I love the fact that Stoicism is not about just talk but the philosophy of action. I see many people say things like "The world is coming to an end." "The world is broken!" and then do nothing about it. I don't care how smart they are, if you don't do anything about it. I want to contribute to this society to make it better in anyways. Hope there are more people willing to do the work instead of talking. Cheers Ryan and Tom!
@@AberrantArt agreed. That's another area we could physically chip in! I see lots of people *talk* about being supportive but the action is not there. I'm guilty myself sometimes(also believe I've been clinically depressed for a long time) but I'm very aware and I'm working on it. All we can do is lead by example.🤘🤘🤘
Sooooo excited for this !! As someone who can say stoicism truly changed my life for the better , I have been waiting on this for a long time . To anyone reading this , do yourself a favor and learn about stoicism. It will help you stay balanced in life and keep your composure during all kinds of stressful situations. Cant stress how beneficial it is , research for yourself !🧠🧘🏽♂️
1:51:50 At the end Ryan says, "I love talking with you. It's so much better than other podcasts where you kick around bullshit...." So true. This is why Tom has one of the best podcasts - zero small talk. These guys go big.
Agree Ungloo. Tom likes to dive deep into into the intellectual realm of human understanding, it makes sense that Ryan enjoy this special conversational moment. If you watch Ryan on other people shows, he is passionate and can go on days talking about the human condition.
Biggest “learning” for me was your words about aligning behind goals to move companies, and given today’s culture, the country forward. Profound and easily actionable.
"If they can force you to do something you don't want to do, it is because you don't know how to die." This is an amazing story Ryan! Thank you Tom for putting this together!
Thanks Tom and Ryan! One of the best talks I’ve heard. Perfect timing - to be lead and mentored (online) by men with strong values and goals, empowering and helpings others, including women, like me. I’m going through a lot - always - and stoicism, these talks, the books and journaling are guiding me on my journey to becoming who I am again, and keeping me on course. Thanks again for the strength, courage, and wisdom you lend so graciously with your time and energy.
Fantastic! (And still listening) Kept it going during my trip to the gym. I felt like these discussions are oxygen in my soul! Thanks for being brave and talking about our WHOLE world! 🌎
Hey Tom, interview Dan Crenshaw, former Navy SEAL congressman and author of Fortitude - American Resilience in the Era of Outrage. Talk about a total badass!
Both these guys are Masters in their fields and the glaring common thing that I'm getting from both of them is their student mindset. Amazing podcast. Thank you.
Gosh! You two are so knowledgeable and it is very enjoyable for me to be able to see this perfect format allowing ideas to bounce back and forth. Such a shame we cannot have a true democrat and a true republican candidates have this sort of healthy discussion.
Thank you Ryan for bringing your perspective to the podcast. I am from South Africa and apartheid ended just over 2 decades and we currently have the biggest inequality gap in economically in the world. I am in my 30s and when I started working I thought the playing field was leveled (because apartheid was over) and if I got my qualifications and worked extremely hard that would be enough. But I am seeing that the injustices are still systemic. People need to recognize that these are real barriers even though the discriminatory laws were abolished. I see people of color striving, proving and trying to excel everyday, like me, and the physical and emotional exhaustion from jumping through these systemic hoops is real. This is not an issue that can be solve by being individually exceptional, we need to recognize the injustices and uproot the systematic root causes, collectively.
I just picked up Mr. Holidays book yesterday. I’ve read every book, and Each one is more amazing than the next. I forget if it was Holiday or Greene that got me hooked to this channel but one of them did, and I’m so grateful for it. I’ve learned quite a bit in my quest for a higher learning. It’s a wonderful path that never ends but branches out to other beautiful paths. Ty
"I'd rather live under a regime that's passing laws and passing polices that I disagree with, but I think they're being done for good reasons than my fantasy country as a shield for a bad actor." Yeah, go say that to the people that died under Mao or even now in 2020's North Korea, or even the people in China living under a government that's enforcing social score systems. All of those things were being done by "good reasons" but let's not forget what the path to hell is paved with.
Yeah i agree that "Some of the worst things in the world are done with the best of intentions". I think people are so obsessed with predicting something that they would never stop and think is it really necessary to go down that rabbit hole?
Tom masterful interview. Great job of really posing the conversation past the basics and adding tangible insights we can apply to help us toward our goals.
Thank you for this episode! It is everything I've been feeling put into words, and has given me comfort knowing I am not the only one with this outlook.
Ryan Holiday needs to go to South Africa to see what the previously disadvantaged have done to that country. Ryan is trying to correct the past when he should be focusing on the present and future.
It seem Ryan is searching to approval and feels a lot of guilt. His ideas are very pure and he outlines what the challenges where. He doesn't give any solutions. Because his solutions are to gift the some of previously disadvantaged people positions and roles they perhaps don't qualify or deserve when competing on an equal platform.
