I will never be in a position to do what you are doing, but it sure is entertaining to watch you work and learn at the same time the work you are doing. Never get frustrated , keep learning and we will keep watching..
Completely agree but, if there's a reasonably simple, inexpensive way of installing an electric starter to the big diesel, it could be a very useful option. Even having it as a back-up could be worthwhile. After all, it's not like you're going to 𝒑𝒖𝒔𝒉-𝒔𝒕𝒂𝒓𝒕 Old Red.😁
@@2H80vids OMG, have to laugh at that. I remember my dad having one of those old girls. Almost identical to that one. I remember when the pony motor went out. Guess how he started it? He gave it a push with a track hoe. At the time the machine was only about 10 years old. And yes, I am old lol.
You’ve earned yourself the title of technician, you actually repaired the problem and diagnosed it correctly and didn’t just shotgun parts for a fix. Well done! I would’ve been annoyed having to pull the pony motor but I would’ve done it anyways lol great job
Hi .. from locked down England ! Many years ago I drove an old cat for a living ... it’s been an absolute pleasure to watch you work ... I salute you and all our friends across the water ..l can’t wait to see her going again. Many thanks Matt
I'm still loving these, been here since the first few videos, I absolutely love your calm and humble attitude and ability just to get things done. It's so refreshing to see videos like this where you're not afraid just to say "I don't know"! So few people are willing to show that humility and share their learning experience, it's a wonderful treat.
That blew me away when you said, "I never saw a pony motor!" They rarely go bad, and their function is not only to start but more importantly to preheat the block and manifold of the machine. A pony will always start even well below zero temperatures provided you take care of your machine. I ran an old CAT in Vermont at a ski area. You start the pony, it would blat a very different sound. You knew when you were ready to throw the compression lever when the exhaust manifold was warm to touch. So start the pony, engage the gear allow the diesel to turn over with no compression and when the manifold was warm, throw the compression lever and you had a belch of black exhaust along with life! What a wonderful life. I personally wouldn't do the electric start. A diesel with a pony will out-live one with a starter by decades. Thanks for the wonderful posts.
I'm no expert (but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently), but I'd say the runout and play on the crank had little to do with the broken mag gear, and had more to do with that broken nut floating around. Also, I'd check to see if those bushings really are an aluminum alloy or are babbit. Personally, I'd say they were likely babbit, or some material like crank / rod bearings. As always, I enjoy watching your meticulous work. Too bad you didn't grow up around UC Davis, or attend school there. Awesome collection of antique farm equipment up there. As for Cats, we regularly used a 20 and a 30, and serial number 1C1 is in the collection, the very first production diesel Cat.
Factory bearings in those pony motors were babbitt lined bronze, but Cat factory replacements were just plain old aluminum. That pony was rebuilt at one point. Many machine their own bronze bushings instead, as they last far longer than the chintzy Cat replacements.
I agree on the gear breakage. There is alot of play in the crank, but not enough to cause that gear to bind. More likely either a piece of debris or fatigue on an old cast iron part that finally let go.
I have been watching videos of this kind from all over the world for a long time and I tell you that I am amazed .... I have never seen anyone like you! You can do everything, mechanics, electrical parts, concrete constructions, electrical connections ... And you never give up! You try to understand the problems and everything is a challenge for you. You have an incredible strength of character and physics (you lift even big weights). Highest esteem for you! Congratulations made with the heart from Italy. Very good! Fabrizio. P.S. I don't know English and I used the translator. I hope you understand.
Engine bearings are designed with some oil clearance, usually on the order of 0.002 to 0.004 of an inch. Play is normal and intentional. Some end play, the in and out play you described, is also normal, though also measured in thousandths of an inch. Get yourself a shop manual for that engine and reference that for specs. Engine machine shop will be able to help also.
This series is fascinating to me. I'd love to own a piece of Old Red. I'm a blacksmith, so I would probably make a commemorative knife with the piece and send it to you.
Agree, there might still be some unaccounted debris left from the previous repair. You are good so I know you will take every precaution for long term.
I got so absorbed in your work on BIG RED that I watched so many episodes for hours. You are very gifted in being able to describe what you are doing and with the don't give up attitude which makes it so interesting.
When I was a freshman in college in 1963 I worked for the college to help pay my tuition. One of my jobs was to level the new baseball field for the college. The cat I drove was a D8 and it had a pony motor. I had to crank it and then use it to crank the Diesel engine. Much of what you are doing brings back many pleasant memories fromwhenI was 18 years old. Thanks.
Damn this is good. I recognize all the parts and their construction after a semi lifetime working at the Allis Chalmers engine and tractor plants....in the day. I so miss getting my hands in their.
I love this series! I love the way you refurbish and bring each component back to life... exactly the way I'd be doing it, if I were tackling this. I've learned so much. Thanks! Recent subscriber.
