I've watched several of your videos, and they are all of excellent quality. This video particularly impresses in that you are willing to highlight where Tana outpaces your preferred tool Logseq. You have well-reasoned opinions supported by cogent, understandable examples.
I like Tana, except the fact that all your information is stored in their cloud. That is the #1 reason why I prefer Logseq. In regards to projects & tasks? Omnifocus!
Thank you for this video. I love to see how these apps learn from each other. The supertags in Tana become properties in Logseq and function in similar ways. For me at least. One big difference to me is how one course-yours, thank you-feels like I now know how I want to use Logseq. I Tana, I find that was constantly thinking about new ways to structure the database or the "supertags." It felt like that was an ongoing project and distracted me from simply using the tool for what I need it for. I am sticking with Logseq. Three reasons: - It feels more simple to me. Without overthinking I have a very useable tool - Logseq has a simple and elegant way to plan recurring tasks. That simply doesn't exist in Tana. - Local storage is the deal breaker. I have plain text files that I still find from the early 2000s. I find that immensely valuable. I don't see Tana being able to provide that kind of longevity. I tried downloading Tana data, but that gave me a completely useless file. I agree with your notion of queries in Tana. Very very nice. And I am jealous of the recent Tana Capture app in IOS. That is massive. And when it comes to longform writing, I love outlining in Logseq and then I write in IA writer. Still the best writing interface for me. Obsidian doesn't invite writing for me as well. No matter, still all markdown files that I can work with in various places. Love that. Good luck with your new ventures. I wish you all the best.
Thanks for the feedback, particularly on the course. I'm glad to hear that it was so helpful. I agree with you that local storage and access to plain-text files are the biggest drawcards. I continually find myself wanting to limit what I put into Tana (even on the project management side), just because I've enjoyed working with Markdown so much. And I think I should have a look at IA writer :) It's come up on my radar a few times.
Love the videos! Glad to see this comparison. One small note though-the audio is a bit quiet, I've had to boost the audio externally with RUclips's volume at 100%.
Just started trying out Logseq for the first time yesterday and watched an hour long intro video by you on somebody else's channel. Found your channel today and got a little concerned that I might already need to consider moving to Tana. Thankfully I only needed to watch the first 6 min 40 seconds of this video to make up my mind. Going to stick with Logseq because it's Open-source and theoretically free forever*. Looking forward to watching more of your videos. Cheers! (like'd & sub'd)
Thank you for this video! I have actually found Tana much easier for me to use for knowledge management as I love that everything is a node. I actually have found the page and block format in Logseq (and Roam) harder to use. Just goes to show how much personal preference plays into which tool is right for you. I just find it easier to collect and move bits of information around in Tana; in Logseq I never seemed to get the hang of finding the particular block I was looking for without remembering which page it was on. I will say it is easier to use super tags to collect information about a given thing (I have one for “topic, so when I am in #book I have a field for an instance of #topic that tells me what this book or video or whatever it is about. Obviously one thing can be about more than one topic) then presto can have a list or table of everything about a given topic. I totally agree there is a temptation to over structure everything in Tana; I did have to think through do I need to find this in a list or a table later or not? If not then no need for a super tag. I also find writing long things to be easier in Tana (again, personal preference). I think it is the total disconnect from having to think hard about “where should this live” that makes it easy for me to write. Would love to see more Tana content, or even better, Tana and Logseq content as I do use both for different purposes.
6:24 so not an option right now. 5:586:36 and 7:01 proprietary, you don't own your data, and you will be charged an ever increasing amount of money. so it will never be an option.
That's a good separation of concerns in my opinion, although I have been tempted to move more things over to Tana. At this stage it's all my "open loops" (as discussed in the other webinar I did): reminders, projects, decision tracking, that sort of thing.
If you're serious about growing the channels my main suggestion would be better backgrounds. A blond white guy with a white/beige background is pretty difficult to look at for more than an few minutes and it tends to make mt eyes tired. Darker backgrounds with a nice key light on you would do wonders. I appreciate the comparison video. I've been using Tana for almost half a year now and agree with al your points. I end up going back to Logseq for 99% of my note taking because it's so basic and simple. I still can't figure out how to create a super tag without going into the schema and actually typing it in there and then I have duplicates everywhere...it's such a mess. But when i finally get the supertag created it's great for very specific documentation for tax purposes for me. But to be honest, as soon as they start charging I'll never use it again. Keep up the great work 👍
Thanks for the feedback! I've bought a new softbox and a second-hand camera lens as a result of this to hopefully improve the aesthetic. Not sure about the background though; may need to get some coloured LED lighting.
