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I received mine today, the hypersonics, one word: Sumptuous! Fast, detailed, impactful, 3D very precise soundstage, live like, my system never sounded as closed to live performance before, well done! Sounds separation and definition are Impressive from high to low with a sense of the space, we can feel the dimension of the recording room, the reverbs on the wall, it's immersive. The bass impacts are surprising! Thank you Greg! These opamps give all the sense to the expression "rediscovering my records" I mean the sound different is huge it transforms my amplifiers like no other
@@ChicagoRob2as if a veil had been lifted over the cymbals, a clear sound without any dryness or aggressiveness, everything is cleaner and everything is better defined in all registers, however in my system with the Aiyima a07 Max mono with a little more background noise, I have ordered the brand new 3e Audio A5 amplifier, I am curious what change it will bring, I think it represents the pinnacle of what is possible to achieve with a TPA325X chip
Hi! I'm glad that this idea, which I tried and made a video for, now has a factory implementation! Did you manage to find out which op-amps are included in parallel in these assemblies?
Hey guys - received my Supersonic V2s today and tested them on an Aiyima A70. A/B tested against Muses 01, and Sparkos SS3602. It destroys them both in terms of separation, bass quantity and quality. My Altima A70 does not have enough space so I could not test the SS2590s. However, now I'm curious about Hypersonic, but I don't see the dimensions published on the website yet to know if they will fit in my chassis.
@@User_not_found_403 I use the Hypersonics with Aiyima A07 Max, it sounds so good it's crazy! They run hot like iron and don't fit inside but I don't have kids nor cats so I use my amps without covers, another solution would be to adapt the covers by drilling an opening
@@User_not_found_403 I use the hypersonics with Aiyima A07 Max without their amplifiers covers, you could do the same with the A70 if you don't have kids or cats playing around The TPA3255 chips heatsinks stay cold here, you could also drill openings in the top of amplifiers covers and use dip8 socket extenders, the Hypersonics are send with 2 of them for each opamp. Soundwise same conclusion as yours, maybe on level higher
Great work, Greg. They all sound good in different ways. Perhaps the 8x was my least favourite. I prefer (without detailed listening) the x2V2 and x4. All the best, Rob in Switzerland
Near the table on the left side, I see an IcePower 1200AS2 amplifier. It seems to be a very interesting module. Could you tell me more about it and compare it to other amplifiers?
The current draw on some of these is insane. Many preamp / DAC regulators max out at 500mA and provide power to multiple opamps and other components. The 'Brute Force 1' requires 290mA. Probably worth thoroughly assessing a power circuit's abilities before installing a few of these.
Hello Greg the Opp Amps look great nice heat sinks. I have a pair of Fosi V3 mono’s my understanding is I would only need 2 x Opp Amps per mono amp the 3rd opp amp fitted is used to convert the single ended input into balanced so no need to swap this OPP amp out or will changing this 3rd OPP Amp further improve the sound?
For me it's a bit like comparing record player cartridges. The V1 reminds me of the famous Denon DL 110. Natural and very good resolution. I like them all in their own way. Listened with quadral titan mk iv speakers. Switches modified in the crossover with Mundorf Capacitors for the good TH800. Its a legenary ribbon tweeters by Technics . Dac Playmate with v6 vivid and v6 classic. Funny that I can also hear the differences with Burson. Thanks for the introduction
Hi-so with this parallel arrangement-these have got to draw way more current-so this is approved for DACs and Pre’s but not power amps yes? But wait I am confused--you are using these in power amps (ZA3) not DACs or preamps. Have you tested them with the Fosi V3 monos? Maybe cannot use in the V3 monos because they are already challenged with heat generation/dissipation. What about with the ZD3 DAC? Will the Supersonic V1 or the hypersonic further tame the SABR 9039 "glare" or "sheen"? I am listening on headphones attached to my laptop via Firefox. I can't hear much difference between these --they all sound good. Would be interesting to compare them with the non-parralled version of the op amps, and vs the muses02 and the Sparkos.
From the slew rate (27 V/μs) and distortion I am guessing that they are all based on the OPA1612, except the SUPERSONIC-V1 which is based on the OPA1642 - 20V/μs. They are OK Opamps the OPA1612 is used in the Topping Pre90 for example, but they are too slow for audiophile use where the 150μS of the OPA627 and OPA828 reign supreme. Personally I would only use them for the filtering not amplifying stages. I think the noise reduction is working like Summing Opamps together - whereby multiple Opamp circuits are designed in parallel with each other but with double the supporting discrete components (resistors/ caps) as well. In summing, both Opamps have the same function but any noise generated by one will be slightly different from the other and as a result when they are summed together it will be cancelled out. From what I can hear it all sounds a bit average - I'd like to know what is the ADC audio interface you are using? Because if that's got a load of meh opamps and ADC in it, that will be bottlenecking the sound we are hearing.
The muses02 has a slew rate of only 5V/muSec and lots of people like them including me. I have seen op amps advertising 150 V/muSec-doesn’t mean they sound great… I think people tend to look most at: open loop gain, slew rate, noise. But I think bias current and degree of class A output operation should be more critical…
@@kineahora8736 Depending on genetic background many people don't have the ability to process high frequency sound detail in the brain. Its like 30% of people don't have an inner dialogue and another % can't visualise, or if they do its in black/ white not colour. To people who can't process those high frequency sounds the NE5532 sounds exactly the same as an OPA627 they simply can't discern any difference.
@@fx-studio (1) I have never heard this about high frequency information (2) my post was talking about slew rate- which has very little to do with high frequency Fidelity- slew rate is all about fast attacks and edge dynamics.
The TPA3255 can handle up to 69Vdc Recommended is up to 53Vdc... however a fully charged LifePo4 = 57.6Vdc... Will that ruin the Amps? (Voltage regulators for the Opamps for example? Assuming they run +/- 15Vdc)
Your a genius, thank you. I would like to see more about what looks to be some interesting power supplies you have there on my left. This 1 is tough, I'm leaning toward v2 but not sure, i think i would need to hear 15 - 30s clips with time stamps of each to compare.