People like Ryan are very dangerous in positions of power. Because they either become tyrants trying to mold society into their own perfect picture. Or when they have completely destroyed the fabric/values/ideals of what has allowed them to have these grandiose utopian visions he can just walk away. Shrug it off. Blame others for it's failings. Leave his society with the divisions and fractures he was trying to fix.
F*** yeah!!! You have given me hope that our society can improve! Thank you for showing us, the people on the sideline who don't want to get involved, the importance of speaking up!
For those watching this podcast and interested in a bit more insight of “what happened? And how did we get here” type of answer, I suggest you watch the latest Brett Weinstein episode on the Joe Rogan podcast. They go pretty deep with their analysis and perspective. It’s a good listen.
Yes, this and I think it's worth checking out Spiral Dynamics - especially stage blue, orange, and green. Search on youtube for "leo - spiral dynamics" and I'm sure you'll find some interesting info.
Thanks Tom for the interview with my Stoic Guru who introduced Stocism to me through his books. I would have listened to Ryan"s book Daily Stoic at least 50 times. 🙏❤️Selfhelpchampion
Great discussion today and great way to start the day. I love the importance of independant and critical thinking. I go to George Akerlof & Kranton (Berkeley Economists) for content on this and prefer the term "Identity Economics" to "Identity Politics". Identity economics captures the idea that people make economic choices based on both monetary incentives and their identity: holding monetary incentives constant, people avoid actions that conflict with their concept of self.
Love to you both guys, Thank you for All you´ve been sharing. I´ve been following you (Ryan) more years than Tom. Gentlemen you are Unique in your stuff.. Thanks Again-
Ryan-you mentioned the tension between complicity and acceptance and the founding fathers of our country. Montaigne, living in the time of the French Renaissance, was friend to a young man, Etienne de la Boettie who wrote an essay at the age of seventeen called “Discourse on Voluntary Servitude.” Written as an argument against Machiavelli’s politics in “The Prince” he shows that assent to power is given by the people, who will suffer the fears and abuses only while suffering is bearable, until the suffering becomes too intolerable and reaches a tipping point. Jefferson wrote in the Declaration this same essential concept, and it is so similar in concept that I cannot help but think it might be the original source. The tension is broken by enough people suffering from the same affliction with the stoic resolve to address it. This was the American Revolution, Civil Rights and women’s equality which rose to challenge the establishment to live up to the promise of equality and freedom that the people were ready, willing and able to fight for. Power cedes nothing without a demand. Looking at the nation now, we have for so long, taken our freedoms for granted that it is eroding without people even noticing, but the people alive today-women and blacks-who remember that in our lifetimes, those promises have only jut been made real, are the ones who, like Cato, fully comprehend the significance of the protections we risk losing.
Lots of people say slavery shouldn’t happen, and yet, you have people go to grocery stores or some other businesses and they expect waiters/cashiers or pick the lowest positions in, to be their slave, and they feel power and entitlement to act badly. They have to respect all people, no matter their status and position in society or business.
Holy shit! Brilliant conversation! From the mention of character to greatness to self-worth.... damn! I have been working on bringing something into the world for about 30 years w/out recognition or financial gain. That’s ok bc the delay gave me more to work with. And now, I’m bringing. Mind you, I’ve been following stoicism for a while. Philosophy is my gig but I’ve not applied it to my relationship with myself ... interesting 🧐 anyway, I cannot thank you enough for this talk or what you both bring to the planet... I appreciate you both
I enjoy some of Ryan's stuff however he's coming across as a bit 'holier-than-thou' these days. He lost me the moment he launched into his (very personal) Trump rant and then got all wokey-woke with his characterisation of people as either 'good' or 'bad'. It's that sort of pious, reductionist thinking that's facilitated the mess we're now in. I.e. "If you don't whole-heartedly support BLM etc or question anything about it then you're an evil person!!" Anyway having said all that, I still got something out of this conversation, so thanks as always, Tom.
@@antoinel2279 I'm in the UK mate, I don't have a particular interest in American politcs, it was just an observation. For someone who prides himself on Stoicism and rational thinking etc, calling Trump "a f**cking moron" doesn't seem to be a very measured, objective analysis.
@@igg3937I dont have particular interest in american politics either as I'm canadian. Though, to me it is a pretty "measured, objective analysis" of the person we are talking about here.
@@antoinel2279 Ha, ok man whatever. It wasn't a particularly classy moment from Ryan is all I'm saying and I don't think it was appropriate or necessary to bring in his her personal political feelings on this platform.
I find stoicism a bit difficult to implement, as they tell you the goal, but often not the necessary steps to attain it. It would be nice to be unshaken by the vicissitudes of life, but how can most people actually achieve that? People try to intellectualize problems away all the time, but rarely ever succeed... As it is often stated in Buddhism, "pain is a given, suffering is a choice". I'd really like to see some pragmatic "path" leading to the goals of stoicism!
The whole point is you're not going through avoid the pain. So pick a goal that means something to you because the pain is guaranteed. The success is not.
