This is a superb video.Demonstrates the different instruments beautifully. Good on you.I wish you would publish data from Japan samples. And data from west coast seawater.
Though a simplification, this analogy is actually really good and quite dead on. The sun is also a form of radiation, though the light is non ionizing, which has the chance of causing cancer with a risk which increases with dose. I often use alcohol or smoking, but sunlight is actually a very good analogy! Thanks!
Visible light on its own does not cause cancer. It is the ultraviolet B and C rays which can cause cancer and premature aging (UVC is ionizing). The sun is also a source of X-rays, neutrons, and high levels of gamma rays due to the nature of literally being a sustained fusion explosion burning at almost 6,000 degrees Celsius in a vacuum.
Correct, for sure. If you DO NOT know the energies you are dealing with, you should use purely counts per period of time (USA: CPM, SI: c/s). If you know the energy: Grays are the amount of absorbed energy. Seiverts are the amount of absorbed energy accounting for the differences in body part and energy time. It can get VERY complicated and typically approximations are used, such as the energy units on a Geiger counter... not correct, but not massively far off... perhaps +/- 20%
My smallest scintilaltor measures about 10cm x 15cm x 5cm and weighs about 250g (about 8oz). That tiny unit gets about 400 CPM background and can tell you dose (based on actual energy), dose rate, count rate, and identify isotopes (fully gamma spectroscopy). It's can detect Cs137 in water down to 160-ish Bq/L and runs off of a single AA battery for 1000 hours. So, it really depends on what you buy.
60 c/s is actually quite normal for a sensitive scintillation counter. A better HPGe detector would get even more. Light would be a problem, but my unit is quite intact and gets about 4 c/s when in the lead shielding of my detection chamber. Opened to my office, it gets the higher reading.
Geiger counters are useful tools. Typically, the more sensitive the better, but you must also consider cost vs utility. In short, if you are going to run a home lab or something like that, you might want an Inspector or some other "pancake" style model. For the more casual user, the SOEKS sounds fine. My first GM was similar to that unit. I have never used that type, but it looks reasonably rugged and easy to use too.
I have not been measuring rain. I have measured dozens of rain storms and snow from various places and always I find the same result. I have found a little Cs137, once, and the rest were radon washout. In fact, the Cs137 find required a week of cool down before I could detect the Cs137 due to all of the radon washout masking it. I guess I am board with testing the rain over and over and always getting the same results.
My unit cost me around 4,500, but I have put another 300 to 500 into it. Call it 5,000 USD. Beejeweled sells an MCA and will even hook you up with a scintillation detector for a quarter of that. I prefer the UCS, which is probably the best of the entry lab-grade units. The next leap is the HPGe detectors, but you need a minimum of 10k for those. There are spectrometers for all types of particles, nearly. A neutron one isn't cheap.
The number of CPM is related and proportional to the size of the detection area. Id you had a detector with a 10 sq. foot coverage area it would probably show 10,000 CPM. That would not mean it was more accurate or better. Are there any situations where being able to detect alpa radiation would be important? What could they penetrate? Beta and Gamma are the dangerous ones. If the CRM had a bigger detection window it would give a better count.
Beta and gamma are the more penetrating types, alpha is the most ionizing, especially when consumed. So alpha detection is useful for checking food and water for contamination.
The Am241 in a smoke alarm can get loose and onto your floor, clothes, hands, etc. Many geiger counters will not readily detect trace Am241, but your body will be displeased if it absorbs any. Also, it is illegal in the USA to dismantal the source.
This is false. The A-241 Source is not only tiny, it is also solid metal, not at all a powder. On top of that, the radiation emitted in gamma and beta combined is less that 1.1uSv/hr for the entire source and is incapable of causing a noticable increase in cancer likelihood unless consumed. In canada, dismantling the source is legal and the source is contained inside a tiny button, which is smaller than a 1x1 flat lego brick for comparison.
I don't doubt Fuku stuff can be in rain ( I have detected it before ) but a small puff disperses over a very large area quickly. For example, let's say we take 2 km^3 of air and disperse an activity of 100 MBq in it of Cs137. That is a dose rate at one meter of 7.6 uSv/hr (gamma). Now, if it evenly disperses, it is now 0.1 Bq/m^3 lol and that is only one km^3. You need epic release to detect in the USA.
I totally agree with you. The GM is not better or worse than the Scintialltor... it would be like saying a hammer is better/worse than a screw driver. They are different tools, which sometimes overlap. My point is that you just don't use a GM for isotope ID when you have no idea what the isotope is. In your case, a good tick from a lens tell you, 9 out of 10, that you have thorium (you do have quite the collection). I do love my Inspector EXP+ Geiger counter. =)
DU starts our chemically purified and contains only uranium. The emissions are alpha, gamma, and x-ray. As the decay chain slowly rolls along, you will start to get beta emitters too. After a few months, you will detect most forms of decay (though all of the beta and most of the total emissions are from daughters and not DU): Alpha Cluster decays (heavy ions) Beta- (never beta+ or double beta) and secondary emissions too: Fissions Neutrons protons X-rays gamma rays
Hello, Please read the info box. =) I do NOT argue that Geiger counters are good or bad. They are a different sort of tool. In short, you do not attempt to perform radio-isotopic identification with a Geiger counter. It is the wrong tool for such a job. I have an Inspector EXP and I love it, but my scintillator rules the lab. Note, I show an actual Fukushima fallout soil sample at12:20 for comparison.
The scintillation counter and the MCA come from SpectrumTechniques com They are a bit expensive but they can identify specific isotopes, unlike a Geiger counter. The unit is the UCS30. I have a video about it: watch?v=o2m8yotzIoE
The question of safety is a tough one which I am not qualified to answer. It is sort of like asking how much alcohol can you safely drink. I can tell you that I have read loads of papers, discussed this with experts at length, and personally feel safe holding a 37,000 Bq source for a few minutes in my hand each day. But then again, some drink heavy and some drink lightly... I would doubt that a few hundred CPM on a common Geiger counter would be of much concern, externally... but I am not a doc.
