Robin Another way is to pickup some 3/8 to 1/4 thread adapters, and use 1/4in machine screws/all-thread. Quick and easy and requires no machining to be able to fasten those import 1-2-3 blocks together. John
I challenge you to make a set of 1-2-3 blocks that will accept one tapped hole to any other tapped hole without lead difference issues.* It is factually impossible. In the best, ideal, case you pre-load the two internally threaded parts of the joint, match drill and tap them, keep the same clamp load between those two pieces, then install the externally threaded (bolt) component. There are still statically indeterminate conditions. That is not the intended use of 1-2-3 blocks that anyone ever told me. A 1-2-3 block primarily is supposed to be within 0.0002" of flatness (not by a specification that I could find, but general consensus) between the faces. I am very interested to learn if there is any standard of face flatness vs the tapped holes that are often found in 1-2-3 blocks, because I don't know of any. But ensuring the repeatability of screw thread connections between blocks would require match-drilling / match-tapping while the blocks were clamped at a specified preload (assuming a standard externally threaded fastener material). * It would be a surprise for one tapped hole (or nut) to have a thread profile that exactly matches another tapped hole profile while under the desired preload.
Very good Is easy to make and easy to use. I've found out that the holes in the blocks are close to the root diameter of the thread used and the probably reason for the size difference is growth in heat treatment.
I'm a retired tool & die maker, and have never had the need to bolt my blocks together, however, your idea, using allen bolts looks like it works great.
Thanks to you Chuck, you led me to other great creators that helped me learn the correct way and ease of joining the 1-2-3 blocks. I was given a pair of Brown & Sharp blocks, and your tio was awesome.Bear
The Renzeti blocks are definitely cool, but hardly a diy project for most of us. I like your solution. Irrespective of talent and skill limitations, you need $1000's if not $10,000's of equipment to make a proper set of his blocks to 0.0002" tolerance. Your (Carls) solution works with a drill press and a tap and a $30 set of import blocks.
I have just unpacked my 123 blocks and also discovered the problem you highlighted. Thanks very much for the tip, I'll be having a go at the pins this week end. Still if someone was up to making some Renzetti blocks, I'd be interested in funding the cause..
this is a cool way to get around the problem.. but the problem is with the Chinese blocks.. the unthreaded holes are supposed to be clearance holes, i think the fix could also be to drill out the undersized unthreaded holes on the block.
Or, you can drill out the plain holes in one of the blocks with a 3/8"/10mm solid carbide end mill. They are hard but carbide is harder and you only have to do one, unless you want to join more than two together. But, on thinking about it your way is less dramatic.
I think I would put a screwdriver slot on end of the threaded pin in line with the holes. This would help with visual and/or a way to align with the machine screw.
Another option is an angle plate. :-) Good measuring tools are not cheap, for certain, and the better ones like the Moore Tools and Mitsutoyo do allow bolting together (11 hole, not 23 hole). I have often wonder though, how often I would need to use bolted together 1-2-3 blocks if I can use an angle plate, which I have several of? Always good to have alternatives.
How about using a thread bushing to go from the 3/8-16 to 1/4-20? Then you could use 1/4 screws that should pass through the block holes. They are commonly used for camera threads but could be easily made in the shop as well.
Chuck You know they make 3/8 to 1/4 thread adapters (common in the photo world) that would let you do the same thing. Also, the non-threaded holes on the import 1-2-3 blocks typically is 9mm, so grab some 9mm dowel pins and use those for alinement when ganging up 1-2-3 blocks John
Nicely done Carl......I mean Chuck. Make the rods 7/8 long with a single tapped hole and they will work in any orientation. Slotted screws? Really? Did you borrow them off your Weber barbecue for the video? Best, Tom
I like your design! I purchased Taylor Tool 123 Block Hwd Kit. SAVE YOUR MONEY! It such a royal pain to assemble. I so wanted it to work, but NO BUENO!
