Thanks for watching!! Here's the two chucks in the video: - *No Balls Ball Bearing Chuck:* amzn.to/3YlBkpW - *Vertex Chuck:* amzn.to/4eYsJzg More links in the description. THANKS AGAIN for watching and all the comments. The MYSTERY CHUCK has been identified by a viewer, @jasonpoletta1797 as a 10062 or 3303-078. Don't have a link to a US retailer for it unfortunately. Thanks!!
You did not say and I am not versed well enough to tell from the vid. Were they designed for balls? If so, could you add them? And would it be worth it?
Sounds like a happy customer experience but it might be the repertoire that they use to anybody that brings it up. They don't loose anything. They just need to give a refund to few that opens it and keep selling neutered chucks to other customers.
I talked to the HHIP rep at IMTS and handled a bunch of chucks and other tooling. I was impressed all around. Glad to hear they are treating people well. I’m going to try some of their stuff next time I am buying.
When checking run out on a drill chuck, you want to check it with a smaller than maximum size drill. The idea here is with less of the jaws being supported by the body of the chuck, the precision of the holes that the jaws ride in will manifest itself. Besides, run out on a maximum size drill is far less important that with the teeny tiny drills we sometime use. The advantage of the ball bearing chuck over a plain bearing chuck is less friction is lost on the rotation of the collar to tighten the drill. So for an equal amount of force on the key, the drill is gripped much tighter. The second advantage is long term accuracy. Since you do not have two parts sliding over each other the amount of wear of the collar is reduced. When shopping for drill chucks, and I have a choice between a new plain bearing import chuck and a used, rusty, obviously well used Jacobs ball bearing chuck, I will pick the Jacobs and just clean it up.
I bought a jacobs chuck 2 years ago. Paid full price. I damaged it and bought the rebuild kit. The new parts didn’t fit. Called jacobs and found out that the new chucks are now made in China and the rebuild kits are only for the older (non-Chinese) chucks. All new jacobs chucks are Chinese and they are considered disposable, yet the customer pays full price.
If I understand correctly I imagine it's also a lot easier to replace a worn bearing than it is to replace one or two sections of the chuck itself as well. Assuming the time/cost is worth it, don't do shop work so no idea on the actual time and cost of a repair like that over just buying a new one.
I bought a 3/8" Sears Craftsman variable speed drill on sale for about $35 around 1977. A year or two later, I bought a Jacobs chuck for it for around $45. They both still work great!
Guys, as a Chinese person, all I can say is that most of the time you get a bad impression of a Made in China product is because the company that sells you the product jacked up the price way too much. For example the chuck shown in this video, B18 drill chuck usually cost about 10 bucks here in mainland China, and that's with shipping. Even jacobs B18 chucks, usually does not exceed 20 bucks range. Think about it, if you spend 70 bucks on a chuck and less than 10 bucks is going to the actual making of the product. There will 100% be expectation and reality drop.
I think Chinese tools have a bad reputation due to more significant quality issues from back in the 80s. In my experience, Chinese tools are really not that different than tools made anywhere else - you can get really good ones, or really bad ones. One of the things I wanted to do was evaluate the machining and precision of a made in China chuck to compare to a made in Taiwan chuck, and while the internal machining was distinctly worse on two of the chucks compared to the third, the performance / accuracy was fantastic across the board.
@@ShopHumor Well, the issue is this: the Chinese will make anything you want, to any price point you want. And they will do it well. If you want a cheap item, not too precise with fit and finish, they will do that. If you want something precision with much better fit and finish, made from specific materials, they can do that too. The question is how much do you want to pay for it. Just like with Western companies. But you better supply your own engineering. While they are getting better, they are still not really up to Western standards, and part of that goes right back to the Cultural Revolution concepts. But that is a different topic.
It's absolutely an incredibly complex issue indeed. Eventually I'd like to source an old, USA-made Jacobs Super Chuck and compare it with a brand new, China-made Jacobs Super Chuck, and then compare those two with a cheap, unbranded China-made ball-bearing chuck and see how they all compare.
Don't forget ROHM, and there are other makes too. The issue with buying anything Chinese aside from hit or miss quality is that it supports arguably the most evil government in the world the CCP and their weapon the PLA. Fight with your credit card now, not a rifle later.
Many products from China are better than American products these days. It all has to do with scale and learning curves. I'm sure there were some oldheads in the UK that still thought the same about domestic products for awhile, but there aren't too many of those around now.
I’m really pleased with HHiP, but blown away by Accu-size, (Canada CNC), most of their new stuff is their own design and they are absolute jewel. My Accusize ER collet chuck is a work of art, mirror finish and zero runout
@@ShopHumor they’re basically like the Canadian Shars, and sell a lot of stuff on Amazon . So some of their stuff is generics , but all of their new stuff is their own original designs , just like Shars. Oh, the Shars Tegra vise is awesome
I work for a company that flys large helicopter UAVs on long range geophysical survey missions, we source our base drones which we then modify from Taiwan and China and Korea. What we find is that you simply get what you pay for regardless of the country of manufacture, pay for a cheaply made and priced product that's what you get, ask for and pay for a higher quality more expensive product and that's what you get. Everyone has this attitude that China sells cheap crap, and they do if that's what you want to pay for, but they can and will and do manufacture to whatever standard you require, if you want high quality you have to pay for it.
I’m 100% sure you’re right - you absolutely get what you pay for no matter what or where. I do wish it were easier to source the high quality stuff without having to trust importers
@@ShopHumor Exactly, most of the cheap garbage Chinese products that people complain about have been imported by an importer in their country who ordered and paid for a container of cheap garbage products which they then mark up and sell for a profit, the Chinese manufacturer has just made the product at the quality level and the cost the importer requested, or it's stuff people have found online and imported themselves. You get what you pay for, any western importer/distributor can go to China and meet with a manufacturer and order a product to be manufactured to whatever quality level they wanted, but of course higher quality will cost more and be more difficult to sell and make easy profit on. We import our UAV's directly ourselves from a manufacturer usually after someone from our company has talked at length with the manufacturer explaining the level of quality we require, and sometimes one of our guys will travel to China or Korea to visit the manufacturer and discuss this.
What we're wary of is paying an inflated price. Is the $30 item better than the $10 item or did that seller simply inflate the price of the same $10 item?
@@brianwest2775 I mean as far as low quality Chinese products imported and sold by a seller in our country's I think that's obvious, depending on the product and the volume of them the importing is bringing in and selling they are usually make huge profit margins and also giving everyone the impression that Chinese products are overpriced for their quality. If you go online and look for the same products for sale in China from their manufacturer the price is usually very low. I live in Bali Indonesia and through Asian online shopping apps I look at and sometimes buy products for sale directly from their manufacturers in China or even online sellers here, the prices for all sorts of interesting gadgets and products are crazy low, like so low it's not an issue to just buy an item to find out if it's any good or not.
I got two of these mystery Chinese chucks - I tested them for runout and they are great! mine were 13mm version and I paid like 10 USD each with shipping through Amazon last year.
Me too!! I really wanted to show one. I am definitely going to buy some that actually have balls… maybe an old Jacobs one, an old snap on one, and maybe an HHIP China one whenever they get the issue fixed from their manufacturer, then compare those.
The Jacobs ball bearing chucks have an almost identical construction, but with the addition of a thrust bearing above the split collar that minimises friction when tightening the chuck.
@@ShopHumor How about buying the exact same type you took apart that had no bearings. If your second one also has no bearings I think we can conclude... And you can always send it back.
In China, we use these kinds of chucks for the not percesion jobs like drill a 10mm hole for (+0.1/0).If you need good runout, we usually use a ER collect to hold the drill instead.
These gave really good precision for drill chucks (better than .001 inch so .025 mm) but I don't ever really use drills for precision. What I do is drill the hole undersized to my final dimension, then use a reamer, end mill, or boring bar to bring the hole to its final size.
@@ShopHumor Sorry for my poor english. Due to the intense competition in China machining industry, in order to make money, you must produce a large number of high-quality products that meet the requirements in a short period of time, which makes it necessary for us to conduct research on this. If you need percesion holes, i highly recommend trying the NACHI 7572 drill. First, it features a high-precision integral cylindrical shank, which is ideal for precise clamping in ER or hydraulic chucks, a foundation for machining accuracy. Second, its optimized cutting edge design allows the drill bit to position accurately when entering the workpiece and offers excellent chip evacuation. I've successfully drilled IT6 holes on a common machining center using this drill with an ER collet holder.
@@ShopHumor Overall, I want to point out that China also have reasonably priced and high-quality tools, but it's difficult for foreigners to buy them because those engaged in foreign trade are just looking to make money. They don't care about the quality of the products customers can buy, as long as they are usable.For example, low-quality BT40-ER32 is sold for only 35CNY or 7USD, and ER32 collect for just 7CNY or 1 USD. It's not that they are unusable, but due to the lack of dynamic balance and the use of inferior materials, they are fine for rough machining on machines below 8000 rpm. However, over time, the precision deteriorates. High-speed precision machines require tool holders with precise dynamic balance, which can generally be purchased for 150 CNY, and their quality is not at all inferior to the 400 CNY tool holders produced in Taiwan.
It might be fun to try pins or drills throughout the ranges of the chucks to see if they remain accurate. I just bought a "precision" Chinese keyless, and was surprised that it had ~0.001" runout. I'm good with that.
That’s a good call on testing different ranges to see how they perform throughout their travel range. And 0.001” seems great for 99% of drilling operations.
A pin would also be nice because you could measure it further out where a drill bit tip would be and where the runout would matter. That few thousandths at the base could be far more exaggerated at the bit where you're trying to line it up with your mark
@@Kami8705 I thought about that and I agree that would be good information, but I also wanted to measure as close to the jaws as possible to 1. minimize error / maximize consistency between setups and 2. I believe the accuracy rating that the manufacturers supply is measured at the chuck jaws. All good points and suggestions for the future though.
