I like the groove you've got with these recent videos. Real-time, but it still feels well-presented and planned. I appreciate seeing what it's like to spend time dialing in the brews, too.
Glad you like them 👌 bit of a change up - it's not live, but unscripted and I never really know what will happen - which i love! making great coffee doesn't happen easily that's for sure 😂
These dialling videos are great. I learn a lot seeing how you dial in and try to diagnose the problems. Its also interesting to see the challenges of the machine
🤦🏻 good grief! I have been using a 1Zpresso grinder with my La Pavoni for 2 months. It never even crossed my mind that it would fit directly into the Portafilter! 🤣🤣 every day is a school day! Great video.
But you did know it fits the brew chamber of your Aeropress and your 3 cup moka basket, right? Because I sorted that quick. Trying to put it back together while watching videos on how to put it back together? I am good with computers... 😂🤣😂 But even I can maintain one.
I once made 8 flat whites in a row out of my Pavoni. It took "us" about 35mins to do it and I say "us" because while one person is pulling a shot another person can actually steam milk though it's a bit of an acrobatic exercise! While prepping the next shot we put a cold cloth on the grouphead to keep the temperature under control. We just had a enough water in the machine to complete the exercise! Normally though I go for larger volume shots with around 15-16g of coffee producing around 30-34g depending on the coffee bean type. For this I pull a "Fellini move" as you've experimented with and pull the lever down until it's starts to drip (or longer - again depending on type and amount of coffee), then bring the lever slowly back up - trying not to disturb the puck - to top up the grouphead before finishing off the shot. It's the semi-randomness of the process that makes it all the more enjoyable 😃
So valuable to see you work through these issues unedited - I'll never buy this machine, but the way you explain the problems you run into and how to address them is applicable to any machine
I have had the Europicola for a few months and wonder why I took this long to get it. 😄 one thing I learned is dry pumping for the first shot is really necessary.
I don't know if shot timing is really that important, the 30 sec shot rule is useful for getting your grinder setting in the right range, I found brew ratio makes more of an impact, if you're doing a lighter roast, and you know your machine isn't running very hot you can get away with a longer shot or longer pre infusion, which I find works nicely on my post millennium Europiccola machine. Your shots mostly looked beautiful, I get donut extractions often on mine, but it fills in the center pretty quick as soon as you start pulling the lever, still tastes good! I never do Fellini / double pulls, I see it as an excellent ristretto machine :D I've only tried doing the Felini a few times but it didn't seem to give me as good results (I suspect it pulls up air from the bottom of the basket and disrupts the puck).
Great video and really has me excited for purchasing this machine from you soon - since my old Ascaso has finally bitten the dust after 12 solid years.
What would you recommend doing as it's a 51mm basket which is smaller than my grinder's catch cup? My grinder, which I got from you, is the Fellow Opus which caters to 54-58mm sized baskets.
you may be able to find a step down piece - something random at bunnings ? or.. made for La Pavoni - the Ventrui 👉 alternativebrewing.com.au/products/venturi-dosing-funnel
Nice Video! I ended up getting the Flair 58 instead of La Pavoni. I use my phone as a shot mirror, I put it on the camera or video and lean it against my heavy tamper to get the right angle.
I just realized that the boiler pressure is around 0.5 bar Did you adjust it, or before giving you the machine, did they lowered it for a reason? The standard setting for Millennium models is the 1.0, mine too, and i am thinking to lower it too I drink medium, medium/light roasts, acidic
It came out of the box like this. So Im guessing between importer and stocking. Certainly 0.5-0.8bars is a great spot for lever machines boilers to be at 👌
@@AlternativeBrewing After some testing,i realized that the Millennium models don't have the overheating problem of the pre Millennium models, up to 1.0 works fine, and it helps in 2 things too 1) Much better steaming 2) Preinfusion at 1.0 bar just by keeping the lever at up position
@@AlternativeBrewing Guess what, i bought a Millennium 2018 pro and i am loving it I installed a group head thermometer and i can easily manage the temperature Right now i am trying to find the best average grind, pressure combination Boiler pressure 1.0, group temperature 95°C measured at the side just after the tube from the boiler
I think getting the version with pressure gauge at the group/piston would be a good idea. Maybe your first under-extracted shots were connected with pressure at the puck?