I went through this same thing about 20 years ago. I also made the main bearings myself because I didn't want to wait for the new ones to come in. It helps to work in a machine shop if you own one of these things! I still have the new bearings if I ever need them. I actually blew-up my pony due to a lack of oil. I won't do that again! Really enjoy watching you work on Old Red, thanks for taking the time to record your efforts.
Just a friendly suggestion....you need to put those beautifully restored antique heavy-duty chains and pulleys to work. Best wishes and hugs for the pups.
i have just discovered your videos and i am completely amazed at your mechanical knowledge! you are really a top-notch mechanic and fabricator. i restore cars and never got heavily into engine work but learned body work and paint. watching your videos is like going to shop class! i've watched probably 5 of your presentations so far. i have an old D4 50's CAT tracked loader with a pony motor and that is why i first started watching. however, your knowledge and camera work has been so excellent that i just couldn't stop watching your next video. you are presenting wonderful work here Mr. Salvage!! thank you for these videos. and one other thing, i noticed that you are a young fella. i'm retired and i would NEVER begin to tackle the amount of work you are doing to "Big Red." your level of repair requires a lot of "piss and vinegar" as old mechanics used to say in West Virginia where I am from and sadly, at my age, i don't have much of that "youthful energy" available. LOL!
The reason the monkey wrench wouldn't stay put was that you had it facing the wrong way. Reverse it and it will tend to tighten down on your puller. Great content.
@@eliminator1978 Good boy. You are learning fast. Eat your vegetables. Stay in school, don't eat the yellow snow, and start the first word of your sentences with a capital letter.
That actually isn’t an oiling groove, but a “scroll seal” it is designed to keep the oil in the crank case by utilizing its counter clockwise groove to draw the oil back into the crank case when it is running. This is exactly what old English car manufacturers did instead of rear main seals. They work but not very well. That’s why English cars had a terrible reputation for oil leaks
Eaton truck transmissions use this type of seal on the input shaft. Never seen one leak. Though they're more splash lubricated than pressure fed like an engine normally would be.
Very interesting. You can see that on a sump that is only fed by gravity it should work reasonably well as long as the sleeve wear is within tolerances. So instead of a slow drip the rotation would be constantly sending the oil back into the sump. Quite a simple and novel approach. Thanks for sharing the information. 😉👌🏼
Actually antifreeze can not that hazardous as it seems. In Europe wine makers used anti freeze glycol to "improve" the taste (sweeter) in the 1980. It was only strange for the tax authorities that the guys needed that much antfreeze for the wine production although only owned few tractors.
@@FOOKRUclipsNUMBERS .... as far as the half castlenut goes, an earlier loss seems likely - should not come up a place lackin' that half, which doesn't look likely given the actual state of dismount. The second half as well as all those missing gear-teeth would drive me nuts until I found those. The diesel engine and the pony share coolant, they do not share oil though as far as I'd know. So, it has to be a pony issue. I'd presume the breakage in the Magneto gear happened with the second half of that castle nut, or with the whole nut getting between those gears breaking itself AND the teeth.
@@manfredschmalbach9023 a harmonic due to crank end float will shatter the mag gear too. it happened to mine it also bent the mag shaft. yes the oil is separate. where the teeth end up is down in gear recess under the starting pinion shaft, very important to find the pieces as that well is oil filled to also lube the pinion shaft bearings which are standard open ball bearings so any debris can get in and jam them. there is a small bung on the outside of the casting to drain that gear well. that nut is probably from a previous repair.
Thanks so much for these vids, very interesting and compelling. The extra time and effort you go to moving the camera etc is significant. All the best from the UK Ian
just had to post a quick comment saying how much I enjoy your videos, you explain everything, what it does, how to fix it and why your doing what your doing keep it up man, I look forward to every video you release, plus its great to see these older machines being fixed and put back to work, they dont make them like they used to anymore M@x
Don’t know if you will read this but I really enjoy your videos. You problem solve really well and your commentary is down to earth. Keep the videos coming sir.
I would do what I could to find a replacement before considering making a bushing. But that's me. Changing the material can have different effects. I would get some good gasket material and make all new gaskets. I like knowing I did all I could and trusting in the equipment
Definitely check out Squatch253. He has a video about rebuilding a D2 pony motor. Looks just like yours. . Although he's working on a much older machine than yours they probably didn't make many changes over the years. Parts may very well be available from Cat.
Started binge watching your videos Saturday morning at 9:30 am. Its now 2:00 am. Sunday morning. Very interesting and informative. Takes me back to my years working on lawn mowers and chainsaws.
Say _"pony motor"_ one more time. _I dare you, I double dare you._ Just kidding, I love watching you pull apart and figuring out how to fix that old thing. It just sounds funny how often you say _"pony motor"._ Thanks for sharing. 😉👌🏼
My friend, I'm so glad you did eventually do it as you found more broken/partly broken/damaged parts which saved you a later fixing. I'm looking forward to Part 16.
Also...I made a bearing out of a blank cast from an aluminum piston for the pony in my d7, turned the crank journal down n machined bearing to fit, .002-.003 clearance. Always shut pony off by shutting off gas n running carb dry so no gas shakes down into engine oil. Ask me how I know.
