This is the Worst engine we’ve seen: check out the wear on this!
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- We show you how to fit piston rings properly to pistons, how to fit conrods to pistons and fit pistons down the bores. We make new jigs for the V8 blocks and this engine wear is the worst we have ever seen.
I'm guessing it's not sequential injection so injector channels would be 1/6,2/5,3/4 maybe a faulty injection driver for the 2/5 channel caused a slight bit of bore wash and increased wear, or just randomly leaking injectors. I would definitley be getting the injectors flowed in any case
As an Engineer, the term jig is widely misused. Most people refer to a holding device as a jig. In fact, it is a fixture. Jigs only guide cutting tools like drills. I'm sure there will be lots of comments about this, but look up the facts.
Huh.. good pick up. Never thought of that but it’s good to get these thing accurately described.
That Mercedes block, I would guess its had leaking injectors, causing oil dilution. How was the wear on the small end bushings?
I second that
i have been given a Rover P6 V8, downside is... the starter motor can't be fitted as someone put a grinder to the mount for some reason. bonus is... two heads, two carbs, high compression pistons and a base for a table. the parts sit next to my other heads, carbs as i had a 101fc throw two rods, one left and one to the right of the block. question.... with the 3,5L ones, can the main bearing bolts come loose to give that issue? i found two part undone and one main bearing cap in the sump. Engine got replaced by a ex uk army preserved V8 we had on the shelf.
worst bore wear i have seen was .5 mm. that diesel was a happy slapper. worst of it was, it was sold as a restored engine. you don't get .5mm wear in a month of use
Thanks for the usual great content. Also a constructive observation. I wonder if now that the channel has grown, it’s time to consider a professional video bod to do the filming and editing, like Ricky does at RE Performance, for example? Trying to demonstrate things one-handed isn’t always successful and tends to make the camera jump around a lot, which makes this viewer at least a bit dizzy sometimes! Also, it would give a more professional presentation and presumably free your time up? I wouldn’t let a video guy build an engine, and conversely… Keep up the good work Lee.
I am in the motor trade and always amazed at how wight and measurements differ from the same brand new item batches. I am also amazed at how much material can be removed to bring these into spec
My pal is a British touring car winning engine builder plus a lot lot more and the work he does to parts to get them ready to race is crazy, his engines won while still in the workshop they were that good.
Gonna upset Barums again but his Cosworths engine rebuilds were £15k in 1988 and that’s if nothings exploded 😂
I notice you appear not to check rod alignment, that is small end parallel to the big end. Any reason why not?
Been meaning to ask that too.
It sucks ACL got bought out, and now you can only get bearings for specific more common engines they know people are gonna buy, because I used to get everything from them back when I was messing around with building import motors and the quality was always top notch. This happened when a Company called 'Race Winning Products' bought out a whole bunch of aftermarket performance brands in the states like all the good piston manufacturers like Diamond, Wiseco and JE, cylinder and head companies like Dart and it's pretty much a good chance you will need their products if you are building a high end engine . All they did was bought all the companies under their control and sold of all the assets of the companies, fired of all but the essential employees and just do the least possible to maintain control of all the copyrights. everything is perenially on backorder, it seems like they just produce one big batch of items per year to go out to retailers (I guess they will get you stuff if you are some famous raceteam operator) but it's ruining the aftermarket industry , it's the same with Holley brands, they buy another brand and the stuff all of sudden goes out of stock in retailers with no known ETA for restocks..
When you are working with such fine tolerances, how do you ensure the block/head is perfectly level to the milling/grinding head?
Some shims under the work and a good level to check once clamped
@@thefieldofdreams_ Thanks, it must be a very good, accurate level.
Excessive bore wear like that, you don't normally get it at all on EFI engines but common on older ones with carburettors, Caused by excessive rich mixtures on cold starts. Oil dilution and bore wash. Also with wannabe race cars where the catch can is hooked up wrong disabling the PCV system.
Interesting video as always, Lee can you slow your camera movements down pretty please.🙏
Maybe the black has that much wear because they drove until there was not enough compression to function.
Also, perhaps the engine was speed honed at one time in the life of the car, and nobody ever bothered to measure bore wear. I can't imagine how much oil the Benz would burn through.
Here someone had even worse wear in an AMC/Jeep 258/4.2 engine:
ruclips.net/video/z4n7GraZQN0/видео.html
12:00 I remember seeing a rebuild of a VW VR6 years ago. I was surprised to see two piece oil rings, and said "Who puts diesel piston rings in a gasoline engine?" Living in the USA means I encounter more American and Japanese engines than anything else.
Love the channel, just a sugestion, perhaps share that even a totally flat top piston is directional because of the pin offset.
I really enjoyed this one, and thank you for the recent content about guys mental health. It made me feel so much better to know I'm not alone. Keep up the great work buddy 👍👍👍
Have you had any problems with premature cam and lifter wear ??
After Monday's episode, this was definitely one for the mech heads. 😆 The bit about the piston rings and fitting the pistons reminded me of when I had to bodge a tin can and jubilee clips to use for a motorcycle cylinder block. Worked a treat. Aah, happy days!