This is really interesting, I was a serious tweaker back in the eighties to the noughties and this has got me thinking. It's getting a bit like serious overclocking in the computer world. I'm half expecting water cooled amps at some point, LOL!
This video is very good, but since I don't have good headphones that can clearly hear both, I would like your help. I'm setting up a 4-way studio audio monitoring system and the amplifiers will be dedicated to each speaker. I would like to insert discrete op-amps for each frequency range, preferably the ones that sound better and bring precision, clarity and fidelity to each frequency range. The audio monitors will be used specifically for electronic music production. For Bass: For Mid: For Mid High: For Treble:
Hmmm. I could easily hear differences on my Toyota van audio system which is stock. Perhaps you should listen again with better equipment, headphones…?
With the Hypersonics arrived at home yesterday I can hear a difference compared to Muses, Bursons, Akliams and all the others opamps I've tried, and de sound quality gap is HUGE. These opamps are Excellent 👍🏻
Did you test them with Fosi v3 mono? what opamps did you use to compare FOSI ZD3 & T+A DAC 200? Did you do it with open case? Pozdrawiam, Detektyw zakupowy ;)
For op amp comparisons, can you provide a line out feed rather than through your speakers? Your speakers are amazing but a line out feed would be awesome. Thank You.
I am currently in a noisy cafe so will listen to these later, but I think there's something about appealing to other senses when opamps start getting silly candy colors and shapes. I suspect people will get a preconditioned expectation bias based on looks and subconscious triggering of candy/fruit flavors. This colouring and shaping, if not out of necessity, has no place for internal components and costs extra money as part of design and manufacturing. I can therefore only suspect it's to intentionally play on subconscious bias cues.
its funny the people who are the most worried about bias are often the ones filled with judgements of others that subconsciously shape their view of the world
Totally true, but it's an industry... gotta make products that stand out visually for marketing purposes. It's up to consumers to make decisions that they're happy with. Problem with audio products is you can't really judge them before you've bought them, and the expectation bias then overrules any real observed qualities or lack of.
Counterpoint: This is a product aimed at an audience that likes to tinker and switch things up. Part of its "intended use" expands beyond "internal component not normally seen in operation," to "direct intractability is expected on an ongoing-if possibly infrequent-basis." The heatsink itself was already identified as a necessary element for improved component longevity and sustained performance. Being easy to identify and match up using color coding in a collection of components improves the User Experience (especially with their V1/V2 bundle), strengthens brand identity, and helps visually differentiate products within the lineup. The color anodizing of the heatsink is a minimal manufacturing expense over the existing bare metal component, so why not do it?
@waffle911 Why? Because unlike opamps like Sparkos which have a stabilization circuit to work in a wide variety of circuits to provide wider than typical compatibility, these (AFAIK) are just paralleled off-the-shelf opamps, and so firstly there's extra power supply demand, which there's no guarantee a circuit can take. Second, standard opamps behave based on the peripheral circuit components (resistor values and for stability and preventing oscillation, usually capacitors too) and the efficacy of these may not work when paralleling opamps. Third, if the thing doesn't oscillate and burn out (which is why huge chunky heatsinks probably are needed on the new 'designs') then yes there's increased current output, but again, follow-on parts of an I/V filter would have been designed around other electrical values and in the worst case something could fail, or converting that extra current to voltage and then using a buffer might result in clipping distortion. Overall, in my opinion, opamp rolling with these is playing pot-luck with the unit it goes into. If I am wrong and there's compensation circuitry added to these to be stable, and if something has been done to ensure they aren't going to damage the units they go into, then I am sure @VirtualHiFi can address it in a further video or their website. Based on my understanding of opamp electronics, opamp rolling is inadvisable unless using a very similar behaving opamp where the peripheral circuit would still give the same or similar gain, but perhaps more current output and less noise. But one would need to calculate compatibility and not blindly swap opamps for others. I think the same is true here if you wish to guarantee problem-free operation. Again, perhaps @VirtualHiFi can comment on whether they are supporting the practice of 'blind' opamp rolling, or advising people know enough electronics to correctly deduce if swapping for one of these new opamps is going to work, rather than just chancing it.
More transistors in parallel ===> more output current, hence, giving you greater drive to produce the output signal presented to the power amplifier's input stage. The sound output would be more dynamic, ease of sound reproduction. and a fuller sound. Another way is to have a CLASS A transistor or tube output stage, this was done before many years ago, but bulkier. Viewers are conscious that sufficient or ample power in the sound chain produces excellent sound.
How does overloading the power supply fix drive problems to amplifiers? Most op-amps have output impedances of 100 ohms or less ... most next stages will have input impedances of 10k or higher ... that's a damping factor of at least 100 .... So I just can't see where this is either necessary or wise.
I have an Allen&Heath Mod2 mixing desk from 1972, do you think the op-amps would reduce noise and clean up the signal, would love to use the desk as Stem mixer (it has 16 channels with 16 monitor return channels, take off 2 monitor channels for master and in theory I could have a 30 channel audio summing with 16 channels with original CARNHILL Transformers and a simple EQ), I don’t know how many op-amps are on each channel, so do you do bulk discount? (Or be interested in working with me as a joint project?) I think the power supply would need a major upgrade as well then if your op-amps are so hungry 🤭🤭🤭 Where are you based, I’m in Hannover, Germany
Space is limited in my ChiFi R2R DAC. I’m currently running a SS3602, which I like very much and sounds great. My other favorite is the Muses8920, which, ironically, delivers a much larger soundstage than the Sparkos. I’d like to try the Supersonic V1, but am concerned with the size. What are the length and width dimensions?
Don't be afraid to drill an opening in your device case or use it without if you don't have a cat or kids having fun around, I use the Hypersonics without the Aiyima A07 Max covers
Nice stuff. I'm very inclined to try them but I would need to know which one easily fit in which amp. It would be useful to have the info in the website, for example I have a fosi v3 at hand (in the past I bought some big op amps and had to sent them back cause I could not fit them).