My dog chewed up my Soeks and it works just fine. Goes crazy with some sort of false 32Kreading on CFL bulbs though. Do all those types do that? Paid less than 150 bucks off Ebay for mine brand new. Can't beat the price
Normally, I detect energy levels using one of my gamma spectrometers (my wife thinks I own too many... and she is wrong lol). I was sort of supposing a means, but not constructing a hypothesis. A scintillator (alpha, beta, or gamma) is the best method for determining energies. My primary tools are NaI(Tl)'s, but I also use CsI(Tl)'s for various measurements. My LEG-X is actually a CsI(Tl) lol Just think: cesium detecting cesium (sort of... actually Barium 137m).
My CRM100 is weak. I have wondered if it needed some sort of repair. Perhaps I will contact International Medcom today and see what can be done. It does use an LND 712 tube.
...cont I am sure you could determine energy to at least something like +/- 100 keV of the actual energy using something like an Inspector EXP (just one) and thin sheets of lead, perhaps 2 mm thick. It would be difficult and there are other problems, such as isolating specific isotopes from each other. As an academic experiment, I would suspect it could work.
The scintillator tube is very sensitive to light, so if there is a crack in the aluminum, no matter how small, that would give you very high and false readings. This might be the cause of your 60c/s readings, which I suppose to be false as your other detectors would give the same readings if there was a radiation source nearby.
Curious; I have a ceramic breeding cone for Discus fish. Tested it with a Mazur 9000 and it puts off about 7uR/hr above the background level. Not very much, but the purpose of the cone is for Discus fish to lay eggs on. Is this safe? I ask because the discus fry kept failing to make it. They would deform and die. I personally think the cause is something other than radiation from the ceramic. e.g. Water quality issue, but I never did figure out the problem. Any input on if that small amount of radiation could be a problem?
How many counts per minute can people "safely" absorb? p.s thank you for you compliment on the geiger counter/ion tube, i cant reply to comments right now.
Well... yes, but keep in mind that you face a few challenges: You would need to apply sheilding in small increments and allow plenty of time between each change to determine good approximation of the change in transmission intensity (photons which make it through). This means short lived isotopes are out of the questions. I would suggest perhaps 10 to 50 layers, but that would mean your ability to determine energy, your resolution, would be very wide and not acurate. Cont...
I have a tiny pocket scintillatior with a USB connection. One evening when I did not have something to do I scanned the pedestrian zone of a small town with granite paving stones. Just having it in the pocket it mapped the stone clearly...
Send your CDV in for service at KI4u in Gonzales TX. Also, the CDV is really for harsh battlefield service and is designed to endure rough handling. I believe Victoreen never expected them to be reliable Alpha sniffers. They are Cesium and Strontium sniffers mostly. Also, it is intended ti seek out point source isotopes in clothing, on surfaces, within 8 - 10 inches. It is not really a background meter. Still, you presentation is high grade. Thanks for sharing.
Hi antiprotons, could you make a video on building your own scintillation counter as it's a project I am currently doing. I love your videos and am a nuclear physics enthusiast myself.
Scintillator can't detect alpha particles? How long does they last? How it compares in performance to regular GMC-300E plus geiger counter? I'm considering buying Belarusian dosimeter Radex Obsidian or Radiacode 102, is it reliable most importantly for nuclear fallout survival?
graph 12:59 of fukushima soil sample, how did you know each peak what is isotope? and what program that you were using to show this graph? if you compare between device, did you consider efficiency of each detector?
Ok, now i know very little about detectors and such, but i did think of something that may allow a Geiger counter or two Geiger counters to approximate the energy of a particle. For one GM tube:You use Gamma attenuation to based on a source at a fixed distance, looking at count with a shield and without a shield, for Two GM Tubes:You would use two tubes with different sensitivities to various energies to approximate the energy by looking at the variations in Counts between the two. Could it work
Well... any Geiger counter is really nice to have. I adore scintilliators, but they typically see only gamma. Some see beta+gamma or alpha, but not all three. A Geiger counter is cheap (sorta) easy to use, and detects lots of stuff. I don't think the end is coming, but if you are a survivalist (I am not) you would do well with a rugged Ludlum model 3 + model 9 pancake Geiger tube. Otherwise, an Inspector is nice.
Also, wouldn't a scintillator be a bit bulky and hard to manipulate in case of survival use? I know about those CDV's modified to fit a scintillation probe made by electro-neutronics, but I believe they were made for CD trained personnel and research use.
so i dont really know anything about this stuff, i just got interested a few days ago and think it would be fun to go hunting for radioactive things, what would i want for under $300 to just walk threw the desert and find something?
You store that Cs-137 source inside that lead shield? I doubt is really needed at all and seems quite thin, plus you are also creating bremsstrahlung radiation, so maybe you are even getting more dose from it than if you didn't used it at all.
Counts are by no means a way to determine a dose... it depends on the radiation type, the tissue that is irradiated, for how long etc... The proper unit is Sievert...
If the c/s reading varies so widely from the least sensitive to the most sensitive device, how can you really know what the true strength of the radiation source is? How can you tell if you need to walk away or run away? It seems to me if I had the Inspector Plus, I'd always be running away, and if I had the less expensive model I'd always walk. Great video. Thanks!
+Les Mack that is an excellent point. We become used to the sensitivity of your devices. It should be noted that none of these devices are capable of showing readings for anything high enough to actually be of significant immediate danger. None of these sources is particularly dangerous and even if I maxed out my units, it would not be that big of a deal. The readings required to cause you immediate danger would be tens of thousands of times higher than this.
antiprotons What do you mean by that answer? What about exposure time and ingestion? I would be inclined to think that these measuring devices should have attached to them a particular knowledge base on the part of the user. Has the background radiation changed on our planet since nuclear testing and the introduction to the environment due to nuclear sources caused by humans, which includes nuclear power plants? Has cancer rates increased worldwide due to this? These are important questions.
