I Tested EVERY Nerfed Weapon in the New Update in Helldivers 2 - Nerfed Weapons Tierlist
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- A bunch of nerfs happened in Helldivers 2 recently so I tested all of them against terminids and automatons. Here are my thoughts on them for the new patch. #helldivers2
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00:00 Weapons Tierlist
01:10 Explosive Crossbow
02:45 Redeemer and Dominator
03:33 Guard Dog Laser
04:45 Blazing Boost
05:21 Quasar Canon
09:54 Eruptor
14:33 Railgun 
Игры
Literally as I'm uploading this they sent a hotfix to change the eruptor a bit, they are saying it made it stronger.
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Guard Dog nerf only affected the machine gun variant
AX/AR-23 Guard Dog
Decreased damage by 30%
not AX/LAS-5 "Guard Dog" Rover
that was a typo on steam
@@thiccfila gotcha
The railgun in HD1 had a 5 round clip. Ya think that would help at all?
@@Richard3rd665the discord patch notes say “Guard Dog Rover Decreased damage by 30%”. The guard dog rover is the laser one.
The best part about the guard dog laser nerf, it doesnt kill you as fast when it hits you.
Me still getting my head removed by it: 🫥
It shouldn't shot you anyway
Over the last week I was using the ballistic Guard Dog and I think I only got hit by it like once. Were as the LAS Dog rakes you and teammates all the time. Ballistic Dogs TTK is faster and it doesn't just keep firing between targets dragging the laser around hitting friendlies. It stops firing after every target. Runs out of ammo fast and I mean its total ammo, I don't mind the reloading. But I think it needs either extended or double stack mags to bump its mags from 45 rounds to 60 rounds or let us get, say 2 mags from small ammo boxes on the map. I think the second option is the better of the two. Because honestly most of my ammo throughout a mission comes from ammo packs and not supply drops, at least against bots. Frequently supplies are called in for stims and nades, not actual ammo.
@@Zankaroo yeah it’s why I love the thing, it’s decent and I love hearing it blasting away at enemies using its machine gun
Honestly once I learned to look at what it was shooting at as soon as I felt it was about to shoot me or even started to hit me I never died from it. I 'm sure I could still get head shot. But we also got potentially some headshot protection now with higher armors, so you just try fragging me now you darn dog!
All these balance changes and yet there's still no reason to use any assault rifle over the Sickle.
Nah I'll stick to my lib
@@JayT546I'm sure that extra 5 damage makes all the difference.
They’ll nerf the sickle if enough people use it
There is tho. When you‘re getting swarmed the wind up on the sickle makes a pretty big difference
@@qu1253 Better accuracy, low recoil, large mag size and reserves, high muzzle velocity, no need for recharge, and the biggest reason...
It's pretty cool lookin :D
What gets me is that the devs specifically said they wanted the rail gun to be high-risk high-reward; but since the initial nerf, it's only ever been high-risk no-reward... really kinda sad.
I keep the railgun categorized as a medium target killer that just so happens to kill heavys sometimes
@@AmericanMensClub Yeah its very clear the railgun was never meant to be a heavy killer with how much ammo it has and how much more lenient it is than all the other heavy killers.
Its an anti armor tool across the board but it has low damage.
So its amazing against hulks (1 shotting at safe) but its not meant to take out Bile titans or factory striders.
@@theresnothinghere1745
The problem is everyone wants it to be "the" gun, which as far as i see it, this allows u to use light penetration guns to focus on fodder and have some better ammo economy.
Instead everyone is like Jar 5 Dominator or your a Noob, same with the sickle, its cringey
@@AmericanMensClub Yeah they don't really recognise the value in other guns because people are so focused on the general benefits instead of building a kit out of individually flawed pieces that works to cover its gaps.
It's why the quasar was so popular as well, it fired so often it was an anti tank that could freely be used to destroy objectives and occasionally kill annoying units like Bile spitters or shield devastators.
@@theresnothinghere1745
Nah Quasar could kill bile titan in 2 hits, it was so much economy with no wait time compared to other guns, and so it is getting nerfed to compensate.
The whole reason people were picking the quasar cannon was because it didnt run out of ammo. Becauae the devs get stingey with the RR rounds. And EATs only come so fast. If they keep adding stuff that requires anti armor weapons and not giving players tools to kill them.
Hasn't the RR gotten a few buffs now on ammo economy?
@josephburchanowski4636 yeah it got a bit. But even at max it only carries 6 shots. Which can go real quick if you have to expend 2 per heavy enemy.
@@purplecrisp
or pick up any ammo box and get 2 ammo
and you dont have to stop to reload. ppl often forget abt that. sitting still is bad against bugs
@@hippoace
or if people actually used the mechanics become a stationary missile turret able to kill as many chargers/titans in 1/4 the time.
And I have bite back against sitting still against bugs, this is only a problem if you are engaging the bugs at 50meters or shorter, if you are at 150-200-300meters they shouldnt even get past 100 meters save the heavies.
but thats the problem is people dont understand the support weapon hierarchy, and so think everyone needs an AT weapon or some nonsense like that, it makes for bad team balance.
The problem I see is that weapons are getting released that obviously haven't been play tested enough. The weapons are broken, underpowered, or overpowered in some cases. A problem with nerfing weapons is that the community feels like you took somthing away, and there are other weapons that have clear problems that are ignored. If Arrowhead would do more extensive testing before releasing and maybe even release a weapon in an underperformed state they can then improve it rather than nurf it.
I agree! And apparently this patch made it to where if you use the shield and plasma punisher, the punisher hits the shield and does damage to you. That is such a glaring issue that should have been caught.
Take one or two months entirely for bug fixes and nerfs/buffs get everything in the game to a good point before they add anything else.
This isnt about our opinions its what makes everything work well as a whole. too many people scream for buffs instead of understanding what the guns purpose is.
@@nathanlockhart3876
its not an issue its logic, your shooting an expelled orb of plasma that flies outward, they are denying shield users use of the punisher, which im ok with i dislike shield gen users their kinda lazy.
@@AmericanMensClub that logic could extend to every projectile though. If you wanna like that, it would honestly make more sense if nothing could move through a shield.
I didn't notice any performance loss on the guard dog either. I wonder if it has been using the same damage values as the scythe, since that's basically what it is, and when they buffed the scythe this patch, they nerfed the new damage off of the guard dog to effectively put it right back where it was?
Not sure, but it seems fine to me.
If you read the patch notes carefully you can see the Guard Dog nerf is only stated for the Machine gun variant.
AX/AR-23 Guard Dog
Decreased damage by 30%
The laser variant is the AX/LAS-5 "Guard Dog" Rover
that was a steam typo, they clarified on discord
@@thiccfila gotcha
It’s deff noticeable right away it doesn’t shred everything and barely does any damage to yourself or team
Honestly, as someone who really doesnt use the Quasar often(or probably at all), I can say that it always felt like a weapon that was perfectly balanced for its niche, and that it felt like the main reason why people liked was for that niche specifically, not for the weapon itself. The Quasar's niche of being a cooldown based anti-tank launcher was popular more for the convenience of not having to manage ammo rather than being of actual power, which isnt a bad thing considering thats literally why it exists. If anything, the Quasar was in a goldilocks zone due to the skill and timing required to shoot the thing.
That is exactly why I enjoyed it. The cool down was harsh, and the wind up could be a bit shaky, but I got good at using it for its niche.
5 seconds might be 5 seconds, but it just doesn't hold up anymore. It threw a wrench into how to use it, and its too punishing in high stress engagements now
The hotfix might've fixed this, although seeing their track record I have my doubts, but initially the heat sink for the Quasar still used the old 10 second animation, meaning you'd look at it, see it cooled off, then tried using it only to realize you still have 5 more seconds to wait.
I won't say I didn't mind this nerf, because I definitely did, but at least nerf it correctly, gee.
I wish they instead would've slightly nerfed the damage to make recoiless have a reason to use when not team reloading
All these nerfs are hurting my motivation to play. They are acting like the computer enemies have feelings
The Devs are just butt hurt their game isn't mega hard
Yep. They're making it easier and easier for more and more players to just delete and forget their game.
I can understand an occasional nerf,but I don't like how they are actually doing it,or understand the weirdos that defend it tbh. It's just not fun to be constantly nerfing,buffing,and changing weapons randomly on a near constant rotation. It makes players constantly have to use new stuff and avoid a meta sure,but it also makes fun to use weapons unviable,or just less fun to use. It's a game,and they should honestly be prioritizing the fun of the experience, rather than meta breaking tactics. And ofc not long after the patch,they announce a new warbond with a buncha new primaries tht they're just gonna do the same shiz to😭
@@gabetheguy5019 it's really reminding me of how Bungie operates destiny 2 and that's embarrassing to say
lol
the crossbow is already bad before the patch, but i love to use it then, now they literally make it like it shoots stone with rubber. straight up trash.
Dude fr. They nerfed the wrong guns. And buffed the wrong ones as well. SMH.