@@PaoloCaminiti you probably also need to use a socket extender, the V3 produce a lot of heat, I would drill a hole on the cover to avoid overheating as these opamps run hot
i'm very curious about your opamps, sparcos labs Muses01,02,03, ss3602, burson audio v7 vivid, burson audio v7 classic pro, are they superior to these high-end opamps?
@@SERKAN_HOT34 Believe me you can order it you will not be disappointed, they sound way better than Sparkos, Muse, Burson V7, if not you have 30 days to return it. All the opamps I tried before are for sale
You say that it is better to listen via browser. In my case: W11 optimized for multimedia (reduction of JITTER generated in the CPU: ALU internal registers), Firefox -> JRiver MC 64 bits, which takes control of the audio via WDM driver. Firefox with uBlock Origin to avoid the advertising inserted by RUclips (or free Spotify). The sound from Firefox is better than in Chrome-based browsers.
i couldn't hear much of a difference. but i didn't download the video and didn't use my Hi-X55 headphone. this reminds me of an elektor low power amp project where they used something about 25 NE5532 op-amps or so as output stage.
The V1 reminds me of the Muse 02 only a bit punchier. The V2 was the one that made my ears perk up first. When it switched to the V2 it was so drastic that even across the room I could immediately hear the difference. The V2 reminds me of the really nice sounding Kenwood intergrated amps that where Dual mono internal construction with everything being discreate componets no op amps from 1970's early 1980's. I might like to get 2 of those V2's and 2 hypsonics! The Hypersonic was amazing and that is what I will be ordering for sure. I have a wife and 3 sons and Christmas is awfuly close so might have to wait. I would like to get 4 or more to have on hand but will likely just order 2. I like it all. I like good highs, mids and lows and the ability to be very dynamic and quick when it is required. I like a clarity but not at the cost of texture, sound stage, and warmth. The hypersonic seemed to have it all while still being very balanced. The Brute Force was absolutely incredible sounding!! In the early 1990's I owned a McIntosh tube amp and a set of Sansui Mono Block amps and the Brute Force reminded me of those with a good source that was well mastered and very dynamic. It had it all the highs, lows and mids as well as incredible seperation and sound stage with lots of punch. It made the amp sound like an entirely different amp. I used to run really powerful amps and then only run them in the 1wpc to 20wpc range into very effecient speakers and that is what the Brute Force reminded me of. It was as if the amp suddenly developed more dynamic head room and power. It was hard to believe it was the same speakers and amp! Too bad it is so power hungry and generates so much heat!
My real-time impressions. Magnat MA 900 (mod) in Direct OFF (JJ 12AT7 preamping). Convolution with brightness at 6.5kHz, +0.3dB, Q=2. KEF Q100 5.25" coaxial (mod) in near field. With Kimber Kabnle 8PR cables, now with 5 mm cotton rope inside (as Danny Richie suggested weeks ago and does with his cables, with similar geometry to Kimber's). 05:29 - Cherry - Hara Noda Super Sonic V2 - the best, more musical 08:29 - Falconeer - Lovren Super Sonic V2 - the best, more musical 10:29 - World Goes By - Houses On the Hill Super Sonic V2 - the best, more musical 13:29 - Love You For It All - Daniel Gunnarsson Super Sonic V2 - the best, more musical 16:29 - Hotel Lalo - Harry Edvino Super Sonic V2 - the best, more musical Super Sonic V2 - 10 points (more bass, highs OK) Super Sonic V1 - 8 points (more highs, too much with your speakers) 👉Hypersonic and Brute Force one - UNREAL SOUND, not credible. It is the same thing I notice in most 24/192 vinyl rips, too much spatiality, not credible, liking it better in 24/96 FLAC 0. Sometimes it is not like that, I have to decide in each rip
@@nicoras8803 It is the best way to equalize the frequency response, especially if it is already very good (KEF Q100 at 30º from the listener, as happens in almost all coaxials: avoid direct focus, 0º). With rePhase I make the minimum adjustments in amplitude and... PHASE, minimizing it. Up to 300-400 Hz our brain does not appreciate the phase change when equalizing, so a PEQ works very well. At higher frequencies we do appreciate it, so it is very convenient to minimize it. rePhase allows you to create the convolution file that you will then import into a good software player such as JRiver Media Center (64 bits better). From the PEQ (included in the JRiver DSP) you can adjust the bass of each channel, the distance of the speakers if you are not in the center of the listening triangle... and effects for when the recording is not of great quality or to play series or movies. The phase or time shift (JITTER), however small, is noticeable by our brain (it was thought not but now we know it is). One of the problems with cheap class D amplifiers, such as the Fosi / TPA3255, is the phase shift starting from 1 kHz. With electronic music we will not notice it but if we listen to quality recordings with real instruments and voices without autotune we will. The new and expensive Hypex, Purifi, Orchard Audio... have reduced this phase deviation to 20 kHz (almost non-existent in class A and AB). Orchard Audio is directly 0 to 20 kHz.
This is a new product and needs better visualization during sound test. Hyper/SuperSonic V1/V2 means nothing to us when we can’t even see which opamp to relate to and what type/tech it has during sound demo. All we saw was a pretty carousel and names. Just skipped through it as usually…
Go for the Hypersonics it's the endgame opamp for me, immersive and addictive sound no going back possible to discrete Sparkos, Burson, Akliam for me by far, I was sceptical until they arrive at home, gorgeous sounding
@@tofffsymagic1099 interesting ... where did you swap the opamps in a DAC/AMP? I’m getting a J3 DAC from Geshelli Labs this month, going to try both Sparkos ss3602 and Burson V7 Vivids, but probably will end up sticking to the 2590 pro opamps from Sparkos, they’re too perfect and have been my go to. LMK if you want me to describe it.. 😉
The little matter that normally room temperature chips suddenly need heat sinks should tell you how sketchy it is. The huge leaps in current draw are almost certainly due to the class ab outputs in those chips passing high current from one chip to the next... back feeding current into the outputs. How can that be a good thing?