Seems to me that you could chuck your bolt into a drill and with a file one could remove enough thread from the allen bolt from the head down to a point that would enable the head to spin and not bind in the top block. Not sure if they may already sell allen bolts with a smooth shank so as not to bind ?
@@TheAyrCaveShop Just recently. Taking hint from this post. I was able to use the threaded hole to clamp an odd shaped part to a 123 block. Then attach the assembly to magnet chuck. It was a great observation on the part of the uploader.
I use these photo tripod thread converters from Amazon. 3/8" outside thread 1/4" inside thread www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OKZVXFC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Chris
No, I can't because the blocks are hardened. I just use a long 1/4'-20 bolt. The other thing I thought Id mention is that the holes don't always line up. If you place a three hole side against another three hole side everything lines up fine, but if you try to line up a three hole side with the holes on a 5 hole row the spacing is different. For those I use a long 1/4" bolt with a nut in the other side. Chris
WoW! That because your 1-2-3 block are the garbage model... sorrey! In real blocks, the holes that are not threaded are of the outer diameter of the bolt so it slides through. Watch this clip and the sun will light up. 😁 ruclips.net/video/e2BpFdXlXNI/видео.htmlsi=DUedtkB6zE3RvK62
That is great - so many people are frustrated by being unable to connect them at right angles. Thanks for sharing
That is a most excellent tip Carl/Chuck! A very easy and inexpensive way to make the cheap Asian blocks almost as versatile as mine.
ATB, Robin
Robin
Another way is to pickup some 3/8 to 1/4 thread adapters, and use 1/4in machine screws/all-thread. Quick and easy and requires no machining to be able to fasten those import 1-2-3 blocks together.
John
I challenge you to make a set of 1-2-3 blocks that will accept one tapped hole to any other tapped hole without lead difference issues.*
It is factually impossible. In the best, ideal, case you pre-load the two internally threaded parts of the joint, match drill and tap them, keep the same clamp load between those two pieces, then install the externally threaded (bolt) component. There are still statically indeterminate conditions.
That is not the intended use of 1-2-3 blocks that anyone ever told me. A 1-2-3 block primarily is supposed to be within 0.0002" of flatness (not by a specification that I could find, but general consensus) between the faces.
I am very interested to learn if there is any standard of face flatness vs the tapped holes that are often found in 1-2-3 blocks, because I don't know of any.
But ensuring the repeatability of screw thread connections between blocks would require match-drilling / match-tapping while the blocks were clamped at a specified preload (assuming a standard externally threaded fastener material).
* It would be a surprise for one tapped hole (or nut) to have a thread profile that exactly matches another tapped hole profile while under the desired preload.
Hats off to who came up with that idea. Thanks for sharing it.
I have a difficult time getting out of my recliner, watching too many great videos. Thanks for another one
Thumbs up to you and Karl. Great idea. Thank you for sharing.
very clever trick chuck. its one of those "why didn't i ever think of that" moments. thanks for sharing
Very good Is easy to make and easy to use. I've found out that the holes in the blocks are close to the root diameter of the thread used and the probably reason for the size difference is growth in heat treatment.
Quick, easy and simple!!! My kind of solution! Thank you for sharing
I'm a retired tool & die maker, and have never had the need to bolt my blocks together, however, your idea, using allen bolts looks like it works great.
I like both easy and cheap. Great tip there Chuck.
Very cool, Chuck. Be sure to thank Carl for me!
-- Cheers, Gary
Thanks to you Chuck, you led me to other great creators that helped me learn the correct way and ease of joining the 1-2-3 blocks. I was given a pair of Brown & Sharp blocks, and your tio was awesome.Bear
Nice idea. I might cut a screwdriver slot in the end of my "nut" pin for alignment during assembly.
George...I like the slot idea.....thanks for viewing...
Thanks Chuck, good tip. Better than what I usually see: double-stick tape holding blocks together :-)
Very cool idea - thanks for sharing.