But the damage is the same, they added stagger to it, the devs said that they intended the weapon to be more focused on single targets
@@itriyumexcept it’s still trash against single targets🗿🗿🗿
100% agree it was my fav weapon before, now it’s just like a shitty eruptor
@@itriyumEXPLOSIVE crossbow for single targets from the democratic DETONATION warbond? Make it make sense.
Guard dog Rover didn’t receive such a nerf people think. It carries a Sytche, which got buffed with 50dmg (350dmg). So a 30% dmg nerf to that puts the rover at 245dmg, instead of the old 300dmg. And it’s not 210 like people believe.
It doesn’t matter how much damage it does. That fact it has aim lock is already very powerful and can kill all of the little bugs while you do the big job.
@@speedyazi5029 And that is its intended function. Which still works well. It's just not as effective as knawing away at the bigger bugs now, like the brood commanders.
It needs to cool down. It's stupid it can fire infinitely where as the other one has to stop to reload. It still needs to have a cooldown added.
@@Someguy6571it actually is supposed to have a cooldown period when it overheats, but it must be bugged
@@diswazzi1683 Why they haven't fixed it yet is beyond me. IT just straight up outclasses the Liberator drone since it has to reload.
Yeah Railgun revert absolutely did not make it S tier. I was so unbelievably wrong holy shit.
alright i didn’t mind it at first either and was happy with the buff and using it until this video. I kinda want them to just make it the same it was at launch, or if they really want to, then just add one extra shot or two on every big enemy before it dies. specifically instead of two shotting maybe 3 or 4. It took skill to do that so it’s just annoying they treat the railgun so bad for no reason lmao
@@dahveedb7550
its just not its job, it fits in the role the AMR has.
Its not even a revert.
The main nerf was a damage nerf to "durable" body parts. The penetration is irrelevant if the damage is just non-existent against heavy armor.
The crossbow change is baffling. If they want it to kill medium enemies well it needs medium pen. I really don't understand what their thought process was with that change.
according to the video they want it like the scorcher 🤡
it does have medium pen, just unlisted but you are right the explosion isn't medium pen.
really the issue is that most weapons can already deal with devistators and usually support weapons are the go to for them. but now you get overrun by chafe with this so you won't have enough ammo for the devistators by the time you see one.
@@petercottantail7850 Based on its listed damage I'm pretty sure only the explosive portion of the damage penetrates medium armor. If all its damage had medium pen it would kill devastators in one or two shots I believe.
except you can't kill the things the scorcher kills. crossbow sucks now
@@aaronhumphrey3514 Actually you got it backwards. The crossbow direct hit has a pen of 3. It's explosion only has a pen of 2. This is actually the opposite of the scorcher which has a pen of 2, but its explosion has a pen of 3.
It's almost like they wanted to make sure that everyone knew that that warbond is just not worth buying at all, nade is bad, the booster is VERY situational, the pistol is worse than the default, the crossbow is now even worse than it was, the Eruptor is the only kinda good weapon NOW and the BR-14, sorry but it's still not in a good place, mag is too small for hive guards and it still recoils horizontally rather than vertically. It was simply a bad warbond, I can only hope that it was a fluke and the next will be better, otherwise, what's the point?
I am extremely unhappy with the Eruptor changes. Decreasing mags was fine, maybe to 8 would have been better. But the falloff reduction seems excessive and frankly wasn't necessary. The weapon had weakness and vulnerabilities that balanced the AOE strength.
they apparently buffed it in a hotfix that dropped the moment I published this video
@@thiccfila interesting, and thanks for the response. Is this from Discord? Where do you see the buff?
Falloff reduction makes it to where the explosion is more localized. Aka, you get blown up less and the shrapnel hits more of the enemy you're shooting at. It's more so of a buff.
I used it all day after Yesterday patch. Felt absolutly the same. One tap spewer and kill trash by dozen each shot. And I never use more than 6 mag before supply.
Still OP
@@Quintinius31 yeah it's op as all fuck, idk what people are on about tbh just snorting copium
railgun being the only one in trashhh tier made me laugh so hard
lol
It's true though, it does no damage lmao
It can strip charger legs in 2 shots now at least
@@TheNavigator4552 It was doing that before this buff as well, just at higher charge. This patch made no notable differences in killing power while nerfing the stagger on it. Arrowhead moment, they hate the thing .
So lame, because it’s such a cool futuristic weapon. A shame that the devs seem to be biased against it while allowing other support weapons to outperform it.
RIP crossbow. With the explosion aoe no longer able to kill hunters it is just not usable anymore. At all. Reducing the aoe size was actually a very heavy damage nerf because of how explosion damage falloff works.
this is the first time ive seen someone else talk about the fall off. it is so bad now. the priority it takes is insane, seeing things 'flinch' right next to a bolt is soul crushing, they definitely should be feeling the inner radius but the weak part only seems to be hitting
fall off size was clearly untouched and only the strong part was reduced for a worse ratio
I know you said the railgun change was a buff but TBH since the amount of shots didnt change to kill relevant targets and they removed the stagger(so you cant stagger hulks/bile titans out of spewing) the railgun changes were overall a nerf or at best a neutral change.
yea the bring back the stagger and keep it as is (finally it doesn’t shoot shit pellets anymore) and we’ll be good. Just needs to stun bile titans because right now the decrease stagger on a RAILgun makes zero sense. let it feel powerful that’s what’s fun about it
@dahveedb7550 they didn't buff the damage dude lmao.
But yes if they buff the damage to 2 shot chargers and being the stagger back it'll be in a good spot
@@TheCosmicAstro- They did buff the penetration. But I thought it already had at least 6 pen on full charge, so I am a bit surprised that it kills bile Titans in less shots (from 18 to 8). I thought bile titan heads only had an armor of 5; so I wonder what is happening there.
Either they buffed some form of its damage (perhaps durable body parts), or it is piercing parts of the bile titan and thus doing double damage. Or it didn't have 6 pen before? Something weird is happening.
Anyways, the buff to pen is probably most useful to low skill players using safe mode. Quite literally the weapon was completely outclassed by the AMR as they both have pen 4. Just a little bit of charge in unsafe mode gets you to pen 5; which is needed for destroying the hulk eye in one shot; now it is able to do that in safe mode.
For the average player, the most useful thing is that it gets to pen 6 much faster, meaning you can two shot strip the charger leg armor much faster.
It didn't change the amount of shot needed yeah but you don't need to edge it for the same result as before, offering less risk for the same reward.
@josephburchanowski4636 8 isnt accurate. Its around 12 consistently.
Every time i dump a whole sickle mag into a brood commander i think to myself i wish i had less ammo
The devs are about to force me to use the supply backpack exclusively on myself
@@stronensycharte64 If you are talking about the nerf to the bolter, you would need to fire EVERY chance you could to run out of ammo with it prenerf if you wanted a chance to run out of ammo before resupply came off CD.
For the brood commander you have to cut off its limbs like dead space, uses like half the ammo
Bruh i play entire missions without ever reloading the sickle. Just fire it to red and switch to your secondary. This wasn't even close to an actual nerf, which the weapon honestly deserves as it outclasses any assault rifle, especially on bots imo.
oohhh booohoooo why cant my main weapon (that is supposed to be used to engage basic infantry) effortlessly take down one the mid tier heavily armored enemies >:(
unironically, get good
Overall the weapon nerfs aren't even that bad. Im still pissed they removed the ability to spam pin the map to find hidden objectives.
So THAT'S why I couldn't do that last night. Must have missed it in the patch notes.
it wasnt in there
@Mischievous_Moth I doubled checked then rechecked and it wasn't even in the patch notes 💀
It wouldn't be that bad if not for two things
1. The lack of vehicles, mainly the jeep that would make traveling faster instead of constantly juggling stamina.
2. The patrol spam. Idk if it's bad luck but just now I was playing a LEVEL 3 match solo and had 5 different patrols bearing down on me. It's so busted
@@the_rumblemaster1375That’s because patrols don’t actually patrol set paths. They know where you are the moment they spawn and beeline straight to that location. That’s why they always seem to stumble onto you at the worst time every time in protracted fights.
I don't know why they are missing the mark on exploding crossbow so poorly for. If you want to to be good trash clear then bump the AOE way up. If you want it to be for the mid range creatures then bump up the damage and ammo/magazine size so you can do that. Now it isn't really good for anything.
If you don't notice any change with the weapon performance then don't change it in the first place.
One thing I've always done with the Quasar, even before the nerf, that really makes it better is call in a second one in a pinch. It goes without saying, but I'm saying it anyway, this method effectively doubles the shots per minute of the Canon. And if it's close enough, you can bring the spare to evac after the engagement, letting you have a Quasar Barrage.
yep the swap tactic means it's a 7.5 second refire instead of 15 (previously 50 and thats a HUGE benefit for static fights or if you retreat back over a place you already died/fought-at.
Expendable anti-tank Quasar.
Wow, that’s actually a good idea, I will have to remember that.
"hmm this is a very good gun, we should fix that" - the devs
When a gun is good enough to invalidate all the other options (if we're honest), yes, absolutely. There's no way to buff other primaries enough to compete with what is essentially a support weapon off spawn no cooldown
@@bodkin7841 Honestly then that's an issue of the other weapons being complete garbage isn't it? if I have an iron knife in a sea of plastic spoons I'm not going to nerf the iron knife because it's better at killing things am I?