Thank you for all the content you produce and for this very helpful video. You are saving me a lot of time by exploring the use of these tools, using them much as myself and others want to do, and then laying it all out for us in easy to follow videos. You have done the time consuming part -- exploring these tools, working out how to best use them, and so can get the rest of us up the learning curve quickly. I don't mind at all paying a nominal fee for your courses, especially when you've made such impactful material like this available for free. I'm very sympathetic to your view of loosely structured PKM information. In my 20+ years of using these tools I have also concluded that a simple structure is the best way to enable re-use of information in ways that were not, can could not, be foreseen. Your assessment of Tana vs Logseq for PKM rang really true for me.
I am a Logseq user since 1 year and am definitely interested in using Tana for project management 👍 as I also believe Logseq is not ideally suited for that purpose, so that would be lovely if you could add that video 💪
Tana UI is great, and the Query views are superb, they look fantastic! I whish Logseq could have that type of query builder, filtering and viewing options. In the other hand, you need to tag each node in tana in order to appear ina aquery result, meanning, you wont see any child note or task. Also the UI ends very cluttered in tana, because if your supertags have fields, these fieldes will be shown expanded by default in each node, so you will have a lot of extra information besides the child nodes of a block. Also, all task and todos end with a hashtag, so all you text is filled with tags and become somehow congested. Logseq looks cleaner to me at the end.
That's a great point on how the UI becomes so cluttered in Tana, and how you sometime's miss the child notes because the fields take up so much space. I find myself asking "where do the children nodes start, and the fields end" 🙄
@@CombiningMindsPKM Exactly Instead of seeing the parent node and its childs, you see the parent node, then all properties inherited from its supertag, and then all the child nodes. And hopefully your child nodes don't have supertags, otherwise you will see more properties displayed, and so on...
Do you think supertags could be natively supported by Logseq one day? I was quite impressed by the task management demonstration. The distinction between supertags and tags seems useful. One is a record, while the other one is a concept. In retrospect, do they even overlap? By the way, I'm new to Logseq and I'm really loving your videos! Having the outline in the video makes it really easy to follow.
$120/year for a note-taking app is never going to be a winner. The end goal for all closed-source startups in the productivity space is to get get rich after being bought out by Microsoft or Google.
Hmm, I don't know - Evernote has done well (up until now) and there are lots of other players who have built solid businesses on a premium pricing model (e.g. Workflowy, Roam)
For your Logseq vs Obsidian comparison, you touched on performance. Not sure if you have any similar comparisons for Tana or if it's too apples to oranges to do similar comparison?
Hmmm, they're quite different in terms of setup so I'm not sure that it's the fairest comparison. Tana can sometimes be quite slow to load, but after that I've generally been quite satisfied with speed (except for loading images, that feels a bit hacky). But I don't have nearly as much information in Tana as I do in Logseq, so it's hard to tell what happens when there's a lot of data.
Just want to check in after 6 months do you think Tana can totally replace Logseq as the primary repository of personal knowledge ( for those who aren’t bothered to host PKM on a cloud va local).
I love your videos on Logseq, but I want to ask you how do you handle documents ? Is it possible to attach a local document, and not "uploading" the asset ?
"Alternative entering the room" Good to have multiple options. But, when is the time right.... That a eink tablet company like Onyx, makes a tablet with a good LogSeq application.... That would be a "bang", do I think.
@@CombiningMindsPKM But wait. Is it possible in LogSeq to write text/letter/sings/creative figures by hand. Like paint/notes in windows, but then with lines like a notebook/ papier schrift.
Comment from a fellow South African geek in all the same stuff! Found your channel yesterday and your Logseq knowledge has helped so much, have been bouncing between Notion, Obsidian with all the same issues like privacy, local vs cloud, etc. There’s one in beta you’ve probably heard of, Anytype, like Notion but with local storage and encryption. Local (storage)is lekker, so will come down to Logseq or Anytype! Thanks for all the work put in, so appreciated.