I’ve been considering buying a Taiwan-made milling machine at some point in the (relatively) near future. I really like my PM-25 CNC conversion but it would be fun to have a manual machine, too.
It’s not just the accuracy. The ball bearings allow much greater clamping force. These “errors” are because they are just shippers of products from whatever gives them the lowest price at the time. So when the looks of the product vary, that’s why. When they run out of current product, they replace it with whatever they can get at the lowest price. It’s a shame, but Banggood does that, Vevor does that and others such as HHIP do that. Now, Vertex is usually a higher quality brand, so it’s surprising that something with their name on it isn’t right. MSC industrial has their products. If you get it from them, you know you’re getting what you ordered. For others? Well, maybe they’re not real Vertex products. I have a bunch of surface grinder hubs I bought from HHIP. They look great and are machined and finished well. But they say they are hardened, but they’re not really. I found out as I had to open the taper up a bit.
I'd really like to get an actual made-in-China ball bearing chuck and compare it to a nice old Jacobs Super Chuck to see how different (or not different) they are. You're right about the greater clamping force for sure. A big plus. I was also surprised about the Vertex -- one of them being such high quality than the other, especially comparing side by side with the poor-quality Vertex and the unbranded, made-in-China chuck. The "real" (if they're not both real) Vertex was machined so much better.
@@ShopHumor I have several sizes of the Jacobs models and they’re pretty good. I use them in the lathe as I rarely use chucks on the mill, usually ER-40 collets for the larger size bits and DA versions for the smaller. Both have 0.0002” concentricity and are much more reliable. If you really need accurate small, under 0.500” holes, say, you can get bits of decimal sizing. I don’t know how important it is to you.
.0002" is pretty dang good. I have a few projects coming up that will need small holes, but I don't know yet the exact dimensions I'll need... we will see. I'm going to be picking up some ER40 collets pretty soon now that I have ER40 collet blocks in the shop...
Very interesting disassembly process. I am certain that I would mess it up, but it is great to see it done. It would have been interesting to see a real ball bearing chuck. Thanks for the hard work of putting the video together.
Thanks for commenting! I completely agree and I cannot wait to get my hands on some ball bearing chucks. I am going to be doing a follow up video to determine if the distributor has actually fixed this problem, and then I'll be comparing the cheap China made ball bearing chuck, with a brand new Jacobs brand ball bearing chuck (now made in China), and an old, vintage, USA-made Jacobs brand ball bearing chuck.
Interesting results! Besides runout from the axis of the drill bit being offset from the mounting axis, there could be runout from the bit being tilted. I suggest measuring runout by using a dowel pin or drill blank and indicating away from the chuck jaws.
I like the idea of measuring with a dowel pin or drill blank at a set distance away from the opening of the jaws as well and will incorporate that into future testing. I plan to (eventually) source cheap ball-bearing, made-in-China chuck and compare it with both a brand new, made-in-China Jacobs Super Chuck and an old, USA-made Jacobs Super Chuck.
I bought a large Jacobs "Super Ball Bearing" chuck with a MT5 arbor to fit the 21" swing lathe at work. All was good until it got some crud inside it. So I broke it down to clean it only to discover that a new "Ball Bearing" chuck did not have ball bearings in it. Suffice to say, I was rather disappointed.
I don't have a mill, just a 14 inch Delta drill press. It's got a 5/8 chuck. 2 1/2 inches down from the chuck, measured .002" plenty good for my needs. The mfg date is 9922 which I assume was 1999, September 22. It's got the original Jacob's chuck. I paid $210 at a local tool store. I tapped the chuck up into place when I set it up. I've never removed the chuck, but assume I cleaned the tapers pretty well, so the runout has to be the chuck. I don't use it daily, but I can't imagine life without it. HF had two returned drill presses by the cash register. Might have been a 14 and 16. I can't believe how much a low end drill press costs these days. I'm quite happy with my antique Delta. It was an end of the year sale and I just had to buy it. I love its quality. The chuck is still smooth as silk. I've wondered about all these imported Chaiwan chucks. Tested out pretty nice 👍
Sounds like your press has been a fantastic tool over the years. I bet your pre-installation preparation of the tapers made a difference too. Even though I have the mill, I wouldn’t mind having a nice old drill press like yours. It would be a lot more convenient for a lot of projects. Great comment!
@@ShopHumor Yes, I couldn't live without it. For those that don't drill 3/8 steel plate, even those small tabletop ones are worthwhile because you can drill accurately.... for general stuff I had one and used the heck out of it. Mine was considered "entry level" because it's a 14 inch and only 1/2 hp. It's a very nice quality capacitor-start motor and 16 speeds. I always wanted a lathe and mill, but don't have a place for those.
You cant beat the old stuff. Lots of solid metal and quality components. I'v got an old (1980's) Rockwell variable speed floor drill press. I restored it after the purchase in 2014. I have a 1986 Delta tabletop drill press. Another well made beast. And my favorite, a 1937 (yup) South Bend lathe from the Navy Yard. Was probably used to make parts in WWII. I can still turn down to half a thousandth if I really need to. All still working like new equipment. Cheers
I bought a jacobs chuck from McMaster some 15 years back. I tightened it once and the outside split apart like it had been fractured from the start. Maybe it was dropped or something, but I got a free replacement and have had no issues - though I only use it on rare occasions.
Buying stuff like this from Amazon is dumb. Even if you go to the manufacturers store, you will still often get a counterfeit. Either because someone returned a counterfeit in the box, or because Amazon fulfilled the order and mixed in counterfeits. Learned this the hard way on a few items, I always go to an authorized dealer like McMaster Carr. Moral of the story, if it is cheaper on Amazon, then it is fake.
Amazon giveth and Amazon taketh away. There's a lot of good stuff on there but you definitely have to be careful. Luckily their returns are easy if you get something disagreeable. I ordered my 'ball bearing chuck' in the video from Zoro, who I've had good luck with, but they drop shipped it directly from the distributor themselves (HHIP). The service I got from HHIP was fantastic and I'd highly recommend them. Imports, whether they're from Taiwan or China, are often inferior to the stuff we'd find on McMaster-Carr, but they're also a lot more affordable. If they manage to do the job you need them to do, at a price you can afford, that's a lot better than not having the right tool for the job in the first place because you couldn't afford what McMaster was offering. I buy a lot from McMaster, but I also look for value whenever and wherever I can. Thanks for commenting!
@@ShopHumor the question is this: How precise do you need it to be? Having done QC/QA over the years in both civilian and military, conventional and nuclear applications, the amount of precision needed is what determines the quality of the tooling. You can spend a lot of time, money, and effort trying to make something to within .0001" when +/- 1/16'' is really good enough for the application.
Yeah, Amazon shuffles materials from their different suppliers together at the warehouse, so it's impossible for reputable dealers to maintain quality when selling through them.
I've found that, in general, made in Taiwan stuff is more often higher quality. As for buying from Amazon, there is info 7nder the add to cart button. From what I've seen, if it says Shipped From:Amazon then any returns are typical Amazon returns. AKA I typically walk into Kohl's (or Staples) and return it. No box needed. They scan the QR code that Amazon emails me, take the item, and if I choose to take the Amazon credit (always) it shows up as a gift card balance in a couple hours. If not shipped from Amazon, you may have to box it, ship it back with UPS, FEDEX or USPS. Much more of a pain. I'll pay a couple dollars more j7st to avoid that on the off chance I'll need a return.
That's good! I hope they get this issue solved cause I want to compare a cheap China made ball bearing chuck to an old vintage USA Jacobs Super Chuck and see how they compare
I had that same vertex chuck for years! (3/4" capacity) I kept it on my16" lathe tool cart. It was the go to whenever I needed a keyed chuck for power tapping or bigger drills and the like. was a great chuck for sure
what's incredible about it. first sending some crap then offering more. seriously you chinesia reviewers better don't write anything . your opinion is a nuisance
I have a hammer drill which also featured a Jacobs chuck, after a while it self destructed. I bought a cheap Jacobs chuck to replace it, the new chuck lasted exactly one hole.
Jacobs was bought out and they outsourced much of their chucks to China. If you buy a new jacobs chuck, it is Chinese and the parts don’t interchange. You are only paying for the name.
I also prefer Taiwan made over china. I have on my cnc router a china made spindle 2HP air cooled ER16. the runout was less than .00005" tested with my interapid indicator, could not be happier tested using techniks collet and a carbide blank. runs smooth and quiet
I've got a vertex pro series chuck on my mill at work and literally never had a problem. Thing is though that mine has that eagle on it. Drills holes perfectly for blocks that need to be pretty accurate for the wire edm shop to work with.
I think a lot of them have the Eagle it's been one of their logos for a while. As far as I know Vertex is generally an awesome brand for high value affordable tools like that. I'm not surprised that yours has been accurate. I bet a wire edm shop is fun!
I used couple of vertex vices and er collets, for pro work. No quality issues to speak of. One of the shop I worked at had 18 machines kitted out wiht LEAVE base plates and maybe like 50 vices in total their quality was actually rather impressive. Ps when your checking run out I would recommend using ground bar and checking it atleast 50mm from the face of the chuck
7:10 Louis Rossmann made a video recently about these companies making lots of money on being absolutely nice when they are caught and letting everybody else rot with their maliciously advertised poor quality products, so lets not just praise HHIP too hastily.
Lol they gave him a nice story haha guarantee in 6months there still selling the same junk listed as a ball bearing chuck , minus the balls. They know how to play the game
It's all a numbers game for them. 340 million people in America alone. If the Chinese sell just 10,000 widgets in the U.S. and 10% get return requests, they're still making money. It's why they generally have little to no quality control on consumer products. Cheaper to exchange a defective one than to pay a quality control team and have rejects that don't make it out of the factory. It's why some people give a 5 star review of a product and others give a 1 star. It's all about the numbers.