@@sidekic1109 They did make other weapons alot better, and the quasar nerf was deserved for how it invalidated Recoilless or eats while also not needing backpack.
And the Railgun also got a big buff.
@sidekic1109 primary weapons are kinda supposed to all be plastic spoons, ngl, if you're talking about them being poor vs armor
If we want to start power creeping everything up, that's whatever then, but that has many more implications and issues than simply fixing an overtuned gun to be good but not op, just because people who use it would be upset that it's not objective king anymore.
@@anstorner there is zero reason to pick any assault rifle over the sickle
Whoever is responsible for the weapon balancing needs to move to a new department.
imagine if in the real world bad game development was considered treason and undermining democracy? we would "implement" an orbital laser stratagem to 95% of the game development industry. When you are around the Ubisoft office location the Hell bomb stratagem will always pop up in the top left corner.
Arc Thrower also got a nerf - it no longer stuns Hulks at all. The change to scout striders also effectively nerfs scorcher against bots - it's now 5 shots instead of 2 to get kills from the front. The devs didn't flat out put it in the "weapon changes" part of the notes, but the Hulk and Strider changes were pretty targeted on which weapons they were gunning to weaken. If it's worth mentioning stuff like the Dominator losing a negligible amount of damage, then these are way past that in terms of impact on actual play.
true but with the domoinator it is a change directly assosiated to the dominator and its code, the scorcher wasnt directly changed just the enemie most people would use it against. and I hate the idea that the best primary Anti AT-ST is now pointless. like serriously it was undesireable against any other low to mid tier enemie when you compared it to litteraly anny other primary, sure it can get the job done.... with less ammo at your disposal, small clips, and oh yes that high risk of killing yourself if somethings too close. not even a "owww damit that hurt" just * dead *
I disagree about the quasar, EAT's are not that great, the fact you have to worry about calling them in, on cooldown, and standing in one place so you can pick both up, and then theres a window between pulling it out and when you can shoot. It's not that much better than the quasar. On helldive theres 90% of the time a stratagem cooldown increase, meaning you can only shoot 2 rockets every 1:45 minutes. You can get a lot more than 2 quasar shots in that time
Then if we go look at the RR, it has nothing but downsides, sure it is the fastest to unload 7 shots in optimal conditions, but those conditions are rare, then you give up your backpack slot as well, so now you are either getting blasted by the aoe of explosives and unable to reload solo, or you're not having a guard dog keep the hunters off you to get those reloads. I've never had randos willingly be my reloader, because usually they need to focus on meds and smalls while I handle big, or they're handling bigs too.
TL;DR you're gonna be solo reloading a lot, and the lack of backpack slot makes that really rough.
EAT, no worries about reload, only the normal issues of on demand strats, but with it, you have that waiting time to focus on smalls and meds unlike a solo RR reload, but you're absolutely gonna struggle at some point because more often than not you're calling it in response instead of it being ready at start.
Quasar, always got it when you choose it, while it now takes longer to charge, it now is closer to how long it takes to reasonably reload the RR in standard conditions, should the RR even have a chance to reload, and like the EAT during the charging process you're free to just focus on mediums and smalls until it is back online, but now you aren't bound to that one location. Wanna know why I mentioned you're calling EATs usually in response? Because with the Quasar you're going to start an engagement by picking off a large enemy to begin with, and at the start of an engagement smalls and mediums are honestly higher priorities than bigs, but now you have to dance around fewer big enemies.
Y'know what actually contests the Quasar? The autocannon. It has an ammo pool that makes it so you can handle mediums when needed, with precision you can get multiple bigs without reloading, and it still has the stationary reload, and a backpack slot. But when it is in good hands, it can properly outclass the Quasar. Never fully unload the gun, you have super short reloads that you can actually sneak in at high stress times.
Eats are amazing what are you on about? I'd use EATs over Quasar even before the nerf.
So the main thing with the crossbow is it seems to flinch medium tier enemies now compared to before where devastators would just destroy you since you couldn't flinch them. Personally, I see that as a big buff because that was the main thing I had issues with when playing Automatons.
on paper yes,
but gake it out for a spin and see its the worst trade off possible.
remember it only has 5 shots per clip, slow rate of fire. it already can head shot them and not deal with that or use support weapon like most people already were doing with it for devistators.
now its giving us the option to waste an entire clip (reduced total count btw) to stunlock 1 devistator. the plasma punisher already does this with a much higher rate of fire and more shots per clip and seems to be more damaging over all.
and what did we lose? the ability to use its explosion to take out more than one mob at a time that balanced its very low clip size to begin with. individual target with 5 shots and a long reload is not the answer to a primary and there is zero perks here.
i have no problem if they want it to function differently than the plasma punisher but because these "reworks" didn't address the ammo and now it is just a terrible weapon forcing your team to do everything while you slowly pelt away at a medium target that anything else could just kill in the time it takes to shoot twice with the cross bow. the plasmapunisher and xbow are even more identical of weapons than theu were before but now pp is just significantly better
Mind you only directs hits do this, the AoE splash has lower stun unlike plasma punisher which the aoe and projectile have the same stun
been running d7-8 with it and think im the only person that like the new crossbow more haha
@@redfish6549 I liked it before and now as well. I think they are looking to make the plasma shotgun and it similar with the crossbow doing better at range. It could still use some adjustments but I don't understand how people expect every item to be perfectly balanced at all times. Changes happen, it helps with keeping the game interesting and changing up what people use.
Flinching is the only thing it can do but you only have 5 mag. You know what the Scorcher does that crossbow doesnt ? Kill the devastator.
I mean, i feel you with the quasar charge up time, makes sense, but i genuinely dont think thats enough of a downside to justify its perks, think about it, in the exact same scenario you mention with 2+ BTs, EAT maybe performs well there for the first BT, but recoiless, or spear, you get 1 shot depending on range before you’re a BT toe shishkebab while you try to reload. It still again as i said earlier, doesnt require you to sit still for any amount of time, and there is no ammo econ to worry about. The nerf to me seems warranted, i’d rather see a recharge nerf than a flat dmg nerf any day.
My point was with any multiple amount of bile titans I always use any rocket for the 1st, 500kg for the second. I'm not trying to kite a whole bile titan for a minute no matter which rocket I bring. Point being what happens when theres 2 bile titans and 3 chargers? Or just 3 bile titans. I feel people say "how fast can it kill titan". But we're often facing much more. I regularly play lvl 4 and 5 to test the kill a bile titan missions. I can't tell you how often theres a stalker nest, 3 chargers, then when I aggro the bile titan and one of the bugs near it spawns a breach it literally feels like helldive. Let alone thats just the regular on helldive.
@@thiccfila i get that, still doesnt address what i mentioned though, there was minimal downside to the quasar vs other rocket options, even the EAT only gave at most 3 shots every ~70 seconds if you carried one over, which then drops back to 2 shots ~70 seconds, recoiless needs backpack and stationary reload even if you stage the reload animation it still leaves you up shit creek without a paddle when the hunters decide to play leapfrog with you. As for chargers, my point stands even stronger because again, you dont have to be stationary, yes it takes a little longer to deal with them now, but you can still run shield pack which practically makes you invincible to their charge, and just run in a circle while it recharges, i respect the amount of work you put into the videos and your opinion definitely has merit given the time you put in, but from my perspective quasar was not a side grade to other rockets when you consider the ease of use, especially when paired with a shield pack or even a jump pack just to gain distance for the charge time, at least for bugs, bots i never run rockets i just laser cannon everything.
Recoilless takes more work kiting and killing things before stage reloading. I also highly recommend a different build with it. It's very good with turrets, gatlin and autocannon. It also was the fastest AT launcher whether solo reloading or team loading. I play mainly in squads, and the game is meant for squads, but I have done multiple solo helldives with recoilless. Quasar is the comfy option but never was peak damage. Recoilless is uncomfy but peak damage. To me thats a side grade.
@@thiccfila i mean, ease of use is the key factor here, why run recoiless where you have to kite, stage reloads, manage ads effectively to get the reload off, vs fire and forget wait the timer and still have a shield pack, or rover helping out.
You’re essentially describing a skill ceiling to reach peak dps, which is how it should be dont get me wrong, but when the quasar could nearly forgo the need for a skill ceiling, while being far safer, and still getting similar results, thats why i feel it got hit, not “the community over hyped/used it”
You also have to think the majority of the community isnt going for optimal dps, or skilled play, they will naturally go for the easiest option, like the railgun on launch, just safe mode 1-2 tap a BT, EVERYONE ran it, or a disproportional amount of people ran it because of how easy it was to use and how effective it was, that isnt to say it still deserves to be where it is now, its a tragic support weapon atm, but thats the only example i could think of on the spot.