Sounds like a silly question but what do you think of the little SOEKS device? Cheap but i think it picks up C137.. Also I got 2.5 microseiverts on the plane.
Geiger counters can't detect alpha at all without a pancake probe, so the CDV-700 reaction is exactly what I expected. You can hook a pancake probe up to those though.
Great videos. A small error though in this one: at 8:48 you said that the geiger counter can't detect the alpha at all instead of "scintillator" can't detect it all. Hey, at least I pay attention
Under normal circumstances a geiger counter CAN'T detect alpha though, he's right. A geiger counter needs a special pancake probe in order to detect alpha, and the CDV-700 he is using did not have one. Also, there are different types of scintillators. The scintillator in this video is specifically a gamma scintillator. Po-210 is not a gamma emitter, it is purely an alpha emitter, so a gamma scintillator is not going to detect it. The CDV-700 couldn't detect it because it only had a beta probe. The other 2 could detect it because they did have pancake probes. A scintillator is a totally different tool, it's more designed for analyzing samples and determining the exact energy of what is coming out. It's like comparing a scalpal to an axe, they both have their uses.
It is a true and proven fact that radioactive dust fell on the USA, and other places, from Japan. This was detected by many universities, labs, and other reputable sources. The problem is that some people seem to think that impossible amounts of it rain on us each day. There wasn't enough material released to cover as much as they suggest and be detectable. And even when the amounts could be dangerous, the GM still has trouble detecting them. People like to be afraid. It's in our nature.
Well, firstly you would scale the readings as you do on a CDV700 (x1, x10, x100) or on a digital unit, which shows a read x 1000. My unit isn't really made to be used like a Geigr counter. It is housed in a lead testing container and connects to a multi-channel spectrum anlayser (large metalic box with lights, wires, etc) for processing. Here is a video of a scint. being used like a GM: /watch?v=bcbSGoQ7Hg0 Here is one, more like mine: watch?v=h0dF2FUo5WU
We are using a Tracerco T407 (CPS) with GM probe and T202 (μSv/hour) at work.Our contractor is using a Ludlum 3000 connected to a scintillator probe and is getting considerably higher values in CPS than we are. Can someone explain me why?
As for your airplane trip, I don't doubt you did get such a reading. The radiation from space, quite intense, is attenuated by our atmosphere. As you go up, the air density drops rapidly. After only a few thousand feet you have passed much of the air surrounding the Earth, even though there is much more to go. Many people have taken GM's on plane for decades and always, they get high readings (400-800 CPM, or more). Just don't scare the passengers. =)
There is a so called "Food Radiation Detector (version 3)" on Amazon but doesn't go into detail as to what it actually is (Geiger counter or scintillator). Are you aware of this unit and are you able to comment on it?
...do you knwo what probe has similar factor from cpm to microsievert like the sbm-20? i read the sbt-11a should similar..do u know something? ( i want to screw aside an external probe on my gm)
But if the gm counter sees nothing like the cdv-700 probe mabey a count in about 10 seconds and how much it will be with a Scintillator but is it then stil save ? beceas its reads so much more cpms then the geigecounter
There is a good video on this from a kid with a CDV700. ruclips.net/video/4_ROmwQCmkA/видео.html My CDV700 is calibrated, so I don't want to mess with the cal until it drifts. These guys will do it for you for a fee: www.radmeters4u.com/calibrate.htm
I was debating between buying a Scintillator and the Inspector EXP+, I have about 1100 $ I like the fact that the Scintillator is extremely sensitive but I don't like the idea about being blind to a third of the spectrum (alpha). How do I distinguish with the Inspector, between Alpha and Beta release if I'm unsure of the contamination that in in the item I'm testing? Also does the inspector allow for data collection? If, not is there away to do so, or would you recommend something else? Thank you again for making these videos extremely informative
The new (be careful to get the new one) Inspector EXP is just the Inspector USB model with an external probe. I thought the external probe was nice, but it got in the way... now I use my normal Inspector USB much more (I own both). I will make your a quick video this weekend showing how to do it using an Inspector. What model scintilltor? It really is a hard decision you have... it would depend on the scintillator model, for me.
Here is another model of Ludlum that I was viewing. It comes with a Scintillator I believe it has the ability to detect Alpha particles, due to the screen mesh in the front, along with probe and data logger. The full purpose of this is to conduct radiological research on the west coast as a personal project. I am also asking my College for assistance with another Geiger Counter to offer additional readings from a completely separate device. I will also be purchasing boro-sillicate vials w/ rubber stoppers to collect samples. What do you think? Below is the direct URL address www.ebay.com/itm/LUDLUM-2350-DATA-LOGGER-44-9-DETECTOR-44-16-SCINTILLATOR-180-14-SAMPLE-HOLDER-/161328265279?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item258fe9f83f
Wyndom westcott-ferguson Interesting unit, for sure. Keep in mind that you will be unable to separate natural radiation sources from man made. This means a beach sand sample could be radioactive due to natural minerals or from Fukushima. You need a gamma spectrometer to determine the difference.
I think you are talking about my Gamma Spectrometer. That is a device used to detect and identify radioactive material. Geiger counters can detect but cannot identify.