Tana - Saved Google Searches ("AI" based) vs Logseq with is knowledge management. It's literally a choice between actually learning and getting dumbed down possibly with faulty information.
Hi Dario @CombiningMindsPKM, I saw this video 5 Month bevore and chose logsec for my notes too. But now I am a little bit overhelmed by using logsec for projektmabagement and want to try tana vor this aproach. But I definitely don't want to give up logseq, it is amasing for me in other things. The solution is to combine this two softwares. Just like you do, if I undestood it correctly. Can you please make a video how do YOU use logsec and tana (simultaneously)? Where/what is the connection? What is the effective way to separate the content between logsec and tana? How not to loose myself in this two tools? ...
Tana looks beautiful, but proprietary+cloud-only really is scary, I'd feel insecure trying to use it for PKM jshfjfhj. Do you think there's any chance some features like more powerful properties might be implemented in Logseq in some form eventually?
They are working on a database only version which would free them from the limitations imposed by having Markdown files on the backend, so it could be possible.
I’m Logseq user and now I’m also using Tana…I don’t know, it is a very powerful app, indeed, but sometimes for simple things Tana-team make the procedure a little laborious or complicated. Nevertheless, I think it will be a great alternative 😊
There's a few things I miss when I use Tana, and I've had to create little workarounds using supertags. But still, it easily performs a function that I struggled to build in Logseq.
Fantastic and clear video! Thank you for you work. I an happy logseq user also thank to you video and lessons. Looking at Tana it seems to me very similar to Notion as approach. This is not bad but I am building my PKM and I want to open the tool and write down my ideas. The simple structure of Logseq is for me the real plus in my workflow.
Thanks Fabrizio. It is similar to Notion, however the fact that it works from a daily node and allows you to add information to databases via supertags makes it all the more powerful :)
The number one absolute worst thing about Tana is the extreme limited use of their mobile app. You can only “capture “ and it just gets thrown in for you to organize later. Complete deal breaker unfortunately
I think there's something about the flexibility of being an 'almost text editor' that is lacking in some of the other platforms. But I agree on the Airtable front - it's a much more versatile and powerful online database. Thanks for the intro to Seatable. It looks like a good competitor to Airtable (and has Zapier integrations, unlike Baserow and Rowy)
@@ToriZealot a number of different use-cases, but main one is integrating book-keeping with Airtable. I think of Zapier as a proxy for how robust a service is in terms of its integrations.
I've watched several of your videos, and they are all of excellent quality. This video particularly impresses in that you are willing to highlight where Tana outpaces your preferred tool Logseq. You have well-reasoned opinions supported by cogent, understandable examples.
Thanks John - I appreciate the feedback 🙏🏼
I like Tana, except the fact that all your information is stored in their cloud. That is the #1 reason why I prefer Logseq. In regards to projects & tasks? Omnifocus!
Omnifocus is only for Mac and iOS though, so that cuts out over half the people who could be using any given software :)
Thank you for this video. I love to see how these apps learn from each other. The supertags in Tana become properties in Logseq and function in similar ways. For me at least.
One big difference to me is how one course-yours, thank you-feels like I now know how I want to use Logseq. I Tana, I find that was constantly thinking about new ways to structure the database or the "supertags." It felt like that was an ongoing project and distracted me from simply using the tool for what I need it for.
I am sticking with Logseq. Three reasons:
- It feels more simple to me. Without overthinking I have a very useable tool
- Logseq has a simple and elegant way to plan recurring tasks. That simply doesn't exist in Tana.
- Local storage is the deal breaker. I have plain text files that I still find from the early 2000s. I find that immensely valuable. I don't see Tana being able to provide that kind of longevity. I tried downloading Tana data, but that gave me a completely useless file.
I agree with your notion of queries in Tana. Very very nice. And I am jealous of the recent Tana Capture app in IOS. That is massive.
And when it comes to longform writing, I love outlining in Logseq and then I write in IA writer. Still the best writing interface for me. Obsidian doesn't invite writing for me as well. No matter, still all markdown files that I can work with in various places. Love that.
Good luck with your new ventures. I wish you all the best.
Thanks for the feedback, particularly on the course. I'm glad to hear that it was so helpful.
I agree with you that local storage and access to plain-text files are the biggest drawcards. I continually find myself wanting to limit what I put into Tana (even on the project management side), just because I've enjoyed working with Markdown so much.