I got the same problem, but somehow I'm doing my own path. What has helped me a lot is to aknowledge my emotions, if you suppress them, they're gonna come back at you really hard. So find a way to channel and let them out on a regular basis, it can be through journaling,meditation, therapy, talking with someone you trust and won't judge you,etc. Once you have this aspect somehow regulated (it's an everyday work,but it gets easier with time), you can start working on your rational and more pragmatic practices
Time-Tested Self-Improvement Principles the Buddha clearly says “ life is suffering “ and I’m living the dream. You gotta figure your shit out, there is pragmatic plan that fits all. No complaining no explaining, dude.
It’s a practice. You get better at it over time. You try every time and sometimes you succeed remain stoic but other times you’ll fail to remain stoic. Then over a lifetime you master it
I thought I was the only one who thinks this way about politics. This idea needs to be vocalized. It will only help and unite - not hurt and segregate.
Very funny R L89. Yes Tom usually like to interrupt people and get in his talking points. Tom, please hold whatever point you have, and let your guest talk. 80% guest talking, 20% Tom talking would be a good ratio in my opinion.
58:34 "I live in a ranch in texas, ergo I'm not a leftist." I love Ryan, been following his work for years and read all his books (except his last one on the Lives of the stoics), his mentor Robert Greene is a very well respected writer as well, but owning a ranch doesn't mean you're a right or left winger. Didn't he run away from NY due to it's heavy politics, and other problems I'm sure, onto the more spacious and conservative state of TX? I can't help but smell a hint of hypocrisy in some of his politics, but to each his own specially in the political and religious realm, I'm just bringing something up that rang a bit weird to me.
People are so funny when it comes to politics. He doesn’t even realize that many “leftists” have left their states to states with less people and terrible policies (California being the most obvious where they are fleeing in droves to Texas). As if where you live is a sign of your politics. When someone says they’re not a leftist and then goes through all the typical leftist talking points and then props up Joe Biden and say he’s “the moderate we need,” you know the hypocrisy is flowing. It couldn’t be any easier in 2020 to admit that the choices are two less than ideal candidates for one reason or another. I actually haven’t met a single Trump supporter that doesn’t have a few things they don’t like about Trump and will say it out loud. Almost every Biden supporter I know basically thinks he walks on water and if you just simply ask them to admit something Biden does or has done it’s just “oh he’s that awkward grandpa.”
13:45 - about how the more "identities" people say they have, reminds me of 48 laws of power, eg Never Commit To Anyone, and Assume Formlessness. It's a good point that you don't want to pigeon hole yourself or let people work you out so quickly.
Two of my heroes . Keep telling the truth regardless of your personal beliefs/politics. Tired of all the hate promoters, wanna be bs alpha_males/fake machoness, which is IMO is the antithesis of Stoicism.
Alyways consider what it is in your life that you have controll over, and what you don't. Then act on the things you can change, and remove the rest from your thoughts.
He's a civilian so I will cut him a break but this matters, you don't "win" the metal of honor, the metal of honor is bestowed upon you for your actions. You don't ask for it, you don't seek it out. It's important.
Your videos are great Tom but Ryan's rant about Trump was not only disappointing but tiring and not very stoic. I felt the need to abandon it after 23 minutes.
Thanks for the reply @@dinagimmelli4693. It's not so much about an inability I may or may not have to handle truth or even fabrications regarding Trump. My comment instead deals with how I have become super exhausted with the non-stop Trump bashing that is everywhere. I am far more interested in learning about and practicing stoicism, which is the actual topic of the interview. I am equally tired of the never ending Biden bashing from the right. I wish that we could all transform and redirect some of the negative energy into finding a little bit of passion for being kind to one another and applying the principle of charity rather than the passion for tribalism and division that has emerged in this world we currently live in. I'm just really tired of it. Anyway, I hope you have a great day Dina.
This whole thing has been great. A philosophy of action vs a philosophy of talk. This was a conversation between two of the great kind this conversation has been about!
I resonate with Holiday's point about the xenophobes being scared of change. OTOH, I think this plays into "future shock" problems of rapidly evolving morality systems. I don't think the problem is so much that the rules have changed, as that they are rapidly changing - and so no one knows what the rules are. Also - what a great idea re: collective vs. individual i.e. in terms of stoicism. When are you resigned to your fate vs. taking action in the world? This gets to the serenity prayer - how do you have the wisdom to know what is changeable? I suspect Tom B. would suggest that all things are - which is a powerful belief system.
That’s because we are looking for ourselves not materialistic shit..material goods are great! We all can agree on that. But it’s important to remember not to use these temporary goods to dictate our inner world/inner happiness.