Great tip Chuck. Seems so easy once shown!
Great tip! Always enjoy your videos.
Always better to make your own to fit your own job and needs .
Great tip. One more concept I can add to my meager collection.
The Renzeti blocks are definitely cool, but hardly a diy project for most of us. I like your solution. Irrespective of talent and skill limitations, you need $1000's if not $10,000's of equipment to make a proper set of his blocks to 0.0002" tolerance. Your (Carls) solution works with a drill press and a tap and a $30 set of import blocks.
I have just unpacked my 123 blocks and also discovered the problem you highlighted. Thanks very much for the tip, I'll be having a go at the pins this week end. Still if someone was up to making some Renzetti blocks, I'd be interested in funding the cause..
Nice solution, faster than making a new fancy set of blocks... ;)
Another very useful tip. Thank you.
thank for viewing and your comments
Great little idea Chuck, I might have a play with that myself.
Excellent idea and tip! I will be doing this. I even like the real world human aspect of this video. "I wasn't ready for that" and "G dammit"
Great tip Chuck! Thanks!
this is a cool way to get around the problem.. but the problem is with the Chinese blocks.. the unthreaded holes are supposed to be clearance holes, i think the fix could also be to drill out the undersized unthreaded holes on the block.
Great tip Chuck, Thanks
Or, you can drill out the plain holes in one of the blocks with a 3/8"/10mm solid carbide end mill. They are hard but carbide is harder and you only have to do one, unless you want to join more than two together. But, on thinking about it your way is less dramatic.
Purty cool! Who says you can't teach an Old Fart new tricks? errr... I mean Old Dog. . . .
I think I would put a screwdriver slot on end of the threaded pin in line with the holes. This would help with visual and/or a way to align with the machine screw.
great comment and idea....thanks for watching and the feedback, I was thinking to add a taper on the front of the screw, but your idea is simple smart
I'm making a set right now and adding the screw slot. Great idea Thanks...
Cool stuff! Thanks for the tip. :)
thanks for viewing and your comment...
Another option is an angle plate. :-) Good measuring tools are not cheap, for certain, and the better ones like the Moore Tools and Mitsutoyo do allow bolting together (11 hole, not 23 hole). I have often wonder though, how often I would need to use bolted together 1-2-3 blocks if I can use an angle plate, which I have several of? Always good to have alternatives.
How about using a thread bushing to go from the 3/8-16 to 1/4-20? Then you could use 1/4 screws that should pass through the block holes. They are commonly used for camera threads but could be easily made in the shop as well.
bendavanza there is no simple solution that can’t be turned into more complicated one...
Good tip! Now all I need is a set of 1-2-3 blocks! lol
My set of 11-hole blocks. has bigger blank holes, the the threaded. i paid a little more. But it makes things some simpler
Love it, now I have another project to do.
GREAT TIP!! THANK YOU MY FRIEND!!
Love it . Thanks Chuck. Harold is right about you.
Cool trick Chuck, thanks
Thanks! Another great idea!
Excellent. Pragmatic. Achievable. Thx.
Glad you liked it
Chuck
You know they make 3/8 to 1/4 thread adapters (common in the photo world) that would let you do the same thing.
Also, the non-threaded holes on the import 1-2-3 blocks typically is 9mm, so grab some 9mm dowel pins and use those for alinement when ganging up 1-2-3 blocks
John
Hello John,...thanks for viewing and your comment/input with some good info...
Nice tip chuck!
Steve
Thanks, simple and I needed this.
Glad it helped! thanks for viewing
Nicely done Carl......I mean Chuck. Make the rods 7/8 long with a single tapped hole and they will work in any orientation. Slotted screws? Really? Did you borrow them off your Weber barbecue for the video? Best, Tom
pretty sure he raided some electric boxes, not that purty bbq....
