what a great theory on what the tale might have meant. im native and normally when people read through the lines of oral stories its disrespectful and condescending. your presentation was very respectful
I’m glad that you enjoyed it. Native stories for many years have sometimes been more accurate at identifying small volcanic eruptions that would have otherwise gone unnoticed or in remote parts of the world. Example: Kinrara, Australia and Mount Edgecumbe, Alaska.
@@Leyrann Yep! And that was part of the reason we figured out that Mazama collapsed in onto itself, rather than "blowing its top off" as people liked to say. Something about an evil chieftain living inside the volcano, and he got angry and destroyed the surrounding villages. (The eruption) And then the Great Spirit got angry and caused the mountain to collapse on him. (The Caldera)
An anthropological problem with the "mistaken identity" theory: Long Island and its 1661 eruption are well known to the natives, but the Yomba event is recalled separately, by its own name, as a distinct event from a different location a significant distance from Long Island. I think that if the Yomba eruption had been from the well known Long Island, then the native tales likely would have placed it there, instead of 40+ miles away between two known island landmarks. Therefore I'm more inclined toward possibility 1 or 2, and we need to broaden the search beyond just the obvious structures.
Such changes can still happen despite all of that, but maybe it was a different type of mistaken identity: perhaps it wasn't a proper eruption, but instead a pair of avalanches (one triggering the other), each generating a dust plume. I expect that such a thing would leave it's own distinct signs, but it would also fit the description given on this channel, while leaving little enough atmospheric particulates to not produce an obvious ash layer.
Not a geologist, so this might not be plausible, but I wonder if instead of an eruption, something like a magma chamber collapsed? Wouldn't have generated an ash layer, but might have generated a tsunami, and associated earthquakes might have kicked up dust or something.
@@tovarischkrasnyjeshi Potentially possible. The Nova-Erupta event was a pretty bizarre case. The origin of the magma was from mount Katmai, but the vent was many miles from it's summit in a valley between Katmai and other volcanoes, still since the magma chamber was beneath Katmai it was Katmai that collapsed after the eruption finished, with little to no actual eruption from the summit.
I believe what he was suggesting is that there was a smaller eruption not long before long island’s catastrophic eruption in the islands lake, and the yomba volcano could have been the name of a small island like vent in the northwest of the lake which destroyed itself in that eruption and that’s where the name came from. Any evidence of this eruption would likely have been buried by the subsequent much larger eruption, thus hiding it in the geological record.
Oceania has so many volcanoes, it's crazy to look at on maps and you just see caldera after caldera. When I see ones in the chain that are perfectly pointy, it makes me wonder if/when they will be next.
Very true. Tonga is especially rich! Last year, I counted more than 10 volcanoes with possible calderas, including Submarine Volcano 1, which Geology Hub suggests is the main culprit of the 1808 mystery eruption! It is still possible that other volcanoes may have caused the eruption, There is also the possibility that the 1808 sulfur signal in the ice cores were produced by many eruptions, rather than a single, large eruption. Do note that I am not a geologist, and I only searched a narrow area. Tonga of course includes the now-infamous Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai volcano.
I personally feel the scenario that involves Wisdom Lake is the best fit, especially since evidence points to it being a strong possibility, and the volcano has a history of being destructively explosive. But, on the other hand, there could be another culprit altogether that we haven't discovered or thought of yet. The area is very volcanic, it is possible that other underwater calderas are responsible, even if further away.
Oh, another mystery volcano! I LOVE THIS! That being said, we really should search for unidentified yet destructive volcanoes. If we do not search orstudy them, the lives of many people may be in danger, due to the risks being understudied!
Have you done a video on the formation of the little Grand Canyon in Georgia, USA? That’s always been something that has been cool about that region with the different stories of how it formed
My money is heavily upon theWisdom Lake scenario. The timing is right, the magnitude of the event is right, the propagation errors through oral tradition are entirely reasonable. Everything adds up and is consistent, once we allow for slight loss of fidelity in oral traditions.
I think the answer very much depends on the style of Papuan oral tradition. Is it very rigorous like many Aboriginal Australian oral traditions, or is it more like the Norse and Celtic traditions where stories were embellished to make them more memorable or epic, or is it maybe a case of there being multiple oral histories in the region and different narrative of the same event but from different groups are construed as being different events either by intergroup miscommunications or external misinterpretations. Unfortunately I can't find any information on Papuan oral traditions with a quick search, so this is probably a question for a specialist in local Papuan history or anthropology.
This is a good question one thing which comes to mind is that back when the Australian aboriginal people arrived in greater Australia a.k.a. Sahul which notably includes the mainland of New Guinea. In fact the Australian aboriginal people first landed in New Guinea some 50,000 years ago before spreading into the now submerged continental shelf and the interior highlands we call Australia. From what I can tell looking up information on the native people their languages share linguistic roots with indigenous Australians so I would be willing to bet they likely retain their shared ancestral roots in story telling as well. AN expert likely would be needed to verify this but I suspect the tale is fairly accurate.