Love and respect for these two guys; in fact, I have all of Ryan's books and follow Tom religiously. However, Ryan, you make a flawed argument at best and a ridiculous idiotic attack at worst against President Trump. First of all, I will not call you a socialist just because I disagree with your point of view as you mentioned that other people have done so. That is your right, and I respect the right to your opinion, and base on the fact that you keep writing books and continue to be paid to do so, instead of giving away your work for free to the masses, it shows that you have some appreciation for capitalism. You not voting for President Trump because he is "Moron," and a "Bad Person" comes across as an ill-founded tantrum, so the guy is not charismatic or friendly; these are not the talents you are required to have to be President. I will cast my vote for the candidate that will implement policies for the betterment of the whole Nation rather than cater to any single self-interest or ethnic group. President Trump has demonstrated his resolve to place the United States of America and its citizens' interests first above all else, that makes him the most qualified person for the job. Ryan, I invite you to promote and foster an environment where individuals can engage in a real dialogue about the issues [Political or Not] that are tearing our country to pieces. Rather than to go on groundless tirades about Mr. Donald Trump not paying his bills, belonging in a Shakespeare play, and something about a road needing repairs and him not wanting to help fix it..... Why don't you collect your thoughts and come up with something of substance and edifying instead of making useless statements that only aggravate the current situation.
His words and thoughts are quite shallow and immature when it comes to politics and especially Trump, right? Surprising because he's such a good writer and is wise in other ways.
Yes all of this... Very Sam Harris like. It would not be AS big an issue if he did not prop up Biden while doing so. Someone who says racially disparaging things often, inappropriately touches young girls and women and has serious cognitive decline. These are not opinions, these are video verifiable facts and enough of them to make a feature film. To be in denial of that is very hypocritical. I feel like it should be pretty easy for someone like Ryan to say in the 2020 election that there are two less than optimal candidates but he chooses Biden because of x, y and z.
in his example about the communal road, Trump would have cleared it, paved it, cleaned it, added lighting to it, and yes, probably had a plaque installed with his name on it, and perhaps found a way to do it paying the least taxes possible by following tax grey areas, as ALL businessmen do, (ehm, ehm,.amazon..) But definitely, the *opposite* of what Ryan said.
I love the fact that Stoicism is not about just talk but the philosophy of action. I see many people say things like "The world is coming to an end." "The world is broken!" and then do nothing about it. I don't care how smart they are, if you don't do anything about it. I want to contribute to this society to make it better in anyways. Hope there are more people willing to do the work instead of talking. Cheers Ryan and Tom!
It's difficult when people are in a state of depression.
@@AberrantArt agreed. That's another area we could physically chip in! I see lots of people *talk* about being supportive but the action is not there. I'm guilty myself sometimes(also believe I've been clinically depressed for a long time) but I'm very aware and I'm working on it. All we can do is lead by example.🤘🤘🤘
ㅑ
Sooooo excited for this !! As someone who can say stoicism truly changed my life for the better , I have been waiting on this for a long time . To anyone reading this , do yourself a favor and learn about stoicism. It will help you stay balanced in life and keep your composure during all kinds of stressful situations. Cant stress how beneficial it is , research for yourself !🧠🧘🏽♂️
Looking at you two young men from afar, I realize that indeed, there is hope for America and indeed the world. Stay courageous.
"The Pocket Guide To Making Stuff Better" is one of the best books out there on getting better over time.
1:51:50 At the end Ryan says, "I love talking with you. It's so much better than other podcasts where you kick around bullshit...." So true. This is why Tom has one of the best podcasts - zero small talk. These guys go big.
Agree Ungloo. Tom likes to dive deep into into the intellectual realm of human understanding, it makes sense that Ryan enjoy this special conversational moment. If you watch Ryan on other people shows, he is passionate and can go on days talking about the human condition.
“Obstacle is the Way” literally changed my life and saved my business during the last recession. Thank you for this interview.
Brother I don't know you
But
1 day ago I get my book
"OBSTACLES IS THE WAY"
I HOPE TO GET HIGH THINK FROM THAT BOOK
Amazing mind! Ryan Holliday is the best! Please bring him on often!
Your true character and success can be found in love your service towards others.
I can’t express enough how much I appreciate you BOTH! May Creator hold your hand today and always.
Biggest “learning” for me was your words about aligning behind goals to move companies, and given today’s culture, the country forward. Profound and easily actionable.
"If they can force you to do something you don't want to do, it is because you don't know how to die."
This is an amazing story Ryan! Thank you Tom for putting this together!
Thanks Tom and Ryan! One of the best talks I’ve heard. Perfect timing - to be lead and mentored (online) by men with strong values and goals, empowering and helpings others, including women, like me. I’m going through a lot - always - and stoicism, these talks, the books and journaling are guiding me on my journey to becoming who I am again, and keeping me on course. Thanks again for the strength, courage, and wisdom you lend so graciously with your time and energy.
Ryan Holliday is the best! Please bring him on often! Got his book because I saw him on your show!
Simply ❤..... Tom for President and Ryan for Vice President or vice versa.