A few comments on future accuracy tests. 1) measure the TIR of your spindle, then arbor first 2) use a precision ground pin instead of a drill bit 3) use a tenths test indicator Cheers!
There is some very precision tooling available these days, for cheap. You should check out the reviews for the $50-ish machine vise that Vevor sells. They are machined really beautifully, where it matters, they’re robust, and the tolerances are way way way beyond what they should be for a cheap $50 vise. …same with Vevor rotary tables, they’re smooth running, and just so much nicer than what you’d expect for the money. I’m going to buy one of those mystery chucks…that thing was beautiful inside. 👍👍👍 thanks great video
I would have liked to see a longer tool chucked up and measured for runout than the drill. Like a gauge pin measured an inch or two out. Ive had chucks that have little to no runout right at the nose of the chuck but hold the bit at an angle and they are all over the place at the tip of the drill.
Thanks Reini. It's a good suggestion to measure both at the chuck jaws and further from the chuck jaws. Someone else suggested that it would also be good to measure with different diameter pins/drills as well, to see if there's a variance between the minimum and maximum capacity of the chuck, and I like that idea, too. I plan to do a follow up video comparing a brand new, low-budget, China-made ball bearing chuck, a brand new, high-budget, China-made Jacobs Super Chuck, and a vintage, American-made Jacobs Super Chuck, just to see how they compare. I'll incorporate those suggestions into that video!
I do my best to buy Taiwanese tools, quality is always better and the cost difference is negligible. My Taiwanese pencil grinder just won't die, I've probably oiled it twice in 5 years, definatly dropped it in the wire edm tank a couple times. Honestly it's the best value for a tool I've ever bought.
I've been looking at a Taiwan made Precision Matthews milling machine for a while. I already have the PM-25 from them and I love it, but it's a CNC conversion now and I'd like to get a heavy duty manual machine too.
Ive definitely used these chucks at my shop, while I'm not worried about run out so much when drilling a hole for the parts I make most of the time, I have found them to not hold the drill very well and have spun in the chuck multiple times, I have to torque it with a pipe on the chuck key to be safe.
@ShopHumor I have used older chucks that's were legit Jacobs, I noticed the portion that grips the drill has a little bit bigger surface area and I've never had a drill slip with it.
Yeah I like the older Jacobs chucks too. I'm actually working on a comparison between vintage Jacobs chucks (made in USA) and the new ones (now made in China, still Jacobs brand) just to see how they hold up now compared to the old ones.
We ordered an accupro chuck that was hard to open/close right out of the box. It got to the point after a couple of weeks of use that we had to use the chuck key to open and close it. We ended up getting another new one so I cracked open the old one. There were burrs inside left over from drilling the passages for the jaws which had destroyed the cage (plastic) for the ball bearings. The new one feels exactly the same as the one i dissasembled. Very disappointed.
I try to avoid all CCP stuff. The fuel pump I just ordered and put on my 03 Honda was made in China but when you order you don't know where the part is coming from.
Kinda impossible at this point because the keyboard, computer, lcd screen, and/or phone you used to type this comment were all likely made in China. CCP is more like the Chinese Crony Capitalist Party because their govt is in bed with big corporations and profits are privatized.
I bought factory OEM NKG coils for a Honda Accord. Box label showed Made in China. WTF! Buying from China means your money goes to support the CCP and their economy, and doesn't get circulated back into the U.S economy. But the problem is that so many US manufacturers are having the Chinese make their products, marking up the price , and reselling them to us. So I can understand why people are buying directly from China.
Interesting comparison. I have a few Vertex tools in my home shop (in the UK), including a dividing head. They all have proved to be adequate and good value. The finish on machined parts is very good. I think all tools, wherever they comefrom benefit from a strip, debur, clean, re-lube and careful reassembly.
Thank you! I agree with your practice - strip, debur, clean, re-lube, and careful reassembly. That's always been my procedure as well. Glad to hear your experience with Vertex tools has been good. I plan to get more (eventually).
We received the assets of a failed machine shop. In a lista cabinet was an entire drawer of the kinds of chucks, new in box. We have a nearly lifetime supply of good, but ancient Jacobs chucks. The chicom stuff went in the scrap hopper.
I just bought one of the new (now made in China) Jacobs chucks and am going to compare it to the old vintage USA made chucks and see how they've changed.
My dad has a few Snap-On tool boxes and he told me he'd much rather have the HF tool boxes because you can beat the crap out of them and you're not out much money to replace them.
Yes, they can make good stuff, but unfortunately most of the tools that get imported into the U.S. falls into the "Chinesium" category, with the importer not wanting to risk losing money by importing better quality stuff that will still be classified as junk in most people's minds.
I think so because I think if a jaw is contacting a burr, it's going to deflect the jaw some amount, and the inconsistent grease could easily attract grit and grime over time that would cause a similar issue. A few commenters suggested I ought to have done a pre-maintenance accuracy check and I plan to incorporate that into future comparisons.
My question is how well these chucks hold up over time. Especially the jaws that actually come in contact with the bits. Are they fully hardened and then precision ground to each other in the chuck, or are they simply assembled from a box of parts? What do you think?
I think time will tell. I suspect that the mystery chuck that was machined so well is probably going to hold up fine, but the other two I'm more curious about. I plan to (eventually) source a cheap, knock-off China-made ball-bearing chuck and compare it with a new Jacobs Super Chuck (also now made in China I believe), and an old, USA-made Jacobs Super Chuck. I could revisit these chucks then and see how they've held up.
I've heard recently that Amazon has been putting items listed as the same thing in the same warehouse bins. This would mean that even buying from a reputable manufacturer's listing can result in counterfeit items being sent.
Don't count on Amazon for consistent quality products anymore. Its the Wild West now. I gave up purchasing automotive parts from them for the reason you stated above.
You got the wrong one because if amazon thinks two sellers are selling the same exact item they will merge the listings and just send you whichever one is closest. This means even if you go to an official store page on amazon, click their listing and click buy amazon can send you a third party "reseller" (counterfeiters) item instead.
I bought a keyless chuck that was made in Taiwan from a specialist tool shop in NZ. I wanted it for my mill for smaller accurate work. I normally use an ER 40 set up but not so user friendly on stuff below 7 mm. Anyway used chuck and then it went wonky, woddly drill. Took it back. Tough they said. $278 gone. I had to buy another. I took my dead one to bits and jaws are filable! Its the luck of the draw. My expensive rohm is 20 years old, been used pretty hard at time but still my go to chuck on the lathe.
I've had some good feedback on refining that testing methodology (including, as you suggest, a dowel or gauge pin), as well as measuring at the top of the pin closest to the jaws, then at the bottom of the pin to see if there's a difference in runout between the two. Thanks for commenting, I really do appreciate the feedback because it will help future videos.
Amazon sells a lot of fake products that look very much like the original. As one reviewer noted, if you want the real thing, you must buy it from a brick and mortar store.
Good video. It would have been good to know the runout on the machine itself by measuring off the Jacob’s taper without the chucks in place. That factors into the total runout as measured in the video.
Im not positive on this question, but wouldnt you want to check runout on the end of a bit that was actually doing the drilling? If i understand correctly, the runout would be greater at the far end. Right?
It would be good to check on both the top and the bottom, and also good to use a more purpose built measuring tool than just a drill bit. But for cheap chucks I figured it would get us in the ballpark. I plan to do a follow up video to make sure that these guys corrected the problem and I'll improve my testing methodology then.
I had bought a new Rockwell floor mount drill press. Right out of the box, using a dial indicator, the chuck had .014 of runout. Future investigation showed it was the spindle shaft that was out of wack.
One thing to look out for when shopping Amazon is that people will buy a product and return their old or defective one for a refund. Then, Amazon sells the returned product to a new buyer, having no clue that it's been switched. I don't blame Amazon warehouse employees for not being able to catch this or even care.
Yep. I’ve had that exact thing happen to me. Actually the last one off die I needed was clearly rusty and used when it arrived - there was lots of wear on the teeth of the die and metal shavings stuck to them too. It was the right size, so I’m sure someone ordered a new one and then returned their old one to basically get a new one for free. Annoying.
Why returns ain't checked is like trusting the government to do you no wrong.. The big companies should have this sorted before any refund is given to suspect customers.. just goes to show no one even cares anymore..
I have a few now too. Bought a set of wedges and now I have the collet blocks and they're solid too. Gonna try to test their ball bearing chuck whenever it gets corrected.
Typically, a Jacobs-style chuck jaw does not need to be indexed prior to reassembly. They’re designed with self-centering jaws that should align correctly when reassembled without specific indexing. When re-assembling I do always mark mine to put them back where they came from. I’ve seen some chucks with jaws that came numbered from the factory, but most I’ve seen haven’t been marked.
I only buy cheep Chinese chucks on eBay now that jacobs buy their chucks from China and they no longer sell rebuild kits for their new Chinese chucks. I’ve had good luck with the eBay chucks except for one. Runout was wildly horrific for that one chuck. Something like 0.040. Imagine what that looked like at the end of a drill bit. I could draw circles with it. Luckily the seller had no problem with the return. The chuck was a 5/8 keyless with R8 arbor installed. I didn’t bother to verify if the arbor or the chuck was the problem. I just returned it.
New sub here. I've heard really good things about HHIP. I've never had an issue with any of their tools either. Quality is great, both their products and their support.
Thanks for subscribing and taking the time to leave a comment. Much appreciated! Glad to hear your experience with HHIP and their products has been positive as well.
I can't speak to tools much, but I have gotten pricey astrophotography equipment from China. It's generally not without issue (a $4000 camera had to be returned and replaced because it didn't work out of the box, and a $9000 mount had to be sent in for warranty in 2 months), but once I got working equipment , (it still works) I had excellent value for the money spent.
