed as much as some kits have nuance around it, they are basically ranged hyper damage autoattackers that have the most highest damage potencial in the entire game, and thus to balance that out, they often are very squishy and their tools when mispositioned are often limited in comparison to other classes. Because of this, this leans much more heavily into pro play where such mispositions arent nearly as constant to happen, on top of having extremely high damage potencial from everyone else in the team, and thus are sort of balanced around pro play to a degree with exceptions. As to why they are doing this? Its probably becuase they are very fundamental in the dynamic of teams in League in general and pro play plays an important role to the reflection of League as a whole (Minus the whole toxic game with unfun stuff on it).
Because its easier to sacrifice 20% of players in every game for the enjoyment of everyone else rather than actually put real effort into balancing the game. Its just easier to balance a 4v4+extra minions than it is to balance a 5v5 team game.
For #2: Because otherwise you get what we nearly got at worlds with 3 adcs every game in top mid and bot lane. They've been trying to make it better, by making lower range adc's with more agency, such as kai'sa, samira, samira 2, zeri, and akshan, but ultimately that's the most they can do without making non-adc's go bot, which the playerbase doesn't like either.
Zac is sort of an exception, and I think a lot of his frustration comes from a combination of his high damage and his lack of visual clarity in how he's doing it with his w.
Also Tahm Kench with Heartsteel and Rift Maker still being probably the tankiest champ in the game save Alistar with ult, and still 1 shotting you. The champ feels disgusting every time I play him.
Name them specifically. I don't really think there really are tanks around that do that unless as stated, you're a very squishy ADC or they are extremely fed
@@navadax4541 they would call those champs differently like Juggernaut/Bruiser/Tanky/Beefy whatever, but If champ have 5k hp and building tank - he is a tank
@@TopFlightSecurityGuard If we're being this pedantic and extreme, you could make the argument that Yuumi can 1 shot if she's far enough ahead and the enemy are far enough behind. My point was obviously that most tanks can't one tap while building full tank outside of strange circumstances, and I don't believe you're too stupid to understand that's clearly what I meant, but you can pretend otherwise if you just want to be weird about it.
Tanks are consistently in first place for damage in a team. I recently had a damage record on Caitlyn for the month something like 90k, but in the same game the enemy Ksanthe did 110k damage! At the same time he was in first place in all parameters. Damage dealt, damage taken, damage prevented. And yes this shit kills as fast as ZED!
The thing to remember tho is that raw damage numbers can be misleading, if the ksante spends 40 minute trading with a mundo or chogath those damage numbers can become inflated very quickly
@@connerair3520 I know, but that's not the case. In this game, he did that damage by killing everyone on my team. To add another layer of insanity. I was the only AD on the team and that didn't stop Ksanthe from building only armor items and 1v 4 fights against 4 mage damage characters. ( Malphite, Lux, Amumu, Soraka). That was before the netfs, but still. This shit has existed in the game for months!
@@Airmez Are you out of your mind? Everyone's playing Tanks now. Look at what the best players on your server are playing. Zacks, Maokai, Ksanthe, Skarners and shit like that. Riot removed both possibilities for ADC to deal increased damage to tanks, weakened Lethal Tempo, weakened Blade of the Ruined King (especially for ADC) removed both runes that allowed bruisers to have extra tenacity, and weakened the tenacity boots too.
I read some comments and I think dude! Some people never played a mage( who doesn't build health like Vlad) or ADC. If you are Zoe orianna xayah or jinx it doesn't matter if you are playing against a tank or mage or support. Everything can kill you before you have enough time to react. Yeah I know it isn't always the case but come on! At least it's true 40% of the time and 40% it's a lot
And for people who want to say oh range oh mispositioned oh skill issues. I played both ADC and ADC killers. It may be fair but it's not fun that jhin should play perfectly but some heroes like sylas irelia Jax yone Katarina kill you if they just hit one ability. My favorite toplaner is Jax. Jax press e then q and boom! I killed an ADC. It's not fun. It's not fun The enemy Ashe should move like faker but I as Dr Mundo use r and right click Ashe and ashe die.
@@samanoskeitachi9436 speak for yourself because there's a ton of ADC players that love being the glass canon that can kill everything but has a high mechanical barrier to entry. It's why Akali Yasuo Yone Jinx KaiSa are all really popular champs
@@nixsnowsong6732 the range argument died the day we put camille in the game. also there are now ZERO melee champions that xayah actually has the range advantage against. not a single one. not even udyr anymore.