I think its a separate vent we haven't found around the area of papa new guinea, there is a underwater caldera quite far from the location of where this video was talking about
It seems to me that since the same story exists among all the somewhat widely dispersed populations within the region, that it may well be a true story passed down over the generations. I think it being within the lake is the most likely reality. If we go outside that island, it would seem to be a legend about something which never really existed since there is no evidence of such an island having existed unless it was the sea mount and there is either some embellishing going on, or we simply haven't been able to locate the run-out. A tidal wave from the lake could easily have washed all the way over the island, and made it seem as if it had sunk beneath the waves. 400 years is not a long time for an event retold in story to last, but it is generally way to short for it to have been a completely made up legend. Those tend to be placed far back in time. The only possibility which I can think of for it being semi-legendary is the possibility that a European vessel stopped by, and someone on that vessel read them Plato's legend of Atlantis, which they then incorporated into their own history. I think this is also a pretty unlikely stretch too though. Because of the distribution of people on different islands who have similar belief systems in all societal natters, it seems most likely that they all descended from the same group who fled the same event, but ended up scattered throughout the region. It would be useful to have DNA profiles of the people from each of those islands to see if they all originate from the same stock. It would also be useful to see if there are any islands or parts of islands which went missing on nautical charts from China and Europe at about that time. Further geological study to locate evidence of a tsunami and a landslide within the lake would also help. This is a very good theory which has been put forth, and I think further research could either cement it, or refute it.
Regretfully, maps from the time were still spotty enough that such a route may lead to false positives or negatives overpowering the value of the maps.
@GeologyHub, do you have any theory on which volcano was responsible for the 1808/9 mystery eruption that left a sulphate spike in the ice cores that was damn near as large as Tambora? Last I read into it, they had the latitude rather well constrained and it was likely a southern hemisphere volcano based on eyewitness accounts of ‘dry fog’ from the Bogota observatory in Colombia (IIRC), but I don’t recall the exact specifics. Curious if you have any thoughts on candidate systems. This has been a rather endearing mystery to me as it was quite clearly a large VEI 6 that escaped direct detection despite only being a couple hundred years ago. Even Tambora was far less reported on than Krakatau, but that was partially due to the extreme intensity that would’ve likely seen most direct observers perish. I still can’t even believe a geological nuke as large as Tambora occurred so recently. I struggle to comprehend what the eruption plume and pyroclastic flows would’ve looked like at that extreme level of erupted volume.
Wild hypothesis: a smaller, ashy eruption was ongoing, perhaps at what became Henkow Reef, while an unrelated tsunami from a more distant source rolled in, also mostly destroying the nascent volcanic island.
Isn't there another volcano in that region where only the calderas rim it's visible because the rest of the island is gone with a huge land slide? I think you covered it already, but I forgot what the name was. This one also triggered a huge tsunami.
@@timothyjones7067 yeah, it's been the Ritter island, thanks! Yes, I did not mean to suggest the Ritter island for this mysterious eruption. I was just wondering about the name of it
A game of telephone always has a starting point and aboriginal oral histories must have as well. An area like that has a long history of volcanic activity and my guess is that over time, the stories merged into 1.
Perception and scale were probably skewed over time. Long Island fits the bill. And with only few survivors left to tell the tale and no monitoring who really knows what happened. The science of geology and what we know now seems good.
How good is the bathymetry data from the reef? Could the hummocky terrain simply not overcome very low resolution data? I think the indigenous stories are likely correct, but the area hasn't been studied closely enough.
In New Zealand some geologists are working with Maori to use Taniwha (water spirit) legends to identify previously unknown hazards such as flood prone locations. It might be useful to if "Yumba" has any translation that might help.
Isn't it likely the weird caldara looking feature around 200km north east of its reported location? Alternatively its location is misunderstood and it could be Ritter island, that is clearly a caldara remenant and both tsunami paths would reach nearly all the locations/settlements you showed in the video.
At 1:07 in the North East looks like a caldera that had it's rim collapse to the south west. Could that be the mystery volcano? At what depth is that area?
So many island villages with the same story about a tsunami after a volcano exploded and the island also disappeared into an underwater caldera. It is undoubtedly true but where? My guess it was in the middle of the Bismarck Sea northeast of where you have speculated it was.
Considering that there is an obvious caldera in the right hand corner of the screen at 1:07 along with what kind of looks like a circular depression north-northeast of Bagabag in the same frame (it is a little bit from the three underwater seamounts close to Kar Kar Island), I wonder if either of those two could have been it.
If it was just one group of people able to flee. Could it also be, that they come actually from much further away and didn't realize? For example, that they unnoticed have ridden the tsunami wave for hundreds of kilometers. This theory of course would only be possible it was just a single ship that escaped.
I can’t say I think it’s a tall tale, I just don’t see the point when this supposed volcano in chain known for far more destructive eruptions. If you were to make up a legend surely you’d glorify it as one of the most destructive on record on par with long islands VEI 7
My cousins lived in Mays Landing NJ, their property was on a bank of the Little Egg Harbor River. Jersey Devil is kinda like Santa. Us children had our doubts.