@@Douglas_Blake AND, if the temporal mismatch is in an applicable point of the output-drivers pairs transitions then the resulting current-spikes on the power rails/ground will increase noise in the very uppermost audio-freq ranges... it may actually be the source of some of the 'airy' quality. They are getting those current spikes also because of the current-draw is passing through those single-pin conductors and the LR factor will result in a greater spike than if they were soldered into a pcb with a ground plane power return path. Unless there is realtime (not digitally averaged) differential probing of the power rails against a very stable ground reference, this cannot be measured/discerned from some 'magic' high frequency improvement... human ears don't work that well (sorry, to all those golden ears out there). My background includes tech-work/design on pipe organs, high caliber test equipment (Tektronix in the 80's), the first AED (medical electronics where S:N reigns supreme), then 11 years helping creating hardware/software simulation and noise analysis gear in the CAE/SDE field. And now I've got a Dr in front of my name (dentist) w/full-faculty credentials working with med-compromised folks including some of those asthmatic kids who truly CAN hear in the 30kHz range... something the rest of us generally cannot do. And at age 65 I began to study human voice production and hearing. in parallel with working with my 'regular' patients.
So you're telling me, by using 8 opamps to increase the current capability of the whole thing by 8, it's now capable of driving 256 poweramp input stages at once, instead of only 64? 😂😂 Seriously, that's such an exercise in futility. Input stages are so high in input impedance, any bog standard opamp is severely overpowered for the purpose already.
Automatically voids original warranty of an amp or any other device, plus risk of over heating or worse. Space Lego gimmicks in this case but Grzesiu has a sense for creativity and marketing :)
Bye bye discrete opamps, they sound better than everything I tried before, the hypersonics are endgame opamps for me, and the sound difference isn't tiny at all
Nope of all the things in the hi if world op amps are one of components that really sounds different and can make a true improvement in sound reproduction or make it worse.
A decent poweramplifier doesn't need to be controlled by the pre-amplifier, it will listen to it's output signal and amplify it fully faithful and therefore fully transparent with the exception of the power needed to drive the loudspeaker correctly. I don't like your useless products certainly when you scratch of the type numbers of the OpAmps you use as I have seen on your own website. That is a shame in it self and show that none of your customers can trust you and your products. It's a discrase.
tbh I usually really love your videos, and I know creating a video is hard work, but this was not a good video explaining what you tried to accomplish from a scientific perspective, it feels kinda amature-ish, would love for a more in-depth detailed video on these opamps, before I'm tinkering with something that can ruin my speakers or device..
The hypersonics are making my speakers sound like never before, endgame opamps for me from huge margin, like Greg said don't use it in closed enclosure or with the device case, their heatsinks do their job
@@igoryakunin685 you are welcome, in my case my amplifiers stay cold even after 12 hours of non stop use, the only parts that get hot are the opamps heatsinks.
This is a new product and needs better visualization during sound test. Hyper/SuperSonic V1/V2 means nothing to us when we can’t even see which opamp to relate to and what type/tech it has during sound demo. All we saw was a pretty carousel and names. Just skipped through it as usually…
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I do not know more about electronics, but like to watch for knowledge, i have a doubt, if you are willing clarify, please reply.
Noch eine Frage, im Vergleich mit dem SparkoS SS3602, wie schlagen sich die Supersonic V1 & V2?
Just ordered 4 V2's for my Fosi ZA3 mono blocks! Super stoked to hear the difference. Love your content! You are a true Audiophile!
Have you had a chance to listen to them yet?, I have the ZA3 myself and very much interested in your experience with these OP-amps.
How long did it take to receive ? I ordered mine Jan 1st and still haven’t heard anything after two emails sent.
I received mine today, the hypersonics, one word: Sumptuous! Fast, detailed, impactful, 3D very precise soundstage, live like, my system never sounded as closed to live performance before, well done! Sounds separation and definition are Impressive from high to low with a sense of the space, we can feel the dimension of the recording room, the reverbs on the wall, it's immersive. The bass impacts are surprising! Thank you Greg! These opamps give all the sense to the expression "rediscovering my records" I mean the sound different is huge it transforms my amplifiers like no other
How are the upper mids/lower treble? Any glare or forwardness?
@@ChicagoRob2as if a veil had been lifted over the cymbals, a clear sound without any dryness or aggressiveness, everything is cleaner and everything is better defined in all registers, however in my system with the Aiyima a07 Max mono with a little more background noise, I have ordered the brand new 3e Audio A5 amplifier, I am curious what change it will bring, I think it represents the pinnacle of what is possible to achieve with a TPA325X chip
What’s your amp?
Hi! I'm glad that this idea, which I tried and made a video for, now has a factory implementation! Did you manage to find out which op-amps are included in parallel in these assemblies?
OPA1612 and the base one is OPA1642
I like the op amps but you should just tell us what op amp chips you used in each.
Please compare to the Sparkolabs SS2590 dual opamp.
Pretty please
Hey guys - received my Supersonic V2s today and tested them on an Aiyima A70. A/B tested against Muses 01, and Sparkos SS3602. It destroys them both in terms of separation, bass quantity and quality. My Altima A70 does not have enough space so I could not test the SS2590s. However, now I'm curious about Hypersonic, but I don't see the dimensions published on the website yet to know if they will fit in my chassis.
@@User_not_found_403 I use the Hypersonics with Aiyima A07 Max, it sounds so good it's crazy! They run hot like iron and don't fit inside but I don't have kids nor cats so I use my amps without covers, another solution would be to adapt the covers by drilling an opening
@@User_not_found_403 I use the hypersonics with Aiyima A07 Max without their amplifiers covers, you could do the same with the A70 if you don't have kids or cats playing around The TPA3255 chips heatsinks stay cold here, you could also drill openings in the top of amplifiers covers and use dip8 socket extenders, the Hypersonics are send with 2 of them for each opamp. Soundwise same conclusion as yours, maybe on level higher
For the YT app. Settings - advanced - switch off stable volume may help a bit.
How does the super sonic v2 compare to the sparkos labs ss3602?
Great work, Greg. They all sound good in different ways.
Perhaps the 8x was my least favourite.
I prefer (without detailed listening) the x2V2 and x4.