I do understand that. But it doesnt mean its better. It means people like using it more. This is the definition of a side grade IMO. And the devs nerfed what people liked using more. The railgun on launch 1 tapped titans based on a bug which has since been fixed. No one talked about how arc thrower or even thermite was 3 shotting titans with the same bug. Those didnt get nerfed.
basically same old same old, but with a couple of inconveniences. stupid nerfs imo. only slowing down the game, and even then just minor setbacks like one less shot a min. they want me to run the stupid disposable rockets so bad, they just never work out for me
Good content, I appreciate your nuance and it’s why I contribute to your community so much. Thanks for your perspective.
i love you loler
Reason I still use quasar over EAT is because if the destroyer leaves I still want to have an option for dealing with bile titans, chargers, etc.
That recharge time on the quasar is abysmal. It went from painful to impractical after the nerf.
6:37 this thought process right here is a huge detriment to the game. Too many people are applying theory to practice.
And the Quasar cannon is not supposed to deal with that by itself, for that people always bring 500KG in combination with eats, recoiless or quasar cannon, but both are different with goods and bads, not an straight up upgrade in every single way.
@@anstorneror just a team of 4 quasar beam one titan every 18 seconds which tbh is quite common on a helldive mission. On top of that, maybe 8 500kg within 2 minutes, not to mention the other stratagem. Support weapon aren’t suppose to be the only thing to kill big target.
As someone who likes and uses the GR-8. why the Quasar got nerfed was many reasons. one mobility not having to stop to reload and not having to sacrifice a backpack slot. two keeps all helldivers in the fight. no need to have a buddy help with reload. and three unlimited ammo
Yeah, I will probably still use it over the EAT. Now it takes a little longer to kill Shrieker nests from a distance, but it is still a very efficient weapon to deal with them.
It is still great against Bile Titans. When at a distance it is free shots to them. When a Titan gets close I usually use the 500kg. The Quasar can deal the last bit of damage to finish the job if the 500kg didn't land perfectly.
Also against drop ships the Quasar seems still good. The charge up time is faster then compared to the call in time of the EAT. Meaning you have more time to destroy a drop ship.
The Quasar will probably also still be great against Gunships.
I think the buddy reload is a cool addition... but it really is just not at all practical. Very rarely are you standing that close to your buddy to be able to do so, and even if you do, that's a good way to get a devastator rocket double kill. It also takes one gun completely out of the fight for the squishies, and a lot of the bugs will knock you out of your reloading animation when you get hit. Not to mention, unless you're playing with a very very sweet player, it's hard to ask someone else to carry your backpack for you.
one change would be simply to allow your buddy to reload from your own backpack. even then, it's so rare that you can walk right up next to your friend while getting swarmed. And the RR will send you flying if you tare trying to get up close from behind lol
@@aaronvoss38 A dev has actively said to someone "Not all mechanics are meant to be viable at all difficulties, its just kinda there for fun" to someone asking team reloads to be made more viable at higher difficulties. Which is especially messed up when you take into consideration how much the distinctly don't want there to be a meta... and not having things be viable at different difficulties is literally a design philosophy that feeds into there specifically being a meta (which is somewhat silly in the first place because there is always going to be a meta, something will always be marginally better). Generally speaking though, the team reloads tend to not be worth the loss of a teammate covering you with a gun. On top of that, it is very uninteractive gameplay for the loader and you also get detached incredibly easily which makes it a pain.
Recoiless probably has the best case to make use of the team reload, and honestly I think all it really would need is for the teammate to pull a shell out of the RR owner's backpack instead of needing to wear it. It realistically would be easier for the loader to do it that way imo from an ergonomics standpoint (as compared to reaching for something on your own back behind you, you would have more people willing to team reload because they dont have to give up their own backpack slot, and it would mean that the RR owner doesnt run into a situation where he cant reload alone (obviously you can give someone the extra/old backpack on second support drop, but having to wait for that kinda sucks imo).
I loved the eruptor for its power to clear bot patrols, your experience here makes it sound like it's now very shit at doing that... I dont like that at all tbh but the power to use your primary for fabricators is just too good to pass up atm
I agree, its power level of what it used to be is much lower, but in its current state its not a bad gun. I also loved using it and am sad its changed.
And I should read pinned comments lmao
hey to be fair they literally sent that 5 minutes before I posted this. so lol.
The Eruptor has always been about having (essentially) a support weapon as your primary, opening up options for a support stratagem, e.g. HMG, MG, Stalwart (something for mob clearing). All this patch has done is make it less OP, which is fine. Clearing tight groups was more of a bonus, but I'm perfectly happy with it being more specialized now.
@@RaineJT but i like my support weapon to be able to take out heavies, and now i basically dont have a primary anymore, just my heavy killing support weapon and my factory killing prmary...
The Eruptor and Crossbow were basically gutted when they removed the AoE. They need to re-introduce "FUN!" as a main goal rather than spreadsheeting everything to be the same quality or DPS.
Eruptor got a big nerf vs striders: it's already a slow firing weapon so you'd proly die if you miss but I'd used to be able to take down 3 together in one go, now it's 2 shots for each
If you hit the "slit" the driver looks through it still one taps them
It says a lot when a weapon gets it's time to kill bigger enemies reduced by around 50% and it's still trash.
The buff to Scout Striders getting more explosive resistance was also an indirect nerf to the Eruptor. It was the main reason I brought it for bots tbh. I could take the lowered explosion radius, but with it now mostly taking 2 shots to kill a Strider it's lost one of its biggest selling points.
It's crazy to me how few people are realising this because until the Eruptor, Striders were easily my most hated enemy to come across a group of.
whoever in charge of the balancing department never actually get instead of nerfing weapon just buff the weapon that is underperforming.
The crossbow was garbage and now it's more garbage.No fun to use it anyway
The point of the Quasar Cannon nerf was to make it more punishing. It already has the ability to fire and forget and get shooting. The Recoilless can put shots out more quickly but is more dedicated AT since you have to reload so much. This is plenty fair imo and even EAT takes a while to come back after you shoot (though EAT is crazy still)
Like lets not even consider the fact that everyone can have a quasar on cooldown with a explosive primary to deal with the chaff, its just crazy effective even with 15s cooldown
EDIT: An actual substantial nerf would have been it needing a backpack slot, some recharge thing or whatever. This 15s thing is really minimal IMHO, we have teammates and other stratagem to help. No reload is HUGE
Recoilless got majorly buffed this patch. It lost its ammo bug, and fully resupplies with the upgrade. They also removed the 3rd part of the reload so it got a reload speed buff. EAT is a support style launcher. Against bugs run it along side flamethrower. Use flamethrower to kill chargers and all mobs, only calldown EAT for titans. Also if you practice enough the call down will hit as hard as a rocket itself giving you 3 shots per minute. Same as quasar with some skill lol.
Also I said Quasar was like a low A against bugs, but B against bots. I think all rockets in general are worse against bots. Those are still high rankings.
@@thiccfilaI do think that if you only have one guy dedicated to hard AT the recoilless is great to be on top of things, better if you have people you can coordinate dropping your backpack to at times to keep you goinh in tight situations.
But if you have a lot of people going heavy AT the Quasar just gets better and better since the recharge penalty is less of a big deal the more people are running it or other heavy AT. Having 3 or 4 quasars running around just negates the downside of it.
Just depends on what others are bringing.
That's exactly what people thinks, just cordinate and no big deal, but forget this game isn't played with 4 friends all the time, you play with randoms, it is hard to cordinate with randoms, that's why i fucking hate the "nerf mentality" people have, put them with 3 random people low-medium skills and they will change their chirp in no time.
@@thiccfilaThe EAT still has the downside that you need to stay near the place you called it in, which can be a problem if a hulk is marching towards you. The Quasar meanwhile just passively cools down and you can keep running/killing enemies
Also considering how the game plot is made by community and devs irl, they can legitimately say that weapon nerfs are actually weapon sabotage by cyberstan inflitrators or treason committing sympathizers.
(No I don't need to see nearest democracy officer, they need to up the vetting program for weapon manufacturers, else they are supporters of enemies of democracy and need to be "liberated" themselves)
you know what makes me sad? the community is partially at fault for them devs being such pricks at balancing the game... skimming through the comments, I've notice like half of the folks are unhealthily concerned w/ how other folk are playing the game.. (and b4 someone points out, no.. I don't know if is half, I didn't count, there are enough to me noticeable so around half it is)
personally I don't really care what weapons my teammates choose, as long as they don't keep killing me w/ those... as for buffs and nerfs, sure, it is necessary, specially when it comes to "new" additions to the game... but I'll say it again, the way them devs are going about balance is just wrong for this game in particular... the arsenal should be balanced dividing weapons in semi-defined groups (meaning loose groups): some guns are supposed to be trash (by definition, not all can't be "the best"), some should be niche (for specific situations/mission types/loadouts/etc) and, more importantly, some should be viable to take on the highest difficulty (cuz otherwise WTAF)... but arrowhead seem overly concerned on _how_ players are playing the game vs _if_ players are having fun... and no, is not all doom and gloom, game still fun therefore I still play it... but what really annoys me is that every 1-2 weeks they chance the balance of some stuff that should be very low priority vs patching some VERY annoying bugs and issues w/ the game... sure crashing has become less of an issue, but guess what, game still disconnects consistently, social tab still not working properly (since launch) on a supposedly multiplayer game, enemies clip through stuff while we players get stuck on invisible stuff, and other issues, on top of every new issue they introduce w/ those, again supposedly, fix patches... but above all the focking stealth changes to harmless stuff, like the map marking!!! WTAF, most folks either don't know, or weren't even using it, and was a neat thing to be able to do, and arguably not ground breaking...