Enjoyed your review as always. Can you reuse the water in your boiler the next day if the water is still 3/4 full ? In my case I only make one cup espresso a day. Is this an issue with water quality deterioration when you re-boil the water.
There is yes - that's a great question. There is water deterioration - and this is not a well known aspect of heat/cooling and re-heating water. So - being able to empty the boiler each and every time is a huge plus with a La Pavoni vs a regular Espresso machine - However I'm not sure most would be up for that level of detail. If it's only once that you reheat the water - that'd be okay - many times - not so much - it does come a time where you do want to empty the full bouler and start with fresh quality brew water 100%
@@AlternativeBrewing thanks for the reply. Appreciate it. Have you by chance compared the espresso shot made by the LA pavoni and flair 58? Are they the same? Is one an upgrade over the other? Thanks
I have a La Pavoni Professional Post-Millennium. I usually use light roast (Passport Specialty Coffee), and I try and get my GH to 95°C, and then only allow 3-4 seconds of water, as I am trying to get a 2:1 ratio (with 14g of coffee), as I like a small cortado in the morning. With Passport Specialty Coffee, they recommend no pre-infusion for their coffee (which is impossible w/a lever machine) and a quicker pour (approx. 21-25 seconds). I am finding the quicker pour (w/a puck screen) is doing wonders to bring out the crema, weirdly. The hard part w/a La Pavoni is that everyday it can change, depending on the age of the beans, and the climate around you. I have my La Pavoni on my back deck, so it affects it more, but even inside, if it was raining, I would have to switch it up.
I'm curious why you are trying to get the temp down on the group head. With proper extraction, wouldn't keeping the temp between 90 and 96C be optimal? Firstly, adding a temperature strip to the group head is what most recommend. With mine, I try and get the head to around 95C on the strip before I put the portafilter on and brew. I have seen a few articles and videos with folks showing what happens if it's not hot enough on extraction. I even have tested myself and preheating the head to proper temp has produced the best flavours. Without this, you tend to see the brew some out at 70 or 80C which is too low. One technique to preheating is to pull the lever up and down to where the top of the pull is just below where water comes out. Doing this a few times gets the group head to 90 or 95 before adding the portafilter. It's also important when doing multiple brews to keep it under 100C. I find rinsing the head out and cleaning with a brush helps bring it back to desired temps. This is just good to do on these machines between shots anyways. The pressure also on the wand is good enough to do a proper steam for a cappuccino, but you want to make sure the valve is fairly open to do so.
You are correct, and thanks for the tips! 👌 Those first few shots on a La Pavoni, the water is cooler than you want. The range you speak of - around 95c is a fleeting one or two shots - before it really than becomes too hot to brew coffee effectively. I wouldn't subscribe to having to cool the GH down every time you use the La Pavoni - and yes pretty much every review or how to on these machines, states - or even over-states 😂 temperature management. I was more curious what effect it may have, if one, and how significant it might be.
After about 3-4 shots in a row I find the machine temperature starts to get out of control without using some sort of external approach to cooling. Having said that I also use the preheat technique you suggest by raising the lever a few times till it is just at the point of water coming through. It's a great way to heat the group head without wasting too much water. Stream wise, using an aftermarket single hole replacement tip a Pavoni produces some of the best micro-foamed milk you can get and the amount of steam available is only limited by the amount of water in the boiler - it just keeps on steaming! Takes me about 35secs or so to steam a small flat white and the milk is silky smooth. Perfect for latte art if only I was any good at it (I swear that random modern art looking mess is a swan... 😳)
Great video Josh, I have been looking all over the internet for a video like this. I have just ordered a bottomless filter that holds a deeper basket. Interested to see how a lager volume of coffee goes
Nice! Let me know how it goes Certainly if you're looking top maintain a similar ratio - you'll need to lift the handle a second time. I'd like to play around with this a little more - If done in the right way - I don't think it has too much of a negative effect on the extraction (which at the most part has already 80-90% taken place) - so long as it's a steady up and down of the lever - you can easily brew 40-50-60mls out 👌
It's nice to see a machine ship with a bottomless and a double portafilter. I'm always flabergasted by machines that ship with a double and a single portafiler
You are disappointed the eagle isn't attached to one of the few areas that doesn't become scolding hot and which you are likely to grab while making your espresso? That's really weird.