Are new bearings no longer available from CAT? I think I'd try to find NOS bearings before making them, those should be Babbitt bearings, not aluminum. Bronze may be too hard for your application and actually destroy the crankshaft. There's a reason CAT didn't make them from bronze to begin with, and it may be due to bronze not being compatible with the high RPM that little engine turns. As others have said, there are people like Squatch253 here on YT that you can reach out to for advice and possibly help with the pony motor.
No..no those aren't Babbitt bearing and they are in fact aluminum. Babbitt bearings are poured in and a much softer metal alloy. Also babbitt bearing are usually used when two halves of a shaft housing meet, its a little hard to pour a continuous bearing while its on/in the piece.
@@techmarine83 I have a lot of experience of precast babbitt bearings. They turned up in lots of UK vintage engines. They were injection moulded ready to fit in standard sizes.
It’s a babbit bearing not aluminum young man and yes you can replace it with a bronze bearing. The magneto gear got damaged by its loss mounting bolts if you remember you pointed it out alt hw lose the exhaust and bracketing was ! The cast iron gear was probably fractured for guide some time
Concentrations of ethylene glycol and water that have higher freezing temps than a proper mix SHRINK (or turn to slush) when they freeze, so 100% antifreeze concentration will not damage anything. Assuming you don't need it for cooling that is as it isn't a liquid and won't circulate. You're fine with straight ethylene glycol in your situation. I would have left it.
I've read all the comments below and agree with most of them sic; those bearings are made of what we called, in the vintage vehicle world, white metal. It was developed because of the microscopic highs and lows of the surface, allowing oil to penetrate deep into the bearing surface. There is a bronze alloy that has a high porosity, bit like a sponge, again developed for the early motor industry. If you make a bearing out of pure bronze you will have to add a spiral oil groove. Pleased if someone shoots me down on this. Anyway we've all got your interest at heart. Absolutely brilliant effort and filming, thanks. Pete on the Isle of Wight.
Ha...you're getting your education that's for sure! Keep your eyes and ears going for parts machines. If you found an already converted direct start dead machine would probably be the cheapest way to get the goods. Conversion parts usually cost more than scrap value of a whole machine. Demand and supply rule. Plus you'll get other parts, and some scrap money too. I'll be in touch with pics soon. Thanks for sharing
I am impressed with your asking watchers for their advice. I read them all and it is obvious they know what they are advising. Learn from others who HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT........trying to learn from your own mistakes is not the way to learn how to do something, . It is usually expensive and sometimes heartbreaking. Great video, old Red will roll again., l JoeB
I'd wash out the coolant circulation with a pressure washer to ensure all dirt being gone, same with big motor, unseal the cooler and whater pump and wash out the motor with a fire hose or sth similarly powerfull
Good job on fixing the pony motor keeping it original is part of what makes Red so cool I think a diesel motor oil or zinc additive will keep the cam and lifters happy 👍
Love being in your shop with you. I was concerned that maybe you had been injured. It seemed like a long wait for this video. So glad you're ok. Take care.
Who wants to bet that the castle nut is what broke the gear and bent the shaft? My thinking is that ol' Red was working on it and lost the nut in there without realizing it.
Can You loose a castlenut visible with bare eyes into an engine without noticing? I can't. I write my parts down or have magnet pads for parts with sharpy registers drawn around. But I am quite sure You're right, the nut cracked the gear-teeth, probably having still been a whole nut before wrecking/bending the Magneto, which would be still an issue now as another half might float around being another wreck-to-come. It is awful, but You gotta look for the broken parts and put the puzzle back together on the bench, should You not be wanting to relive the same shite again.
At about 18:00 you are correct, obviously flow runs bottom to top, as heat rises. Very nice and thorough job! How many others wanted to reach through the screen to give a hand on the awkward and heavy pony motor removal? On the crank bushings, I don't think they are aluminum, but probably steel with a Babbitt wear surface. Relatively easy to check...aluminum won't give off sparks when you grind on it. Great and detailed "dissection" of the machine, showing off many features most of us have never seen!
About 40 years ago I removed the pony engine from my D4. It was stuck hadnt ran in years. I took it completely apart. It has stuck valves. the crank was turned .010 and the block bored .020. and the bottom was brazed where a thrown rod in its past had cracked it.
Another great vid. When I saw you struggling to get the pony motor out I felt my self moving forward to help you. Just shows how absorbing this rebuild is. Waiting for the next episode. Best wishes from Australia. 🇦🇺👍
“Yeah Baby ! Yeah Baby ! Yeah Baby! Love the enthusiasm in your intro. Love your videos.... been waiting on the next one. ! Love the dogs in the videos. Beautiful Stay safe man.
Don't convert to electric start. I have seen a cat like this with electric start. It the worse that happened to it. The cat starts very hard when trying to start in very cold weather. The pony motor helps heat the engine and build up oil pressure before closing the compression release. This means the shortened the life of your engine.