QC's biggest thing was not taking up the backpack slot....
RR's worst aspect was its hellish reload on top of needing a backpack.... it feels like trying to make the RR more useful by hamstringing the QC... so for those of us who still refuse the backpack are going to use EAT's or juggle QC to avoid cooldowns
I don't completely agree. The Quasar was always ridiculously strong, with way more advantages than disadvantages. No packpack, meaning you can bring a Rover to kill hundreds of Hunters and other trash automatically, or a shield for significantly better survival, or a jump pack or whatever. No ammo, so you can never run out. The recharge time was long, but you are completely free to reposition and use your other weapons and stratagems during that time. No static reload here, locking you in place (which is often a death sentence). Once you fire both EATs, you're done for over a minute. Those two bile titans and four chargers you mention? The EAT is even worse at dealing with those than the Quasar. So I think the nerf was to be expected, given how dominant it was, honestly. I still think it's extremely viable - if you have a lot of big armoured targets to kill, use your strikes. That is what they are for, in my opinion.
While I agree, a 50% increase on it's recharge seems like a bit much.
I feel like increasing it by 2 or 3 seconds instead of 5would have weakened it without making it feel significantly worse.
@@Mischievous_Moth I dont believe its an problem, You still dont have to recharge with it and you have infinite ammo, therefore you never have to worry about ammo at any single point which matters alot at higher difficulties with bugs, since you get runned over all of the time leaving no time to reload (Airburst rocket, Recoiless rifle, HMG).
And you are not supposed to kill every single tank with 1 weapon, you still have stratagems which usually is the 500kg.
@@Mischievous_MothA quasar shot every 15 seconds is still more than twice the amount of shots you get with the EAT. And it has no stationary reload nor backpack slot unlike the recoilless rifle.
ThiccFilA is delusional about the Quasar. He refuses to accept that a weapon that 50% of players brought to every mission was the better antitank option.
@@brilobox2 It was. EATs had a minute cooldown every two shots and required a strat code and hellpod travel time. Quasar was doing more while staying on your back, recharging in your offhand, and only required distance and some time to deliver what required more effort than all the other. Just compare RR to Quasar, literally only advantage was teamload and point and shoot and one of those is giving away 100% of dps from a player to priority target- which usually isn't worth it.
With any gun nerfs the biggest traitor to democracy is Arrowhead
I thought the railgun changes were pretty neat, but I guess I didn't notice just how many shots it still takes to down the big threats. Considering the risk of unsafe mode it definitely still has some ways to go.
I blew myself up a couple times doing these tests lol. It takes a lot of concentration to let off that many against a factory strider xD. And you have to get it near the cap to take them down with the numbers I said.
"we have a hotfix coming this week, maybe in just a few days."
yah, thats generally how a week works.
lol leave me alone when im rambling for the video xD
I’m convinced arrowhead nerfs stuff based on popularity alone just like Bungie does. If it’s popular among the community it gets nerfed, without any consideration for why people were using that weapon over all the others in the first place.
I kinda agree tbh. They say they want good balance, but then do better testing and dont release obviously strong ash stuff.
Nerfs in a pve game to me is just absurd. Let us have fun. Nerf the weapon when something’s is undeniably strong but if it’s popular let it be
Devs have survivorship bias, that's the problem.
@@Cloneme12 then the game would be too easy therefore boring
@@redfish6549 If the game is too easy than play on higher difficulty, simple fix without nerfing weapons we love.
Iv always found the Crossbow to be decent vs Medium enemies if you can nail them in the Head. Seems like it 1 taps Devastators for example. It does Suck that it lost its AOE potential though, cus it was nice to have. I'm not surprised the Quasar Cannon got NERFED since EVERYONE was bringing it, and At least ONE PERSON Iv dropped with every single Dive will be carrying a Quasar, and it was always a Quasar.
The Railgun (just came from other videos talking about it too), it CAN do alot of things it could do before, but its not the "End ALL be ALL" it used to be. Like you can 1 Tap Scout Walkers and Hulks with a Safe Mode shot now, and alot of bug enemies in safe mode.
I use an all-Las build (Quasar, Sickle, Dagger and Guard Dog Rover) with Impact Grenades, Autocannon Sentries and Mortar Sentries.
The Quasar being nerfed still feels fine for me; I just find that I have to reposition a bit more thoughtfully whenever the first shot fails to get the job done.
The Sickle being nerfed does not feel any different to me at all; I have never overheated it more than twice before I found an ammo pickup and thus the reduction of its total magazine count is irrelevant to my playstyle.
The Dagger being buffed feels amazing for me now; I can now use it to do things beyond letting my Sickle cool down.
The Guard Dog Rover being nerfed is a double-edged sword; I now have less worries of it critically harming myself or my teammates, but I am significantly less protected from melee enemies than I used to be.
I think Arrowhead missed a great opportunity to make the buffs and nerfs more lore based and not just another patch note.
Like when the railgun got nerfed they could have had a message pop up saying, "Attention Helldiver's. Our scientists have been looking into reports from across the galaxy that our Helldiver's are having to spend more than normal amounts of ammo while in safe mode. In our research we have discovered our enemies have evolved to be more resistant to the safe mode velocity of the railgun. Until our scientist finds a solution we recommend turning safe mode off to continue to spread the maximum amount of democracy."
The Quasar adjustment was fine for me. I always bring disposable anti tank along with it anyway. But most of the times I like the good old reliable Auto Cannon.
Falloff with the eruptor felt like a blessing in disguise oddly enough but the quasar cannon change felt insanely backhanded and oftentimes the UI doesn't even adapt to the new charge rate meaning it can say your weapon is no longer overheated but the timer is still going.
Hot take but the Xbow should be a high skill heavy pen primary capable of taking out chargers/titans with 5ish headshots but super low aoe and a lower firerate
Would give it a unique role other than just being a worse eruptor
Can’t agree on the Crossbow if I’m honest, The drop is manageable enough and the projectile speed reduced the damage fall off enough that it now can 1hko a Devastator headshot from 60m out. The front sight is accurate over 300m. It staggers those Devastators on a miss something Scorcher can’t do. And it beats out the scorcher on those breakpoints despite the lower mag size. Not important for most but that explosive AoE reduction reduced how loud the explosions was, while still maintaining the fatal damage it deals to light bots on a mission. If you kill a Devastator within a base, the base will not react with an alert, they won’t even investigate half the time. It now has a very unique identity in the western front and I’d encourage giving it another chance to impress 👍 Solid video though m8
The only places the quasar "nerf" is felt is when taking out things like the shrieker nests, or when the game decides to mass dump chargers and bile titans your way... Other than that, NO DIFFERENCE! Calm down people!
Just be a little more patient with your shots in those moments.
I always drop in EATs (expendable anti tank) anyway cause the frequency of hulks and the like.
Exactly. The thing still hits 3 times per minute vs the EAT 2. And it can charge while using other weapons and not having to reload. And infinite ammo.
It was honestly not a side choice to the others but pretty much better than them. Now it’s closer to a side choice.
There are actual dumb decisions in this patch and everyone is obsessed with the Quasar still being the best AT option in almost every aspect but now slightly less so. So frustrating. Ricochet change was stupid, Hulk stagger resist was stupid, fiddling with the Eruptor and Crossbow AoE was stupid. Everything else is good, I think.
@@brilobox2I haven’t gotten a chance fight against bots since the patch, but I’m not too worried about the Hulk stagger resist. The ricochet though is killing people left and right. I’m getting tagged from teammates that are way far away.
That and the rather large increase of mission breaking bugs.
The quasar nerf would have been fine if not for the fact that shrieker nests and now spore spewers have increased HP.
Dawg is defo still S-Tier... Dawg + QC is still FINE! The wind up is a pain though and does make the nerf more impactful! GET THAT QUASAR IN A!
honestly, i would be fine with the quasar nerf if only they allowed for a second person to 'load' as support, where they reduce the charge/cooldown time by like 75%. Take away its solo power, make it a teamwork gun.
Its a whole 5 second cooldown time... Stop crying
I’m still using the erupted to me it’s still easily S tier and you can still rapid fire it by pressing the stratagem button in between shots to shoot super fast
Eruptor is as good as it used to be in oneshoting brood commanders and bile spewers. Yeah, less crowd control, but for me it's not a problem
Quasar now just shoots less frequently. Still awesome weapon
Laser guard dog - didn't notice any changes at all
Fire damage - idk if they charge overall damage or only dealt to the player, but flamethrower still rocks
Also, blitzer is now a viable option, punisher plasma became more comfortable, Adjudicator feels sooo good. Overall, best update since the release of the game
Eruptor is way better after this patch! Imagine, you just turn to side... And see a Stalker! And you blast it. In this patch you might be lunched away from him (HOORAY!), but before this patch you would shot that Stalker, and then french kiss him. Why? Because somehow explosions in Arrowhead pulls stuff towards explosion. Same way person assisting reload can only reach his backpack, even if other persons backpack is closer/easier to reach.