You proved my point that Chinese manufacturers have little to no quality control. Everything goes out the door. Cheaper to deal with a return than to pay a quality control team that will reject bad products. It's a numbers game.
Recently on another You Tube sight the host had purchased a "Tool" on Amazon. He noticed the packaging was different from an earlier purchase? He contacted the tool manufacturer who said if you didn't purchase directly from us then the item is probably a Chinese knock off and we don't honor or warrant repair of said item! The host said he had bought most of his tools from Amazon and assumed they would be warranted? I should clarify these tools were the battery operated type.
At some point in the future I plan to evaluate and compare a cheap China ball bearing chuck with a new Jacobs Super Chuck (the new ones are all made in China now), as well as a vintage USA-made Jacobs Super Chuck.
After updating my old Taiwan made Jet bench drill press (bearings, new stop system, new spindle lock & a new Cushman BB chuck.) I had no perceptible runout on the spindle taper using a Mitutoyo dial test indicator. When I checked the chuck runout, using a gage pin, I had .003" runout. Disappointing. A much cheaper chuck on my milling machine has less than .001. Not a huge deal since I don't expect a drilled hole to be all that accurate anyhow.
Do you suppose they load it up with grease with the expectation that it will stay lubricated for life as the grease starts to break down? I know it's not unusual for something brand new to feel stiff but will loosen up the more you use it.
Yes, I do. I think they just jam pack it full of thick, heavy grease because most people are never going to disassemble it to do periodic maintenance, and the thick grease coating everything will act as a corrosion preventative. The light coating of grease on mine makes for smoother operation but I'll need to occasionally repeat the process.
There's a lot of issues going on with Amazon these days. A couple of weeks ago I ordered a pair of Shimano MT200 brake calipers. What showed up instead was a game controller. I'm still waiting for my refund to come through.
@ShopHumor Totally agree with you on the sheer greatness of the MT420s. I've upgraded one of my bikes (a folding bike, but not just _any_ folding bike - a super-rare, full-suspension Dahon Jetstream) with a set of MT420 calipers/MT401 levers and they are impressive. I had another set of 420/401 on my other folding bike - a Dahon Hemingway, which is my daily rider and errand runner - that originally came with puny pads the size of a quarter (BB5, and the calipers aren't even real BB5s) that just didn't cut it. I took the 420s off after a while because they were just too powerful for everyday use on a bike as neutral and as mild-mannered (despite the name) as the Hemingway. Now I'm running mechanical Tektro Aries on the Hemingway and I couldn't be happier. I'd ordered the MT200s because I already had a pair of new MT201 levers and new BH90 lines - which would've made for a nice hydraulic upgrade, but Amazon just had to stick a rod in my spokes!
I also have been impressed with Shars and HHIP so far! I love my Mitutoyo measuring tools and I also have had good luck with Brown and Sharpe. I don't have any Starrett in my toolbox just yet because of the price, but I've actually been looking at some older ones on eBay just this week that are reasonable...
@@ShopHumor What I noticed about the Starrett is its resilience and its sensitivity. It is made in such a way that it is relatively hard to damage- the indicator body is sprung against the face and can give. It is so sensitive that even though mine has its small ticks at .001", I can count on repeatability to .0005, because there is so little internal friction in the mechanism. The arms clamps and joints, though simple, are much more precise and smooth. I got what I paid for, after 25 years nursing along a Central Tool unit I bought for $60 in 1997.
For sure. For drilling, the .001 runout on these was fantastic. If I need a hole to hit a precise tolerance I'll drill it out undersize and then use an end mill, reamer, or boring bar to bring it up to final dimension -- saving wear and tear on my good cutters and using up my cheap ones. And if a hole doesn't need to have a precise tolerance, .001 runout is way more than enough to just drill it to the final dimension.
You MUST replace the drill press quill-shaft bearings and I sent my quill-shaft out to a machine shop to be TRUED (It's a Chinese cheap-o, like a Herbar Fraught 13-speed floor stander but another "brand"). NOW it's true to .003" for under $200, $109 for the REAL Jacobs 77 chuck. Honestly, except for Japanese drill bits or Diamond D's, it's nearly impossible to find drill bits true to .003".
For me I would choose made in Taiwan because I used to live there and I’d rather support manufacturing in a democratic country that doesn’t commit human rights violations.
There's a good chance the manufacture of taiwan chuck is outsourced to a factory in mainland china which also make identical products using same machinery and process to sell for themselves without branding. It's a quite common practice around many industries. For something simple like tooling components or floor tile it would be practical the same except branding while for more complex product like appliance they would use the same technology to design something under their own brand (and often add some gimmick that would give you mixed feelings).
I do personal car/autobody projects on the side. My personal feelings on made in China products, is not that everything is of poor quality; it's rather more that it CAN be. To put a finer point on it, I have little to no guarantee of the quality in the product I'm buying. So it could be great, or it could be terrible. It's the international toss up, where shipping wait times are high.
I am certain there is really high quality stuff being produced in China... their sheer size almost guarantees it. It's just really hard to know what you're getting before you buy it over here, as you noted. And I think a lot of the importers are buying the bottom of the barrel stuff to save a few pennies per unit
Wouldn't give up my Jacobs Superchuck for anything else for that kind of duty. Bought a Taiwan (Parlec at the time, bought by TMC I think maybe) mill vice on recommendation of many, vs. a Kurt for almost 2X the money. When it arrived, I took it to work and compared it and a Kurt on the big CMM. Also tried some workholding torture tests, measured stiffness... The only different was that the Kurt cost almost 2X as much and the Parlec opened to 9" where the Kurt only opened to 6". No brainer! Some good companies or manufacturing partnerships do pop up in China occasionally. I am fond of Fenix Lights for my EDC and for bicycle lights. They've been around a minute and they do not lie or exaggerate their lumen output numbers. That might be the only Chinese or partly Chinese company I can think of that I've had positive experiences with.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for watching!! Here's the two chucks in the video:
- *No Balls Ball Bearing Chuck:* amzn.to/3YlBkpW
- *Vertex Chuck:* amzn.to/4eYsJzg
More links in the description. THANKS AGAIN for watching and all the comments.
The MYSTERY CHUCK has been identified by a viewer, @jasonpoletta1797 as a 10062 or 3303-078. Don't have a link to a US retailer for it unfortunately. Thanks!!
I have a chuck that is only one gallon out, made in USA.
Just patch the hole and refill it with chuck sauce, it will be good as new.
You did not say and I am not versed well enough to tell from the vid. Were they designed for balls? If so, could you add them? And would it be worth it?
I would buy a second one on HHIP for another video to see if they fixed the problem!
Sounds like a happy customer experience but it might be the repertoire that they use to anybody that brings it up. They don't loose anything. They just need to give a refund to few that opens it and keep selling neutered chucks to other customers.
“Not looking for perfection but looking for value “. Well stated
Thank you!
I talked to the HHIP rep at IMTS and handled a bunch of chucks and other tooling. I was impressed all around. Glad to hear they are treating people well. I’m going to try some of their stuff next time I am buying.
Yeah I was very impressed. Top notch service.
@@ShopHumor their granite metrology products were a pleasant surprise if you need that sort of thing
Actually, I do. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give them a look.
When checking run out on a drill chuck, you want to check it with a smaller than maximum size drill. The idea here is with less of the jaws being supported by the body of the chuck, the precision of the holes that the jaws ride in will manifest itself. Besides, run out on a maximum size drill is far less important that with the teeny tiny drills we sometime use.
The advantage of the ball bearing chuck over a plain bearing chuck is less friction is lost on the rotation of the collar to tighten the drill. So for an equal amount of force on the key, the drill is gripped much tighter. The second advantage is long term accuracy. Since you do not have two parts sliding over each other the amount of wear of the collar is reduced. When shopping for drill chucks, and I have a choice between a new plain bearing import chuck and a used, rusty, obviously well used Jacobs ball bearing chuck, I will pick the Jacobs and just clean it up.
Good tips, thanks for the feedback!
I bought a jacobs chuck 2 years ago. Paid full price. I damaged it and bought the rebuild kit. The new parts didn’t fit. Called jacobs and found out that the new chucks are now made in China and the rebuild kits are only for the older (non-Chinese) chucks. All new jacobs chucks are Chinese and they are considered disposable, yet the customer pays full price.
If I understand correctly I imagine it's also a lot easier to replace a worn bearing than it is to replace one or two sections of the chuck itself as well. Assuming the time/cost is worth it, don't do shop work so no idea on the actual time and cost of a repair like that over just buying a new one.
I bought a 3/8" Sears Craftsman variable speed drill on sale for about $35 around 1977. A year or two later, I bought a Jacobs chuck for it for around $45. They both still work great!
That's a hell of a good value then if you're still getting good use out of both of them! Lot's of years of good service :)
1978 for me and the sale price of the drill was $39. YOu'd hafta spend $200 today to get the same quality and durability.
Guys, as a Chinese person, all I can say is that most of the time you get a bad impression of a Made in China product is because the company that sells you the product jacked up the price way too much. For example the chuck shown in this video, B18 drill chuck usually cost about 10 bucks here in mainland China, and that's with shipping. Even jacobs B18 chucks, usually does not exceed 20 bucks range. Think about it, if you spend 70 bucks on a chuck and less than 10 bucks is going to the actual making of the product. There will 100% be expectation and reality drop.
I think Chinese tools have a bad reputation due to more significant quality issues from back in the 80s. In my experience, Chinese tools are really not that different than tools made anywhere else - you can get really good ones, or really bad ones.
One of the things I wanted to do was evaluate the machining and precision of a made in China chuck to compare to a made in Taiwan chuck, and while the internal machining was distinctly worse on two of the chucks compared to the third, the performance / accuracy was fantastic across the board.
@@ShopHumor Well, the issue is this: the Chinese will make anything you want, to any price point you want. And they will do it well. If you want a cheap item, not too precise with fit and finish, they will do that. If you want something precision with much better fit and finish, made from specific materials, they can do that too. The question is how much do you want to pay for it. Just like with Western companies.