And the wife says “what the heck are you yelling about, he can’t hear you! Im yelling “you missed one, don’t crack that plate!” just as you realize you had one more bolt to undo on that gear plate...) I said “see, he heard me just fine” so she shakes her head saying “figures” as she walks away. It’s a guy thing, they’ll never understand😉✌🏼
LOL, I was yelling at him the whole time! He does good work though... he's good at figuring it out.. I have worked with people... well.. ya know..Walking on the streets with a 40 watt bulb in a 100 watt world.
It is great to see a young bloke restoring and working on old machines. Keep up your great work. I would leave it as is, why spend all that money on changing it. Put that money into rebuilding what you have.
There would be no thought of reusing any old gaskets on somthing I just took apart. I can tell you from experience nothing worse that going all through somthing and having a leak way off inside because "oh that gasket lookes good"
That's one helluva snow shovel. Back in Montana we called that "the Ball Buster" lol. I had to laugh when you found that missing tooth and said "found it"...reminded me of a doctor losing his ring during surgery haha
making the sleeve can be done but you have to know the thermal expansion of the material and the minimum/maximum tolerances for the crank and sleeve, if they are too tight and heat up there will be no clearance for oil and friction will increase dramatically
I will never be in a position to do what you are doing, but it sure is entertaining to watch you work and learn at the same time the work you are doing. Never get frustrated , keep learning and we will keep watching..
I don't think you mixed antifreeze and water in the engine, unless you had the thermostat removed when cranking
@@apachepaul Also, the fluid level would have to be high enough for the water pump to move it.
Kllllklllkm
Wow oh man water will sit and freeze solid
Keep the pony motor, it’s not Old Red without it! Love the series.
Agreed!
Completely agree but, if there's a reasonably simple, inexpensive way of installing an electric starter to the big diesel, it could be a very useful option. Even having it as a back-up could be worthwhile. After all, it's not like you're going to 𝒑𝒖𝒔𝒉-𝒔𝒕𝒂𝒓𝒕 Old Red.😁
Agreed!🌟👍 I was taught never to paint a moustache on the Mona Lisa , eg if that was the way it was and worked don't meddle unnecessarily.
@@2H80vids OMG, have to laugh at that. I remember my dad having one of those old girls. Almost identical to that one. I remember when the pony motor went out. Guess how he started it? He gave it a push with a track hoe. At the time the machine was only about 10 years old. And yes, I am old lol.
Keep the pony motor, it’s not worth the time and money to convert.
Thank God there are people like you on this planet and thank you a thousand times for this masterpiece.
You’ve earned yourself the title of technician, you actually repaired the problem and diagnosed it correctly and didn’t just shotgun parts for a fix. Well done! I would’ve been annoyed having to pull the pony motor but I would’ve done it anyways lol great job
Hi .. from locked down England ! Many years ago I drove an old cat for a living ... it’s been an absolute pleasure to watch you work ... I salute you and all our friends across the water ..l can’t wait to see her going again.
Many thanks Matt
Another reason the pony motor is on a common coolant system is so that you can run the pony motor to warm up the main engine block for easy starting.
I'm still loving these, been here since the first few videos, I absolutely love your calm and humble attitude and ability just to get things done. It's so refreshing to see videos like this where you're not afraid just to say "I don't know"! So few people are willing to show that humility and share their learning experience, it's a wonderful treat.
That blew me away when you said, "I never saw a pony motor!" They rarely go bad, and their function is not only to start but more importantly to preheat the block and manifold of the machine. A pony will always start even well below zero temperatures provided you take care of your machine. I ran an old CAT in Vermont at a ski area. You start the pony, it would blat a very different sound. You knew when you were ready to throw the compression lever when the exhaust manifold was warm to touch. So start the pony, engage the gear allow the diesel to turn over with no compression and when the manifold was warm, throw the compression lever and you had a belch of black exhaust along with life! What a wonderful life.
I personally wouldn't do the electric start. A diesel with a pony will out-live one with a starter by decades.
Thanks for the wonderful posts.
“Don’t Grow Up, It’s a Trap!”
Best. Advice. Ever.
Everyone needs one of those stickers in their shop
@@arlocaines6056 don’t forget the clock also.
Yeah, my fix is here. Man I can't wait to get some coffee and sit down and be amazed.
same here, help my self some coffee, sit down and relax (and learn something)
I had the same thought, great vid to finish waking up to.
Yuuuuuup
I'm no expert (but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently), but I'd say the runout and play on the crank had little to do with the broken mag gear, and had more to do with that broken nut floating around. Also, I'd check to see if those bushings really are an aluminum alloy or are babbit. Personally, I'd say they were likely babbit, or some material like crank / rod bearings. As always, I enjoy watching your meticulous work. Too bad you didn't grow up around UC Davis, or attend school there. Awesome collection of antique farm equipment up there. As for Cats, we regularly used a 20 and a 30, and serial number 1C1 is in the collection, the very first production diesel Cat.