Friends can be brutal...Lol Great tip I'm making a set
I like your design! I purchased Taylor Tool 123 Block Hwd Kit. SAVE YOUR MONEY! It such a royal pain to assemble. I so wanted it to work, but NO BUENO!
thanks for viewing and your supportive comment, not familiar with the TT123 kit, I will look at it...
good stuff chuck!
thanks chuck cool idea. jim
Just made a set thanks Chuck!!
good news Dave....atb
thank you for this will be using it soon.
nice ,, thanks for the tip ..
If those holes are useless for connecting blocks then what they are for? Does anyone know?
Good tip...thanks.
Awesome buddy!
Hi Chui....
nice tip.
Seems to me that you could chuck your bolt into a drill and with a file one could remove enough thread from the allen bolt from the head down to a point that would enable the head to spin and not bind in the top block. Not sure if they may already sell allen bolts with a smooth shank so as not to bind ?
thanks for viewing and commenting
Are the pins pre-drilled and pre-threaded or did you do that yourself? I don't have the tooling to thread them. Thanks and cool idea.
thanks for viewing, I did the drilling and threading...
Nice!
And where do these pins come from?
Do you have the links for those guys making the blocks ? Ty
check Tom Lipton (oxtool)
Great !!! Bob
thanks for viewing and your comment
Nice solution with a matched set. Generic solution.
👍👍👍
However the reason for having a 3/8-16 tapped hole remain unanswered.
Can somebody provide some info?
I've been scratching my head on that one too
@@TheAyrCaveShop Just recently. Taking hint from this post. I was able to use the threaded hole to clamp an odd shaped part to a 123 block. Then attach the assembly to magnet chuck.
It was a great observation on the part of the uploader.
Thanks Chuck .
Elegant.
Or you could just buy 11-hole blocks for the same price as the 23 hole blocks to begin with that actually are designed to bolt together.
thanks for viewing and your comments
I use these photo tripod thread converters from Amazon. 3/8" outside thread 1/4" inside thread www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OKZVXFC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Chris
I like this idea. do you drill out one set for clearance holes?
No, I can't because the blocks are hardened. I just use a long 1/4'-20 bolt. The other thing I thought Id mention is that the holes don't always line up. If you place a three hole side against another three hole side everything lines up fine, but if you try to line up a three hole side with the holes on a 5 hole row the spacing is different. For those I use a long 1/4" bolt with a nut in the other side. Chris
I am making a set tomorrow for my new surburban tools blocks
thanks for viewing and your comment...good luck with the build
Thanks Chuck
Guess you haven't seen Tom Lipton's solution to that problem. Thanks for the video.
Guess you haven't watched the end of the video where he literally talks about Tom Lipton's solution to that problem. Dumbass.
Don't sell yourself short, I'm sure you could make them also. Cool idea and vid!!
Thank Joe for viewing and your comments...
why not just bore out alternating holes on different blocks so you can simply bolt them together as needed
thanks for viewing and your comments
Thank you very much but we all don't have 123 blocks at all!!!
Thanks for viewing ....HNY
enjoyed
Ha, hate it when someone presents an easy solution and I didnt come up with it....but I'm never too old to learn!! Copying! ;-)
Yeah, what he said!
Standard operating procedure
“Double nut” 🤨
Slick!!!!
Or, you could, you know, buy high quality 1-2-3 blocks instead of cheap Chinese junk, just a wacky idea out of left field.
I need to get a life Chuck
too funny.....thanks for viewing....
WoW! That because your 1-2-3 block are the garbage model... sorrey! In real blocks, the holes that are not threaded are of the outer diameter of the bolt so it slides through. Watch this clip and the sun will light up. 😁
ruclips.net/video/e2BpFdXlXNI/видео.htmlsi=DUedtkB6zE3RvK62
Thumbs up to you and Karl. Great idea. Thank you for sharing.
I am making a set tomorrow for my new surburban tools blocks
awesome....thanks for viewing, nice blocks...