But you better supply your own engineering. While they are getting better, they are still not really up to Western standards, and part of that goes right back to the Cultural Revolution concepts. But that is a different topic.
It's absolutely an incredibly complex issue indeed. Eventually I'd like to source an old, USA-made Jacobs Super Chuck and compare it with a brand new, China-made Jacobs Super Chuck, and then compare those two with a cheap, unbranded China-made ball-bearing chuck and see how they all compare.
Don't forget ROHM, and there are other makes too. The issue with buying anything Chinese aside from hit or miss quality is that it supports arguably the most evil government in the world the CCP and their weapon the PLA. Fight with your credit card now, not a rifle later.
Many products from China are better than American products these days. It all has to do with scale and learning curves. I'm sure there were some oldheads in the UK that still thought the same about domestic products for awhile, but there aren't too many of those around now.
I’m really pleased with HHiP, but blown away by Accu-size, (Canada CNC), most of their new stuff is their own design and they are absolute jewel. My Accusize ER collet chuck is a work of art, mirror finish and zero runout
Thanks for the tip!! I’ll check them out asap :)
@@ShopHumor they’re basically like the Canadian Shars, and sell a lot of stuff on Amazon .
So some of their stuff is generics , but all of their new stuff is their own original designs , just like Shars.
Oh, the Shars Tegra vise is awesome
Thanks Andy, I appreciate a good tool tip :)
@@AndySomogyi I can also vouch for Accu-size! Great stuff!!
I've bought a few accusize parts and I thought the price might be too good to be true but I've had nothing but good luck myself
I work for a company that flys large helicopter UAVs on long range geophysical survey missions, we source our base drones which we then modify from Taiwan and China and Korea. What we find is that you simply get what you pay for regardless of the country of manufacture, pay for a cheaply made and priced product that's what you get, ask for and pay for a higher quality more expensive product and that's what you get. Everyone has this attitude that China sells cheap crap, and they do if that's what you want to pay for, but they can and will and do manufacture to whatever standard you require, if you want high quality you have to pay for it.
I’m 100% sure you’re right - you absolutely get what you pay for no matter what or where. I do wish it were easier to source the high quality stuff without having to trust importers
True. The price never lies.
@@ShopHumor Exactly, most of the cheap garbage Chinese products that people complain about have been imported by an importer in their country who ordered and paid for a container of cheap garbage products which they then mark up and sell for a profit, the Chinese manufacturer has just made the product at the quality level and the cost the importer requested, or it's stuff people have found online and imported themselves. You get what you pay for, any western importer/distributor can go to China and meet with a manufacturer and order a product to be manufactured to whatever quality level they wanted, but of course higher quality will cost more and be more difficult to sell and make easy profit on. We import our UAV's directly ourselves from a manufacturer usually after someone from our company has talked at length with the manufacturer explaining the level of quality we require, and sometimes one of our guys will travel to China or Korea to visit the manufacturer and discuss this.
What we're wary of is paying an inflated price. Is the $30 item better than the $10 item or did that seller simply inflate the price of the same $10 item?
@@brianwest2775 I mean as far as low quality Chinese products imported and sold by a seller in our country's I think that's obvious, depending on the product and the volume of them the importing is bringing in and selling they are usually make huge profit margins and also giving everyone the impression that Chinese products are overpriced for their quality. If you go online and look for the same products for sale in China from their manufacturer the price is usually very low. I live in Bali Indonesia and through Asian online shopping apps I look at and sometimes buy products for sale directly from their manufacturers in China or even online sellers here, the prices for all sorts of interesting gadgets and products are crazy low, like so low it's not an issue to just buy an item to find out if it's any good or not.
I got two of these mystery Chinese chucks - I tested them for runout and they are great! mine were 13mm version and I paid like 10 USD each with shipping through Amazon last year.
That's an incredible deal!!
A polite complaint got results well done you, interesting video thanks
Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching!
50 year old tools are the best! Thank you, Dad!
Would like to have seen a " ball bearing chuck " insides , even an old / used one ?
Thanks
Me too!! I really wanted to show one. I am definitely going to buy some that actually have balls… maybe an old Jacobs one, an old snap on one, and maybe an HHIP China one whenever they get the issue fixed from their manufacturer, then compare those.
The Jacobs ball bearing chucks have an almost identical construction, but with the addition of a thrust bearing above the split collar that minimises friction when tightening the chuck.
@@ShopHumor How about buying the exact same type you took apart that had no bearings. If your second one also has no bearings I think we can conclude... And you can always send it back.
In China, we use these kinds of chucks for the not percesion jobs like drill a 10mm hole for (+0.1/0).If you need good runout, we usually use a ER collect to hold the drill instead.
These gave really good precision for drill chucks (better than .001 inch so .025 mm) but I don't ever really use drills for precision. What I do is drill the hole undersized to my final dimension, then use a reamer, end mill, or boring bar to bring the hole to its final size.
@@ShopHumor Sorry for my poor english. Due to the intense competition in China machining industry, in order to make money, you must produce a large number of high-quality products that meet the requirements in a short period of time, which makes it necessary for us to conduct research on this. If you need percesion holes, i highly recommend trying the NACHI 7572 drill. First, it features a high-precision integral cylindrical shank, which is ideal for precise clamping in ER or hydraulic chucks, a foundation for machining accuracy. Second, its optimized cutting edge design allows the drill bit to position accurately when entering the workpiece and offers excellent chip evacuation. I've successfully drilled IT6 holes on a common machining center using this drill with an ER collet holder.
@@robinlu4029 thanks for the suggestion!
@@ShopHumor Overall, I want to point out that China also have reasonably priced and high-quality tools, but it's difficult for foreigners to buy them because those engaged in foreign trade are just looking to make money. They don't care about the quality of the products customers can buy, as long as they are usable.For example, low-quality BT40-ER32 is sold for only 35CNY or 7USD, and ER32 collect for just 7CNY or 1 USD. It's not that they are unusable, but due to the lack of dynamic balance and the use of inferior materials, they are fine for rough machining on machines below 8000 rpm. However, over time, the precision deteriorates. High-speed precision machines require tool holders with precise dynamic balance, which can generally be purchased for 150 CNY, and their quality is not at all inferior to the 400 CNY tool holders produced in Taiwan.
most collets are the best next to albright
Good stuff, well worth having chuck videos rec'd by YT for the next six months.
It might be fun to try pins or drills throughout the ranges of the chucks to see if they remain accurate.
I just bought a "precision" Chinese keyless, and was surprised that it had ~0.001" runout. I'm good with that.
That’s a good call on testing different ranges to see how they perform throughout their travel range. And 0.001” seems great for 99% of drilling operations.
A pin would also be nice because you could measure it further out where a drill bit tip would be and where the runout would matter. That few thousandths at the base could be far more exaggerated at the bit where you're trying to line it up with your mark
@@Kami8705 I thought about that and I agree that would be good information, but I also wanted to measure as close to the jaws as possible to 1. minimize error / maximize consistency between setups and 2. I believe the accuracy rating that the manufacturers supply is measured at the chuck jaws.
All good points and suggestions for the future though.
Thank you for this great video and the education.
Thanks for watching, David!
I'm a big fan of vertex and Taiwanese stuff in general
I’ve been considering buying a Taiwan-made milling machine at some point in the (relatively) near future. I really like my PM-25 CNC conversion but it would be fun to have a manual machine, too.
@@ShopHumori have the pm728vt, real happy with it so far. If i could do it again i might go larger.
That’s actually one I’ve been looking at. I’ve also considered the PM-935 series but that’s at least double the $$ and out of reach for now…
@@ShopHumor yeh, that's how i ended up with the 728 :)
I think you did well! :)
It’s not just the accuracy. The ball bearings allow much greater clamping force. These “errors” are because they are just shippers of products from whatever gives them the lowest price at the time. So when the looks of the product vary, that’s why. When they run out of current product, they replace it with whatever they can get at the lowest price. It’s a shame, but Banggood does that, Vevor does that and others such as HHIP do that. Now, Vertex is usually a higher quality brand, so it’s surprising that something with their name on it isn’t right. MSC industrial has their products. If you get it from them, you know you’re getting what you ordered. For others? Well, maybe they’re not real Vertex products. I have a bunch of surface grinder hubs I bought from HHIP. They look great and are machined and finished well. But they say they are hardened, but they’re not really. I found out as I had to open the taper up a bit.
I'd really like to get an actual made-in-China ball bearing chuck and compare it to a nice old Jacobs Super Chuck to see how different (or not different) they are. You're right about the greater clamping force for sure. A big plus. I was also surprised about the Vertex -- one of them being such high quality than the other, especially comparing side by side with the poor-quality Vertex and the unbranded, made-in-China chuck. The "real" (if they're not both real) Vertex was machined so much better.
@@ShopHumor I have several sizes of the Jacobs models and they’re pretty good. I use them in the lathe as I rarely use chucks on the mill, usually ER-40 collets for the larger size bits and DA versions for the smaller. Both have 0.0002” concentricity and are much more reliable. If you really need accurate small, under 0.500” holes, say, you can get bits of decimal sizing. I don’t know how important it is to you.
.0002" is pretty dang good. I have a few projects coming up that will need small holes, but I don't know yet the exact dimensions I'll need... we will see. I'm going to be picking up some ER40 collets pretty soon now that I have ER40 collet blocks in the shop...
Very interesting disassembly process. I am certain that I would mess it up, but it is great to see it done. It would have been interesting to see a real ball bearing chuck. Thanks for the hard work of putting the video together.
Thanks for commenting! I completely agree and I cannot wait to get my hands on some ball bearing chucks. I am going to be doing a follow up video to determine if the distributor has actually fixed this problem, and then I'll be comparing the cheap China made ball bearing chuck, with a brand new Jacobs brand ball bearing chuck (now made in China), and an old, vintage, USA-made Jacobs brand ball bearing chuck.