Damn it! This is why I don't know what any one is talking about I stayed at a Motel 6!!!!
Factory bearings in those pony motors were babbitt lined bronze, but Cat factory replacements were just plain old aluminum. That pony was rebuilt at one point. Many machine their own bronze bushings instead, as they last far longer than the chintzy Cat replacements.
I agree on the gear breakage. There is alot of play in the crank, but not enough to cause that gear to bind. More likely either a piece of debris or fatigue on an old cast iron part that finally let go.
@@WhyBeNick No they were aluminum from the factory.
more likely titanium
I have been watching videos of this kind from all over the world for a long time and I tell you that I am amazed .... I have never seen anyone like you! You can do everything, mechanics, electrical parts, concrete constructions, electrical connections ... And you never give up! You try to understand the problems and everything is a challenge for you. You have an incredible strength of character and physics (you lift even big weights). Highest esteem for you! Congratulations made with the heart from Italy. Very good!
Fabrizio.
P.S. I don't know English and I used the translator. I hope you understand.
We waited for this episode for a while, but it was most definitely worth the wait.
You explain some really basic things that many of us know, but you're not annoying. That's a great skill!
Motor Manual tells many things for a person; leaving out many that are NOT known to the beginner; many thanks for being thorough.
As an old fella, I have enjoyed watching you work on this old Cat, looking forward to next video!
Engine bearings are designed with some oil clearance, usually on the order of 0.002 to 0.004 of an inch. Play is normal and intentional. Some end play, the in and out play you described, is also normal, though also measured in thousandths of an inch. Get yourself a shop manual for that engine and reference that for specs. Engine machine shop will be able to help also.
This series is fascinating to me. I'd love to own a piece of Old Red. I'm a blacksmith, so I would probably make a commemorative knife with the piece and send it to you.
I'm 82, but even in my youth I don't think I could do what you do. I'm impressed.
Make sure you run a magnet through all open coolant holes.
well .. i can't say i'd have ever through of that. neodymium magnets are quite strong and small
Agree, there might still be some unaccounted debris left from the previous repair. You are good so I know you will take every precaution for long term.
I got so absorbed in your work on BIG RED that I watched so many episodes for hours. You are very gifted in being able to describe what you are doing and with the don't give up attitude which makes it so interesting.
No one can ever accuse you of being afraid to work...
That pony crank end play is about right for the age...but presents no issues...Seen many keep on running for years like that!
Waiting for chapter 16 pony motor returns, have really missed the show hopefully all is well with you. GOD BLESS
When I was a freshman in college in 1963 I worked for the college to help pay my tuition. One of my jobs was to level the new baseball field for the college. The cat I drove was a D8 and it had a pony motor. I had to crank it and then use it to crank the Diesel engine. Much of what you are doing brings back many pleasant memories fromwhenI was 18 years old. Thanks.
Damn this is good. I recognize all the parts and their construction after a semi lifetime working at the Allis Chalmers engine and tractor plants....in the day. I so miss getting my hands in their.
I love this series! I love the way you refurbish and bring each component back to life... exactly the way I'd be doing it, if I were tackling this. I've learned so much. Thanks! Recent subscriber.
Nice learning as You learn, least Your not a Know it all. I'm really loving this series. I Love it when see a Salvage Workshop new vid drop....
That’s when doing the right thing bites you, just filled that coolant! That’s a pain! Love the work on ol red, great series
Please post an update, your videos are so enjoyable to watch.
I went through this same thing about 20 years ago. I also made the main bearings myself because I didn't want to wait for the new ones to come in. It helps to work in a machine shop if you own one of these things! I still have the new bearings if I ever need them. I actually blew-up my pony due to a lack of oil. I won't do that again! Really enjoy watching you work on Old Red, thanks for taking the time to record your efforts.
Just a friendly suggestion....you need to put those beautifully restored antique heavy-duty chains and pulleys to work. Best wishes and hugs for the pups.
i have just discovered your videos and i am completely amazed at your mechanical knowledge! you are really a top-notch mechanic and fabricator. i restore cars and never got heavily into engine work but learned body work and paint. watching your videos is like going to shop class! i've watched probably 5 of your presentations so far. i have an old D4 50's CAT tracked loader with a pony motor and that is why i first started watching. however, your knowledge and camera work has been so excellent that i just couldn't stop watching your next video. you are presenting wonderful work here Mr. Salvage!! thank you for these videos. and one other thing, i noticed that you are a young fella. i'm retired and i would NEVER begin to tackle the amount of work you are doing to "Big Red." your level of repair requires a lot of "piss and vinegar" as old mechanics used to say in West Virginia where I am from and sadly, at my age, i don't have much of that "youthful energy" available. LOL!
The reason the monkey wrench wouldn't stay put was that you had it facing the wrong way. Reverse it and it will tend to tighten down on your puller. Great content.
If that's true, then he shouldn't have needed to throw out that half barrel of nails like he did because they had the head on the wrong end.
@@deconteesawyer5758 a pipe wrench only grabs one way, just like channel locks grip better one direction.