All the best, Rob in Switzerland
1:53 - yes. and in case of a car performance you cam measure the difference.
but how you measure the "dynamic, refineness and richness" of an op amp ?
I’d like to see if you could install one of these op amps into an eversolo and see if there’s an improvement
Is this taking the parrallel opamps by soldering one on top of the other into a more practical solution?
Near the table on the left side, I see an IcePower 1200AS2 amplifier. It seems to be a very interesting module. Could you tell me more about it and compare it to other amplifiers?
Which exact model op-amps used in 2/4/8 models? 🤔
OPA1612
The current draw on some of these is insane. Many preamp / DAC regulators max out at 500mA and provide power to multiple opamps and other components. The 'Brute Force 1' requires 290mA. Probably worth thoroughly assessing a power circuit's abilities before installing a few of these.
They sound insane as well, stunning
Hello Greg the Opp Amps look great nice heat sinks. I have a pair of Fosi V3 mono’s my understanding is I would only need 2 x Opp Amps per mono amp the 3rd opp amp fitted is used to convert the single ended input into balanced so no need to swap this OPP amp out or will changing this 3rd OPP Amp further improve the sound?
For me it's a bit like comparing record player cartridges. The V1 reminds me of the famous Denon DL 110. Natural and very good resolution. I like them all in their own way. Listened with quadral titan mk iv speakers. Switches modified in the crossover with Mundorf Capacitors for the good TH800. Its a legenary ribbon tweeters by Technics . Dac Playmate with v6 vivid and v6 classic. Funny that I can also hear the differences with Burson. Thanks for the introduction
Hi, can you test the Akliam lc5? I use them in my ZA3 and they sound great to my ears but I dont have other opamps to compare.
Already suggested several times, to date these LC5 are the ones I prefer too, I ordered the Hypersonic to compare them
Hi-so with this parallel arrangement-these have got to draw way more current-so this is approved for DACs and Pre’s but not power amps yes? But wait I am confused--you are using these in power amps (ZA3) not DACs or preamps. Have you tested them with the Fosi V3 monos? Maybe cannot use in the V3 monos because they are already challenged with heat generation/dissipation. What about with the ZD3 DAC? Will the Supersonic V1 or the hypersonic further tame the SABR 9039 "glare" or "sheen"?
I am listening on headphones attached to my laptop via Firefox.
I can't hear much difference between these --they all sound good. Would be interesting to compare them with the non-parralled version of the op amps, and vs the muses02 and the Sparkos.
From the slew rate (27 V/μs) and distortion I am guessing that they are all based on the OPA1612, except the SUPERSONIC-V1 which is based on the OPA1642 - 20V/μs. They are OK Opamps the OPA1612 is used in the Topping Pre90 for example, but they are too slow for audiophile use where the 150μS of the OPA627 and OPA828 reign supreme. Personally I would only use them for the filtering not amplifying stages.
I think the noise reduction is working like Summing Opamps together - whereby multiple Opamp circuits are designed in parallel with each other but with double the supporting discrete components (resistors/ caps) as well. In summing, both Opamps have the same function but any noise generated by one will be slightly different from the other and as a result when they are summed together it will be cancelled out.
From what I can hear it all sounds a bit average - I'd like to know what is the ADC audio interface you are using?
Because if that's got a load of meh opamps and ADC in it, that will be bottlenecking the sound we are hearing.
The muses02 has a slew rate of only 5V/muSec and lots of people like them including me. I have seen op amps advertising 150 V/muSec-doesn’t mean they sound great…
I think people tend to look most at: open loop gain, slew rate, noise. But I think bias current and degree of class A output operation should be more critical…
@@kineahora8736 Depending on genetic background many people don't have the ability to process high frequency sound detail in the brain. Its like 30% of people don't have an inner dialogue and another % can't visualise, or if they do its in black/ white not colour. To people who can't process those high frequency sounds the NE5532 sounds exactly the same as an OPA627 they simply can't discern any difference.
Hypersonic user here, no going back possible, the gap with all the opamps I tried discrete or not is HUGE from the first notes played.
@@fx-studio (1) I have never heard this about high frequency information
(2) my post was talking about slew rate- which has very little to do with high frequency Fidelity- slew rate is all about fast attacks and edge dynamics.
@@kineahora8736 Opamps with low Slew rate tend to sound "muddy" that's because they lack that fast response in the high frequency range.
funny to see how you compare devices on song with dynamic range of few dBs, i think any op amp can do it well in 7-8 bit audio resolution
The TPA3255 can handle up to 69Vdc Recommended is up to 53Vdc... however a fully charged LifePo4 = 57.6Vdc...
Will that ruin the Amps? (Voltage regulators for the Opamps for example? Assuming they run +/- 15Vdc)
I've just ordered the Hypersonic, curious to compare it with the opamp i prefer until now
My answer is bye bye other opamps
Your a genius, thank you.
I would like to see more about what looks to be some interesting power supplies you have there on my left.
This 1 is tough, I'm leaning toward v2 but not sure, i think i would need to hear 15 - 30s clips with time stamps of each to compare.
Will the V2 fit in all 3 sockets in a Fosi V3 Mono?
Supersonic V2 is my pick.
This is really interesting, I was a serious tweaker back in the eighties to the noughties and this has got me thinking. It's getting a bit like serious overclocking in the computer world. I'm half expecting water cooled amps at some point, LOL!
This video is very good, but since I don't have good headphones that can clearly hear both, I would like your help. I'm setting up a 4-way studio audio monitoring system and the amplifiers will be dedicated to each speaker.
I would like to insert discrete op-amps for each frequency range, preferably the ones that sound better and bring precision, clarity and fidelity to each frequency range.
The audio monitors will be used specifically for electronic music production.
For Bass:
For Mid:
For Mid High:
For Treble:
Dude, you're doing great things, BRAVO 👋👍
Very interesting, just one question. If one OpAmp runs barely warm why two needs substantial heathsink? Maybe do you add some polarization? Thanks!
This is a pretty cool idea!
If it requires heat sinks, there's nothing cool about it.
For the FOSI ZA3, what are your recommendations for the op amps you've already tested, from low to high? Thanks!