And I think I should have a look at IA writer :) It's come up on my radar a few times.
Love the videos! Glad to see this comparison. One small note though-the audio is a bit quiet, I've had to boost the audio externally with RUclips's volume at 100%.
Noted - I think I just need to put the mike closer to my mouth.
Just started trying out Logseq for the first time yesterday and watched an hour long intro video by you on somebody else's channel. Found your channel today and got a little concerned that I might already need to consider moving to Tana. Thankfully I only needed to watch the first 6 min 40 seconds of this video to make up my mind. Going to stick with Logseq because it's Open-source and theoretically free forever*. Looking forward to watching more of your videos. Cheers! (like'd & sub'd)
Thanks for the comment, that put a smile on my face. Hope your journey with Logseq is going well 🙂
Thank you for this video! I have actually found Tana much easier for me to use for knowledge management as I love that everything is a node. I actually have found the page and block format in Logseq (and Roam) harder to use. Just goes to show how much personal preference plays into which tool is right for you. I just find it easier to collect and move bits of information around in Tana; in Logseq I never seemed to get the hang of finding the particular block I was looking for without remembering which page it was on. I will say it is easier to use super tags to collect information about a given thing (I have one for “topic, so when I am in #book I have a field for an instance of #topic that tells me what this book or video or whatever it is about. Obviously one thing can be about more than one topic) then presto can have a list or table of everything about a given topic. I totally agree there is a temptation to over structure everything in Tana; I did have to think through do I need to find this in a list or a table later or not? If not then no need for a super tag. I also find writing long things to be easier in Tana (again, personal preference). I think it is the total disconnect from having to think hard about “where should this live” that makes it easy for me to write. Would love to see more Tana content, or even better, Tana and Logseq content as I do use both for different purposes.
Thanks for the feedback. Cool to hear how you're using it in completely alternative use-cases :)
6:24 so not an option right now.
5:58 6:36 and 7:01 proprietary, you don't own your data, and you will be charged an ever increasing amount of money. so it will never be an option.
Totally different business model 😮
Yep, definitely will have some people who won't the Tana setup.
The insight that Tana is not necessary for Personal PKM is pretty helpful. I enjoy your Logseq videos a lot.
Thanks John, appreciate the feedback :)
Kudos! What a video! Structured perfectly.
Thanks :)
Great video. I could see myself moving my work stuff to Tana and keeping logseq for bullet journaling and pkm.
That's a good separation of concerns in my opinion, although I have been tempted to move more things over to Tana. At this stage it's all my "open loops" (as discussed in the other webinar I did): reminders, projects, decision tracking, that sort of thing.
If you're serious about growing the channels my main suggestion would be better backgrounds. A blond white guy with a white/beige background is pretty difficult to look at for more than an few minutes and it tends to make mt eyes tired. Darker backgrounds with a nice key light on you would do wonders.
I appreciate the comparison video. I've been using Tana for almost half a year now and agree with al your points. I end up going back to Logseq for 99% of my note taking because it's so basic and simple. I still can't figure out how to create a super tag without going into the schema and actually typing it in there and then I have duplicates everywhere...it's such a mess. But when i finally get the supertag created it's great for very specific documentation for tax purposes for me. But to be honest, as soon as they start charging I'll never use it again.
Keep up the great work 👍
Thanks for the feedback! I've bought a new softbox and a second-hand camera lens as a result of this to hopefully improve the aesthetic. Not sure about the background though; may need to get some coloured LED lighting.
Logseq: I can use it.
Tana: I can't use it.
Tana is still trying to ride the hype/fomo train.
Thank you for all the content you produce and for this very helpful video. You are saving me a lot of time by exploring the use of these tools, using them much as myself and others want to do, and then laying it all out for us in easy to follow videos. You have done the time consuming part -- exploring these tools, working out how to best use them, and so can get the rest of us up the learning curve quickly. I don't mind at all paying a nominal fee for your courses, especially when you've made such impactful material like this available for free.
I'm very sympathetic to your view of loosely structured PKM information. In my 20+ years of using these tools I have also concluded that a simple structure is the best way to enable re-use of information in ways that were not, can could not, be foreseen. Your assessment of Tana vs Logseq for PKM rang really true for me.