I Think That This Tale Of A Volcano Is An Urban Legand About A Volcano, Like Similar To Something Of A Paranormal Urban Legand Like; Slenderman, Ghosts, And Or Superstition Like; Never Put Up An Umberella In Doors, Never Put New Shoes On The Table, Never Walk Under A Ladder, And Lastly That It Is Bad Luck If A Black Cat Crosses Your Path.
I know you didn’t ask for video topics on this one, but I’m really interested to know what the largest VEI index eruption ever caught on camera/video was? Also what can be learned about plinian eruptions from this? Looking for good footage of that kind of eruption has proved very difficult and I want a good impression of what the moment of eruption is like.
Yeah, Pinatubo’s 1991 eruption is easily the biggest eruption caught on camera. Unfortunately, the area was struck by a hurricane just as the eruption reached its peak intensity. As a result we only have limited footage of the biggest eruption column and no footage of the formation of the present-day caldera. The photo’s normally associated with that eruption were actually taken a few days before the peak of the eruption, though they are still spectacular in their own right.
I think I should clarify my question, I'm asking for the moment of eruption. I did some more searching and the biggest I can find are a 2019 eruption of Mount Stromboli and a 2014 eruption of Tavurvur. Pinatubo and other large eruptions are only stills or videos taken after the plume has mostly formed.
@@Porcuponic technically the sattelite feed of Hunga Tonga erupting would probably be the largest. As for actual camera footage, I’m not sure. You could try looking up Merapi, Krakatoa and Mayon, which are volcanoes that frequently erupt, including non-minor eruptions and which are also heavily monitored. There are also the three famous damaged photographs of the moment Mount St. Helens erupted and collapsed.
An eruption of that size would leave some clues on other the surrounding area. Is there an ash layer? Was the island vaporized hence no hummock field. Lots of questions need answered
Have there been no studies of the sedimentary layers and tree rings in that region of PNG? Surely Tsunami deposits and events would be found if they hit the main coast.
If I think about it.. it may be possibility 3 due to the long time span, and some residents at that time may be unaware of their place of residence between the distinction of an Main-Land or an Large Volcanic Island. Since there are cases that like the Taal Volcano sits in an Lake within and Island within and lake within an island.
The polynesians have vast historical experience with volcanic islands. I would say there was a very large eruption to support the story, but obviously the details are vague. I think evidence will eventually be found. The volcano may have well been a lot further from existing land, given the polynesians mastery of ocean voyages.
How destructive was Long Island's VEI-7 eruption? And how often does it produce eruptions of medium (VEI-4 or VEI-5) to large (VEI-6) size? New Guinea has been inhabited for many tens of thousands of years, and it's inhabited by Melanesians who are certainly descended from the original settlers. I know that it is unusual if not unheard of for oral tales to last so long. The destruction of Mount Mazama and the formation of Crater Lake was recorded in oral legend and it is considered an extreme case of that kind of thing, yet it is only a third of the age of Long Island's VEI-7 event. Nevertheless if there are "reminders" and similar events such tales could possibly survive for longer, being renewed each time a similar event happens, but still retaining some of the more extreme elements of the original. To that end what are the odds that the comparatively smaller eruptions of Long Island, similarly destructive to the island but nothing compared to the Ice Age event, all successively merged together over time with a much older, yet periodically "renewed" legend of an entire island being obliterated?
we are talking of papousie...a country quite in civil war with indonesia for sovernity, and who fight also the modernity, its very tribal overthere. in these condition, theres certainly not enough scientifc research in these region, few sample, few accurate marine map. few text. because we know ocean floor arent mapped, and that the few company who have accurate map and geologic marine map dont share them...because they dont want otehr company mine or offshore with their map^^ so in these poor country, its quite sure we dont have knowledge of what is on bottom, and theres certainly old caldera and active volcanoe waiting to be discovered.. if you look to the France one of the wealthiest country, we only discover in may 2019 the submarine volcanoe "fani maore" near mayotte at 3.5-0.8km below surface, only because he produced at this period a strong VEI 4-5 with earthquake, and we have research ship and satellite and we just dont care of submarine map until he woke up the region...and he could produce tsunami since theres 10km3 of magma chamber under him..., papouasie have nothing she will discover the problem when the earthquake will strike and tremor, at least earthquake technology is avaible for every country, and even poor country can have deduction of what's happening with a computer and a map. i dont know exactly when accurate marine map will be avaible for everybody, we have hundred of satellite, theres company preparing swarm of swmiing drone, so technically, marine geology can take off as soon a smass data are colelcted and share.
It is extremely unlikely the VoC has any information about this area, as Papua-New Guinea is beyond the area in which they operated. Very few Europeans visited Papua-New Guinea in the 17th and 18th century.
Most volcanic explosion are unexpected even if there are smoke and earth quakes. Just how does finding the volcano keep a tsunami from happening. I expect if it reactivates the earth quakes and smoke will give it away before it blows.