@@Sarunastm yeah, forgot to mention it. So much more comfortable
@@Sarunastm To be fair that isn't just an eruptor "buff", that was a bug fix which included the other explosive weapons
You are a nerf apologist, this patch gutted the game.
@@wesmo_ You’re crying on every video. Get some help.
It's always a huge problem when devs try to balance a game on the top players. I've had games where the best player killed 500 enemies and a player who walked with the best player the whole game had 40. When you balance on the peak possible performance the games become stress instead of fun when you also base this on: we want to force 4 good performing players. In a game with more random team ups than less this is questionable at best annoying and demotivating at the worst.
That's exactly my point in most of those nerf situations, they never take in consideration that most of us play with with 3 randoms instead of friends, making it hard to cordinate, some idiot on facebook just meh you just have to cordinate with everyone, like it is fucking hard to make 1 person listen, much less 3 of them, i bet most of the player base isn't 4 a closed 4 team that plays on diff 7-9.
High kill count doesn't show "best" performance. It actually reflects on how much time you waste on fighting needlessly and can't be bothered avoiding patrols.
I kinda blame streamers for flexing on solo helldive, and giving a lot of the players the impression that's how the game should be played.
I can totally understand how +5 second cooldown on quasar would be a massive issue on solo helldive.
@@gameshoes It's not needless if someone's having fun shooting enemies, that's kind of a big part of the game...
@@TheLizardKing752 then having fun should not be measured as was initially imposed. You're not making a point at all with this.
I really don't understand the community's dislike of the railgun, despite the nerfs, it literally demolishes half the body of heavy automatons in one thrust shot, leaving only the legs of the enemies. No weapon allows you to kill medium-armored enemies so quickly without spending half of the magazine on aimed fire at weak points.
The 30% "nerf" to the guard dog is less than 30% of a nerf to the guard dog *pre-patch,* because the gun the guard dog uses, the scythe, got a damage *buff.*
So it's 30% off the new, higher damage scythe.
You tested the wrong guard dog...They nerfed the one that uses bullets not the Rover variant. Its right there in the patch notes on steam
That was a typo
Every complaint I hear about the Quasar nerf is just what the other AT launchers have to deal with. "Missing your shots being punishing" is even more punishing for the Recoilless, Spear, and EAT, as they have to deal with ammo. And you don't even have to stay still to reload, you can swap to your primary and mow down chaff while it cools down. And it doesn't even take up a backpack slot, which is a massive upside compared to the Recoilless and Spear. It was a well deserved nerf for an overtuned weapon
As a recoilless and spear main I think those weapons are fun and very effective on helldive. (spear not as consistently xD)
But I respect your opinion. Recoilless stonks went through the roof this patch.
To be fair, the SPEAR isn't SUPPOSED to miss because that thing is bugged to hell and back, and recoilless suffers from being an EAT with reloads (and thus a much longer redeploy cooldown) that you have to stay stationary for or have a buddy with your backpack on. Frankly it would've been better if the SPEAR was less bugged and the Recoilless had some sort of damage/AP buff than a Quasar nerf
Spear is just flat broken.
So that's why the Quasar suddenly feels like it's cooldown takes forever. I had no idea they nerfed it.
I completely disagree with people saying the quasar nerf is bad. You take a cannon that can also have a backpack and be able to run around while charging over something that needs a backpack and a stationary reload that shoots quicker.
Eats was already better, the nerf is bad you just don’t use it so you don’t care.
@simplyfitness892 eats was vastly inferior and it's not even close. 2 shots every 70 seconds and a call down time and location vs 4-5 shots while mobile recharge. There's no way you play 9s if you think eat was better.
The devs wont stop till all the weapons suck and we only can use one stratagem wtf. F the devs
yeah ok lol
I think a lot of people don't realise that the Quasar takes 0 functional braincells to use and that is by far its biggest power point. People like to call it a "sidegrade" to EATs and RR when that's simply not true, it was better in every situation than both of these 90% of the time. A direct upgrade in most ways. It frees your back slot, you call it in once and done, it has infinite ammo.
Compare it properly to the other two AT's against bugs for once. EATs are strong because of their short cooldown and the fact you get two of them. Every 70 seconds you can kill a titan or 2-3 chargers. However you need to actually call them in every time and when you're running around kiting multiple chargers and 1-3 titans you need to not only account for this, but the fact you have to pick them both up as well. This takes time and it requires planning out where you can efficiently drop them in so you don't lose one or both of them to the horde. EATs are great but they require strategic placement and management of time in the middle of the clusterfuck of patrols, bug breaches, etc. Quasar does not need ANY of this, you have it on your back and you shoot it when you need to. Then you do it again 15 seconds later. Even post-nerf, Quasar can still kill more things on average than EATs can. You can very easily still fire it three times per minute and you barely have to think about it. Another balancing point of the Quasar is its wind-up before shots, but this applies to EATs too a lot of the time too because pulling an EAT from your back won't let you insta-fire it as you need to ready the launcher for use for a couple of seconds first, comparable to charging up a Quasar shot. Quasar is still better, but it's now much closer to a sidegrade than a direct upgrade in almost every way.
RR on the other hand is a whole other can of beans. It's reliable, simple to use, strong, has lots of ammo and (finally) decent ammo economy. The downsides are no backpacks and a slow stationary reload. Just like the EATs, it requires strategic use so you don't waste precious seconds when you don't need to. Against bugs on 7-9, having no backpack like a drone, shield or jetpack can be very tough although it's obviously balanced out by letting you bring another stratagem so that's nice. The stationary reload is where the main crux of the RR lies, and while it's rarely an issue when you come across the odd charger here and there, good luck using it efficiently when there are multiple on you as well as a titan or two, and a horde of hunters, spewers, shirekers and so on. Maybe you shoot a titan in the head once. Maybe you kill one of the 2 chargers. But now you need to reload. You start the animation but then there's a hunter on you and you need to dodge then take time killing it and whatever else has come too close in the meantime, and if any of those are that second charger or the titan you just shot then you also need to kite/relocate before you can finish reloading. A quick shot and reload that could've taken around 5 seconds has suddenly turned into 10, or 20, or even 30 - and even then it might still not be reloaded yet. Quasar on the other hand? It was ready to fire 15 seconds ago, hell maybe you even DID fire it then and guess what, now you're a titan down and it's ready to fire a third time. Yet again, Quasar faces none to very little difficulty in that same scenario. It slows you down none whatsoever while recharging, allowing you to safely relocate and deal with smaller bugs after every shot. Yes the 15 second recharge sounds extremely long, but come on, how often are you realistically gonna fire the RR twice in 15 seconds when there are more than 1 or 2 heavy armor targets pressing W on you?
Quasar is still better than RR, but again, it's now closer to being just a sidegrade rather than a direct upgrade in almost every way. People who say Quasar is F-tier trash now have no idea what they're talking about. It's still very much S-tier.
The railgun changes is all the evidence I needed. These guys legitimately don't understand what they're doing or how to make healthy changes. It's 1 step forward two steps back, or 1/32 of a step forward and ignore the core issues of particular guns.
I used the eruptor before the nerf and always loved it and i still use Md love it now. 30 ammo is still more than enough and i never run out of ammo. Only people who think it's trash clearly never liked the gun.
No, it was, and most likely will be, my favourite gun. It's just that I was that guy in a stack who cleared both the trash and mid enemies, considering how eruptor is good against devastators. That sucked up a lot more ammo than for other people it seems, for longer fights I've been left with 4-5 mags out of 12 pretty frequently.
I also may have used the quick swap method to shoot faster. That may have had something to do with my experience.
My main gun since it released.
It was perfectly balanced and they ruined it for no reason.
@@AoGbeverage16 Thank you. Also people saying cutting the ammo in half is ok. It's not lol. I would run out of ammo all the time on high difficulties when we would split into 2 teams
@@irshman1845yeah same with most other guns that aren't the sickle and scythe, it's natural, just finish your objectives quickly and regroup for resupply or get lucky and find natural ammo supplies on the field
Strong disagreement on yout railgun assessment. You're pigeon-holing the weapon and comparing it against its bugged, previous version instead of looking at what it can do efficiently now. Against bots, one shotting hulks, contributing damage against harder targets and evaporating all types of devs including the hated hev dev, plus easy two shot leg strips versus chargers on the bug front and your back slot free? That's a solid weapon. I would put it in B tier at least. Maybe you'd prefer the AMR over it or the laser cannon, but the weapon is FAR from useless.
Against bugs why would you bring a railgun for chargers, for it to tickle titans, for it to only take out a few mediums - when you can just not tickle titans and bring a flamethrower or arc thrower for chargers and the rest.
Against bots, why bring it for hulks, when another weapon with no backpack slot like amr or laser cannon deal with hulk slightly slower, but can actually wreck factory striders and gun ships. Railgun cant deal with either of those at a fast pace.