@@einjharrelraca Then you're not using your range correctly. Frankly most of playing range is KNOWING where characters are. If I know where a Camille is I'm never letting them jump on me. It's about having the mental stack to track high threat targets through fog of war. Like it or not but the advantage of range is critically strong even in modern league. Also for common examples it's important to know how to outplay the predictable engages, use your own outplay tools like Xayah R, Vayne Q/E, Ezreal E to disrupt their attempt to get onto you. The majority of ADCs and mages have the tools necessary to mitigate being jumped.
to this day i cannot understand why riot try to make champions to fit into specific "class" categories instead of just making champs with cool concepts as their baseline and letting players use them as they see fit. i find it such a cope when he and other rioters talk about role-problematic champs
I missed galeforce so much. I used to be a top/ADC player but after they removed it I stopped playing ADC. All of the ADC that I play use galeforce and when yasou yone Katarina and ambesa have 124 dash they deleted galeforce because ADCs shouldn't have dash! It's completely stupid .
All those bruisers don’t have consistent point n click damage. Adc’s arent supposed to have dashes to makeup for mispositioning, they’re supposed to not misposition to begin with
@@ssj9devil I know but it's true when yone or ambesa don't catch me with a super long range ability. If you give some classes an ability to catch you from long range you should give other classes something to dash to dodge. I don't want to explain how 80% of ADCs should use flash or a really important ability to escape from irelia with unmissable ult and put and click q . I'm playing top and I know how easy it is to catch an ADC.
@@samanoskeitachi9436 I mean absolutely but that’s the nature of it. Frail piece of paper fights a bulky pair of scissors, I expect ribbons to fly. Playing top lane adc is for those that are better than their opponents and have the patience to afk farm when needed and outplay their opponents nuts when it’s possible. Itelia ult is a skill shot, but even so most of the time adc’s should be with their supports that compliment their damage with peel. The abilities that can catch you out at range tend to give you more time to react and out footsie it…. Except for ambessa I think that’s basically a blink if you’re all the back of the line she sends out
Champs that arent tanks or bruisers should be locked out of tank items. Champs that arent assassins should be locked out of assassin items. Champs that arent adcs should be locked out of adc items. Etc Lanes should be locked to classes like overwatch. If you play top you should play a tank or bruiser. If you play bot you should be forced to play an adc. Support should be forced to play a support. Ridiculous that an adc can go top or mid. Or have a mage support bot lane in place of an adc.
I don't see how this solves anything. Champions aren't building outside of their item classes, Riot balances to make sure it stays that way, so they basically already do lock out items for classes that aren't meant to build them.
@@Sinzari Plenty of champs and players build outside of their default. Prevents trolls, prevents adcs having assassin items, prevents tanks having damage items. What dont you get?
@@omega4223 Nah, ive just seen vayne, teemo, gwen, syals, yone, yas, akali in top, adcs mid, ap mages bot, cho and galio bot lane, Dual ADC lanes etc. I think its ridiculous to assert that league is a skill based game when it has fundamentally been designed around a class based system, like overwatch yet specific roles that each lane and class are supposed to play are optional. Its like designing cars and roads but driving on the road is optional. Go for it boys, drive on the foot path, go where ever you want. How many times have people troll picked their champ because they didnt get the role they wanted and you see Yummi top or JG. They fight so hard to nerf funneling strats but wont prevent players from trolling. They harp on about how toxicity is harming the game yet chat monitoring is all they do... How many times have you lost a game because you didnt have a tank or an ADC, couldnt peel your squishy team mates etc. It takes 2m of thought to realize LOL is a game of half implemented systems and Riot wont do much else than make sure players keep coming back. The only place off meta builds should be used is ARAM. Wanna go tank veigar in aram? Go for it. But how do you balance 160 champs and the item system EFFECTIVELY unless you lock items to champions and lock champion classes to roles.
@@Artemis0567 Bro you're delusional if you think locking items to classes will prevent trolls. And off meta builds promote fun and diversity, a Volibear building AP is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's not like it's a balance problem, because off meta builds aren't stronger than meta builds, by definition.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Tanks usually don't oneshot you but instead CC you and kill you before you get to move, which feels indistinguishable from being oneshot, as after you've been hit by the initial ability, there is no counterplay.
Amumu q into R into second Q is a fun one where you're stunned for 5 seconds and die at the end of it
Amumu is a crazy one because he can one combo kill even some bruisers while being extremely tanky.
It feels terrible indeed,what’s worse is that most of the time,you can’t dodge the initial ability consistently(tahm autos,ammumu ult flash,malph has a good ult but can be dodged if you have flash and expect it,nautilus whole kit lol,skarner etc.).It’s different when illaoi kills you because you can at least move or try to outplay it.
I also don't think there's a difference to be distinguished. At every level and really untill the adc has three items at every level malph is killing them. Even without engaging with ult. His q is always gonna give him gap close to stay on them, plus his attack speed slow.
@@TheNewblade1 the adc does in fact not start winning 1v1s against Malphite at 3 items except maybe in some special cases
So you die if a champion spends a 5 min and 2.5m cool down after which he turns into a walking ward for his team
I don't understand August's arguments for tanks 1-shotting.