Hypersonics are wowww playing now in my Aiyima A07 Max
@@tofffsymagic1099you noticed a big difference?
I couldn't tell any difference between them,if there were,they were so subtle,that you would need to be a bat to hear it.
"But these are so good, they have a bandwidth of 35kHz!"
- family dogs hate this trick 😂
Hmmm. I could easily hear differences on my Toyota van audio system which is stock. Perhaps you should listen again with better equipment, headphones…?
With the Hypersonics arrived at home yesterday I can hear a difference compared to Muses, Bursons, Akliams and all the others opamps I've tried, and de sound quality gap is HUGE. These opamps are Excellent 👍🏻
@tofffsymagic1099 which bursons did you compare them with?
Did you test them with Fosi v3 mono? what opamps did you use to compare FOSI ZD3 & T+A DAC 200? Did you do it with open case? Pozdrawiam, Detektyw zakupowy ;)
For op amp comparisons, can you provide a line out feed rather than through your speakers? Your speakers are amazing but a line out feed would be awesome. Thank You.
I am currently in a noisy cafe so will listen to these later, but I think there's something about appealing to other senses when opamps start getting silly candy colors and shapes. I suspect people will get a preconditioned expectation bias based on looks and subconscious triggering of candy/fruit flavors. This colouring and shaping, if not out of necessity, has no place for internal components and costs extra money as part of design and manufacturing. I can therefore only suspect it's to intentionally play on subconscious bias cues.
its funny the people who are the most worried about bias are often the ones filled with judgements of others that subconsciously shape their view of the world
Totally true, but it's an industry... gotta make products that stand out visually for marketing purposes. It's up to consumers to make decisions that they're happy with. Problem with audio products is you can't really judge them before you've bought them, and the expectation bias then overrules any real observed qualities or lack of.
Counterpoint: This is a product aimed at an audience that likes to tinker and switch things up. Part of its "intended use" expands beyond "internal component not normally seen in operation," to "direct intractability is expected on an ongoing-if possibly infrequent-basis." The heatsink itself was already identified as a necessary element for improved component longevity and sustained performance. Being easy to identify and match up using color coding in a collection of components improves the User Experience (especially with their V1/V2 bundle), strengthens brand identity, and helps visually differentiate products within the lineup. The color anodizing of the heatsink is a minimal manufacturing expense over the existing bare metal component, so why not do it?
@waffle911 Why? Because unlike opamps like Sparkos which have a stabilization circuit to work in a wide variety of circuits to provide wider than typical compatibility, these (AFAIK) are just paralleled off-the-shelf opamps, and so firstly there's extra power supply demand, which there's no guarantee a circuit can take. Second, standard opamps behave based on the peripheral circuit components (resistor values and for stability and preventing oscillation, usually capacitors too) and the efficacy of these may not work when paralleling opamps. Third, if the thing doesn't oscillate and burn out (which is why huge chunky heatsinks probably are needed on the new 'designs') then yes there's increased current output, but again, follow-on parts of an I/V filter would have been designed around other electrical values and in the worst case something could fail, or converting that extra current to voltage and then using a buffer might result in clipping distortion. Overall, in my opinion, opamp rolling with these is playing pot-luck with the unit it goes into. If I am wrong and there's compensation circuitry added to these to be stable, and if something has been done to ensure they aren't going to damage the units they go into, then I am sure @VirtualHiFi can address it in a further video or their website. Based on my understanding of opamp electronics, opamp rolling is inadvisable unless using a very similar behaving opamp where the peripheral circuit would still give the same or similar gain, but perhaps more current output and less noise. But one would need to calculate compatibility and not blindly swap opamps for others. I think the same is true here if you wish to guarantee problem-free operation. Again, perhaps @VirtualHiFi can comment on whether they are supporting the practice of 'blind' opamp rolling, or advising people know enough electronics to correctly deduce if swapping for one of these new opamps is going to work, rather than just chancing it.
More transistors in parallel ===> more output current, hence, giving you greater drive to produce the output signal presented to the power amplifier's input stage. The sound output would be more dynamic, ease of sound reproduction. and a fuller sound. Another way is to have a CLASS A transistor or tube output stage, this was done before many years ago, but bulkier.
Viewers are conscious that sufficient or ample power in the sound chain produces excellent sound.
Covering the op=amp in catshit rather than old bubblegum is a marked improvement.
Very nice! Thanks for sharing.
How does overloading the power supply fix drive problems to amplifiers?
Most op-amps have output impedances of 100 ohms or less ... most next stages will have input impedances of 10k or higher ... that's a damping factor of at least 100 .... So I just can't see where this is either necessary or wise.
Cool. Love the innovation. Which is best sounding module that will still fit an Aiyima A70 stereo?
I have an Allen&Heath Mod2 mixing desk from 1972, do you think the op-amps would reduce noise and clean up the signal, would love to use the desk as Stem mixer (it has 16 channels with 16 monitor return channels, take off 2 monitor channels for master and in theory I could have a 30 channel audio summing with 16 channels with original CARNHILL Transformers and a simple EQ), I don’t know how many op-amps are on each channel, so do you do bulk discount? (Or be interested in working with me as a joint project?)
I think the power supply would need a major upgrade as well then if your op-amps are so hungry 🤭🤭🤭
Where are you based, I’m in Hannover, Germany
Space is limited in my ChiFi R2R DAC. I’m currently running a SS3602, which I like very much and sounds great. My other favorite is the Muses8920, which, ironically, delivers a much larger soundstage than the Sparkos. I’d like to try the Supersonic V1, but am concerned with the size. What are the length and width dimensions?
Don't be afraid to drill an opening in your device case or use it without if you don't have a cat or kids having fun around, I use the Hypersonics without the Aiyima A07 Max covers
Nice stuff. I'm very inclined to try them but I would need to know which one easily fit in which amp. It would be useful to have the info in the website, for example I have a fosi v3 at hand (in the past I bought some big op amps and had to sent them back cause I could not fit them).
You can test the large opamps without the amplifier covers, if you like their sound just drill a hole in the top of the case to fit them.