Railgun also 3 shots chargers to the face. I had a a ton of fun with it yesterday
In my experience the railgun rn is just meh, it’s a subpar weapon in like 90% of situations, i get that it’s trying to be a all around weapon but it deals too little dmg to bile titan to be called an all rounder, so running specialised loadout for medium will almost always be better, plus it’s riskier than the flamethrowers coz it way harder to use when trying to kill chargers when getting swarmed, for bots it excels at taking out hulks which I appreciate but that’s about it
@@thiccfila You're not bringing the railgun against titans. You're bringing it as a support weapon to thin out chargers and punch through medium bugs at range. Against bots, you're bringing it against hulks and devs and it deals with both brilliantly, plus its able to deal chip damage against armoured targets if teammates hit them with Anti-armour weapons but don't kill. Its not trash, its B tier.
@@thiccfila Gotta agree wtih BetaKrogoth here, at least for bots. The amr taking 2 shots to hulk faceplates to kill is more of a detriment than it sounds like when the amr scope is still misalaigned and has way more recoil and worse ergonomics. It's the difference of maybe a couple seconds to kill a hulk which can be the difference between life and death. Laser cannon takes ~3 secs to the faceplate to kill a hulk assuming you're perfectly accurate and also has worse handling than the railgun. The railgun can now one tap a hulk in SAFE MODE which takes like 0.5 - 1sec to charge and is wayyy easier to aim than amr or laser. For gunships, you can bring a scorcher to compensate and for factory striders, just use stratagems. So ya, definitely not a trash weapon by any means for bots.
Edit: I'll also add that the railgun 1 taps striders from the front which is also a huge plus and is a bigger deal than it sounds like as striders can get really pesky otherwise. AMR can take anywhere from 2-4 shots for striders and laser is going to a longer ttk for them as well. Hell, even the autoannon doesn't always 1 tap striders (which is SUPER ANNOYING when it happens).
Bro, do the math quasar 3 shots per min
Anti tank 2 shots per min
quasar is still the better anti tank
I think an important benefit of the Quasar that you aren't mentioning is the fact that not only can you move while it's "reloading"(unlike almost all the other anti tank weapons), but you can holster it and do other things. So unlike every other support weapon in the game, your DPS doesn't have to drop while it's recharging.
You can call in reinforcements, work on the objective, kill that devastator with your primary, close a bug hole, etc. All while having a support weapon with infinite ammo, that also doesn't take up a back pack slot.
Maybe ill end up being wrong, but at first glance the nerf definitely seems warranted.
those who don't understand why nerfs exist in PVE games proves the point that the general player base should not be devs. Just bringing other things up to the power of outliers usually makes the game less fun in the long run. In a game where each tool is to have a specific niche, something that basically a end all be all weapon is very bad for a game like helldivers 2.
Issue is that there is still a lot of weapons/stratagems that are utterly worthless and others that are blatant upgrades to similar counterparts. People want the liberator to be just as good as the sickle, or just as good as the sheer damage output of most shotguns.
Iono if I agree with this lupvirga. You have games like borderlands with op cracked guns that they rarely ever touch. And the game remains fun because the game is geared towards players having fun with loot that you can find. We are given loot gear through war bonds so if I’m buying this I feel like it should be stronger than anything I started with. If we making games for fun nerfing is always the wrong direction
@@Cloneme12that's because it's a looter shooter, you have to find the good stuff or grind for it and are rewarded for doing so, you still start with the worst weapons in the game and only get the overpowered stuff much later on. that's the difference, you Don't start with a definite worse weapon at the start of helldivers the liberator and peacemaker is your good ol' reliable against the light targets, the machine gun has medium pen and deals with medium and heavy targets pretty decently and the orbital precision strike can one shot a BT.
An example of a game that only buffed your weapons, is pvz 2, winter melon was meta but practically every other plant could make the game a cake walk as you could level them up, the pvz community made mods for pvz2 making it harder because it was so boring before
Borderlands is a looter shooter that increases in difficulty as the game goes on, helldivers is a game with consistent difficulty between the enemies and the higher difficulty just has more of them,
Borderlands has a lot of weapons for you to choose from and some wacky and powerful that gives you a power fantasy,
Helldivers give you multiples option for weapons for your preference, something is not infinitely worse or better because they are built for different needs, the quasar can't deal with a horde of enemies as well as the heavy machine gun, the sickle has infinite ammo but a limited mag pool so can't mag dump like the liberator as much, that gives a since of military, if you think helldivers is a power fantasy your dead wrong, you have the same health as an automaton grunt stop thinking you can walk in and blow everything up, you don't need to fight when you can just run to the next objective, if you can't do that and their blocking your way, blow them up quickly and then run before the reinforcements arrive, when they do arrive you should be gone not fighter more because if it takes too long you have even more reinforcements arriving
@@simplycookie3315 you think nerfs is the way to go
@@mauroghen9157what stratagem is completely useless? Smoke? No that's great for cover, rocket pods? Sure inaccurate but great at dealing with multiple bot fabricators, orbital strike? That can kill a bile titan in one hit, what about the 380mm barrage? Nope with the ship upgrade that can take out entire heavy automaton bases,
Ok ok what about the weapons and backpack like the jump pack? The only mobility backpack that can get you to high ground and speed through the map with, ok the guard dog? better at dealing with medium and heavies then the rover, starwalt? An excellent option for small and medium targets while you have let's say the eruptor on you for heavy, on and on and on you get it, well maybe the machine gun turret is worse than the gattling, oh I know the rocket sentry is worse than the auto cannon sentry, maybe in terms of damage but rhe auto cannon sentry is so slow at turning it can't deal with enemies from more than one angle very well, plus rockets are a lot easier to not die from.
Railgun is still bad but its finally usable so it will now be my main again welcome back
hardly bad, it's an anti-everything gun that finally got it's safe mode back to where it should have always been.
From experience and plenty of frame counting, the Railgun still takes 1s to charge per stage, starting with safe charge which fills up to 5/7 marked bars, 6/7, 7/7, then the last unmarked full charge leeway bar, before ending with a reload. As such the RoF has not been reduced.
Also discounting the cross-play bug, pre nerf 10 headshots was standard for the Railgun taking out Titans, you claim 11 currently but also claim 21 prior when other evidence shows 19, so potentially fewer. As such besides Stagger the Railgun has basically been reverted to its pre-nerf form.
Also, as much as I love the Quasar, it was about twice as good ammo wise than the competition with the added benefit of not needing to actively reload making it more convenient, reliable, and safer.
EAT: .5s TTK vs Charger due to animation, 1s vs Titan, 1.9 shots /min
RR: .1s TTK vs Charger, 6.2-1.6s (team reload) vs Titan, .83-1.95-3.08 shots /min (0 - 2.7 Half - 2.7 Full Resupply /7.2min)
Old QC: 3s TTK Charger, 16s vs Titan, 4.61 shots /min
New QC: 3s TTK Charger, 21s vs Titan, 3.33 shots /min
And for comparison:
Old RG: 11s TTK Charger (3 7/7 shots), 75s TTK vs Titan (19 7/7 shots), shots /min below.
New RG: 8s TTK Charger (3 6/7 shots), 35s TTK vs Titan (12 6/7 Shots, courtesy of Crazymrpipz, so might be faster or slower than theory), 2.91-6.66-10.79 shots /min (0 - 2.7 Half - 2.7 Full Resupply /7.2min).
Railgun is definitely a Heavy Pen weapon again now capable of breaking the Charger leg with 5 Safe shots, but with its ammo count and TTK it's clearly intended as a General Purpose more than an AT Weapon, able to typically deal with Heavies faster than most Medium Pen weapons can, while having more ammo and higher RoF than AT Weapons to deal with Mediums.
The primary benefit of every energy weapon is efficiency, not depending on ammo.
Energy weapons should never out DPS munitions based weaponry, if they did no one would ever pick anything else.
Therefore, the Quasar being a "sidegrade" to other anti tank options, is realistically an upgrade. It needed nerfed.
I'm so sick of all the nerfs. Quasar feels shit now, it takes eternal to fire again, literally not fun to use
Is waiting 5 seconds really that bad when you may have 3 other players? It’s bad if you’re on your own I get but you have infinite ammo on a very easy to use long range weapon.
@@speedyazi5029 it's not 5s. It's 15s! 10s was long enough, a whopping 50% increase in cd is just insane. 15s is literally eternal in a fast paced shooting game
Eternal? Dude it hardly feels different, it already has infinite ammo and doesn’t need a backpack. What, you can’t hold on for a few more secs? 😂
@@Pika-ck7ww if the recharge *really* feels too slow for you then try EATs
Oooh noooo you have to breath a few extra times to fire again… In a vacuum 15s vs 10s is significant, but sometimes there are billions of trash enemies that you have to wipe before you have the chance to shoot again. And sure enough, more than 15s passed.
You all will get use to it ffs, but ya go ahead and complain more
The devs seem borderline incompetent when it comes to weapon balance unfortunately. They don't seem to have a clear vision for the niche that these weapons are supposed to fill.