@@eliminator1978 Good boy. You are learning fast. Eat your vegetables. Stay in school, don't eat the yellow snow, and start the first word of your sentences with a capital letter.
He does this with all of his wrenches....
@@deconteesawyer5758 dude shut the hell up.
- a good mechanic pays attention to detail and cleanliness in my book , good job !! *
The energy in the intro gets me hyped everytime
I’m mesmerized by knowledge and skill set. Thanks for sharing.
Another great video and you'll know the Cat inside and out when your finished.
I believe you might be right, we'll see! I don't really WANT to tear into it further, but we'll see!
Thank you for saving the old loader. I like to see the old ones live again!😂
That actually isn’t an oiling groove, but a “scroll seal” it is designed to keep the oil in the crank case by utilizing its counter clockwise groove to draw the oil back into the crank case when it is running. This is exactly what old English car manufacturers did instead of rear main seals. They work but not very well. That’s why English cars had a terrible reputation for oil leaks
Yup. The rear pully on air cooled vw motors are like that too.
Well never knew that I know little bit about engines, as not scared to learn, learn something new every day, cheers M8 🍻
Eaton truck transmissions use this type of seal on the input shaft. Never seen one leak. Though they're more splash lubricated than pressure fed like an engine normally would be.
Very interesting. You can see that on a sump that is only fed by gravity it should work reasonably well as long as the sleeve wear is within tolerances. So instead of a slow drip the rotation would be constantly sending the oil back into the sump. Quite a simple and novel approach.
Thanks for sharing the information. 😉👌🏼
Manual transmissions had scrolls on the in put shaft just in side the throw out bearing slider tube
Rods and rod bearings may be the words you were looking for!
Your doing a good job! Amazing your tackling this old boy!
Don't worry about antifreeze coolant freezing, it is only water that expands when frozen, everything else shrinks.
I did not know that, good to know thank you
Actually antifreeze can not that hazardous as it seems. In Europe wine makers used anti freeze glycol to "improve" the taste (sweeter) in the 1980. It was only strange for the tax authorities that the guys needed that much antfreeze for the wine production although only owned few tractors.
@@thomasmuller9243 it nearly wiped out the Austrian wine industry dude
Dude I admire your stamina regarding this vehicle, respect.
Every time you say "It shouldn't be that hard a job" I get chest pains!!!!
What a cute little Flathead motor, still watching...👍👍👍👍
Not finding the missing teeth and the castle nut and wire would drive me crazy.
yup, not done until you find all the broken parts
@@t_4178 It is Me😵🥴🤯 maybe it's from a earlier repair
@@FOOKRUclipsNUMBERS .... as far as the half castlenut goes, an earlier loss seems likely - should not come up a place lackin' that half, which doesn't look likely given the actual state of dismount. The second half as well as all those missing gear-teeth would drive me nuts until I found those.
The diesel engine and the pony share coolant, they do not share oil though as far as I'd know. So, it has to be a pony issue. I'd presume the breakage in the Magneto gear happened with the second half of that castle nut, or with the whole nut getting between those gears breaking itself AND the teeth.
@@manfredschmalbach9023 Hopefully it will turn up in next vid, but I agree with You comment; to a point We will see in next installment haaaa
@@manfredschmalbach9023 a harmonic due to crank end float will shatter the mag gear too. it happened to mine it also bent the mag shaft. yes the oil is separate. where the teeth end up is down in gear recess under the starting pinion shaft, very important to find the pieces as that well is oil filled to also lube the pinion shaft bearings which are standard open ball bearings so any debris can get in and jam them. there is a small bung on the outside of the casting to drain that gear well. that nut is probably from a previous repair.
Thanks so much for these vids, very interesting and compelling. The extra time and effort you go to moving the camera etc is significant.
All the best from the UK
Ian
just had to post a quick comment saying how much I enjoy your videos, you explain everything, what it does, how to fix it and why your doing what your doing keep it up man, I look forward to every video you release, plus its great to see these older machines being fixed and put back to work, they dont make them like they used to anymore
M@x
Don’t know if you will read this but I really enjoy your videos. You problem solve really well and your commentary is down to earth. Keep the videos coming sir.
Thank you! I read all the comments!
I would do what I could to find a replacement before considering making a bushing. But that's me. Changing the material can have different effects. I would get some good gasket material and make all new gaskets. I like knowing I did all I could and trusting in the equipment
Definitely check out Squatch253. He has a video about rebuilding a D2 pony motor. Looks just like yours. . Although he's working on a much older machine than yours they probably didn't make many changes over the years. Parts may very well be available from Cat.
I know it's allot of work but 10 years from now you'll be glad you did this properly as the pony motor will still be working like it should.
Mr SW Doesn't even have to turn green. One of the few channels who's video's I watch to the end. A true engineer.
Started binge watching your videos Saturday morning at 9:30 am. Its now 2:00 am. Sunday morning. Very interesting and informative. Takes me back to my years working on lawn mowers and chainsaws.