@@tofffsymagic1099 with these I'd be more worried if the fit horizzontally, the v3 has little capacitors all around the opamp socket
@@PaoloCaminiti you probably also need to use a socket extender, the V3 produce a lot of heat, I would drill a hole on the cover to avoid overheating as these opamps run hot
Want to order supersonic v2.
i'm very curious about your opamps, sparcos labs Muses01,02,03, ss3602, burson audio v7 vivid, burson audio v7 classic pro, are they superior to these high-end opamps?
Yes, hands down! The hypersonics are endgame opamps for me
@@tofffsymagic1099 i hope Muses01,02, 03, ss3602, burson audio v7 vivid, burson audio v7 classic pro, comparison videos with these high-end opamps will arrive soon.🤩
@@SERKAN_HOT34 Believe me you can order it you will not be disappointed, they sound way better than Sparkos, Muse, Burson V7, if not you have 30 days to return it. All the opamps I tried before are for sale
Guten Morgen, tolles Video, Danke. Kannst Du mir sagen welcher der vorgestellten OP Amps in das Gehäuse des Fosi ZA3 passen?
You say that it is better to listen via browser. In my case: W11 optimized for multimedia (reduction of JITTER generated in the CPU: ALU internal registers), Firefox -> JRiver MC 64 bits, which takes control of the audio via WDM driver. Firefox with uBlock Origin to avoid the advertising inserted by RUclips (or free Spotify).
The sound from Firefox is better than in Chrome-based browsers.
Hello, for the ZD3, it's possible to use Supersonic V2?
Thanks.
Emilie.
I'm ready to purchase one
i'm fortunate that i did
I can't hear much of a difference, it all sounds the same to me. Perhaps compare them with a single version of the Opamp, and Sparkos and Muses02.
I compared supersonic v2 to muses01 and sparkos SS3602 on my Aiyima A70. Destroys them both. May end up trying hypersonic now too.
Ciekawy projekt! Będę musiał przetestować.
PS. mieliśmy okazję uścisnąć sobie ręce na AVS. Pozdrawiam więc ponownie :)
i couldn't hear much of a difference. but i didn't download the video and didn't use my Hi-X55 headphone.
this reminds me of an elektor low power amp project where they used something about 25 NE5532 op-amps or so as output stage.
My dac streamer has a transformator on the output❤
The V1 reminds me of the Muse 02 only a bit punchier. The V2 was the one that made my ears perk up first. When it switched to the V2 it was so drastic that even across the room I could immediately hear the difference. The V2 reminds me of the really nice sounding Kenwood intergrated amps that where Dual mono internal construction with everything being discreate componets no op amps from 1970's early 1980's. I might like to get 2 of those V2's and 2 hypsonics!
The Hypersonic was amazing and that is what I will be ordering for sure. I have a wife and 3 sons and Christmas is awfuly close so might have to wait. I would like to get 4 or more to have on hand but will likely just order 2. I like it all. I like good highs, mids and lows and the ability to be very dynamic and quick when it is required. I like a clarity but not at the cost of texture, sound stage, and warmth. The hypersonic seemed to have it all while still being very balanced.
The Brute Force was absolutely incredible sounding!! In the early 1990's I owned a McIntosh tube amp and a set of Sansui Mono Block amps and the Brute Force reminded me of those with a good source that was well mastered and very dynamic. It had it all the highs, lows and mids as well as incredible seperation and sound stage with lots of punch. It made the amp sound like an entirely different amp. I used to run really powerful amps and then only run them in the 1wpc to 20wpc range into very effecient speakers and that is what the Brute Force reminded me of. It was as if the amp suddenly developed more dynamic head room and power. It was hard to believe it was the same speakers and amp! Too bad it is so power hungry and generates so much heat!
Nice!
My real-time impressions. Magnat MA 900 (mod) in Direct OFF (JJ 12AT7 preamping). Convolution with brightness at 6.5kHz, +0.3dB, Q=2. KEF Q100 5.25" coaxial (mod) in near field. With Kimber Kabnle 8PR cables, now with 5 mm cotton rope inside (as Danny Richie suggested weeks ago and does with his cables, with similar geometry to Kimber's).
05:29 - Cherry - Hara Noda
Super Sonic V2 - the best, more musical
08:29 - Falconeer - Lovren
Super Sonic V2 - the best, more musical
10:29 - World Goes By - Houses On the Hill
Super Sonic V2 - the best, more musical
13:29 - Love You For It All - Daniel Gunnarsson
Super Sonic V2 - the best, more musical
16:29 - Hotel Lalo - Harry Edvino
Super Sonic V2 - the best, more musical
Super Sonic V2 - 10 points (more bass, highs OK)
Super Sonic V1 - 8 points (more highs, too much with your speakers)
👉Hypersonic and Brute Force one - UNREAL SOUND, not credible. It is the same thing I notice in most 24/192 vinyl rips, too much spatiality, not credible, liking it better in 24/96 FLAC 0. Sometimes it is not like that, I have to decide in each rip
Explain what you understand about convolution or is this another word you overheard in the ladies toilet
@@nicoras8803 It is the best way to equalize the frequency response, especially if it is already very good (KEF Q100 at 30º from the listener, as happens in almost all coaxials: avoid direct focus, 0º). With rePhase I make the minimum adjustments in amplitude and... PHASE, minimizing it.
Up to 300-400 Hz our brain does not appreciate the phase change when equalizing, so a PEQ works very well. At higher frequencies we do appreciate it, so it is very convenient to minimize it. rePhase allows you to create the convolution file that you will then import into a good software player such as JRiver Media Center (64 bits better).
From the PEQ (included in the JRiver DSP) you can adjust the bass of each channel, the distance of the speakers if you are not in the center of the listening triangle... and effects for when the recording is not of great quality or to play series or movies.
The phase or time shift (JITTER), however small, is noticeable by our brain (it was thought not but now we know it is).
One of the problems with cheap class D amplifiers, such as the Fosi / TPA3255, is the phase shift starting from 1 kHz. With electronic music we will not notice it but if we listen to quality recordings with real instruments and voices without autotune we will. The new and expensive Hypex, Purifi, Orchard Audio... have reduced this phase deviation to 20 kHz (almost non-existent in class A and AB). Orchard Audio is directly 0 to 20 kHz.