Interesting results! Besides runout from the axis of the drill bit being offset from the mounting axis, there could be runout from the bit being tilted. I suggest measuring runout by using a dowel pin or drill blank and indicating away from the chuck jaws.
I like the idea of measuring with a dowel pin or drill blank at a set distance away from the opening of the jaws as well and will incorporate that into future testing. I plan to (eventually) source cheap ball-bearing, made-in-China chuck and compare it with both a brand new, made-in-China Jacobs Super Chuck and an old, USA-made Jacobs Super Chuck.
I bought a large Jacobs "Super Ball Bearing" chuck with a MT5 arbor to fit the 21" swing lathe at work. All was good until it got some crud inside it. So I broke it down to clean it only to discover that a new "Ball Bearing" chuck did not have ball bearings in it. Suffice to say, I was rather disappointed.
I don't have a mill, just a 14 inch Delta drill press. It's got a 5/8 chuck. 2 1/2 inches down from the chuck, measured
.002" plenty good for my needs.
The mfg date is 9922 which I assume was 1999, September 22.
It's got the original Jacob's chuck. I paid $210 at a local tool store. I tapped the chuck up into place when I set it up. I've never removed the chuck, but assume I cleaned the tapers pretty well, so the runout has to be the chuck. I don't use it daily, but I can't imagine life without it.
HF had two returned drill presses by the cash register. Might have been a 14 and 16. I can't believe how much a low end drill press costs these days.
I'm quite happy with my antique Delta. It was an end of the year sale and I just had to buy it. I love its quality.
The chuck is still smooth as silk.
I've wondered about all these imported Chaiwan chucks. Tested out pretty nice 👍
Sounds like your press has been a fantastic tool over the years. I bet your pre-installation preparation of the tapers made a difference too. Even though I have the mill, I wouldn’t mind having a nice old drill press like yours. It would be a lot more convenient for a lot of projects.
Great comment!
@@ShopHumor Yes, I couldn't live without it. For those that don't drill 3/8 steel plate, even those small tabletop ones are worthwhile because you can drill accurately.... for general stuff
I had one and used the heck out of it.
Mine was considered "entry level" because it's a 14 inch and only 1/2 hp. It's a very nice quality capacitor-start motor and 16 speeds.
I always wanted a lathe and mill, but don't have a place for those.
You cant beat the old stuff. Lots of solid metal and quality components. I'v got an old (1980's) Rockwell variable speed floor drill press. I restored it after the purchase in 2014. I have a 1986 Delta tabletop drill press. Another well made beast. And my favorite, a 1937 (yup) South Bend lathe from the Navy Yard. Was probably used to make parts in WWII. I can still turn down to half a thousandth if I really need to. All still working like new equipment. Cheers
@@randywl8925 Maybe consider a tabletop milling machine. It can also function as a drill press. You won't want to leave the shop!
@steadyeddie7453 I wish I had room. I don't need precision often, but I probably would if I had a mill
😁
I bought a jacobs chuck from McMaster some 15 years back. I tightened it once and the outside split apart like it had been fractured from the start. Maybe it was dropped or something, but I got a free replacement and have had no issues - though I only use it on rare occasions.
That's crazy that it cracked so easily. I think you're probably right - it must have been damaged in shipping or during manufacturing.
Buying stuff like this from Amazon is dumb.
Even if you go to the manufacturers store, you will still often get a counterfeit. Either because someone returned a counterfeit in the box, or because Amazon fulfilled the order and mixed in counterfeits.
Learned this the hard way on a few items, I always go to an authorized dealer like McMaster Carr.
Moral of the story, if it is cheaper on Amazon, then it is fake.
Amazon giveth and Amazon taketh away. There's a lot of good stuff on there but you definitely have to be careful. Luckily their returns are easy if you get something disagreeable. I ordered my 'ball bearing chuck' in the video from Zoro, who I've had good luck with, but they drop shipped it directly from the distributor themselves (HHIP). The service I got from HHIP was fantastic and I'd highly recommend them. Imports, whether they're from Taiwan or China, are often inferior to the stuff we'd find on McMaster-Carr, but they're also a lot more affordable. If they manage to do the job you need them to do, at a price you can afford, that's a lot better than not having the right tool for the job in the first place because you couldn't afford what McMaster was offering.
I buy a lot from McMaster, but I also look for value whenever and wherever I can.
Thanks for commenting!
@@ShopHumor the question is this: How precise do you need it to be? Having done QC/QA over the years in both civilian and military, conventional and nuclear applications, the amount of precision needed is what determines the quality of the tooling. You can spend a lot of time, money, and effort trying to make something to within .0001" when +/- 1/16'' is really good enough for the application.
Yeah, Amazon shuffles materials from their different suppliers together at the warehouse, so it's impossible for reputable dealers to maintain quality when selling through them.
I've found that, in general, made in Taiwan stuff is more often higher quality. As for buying from Amazon, there is info 7nder the add to cart button. From what I've seen, if it says Shipped From:Amazon then any returns are typical Amazon returns. AKA I typically walk into Kohl's (or Staples) and return it. No box needed. They scan the QR code that Amazon emails me, take the item, and if I choose to take the Amazon credit (always) it shows up as a gift card balance in a couple hours. If not shipped from Amazon, you may have to box it, ship it back with UPS, FEDEX or USPS. Much more of a pain. I'll pay a couple dollars more j7st to avoid that on the off chance I'll need a return.
Good point on preferring value over perfection.
Perfection sometimes comes with flaws.
I've had good luck with HHIP over the years, no complaints on anything I have bought from them.
That's good! I hope they get this issue solved cause I want to compare a cheap China made ball bearing chuck to an old vintage USA Jacobs Super Chuck and see how they compare
I had that same vertex chuck for years! (3/4" capacity) I kept it on my16" lathe tool cart. It was the go to whenever I needed a keyed chuck for power tapping or bigger drills and the like. was a great chuck for sure
That's awesome. I really like it. Right now its my go-to chuck for my CNC milling machine.
That's pretty incredible customer service.
It really is. I was surprised!
They can afford it when selling stuff they get for cheap and put a hefty mark up on top.
what's incredible about it. first sending some crap then offering more. seriously you chinesia reviewers better don't write anything . your opinion is a nuisance
That clip of you dropping the chuck makes me have to subscribe.
haha I kept it in there because it made me laugh. glad you subscribed :)
i came to see what a ball bearing-ed chuck looked inside. i did not see it.
Yes, that's exactly right. Me too!
I have a hammer drill which also featured a Jacobs chuck, after a while it self destructed. I bought a cheap Jacobs chuck to replace it, the new chuck lasted exactly one hole.
You'd think they'd last longer than one dang hole...
@ThomasRogue-s8y lmao, that must have been a hell of a hole
Jacobs was bought out and they outsourced much of their chucks to China. If you buy a new jacobs chuck, it is Chinese and the parts don’t interchange. You are only paying for the name.
I also prefer Taiwan made over china. I have on my cnc router a china made spindle 2HP air cooled ER16. the runout was less than .00005" tested with my interapid indicator, could not be happier tested using techniks collet and a carbide blank. runs smooth and quiet
That's really incredible accuracy! Very impressive
I've got a vertex pro series chuck on my mill at work and literally never had a problem. Thing is though that mine has that eagle on it. Drills holes perfectly for blocks that need to be pretty accurate for the wire edm shop to work with.
I think a lot of them have the Eagle it's been one of their logos for a while. As far as I know Vertex is generally an awesome brand for high value affordable tools like that. I'm not surprised that yours has been accurate. I bet a wire edm shop is fun!
My only experience with chucks is how many different sizes of keys are needed for the different models.
It’s ridiculous haha
And you end up with a collection of odd sized keys that don't fit anything.
I used couple of vertex vices and er collets, for pro work. No quality issues to speak of. One of the shop I worked at had 18 machines kitted out wiht LEAVE base plates and maybe like 50 vices in total their quality was actually rather impressive.
Ps when your checking run out I would recommend using ground bar and checking it atleast 50mm from the face of the chuck
Thanks for the tip!
7:10 Louis Rossmann made a video recently about these companies making lots of money on being absolutely nice when they are caught and letting everybody else rot with their maliciously advertised poor quality products, so lets not just praise HHIP too hastily.
Lol they gave him a nice story haha guarantee in 6months there still selling the same junk listed as a ball bearing chuck , minus the balls.
They know how to play the game
For sure, trust but verify. I'll be following up in an upcoming video to see if they've corrected the issue or not.
It's all a numbers game for them. 340 million people in America alone. If the Chinese sell just 10,000 widgets in the U.S. and 10% get return requests, they're still making money. It's why they generally have little to no quality control on consumer products. Cheaper to exchange a defective one than to pay a quality control team and have rejects that don't make it out of the factory. It's why some people give a 5 star review of a product and others give a 1 star. It's all about the numbers.
You ordered the vertex castrati models, they also make a higher pitched noise during use
lmao, clever. i like it
A few comments on future accuracy tests.
1) measure the TIR of your spindle, then arbor first
2) use a precision ground pin instead of a drill bit
3) use a tenths test indicator
Cheers!
Thanks for the feedback!
There is some very precision tooling available these days, for cheap. You should check out the reviews for the $50-ish machine vise that Vevor sells. They are machined really beautifully, where it matters, they’re robust, and the tolerances are way way way beyond what they should be for a cheap $50 vise. …same with Vevor rotary tables, they’re smooth running, and just so much nicer than what you’d expect for the money.
I’m going to buy one of those mystery chucks…that thing was beautiful inside. 👍👍👍 thanks great video
I’ve bought a couple of Chinese’s made 1-16mm mt2 keyless chucks from eBay for just £16 delivered. I was blown away how smooth and accurate they were.