Tanks doing a lot of burst damage and killing over a period of 5 seconds isn't a whole lot of different from old Kassadin/Leblanc/Talon silencing you and killing you with a full combo in 1-2 seconds, and their silences were purposely removed because those silences were functionally stuns with the window those champions had to deal their damage. Tanks have a lot of CC by design, and if they do a lot of damage then they functionally 1-shot their targets by virtue of their targets being unable to respond to their targets. It's no different from a ToD combo in a fighting game, it doesn't matter whether the combo takes 20 seconds to execute of 90 second to execute, the combo still kills while the opponent can't do anything.
More importantly, I haven't played League in several years, but I have to wonder based on other people's comments I see in clips from August's streams: why are tanks dealing meaningful damage while building full tank? Why doesn't Riot just give these tanks diver/juggernaut/battle mage builds (depending on the tank) that allow them to build a mix of durability and either AD/AP so they can get their damage from damage items and durability from durability items? That would solve all the problems Riot wanted to solve with tanks being unbalanceable for pro while also creating more meaningful build options for players and allowing pros to have true tanks while keeping those champions balanced for lower levels.
Tanks don't actually one-shot ADCs. The "tanks" that can do that are juggernauts, or they're super fed, or they're building some amount of damage.
If real tanks don't do significant damage to ADCs, then they will lose duel to ADCs, and they'll be basically ignorable in team fights because they can't kill the ADC. And then why even play a tank in solo queue at all, why not just play Vayne top and have a Leona or Ashe to initiate fights.
I know people will make an argument saying "tanks should cc the ADC and be a threat that way" but the problem there is that 1) that's WILDLY more effective at high MMR than low MMR, leading to balance problems and making tanks non-viable outside of high MMR. Also 2) most people don't want to play cc bot tanks. Also 3) most ADCs will complain if tanks actually can chain-cc them and then they get killed by other enemy teammates (getting chain cc'd and killed is a very frustrating experience, it's actually even more frustrating than just getting killed directly).
As for the "what's the point of assassins when even tanks can kill ADCs over a span of five seconds without the ADC being able to stop that" argument: teammates can quite easily disrupt a tank killing an ADC. And yes that does mean that the ADC loses 1 vs 1 to the enemy toplaner tank, and I think that's fine. ADCs are a teamfighting class after all. If tanks lose the 1 vs 1 duel to ADCs, they're probably not viable outside of high MMR.
The reason they've said in the past was that when they tried creating items like that, champs like Ekko and Fizz would take them and become super tanky assassins. It was really hard to make tanky AP items that were meant for tanks that didn't get abused by hyper-mobile assassins instead.
But there is currently an AP item that tanks build very often, Rift Maker, which gives AP based on your max HP. That item is bought by champs like Zac and Tahm Kench and actually makes them do mage-level amounts of damage, but because they're melee unlike mages, and immobile unlike assassins, they still have to be (and are) super tanky to function. So you get things like a Tahm Kench who can kill an ADC with 3 autos+R+Q, or Zac who can kill with E+Q+R+W, both in like 3 seconds or so, while ccing you for much of the duration, and still having like 5k health.
As for AD items, that's already the case, AD tanks (which there aren't many of) do build thinks like Titanic Hydra sometimes (champs like Skarner and Sion), but again, tanks can't function unless they're super tanky on top of the damage they have, so they just get to have 5k hp AND the damage, when you give tanks damage items.
If anything, I think tanks having access to these damage items is exactly what makes them frustrating to play against.
Lil bro just watched the silence short and decided to write a dissertation
@@lightworker2956 Tanks should lose duels to ADCs because ADCs take a lot of risks to build roughly full damage and their damage profile (sustained AA damage) is specifically designed to counter tanks. Furthermore, tanks are a teamfighting class and primarily a utility-focused class like enchanters, and should make tradeoffs in their ability to 1v1 opponents (including ADCs) to be a reasonable champion for players.
However, my main argument is that building full tank shouldn't be recommended for 95% of the playerbase (which I assume is all but the high-level playerbase that understands how to play and use tanks). Tanks shouldn't deal meaningful damage if they build full tank, BUT they should deal meaningful damage if they build AP or AD (depending on the champion) at the expense of some durability (but not much) and recommend AP/AD items in their builds. This means that high-level players get their actual tanks while everyone else gets to play them as divers/juggernauts/battle mages (depending on the tank's damage profile) and have a good time with them.
Yeah you don't understand the argument because you're an ADC main and you don't want to
League needs more active items in general, they're just more fun than every single item being a passive stat stick
It's interesting though. I 100% agree, but all of my friends HATE active items, and say that it feels like it's just too many things to think about.
Actives are really interesting because I see a lot of like, famous I guess, actives (shielding your team as Leona with locket, hitting hourglass to save yourself) that everyone uses and knows to use, but if there's ever an active that isn't that popular I'll see lots of players build the item because a website told them to, then never actually use the active component.
@@gruncleiroh5525 This is actually a reason why I avoided looking up meta builds online back when I played League. I preferred making build decisions around what I wanted for my build and exploring what builds were possible within the game's systems rather than copying a build I saw online without understanding why it was good, or even if it was good at my skill level.