Wholeheartedly agree. Why make all weapons useful when you can make none useful
I feel as if they did, but they react to players using stuff too easily.
- Difficulty tab
- Put 6
- Stop talking about dev balance i ply every loadout cuz i love playing various option, the only option that need buff is termite grenade actually every other option stratagem as weapon are actually usable in a good way if you have a vision for you'r team. if you want to play a single loadout and don't adapte to the team stuff, you can just change the difficulty or play another game, you don't fit this one
They do have a vision: anything with a higher pick rate than other weapons gets nerfed into oblivion.
xD if you'r good at the game you know this patch is really good.
Let’s be honest. Some of the devs are taking this shit so personally and maybe they need a break, hell we’ve become QA testers at this point. I’m not smart enough to be a dev, but they get attitudes with people who have legitimate concerns and criticisms. That shit pisses me off especially cuz the game has been a breath of fresh air and the ceo has been based af, to the point where he’s stepping down to become creative director or something. Good on him because it’s his baby, and these devs couldn’t care less, some of them.
Much appreciation. I'm about to start a deep dive into ANOTHER game with a huge patch dropping - Total War Warhammer III - and there are only so many minutes in the day, so it's been informative and entertaining to hear your views about the changes to weapons.
The only reason I think everyone loves the quasar is because they had never used the recoilless before, I always take recoilless with EAT's and you can drop 2 bile titans solo with ease. I don't take air strikes as they are too inconsistent.
Optimal engagement, for double bile titan kill, Throwdown EAT's, headshot bile titan with recoilless, reload recoilless, EAT's land, use one EAT to finish bile titan, use second EAT to headshot second bile, finish second bile off with recoilless, you can get this combo out extremely fast, you can also throw down an autocannon sentry to pick up the slack for missing a headshot. Take Gatling sentry to mop up the smaller bugs so they don't bother you and finally take stun grenades to stop chargers running through your sentry.
The impact of removing bile titans this quickly is massive.
Have you gotten a chance to try the airburst vs shriekers? I'm curious how effective it is against them.
It's kinda shit. Very situational and just not worth the slot it takes up.
15:56 That’s been happening to me too! Since the new update, the Eruptor will occasionally instant-kill me when firing it at short-to-medium range.
It seems like the devs are just overthinking everything and just nerfing because they think they have to. Its like they have a quota to meet in having to nerf at least 2 weapons a month 😂
They said the patch will be big, now it's long enought that fixed nothing of importance, just made even more people pissed and quit the game.
Just so everyone is aware, the person balancing the weapons is the same person that killed Hello Neighbour.
Honestly, they should just give the rail gun a flat damage value, remove unsafe mode, and just have charge level up shift it's armor penetration. With a flat damage value it would gain consistency. And it's trade off would be similar to the quasar, in that you need to invest time that would otherwise be used for damage up time into getting higher charged shot. It's just not fun having a weapon that can blow you up just because you need to get near max charge just for it to be barely viable, and as someone who's color blind, it;s a real bitch to tell when I'm about to blow myself up in the heat of the moment.
As someone who already didn't like the quasar cannon due to that charge, I'm mildly happy that people might not treat it as the greatest thing since sliced bread anymore.
I freaking hate those quasar haters. It was a great secondary weapon, not for its power or infinite ammo, but for its great adaptability to make a build with it as you said.
When you play sólo, and go rogue or join a party of strangers, it was a great option for those who does not know exactly how team builds work, and as you said, as long as you get a good main weapon to switch between and maintain your position, you should be able to contribute in the mission, be it doing it solo or helping teammates.
The eruptor nerf was something I knew was gonna happen... a lock rifle with explosive ammo making us old fossils remember the AWM in the old classic CS?? Damn, that was a good feeling, but it was too convenient of a primary weapon: powerful and also useful for objectives.
Its funny how they try to develop somewhat overall use weapons but they fail to balance it at the beggining. Then they create some amazing overall weapons like the eruptor or the quasar and people start crying because everyone uses it. Democracy did not take into account how delicate are SuperEarth kiddos from 7 to 21 yo.
It's actually sad how weak did they make the crossbow and how OP they made punisher plasma. Blitzer is finally fun to use and very potent too, for being a gun with infinite ammo, perfect place for it. But punisher plasma literally became OP, it was awesome and underrated before the buff, huge area of effect, fast shotspeed, good reserves, high damage, stagger, it was literally perfect for clearing bot patrols and not getting erased by heavy devastators face to face, since you actually pierce their shields and able to kill them before your mag runs out, unlike with scorcher which needs 2 mags and this is critical with heavy devastators, because give them even a single second to start fire in melee and you're dead. Now it's even crazier because scorcher can't kill striders by shield shots which was it's main purpose of bringing it in for bots ngl, they made it 100 times easier to use with the faster projectile speed, and they made the explosion's damage dropoff less. like wtf, they removed the skill gap of using the gun, which was the main factor people didn't like to run it and also buffed the aoe damage? while the crossbow struggles with killing the weakest medium enemies, that's crazy.
i agree with your sentiment with the crossbow
but plasma punisher is still not op. it does roughly the same damage as the scourcher but with way less shots and rate of fire. if the draw back to the scorcher is limited ammo (an actual joke of an excuse) then the pp is a meme. it does feel good to use. but Honestly feels like the cross bow did pre nerf but smaller radius and no head shot potential for skill expression.
theres no reason the pp should take a similar amount of hits to kill devistators that the scourcher does when one is automatic and the other is pump action and half the clip size. currently imo pp is now just a less effective pre patch crossbow that lets you fire faster but with only 8 mags😭
also scorcher aiming at the hip still works, which isn't hard to do for a automatic weapon with good handling. pp needs two face plate shots instead of 1 or aim in The same area as scorcher but is much harder to do with a lob weapon, especially on a moving target
I had absolutely no issue with any of the nerfs, and I'm a field sniper by trade. I carry either a AMR or an Eruptor at all times. I tend to always be precise though, so I never felt it. I feel like the ammo changes were to make fewer one man armies calling down supplies across the map from everyone else and not punishing anyone, which is a pain to the rest of the team, but we gotta learn.
My biggest point of contention is the Railgun. If we needed big tank-killing, I'd love to take the railgun since it matches what I'm doing best. As an antitank weapon, it isn't explosive, so it'd better be the heaviest point damage in the game. And it isn't; every other anti-tank weapon simply outperforms it at almost all levels. If I were Arrowhead, I'd buff the damage sky high with heavy armor penetration, decrease the ammo count and decrease the charge speed.
Played with eruptor for a few hours against bugs last night and it is very solid.
Having a primary close bugholes on heavy nests from the caldera is really an understated usefulness.
The only issue you're going to run into is hunter swarming, which the peacemaker feels closer to redeemer now, at least in terms of total hunters killed over the life of the ammo.
For railgun, I think we just need more tiny weakpoints. Like the gunship should have a spot that it'd be impossible to lead 4 shots on with an amr, but the rg can pop in 1. There should be a heavy armor chain on the tank threads for the rg to pop. Etc etc.
The +5sec to the Quasar Cannon feels like an absolute eternity. If it's going to take *that* long to charge I feel like it should hit like a truck. It needs either a pretty significant damage buff or a shorter cooldown.
As an Eruptor main, this nerf was fair given how many objectives it could take care of alone.
Quasar needed the nerf. It's a launcher that doesn't require a backpack and has a lot of shots- meaning you can bring any of the following without worrying about Hulks and Chargers:
Either Shield
Either Drone Backpack
Supply Pack (though that's usually run with grenade launchers or flamethrowers)
Jump Pack (good for a recon build)
but it STILL fits it's role pretty well, that role being for taking out the occasional heavy enemy while focusing more on the non-heavies in the downtime.
I get it that the railgun isn’t supposed crazy OP like in transformers and it has its purpose, but there’s just no reason to use it. It’s supposed to do massive damage, conceptually it’s meant to fire projectiles at Mach 7, which will completely and utterly obliterate any target it hits. I don’t get why they don’t make it single use, give it 5-7 shots, raise the cooldown significantly, and up the damage by 300-400% to make it viable, but very limited in use. That way, players would have that tough trade off between extremely high damage from a railgun and consistent high damage from AT rockets that have more ammo and more versatility.
Matter of fact is... The Jag didn't need a NERF. It barely changed it, but it really just didn't need it...
I'm just glad they didn't touch the scorcher I just got it after grinding for a month.
I really think everyone is over reacting to the Qusar cannon nerf. The quasar cannon is OP since you can get a back pack. With what it was, there was very little reason to take anything else like the recoiless. The recoiless is by far the best in my opinion if someone holds the backpack but almost no one does that with randoms. If not, then you need to stand still to reload, the quasar cannon you don’t need to. You can run while it re charges, with the recoiless, you need to either carry stun gernades or run and find a spot to then reload. Same with the spear, which at some points will take a lot of time. You have nothing protecting you unless you got good teamates, and often times you get your reload interrupted. Just from that alone, you can argue the Quasar cannon is still better. It is the safer option out of all of them and still has its place. Its just not the one size fits all thing now.