Most volcanic eruptions give some indications of their possibility far before they occur, hence why we can give volcano warnings despite having no volcano forecasts. If a volcano is known to exist, then it can be added to the local government's list of "places to visit once a year".
I note that you didn't solicit suggestions for future topics at the and of this video, however, in the hope that you still do want suggestions, how about this; In the latest video from a channel called "Action Adventure twins" called "Worlds Brightest Flashlight Inside The Biggest Cave We Have Ever Seen", they explore a fascinating cave system, and I wonder if you might comment?
I find from experience that comparing oral history to folk tales in cultures with writing systems usually isn't fair - Where writing is common and nearly everyone is well-read, the things that survive as folk tales tend to exist in the margins - things that can't be verifiable enough to properly write down/have no better documentation. On the other hand, when your group hardly writes and mainly tells stories to replace that niche, they put greater value on the accuracy of the story. Consider the klamath tribe of oregon having an oral history about the eruption that created crater lake - 7,000 years ago.
I tend to believe indigenous people's stories, although details may differ in specifics. Your explanation seems most likely, as the first two had less evidence for proof, and I seriously doubt the natives simply made the whole thing up.
The study of sub-sea volcanology & oceanic processes is far too young to dismiss the accuracy of oral traditions. There's a big difference between stories passed down the generations in cultures with strong oral traditions (especially in isolated areas like PNG) and European/Western cultures... when your survival is dependent on accurately locating hazards, you better be giving your descendants the right directions! Many equatorial cultures have strong cardinal directions built into their language, so I'd want to understand more about their oral traditions before I'd try to make their stories fit our current scientific knowledge... the convenient answer is not necessarily the right one!
الله ينفجر بركان الحجر الأصفر ويفجرنا جميعاً الحمد الله لننجو من الأرض.الله يجلب يوم القيامة فتبو على اللهالله ينفجر بركان الحجر الأصفر ويفجرنا جميعاً الحمد الله لننجو من الأرض.الله يجلب يوم القيامة فتبو على اللهالله ينفجر بركان الحجر الأصفر ويفجرنا جميعاً الحمد الله لننجو من الأرض.الله يجلب يوم القيامة فتبو على اللهالله ينفجر بركان الحجر الأصفر ويفجرنا جميعاً الحمد الله لننجو من الأرض.الله يجلب يوم القيامة فتبو على اللهالله ينفجر بركان الحجر الأصفر ويفجرنا جميعاً الحمد الله لننجو من الأرض.الله يجلب يوم القيامة فتبو على اللهالله ينفجر بركان الحجر الأصفر ويفجرنا جميعاً الحمد الله لننجو من الأرض.
I like that you’re exploring the cross between storytelling and Geology. Super interesting and far reaching topic
True!
what a great theory on what the tale might have meant. im native and normally when people read through the lines of oral stories its disrespectful and condescending. your presentation was very respectful
I’m glad that you enjoyed it. Native stories for many years have sometimes been more accurate at identifying small volcanic eruptions that would have otherwise gone unnoticed or in remote parts of the world. Example: Kinrara, Australia and Mount Edgecumbe, Alaska.
@@GeologyHub I remember hearing that some native Americans still have surviving tales of Mt Mazama's caldera-forming eruption some 8000 years ago!
@@Leyrann Yep! And that was part of the reason we figured out that Mazama collapsed in onto itself, rather than "blowing its top off" as people liked to say. Something about an evil chieftain living inside the volcano, and he got angry and destroyed the surrounding villages. (The eruption) And then the Great Spirit got angry and caused the mountain to collapse on him. (The Caldera)
The Jersey Devil is not only real. But I briefly dated her in highschool.
Damn, that must have been explosive
Was she pretty?🙂
Lol😂
😂😂😂
There's generations of she-devils in Jersey. Also devils. Almost all of 'em have odd accents.
An anthropological problem with the "mistaken identity" theory: Long Island and its 1661 eruption are well known to the natives, but the Yomba event is recalled separately, by its own name, as a distinct event from a different location a significant distance from Long Island. I think that if the Yomba eruption had been from the well known Long Island, then the native tales likely would have placed it there, instead of 40+ miles away between two known island landmarks. Therefore I'm more inclined toward possibility 1 or 2, and we need to broaden the search beyond just the obvious structures.
Such changes can still happen despite all of that, but maybe it was a different type of mistaken identity: perhaps it wasn't a proper eruption, but instead a pair of avalanches (one triggering the other), each generating a dust plume. I expect that such a thing would leave it's own distinct signs, but it would also fit the description given on this channel, while leaving little enough atmospheric particulates to not produce an obvious ash layer.
Not a geologist, so this might not be plausible, but I wonder if instead of an eruption, something like a magma chamber collapsed? Wouldn't have generated an ash layer, but might have generated a tsunami, and associated earthquakes might have kicked up dust or something.