@@thegloriousryan8981 That may be because you've played much more than your friends have. (Although it's also possible that you're just better at the game than they are, or you're playing simpler characters).
The problem is that people with 30k hours in league need complex designs to keep things fun, while new players need simple designs.
@@lightworker2956 It's definitely a difference in objective. Of the people I play with who have similar time played to me, one of them is an adc main who focuses WAY more on positioning and team play (even joined their college's esports team for a bit), the other plays the game incredibly casually, and only progresses in the game through occasionally trying new characters. Regardless, I do think the solution here is honestly more item variety, since a lot of the frustration with active items I feel comes from "I want an AP armor item and zhonyas is the only option", or "I want a fighter tank shred item and BORK and black cleaver are the only options". If there were more active items AND passive items in the game, I feel like this problem would be significantly lessened, as the skill expression would be much more opt in, allowing people who don't want to engage with it to focus on other parts of their gameplay, while people who are ready for that level of engagement get rewarded for doing so.
I think the missing health scaling proyectile was a great idea.
It would be sick if you got to pick an upgrade path for each skill, but the amount of dev work that would require is also sickening.
i mean they could probably reuse a bunch of systems and augments from arena. Sure it would be a major update if for all characters but they could also just make a temporary game mode to test it for a limited number of champs
@MiniBinguss again, a sickening amount of work. they cancelled overwatch 2 not because of the pve/mmo work but because skill trees were so difficult to create and balance for the kits they’d designed. now picture caitlyn with a +25 range mod or a “your abilities can crit” mod or a “headshots reload 1 or 2 bullets faster mod”, she’s either OP or you’ve done this to every character and brought back mythic era stats and damage
dota can have skill trees because items there give barely any damage relative to exp via skill points and skill tree upgrades, which is just unlike league at this point
@@gggremlin that is NOT why they cancelled ow2, though they might like to say that it was.
speaking of blizzard, HotS had this system. And it was balanced, although ofc there were meta choices. But yeah it's more work to shift the system to that when it wasn't designed with that in mind in the first place.
if tanks dont do damage why do i avg 1550 dmg/min as zac top?
Counterargument for Galeforce not needing a lockout: We mustn't forget that it didn't just lock out ADCs buying it and other items, but other classes aswell. ADC items are notorious for being abused by other classes, so if the likes of Darius could build Galeforce after their core items, it would probably be pretty bad and kind of defeat the entire purpose of the item itself.
Make it for ranged only it would make sense as well bcs galeforce is a bow so that is an ez fix and it being ad item would exclude mages as well the only champion i can see that can abuse it is LeBlanc.
@@skelet8337in dota 2 theres a item called dragon lance it gives you 150 extra range BUT ranged only so as a melee you cant use the range so no one buys it. Lol could implement more stuff like this in concept to prevent potential abuse from champs that dont build for example adc items.
@loricx that is what I suggested and is already done with a few items?
Runes are also disproportionately effective for champs. Some champs like Gwen abuse conqueror insanely well but other champs who are forced to take conq cuz they have no better options still can’t really use the rune that well (Irelia, Samira)
honestly before i got to play with it I was really surprised that Lethal tempo didn't take over for Irelia. And then I played it and realise... yeah, no that is just doing nothing worthwile for this champ.
Talents in hots are more of a replacement to Items than they are to runes.
I love the people who to this day compare stridebreaker dash and galeforce dash, as if darius with a dash and jinx with a dash are the same level of horseshit.
Oh no the class that gets hard countered by kitting gets a short dash to close the gap vs a very fast and position reliant class gets an even bigger dash theres a clear difference.
@Junomybeloved darius stridebreaker > e was 875 range auto win tool.
If you dont see a problem with that then idk what to tell you, break into silver then come back and talk.
Also, adcs fast? They have the lowest average ms in the game, the least ms steroids in the game and the second lowest number of dashes. Where is all this mobility you are crying about? You're just blatantly lying to yourself at this point.
@@Junomybelovedstfu emerald ape
and kindred has galeforce on a 2 second cooldown lololol
@@Junomybeloved dont even try to argue with this brainded, the dude main caitlyn and want adc auto range to have the longest range in the game so no abilities with 20sec cd can reach them
Just make it so the dash does no damage, or at least not *more* damage based on missing health. Item is instantly healthier
my main problem with the item was jhin being able to dash 4th shot and bam you're dead.
A talent update for League would be awesome.
it'd be super cool but Riot would never put in the work to implement it
@@Nicole_whatsgood that would require they actually spend money on this game. XD
Play DoTA2 as if you were to play League.... It's just as hard to tool/balance like anything else
@@HienLeGia The talents are super fun tho.
@@makadur7438 read again, slowly.