Fantastic! (And still listening)
Kept it going during my trip to the gym. I felt like these discussions are oxygen in my soul! Thanks for being brave and talking about our WHOLE world! 🌎
Hey Tom, interview Dan Crenshaw, former Navy SEAL congressman and author of Fortitude - American Resilience in the Era of Outrage. Talk about a total badass!
would love to check out that interview. thx for pointing out
@donald johnson That's why I'm recommending him. ;) Tom would love him and so would his audience if they heard with him. Really inspirational guy!
@@DP-sh3nk You would probably agree with at least some of his policies if you dug deeper. His book is uh-mazing. Thanks for your input! :)
I will absolutely be devouring whatever content I can get my ears on from this guy! Thanks for having him on the podcast, Tom.
That was amazing!! Two brilliant minds sharing ideas candidly without filters. Thank you lads!! Much much appreciated
Ryan is amazing! One of my favorite speakers
Both these guys are Masters in their fields and the glaring common thing that I'm getting from both of them is their student mindset. Amazing podcast. Thank you.
Love how you guys disagree.
Ryan is a master.
So are you Tom
Gosh! You two are so knowledgeable and it is very enjoyable for me to be able to see this perfect format allowing ideas to bounce back and forth. Such a shame we cannot have a true democrat and a true republican candidates have this sort of healthy discussion.
No one is better at recording meaningful conversation than Tom! Thank you for all your great content!
*Being a realist, but also an optimist at the same time is a good combination* 🙏
Yeah? What exactly IS reality? It's always a matter of individual experience. There is no one reality.
Thank you Ryan for bringing your perspective to the podcast. I am from South Africa and apartheid ended just over 2 decades and we currently have the biggest inequality gap in economically in the world. I am in my 30s and when I started working I thought the playing field was leveled (because apartheid was over) and if I got my qualifications and worked extremely hard that would be enough. But I am seeing that the injustices are still systemic. People need to recognize that these are real barriers even though the discriminatory laws were abolished.
I see people of color striving, proving and trying to excel everyday, like me, and the physical and emotional exhaustion from jumping through these systemic hoops is real. This is not an issue that can be solve by being individually exceptional, we need to recognize the injustices and uproot the systematic root causes, collectively.
I just picked up Mr. Holidays book yesterday. I’ve read every book, and Each one is more amazing than the next. I forget if it was Holiday or Greene that got me hooked to this channel but one of them did, and I’m so grateful for it. I’ve learned quite a bit in my quest for a higher learning. It’s a wonderful path that never ends but branches out to other beautiful paths. Ty
"I'd rather live under a regime that's passing laws and passing polices that I disagree with, but I think they're being done for good reasons than my fantasy country as a shield for a bad actor."
Yeah, go say that to the people that died under Mao or even now in 2020's North Korea, or even the people in China living under a government that's enforcing social score systems.
All of those things were being done by "good reasons" but let's not forget what the path to hell is paved with.
Yeah i agree that "Some of the worst things in the world are done with the best of intentions". I think people are so obsessed with predicting something that they would never stop and think is it really necessary to go down that rabbit hole?
Tom masterful interview. Great job of really posing the conversation past the basics and adding tangible insights we can apply to help us toward our goals.
44:04 “I will do anything within my code of ethics to achieve my success.”
One of my favorite modern stoics. Thank you for having him on!
Quite possibly your best podcast of all time. Great work Tom.
Absolutely beautiful dialogue!!
Thank you for this episode! It is everything I've been feeling put into words, and has given me comfort knowing I am not the only one with this outlook.
It time for us to think collectively and not individually
Thini individually for the collective!
Ryan Holiday needs to go to South Africa to see what the previously disadvantaged have done to that country. Ryan is trying to correct the past when he should be focusing on the present and future.
It seem Ryan is searching to approval and feels a lot of guilt. His ideas are very pure and he outlines what the challenges where. He doesn't give any solutions. Because his solutions are to gift the some of previously disadvantaged people positions and roles they perhaps don't qualify or deserve when competing on an equal platform.
People like Ryan are very dangerous in positions of power. Because they either become tyrants trying to mold society into their own perfect picture. Or when they have completely destroyed the fabric/values/ideals of what has allowed them to have these grandiose utopian visions he can just walk away. Shrug it off. Blame others for it's failings. Leave his society with the divisions and fractures he was trying to fix.
"Lameness or a limp is an impediment to the body but not the spirit."
I can relate
Always pumped to listen to Ryan he is such a amazing guy
F*** yeah!!! You have given me hope that our society can improve! Thank you for showing us, the people on the sideline who don't want to get involved, the importance of speaking up!
Love this conversation...much respect to Ryan..great job Tom.
For those watching this podcast and interested in a bit more insight of “what happened? And how did we get here” type of answer, I suggest you watch the latest Brett Weinstein episode on the Joe Rogan podcast. They go pretty deep with their analysis and perspective. It’s a good listen.
Thanks, I’ll check it out. Have you watched “The Social Dilemma” yet? If not, you might find it interesting. Cheers!
will give it a go. thanks brotha
Yes, this and I think it's worth checking out Spiral Dynamics - especially stage blue, orange, and green. Search on youtube for "leo - spiral dynamics" and I'm sure you'll find some interesting info.