@@AlternativeBrewing most people are watching from their smartphone or laptop, maybe tablet and pc, so rendering your videos to just 1080p while you record in 4k will make they can have best resolution thats fit with their display resolution without losing extra battery drain, and also your vidoes will still nice because you record in 4k.. i hope u understand, im sorry for my bad English, because it's not my mother tongue
La Pavoni has cut costs on their lever machines. The materials used are inferior to the older models leading to rust in the base. This sad really as they are a good looking machine that can produce a really high quality coffee.
Really? that has not been my experience, a friend of mine has had one for the last 3 yrs and I sometimes go visit and we pull a shot, seems fine, no rust. On the other hand some people are able to get rust on simple kettles... It depends on user attention I guess... Still, I'm sure is not easy to source good metals. I work with companies that need "small amounts" of steel and steel producers, totally oversell their metals.
With a Flair58 you do not have to worry about lifting the lever sucking up air. It also provides more water on the first pull, and temperature control is easier. You are not wasting electricity heating up a boiler of water, and it is easier to clean as it has no screen built in. The head is insulated so you are not at risk of burning yourself on it. The air issue mentioned in this video is not there either. Now, why would I want to buy this antique?
@@jordancullenphoto I am not sold on the whole steaming milk thing. I can efficiently heat milk up to a precise temperate and whip/aerate it without the risk of scalding or diluting with water. Then I can add as much water as I want precisely to the coffee to get the exact pH I like for taste. Interestingly, this issue is brought up in an aside comment in a recent video by Decent.
Some people like the challenge. There is nothing better than getting a great coffee from the La Pavoni. Firstly, you have synergy with the machine. Secondly, there is an art to a La Pavoni that other machines do not have. Yes, that means the Flair58. Thirdly, you will find a steam wand is far better than mixing water with milk. If you think mixing water with milk is good, you definitely live in a country with terrible milk. Here in the Southern Hemisphere, we pride ourselves on our milk. Try Maleny Non-Homogenised Jersey Milk, and then tell me you want to add water to it.
@@bellingdog I must have expressed myself poorly. Even the Decent adds water to the milk when steaming which I find limits how much water can go into the espresso extraction. Like the Decent the Flair can mimic the pressure profile of the La Pavoni, except that (unlike the Decent or a spring lever) you can micro-adjust using real-time feedback.
The machine looks amazing and great presentation. But for me, too many little subtleties in making sure everything is ok which yes I know it’s all part of the fun, and the coffee looks amazing but I’ll stick with my Micra 😁
Mad respect by really showing the not too good shots along with the good ones
I like the groove you've got with these recent videos. Real-time, but it still feels well-presented and planned. I appreciate seeing what it's like to spend time dialing in the brews, too.
Glad you like them 👌 bit of a change up - it's not live, but unscripted and I never really know what will happen - which i love! making great coffee doesn't happen easily that's for sure 😂
These dialling videos are great. I learn a lot seeing how you dial in and try to diagnose the problems. Its also interesting to see the challenges of the machine
Glad you like them!
How strange. This is exactly the type of video I just started looking for… and it just got uploaded. Thanks!
You're so welcome! If there's anything I can help with, let me know
🤦🏻 good grief! I have been using a 1Zpresso grinder with my La Pavoni for 2 months. It never even crossed my mind that it would fit directly into the Portafilter! 🤣🤣 every day is a school day! Great video.
Right on! Yeah hahaha the 1Zpresso JX-Pro dose cup worked a treat 👌
But you did know it fits the brew chamber of your Aeropress and your 3 cup moka basket, right?
Because I sorted that quick. Trying to put it back together while watching videos on how to put it back together?