This is a new product and needs better visualization during sound test. Hyper/SuperSonic V1/V2 means nothing to us when we can’t even see which opamp to relate to and what type/tech it has during sound demo. All we saw was a pretty carousel and names. Just skipped through it as usually…
did you ever heard something about a blind test?
@ 😆😆😆👍
if you go to his web page it has this video on it and you can listen while checking out each of the products
Go for the Hypersonics it's the endgame opamp for me, immersive and addictive sound no going back possible to discrete Sparkos, Burson, Akliam for me by far, I was sceptical until they arrive at home, gorgeous sounding
@@tofffsymagic1099 interesting ... where did you swap the opamps in a DAC/AMP? I’m getting a J3 DAC from Geshelli Labs this month, going to try both Sparkos ss3602 and Burson V7 Vivids, but probably will end up sticking to the 2590 pro opamps from Sparkos, they’re too perfect and have been my go to. LMK if you want me to describe it.. 😉
I really liked the sound of the Muse S02 in your Fosi V3 mono op-amp swap video. I wonder how they would sound in a Supersonic V2 configuration.
The Muses 8920 is also very good.
Mine arrived today, they bury deep everything I heard before, Muse, Sparkos, Burson, Akliam...
@@tofffsymagic1099 Which ones did you end up buying?
@@ChicagoRob2 Hypersonics I can not stop listening music
. What did u install them in
Paralleled operational amplifiers are not an invention of our time. Although design-wise, no doubt...
С классом "D" это пустые хлопоты.
Gimmicks. But he has a marketing sense for it. Space Lego opamps. Still gimmicks in this case :)
It seems sketchy without showing actual measurements.
The little matter that normally room temperature chips suddenly need heat sinks should tell you how sketchy it is.
The huge leaps in current draw are almost certainly due to the class ab outputs in those chips passing high current from one chip to the next... back feeding current into the outputs. How can that be a good thing?
Hypersonics sound so gorgeous, no go back possible for me
@@Douglas_Blake AND, if the temporal mismatch is in an applicable point of the output-drivers pairs transitions then the resulting current-spikes on the power rails/ground will increase noise in the very uppermost audio-freq ranges... it may actually be the source of some of the 'airy' quality. They are getting those current spikes also because of the current-draw is passing through those single-pin conductors and the LR factor will result in a greater spike than if they were soldered into a pcb with a ground plane power return path.
Unless there is realtime (not digitally averaged) differential probing of the power rails against a very stable ground reference, this cannot be measured/discerned from some 'magic' high frequency improvement... human ears don't work that well (sorry, to all those golden ears out there).
My background includes tech-work/design on pipe organs, high caliber test equipment (Tektronix in the 80's), the first AED (medical electronics where S:N reigns supreme), then 11 years helping creating hardware/software simulation and noise analysis gear in the CAE/SDE field. And now I've got a Dr in front of my name (dentist) w/full-faculty credentials working with med-compromised folks including some of those asthmatic kids who truly CAN hear in the 30kHz range... something the rest of us generally cannot do. And at age 65 I began to study human voice production and hearing. in parallel with working with my 'regular' patients.
co za bzdury, litości. Kolejny etap wyciągania kasy od ludzi.
v2 best
So you're telling me, by using 8 opamps to increase the current capability of the whole thing by 8, it's now capable of driving 256 poweramp input stages at once, instead of only 64? 😂😂
Seriously, that's such an exercise in futility. Input stages are so high in input impedance, any bog standard opamp is severely overpowered for the purpose already.
Automatically voids original warranty of an amp or any other device, plus risk of over heating or worse. Space Lego gimmicks in this case but Grzesiu has a sense for creativity and marketing :)
oh no, voiding a warranty of a chinese 100$ dac/amp, its the end of the world
Bye bye discrete opamps, they sound better than everything I tried before, the hypersonics are endgame opamps for me, and the sound difference isn't tiny at all
I’m starting to think op amps are the snake oil of the digital HiFi sound market.
Nope of all the things in the hi if world op amps are one of components that really sounds different and can make a true improvement in sound reproduction or make it worse.
A decent poweramplifier doesn't need to be controlled by the pre-amplifier, it will listen to it's output signal and amplify it fully faithful and therefore fully transparent with the exception of the power needed to drive the loudspeaker correctly. I don't like your useless products certainly when you scratch of the type numbers of the OpAmps you use as I have seen on your own website. That is a shame in it self and show that none of your customers can trust you and your products. It's a discrase.
Hypersonics playing here now, they bury deep all the opamps I tried before, endgame opamps for me
@@tofffsymagic1099
My condolences. Waste of your resources.
tbh I usually really love your videos, and I know creating a video is hard work, but this was not a good video explaining what you tried to accomplish from a scientific perspective, it feels kinda amature-ish, would love for a more in-depth detailed video on these opamps, before I'm tinkering with something that can ruin my speakers or device..
The hypersonics are making my speakers sound like never before, endgame opamps for me from huge margin, like Greg said don't use it in closed enclosure or with the device case, their heatsinks do their job
@@tofffsymagic1099 thanks for the response and nice to see you excited about that!
@@igoryakunin685 you are welcome, in my case my amplifiers stay cold even after 12 hours of non stop use, the only parts that get hot are the opamps heatsinks.
Would like to test "Hypersonic"in my XD05PRO via dip8 extenders :D very curious how these compare to V7 Burson or Sparkos SS3602 🫣
Same here, order placed!
Everyone seems to think the world of the sparkos ss2590 -the problem is those are 2x size of the ss3602…
@@kineahora8736 it's no more a problem once you drill a hole in the case of your device to fit them and use dip8 socket extenders if needed
I stopped watching you since you haven't replied to my messages.
This is a new product and needs better visualization during sound test. Hyper/SuperSonic V1/V2 means nothing to us when we can’t even see which opamp to relate to and what type/tech it has during sound demo. All we saw was a pretty carousel and names. Just skipped through it as usually…