Thanks Tom for the interview with my Stoic Guru who introduced Stocism to me through his books. I would have listened to Ryan"s book Daily Stoic at least 50 times. 🙏❤️Selfhelpchampion
Great discussion today and great way to start the day. I love the importance of independant and critical thinking. I go to George Akerlof & Kranton (Berkeley Economists) for content on this and prefer the term "Identity Economics" to "Identity Politics". Identity economics captures the idea that people make economic choices based on both monetary incentives and their identity: holding monetary incentives constant, people avoid actions that conflict with their concept of self.
Best talk ever! Thank you :)
Love to you both guys, Thank you for All you´ve been sharing. I´ve been following you (Ryan) more years than Tom. Gentlemen you are Unique in your stuff.. Thanks Again-
Ryan holiday u alter my life with stoicism
I'm speechless!
Ryan-you mentioned the tension between complicity and acceptance and the founding fathers of our country. Montaigne, living in the time of the French Renaissance, was friend to a young man, Etienne de la Boettie who wrote an essay at the age of seventeen called “Discourse on Voluntary Servitude.” Written as an argument against Machiavelli’s politics in “The Prince” he shows that assent to power is given by the people, who will suffer the fears and abuses only while suffering is bearable, until the suffering becomes too intolerable and reaches a tipping point. Jefferson wrote in the Declaration this same essential concept, and it is so similar in concept that I cannot help but think it might be the original source. The tension is broken by enough people suffering from the same affliction with the stoic resolve to address it. This was the American Revolution, Civil Rights and women’s equality which rose to challenge the establishment to live up to the promise of equality and freedom that the people were ready, willing and able to fight for. Power cedes nothing without a demand. Looking at the nation now, we have for so long, taken our freedoms for granted that it is eroding without people even noticing, but the people alive today-women and blacks-who remember that in our lifetimes, those promises have only jut been made real, are the ones who, like Cato, fully comprehend the significance of the protections we risk losing.
Ryan Holiday is our modern day hero in light-years compared to the typical year 2020 collective thinking.
Only truth will make you stronger!
Only truth will make you more popular!
Only truth will make you a human-being!
Ryan holiday is incredible!
Stoicism is the path to becoming the man you’ve always wanted to become
Ryan, What if the change is “you lose your freedom to express a different opinion”. You would not adjust..
Lots of people say slavery shouldn’t happen, and yet, you have people go to grocery stores or some other businesses and they expect waiters/cashiers or pick the lowest positions in, to be their slave, and they feel power and entitlement to act badly. They have to respect all people, no matter their status and position in society or business.
Even a conversation on stoicism somehow ends up relating back to Lisa's microbiome issues.
Holy shit! Brilliant conversation! From the mention of character to greatness to self-worth.... damn! I have been working on bringing something into the world for about 30 years w/out recognition or financial gain. That’s ok bc the delay gave me more to work with. And now, I’m bringing. Mind you, I’ve been following stoicism for a while. Philosophy is my gig but I’ve not applied it to my relationship with myself ... interesting 🧐 anyway, I cannot thank you enough for this talk or what you both bring to the planet... I appreciate you both
YAYYYY New Ryan holiday content. I'm so happy
I like this interview because it talks about if you are good enough people can't ignore you. The example was Jackie Robinson.
One of the few videos on RUclips that I have liked before I saw it ........I just knew it would be worth it.
Excelent video! I should watch this several times!
Incredible interview! Worth every minute:). Thank you both for being "bad-asses!"
Tom, you are the man! Keep it coming my guy
Heard Ryan talk about stoicism on the breakfast club yesterday and was like “this is the perfect topic for Tom”, then I wake up to this 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
my favorite episode. as an aspiring stoic
I enjoy some of Ryan's stuff however he's coming across as a bit 'holier-than-thou' these days. He lost me the moment he launched into his (very personal) Trump rant and then got all wokey-woke with his characterisation of people as either 'good' or 'bad'. It's that sort of pious, reductionist thinking that's facilitated the mess we're now in. I.e. "If you don't whole-heartedly support BLM etc or question anything about it then you're an evil person!!"
Anyway having said all that, I still got something out of this conversation, so thanks as always, Tom.
just admit you did not like his view on trump and move on... the guy is not what you describe at all.
@@antoinel2279 I'm in the UK mate, I don't have a particular interest in American politcs, it was just an observation. For someone who prides himself on Stoicism and rational thinking etc, calling Trump "a f**cking moron" doesn't seem to be a very measured, objective analysis.
@@igg3937I dont have particular interest in american politics either as I'm canadian. Though, to me it is a pretty "measured, objective analysis" of the person we are talking about here.
@@antoinel2279 Ha, ok man whatever. It wasn't a particularly classy moment from Ryan is all I'm saying and I don't think it was appropriate or necessary to bring in his her personal political feelings on this platform.
@igg I was thinking the same. And Tom actually called that out very tastefully
Obsessed yes! Ryan Holiday is one of my favs!