Ornn landing semi global ult and then being able to knock you up into one rotation bursting you from full all while you’re cc’ed. The cc is uncleanseable because all of it is knock ups too
if he is not literally melee range of u with 0 interference he cant do this combo
@ his ult is over 2000 units long. His ult slows into knock up. He catches up and q then e and knocks you up again. He w and auto and you die and if you’re not dead then your knocked up again and he’s still full health and you have no health. Plus good luck auto attacking him because if you do, thornmail will finish you off
If you get hit by the extremely visible, extremely slow moving projectile from 2000 units away that is your fault. That's not a problem with ornn that's a problem with you
@@JacobHeaton-nq8yzit comes from max range and slows doesn’t it? So idk how you can avoid it sometimes when your flash is down. I feel like most of the time I “dodge” it, is only because orn missed more than me dodging
@ what if that projectile is the size of the lane and it slows you?
I feel like runes can make characters too complete, if you're tanky and do big damage baseline, but youre not fast then you can just take phase rush and now you have all three. If you're fast and do big dam baseline, but you're not tanky, you can pick up grasp and now again you have all three.
except that you still need to stack the grasp. The worst type runes are actually the ones that don't require to play in a specific way like sustain runes for example
Also it is inexact to say that characters can get too complete bc many characters only have one strength (take Xerath/Lux for example. They only have dmg and range. No tankiness, no movement) and if you try to get an all-round build instead of fully investing on 1 aspect you'll just have a mediocre build
@guilhemp1383 i think it's inexact to say that itd work on every character, but when it does work, like when garen takes phase rush, or akali/kat take grasp, those champs do feel like you can't exploit the weaknesses they would usually have.
5:00 Zed ult takes 3 seconds to pop, and I think there ARE a lot of tanks that can kill a squishy in 3 seconds.
A zed, like most assassins doesn't need to full combo and wait for ult tick to kill a squishy.
You thinking that and reality are 2 separate things
@@OG_ALviK he does need to full combo a squishy though. I play adcs and if Zed ults me, if I can dodge all his Qs and at least 1-2 E's, I can probably live.
@@etherealcat6521 DId you also know that if you dodge everything you can also beat faker!
And if my grandma had wheels, she would've been a bike!
Of course i know that if you dodge skillshots it's gonna take longer to kill a squishy. Thanks sherlock!
Fact is, most assassins can output two damage spells and an auto attack in a single istance "onetapping". And that damage alone is MORE than enough to kill every squishy.
All things bein equal.
@@OG_ALviK I dont think you understand either me or yourself. Zed needs to hit his entire combo on you to kill you, otherwise he won't.
well talking about cool items that would just need a bit of touching, getting rid of the slow and active from hextech gunblade could be a solution to bring it back to the game
would love to see talents in league and replace runes
What I wouldn't give to be able to play Galeforce Aphelios again
I still to this day play heroes of the storm every once in a while because the talent system is so cool. I would actually love it if we did away with runes in favor of talents as like a season update. Preferably you can choose them in game, I'd prefer if we were able to just get rid of big pre game choices beyond choosing your summoner spells. That said, having a "rune" page that are just talents unique to each character would be fine too. Like imagine if you could make Ori's ball give attack speed or something like that to the person it's attached to, or Ashe could get 5 50% on hit effects instead of just one per auto during her Q or cool things like that. Interesting build decisions would be so much more prevalent if they did it right. Make leblanc's q silence again but she doesn't get the detonation damage type deal. A TALENT THAT BASICALLY REVERTS DIANA REWORK. Okay I'm 100% in. A Talent that you choose for Kayle to stay melee longer but get her true damage back. The possibilities are endless.
They should make some new boots that give no stats other than regular movespeed but gives you a dash on a 1 min cool down.
galforece would prob need to be a zeal item but expensive. making it critless but ad and a/s might make it good on melee champs
Can somebody ask August about the Stridebreaker Dash?
whats there to say? the item single handedly flipflopped historic matchups such as kayle countering garen/sett but now stridebreaker garen/sett hard counter kayle
it was as game warping of an item as you really get
Would sell a kidney for a talent system in lol tbh
mundo kills me way faster than the enemy zed missing every q
On the tank thing, malphite is notably an exception.
Imo, he is just really, really poorly designed.
The big thing that leads to that is the rather low amount of utility for what should be a "tank". Aside from his R, he has a slow which isnt anything to write home about and he has his AS slow.
AS slow isnt as valuable these days as it used to be(except, of course, in 1v1s). And the big problem with his AS slow is that its melee range.
Nasus' Wither is a much better ability, frustrating as it may be, due to being both ranged and also VERY strong, its almost a disarm.
That leaves Malph R which is just supremely overtuned. Its very fast, almost undodgeable on reaction and even if you react, chances are that anything but Flash will fail. It also deals extremely high damage compared to similar engange Rs.