I use strips of thin plastic and cable ties as ring compressors on bike engines. Costs virtually nothing and no chance of scratching anything.
I use strips of thin plastic and cable ties as ring compressors on bike engines. Costs virtually nothing and no chance of scratching anything.
Haaa. . . The days huh. I still use copper paper to this day😅
Interesting to see that the Mercedes engine block is slotted between the bores. The last iteration of the Jaguar XK engine, also a straight six, used similar slots to provide a coolant passage between the bores. Could it be a Jaguar engineer had sight of one of these Mercedes engines when Jaguar were trying to eliminate cracking between the bores on the old, linered, blocks ?
A straight 6 with bore wear like that in 2 and 5 sounds like bore washing...
Check the ends of the rings for butting, it maybe the cylinder wear problem👍
Low compression on two and five causing piston wash?
Just a question as you mentioned getting V8 engines in, how is the Cobra 289 machining and build progressing?
Seen more wear than that block...nothing uncommon on old series 11A and series 3 Land Rovers running on cheap petrol....we had a 1/2 Air Portable Land Rover in Belize that was rattling and smoking like an old steam engine.. Took the head off and on the thrust side of each cylinder there was a massive lip that had been worn into the cylinder wall...the vehicle had been to the moon and back in dusty and dirty conditions for years...had no facilities to re build it so we stuck a new engine in..no doubt it still rattling around Belize to this day.....
REME?
@@Airgunfunrich no...Royal Engineer plant mechanic....we were posted to REME workshops in Engineer Regiments to repair C vehicles.....we had composite fitters sections..REME and RE and we worked on anything that needed fixing A B and C vehicles..did plenty of pack changes in my time as well....worked with some great ASMs...
V-8's are normally at 90 degree to the other bank, aren't they, 45 to block bottom face? So, a suitable wedge with clamps. And same for other vee angled faces, innit?
How many hundred thousand miles has the Merc engine done?
Good job please can you help me get some of the tools because I do this work in ghana 🇬🇭
Things under Stones comes to mind
4:10 - why is the right hand end blue?
what ever happened to the Ford v8 you mentioned months ago. I love t5hese torquey little engines and quite often rebuild them for friends and acquaintances.
Another excellent and informative video. As with a few other observers I feel it's probably time that you consider exploring getting someone to do the videoing and editing for you. Possibly a media student who's needing experience? That way it'll free up more of your time and free up both your hands when showing how things are done!
Is it possible that Mercedes block was just a well maintained, but very high mileage car?
Presume you use a snap wire ring on the assembly of the piston. As the chamfer on the gudgeon pin holds the clip in place. A conventional circlip can get pushed out
The excess bore wear on the Mercedes engine could be down to short cold running and not enough high speed running. The first car I bought had been driven short trips most of its life less than a thousand miles a year over 17 years, the bores looked like a pint beer glass. It blew the rings out. A set of cords rings lasted about another 12 thousand.
Think i'd be getting a safer tune on the S54 ecu , what's at the limit on the dyno, yes gov that[s making good numbers, might ok ish for street use, but tracking it is something different .
great content
It would be nice if you showed how the piston ring groove and ring thickness is checked.
covered in previous episode
Feeler gauges and a micrometer are what I use.
I have never got on with the piston clamps (I know its me) but I always get a piston ring pop out and I do it exactly the same as you 🙄
Is there a good technique or special tool to easily install the circlips on the piston . I can get the first one but struggle like hell with a screwdriver to get the other.
I was hoping you wouldn't edit that bit .
Hi Lee, great video, learned a lot,been messing about with engine cars n boats for years, keep up the good work lads, never know might bump into each other one day or soon m8
Cheers buddy, have a nice weekend with your family.
Perhaps a clearer way to describe how the con rod is oriented on a Chevy V8 or any block where two rods share one journal is by looking at the chamfer on the big end.
I loved the smell of the big ends of conrods after you take the old shells out... Used Wynn's glup oil treatment for lubricating gudgeon pins and bearings etc.. It's been years.
Mixed up STP and oil 1:1 as recommended as a build lube for my first engine build back in the 70s and I've still got some left.
What's the clearance between piston and bore that the rings make up ?
:D
Get some kit to balance vee engine cranks and gubbings too - must be a second hand one about somewhere on fire/closing down sale. Must be absolute loads in say USA.
I have no doubt there are lots in the USA. However the US shipping costs, when compared to other countries are disproportionately very high. I'm in Australia and regularly purchase parts from the UK where shipping costs are relatively modest. The same cannot be said for the US - noting that distance is not the driver - as the distance from London-Sydney and New-York-Sydney is similar with LA being 3k miles closer to Sydney. Perhaps a US based viewer that has some knowledge in this area can elaborate.
Thanks guys!!! Another fine video of your work!!! Really appreciate your attention to detail on teardown and reassembly of the motors you work on.
And yet the "cheaper" con rods at the start are very accurate!
Great emphasis placed on oiling the pin and rod bearing, didn’t see any oiling of the rings, piston skirt and bore. Lack of oil will contribute to accelerated wear of these components.