+antiprotons can you help me is the polish army counter a good counter to Buy . I can Buy it very cheap . I think its like 50 years old. thanks up front
You can make a neutron detector... I cannot recall how to do so... but I believe it consists of a chemical which absorbed the neutron and quickly decays, they decay being captured. I hide from neutrons. Nasty little things!!! Have you asked Bionerd23? She might know more about neutrons. (she's on youtube). I'm all about the gammas =)
+/- 20% is still quite optimistic, the analog geiger I have has (well, had, when it was new in 1968 :P) a base error of +/-20%...if it's operating outside of 15-25°C, it can have an additional error of +/-30%... All geigers with an analog integrator are going to horribly inaccurate, that's why they are so cheap... Quite a shame that we don't see cheap diode-based detectors, since they are perfomance-comparable with geigers, yet offer the benefits of all-solid-state...
You must have used hudereds of detectors then. There are at least hundreds, if not more. I've used dozens, but not hundreds. As for the source, I do not need a glove for a seal source... but people look at my videos and watching me using a glove might encourage them to. Proper lab safety is important (though not needed for the sealed source).
I am no survivalist, but after a nuclear blast... I'd want three things: 1. Polimaster 1704M 2. Ludlum 12 + (44-2 AND 44-9 detectors) 3. Inspector+ + Xtream Boot I'd do well with those. If I could have ONLY ONE... I'd take the first, the polimaster.
very informative thanks, just wish it was,nt necessary for me to have to familiarize myself with this sort of thing but i think it prudent to learn a little about radiation these days! i see some think you talk too much but pay no attention to them..you just keep talking and i,ll keep learning.
Thanks! I was tired of attending those meetings anyways (joke). I do talk too much, but that's who it is. I am about to step outside and measure my water. I might post two videos... one short one showing the facts only (3-5 min) and an epic one, like normal, containing everything^2 (30-45min) =) I actually have a mild form of Tourette's syndrome (diagnosed by Johns Hopkins U.). I develop transient ticks. One has always been my speech. =) (actually true)
Perhaps that was it. Regardless, it is totally nonsense. I would agree that a GM is cheaper, and extremely useful too! I would never give up my GM. It's there when I need it and fast, but I trust my scintillator for accuracy and isotope detection. =)
Sorry man, I had to delete some of my posts because I may have gotten a little into detail on something I shouldn't have. Just know your assessment on the number of detectors is a little on the high side... I don't test a lot of the cheaper consumer market detectors, only the ones that are actually going to be used for real search and/or research
So basically: the geiger counter tells you if there's radiation there, and the scintillator tells you in depth of what kind of radiation and where it came from and how much of it over a period of time?
Sorta... A basic scintillation counter is just like a Geiger counter in that it only measures that radiation is present. A scintillator connected to a device called a multi-channel spectrum analyzer. This can tell you what energies the photons hitting the scintillator have, and you can determine the nuclide from that.
Prices? Let me give you some average costs: Simple Geiger counter: $50 - $300 Quality Professional Geiger counter: $550 - $1300 Scintillation Counter: $1000 - $5000 DIY Gamma Spectrometer (to ID nuclides): $1500 and up. Lab grade Gamma Spectrometer (to ID nuclides): $5000 and up.
you are reaching the limit of your counters. at a high rate the dead time makes your count rate kind of meaningless. p.s. how did your gamma spectrum read the americinium? thought you said it could not see alpha's
David L Burggraf What type of radiation is given off in depleted uranium? www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/dod/du_factsheet_4aug98.htm "Unfired depleted uranium munitions are encased in thin metal jackets that seal in alpha and beta particles, and allow only extremely slight gamma emissions which fall well below regulatory health and safety limits."
I have not been watching cameras. I really have little time for such stuff. Like I said, I fully agree that stuff from Fuku has/is raining on us at various rates. In fact, before Fuku it rained from old weapons testing fallout, etc. My point is that (to me) this is not a new thing and I just do not find it interesting enough to test. Additionally, most of what falls now is below my detection thresholds (less than 1 Bq/kg of Cs137). Certainly below a Geiger counter.
If the fact that the Scintillator is able to actually identify individual isotopes doesn't give away its superiority, Then one lacks fundamental understanding of radiation, and detection.
Next time when you make a informative video make sure you have a script and check All your facts first! Because you are stumbling around and you are being un acute in your explanation!
![SCINTILLATION MECHANISM - | NaI | [Explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/f_VioPizSy4/mqdefault.jpg)
totally loving it... very comprehensive man.......
This is a superb video.Demonstrates the different instruments beautifully.
Good on you.I wish you would publish data from Japan samples.
And data from west coast seawater.
Though a simplification, this analogy is actually really good and quite dead on. The sun is also a form of radiation, though the light is non ionizing, which has the chance of causing cancer with a risk which increases with dose.
I often use alcohol or smoking, but sunlight is actually a very good analogy! Thanks!
Visible light on its own does not cause cancer. It is the ultraviolet B and C rays which can cause cancer and premature aging (UVC is ionizing). The sun is also a source of X-rays, neutrons, and high levels of gamma rays due to the nature of literally being a sustained fusion explosion burning at almost 6,000 degrees Celsius in a vacuum.
Correct, for sure.
If you DO NOT know the energies you are dealing with, you should use purely counts per period of time (USA: CPM, SI: c/s).
If you know the energy:
Grays are the amount of absorbed energy.
Seiverts are the amount of absorbed energy accounting for the differences in body part and energy time.
It can get VERY complicated and typically approximations are used, such as the energy units on a Geiger counter... not correct, but not massively far off... perhaps +/- 20%
My smallest scintilaltor measures about 10cm x 15cm x 5cm and weighs about 250g (about 8oz). That tiny unit gets about 400 CPM background and can tell you dose (based on actual energy), dose rate, count rate, and identify isotopes (fully gamma spectroscopy). It's can detect Cs137 in water down to 160-ish Bq/L and runs off of a single AA battery for 1000 hours.
So, it really depends on what you buy.
Sir, that was a great video. I want a scintillator ! How much do they cost? Thanks !
60 c/s is actually quite normal for a sensitive scintillation counter. A better HPGe detector would get even more.