And aside from that, Malph is designed to be a hard counter - which is pretty evident looking at how lopsided his lane matchups are. Stacks armor, slows AS and can poke you for "free" until you are in burst range, basically unfightable for a swathe of champions. Being this hard-countery means that you cannot easily buff his base kit, round him out a little bitr, as he would then just be a "good champ" that also autowins numerous matchups at little cost. Heck, remember when malph was overtuned and he was a solid blind pick? A lot of champs basically became unviable due to that.
So yeah, in short: Malphs kit sucks for a tank, so the R has a massive power budget. He is also a pure hard-counter champ, which means you cannot easily align power to his base kit.
I mean everyone has flash and that's considered ok. There is absolutely a balance point where "second flash" would ve acceptable. The question would be working out just how much gold second flash would be worth
It definitely would have to have the damage part removed I think, and I also feel it would be healthier to make it shorter range with a lower cooldown(30 seconds, and like vayne tumble range).
while looking in the client, Mundo is Both under Fighter AND tank category. HE IS A TANK GET IT?!?
I play ARAM and tanks always have most damage in the team, 90% of games. Then what's the point of adcs if you just pick tank and shred everyone more efficiently without worrying about dying in a milisecond
nah lil bro bro u cant play aram and talk overall LOL balance, thats like a whole different game
@omgfgwtf7082 true, but the mode is popular enough that they balance it every single patch, so they took responsibility over it too
Tanks aren't the ones overtuned in aram. It's heartsteel, because you can constantly stack it, and a ton of other champs that are not tanks also become unkillable if they can stack it enough. Heartsteel should be removed from aram and the tank peoblem would go away.
@NaGa5h yeah I can see that, I see akali, Katarina, Veigar building it all the time
What a terrible take. Gale-force is essentially an extra flash for adcs that cannot position well, there is a reason why these long range dashes (gale force and prowlers) were both removed. Bad ADC's relied on it like a crutch since it was a 90 second CD, and it made playing top lane champions who already couldn't realistically gap close even less playable. Comparing it to something like protobelt is WILD considering the difference in range. If they want to make AD protobelt, thats fine. But don't act like galeforce is anywhere even comparable to any other item in the game lmao.
So strange how it's always the ADC mains complaining about tanks. Can you imagine if any other class of champions had a 95% playrate in a lane, and those players complained as much as ADC mains do? The entitlement is unreal.
Can you imagine any other class being told they are only allowed to ever be played on one role, and any time they even THINK about leaving that one role they will gutt/rework the champion, and desteoy their classes entire item set, just to he safe?
The thing about galeforce is that the champs that abuse it the most are mostly juggernauts, just like with stridebreaker and prowlers claw.
Especially garen would love galeforce returning.
ok but unironically garen galeforce combos were some of the sickest shit, and it came out of GAREN of all champs.
i like the idea of a ranged only lockout like runaan, plus making gale force a pure zeal item with 0 ad, a bunch of as and ms, and then a no damage missile dash on active with a reasonable cooldown
could make it range only. but then riot cant use the windshitters/tryndamere as an excuse as to why the item needs a 8 minute cooldown on its active and 46% gold efficiency.
literally no juggernaut abuses or abused galeforce what the are you smoking?????
they all build HP on almost every item except eclipse. You must have lost to youtubers making yt videos or watched too much zwag.
@RiptidexRiltreks if you dont think current garen isnt going to swap out his second item phantom dancer, for galeforce, then im sorry, but you're delusional.
Need i remind people garen was 50% of the reason stridebreaker justifiably lost its dash.
I personally think league would be 100% a better game if it deleted the item system and replaced it with hero specific items with more personalised and interesting effects (aka talents)
The reality is, the ability for every character to buy every item has been limiting design space for a really long time. every cool item is eventually broken on someone, and to prevent characters from buying outside their designed strengths and weaknesses, everything needs to be sanded down to a glorified stat stick. Giving personalised items per character would allow on the fly build diversity, while still allowing the iron grip that league devs want over the character design and role of a champion.
Compare this to dota, where any character can buy anything. A character like Ursa has huge damage, but is kiteable, and has bad disable. So, he can buy Blink, BKB and Basher to completely remove those problems. This is intended and encouraged. League clearly doesnt want items to be this impactful to characters identity, which is fine and I respect, but as a result basically nothing can be impactful.. at all. because what is a cool tech on one character could completely remove the weaknesses of another.
That would mean adding at the very least 6 items per champ, which is more than 700 items
@francescotrinci6405 realistically it would be a lot of similar stuff. theres no reason that lux and ahri can't both be offered luden's echo, but someone like Sion or w/e doesn't have it available.
Two things instantly problematic. 1) Why are ADCs sacrificing in itemization all the time but tanks dont have to. They already build items that have everything and they do dmg without buying dmg. That is just bad design
2)Again why is ADC always balanced around T1 lvl of communication peel and mechanics and no other class is.