I find stoicism a bit difficult to implement, as they tell you the goal, but often not the necessary steps to attain it. It would be nice to be unshaken by the vicissitudes of life, but how can most people actually achieve that? People try to intellectualize problems away all the time, but rarely ever succeed... As it is often stated in Buddhism, "pain is a given, suffering is a choice". I'd really like to see some pragmatic "path" leading to the goals of stoicism!
Check out www.dhamma.org , Vipassana meditation is a tool to achieve that state of mind.
The whole point is you're not going through avoid the pain.
So pick a goal that means something to you because the pain is guaranteed.
The success is not.
I got the same problem, but somehow I'm doing my own path.
What has helped me a lot is to aknowledge my emotions, if you suppress them, they're gonna come back at you really hard. So find a way to channel and let them out on a regular basis, it can be through journaling,meditation, therapy, talking with someone you trust and won't judge you,etc.
Once you have this aspect somehow regulated (it's an everyday work,but it gets easier with time), you can start working on your rational and more pragmatic practices
Time-Tested Self-Improvement Principles the Buddha clearly says “ life is suffering “ and I’m living the dream. You gotta figure your shit out, there is pragmatic plan that fits all. No complaining no explaining, dude.
It’s a practice. You get better at it over time. You try every time and sometimes you succeed remain stoic but other times you’ll fail to remain stoic. Then over a lifetime you master it
Love you guys both! You are f great! R H you're truly "these days" visceral prophet!
I can see why Tom has 1.72 subscribers exelent guest and topic ..again
I thought I was the only one who thinks this way about politics. This idea needs to be vocalized. It will only help and unite - not hurt and segregate.
Amazing story 🔥 thank you for putting this together
OMG I love this so much. Thank you
I love the guests on this show. They would be able to contribute more to the conversation if the questions were more succinct.
Good conversation. Would have been more fierce if the things were expressed with less swearing by Tom
"Stop interrupting him Tom every few seconds!!!"
Thought I would get that in there before everyone else ;)
LOL! To Tom's credit, I think he might have heard the feedback because I thought he was MUCH better in this episode!
Very funny R L89. Yes Tom usually like to interrupt people and get in his talking points. Tom, please hold whatever point you have, and let your guest talk. 80% guest talking, 20% Tom talking would be a good ratio in my opinion.
moderation is inconsistent with passion. Both are correct if they’re applied in the proper cicumstance..
58:34 "I live in a ranch in texas, ergo I'm not a leftist."
I love Ryan, been following his work for years and read all his books (except his last one on the Lives of the stoics), his mentor Robert Greene is a very well respected writer as well, but owning a ranch doesn't mean you're a right or left winger. Didn't he run away from NY due to it's heavy politics, and other problems I'm sure, onto the more spacious and conservative state of TX? I can't help but smell a hint of hypocrisy in some of his politics, but to each his own specially in the political and religious realm, I'm just bringing something up that rang a bit weird to me.
People are so funny when it comes to politics. He doesn’t even realize that many “leftists” have left their states to states with less people and terrible policies (California being the most obvious where they are fleeing in droves to Texas). As if where you live is a sign of your politics.
When someone says they’re not a leftist and then goes through all the typical leftist talking points and then props up Joe Biden and say he’s “the moderate we need,” you know the hypocrisy is flowing.
It couldn’t be any easier in 2020 to admit that the choices are two less than ideal candidates for one reason or another. I actually haven’t met a single Trump supporter that doesn’t have a few things they don’t like about Trump and will say it out loud. Almost every Biden supporter I know basically thinks he walks on water and if you just simply ask them to admit something Biden does or has done it’s just “oh he’s that awkward grandpa.”
This too, keep going guys I stop my workout to listen this two points of view
13:45 - about how the more "identities" people say they have, reminds me of 48 laws of power, eg Never Commit To Anyone, and Assume Formlessness. It's a good point that you don't want to pigeon hole yourself or let people work you out so quickly.
Two of my heroes . Keep telling the truth regardless of your personal beliefs/politics. Tired of all the hate promoters, wanna be bs alpha_males/fake machoness, which is IMO is the antithesis of Stoicism.
you need Alpha to run a country.
Alyways consider what it is in your life that you have controll over, and what you don't. Then act on the things you can change, and remove the rest from your thoughts.
He's a civilian so I will cut him a break but this matters, you don't "win" the metal of honor, the metal of honor is bestowed upon you for your actions. You don't ask for it, you don't seek it out. It's important.
Medal
@@jimmyjamessac7171 You are correct, my bad. thank you. :) When I say it verbally, I say it with the T lol accents and all lol
I find Ryan Holiday as a sort of con artist. It is perhaps because he does not live his principles.
Same. Disingenous
Amazing interview!!
I spend most of my time in "recording", "gameplay" and editing and uploading. I need all my brother's and sisters' support. 🙏🙏🙏
Bruh!! Play something else freefire is too boring!