Rings, bore and piston skirt are generally oiled by oil thrown off the rod and main bearings. When an engine is running, there is a mist of oil all through the internal spaces. Oil squirters that spray oil directly at the underside of the piston crown are there for cooling, not lubrication.
Any oil put on the bore would be removed the first time the piston goes down . Any oil on the top ring would be lost on the first combustion cycle.
@@dennisphoenix1Not exactly true. The oil ring function is to remove excess oil.from the cylinder wall. The current practice of plateau honing uses a coarse hone set to get to less than 0.001" from final size. Probably more like 0.0003" from final size. Then a much finer hone set is installed to knock the high points of the initial hone finish. This provides a smooth flat surface for the rings and piston skirts to ride on, while the deeper grooves are left to hold oil for lubrication of the compression rings. Not all of this is burned off. This and the fine atomization of the fuel in sequential injection is the reason modern engines last so long.
@@daledavies2334 I know about cross hatching, but realistically the only wear on the rings or skirt would be before the oil was circulating around the engine on initial cranking after the rebuilding process . I can't imagine there would be that much wear on a few strokes . ??
@@dennisphoenix1Wear on a few strokes, not likely. Totalseal recommends WD 40 on the cylinder walls, rings and skirts on assembly for quick breakin. The rest Is concerning a running engine in use.
This is according to Totalseal and Lake Speed Jr who is a lubrication specialist. Watch the Totalseal videos.
Could the wear in the Merc bores be due to poor air filtration when the car was used in dusty conditions?
Wouldn't the wear be consistent across all 6 cylinders, then? Rather than one or two showing considerably more?
I would suggest the small end
Cheers
318 Chryslers were notorious back in the 60s and 70s for huge cylinder wear. They wore so much that you could not remove the pistons without removing the ridge first or you would break the ring lands and the rings. I don't remember if all of the small blocks had that issue, but the 318 stands out in my memory as always being excessively worn.
An old trick with that style of oil ring: if you flex the scrapers, they will always cup one way, so, you can either put them all on with the "cup" up, which minimizes friction on the down stroke or you can put the cup down, which puts more pressure on the wall on the down stroke. Either way, it allows you to put all the scrapers with the "cup" in the same direction.
How many miles on those engines though. As a mechanic, I saw many of all brands. Early '60's Chev and Fords with 100k miles would be worn right out and burning oil. Same vintage Chrysler engines were good for 150k to 200k miles. The chrome faced rings lasted very well. Chrysler 383 would burn a quart of oil over the recommended service interval until you got to 20k miles. The bores were honed with a fairly coarse stones to allow the rings to wear into the cylinder walls. At about 20k miles they would be "broken in" and the oil consumption would stop until about 150k miles. And yes they would have a ridge that required reaming before piston removal.
@@daledavies2334
These weren't high-mileage engines, even by 60s standards.
As a machinist, I also saw and machined many types of engines, but none were as common or as bad to flare the top .5 inch the way the 318 would. Even the 318 poly engines would put .040 or more wear at the top of the cylinder in under 30k miles.
Chrome rings were common back then, were notoriously hard to seat and being hard, weren't very forgiving to the cylinders if the oil or incoming air was dirty. An old trick was sprinkling a teaspoon of Bon Ami powder down the carb, putting 5,000 miles on the engine instantly and seating the rings. Basically, it's like lapping the rings.
@@lelandlewis7207I only once had to Bon Ami an engine. It was a 3 or 4-53 Detroit Diesel in a crane at a steel recycling foundry. Spent 95% of its time pretty much at idle so it glazed the liners. A tablespoon of Bon Ami fixed it. For the application it should have been run in on a dyno.
Yes the chrome rings were hard on the cylinder walls.
I have experienced similar piston-bore wear in 'past' engines - especially engines that were modified and used inappropriately large carburetors. These engines used carburetors that were 'less than optimal' in metering the required stoichemetric fuel-air mix into the engine at all engine loads and speeds - and as such tended to suffer from a lot of unburnt fuel (some more than others) that resulted in piston bore wash - made much worse if the carburetor had been incorrectly modified with larger main and pump jets - or worse still - fitted with inappropriately large bore, poorly jetted carburetors (hot rodder comment: "a larger carby must be better - right??"). Notably an ICE continues to run adequately with a fuel-air mix that is far below the stoichiometric ideal of 14.7:1 - and in the past I could 'smell' plenty of modified cars that ran like that - i.e. poorly with terrible petrol (US gas) mileage, and needless to say, far less power than what was possible. Today's engines use electronically controllled fuel injection systems that accurately and optimally manages the fuel-air mix at all engine loads and speeds. These systems have all but eliminated the incidence of over fuelling and associated bore wash. I found engines that have covered over 300k km with a negligiable bore ridge - a situation that was impossible to achieve in 1960s and 70s engines.
@@georgebettiol8338I concur.
Detonation was a big issue with the RR Merlin engines during developement.They would burn pistons caps out and damage the mains bearings due to shock created by pre ignition.A merlin didnt like getting too hot .
Please invest in a tripod. All the constant moving makes it hard to watch, especially when playing back at 1.5X.