I’m sure if you asked him this on stream he’d have some way to talk around it until he’s got himself into a position where it’s an irrefutable premise
I feel like for number 2, its mainly because of how binary marksmen have sort of been designed as much as some kits have nuance around it, they are basically ranged hyper damage autoattackers that have the most highest damage potencial in the entire game, and thus to balance that out, they often are very squishy and their tools when mispositioned are often limited in comparison to other classes. Because of this, this leans much more heavily into pro play where such mispositions arent nearly as constant to happen, on top of having extremely high damage potencial from everyone else in the team, and thus are sort of balanced around pro play to a degree with exceptions.
As to why they are doing this? Its probably becuase they are very fundamental in the dynamic of teams in League in general and pro play plays an important role to the reflection of League as a whole (Minus the whole toxic game with unfun stuff on it).
Because its easier to sacrifice 20% of players in every game for the enjoyment of everyone else rather than actually put real effort into balancing the game.
Its just easier to balance a 4v4+extra minions than it is to balance a 5v5 team game.
adc mains will cry even if their champs have 50%+ wr in every role. silly wannabe main characters, maybe git gud?
For #2: Because otherwise you get what we nearly got at worlds with 3 adcs every game in top mid and bot lane. They've been trying to make it better, by making lower range adc's with more agency, such as kai'sa, samira, samira 2, zeri, and akshan, but ultimately that's the most they can do without making non-adc's go bot, which the playerbase doesn't like either.
Yes, most tanks dont really 1shot you, and then there is zac with bamis cinder and boots of speed.
Zac is sort of an exception, and I think a lot of his frustration comes from a combination of his high damage and his lack of visual clarity in how he's doing it with his w.
Also Tahm Kench with Heartsteel and Rift Maker still being probably the tankiest champ in the game save Alistar with ult, and still 1 shotting you. The champ feels disgusting every time I play him.
Orn and sion do kill you as fast as zed lol
that jinx that took 2 tower shots, and got kench ult'd in a 1v1 is malding.
Some tanks can one tap with their combo while going full tank.
Name them specifically. I don't really think there really are tanks around that do that unless as stated, you're a very squishy ADC or they are extremely fed
@@navadax4541 tham kench
@@navadax4541 they would call those champs differently like Juggernaut/Bruiser/Tanky/Beefy whatever, but If champ have 5k hp and building tank - he is a tank
@@navadax4541so all of them then if we’re going by your logic
@@TopFlightSecurityGuard If we're being this pedantic and extreme, you could make the argument that Yuumi can 1 shot if she's far enough ahead and the enemy are far enough behind. My point was obviously that most tanks can't one tap while building full tank outside of strange circumstances, and I don't believe you're too stupid to understand that's clearly what I meant, but you can pretend otherwise if you just want to be weird about it.
Tanks are consistently in first place for damage in a team.
I recently had a damage record on Caitlyn for the month something like 90k, but in the same game the enemy Ksanthe did 110k damage! At the same time he was in first place in all parameters. Damage dealt, damage taken, damage prevented.
And yes this shit kills as fast as ZED!
The thing to remember tho is that raw damage numbers can be misleading, if the ksante spends 40 minute trading with a mundo or chogath those damage numbers can become inflated very quickly
Ah yes tanks are so broken that the best tank is one that changes from a tank into a good champion
@@connerair3520 I know, but that's not the case. In this game, he did that damage by killing everyone on my team. To add another layer of insanity. I was the only AD on the team and that didn't stop Ksanthe from building only armor items and 1v 4 fights against 4 mage damage characters. ( Malphite, Lux, Amumu, Soraka).
That was before the netfs, but still. This shit has existed in the game for months!
@@Airmez Are you out of your mind? Everyone's playing Tanks now. Look at what the best players on your server are playing. Zacks, Maokai, Ksanthe, Skarners and shit like that.
Riot removed both possibilities for ADC to deal increased damage to tanks, weakened Lethal Tempo, weakened Blade of the Ruined King (especially for ADC) removed both runes that allowed bruisers to have extra tenacity, and weakened the tenacity boots too.
I read some comments and I think dude! Some people never played a mage( who doesn't build health like Vlad) or ADC. If you are Zoe orianna xayah or jinx it doesn't matter if you are playing against a tank or mage or support. Everything can kill you before you have enough time to react. Yeah I know it isn't always the case but come on! At least it's true 40% of the time and 40% it's a lot
You have the advantage of range. Leverage your range and stay with teammates to not get caught out
And for people who want to say oh range oh mispositioned oh skill issues. I played both ADC and ADC killers. It may be fair but it's not fun that jhin should play perfectly but some heroes like sylas irelia Jax yone Katarina kill you if they just hit one ability. My favorite toplaner is Jax. Jax press e then q and boom! I killed an ADC. It's not fun. It's not fun The enemy Ashe should move like faker but I as Dr Mundo use r and right click Ashe and ashe die.