Thanks so much David. I appreciate your kind words. I'm glad the content resonated with you 🙏🏼
I am a Logseq user since 1 year and am definitely interested in using Tana for project management 👍 as I also believe Logseq is not ideally suited for that purpose, so that would be lovely if you could add that video 💪
Nearly there! Just refining the last few things for public consumption :)
Tana UI is great, and the Query views are superb, they look fantastic! I whish Logseq could have that type of query builder, filtering and viewing options.
In the other hand, you need to tag each node in tana in order to appear ina aquery result, meanning, you wont see any child note or task. Also the UI ends very cluttered in tana, because if your supertags have fields, these fieldes will be shown expanded by default in each node, so you will have a lot of extra information besides the child nodes of a block. Also, all task and todos end with a hashtag, so all you text is filled with tags and become somehow congested. Logseq looks cleaner to me at the end.
That's a great point on how the UI becomes so cluttered in Tana, and how you sometime's miss the child notes because the fields take up so much space. I find myself asking "where do the children nodes start, and the fields end" 🙄
@@CombiningMindsPKM Exactly Instead of seeing the parent node and its childs, you see the parent node, then all properties inherited from its supertag, and then all the child nodes. And hopefully your child nodes don't have supertags, otherwise you will see more properties displayed, and so on...
5 mins in ... Tana is cloud ... Oh so logseq then, ok 😀
Do you think supertags could be natively supported by Logseq one day? I was quite impressed by the task management demonstration. The distinction between supertags and tags seems useful. One is a record, while the other one is a concept. In retrospect, do they even overlap? By the way, I'm new to Logseq and I'm really loving your videos! Having the outline in the video makes it really easy to follow.
Thanks for the feedback.
Logseq is building a database only version (i.e. not using Markdown files) and that already has supertag-like functionality.
$120/year for a note-taking app is never going to be a winner. The end goal for all closed-source startups in the productivity space is to get get rich after being bought out by Microsoft or Google.
Hmm, I don't know - Evernote has done well (up until now) and there are lots of other players who have built solid businesses on a premium pricing model (e.g. Workflowy, Roam)
Very timely for me as LogSeq sync sucks still. Looked for an alternative and luckily had a Tana invite :D
Thank you very much for the information!
My pleasure :)
For your Logseq vs Obsidian comparison, you touched on performance. Not sure if you have any similar comparisons for Tana or if it's too apples to oranges to do similar comparison?
Hmmm, they're quite different in terms of setup so I'm not sure that it's the fairest comparison. Tana can sometimes be quite slow to load, but after that I've generally been quite satisfied with speed (except for loading images, that feels a bit hacky). But I don't have nearly as much information in Tana as I do in Logseq, so it's hard to tell what happens when there's a lot of data.
howd you get what seems like omnivore book manager thing there ?
I think it's just the plugin that you're referring to?
5:53 cloud-based, proprietary and expected fee ... and that is where all interest for Tana dissapeared.
Check out AnyType - sounds like it might be an alternative, although haven't tried it myself.
@@CombiningMindsPKM thanks, will check it out
Just want to check in after 6 months do you think Tana can totally replace Logseq as the primary repository of personal knowledge ( for those who aren’t bothered to host PKM on a cloud va local).
There are some people who are doing just that, but I don't think it will replace my use of Logseq.
Very nice video. For me having a tool that i can easily use offline is a must. Being forced online is not what I want.
I love your videos on Logseq, but I want to ask you how do you handle documents ?
Is it possible to attach a local document, and not "uploading" the asset ?
I don't really add too many documents to Logseq (just screen captures and the occasional PDF) so I don't have any strong recommendations
yes, you have to write "[description of the file](file:///*copy-paste file path*)"
"Alternative entering the room"
Good to have multiple options.
But, when is the time right.... That a eink tablet company like Onyx, makes a tablet with a good LogSeq application.... That would be a "bang", do I think.
Indeed, competition is good :) Pushes everyone forward.
And yes, having a tactile, handwritten way to input information will be great.
@@CombiningMindsPKM But wait. Is it possible in LogSeq to write text/letter/sings/creative figures by hand. Like paint/notes in windows, but then with lines like a notebook/ papier schrift.
Currently they say in Tana's website they offer offline access.
I think it's something they're working towards.