Light would be a problem, but my unit is quite intact and gets about 4 c/s when in the lead shielding of my detection chamber. Opened to my office, it gets the higher reading.
Geiger counters are useful tools. Typically, the more sensitive the better, but you must also consider cost vs utility. In short, if you are going to run a home lab or something like that, you might want an Inspector or some other "pancake" style model. For the more casual user, the SOEKS sounds fine. My first GM was similar to that unit. I have never used that type, but it looks reasonably rugged and easy to use too.
Beautiful equipment.
I have not been measuring rain. I have measured dozens of rain storms and snow from various places and always I find the same result. I have found a little Cs137, once, and the rest were radon washout. In fact, the Cs137 find required a week of cool down before I could detect the Cs137 due to all of the radon washout masking it.
I guess I am board with testing the rain over and over and always getting the same results.
My unit cost me around 4,500, but I have put another 300 to 500 into it. Call it 5,000 USD.
Beejeweled sells an MCA and will even hook you up with a scintillation detector for a quarter of that. I prefer the UCS, which is probably the best of the entry lab-grade units. The next leap is the HPGe detectors, but you need a minimum of 10k for those.
There are spectrometers for all types of particles, nearly. A neutron one isn't cheap.
The number of CPM is related and proportional to the size of the detection area. Id you had a detector with a 10 sq. foot coverage area it would probably show 10,000 CPM. That would not mean it was more accurate or better. Are there any situations where being able to detect alpa radiation would be important? What could they penetrate? Beta and Gamma are the dangerous ones. If the CRM had a bigger detection window it would give a better count.
Alpha detection is good for food products and checking contamination, since alpha is a much bigger internal hazard.
Beta and gamma are the more penetrating types, alpha is the most ionizing, especially when consumed. So alpha detection is useful for checking food and water for contamination.
The Am241 in a smoke alarm can get loose and onto your floor, clothes, hands, etc. Many geiger counters will not readily detect trace Am241, but your body will be displeased if it absorbs any.
Also, it is illegal in the USA to dismantal the source.
This is false. The A-241 Source is not only tiny, it is also solid metal, not at all a powder.
On top of that, the radiation emitted in gamma and beta combined is less that 1.1uSv/hr for the entire source and is incapable of causing a noticable increase in cancer likelihood unless consumed.
In canada, dismantling the source is legal and the source is contained inside a tiny button, which is smaller than a 1x1 flat lego brick for comparison.
I don't doubt Fuku stuff can be in rain ( I have detected it before ) but a small puff disperses over a very large area quickly. For example, let's say we take 2 km^3 of air and disperse an activity of 100 MBq in it of Cs137. That is a dose rate at one meter of 7.6 uSv/hr (gamma). Now, if it evenly disperses, it is now 0.1 Bq/m^3 lol and that is only one km^3. You need epic release to detect in the USA.
the same tube that is used in the German Gamma-scout models, a LND 712.
Those are very small tubes, so they can be a little unaccurate.
I totally agree with you. The GM is not better or worse than the Scintialltor... it would be like saying a hammer is better/worse than a screw driver.
They are different tools, which sometimes overlap.
My point is that you just don't use a GM for isotope ID when you have no idea what the isotope is. In your case, a good tick from a lens tell you, 9 out of 10, that you have thorium (you do have quite the collection).
I do love my Inspector EXP+ Geiger counter. =)
DU starts our chemically purified and contains only uranium. The emissions are alpha, gamma, and x-ray. As the decay chain slowly rolls along, you will start to get beta emitters too. After a few months, you will detect most forms of decay (though all of the beta and most of the total emissions are from daughters and not DU):
Alpha
Cluster decays (heavy ions)
Beta- (never beta+ or double beta)
and secondary emissions too:
Fissions
Neutrons
protons
X-rays
gamma rays
Hello,
Please read the info box. =)
I do NOT argue that Geiger counters are good or bad. They are a different sort of tool. In short, you do not attempt to perform radio-isotopic identification with a Geiger counter. It is the wrong tool for such a job.
I have an Inspector EXP and I love it, but my scintillator rules the lab.
Note, I show an actual Fukushima fallout soil sample at12:20 for comparison.
The scintillation counter and the MCA come from SpectrumTechniques com
They are a bit expensive but they can identify specific isotopes, unlike a Geiger counter. The unit is the UCS30. I have a video about it: watch?v=o2m8yotzIoE
That was very helpful. Thank you
The question of safety is a tough one which I am not qualified to answer. It is sort of like asking how much alcohol can you safely drink. I can tell you that I have read loads of papers, discussed this with experts at length, and personally feel safe holding a 37,000 Bq source for a few minutes in my hand each day. But then again, some drink heavy and some drink lightly...
I would doubt that a few hundred CPM on a common Geiger counter would be of much concern, externally... but I am not a doc.
My dog chewed up my Soeks and it works just fine. Goes crazy with some sort of false 32Kreading on CFL bulbs though. Do all those types do that? Paid less than 150 bucks off Ebay for mine brand new. Can't beat the price
Normally, I detect energy levels using one of my gamma spectrometers (my wife thinks I own too many... and she is wrong lol).
I was sort of supposing a means, but not constructing a hypothesis. A scintillator (alpha, beta, or gamma) is the best method for determining energies.
My primary tools are NaI(Tl)'s, but I also use CsI(Tl)'s for various measurements. My LEG-X is actually a CsI(Tl) lol Just think: cesium detecting cesium (sort of... actually Barium 137m).
Like motorcycles, number desired is n+1 where n = current number owned.
My CRM100 is weak. I have wondered if it needed some sort of repair. Perhaps I will contact International Medcom today and see what can be done.
It does use an LND 712 tube.