Defo keep the pony motor - it's a much gentler way to start the main motor in cold climates. Depends what you want to do with the old Cat, of course!
Like the bust of Lincoln on the shelf above your bench!
Say _"pony motor"_ one more time.
_I dare you, I double dare you._
Just kidding, I love watching you pull apart and figuring out how to fix that old thing. It just sounds funny how often you say _"pony motor"._
Thanks for sharing. 😉👌🏼
Essentially . . .
My friend, I'm so glad you did eventually do it as you found more broken/partly broken/damaged parts which saved you a later fixing. I'm looking forward to Part 16.
Also...I made a bearing out of a blank cast from an aluminum piston for the pony in my d7, turned the crank journal down n machined bearing to fit, .002-.003 clearance. Always shut pony off by shutting off gas n running carb dry so no gas shakes down into engine oil. Ask me how I know.
Made your own bearing? Now thats cool!
So enjoy your video's I like the way you break things down & put it all back
Regards
Steve UK London
Mr Pete proved you can use an adjustable wrench either way.
NOT a pipe wrench. When you started with the puller that way, I knew it wouldn't work.
Had the pipe wrench on backward
Dude, that is the best ever salvage rebuild I’ve ever watched. Very informative and excellent work attitude and philosophy
This series is so interesting. I have learned so much about this setup. I appreciate how you keep your work are clean. Keep up the great work.
Are new bearings no longer available from CAT? I think I'd try to find NOS bearings before making them, those should be Babbitt bearings, not aluminum. Bronze may be too hard for your application and actually destroy the crankshaft. There's a reason CAT didn't make them from bronze to begin with, and it may be due to bronze not being compatible with the high RPM that little engine turns.
As others have said, there are people like Squatch253 here on YT that you can reach out to for advice and possibly help with the pony motor.
No..no those aren't Babbitt bearing and they are in fact aluminum. Babbitt bearings are poured in and a much softer metal alloy. Also babbitt bearing are usually used when two halves of a shaft housing meet, its a little hard to pour a continuous bearing while its on/in the piece.
You can get any part that CAT made. They will make it to order from the prints---you just have to pay.
@@techmarine83 I have a lot of experience of precast babbitt bearings. They turned up in lots of UK vintage engines. They were injection moulded ready to fit in standard sizes.
@@hotpuppy1 Trust me, that's NOT true!
@@SalvageWorkshop how do you know the measurements of the bearings, that you are going to make?
i am always staggered how many bits & pieces goes into each part
Yahoo! Been waiting patiently for the next installment!!!
👍🏻👍 Two thumbs way up from me! We'd been anxiously awaiting the update video with the pony motor!
It’s a babbit bearing not aluminum young man and yes you can replace it with a bronze bearing. The magneto gear got damaged by its loss mounting bolts if you remember you pointed it out alt hw lose the exhaust and bracketing was ! The cast iron gear was probably fractured for guide some time
I thought the same thing Ronnie, But the how is my question?
I was still concerned as to where the fractured castle nut came from.?
@@Curtislow2 pretty sure as said in the video, someone dropped that into the crankcase when working on the con rods in the past.
Bearing is special aluminum alloy.
@@toma43 There is no aluminium in that babbit metal.
really enjoyed this rebuild on old red you have the patience of a saint I doff my hat to your abilities sir greetings from belgium
KEEP IT PONY MOTOR................. IT WOUDNT BE THE SAME WITHOUT IT. YOUR DOING A NICE JOB ON OLD RED
Always a pleasure to watch you restoring things into their inner core. Kudos to you!
Concentrations of ethylene glycol and water that have higher freezing temps than a proper mix SHRINK (or turn to slush) when they freeze, so 100% antifreeze concentration will not damage anything. Assuming you don't need it for cooling that is as it isn't a liquid and won't circulate. You're fine with straight ethylene glycol in your situation. I would have left it.
I've read all the comments below and agree with most of them sic; those bearings are made of what we called, in the vintage vehicle world, white metal. It was developed because of the microscopic highs and lows of the surface, allowing oil to penetrate deep into the bearing surface. There is a bronze alloy that has a high porosity, bit like a sponge, again developed for the early motor industry. If you make a bearing out of pure bronze you will have to add a spiral oil groove. Pleased if someone shoots me down on this. Anyway we've all got your interest at heart. Absolutely brilliant effort and filming, thanks. Pete on the Isle of Wight.
YEA ! Your back !👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
That blowtorch hub removal / explosion makes me jump every time! Great films though I really enjoy watching this project!
Oh please don't give up. OU were going so well. Give us an update please.
Ha...you're getting your education that's for sure! Keep your eyes and ears going for parts machines. If you found an already converted direct start dead machine would probably be the cheapest way to get the goods. Conversion parts usually cost more than scrap value of a whole machine. Demand and supply rule. Plus you'll get other parts, and some scrap money too. I'll be in touch with pics soon. Thanks for sharing
When will the next movie be? I can not wait. You are doing a great job, congratulations and best regards from Poland !!!