I am good with computers... 😂🤣😂
But even I can maintain one.
I once made 8 flat whites in a row out of my Pavoni. It took "us" about 35mins to do it and I say "us" because while one person is pulling a shot another person can actually steam milk though it's a bit of an acrobatic exercise! While prepping the next shot we put a cold cloth on the grouphead to keep the temperature under control. We just had a enough water in the machine to complete the exercise!
Normally though I go for larger volume shots with around 15-16g of coffee producing around 30-34g depending on the coffee bean type. For this I pull a "Fellini move" as you've experimented with and pull the lever down until it's starts to drip (or longer - again depending on type and amount of coffee), then bring the lever slowly back up - trying not to disturb the puck - to top up the grouphead before finishing off the shot.
It's the semi-randomness of the process that makes it all the more enjoyable 😃
100% 👌
I loved the La Pavoni sneeze!
hahahaha 😂 I hadn't heard that one nice!
So valuable to see you work through these issues unedited - I'll never buy this machine, but the way you explain the problems you run into and how to address them is applicable to any machine
thanks so much 👌
I have had the Europicola for a few months and wonder why I took this long to get it. 😄
one thing I learned is dry pumping for the first shot is really necessary.
I don't know if shot timing is really that important, the 30 sec shot rule is useful for getting your grinder setting in the right range, I found brew ratio makes more of an impact, if you're doing a lighter roast, and you know your machine isn't running very hot you can get away with a longer shot or longer pre infusion, which I find works nicely on my post millennium Europiccola machine.
Your shots mostly looked beautiful, I get donut extractions often on mine, but it fills in the center pretty quick as soon as you start pulling the lever, still tastes good!
I never do Fellini / double pulls, I see it as an excellent ristretto machine :D I've only tried doing the Felini a few times but it didn't seem to give me as good results (I suspect it pulls up air from the bottom of the basket and disrupts the puck).
As I always say, If it tastes good, don't change a thing!
Great video and really has me excited for purchasing this machine from you soon - since my old Ascaso has finally bitten the dust after 12 solid years.
Hope you enjoy it!
Once you master this machine, it is such a pleasure to use this LP. Use ramekin mug with water to cool down the group is much better.
My Europiccolo has been around since 1990. I bought second hand for $50. Best buy ever.
What would you recommend doing as it's a 51mm basket which is smaller than my grinder's catch cup? My grinder, which I got from you, is the Fellow Opus which caters to 54-58mm sized baskets.
you may be able to find a step down piece - something random at bunnings ? or.. made for La Pavoni - the Ventrui 👉 alternativebrewing.com.au/products/venturi-dosing-funnel
Nice Video! I ended up getting the Flair 58 instead of La Pavoni. I use my phone as a shot mirror, I put it on the camera or video and lean it against my heavy tamper to get the right angle.
🤯 that is brilliant!
I love your videos they are enthusiastic and get me excited about coffee
Happy to hear that! thanks so much Sandra!
I just realized that the boiler pressure is around 0.5 bar
Did you adjust it, or before giving you the machine, did they lowered it for a reason?
The standard setting for Millennium models is the 1.0, mine too, and i am thinking to lower it too
I drink medium, medium/light roasts, acidic
It came out of the box like this. So Im guessing between importer and stocking. Certainly 0.5-0.8bars is a great spot for lever machines boilers to be at 👌
@@AlternativeBrewing After some testing,i realized that the Millennium models don't have the overheating problem of the pre Millennium models, up to 1.0 works fine, and it helps in 2 things too
1) Much better steaming
2) Preinfusion at 1.0 bar just by keeping the lever at up position
Thanks for a great review! Any chance you can put up a comparison review between this machine and elektra casa a leva?
Great idea!
What a nice surprise
This was always the machine that I always wanted and never got it
I will buy it one day
Looking forward to see the video
You and me both! 😂 thanks
@@AlternativeBrewing Guess what, i bought a Millennium 2018 pro and i am loving it
I installed a group head thermometer and i can easily manage the temperature
Right now i am trying to find the best average grind, pressure combination
Boiler pressure 1.0, group temperature 95°C measured at the side just after the tube from the boiler
I think getting the version with pressure gauge at the group/piston would be a good idea. Maybe your first under-extracted shots were connected with pressure at the puck?