...cont
I am sure you could determine energy to at least something like +/- 100 keV of the actual energy using something like an Inspector EXP (just one) and thin sheets of lead, perhaps 2 mm thick. It would be difficult and there are other problems, such as isolating specific isotopes from each other.
As an academic experiment, I would suspect it could work.
then what is the use of a tube that goes nuts even at normal background radiation?
The scintillator tube is very sensitive to light, so if there is a crack in the aluminum, no matter how small, that would give you very high and false readings. This might be the cause of your 60c/s readings, which I suppose to be false as your other detectors would give the same readings if there was a radiation source nearby.
Curious; I have a ceramic breeding cone for Discus fish. Tested it with a Mazur 9000 and it puts off about 7uR/hr above the background level.
Not very much, but the purpose of the cone is for Discus fish to lay eggs on.
Is this safe?
I ask because the discus fry kept failing to make it. They would deform and die.
I personally think the cause is something other than radiation from the ceramic. e.g. Water quality issue, but I never did figure out the problem. Any input on if that small amount of radiation could be a problem?
thats too low to make any problems with the fish
How many counts per minute can people "safely" absorb?
p.s
thank you for you compliment on the geiger counter/ion tube, i cant reply to comments right now.
Have you tried the balloon experiment to capture radon progeny and show how radon is present in every room?
Well... yes, but keep in mind that you face a few challenges: You would need to apply sheilding in small increments and allow plenty of time between each change to determine good approximation of the change in transmission intensity (photons which make it through). This means short lived isotopes are out of the questions. I would suggest perhaps 10 to 50 layers, but that would mean your ability to determine energy, your resolution, would be very wide and not acurate.
Cont...
I have a tiny pocket scintillatior with a USB connection. One evening when I did not have something to do I scanned the pedestrian zone of a small town with granite paving stones. Just having it in the pocket it mapped the stone clearly...
Send your CDV in for service at KI4u in Gonzales TX. Also, the CDV is really for harsh battlefield service and is designed to endure rough handling. I believe Victoreen never expected them to be reliable Alpha sniffers. They are Cesium and Strontium sniffers mostly. Also, it is intended ti seek out point source isotopes in clothing, on surfaces, within 8 - 10 inches. It is not really a background meter.
Still, you presentation is high grade. Thanks for sharing.
Hi antiprotons, could you make a video on building your own scintillation counter as it's a project I am currently doing. I love your videos and am a nuclear physics enthusiast myself.
Scintillator can't detect alpha particles? How long does they last? How it compares in performance to regular GMC-300E plus geiger counter? I'm considering buying Belarusian dosimeter Radex Obsidian or Radiacode 102, is it reliable most importantly for nuclear fallout survival?
Good explanation!
graph 12:59 of fukushima soil sample, how did you know each peak what is isotope? and what program that you were using to show this graph?
if you compare between device, did you consider efficiency of each detector?
What's the best tool to have on hand if you just want to know whether your area is contaminated and you should stay in the house?
Ok, now i know very little about detectors and such, but i did think of something that may allow a Geiger counter or two Geiger counters to approximate the energy of a particle. For one GM tube:You use Gamma attenuation to based on a source at a fixed distance, looking at count with a shield and without a shield, for Two GM Tubes:You would use two tubes with different sensitivities to various energies to approximate the energy by looking at the variations in Counts between the two. Could it work
Well... any Geiger counter is really nice to have. I adore scintilliators, but they typically see only gamma. Some see beta+gamma or alpha, but not all three. A Geiger counter is cheap (sorta) easy to use, and detects lots of stuff.
I don't think the end is coming, but if you are a survivalist (I am not) you would do well with a rugged Ludlum model 3 + model 9 pancake Geiger tube. Otherwise, an Inspector is nice.
Also, wouldn't a scintillator be a bit bulky and hard to manipulate in case of survival use? I know about those CDV's modified to fit a scintillation probe made by electro-neutronics, but I believe they were made for CD trained personnel and research use.
so i dont really know anything about this stuff, i just got interested a few days ago and think it would be fun to go hunting for radioactive things, what would i want for under $300 to just walk threw the desert and find something?
You store that Cs-137 source inside that lead shield? I doubt is really needed at all and seems quite thin, plus you are also creating bremsstrahlung radiation, so maybe you are even getting more dose from it than if you didn't used it at all.
Counts are by no means a way to determine a dose... it depends on the radiation type, the tissue that is irradiated, for how long etc...
The proper unit is Sievert...
If the c/s reading varies so widely from the least sensitive to the most sensitive device, how can you really know what the true strength of the radiation source is? How can you tell if you need to walk away or run away? It seems to me if I had the Inspector Plus, I'd always be running away, and if I had the less expensive model I'd always walk.
Great video. Thanks!
+Les Mack that is an excellent point. We become used to the sensitivity of your devices. It should be noted that none of these devices are capable of showing readings for anything high enough to actually be of significant immediate danger. None of these sources is particularly dangerous and even if I maxed out my units, it would not be that big of a deal. The readings required to cause you immediate danger would be tens of thousands of times higher than this.
antiprotons
What do you mean by that answer?
What about exposure time and ingestion?
I would be inclined to think that these measuring devices should have attached to them a particular knowledge base on the part of the user.
Has the background radiation changed on our planet since nuclear testing and the introduction to the environment due to nuclear sources caused by humans, which includes nuclear power plants?
Has cancer rates increased worldwide due to this?
These are important questions.
Yes. You can overreact if background radiation is a bit higher where you live. Still, awareness and caution is a good thing.
Sounds like a silly question but what do you think of the little SOEKS device? Cheap but i think it picks up C137.. Also I got 2.5 microseiverts on the plane.
Is it just me, or did the 137Cs cause a buzz when you held it close to the camera at 18:51?
What’s the link for the pancake inspector geiger counter
Geiger counters can't detect alpha at all without a pancake probe, so the CDV-700 reaction is exactly what I expected. You can hook a pancake probe up to those though.