Comment from a fellow South African geek in all the same stuff! Found your channel yesterday and your Logseq knowledge has helped so much, have been bouncing between Notion, Obsidian with all the same issues like privacy, local vs cloud, etc. There’s one in beta you’ve probably heard of, Anytype, like Notion but with local storage and encryption. Local (storage)is lekker, so will come down to Logseq or Anytype! Thanks for all the work put in, so appreciated.
Thanks Matthew. I've heard of Anytype, but haven't actually tried it out. Maybe something to consider for the future :)
Tana - Saved Google Searches ("AI" based) vs Logseq with is knowledge management. It's literally a choice between actually learning and getting dumbed down possibly with faulty information.
That's one way of looking at it. I think Tana can be used quite effectively if set-up correctly
Hi Dario @CombiningMindsPKM, I saw this video 5 Month bevore and chose logsec for my notes too. But now I am a little bit overhelmed by using logsec for projektmabagement and want to try tana vor this aproach. But I definitely don't want to give up logseq, it is amasing for me in other things. The solution is to combine this two softwares. Just like you do, if I undestood it correctly. Can you please make a video how do YOU use logsec and tana (simultaneously)? Where/what is the connection? What is the effective way to separate the content between logsec and tana? How not to loose myself in this two tools? ...
Thanks for the feedback - I'm hoping to do a few videos that look into this sort of thing 👍🏼
Tana looks beautiful, but proprietary+cloud-only really is scary, I'd feel insecure trying to use it for PKM jshfjfhj. Do you think there's any chance some features like more powerful properties might be implemented in Logseq in some form eventually?
They are working on a database only version which would free them from the limitations imposed by having Markdown files on the backend, so it could be possible.
I’m Logseq user and now I’m also using Tana…I don’t know, it is a very powerful app, indeed, but sometimes for simple things Tana-team make the procedure a little laborious or complicated. Nevertheless, I think it will be a great alternative 😊
There's a few things I miss when I use Tana, and I've had to create little workarounds using supertags. But still, it easily performs a function that I struggled to build in Logseq.
The new shiny just grabs your attention doesn't it? :-) I know how it is. I was just about to sign up for your Logseq course too...
As I said, I see them being used in different ways, so Logseq Mastery will remain relevant.
Hey random question, is there a way to colour words in a block different colours on Logseq, or can a block only hold one colour?
You can probably do it with CSS, but it's not something that I've tried to do.
volume!!!!
Thanks. This is hopefully fixed in later videos.
Thanks very much ❤ for this video. This helped me to better understand different workcases using the one or other software.
Glad it was helpful :)
I really hope the database version of Logseq allows some of these features to be added (it sounds like that's the plan).
Yep, it does seem like that's the plan :)
Fantastic and clear video! Thank you for you work. I an happy logseq user also thank to you video and lessons. Looking at Tana it seems to me very similar to Notion as approach. This is not bad but I am building my PKM and I want to open the tool and write down my ideas. The simple structure of Logseq is for me the real plus in my workflow.
Thanks Fabrizio. It is similar to Notion, however the fact that it works from a daily node and allows you to add information to databases via supertags makes it all the more powerful :)
@@CombiningMindsPKM Thks!
We are waiting for the project management video 😉
Coming soon!
You probably just was needed to start that Tana is not open-source and cloud-based. It could save us a lot of time :)
@@VladimirNosenko 👌🏼
The number one absolute worst thing about Tana is the extreme limited use of their mobile app. You can only “capture “ and it just gets thrown in for you to organize later. Complete deal breaker unfortunately
Given their team and rate of development I don't think a more fully featured mobile app is too far away.
logseq is better
Tana is cool but IMHO pretty overrated.
If you want database functionalities you are way better with tools like Coda, Seatable, Airtable, etc.
I think there's something about the flexibility of being an 'almost text editor' that is lacking in some of the other platforms.
But I agree on the Airtable front - it's a much more versatile and powerful online database. Thanks for the intro to Seatable. It looks like a good competitor to Airtable (and has Zapier integrations, unlike Baserow and Rowy)
@@CombiningMindsPKM Interesting, what is your use-case for using Zapier here?
@@ToriZealot a number of different use-cases, but main one is integrating book-keeping with Airtable. I think of Zapier as a proxy for how robust a service is in terms of its integrations.