@@tovarischkrasnyjeshi Potentially possible. The Nova-Erupta event was a pretty bizarre case. The origin of the magma was from mount Katmai, but the vent was many miles from it's summit in a valley between Katmai and other volcanoes, still since the magma chamber was beneath Katmai it was Katmai that collapsed after the eruption finished, with little to no actual eruption from the summit.
I believe what he was suggesting is that there was a smaller eruption not long before long island’s catastrophic eruption in the islands lake, and the yomba volcano could have been the name of a small island like vent in the northwest of the lake which destroyed itself in that eruption and that’s where the name came from. Any evidence of this eruption would likely have been buried by the subsequent much larger eruption, thus hiding it in the geological record.
The explanation you give for it being *Long Island* is the most plausible scenario.
Oceania has so many volcanoes, it's crazy to look at on maps and you just see caldera after caldera. When I see ones in the chain that are perfectly pointy, it makes me wonder if/when they will be next.
Very true. Tonga is especially rich! Last year, I counted more than 10 volcanoes with possible calderas, including Submarine Volcano 1, which Geology Hub suggests is the main culprit of the 1808 mystery eruption! It is still possible that other volcanoes may have caused the eruption, There is also the possibility that the 1808 sulfur signal in the ice cores were produced by many eruptions, rather than a single, large eruption.
Do note that I am not a geologist, and I only searched a narrow area. Tonga of course includes the now-infamous Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai volcano.
I personally feel the scenario that involves Wisdom Lake is the best fit, especially since evidence points to it being a strong possibility, and the volcano has a history of being destructively explosive. But, on the other hand, there could be another culprit altogether that we haven't discovered or thought of yet. The area is very volcanic, it is possible that other underwater calderas are responsible, even if further away.
Oh, another mystery volcano! I LOVE THIS! That being said, we really should search for unidentified yet destructive volcanoes. If we do not search orstudy them, the lives of many people may be in danger, due to the risks being understudied!
You must be one of the best RUclipsrs ever 😁. I have rarely seen someone so conscious of knowledge and correctness. Good luck for the future 👍
I believe your third hypothesis is the case. The Long Island volcano is the Yamba volcano.
Wait. Are you saying that the Jersey Devil is only a myth?
He's implying that, but we know he's just ignorant of that, and many other topics.
@@PBGetson huh?
@@PBGetson 😂 Good, 'cause Bubba an' I seen once. 😉
It is. Many, actually all, cryptids are myths and lies by idiots with nothing better to do.
Great episode. More like this one? Please.
A fifth possibility… it was Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha’apai all along 😉
Have you done a video on the formation of the little Grand Canyon in Georgia, USA? That’s always been something that has been cool about that region with the different stories of how it formed
I believe he has. or someone has.
My money is heavily upon theWisdom Lake scenario. The timing is right, the magnitude of the event is right, the propagation errors through oral tradition are entirely reasonable. Everything adds up and is consistent, once we allow for slight loss of fidelity in oral traditions.
I think the answer very much depends on the style of Papuan oral tradition. Is it very rigorous like many Aboriginal Australian oral traditions, or is it more like the Norse and Celtic traditions where stories were embellished to make them more memorable or epic, or is it maybe a case of there being multiple oral histories in the region and different narrative of the same event but from different groups are construed as being different events either by intergroup miscommunications or external misinterpretations. Unfortunately I can't find any information on Papuan oral traditions with a quick search, so this is probably a question for a specialist in local Papuan history or anthropology.
This is a good question one thing which comes to mind is that back when the Australian aboriginal people arrived in greater Australia a.k.a. Sahul which notably includes the mainland of New Guinea. In fact the Australian aboriginal people first landed in New Guinea some 50,000 years ago before spreading into the now submerged continental shelf and the interior highlands we call Australia.
From what I can tell looking up information on the native people their languages share linguistic roots with indigenous Australians so I would be willing to bet they likely retain their shared ancestral roots in story telling as well. AN expert likely would be needed to verify this but I suspect the tale is fairly accurate.
Option 3: Long Island.
I think its a separate vent we haven't found around the area of papa new guinea, there is a underwater caldera quite far from the location of where this video was talking about
Have you tried looking for it where you last saw it? That’s how I find my keys when they go missing.
Lol
It seems to me that since the same story exists among all the somewhat widely dispersed populations within the region, that it may well be a true story passed down over the generations. I think it being within the lake is the most likely reality. If we go outside that island, it would seem to be a legend about something which never really existed since there is no evidence of such an island having existed unless it was the sea mount and there is either some embellishing going on, or we simply haven't been able to locate the run-out. A tidal wave from the lake could easily have washed all the way over the island, and made it seem as if it had sunk beneath the waves. 400 years is not a long time for an event retold in story to last, but it is generally way to short for it to have been a completely made up legend. Those tend to be placed far back in time. The only possibility which I can think of for it being semi-legendary is the possibility that a European vessel stopped by, and someone on that vessel read them Plato's legend of Atlantis, which they then incorporated into their own history. I think this is also a pretty unlikely stretch too though. Because of the distribution of people on different islands who have similar belief systems in all societal natters, it seems most likely that they all descended from the same group who fled the same event, but ended up scattered throughout the region. It would be useful to have DNA profiles of the people from each of those islands to see if they all originate from the same stock. It would also be useful to see if there are any islands or parts of islands which went missing on nautical charts from China and Europe at about that time. Further geological study to locate evidence of a tsunami and a landslide within the lake would also help.