@@samanoskeitachi9436 speak for yourself because there's a ton of ADC players that love being the glass canon that can kill everything but has a high mechanical barrier to entry. It's why Akali Yasuo Yone Jinx KaiSa are all really popular champs
@@nixsnowsong6732 the range argument died the day we put camille in the game.
also there are now ZERO melee champions that xayah actually has the range advantage against. not a single one. not even udyr anymore.
@@einjharrelraca Then you're not using your range correctly. Frankly most of playing range is KNOWING where characters are. If I know where a Camille is I'm never letting them jump on me. It's about having the mental stack to track high threat targets through fog of war. Like it or not but the advantage of range is critically strong even in modern league.
Also for common examples it's important to know how to outplay the predictable engages, use your own outplay tools like Xayah R, Vayne Q/E, Ezreal E to disrupt their attempt to get onto you. The majority of ADCs and mages have the tools necessary to mitigate being jumped.
to this day i cannot understand why riot try to make champions to fit into specific "class" categories instead of just making champs with cool concepts as their baseline and letting players use them as they see fit. i find it such a cope when he and other rioters talk about role-problematic champs
the cope on this guy with the tanks.
Full tank malphite kills you faster than zed and dances in front of your team afterwards
August like most rioters have a phd in bullshit and doublespeak
No he doesn't and if you think this you are bad.
Malphite does not. At all.
i can't believe you actually typed this with sincerity
@@christianokoye9491 99% of the people who play this game are actually bad
I missed galeforce so much. I used to be a top/ADC player but after they removed it I stopped playing ADC. All of the ADC that I play use galeforce and when yasou yone Katarina and ambesa have 124 dash they deleted galeforce because ADCs shouldn't have dash! It's completely stupid .
All those bruisers don’t have consistent point n click damage. Adc’s arent supposed to have dashes to makeup for mispositioning, they’re supposed to not misposition to begin with
Why don't most *ranged* ADCs get dashes when most **melee** champs do?? 😭💔
@@ssj9devil I know but it's true when yone or ambesa don't catch me with a super long range ability. If you give some classes an ability to catch you from long range you should give other classes something to dash to dodge. I don't want to explain how 80% of ADCs should use flash or a really important ability to escape from irelia with unmissable ult and put and click q . I'm playing top and I know how easy it is to catch an ADC.
@@samanoskeitachi9436 I mean absolutely but that’s the nature of it. Frail piece of paper fights a bulky pair of scissors, I expect ribbons to fly. Playing top lane adc is for those that are better than their opponents and have the patience to afk farm when needed and outplay their opponents nuts when it’s possible. Itelia ult is a skill shot, but even so most of the time adc’s should be with their supports that compliment their damage with peel. The abilities that can catch you out at range tend to give you more time to react and out footsie it…. Except for ambessa I think that’s basically a blink if you’re all the back of the line she sends out
@ also is that blue kayn? Itachi would so be a blue kayn player
Champs that arent tanks or bruisers should be locked out of tank items. Champs that arent assassins should be locked out of assassin items.
Champs that arent adcs should be locked out of adc items. Etc
Lanes should be locked to classes like overwatch. If you play top you should play a tank or bruiser. If you play bot you should be forced to play an adc. Support should be forced to play a support.
Ridiculous that an adc can go top or mid. Or have a mage support bot lane in place of an adc.
I don't see how this solves anything. Champions aren't building outside of their item classes, Riot balances to make sure it stays that way, so they basically already do lock out items for classes that aren't meant to build them.
Bro saw one tank item on late game smolder or fimbul Veigar and malded
@@Sinzari Plenty of champs and players build outside of their default. Prevents trolls, prevents adcs having assassin items, prevents tanks having damage items. What dont you get?
@@omega4223 Nah, ive just seen vayne, teemo, gwen, syals, yone, yas, akali in top, adcs mid, ap mages bot, cho and galio bot lane, Dual ADC lanes etc. I think its ridiculous to assert that league is a skill based game when it has fundamentally been designed around a class based system, like overwatch yet specific roles that each lane and class are supposed to play are optional. Its like designing cars and roads but driving on the road is optional. Go for it boys, drive on the foot path, go where ever you want. How many times have people troll picked their champ because they didnt get the role they wanted and you see Yummi top or JG. They fight so hard to nerf funneling strats but wont prevent players from trolling. They harp on about how toxicity is harming the game yet chat monitoring is all they do... How many times have you lost a game because you didnt have a tank or an ADC, couldnt peel your squishy team mates etc.
It takes 2m of thought to realize LOL is a game of half implemented systems and Riot wont do much else than make sure players keep coming back. The only place off meta builds should be used is ARAM. Wanna go tank veigar in aram? Go for it. But how do you balance 160 champs and the item system EFFECTIVELY unless you lock items to champions and lock champion classes to roles.
@@Artemis0567 Bro you're delusional if you think locking items to classes will prevent trolls. And off meta builds promote fun and diversity, a Volibear building AP is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's not like it's a balance problem, because off meta builds aren't stronger than meta builds, by definition.