@@SuvarnaGourDas lllll
This is awesome.
Update guys! Completed reading another book. Book count: 290 :)
The part 13:30-17:45 is so good, maybe think about publishing an excerpt #itsAllAboutCharacter
Your videos are great Tom but Ryan's rant about Trump was not only disappointing but tiring and not very stoic. I felt the need to abandon it after 23 minutes.
Awww another trump supporter cannot handle the truth.... wait I mean cannot even comprehend the truth when it is told directly to them.
Thanks for the reply @@dinagimmelli4693. It's not so much about an inability I may or may not have to handle truth or even fabrications regarding Trump. My comment instead deals with how I have become super exhausted with the non-stop Trump bashing that is everywhere. I am far more interested in learning about and practicing stoicism, which is the actual topic of the interview. I am equally tired of the never ending Biden bashing from the right. I wish that we could all transform and redirect some of the negative energy into finding a little bit of passion for being kind to one another and applying the principle of charity rather than the passion for tribalism and division that has emerged in this world we currently live in. I'm just really tired of it. Anyway, I hope you have a great day Dina.
@@dinagimmelli4693 another blind CNN fan?
The last 3 months of this year will be filled with MIRACLES, FINANCIAL FREEDOM, LOVE, and TRUE JOY.
Type Yes to AFFIRM it
"You don't wake up and the weather determines the quality of your day."
1:22:00 - 1:33:38 Tom asks if Ryan wants to go someplace Dangerous.
Wha software does Tom use to record those?:)
Thanks guys!
Thank you guys!
I'm showing my partner 1h16 onward, I want her to know to challenge me, and why I challenge her lol
This whole thing has been great. A philosophy of action vs a philosophy of talk. This was a conversation between two of the great kind this conversation has been about!
I resonate with Holiday's point about the xenophobes being scared of change. OTOH, I think this plays into "future shock" problems of rapidly evolving morality systems. I don't think the problem is so much that the rules have changed, as that they are rapidly changing - and so no one knows what the rules are.
Also - what a great idea re: collective vs. individual i.e. in terms of stoicism.
When are you resigned to your fate vs. taking action in the world?
This gets to the serenity prayer - how do you have the wisdom to know what is changeable? I suspect Tom B. would suggest that all things are - which is a powerful belief system.
That’s because we are looking for ourselves not materialistic shit..material goods are great! We all can agree on that. But it’s important to remember not to use these temporary goods to dictate our inner world/inner happiness.
Love and respect for these two guys; in fact, I have all of Ryan's books and follow Tom religiously. However, Ryan, you make a flawed argument at best and a ridiculous idiotic attack at worst against President Trump. First of all, I will not call you a socialist just because I disagree with your point of view as you mentioned that other people have done so. That is your right, and I respect the right to your opinion, and base on the fact that you keep writing books and continue to be paid to do so, instead of giving away your work for free to the masses, it shows that you have some appreciation for capitalism. You not voting for President Trump because he is "Moron," and a "Bad Person" comes across as an ill-founded tantrum, so the guy is not charismatic or friendly; these are not the talents you are required to have to be President. I will cast my vote for the candidate that will implement policies for the betterment of the whole Nation rather than cater to any single self-interest or ethnic group. President Trump has demonstrated his resolve to place the United States of America and its citizens' interests first above all else, that makes him the most qualified person for the job. Ryan, I invite you to promote and foster an environment where individuals can engage in a real dialogue about the issues [Political or Not] that are tearing our country to pieces. Rather than to go on groundless tirades about Mr. Donald Trump not paying his bills, belonging in a Shakespeare play, and something about a road needing repairs and him not wanting to help fix it..... Why don't you collect your thoughts and come up with something of substance and edifying instead of making useless statements that only aggravate the current situation.
His words and thoughts are quite shallow and immature when it comes to politics and especially Trump, right? Surprising because he's such a good writer and is wise in other ways.
Yes all of this... Very Sam Harris like.
It would not be AS big an issue if he did not prop up Biden while doing so. Someone who says racially disparaging things often, inappropriately touches young girls and women and has serious cognitive decline. These are not opinions, these are video verifiable facts and enough of them to make a feature film. To be in denial of that is very hypocritical.
I feel like it should be pretty easy for someone like Ryan to say in the 2020 election that there are two less than optimal candidates but he chooses Biden because of x, y and z.
in his example about the communal road, Trump would have cleared it, paved it, cleaned it, added lighting to it, and yes, probably had a plaque installed with his name on it, and perhaps found a way to do it paying the least taxes possible by following tax grey areas, as ALL businessmen do, (ehm, ehm,.amazon..) But definitely, the *opposite* of what Ryan said.
Buenísimo!
So good
Tom leaning Trump, Ryan leaning Biden. Logic and Reason (Discuss' Goals/Direction) vs Emotions (Discuss' Character/Personality)
Franco how on earth did you even draw this conclusion?
@Ray Lanfranco It is in NO way rational to conclude that Tom is leaning Trump.