This is a very good theory which has been put forth, and I think further research could either cement it, or refute it.
Regretfully, maps from the time were still spotty enough that such a route may lead to false positives or negatives overpowering the value of the maps.
I think it is important to look toward folklore in many cases of prehistory.
True.
Why do people use prehistory when it's just history.. Although I do agree with you
@GeologyHub, do you have any theory on which volcano was responsible for the 1808/9 mystery eruption that left a sulphate spike in the ice cores that was damn near as large as Tambora? Last I read into it, they had the latitude rather well constrained and it was likely a southern hemisphere volcano based on eyewitness accounts of ‘dry fog’ from the Bogota observatory in Colombia (IIRC), but I don’t recall the exact specifics. Curious if you have any thoughts on candidate systems.
This has been a rather endearing mystery to me as it was quite clearly a large VEI 6 that escaped direct detection despite only being a couple hundred years ago. Even Tambora was far less reported on than Krakatau, but that was partially due to the extreme intensity that would’ve likely seen most direct observers perish.
I still can’t even believe a geological nuke as large as Tambora occurred so recently. I struggle to comprehend what the eruption plume and pyroclastic flows would’ve looked like at that extreme level of erupted volume.
I think it definitely happened in one way or another if so many different villages told the tale
Wild hypothesis: a smaller, ashy eruption was ongoing, perhaps at what became Henkow Reef, while an unrelated tsunami from a more distant source rolled in, also mostly destroying the nascent volcanic island.
Isn't there another volcano in that region where only the calderas rim it's visible because the rest of the island is gone with a huge land slide? I think you covered it already, but I forgot what the name was. This one also triggered a huge tsunami.
You're not thinking of Krakatoa are you, if so that's not PNG
@El3andro, you are referring to Ritter Island, that eruption and landslide occurred in 1888, much too late for the eruption in question.
@@timothyjones7067 yeah, it's been the Ritter island, thanks! Yes, I did not mean to suggest the Ritter island for this mysterious eruption. I was just wondering about the name of it
A game of telephone always has a starting point and aboriginal oral histories must have as well. An area like that has a long history of volcanic activity and my guess is that over time, the stories merged into 1.
from 4:06 to 4:09 a strange women talking (but muted) appears erroneously - it looks like the late Diana Rigg funnily enough!
Hankow Reef could be the site of Yomba Volcano or Wisdom Lake is what remain of destroyed and collapsed Yomba Volcano.
Perception and scale were probably skewed over time. Long Island fits the bill. And with only few survivors left to tell the tale and no monitoring who really knows what happened. The science of geology and what we know now seems good.
I'll send this to Doc 😉 thnx
How good is the bathymetry data from the reef? Could the hummocky terrain simply not overcome very low resolution data? I think the indigenous stories are likely correct, but the area hasn't been studied closely enough.
In New Zealand some geologists are working with Maori to use Taniwha (water spirit) legends to identify previously unknown hazards such as flood prone locations. It might be useful to if "Yumba" has any translation that might help.
Isn't it likely the weird caldara looking feature around 200km north east of its reported location? Alternatively its location is misunderstood and it could be Ritter island, that is clearly a caldara remenant and both tsunami paths would reach nearly all the locations/settlements you showed in the video.
At 1:07 in the North East looks like a caldera that had it's rim collapse to the south west. Could that be the mystery volcano? At what depth is that area?
So many island villages with the same story about a tsunami after a volcano exploded and the island also disappeared
into an underwater caldera. It is undoubtedly true but where? My guess it was in the middle of the Bismarck Sea northeast
of where you have speculated it was.
I have a theory
It might be in bagabag island cause I see volcanic ash..
Considering that there is an obvious caldera in the right hand corner of the screen at 1:07 along with what kind of looks like a circular depression north-northeast of Bagabag in the same frame (it is a little bit from the three underwater seamounts close to Kar Kar Island), I wonder if either of those two could have been it.
If it was just one group of people able to flee. Could it also be, that they come actually from much further away and didn't realize?
For example, that they unnoticed have ridden the tsunami wave for hundreds of kilometers.
This theory of course would only be possible it was just a single ship that escaped.
I can’t say I think it’s a tall tale, I just don’t see the point when this supposed volcano in chain known for far more destructive eruptions. If you were to make up a legend surely you’d glorify it as one of the most destructive on record on par with long islands VEI 7
"And it destroyed the island the escapees had lived on" is far more significant than a VEI 7 that happens where you don't hear about it.
thank you thought about the first and third... dk givin uns volcanic fun is cool ^^
The Jersey Devil can be tossed to the side fairly safely. However, a volcano that destroy an island is relatively commonplace and so might be true.