Great videos. A small error though in this one: at 8:48 you said that the geiger counter can't detect the alpha at all instead of "scintillator" can't detect it all. Hey, at least I pay attention
Under normal circumstances a geiger counter CAN'T detect alpha though, he's right. A geiger counter needs a special pancake probe in order to detect alpha, and the CDV-700 he is using did not have one. Also, there are different types of scintillators. The scintillator in this video is specifically a gamma scintillator. Po-210 is not a gamma emitter, it is purely an alpha emitter, so a gamma scintillator is not going to detect it. The CDV-700 couldn't detect it because it only had a beta probe. The other 2 could detect it because they did have pancake probes. A scintillator is a totally different tool, it's more designed for analyzing samples and determining the exact energy of what is coming out. It's like comparing a scalpal to an axe, they both have their uses.
@@StormsparkPegasus This posting has apparently been so far back that I can't even recall the question that I asked about.
But... when testing a small sample of DU, you mostly see Alpha, beta, x-rays, and some gamma rays.
why do you say that smoke detector sources are not good?
It is a true and proven fact that radioactive dust fell on the USA, and other places, from Japan. This was detected by many universities, labs, and other reputable sources.
The problem is that some people seem to think that impossible amounts of it rain on us each day. There wasn't enough material released to cover as much as they suggest and be detectable. And even when the amounts could be dangerous, the GM still has trouble detecting them.
People like to be afraid. It's in our nature.
Well, firstly you would scale the readings as you do on a CDV700 (x1, x10, x100) or on a digital unit, which shows a read x 1000.
My unit isn't really made to be used like a Geigr counter. It is housed in a lead testing container and connects to a multi-channel spectrum anlayser (large metalic box with lights, wires, etc) for processing.
Here is a video of a scint. being used like a GM:
/watch?v=bcbSGoQ7Hg0
Here is one, more like mine:
watch?v=h0dF2FUo5WU
We are using a Tracerco T407 (CPS) with GM probe and T202 (μSv/hour) at work.Our contractor is using a Ludlum 3000 connected to a scintillator probe and is getting considerably higher values in CPS than we are. Can someone explain me why?
Interesting video, thank you
As for your airplane trip, I don't doubt you did get such a reading. The radiation from space, quite intense, is attenuated by our atmosphere. As you go up, the air density drops rapidly. After only a few thousand feet you have passed much of the air surrounding the Earth, even though there is much more to go.
Many people have taken GM's on plane for decades and always, they get high readings (400-800 CPM, or more). Just don't scare the passengers. =)
Tom where did you buy your gamma scintillator from?
Do you know what tube is in the CRM100 for sure? It seemed awfully weak.
There is a so called "Food Radiation Detector (version 3)" on Amazon but doesn't go into detail as to what it actually is (Geiger counter or scintillator). Are you aware of this unit and are you able to comment on it?
...do you knwo what probe has similar factor from cpm to microsievert like the sbm-20?
i read the sbt-11a should similar..do u know something? ( i want to screw aside an external probe on my gm)
What type of radiation is given off in depleted uranium?
D Graf alpha and gamma
But if the gm counter sees nothing like the cdv-700 probe mabey a count in about 10 seconds and how much it will be with a Scintillator but is it then stil save ? beceas its reads so much more cpms then the geigecounter
How do you calibrate a geiger counter (CDV 700) or where do you go to get it calibrated?
There is a good video on this from a kid with a CDV700. ruclips.net/video/4_ROmwQCmkA/видео.html
My CDV700 is calibrated, so I don't want to mess with the cal until it drifts. These guys will do it for you for a fee: www.radmeters4u.com/calibrate.htm
I was debating between buying a Scintillator and the Inspector EXP+, I have about 1100 $ I like the fact that the Scintillator is extremely sensitive but I don't like the idea about being blind to a third of the spectrum (alpha).
How do I distinguish with the Inspector, between Alpha and Beta release if I'm unsure of the contamination that in in the item I'm testing? Also does the inspector allow for data collection? If, not is there away to do so, or would you recommend something else?
Thank you again for making these videos extremely informative
The new (be careful to get the new one) Inspector EXP is just the Inspector USB model with an external probe. I thought the external probe was nice, but it got in the way... now I use my normal Inspector USB much more (I own both).
I will make your a quick video this weekend showing how to do it using an Inspector.
What model scintilltor?
It really is a hard decision you have... it would depend on the scintillator model, for me.
Here is another model of Ludlum that I was viewing. It comes with a Scintillator I believe it has the ability to detect Alpha particles, due to the screen mesh in the front, along with probe and data logger. The full purpose of this is to conduct radiological research on the west coast as a personal project. I am also asking my College for assistance with another Geiger Counter to offer additional readings from a completely separate device. I will also be purchasing boro-sillicate vials w/ rubber stoppers to collect samples. What do you think?
Below is the direct URL address
www.ebay.com/itm/LUDLUM-2350-DATA-LOGGER-44-9-DETECTOR-44-16-SCINTILLATOR-180-14-SAMPLE-HOLDER-/161328265279?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item258fe9f83f
Wyndom westcott-ferguson
Wyndom westcott-ferguson Interesting unit, for sure. Keep in mind that you will be unable to separate natural radiation sources from man made. This means a beach sand sample could be radioactive due to natural minerals or from Fukushima. You need a gamma spectrometer to determine the difference.
Very nice demonstration, but @ 18:29 Gloved hand to hold detector, ungloved to pickup and move Cs 137 sample, ROFL!
That sample is totally sealed and effectively harmless to hold. The glove was for other things and barely needed.
could you tell me anything about repairing a bicron analyst pgm probe. or someone who can
You should just make this a video response to the jeff rense show where a certain journalist was interviewed on his opinions on Geiger science.
What is that big guy can show the graph? I but a geiger counter but that machine amaze me.