That’s awesome. What a great deal! I plan to do some more chuck testing in the future including some cheap keyless ones
I would have liked to see a longer tool chucked up and measured for runout than the drill. Like a gauge pin measured an inch or two out. Ive had chucks that have little to no runout right at the nose of the chuck but hold the bit at an angle and they are all over the place at the tip of the drill.
Thanks Reini. It's a good suggestion to measure both at the chuck jaws and further from the chuck jaws. Someone else suggested that it would also be good to measure with different diameter pins/drills as well, to see if there's a variance between the minimum and maximum capacity of the chuck, and I like that idea, too. I plan to do a follow up video comparing a brand new, low-budget, China-made ball bearing chuck, a brand new, high-budget, China-made Jacobs Super Chuck, and a vintage, American-made Jacobs Super Chuck, just to see how they compare.
I'll incorporate those suggestions into that video!
I do my best to buy Taiwanese tools, quality is always better and the cost difference is negligible. My Taiwanese pencil grinder just won't die, I've probably oiled it twice in 5 years, definatly dropped it in the wire edm tank a couple times. Honestly it's the best value for a tool I've ever bought.
I've been looking at a Taiwan made Precision Matthews milling machine for a while. I already have the PM-25 from them and I love it, but it's a CNC conversion now and I'd like to get a heavy duty manual machine too.
Same here.
For budget friendly wrenches, sockets, etc. I've always had very good results with Taiwan.
Ive definitely used these chucks at my shop, while I'm not worried about run out so much when drilling a hole for the parts I make most of the time, I have found them to not hold the drill very well and have spun in the chuck multiple times, I have to torque it with a pipe on the chuck key to be safe.
Which chuck do you find grips best?
@ShopHumor I have used older chucks that's were legit Jacobs, I noticed the portion that grips the drill has a little bit bigger surface area and I've never had a drill slip with it.
Yeah I like the older Jacobs chucks too. I'm actually working on a comparison between vintage Jacobs chucks (made in USA) and the new ones (now made in China, still Jacobs brand) just to see how they hold up now compared to the old ones.
Made in Taiwan ❤👍
We ordered an accupro chuck that was hard to open/close right out of the box. It got to the point after a couple of weeks of use that we had to use the chuck key to open and close it. We ended up getting another new one so I cracked open the old one. There were burrs inside left over from drilling the passages for the jaws which had destroyed the cage (plastic) for the ball bearings. The new one feels exactly the same as the one i dissasembled. Very disappointed.
That's awful and I agree, very disappointing. Those burs can really mess things up internally
I try to avoid all CCP stuff. The fuel pump I just ordered and put on my 03 Honda was made in China but when you order you don't know where the part is coming from.
I wish I knew where everything was made before I ordered it
Kinda impossible at this point because the keyboard, computer, lcd screen, and/or phone you used to type this comment were all likely made in China. CCP is more like the Chinese Crony Capitalist Party because their govt is in bed with big corporations and profits are privatized.
This world is also avoiding letting your survive
I bought factory OEM NKG coils for a Honda Accord. Box label showed Made in China. WTF! Buying from China means your money goes to support the CCP and their economy, and doesn't get circulated back into the U.S economy. But the problem is that so many US manufacturers are having the Chinese make their products, marking up the price , and reselling them to us. So I can understand why people are buying directly from China.
Interesting comparison. I have a few Vertex tools in my home shop (in the UK), including a dividing head. They all have proved to be adequate and good value. The finish on machined parts is very good.
I think all tools, wherever they comefrom benefit from a strip, debur, clean, re-lube and careful reassembly.
Thank you! I agree with your practice - strip, debur, clean, re-lube, and careful reassembly. That's always been my procedure as well. Glad to hear your experience with Vertex tools has been good. I plan to get more (eventually).
We received the assets of a failed machine shop. In a lista cabinet was an entire drawer of the kinds of chucks, new in box. We have a nearly lifetime supply of good, but ancient Jacobs chucks. The chicom stuff went in the scrap hopper.
I just bought one of the new (now made in China) Jacobs chucks and am going to compare it to the old vintage USA made chucks and see how they've changed.
My dad has a few Snap-On tool boxes and he told me he'd much rather have the HF tool boxes because you can beat the crap out of them and you're not out much money to replace them.
I love my HF tool cart I’ve had it for years and it’s just so handy. Would buy it again in a heartbeat
@@ShopHumor The only thing the HF tool box is missing is the side attachment having either a smoker or mini fridge option.
Lmao. You're not wrong
Great video, thanks!
Importers refuse to pay for better quality Chinese products, so they get the cheap versions. China does make great products.
Where do you go to source the great quality products? Surely there must be some distributors for them
Yes, they can make good stuff, but unfortunately most of the tools that get imported into the U.S. falls into the "Chinesium" category, with the importer not wanting to risk losing money by importing better quality stuff that will still be classified as junk in most people's minds.
So... the Chinese export inferior products intentionally. How trustworthy.
Would the cleaning and deburring affect accuracy?
I think so because I think if a jaw is contacting a burr, it's going to deflect the jaw some amount, and the inconsistent grease could easily attract grit and grime over time that would cause a similar issue. A few commenters suggested I ought to have done a pre-maintenance accuracy check and I plan to incorporate that into future comparisons.
I know nothing about these things but I enjoy watching
Thank you!
My question is how well these chucks hold up over time. Especially the jaws that actually come in contact with the bits. Are they fully hardened and then precision ground to each other in the chuck, or are they simply assembled from a box of parts?
What do you think?
I think time will tell. I suspect that the mystery chuck that was machined so well is probably going to hold up fine, but the other two I'm more curious about. I plan to (eventually) source a cheap, knock-off China-made ball-bearing chuck and compare it with a new Jacobs Super Chuck (also now made in China I believe), and an old, USA-made Jacobs Super Chuck. I could revisit these chucks then and see how they've held up.
LMAO! SUBSCRIBED!! I've had nothing but great products from HHIP - LOVE THEIR STUFF.
I've heard recently that Amazon has been putting items listed as the same thing in the same warehouse bins. This would mean that even buying from a reputable manufacturer's listing can result in counterfeit items being sent.
That would explain some of the issues people report
Don't count on Amazon for consistent quality products anymore. Its the Wild West now. I gave up purchasing automotive parts from them for the reason you stated above.
I found a pretty good chuck. Colton Ind. No idea where it was made (they're pretty cagey about that).
I'll have to take a look, thanks!
Your video was great. Thanks for keeping RUclips what RUclips should be. Liked and subscribed. Cheers, D.
1:00 "loose and sloppy hole" hmmm is that really a bad thing?
lmao maybe not
Excellent video. VERY USEFUL.
Thank you so much for watching and taking the time to comment!
Such great no nonsense reviews.
Thank you so much!
Good God, I have that same SEARS Tap and Die set. Bought mine in the later 70's .
I've got the same tap set as you, I bought used as a trade in in 1978 off of the snapon truck. Got the metric version at the same time.
It's a really good set, I wish I could track down a metric version from the same vintage!
do u have the runout test before u pulled it apart
I have that exact tap & die set that I bought in the early 70's.
Yep this one is from the early 70s I'm 99% sure. It's a great set and I love that its still complete even with the informational cards.
I too have that exact set~~Things were better then~!!!
You got the wrong one because if amazon thinks two sellers are selling the same exact item they will merge the listings and just send you whichever one is closest. This means even if you go to an official store page on amazon, click their listing and click buy amazon can send you a third party "reseller" (counterfeiters) item instead.
I bought a keyless chuck that was made in Taiwan from a specialist tool shop in NZ. I wanted it for my mill for smaller accurate work. I normally use an ER 40 set up but not so user friendly on stuff below 7 mm. Anyway used chuck and then it went wonky, woddly drill. Took it back. Tough they said. $278 gone. I had to buy another. I took my dead one to bits and jaws are filable! Its the luck of the draw. My expensive rohm is 20 years old, been used pretty hard at time but still my go to chuck on the lathe.
That's so disappointing. $278 is a lot of money to spend just to get a piece of junk :( I'd like to get my hands on a Rohm
I always check runout with the indicator located, 1 inch from the surface and use a dowel pin or gage pin.
I've had some good feedback on refining that testing methodology (including, as you suggest, a dowel or gauge pin), as well as measuring at the top of the pin closest to the jaws, then at the bottom of the pin to see if there's a difference in runout between the two. Thanks for commenting, I really do appreciate the feedback because it will help future videos.
Amazon sells a lot of fake products that look very much like the original. As one reviewer noted, if you want the real thing, you must buy it from a brick and mortar store.
Good video. It would have been good to know the runout on the machine itself by measuring off the Jacob’s taper without the chucks in place. That factors into the total runout as measured in the video.
Thanks for the feedback, I'll try to incorporate it going forward. Much appreciated!
Thanks for the excellent and humorous video. Subbed and liked.
Thank you for watching, for subscribing, and for taking the time to comment! Much appreciated :)
Im not positive on this question, but wouldnt you want to check runout on the end of a bit that was actually doing the drilling? If i understand correctly, the runout would be greater at the far end. Right?
It would be good to check on both the top and the bottom, and also good to use a more purpose built measuring tool than just a drill bit. But for cheap chucks I figured it would get us in the ballpark. I plan to do a follow up video to make sure that these guys corrected the problem and I'll improve my testing methodology then.
I had bought a new Rockwell floor mount drill press. Right out of the box, using a dial indicator, the chuck had .014 of runout. Future investigation showed it was the spindle shaft that was out of wack.
One thing to look out for when shopping Amazon is that people will buy a product and return their old or defective one for a refund. Then, Amazon sells the returned product to a new buyer, having no clue that it's been switched. I don't blame Amazon warehouse employees for not being able to catch this or even care.