My cousins lived in Mays Landing NJ, their property was on a bank of the Little Egg Harbor River. Jersey Devil is kinda like Santa. Us children had our doubts.
I like the island with a lake wrapped with land 360 degrees around it
Thanks.
Have volcanoes erupted in unknown or unexpected places?(missing volcano)
I Think That This Tale Of A Volcano Is An Urban Legand About A Volcano, Like Similar To Something Of A Paranormal Urban Legand Like; Slenderman, Ghosts, And Or Superstition Like; Never Put Up An Umberella In Doors, Never Put New Shoes On The Table, Never Walk Under A Ladder, And Lastly That It Is Bad Luck If A Black Cat Crosses Your Path.
I know you didn’t ask for video topics on this one, but I’m really interested to know what the largest VEI index eruption ever caught on camera/video was? Also what can be learned about plinian eruptions from this?
Looking for good footage of that kind of eruption has proved very difficult and I want a good impression of what the moment of eruption is like.
I think it was a 7 Tambora, biggest in growth was honga tonga happai vie 6
Modern times: Tambora VEI 7
Caught on camera: Pinatubo, VEI 6
Yeah, Pinatubo’s 1991 eruption is easily the biggest eruption caught on camera. Unfortunately, the area was struck by a hurricane just as the eruption reached its peak intensity. As a result we only have limited footage of the biggest eruption column and no footage of the formation of the present-day caldera. The photo’s normally associated with that eruption were actually taken a few days before the peak of the eruption, though they are still spectacular in their own right.
I think I should clarify my question, I'm asking for the moment of eruption. I did some more searching and the biggest I can find are a 2019 eruption of Mount Stromboli and a 2014 eruption of Tavurvur. Pinatubo and other large eruptions are only stills or videos taken after the plume has mostly formed.
@@Porcuponic technically the sattelite feed of Hunga Tonga erupting would probably be the largest. As for actual camera footage, I’m not sure. You could try looking up Merapi, Krakatoa and Mayon, which are volcanoes that frequently erupt, including non-minor eruptions and which are also heavily monitored.
There are also the three famous damaged photographs of the moment Mount St. Helens erupted and collapsed.
It looks like there might be a fairly big volcanic hole around -4.11, 148.21.
An eruption of that size would leave some clues on other the surrounding area. Is there an ash layer? Was the island vaporized hence no hummock field. Lots of questions need answered
Have there been no studies of the sedimentary layers and tree rings in that region of PNG? Surely Tsunami deposits and events would be found if they hit the main coast.
If I think about it.. it may be possibility 3 due to the long time span, and some residents at that time may be unaware of their place of residence between the distinction of an Main-Land or an Large Volcanic Island. Since there are cases that like the Taal Volcano sits in an Lake within and Island within and lake within an island.
Long Island sounds likely as the volcano in question
The polynesians have vast historical experience with volcanic islands. I would say there was a very large eruption to support the story, but obviously the details are vague. I think evidence will eventually be found. The volcano may have well been a lot further from existing land, given the polynesians mastery of ocean voyages.
I think the one that the natives tell is the right one. They have been passing these stories down for years and they are usually right.
The question about this whole thing that bugs me the most is ... who is that nice lady at 4:03? Is that Tim's mom?
Who was the lady at 4:04?
How destructive was Long Island's VEI-7 eruption? And how often does it produce eruptions of medium (VEI-4 or VEI-5) to large (VEI-6) size? New Guinea has been inhabited for many tens of thousands of years, and it's inhabited by Melanesians who are certainly descended from the original settlers. I know that it is unusual if not unheard of for oral tales to last so long. The destruction of Mount Mazama and the formation of Crater Lake was recorded in oral legend and it is considered an extreme case of that kind of thing, yet it is only a third of the age of Long Island's VEI-7 event. Nevertheless if there are "reminders" and similar events such tales could possibly survive for longer, being renewed each time a similar event happens, but still retaining some of the more extreme elements of the original. To that end what are the odds that the comparatively smaller eruptions of Long Island, similarly destructive to the island but nothing compared to the Ice Age event, all successively merged together over time with a much older, yet periodically "renewed" legend of an entire island being obliterated?
Aliens I vote aliens stole the island....
Okay serious, theory 3 is the most plausible.
Long Island = Yomba
Though a stretch, possibility 5 Yombo volcano is now extinct.
Unless the volcanic structure was confirmed to be fully destroyed, it would be counted as active due to how recently it erupted.
I think its a volcano near the one with a lake. Just right before it unless thats homocky terrain if not its the volcano with a lake.