I think you are talking about my Gamma Spectrometer. That is a device used to detect and identify radioactive material. Geiger counters can detect but cannot identify.
Thanks!
what is your opinion on the smart phone counters?
It very much depends on the counter. They are not heavy duty, but seem fine for the casual user. Any specific one you had in mind?
+antiprotons can you help me is the polish army counter a good counter to Buy . I can Buy it very cheap . I think its like 50 years old. thanks up front
You can make a neutron detector... I cannot recall how to do so... but I believe it consists of a chemical which absorbed the neutron and quickly decays, they decay being captured.
I hide from neutrons. Nasty little things!!! Have you asked Bionerd23? She might know more about neutrons. (she's on youtube).
I'm all about the gammas =)
im now smarter than yesterday
will your hand glow in the dark? :)
Do you know where I could get a GM tube for my victoreen CDV-700?
I need one for a PRI Model 107C
+/- 20% is still quite optimistic, the analog geiger I have has (well, had, when it was new in 1968 :P) a base error of +/-20%...if it's operating outside of 15-25°C, it can have an additional error of +/-30%... All geigers with an analog integrator are going to horribly inaccurate, that's why they are so cheap...
Quite a shame that we don't see cheap diode-based detectors, since they are perfomance-comparable with geigers, yet offer the benefits of all-solid-state...
lol No, that was me making the noise. :)
You must have used hudereds of detectors then. There are at least hundreds, if not more. I've used dozens, but not hundreds.
As for the source, I do not need a glove for a seal source... but people look at my videos and watching me using a glove might encourage them to. Proper lab safety is important (though not needed for the sealed source).
I am no survivalist, but after a nuclear blast... I'd want three things:
1. Polimaster 1704M
2. Ludlum 12 + (44-2 AND 44-9 detectors)
3. Inspector+ + Xtream Boot
I'd do well with those. If I could have ONLY ONE... I'd take the first, the polimaster.
2:12 It's too expensive! I like the CDV 700 more
very informative thanks, just wish it was,nt necessary for me to have to familiarize myself with this sort of thing but i think it prudent to learn a little about radiation these days! i see some think you talk too much but pay no attention to them..you just keep talking and i,ll keep learning.
Poor CRM100 not getting any love :(
Nice video though, comparisons are fun to watch.
hmmmmmmmmmmmm, maybe, it started working again.
How did I not die from what?
I need to go to this mans house 🤣
Thanks! I was tired of attending those meetings anyways (joke). I do talk too much, but that's who it is.
I am about to step outside and measure my water. I might post two videos... one short one showing the facts only (3-5 min) and an epic one, like normal, containing everything^2 (30-45min) =)
I actually have a mild form of Tourette's syndrome (diagnosed by Johns Hopkins U.). I develop transient ticks. One has always been my speech. =) (actually true)
Perhaps that was it. Regardless, it is totally nonsense. I would agree that a GM is cheaper, and extremely useful too!
I would never give up my GM. It's there when I need it and fast, but I trust my scintillator for accuracy and isotope detection. =)
Sorry man, I had to delete some of my posts because I may have gotten a little into detail on something I shouldn't have. Just know your assessment on the number of detectors is a little on the high side... I don't test a lot of the cheaper consumer market detectors, only the ones that are actually going to be used for real search and/or research
So basically: the geiger counter tells you if there's radiation there, and the scintillator tells you in depth of what kind of radiation and where it came from and how much of it over a period of time?
Sorta... A basic scintillation counter is just like a Geiger counter in that it only measures that radiation is present. A scintillator connected to a device called a multi-channel spectrum analyzer. This can tell you what energies the photons hitting the scintillator have, and you can determine the nuclide from that.
Prices? Let me give you some average costs:
Simple Geiger counter: $50 - $300
Quality Professional Geiger counter: $550 - $1300
Scintillation Counter: $1000 - $5000
DIY Gamma Spectrometer (to ID nuclides): $1500 and up.
Lab grade Gamma Spectrometer (to ID nuclides): $5000 and up.
you are reaching the limit of your counters. at a high rate the dead time makes your count rate kind of meaningless.
p.s. how did your gamma spectrum read the americinium? thought you said it could not see alpha's
HELLO, VERY VERY NICE VIDEO THANKS, JUST DON'T FORGET IT IS NOT GOOD TO KEEP SOME OF SAMPLES CLOSE TO EACHOTHER,
but you just did
David L Burggraf
What type of radiation is given off in depleted uranium?
www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/dod/du_factsheet_4aug98.htm
"Unfired depleted uranium munitions are encased in thin metal jackets that seal in alpha and beta particles, and allow only extremely slight gamma emissions which fall well below regulatory health and safety limits."
It's mainly alpha and beta with a few gamma.
Goddards Journal brought me here.
I have not been watching cameras. I really have little time for such stuff. Like I said, I fully agree that stuff from Fuku has/is raining on us at various rates. In fact, before Fuku it rained from old weapons testing fallout, etc. My point is that (to me) this is not a new thing and I just do not find it interesting enough to test. Additionally, most of what falls now is below my detection thresholds (less than 1 Bq/kg of Cs137). Certainly below a Geiger counter.
If the fact that the Scintillator is able to actually identify individual isotopes doesn't give away its superiority, Then one lacks fundamental understanding of radiation, and detection.
Smoke detectors have a trace amounts of Americium-241 in them. RUclips the Nuclear Boycott about a kid who build his own nuclear reactor.
Super mega dork.
Well, nice to meet you!
Since we are introducing ourselves, I am a super mega nerd (very similar)
Ha, Ha !
ruclips.net/video/TFi5bLrbBJ4/видео.html una radiografia con la pechblenda di marie curie
Next time when you make a informative video make sure you have a script and check All your facts first! Because you are stumbling around and you are being un acute in your explanation!