I am impressed with your asking watchers for their advice. I read them all and it is obvious they know what they are advising. Learn from others who HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT........trying to learn from your own mistakes is not the way to learn how to do something, . It is usually expensive and sometimes heartbreaking. Great video, old Red will roll again., l
JoeB
I'd wash out the coolant circulation with a pressure washer to ensure all dirt being gone, same with big motor, unseal the cooler and whater pump and wash out the motor with a fire hose or sth similarly powerfull
Good job on fixing the pony motor keeping it original is part of what makes Red so cool I think a diesel motor oil or zinc additive will keep the cam and lifters happy 👍
Those are some happy good dogg's! Never forget internet, dogs are people too.
So, you've met a Weimaraner . . . .
Love being in your shop with you. I was concerned that maybe you had been injured. It seemed like a long wait for this video. So glad you're ok. Take care.
Nope, not injured! I've had quite a few big projects going, but don't worry I've been filming all of it and I'll take you along as well!
Who wants to bet that the castle nut is what broke the gear and bent the shaft? My thinking is that ol' Red was working on it and lost the nut in there without realizing it.
Can You loose a castlenut visible with bare eyes into an engine without noticing?
I can't. I write my parts down or have magnet pads for parts with sharpy registers drawn around. But I am quite sure You're right, the nut cracked the gear-teeth, probably having still been a whole nut before wrecking/bending the Magneto, which would be still an issue now as another half might float around being another wreck-to-come. It is awful, but You gotta look for the broken parts and put the puzzle back together on the bench, should You not be wanting to relive the same shite again.
Red may not have been the saint he is being made out to be..
Hi Buddy. I'll never do what your doing but what an education 👍🏻 I really love your enthusiasm. Cheers Stevie 😎🇬🇧
That piece of but in the drain pipe looks to be part of the connecting rods nuts need to check them big time
At about 18:00 you are correct, obviously flow runs bottom to top, as heat rises. Very nice and thorough job! How many others wanted to reach through the screen to give a hand on the awkward and heavy pony motor removal? On the crank bushings, I don't think they are aluminum, but probably steel with a Babbitt wear surface. Relatively easy to check...aluminum won't give off sparks when you grind on it.
Great and detailed "dissection" of the machine, showing off many features most of us have never seen!
About 40 years ago I removed the pony engine from my D4. It was stuck hadnt ran in years. I took it completely apart. It has stuck valves. the crank was turned .010 and the block bored .020. and the bottom was brazed where a thrown rod in its past had cracked it.
Another great vid. When I saw you struggling to get the pony motor out I felt my self moving forward to help you. Just shows how absorbing this rebuild is. Waiting for the next episode. Best wishes from Australia. 🇦🇺👍
“Yeah Baby ! Yeah Baby ! Yeah Baby! Love the enthusiasm in your intro.
Love your videos.... been waiting on the next one. ! Love the dogs in the videos. Beautiful
Stay safe man.
I wish I could do do this. I love this project and all your others. It's been awesome following along. 😁
Don't convert to electric start. I have seen a cat like this with electric start. It the worse that happened to it. The cat starts very hard when trying to start in very cold weather. The pony motor helps heat the engine and build up oil pressure before closing the compression release. This means the shortened the life of your engine.
Great to see you're still working on 'Old Red' and posting your videos - great stuff.
England
UK.
And the wife says “what the heck are you yelling about, he can’t hear you! Im yelling “you missed one, don’t crack that plate!” just as you realize you had one more bolt to undo on that gear plate...) I said “see, he heard me just fine” so she shakes her head saying “figures” as she walks away. It’s a guy thing, they’ll never understand😉✌🏼
Touche
LOL, I was yelling at him the whole time! He does good work though... he's good at figuring it out.. I have worked with people... well.. ya know..Walking on the streets with a 40 watt bulb in a 100 watt world.
@@hawkdsl well said.
Same here with my wife.
my wife is all way telling me the same thing lol
It is great to see a young bloke restoring and working on old machines. Keep up your great work.
I would leave it as is, why spend all that money on changing it. Put that money into rebuilding what you have.
There would be no thought of reusing any old gaskets on somthing I just took apart. I can tell you from experience nothing worse that going all through somthing and having a leak way off inside because "oh that gasket lookes good"
That's one helluva snow shovel. Back in Montana we called that "the Ball Buster" lol. I had to laugh when you found that missing tooth and said "found it"...reminded me of a doctor losing his ring during surgery haha
We had 4" of wet snow last night here near Death Valley.
Woohoo! More salvage workshop!!!! Get some!!!!👊😁
Evaporust sells a product you add to your radiator that will remove the rust from the coolant system. You should give that a try
I love this series of videos. And I am in your corner. I hope you get that beautiful beast up & running like a charm! 👍🏻👍🏻
making the sleeve can be done but you have to know the thermal expansion of the material and the minimum/maximum tolerances for the crank and sleeve, if they are too tight and heat up there will be no clearance for oil and friction will increase dramatically