After 1st 10sec of this video I assumed either A. LONG ISLAND
B. Manam I rhink
Another possibility for mistaken identity is a meteorite strike.
we are talking of papousie...a country quite in civil war with indonesia for sovernity, and who fight also the modernity, its very tribal overthere.
in these condition, theres certainly not enough scientifc research in these region, few sample, few accurate marine map. few text.
because we know ocean floor arent mapped, and that the few company who have accurate map and geologic marine map dont share them...because they dont want otehr company mine or offshore with their map^^
so in these poor country, its quite sure we dont have knowledge of what is on bottom, and theres certainly old caldera and active volcanoe waiting to be discovered..
if you look to the France one of the wealthiest country, we only discover in may 2019 the submarine volcanoe "fani maore" near mayotte at 3.5-0.8km below surface, only because he produced at this period a strong VEI 4-5 with earthquake, and we have research ship and satellite and we just dont care of submarine map until he woke up the region...and he could produce tsunami since theres 10km3 of magma chamber under him..., papouasie have nothing she will discover the problem when the earthquake will strike and tremor, at least earthquake technology is avaible for every country, and even poor country can have deduction of what's happening with a computer and a map.
i dont know exactly when accurate marine map will be avaible for everybody, we have hundred of satellite, theres company preparing swarm of swmiing drone, so technically, marine geology can take off as soon a smass data are colelcted and share.
Or you check the charts of the Dutch who where there around that time VoC archives you should check.
It is extremely unlikely the VoC has any information about this area, as Papua-New Guinea is beyond the area in which they operated. Very few Europeans visited Papua-New Guinea in the 17th and 18th century.
I think n°3 is right. It's a identity mistake
Agreed. Definitely, No. 3.
Most volcanic explosion are unexpected even if there are smoke and earth quakes. Just how does finding the volcano keep a tsunami from happening. I expect if it reactivates the earth quakes and smoke will give it away before it blows.
Most volcanic eruptions give some indications of their possibility far before they occur, hence why we can give volcano warnings despite having no volcano forecasts. If a volcano is known to exist, then it can be added to the local government's list of "places to visit once a year".
I note that you didn't solicit suggestions for future topics at the and of this video, however, in the hope that you still do want suggestions, how about this; In the latest video from a channel called "Action Adventure twins" called "Worlds Brightest Flashlight Inside The Biggest Cave We Have Ever Seen", they explore a fascinating cave system, and I wonder if you might comment?
I think your theary is the most plausible.
I think the volcano did exist but the facts got muddled over time
New Jersey isn't real? damn
h.ow good are the bathymetry and sediment sampling a round these islands?
Well legends have a very strong tendency to have a basis in the truth. So I would be willing to bet that this story is for real, and not a mere fable.
I find from experience that comparing oral history to folk tales in cultures with writing systems usually isn't fair - Where writing is common and nearly everyone is well-read, the things that survive as folk tales tend to exist in the margins - things that can't be verifiable enough to properly write down/have no better documentation. On the other hand, when your group hardly writes and mainly tells stories to replace that niche, they put greater value on the accuracy of the story. Consider the klamath tribe of oregon having an oral history about the eruption that created crater lake - 7,000 years ago.
I'll wait for more science to choose a definitive answer. But, it probably is mistaken identity.
I tend to believe indigenous people's stories, although details may differ in specifics. Your explanation seems most likely, as the first two had less evidence for proof, and I seriously doubt the natives simply made the whole thing up.
Door number 3
asteroid !!!
I have a mountain of debt, but no volcano. Honest.
Jey Uso made off with it!!
#3
The study of sub-sea volcanology & oceanic processes is far too young to dismiss the accuracy of oral traditions. There's a big difference between stories passed down the generations in cultures with strong oral traditions (especially in isolated areas like PNG) and European/Western cultures... when your survival is dependent on accurately locating hazards, you better be giving your descendants the right directions! Many equatorial cultures have strong cardinal directions built into their language, so I'd want to understand more about their oral traditions before I'd try to make their stories fit our current scientific knowledge... the convenient answer is not necessarily the right one!
Switzerland
After a hard night of drinking my toilet experienced a volcanic eruption.
الله ينفجر بركان الحجر الأصفر ويفجرنا جميعاً الحمد الله لننجو من الأرض.الله يجلب يوم القيامة فتبو على اللهالله ينفجر بركان الحجر الأصفر ويفجرنا جميعاً الحمد الله لننجو من الأرض.الله يجلب يوم القيامة فتبو على اللهالله ينفجر بركان الحجر الأصفر ويفجرنا جميعاً الحمد الله لننجو من الأرض.الله يجلب يوم القيامة فتبو على اللهالله ينفجر بركان الحجر الأصفر ويفجرنا جميعاً الحمد الله لننجو من الأرض.الله يجلب يوم القيامة فتبو على اللهالله ينفجر بركان الحجر الأصفر ويفجرنا جميعاً الحمد الله لننجو من الأرض.الله يجلب يوم القيامة فتبو على اللهالله ينفجر بركان الحجر الأصفر ويفجرنا جميعاً الحمد الله لننجو من الأرض.
Palms 63:17
"He came unto them, telling many 'I command thee, do not shart in Yellowrstine, for it will bring the end'"
#AmericaNews
#3
Switzerland