Yep. I’ve had that exact thing happen to me. Actually the last one off die I needed was clearly rusty and used when it arrived - there was lots of wear on the teeth of the die and metal shavings stuck to them too. It was the right size, so I’m sure someone ordered a new one and then returned their old one to basically get a new one for free. Annoying.
Why returns ain't checked is like trusting the government to do you no wrong.. The big companies should have this sorted before any refund is given to suspect customers.. just goes to show no one even cares anymore..
Have a couple of HHIP items all are working as good as I can expect...
I have a few now too. Bought a set of wedges and now I have the collet blocks and they're solid too. Gonna try to test their ball bearing chuck whenever it gets corrected.
My father, a mechanical engineer, would have liked this video. That's a compliment. Bravo.
Thank you so much! That's a big compliment :)
My favorite chuck brand is Yukiwa
I'll have to take a look! thanks for the tip
Excellent! When these things go back together do the jaws have to be indexed?
Yes the jaws must go back into the correct location, just like a 3 jaw lathe chuck.
Typically, a Jacobs-style chuck jaw does not need to be indexed prior to reassembly. They’re designed with self-centering jaws that should align correctly when reassembled without specific indexing.
When re-assembling I do always mark mine to put them back where they came from. I’ve seen some chucks with jaws that came numbered from the factory, but most I’ve seen haven’t been marked.
I only buy cheep Chinese chucks on eBay now that jacobs buy their chucks from China and they no longer sell rebuild kits for their new Chinese chucks. I’ve had good luck with the eBay chucks except for one. Runout was wildly horrific for that one chuck. Something like 0.040. Imagine what that looked like at the end of a drill bit. I could draw circles with it. Luckily the seller had no problem with the return. The chuck was a 5/8 keyless with R8 arbor installed. I didn’t bother to verify if the arbor or the chuck was the problem. I just returned it.
That's a crazy runout lol. Glad you had no issue with return
New sub here. I've heard really good things about HHIP. I've never had an issue with any of their tools either. Quality is great, both their products and their support.
Thanks for subscribing and taking the time to leave a comment. Much appreciated! Glad to hear your experience with HHIP and their products has been positive as well.
@ShopHumor I should be thanking you. You made the video. All I did was click a button. 🤣
Well I appreciate your button click lol, your time is valuable too!
I can't speak to tools much, but I have gotten pricey astrophotography equipment from China. It's generally not without issue (a $4000 camera had to be returned and replaced because it didn't work out of the box, and a $9000 mount had to be sent in for warranty in 2 months), but once I got working equipment , (it still works) I had excellent value for the money spent.
You proved my point that Chinese manufacturers have little to no quality control. Everything goes out the door. Cheaper to deal with a return than to pay a quality control team that will reject bad products. It's a numbers game.
2:44 i like you dont remove that scene
Lmao I can't believe I dropped and on camera it so I had to keep it in
Recently on another You Tube sight the host had purchased a "Tool" on Amazon. He noticed the packaging was different from an earlier purchase? He contacted the tool manufacturer who said if you didn't purchase directly from us then the item is probably a Chinese knock off and we don't honor or warrant repair of said item! The host said he had bought most of his tools from Amazon and assumed they would be warranted? I should clarify these tools were the battery operated type.
That’s such a scam!
Tons of fake counterfeit Mitutoyo on that website named after a river in Brazil.
I wish you just asked HHIP to send you the ball bearing chuck they are shipping now. It'd be interesting to see how good it is compared to the others.
At some point in the future I plan to evaluate and compare a cheap China ball bearing chuck with a new Jacobs Super Chuck (the new ones are all made in China now), as well as a vintage USA-made Jacobs Super Chuck.
@@ShopHumor I'm looking forward to it.
After updating my old Taiwan made Jet bench drill press (bearings, new stop system, new spindle lock & a new Cushman BB chuck.) I had no perceptible runout on the spindle taper using a Mitutoyo dial test indicator. When I checked the chuck runout, using a gage pin, I had .003" runout. Disappointing. A much cheaper chuck on my milling machine has less than .001. Not a huge deal since I don't expect a drilled hole to be all that accurate anyhow.
You have a good point about wanting precision even when it isn't necessarily needed. I have a Jet bench grinder that I really really like.
Do you suppose they load it up with grease with the expectation that it will stay lubricated for life as the grease starts to break down? I know it's not unusual for something brand new to feel stiff but will loosen up the more you use it.
Yes, I do. I think they just jam pack it full of thick, heavy grease because most people are never going to disassemble it to do periodic maintenance, and the thick grease coating everything will act as a corrosion preventative. The light coating of grease on mine makes for smoother operation but I'll need to occasionally repeat the process.
that square ER collet, is it the camera lens / laser marking making it look way wonkey?
The laser engraving is poorly done and not parallel with the edge. I did check it and the machining is square and true.
There's a lot of issues going on with Amazon these days. A couple of weeks ago I ordered a pair of Shimano MT200 brake calipers. What showed up instead was a game controller. I'm still waiting for my refund to come through.
That’s disappointing. Those Shimanos are really good. One of my bikes came with the MT420s and they exceeded my expectations!
@ShopHumor Totally agree with you on the sheer greatness of the MT420s. I've upgraded one of my bikes (a folding bike, but not just _any_ folding bike - a super-rare, full-suspension Dahon Jetstream) with a set of MT420 calipers/MT401 levers and they are impressive. I had another set of 420/401 on my other folding bike - a Dahon Hemingway, which is my daily rider and errand runner - that originally came with puny pads the size of a quarter (BB5, and the calipers aren't even real BB5s) that just didn't cut it. I took the 420s off after a while because they were just too powerful for everyday use on a bike as neutral and as mild-mannered (despite the name) as the Hemingway. Now I'm running mechanical Tektro Aries on the Hemingway and I couldn't be happier. I'd ordered the MT200s because I already had a pair of new MT201 levers and new BH90 lines - which would've made for a nice hydraulic upgrade, but Amazon just had to stick a rod in my spokes!
Curse Amazon for that! How do you like the folding bikes?
I run a shop with small machines, low volume production (
I also have been impressed with Shars and HHIP so far! I love my Mitutoyo measuring tools and I also have had good luck with Brown and Sharpe. I don't have any Starrett in my toolbox just yet because of the price, but I've actually been looking at some older ones on eBay just this week that are reasonable...
@@ShopHumor What I noticed about the Starrett is its resilience and its sensitivity. It is made in such a way that it is relatively hard to damage- the indicator body is sprung against the face and can give. It is so sensitive that even though mine has its small ticks at .001", I can count on repeatability to .0005, because there is so little internal friction in the mechanism. The arms clamps and joints, though simple, are much more precise and smooth. I got what I paid for, after 25 years nursing along a Central Tool unit I bought for $60 in 1997.
That's really awesome. It sounds like it's made exceptionally well
What kind of grease do you use?
The spray on grease is WD-40 White Lithium Specialist Grease: amzn.to/3BHiaSH
I think it comes down to know where and when to spend and how accurate do you really need ?
I bed the run out isn’t just in the chuck. ;)
For sure. For drilling, the .001 runout on these was fantastic. If I need a hole to hit a precise tolerance I'll drill it out undersize and then use an end mill, reamer, or boring bar to bring it up to final dimension -- saving wear and tear on my good cutters and using up my cheap ones. And if a hole doesn't need to have a precise tolerance, .001 runout is way more than enough to just drill it to the final dimension.
Great work.
Thank you for watching and for taking the time to comment!
I've got that same old Craftsman tap & die set!
Awesome :) Mine has gotten me many years of use and I couldn't be happier with it. It's a good little set, isn't it?
3 chucks? Looks like you'll have to chuck one LOL
You MUST replace the drill press quill-shaft bearings and I sent my quill-shaft out to a machine shop to be TRUED (It's a Chinese cheap-o, like a Herbar Fraught 13-speed floor stander but another "brand"). NOW it's true to .003" for under $200, $109 for the REAL Jacobs 77 chuck. Honestly, except for Japanese drill bits or Diamond D's, it's nearly impossible to find drill bits true to .003".
Got run out on an old nice benchtop, how to tell if it's the chuck or the spindle ? Got a Jacobs in it now. Electrician yes, machinist no. )
For me I would choose made in Taiwan because I used to live there and I’d rather support manufacturing in a democratic country that doesn’t commit human rights violations.
There's a good chance the manufacture of taiwan chuck is outsourced to a factory in mainland china which also make identical products using same machinery and process to sell for themselves without branding.
It's a quite common practice around many industries. For something simple like tooling components or floor tile it would be practical the same except branding while for more complex product like appliance they would use the same technology to design something under their own brand (and often add some gimmick that would give you mixed feelings).
That could be.
I do personal car/autobody projects on the side. My personal feelings on made in China products, is not that everything is of poor quality; it's rather more that it CAN be. To put a finer point on it, I have little to no guarantee of the quality in the product I'm buying. So it could be great, or it could be terrible. It's the international toss up, where shipping wait times are high.
I am certain there is really high quality stuff being produced in China... their sheer size almost guarantees it. It's just really hard to know what you're getting before you buy it over here, as you noted. And I think a lot of the importers are buying the bottom of the barrel stuff to save a few pennies per unit
Wouldn't give up my Jacobs Superchuck for anything else for that kind of duty.
Bought a Taiwan (Parlec at the time, bought by TMC I think maybe) mill vice on recommendation of many, vs. a Kurt for almost 2X the money.
When it arrived, I took it to work and compared it and a Kurt on the big CMM. Also tried some workholding torture tests, measured stiffness...
The only different was that the Kurt cost almost 2X as much and the Parlec opened to 9" where the Kurt only opened to 6". No brainer!
Some good companies or manufacturing partnerships do pop up in China occasionally. I am fond of Fenix Lights for my EDC and for bicycle
lights. They've been around a minute and they do not lie or exaggerate their lumen output numbers. That might be the only Chinese or partly
Chinese company I can think of that I've had positive experiences with.
That vise sounds awesome!