You could be right there 👌
Enjoyed your review as always. Can you reuse the water in your boiler the next day if the water is still 3/4 full ? In my case I only make one cup espresso a day. Is this an issue with water quality deterioration when you re-boil the water.
There is yes - that's a great question. There is water deterioration - and this is not a well known aspect of heat/cooling and re-heating water. So - being able to empty the boiler each and every time is a huge plus with a La Pavoni vs a regular Espresso machine - However I'm not sure most would be up for that level of detail. If it's only once that you reheat the water - that'd be okay - many times - not so much - it does come a time where you do want to empty the full bouler and start with fresh quality brew water 100%
@@AlternativeBrewing thanks for the reply. Appreciate it.
Have you by chance compared the espresso shot made by the LA pavoni and flair 58? Are they the same? Is one an upgrade over the other? Thanks
I had a browse on the website, which dosing cup fits the La Pavoni nicely?
Hi there unfortunately there are no 51mm Dosing Cups available atm sorry ! IT is 51mm you should be looking for 👍
I have a La Pavoni Professional Post-Millennium. I usually use light roast (Passport Specialty Coffee), and I try and get my GH to 95°C, and then only allow 3-4 seconds of water, as I am trying to get a 2:1 ratio (with 14g of coffee), as I like a small cortado in the morning.
With Passport Specialty Coffee, they recommend no pre-infusion for their coffee (which is impossible w/a lever machine) and a quicker pour (approx. 21-25 seconds). I am finding the quicker pour (w/a puck screen) is doing wonders to bring out the crema, weirdly.
The hard part w/a La Pavoni is that everyday it can change, depending on the age of the beans, and the climate around you. I have my La Pavoni on my back deck, so it affects it more, but even inside, if it was raining, I would have to switch it up.
I'm curious why you are trying to get the temp down on the group head. With proper extraction, wouldn't keeping the temp between 90 and 96C be optimal? Firstly, adding a temperature strip to the group head is what most recommend. With mine, I try and get the head to around 95C on the strip before I put the portafilter on and brew. I have seen a few articles and videos with folks showing what happens if it's not hot enough on extraction. I even have tested myself and preheating the head to proper temp has produced the best flavours. Without this, you tend to see the brew some out at 70 or 80C which is too low. One technique to preheating is to pull the lever up and down to where the top of the pull is just below where water comes out. Doing this a few times gets the group head to 90 or 95 before adding the portafilter. It's also important when doing multiple brews to keep it under 100C. I find rinsing the head out and cleaning with a brush helps bring it back to desired temps. This is just good to do on these machines between shots anyways. The pressure also on the wand is good enough to do a proper steam for a cappuccino, but you want to make sure the valve is fairly open to do so.
You are correct, and thanks for the tips! 👌
Those first few shots on a La Pavoni, the water is cooler than you want. The range you speak of - around 95c is a fleeting one or two shots - before it really than becomes too hot to brew coffee effectively. I wouldn't subscribe to having to cool the GH down every time you use the La Pavoni - and yes pretty much every review or how to on these machines, states - or even over-states 😂 temperature management. I was more curious what effect it may have, if one, and how significant it might be.
After about 3-4 shots in a row I find the machine temperature starts to get out of control without using some sort of external approach to cooling. Having said that I also use the preheat technique you suggest by raising the lever a few times till it is just at the point of water coming through. It's a great way to heat the group head without wasting too much water.
Stream wise, using an aftermarket single hole replacement tip a Pavoni produces some of the best micro-foamed milk you can get and the amount of steam available is only limited by the amount of water in the boiler - it just keeps on steaming! Takes me about 35secs or so to steam a small flat white and the milk is silky smooth. Perfect for latte art if only I was any good at it (I swear that random modern art looking mess is a swan... 😳)
On your Baratza what was the sweetspot for the grind size to get the best pull and tasting in the shot
I believe it was 2 & K ! 🤔
Great video Josh, I have been looking all over the internet for a video like this. I have just ordered a bottomless filter that holds a deeper basket. Interested to see how a lager volume of coffee goes
Nice! Let me know how it goes
Certainly if you're looking top maintain a similar ratio - you'll need to lift the handle a second time. I'd like to play around with this a little more - If done in the right way - I don't think it has too much of a negative effect on the extraction (which at the most part has already 80-90% taken place) - so long as it's a steady up and down of the lever - you can easily brew 40-50-60mls out 👌
@@AlternativeBrewing yeah I was wondering how you mentioned when the lever is lifted that air has to go in how that effects a wet puck
If there is air in the boiler, wouldn't that support a false 'low' pressure reading in the boiler given that air is a compressible gas?
correct. You want to bleed this pressure off.
Whats the coffee brand
That tamper though, after 100 years…… hahha
It's nice to see a machine ship with a bottomless and a double portafilter. I'm always flabergasted by machines that ship with a double and a single portafiler
You are disappointed the eagle isn't attached to one of the few areas that doesn't become scolding hot and which you are likely to grab while making your espresso?
That's really weird.
😂 yeah that's a good call - just thought the Eagle would be a permanent fixture - I don't trust myself not to just remove it altogether day to day 😂
i think its better to upload just to 1080, even though u record in 4k
How come? Very interested to hear why
@@AlternativeBrewing most people are watching from their smartphone or laptop, maybe tablet and pc, so rendering your videos to just 1080p while you record in 4k will make they can have best resolution thats fit with their display resolution without losing extra battery drain, and also your vidoes will still nice because you record in 4k.. i hope u understand, im sorry for my bad English, because it's not my mother tongue
La Pavoni has cut costs on their lever machines. The materials used are inferior to the older models leading to rust in the base. This sad really as they are a good looking machine that can produce a really high quality coffee.
Really? that has not been my experience, a friend of mine has had one for the last 3 yrs and I sometimes go visit and we pull a shot, seems fine, no rust. On the other hand some people are able to get rust on simple kettles... It depends on user attention I guess... Still, I'm sure is not easy to source good metals.
I work with companies that need "small amounts" of steel and steel producers, totally oversell their metals.
With a Flair58 you do not have to worry about lifting the lever sucking up air. It also provides more water on the first pull, and temperature control is easier. You are not wasting electricity heating up a boiler of water, and it is easier to clean as it has no screen built in. The head is insulated so you are not at risk of burning yourself on it. The air issue mentioned in this video is not there either. Now, why would I want to buy this antique?
Milk wand if you're keen for it.
@@jordancullenphoto I am not sold on the whole steaming milk thing. I can efficiently heat milk up to a precise temperate and whip/aerate it without the risk of scalding or diluting with water. Then I can add as much water as I want precisely to the coffee to get the exact pH I like for taste. Interestingly, this issue is brought up in an aside comment in a recent video by Decent.
Some people like the challenge. There is nothing better than getting a great coffee from the La Pavoni. Firstly, you have synergy with the machine. Secondly, there is an art to a La Pavoni that other machines do not have. Yes, that means the Flair58. Thirdly, you will find a steam wand is far better than mixing water with milk. If you think mixing water with milk is good, you definitely live in a country with terrible milk. Here in the Southern Hemisphere, we pride ourselves on our milk. Try Maleny Non-Homogenised Jersey Milk, and then tell me you want to add water to it.
@@bellingdog I must have expressed myself poorly. Even the Decent adds water to the milk when steaming which I find limits how much water can go into the espresso extraction. Like the Decent the Flair can mimic the pressure profile of the La Pavoni, except that (unlike the Decent or a spring lever) you can micro-adjust using real-time feedback.
Perpendicular??? You sure??
Parallel 🫣 😂 thanks!
The machine looks amazing and great presentation. But for me, too many little subtleties in making sure everything is ok which yes I know it’s all part of the fun, and the coffee looks amazing but I’ll stick with my Micra 😁
6 seconds is a watery coffee
Much more than 6 seconds