Swapping out the stock springs to one that matched my weight solved 99% of my issues. As well as servicing them with fresh oil and a new rubber bumper thingy. Mine bike was a zzr1400.
Spring rate is crucial. It assumes the natural starting point of the front and rear when you're seated and the surface is billiard smooth. Preload comes next, which determines whether the shock can damp the motion in BOTH directions because a motorcycle both un-weights, and weights as it travels along. You should have enough sag to allow un-weighting (wheels extend to touch the ground on the other side of a bump), otherwise you go airborne. THE ONLY JOB OF THE SPRING IS TO SUPPORT THE WEIGHT, to achieve the CORRECT SAG POINT of a given bike and rider. That is it. The spring's job is to return all that mass back to "home" no matter what undulating surface you're riding over. Damping does all the rest of the work of controlling motion.
Yeah same for cars. Most people don't know the suspension wears out. My Honda was sitting 5cm higher after swapping out the 20yo suspension and it didn't drive far off from my brand new car. Most people compare old oem suspension vs brand new aftermarket.
Perhaps the difference between them is not about the feel. Maybe it's about the durability, or maybe it's about how well it handles different ambient conditions (like if it doesn't misbehave in very wet or very good conditions)
Have you looked at fitting the standard spring to the bitubo shock? That would (might) improve the spring rate issue. If it's already running an Ohlins spring there's a good chance they are interchangeable. You might get a great solution at no cost other than the labour...
@@ChaosCauses the numbers on the ohlins spring indicate it's length, diameter, and rate. You can look on racetechs site and get the dimensions for the r1 spring and see what spring rate is recommended for your weight and usage. I grafted the Yamaha shock on to a Firestorm with an ohlins spring and it is a better shock than my ktech razor lR on my MT. It's actually a pretty good shock for off the shelf. The bitubo will hsve a better piston design, but it is prob valved for track and his weight which would mean a lot heavier(stiffer) high speed dampening.
Both OEM and aftermarket shocks are capable of having their springs swapped. Having a rear sprung for your weight and a front that’s not is like wiping before you poop - it doesn’t make sense. They must be balanced for your weight and skill level.
No warranty expressed or implied! I have a vintage Tonti framed Guzzi from 1973. On standard shocks the "jacking" from the staff drive, as you brake into a roundabout, was scary. I fitted basic (not fully adjustable) Ohlins and the change was unbelievable. It's the progressiveness and control, perhaps, but they really do deliver. Are they better than great OEM? I don't know, but they are the benchmark.
You absolutely would have to do this comparison with both shocks with the correct spring and set up with at least sag/preload set. The better shocks have much better damping because the way the oil is forced through those tiny holes is more involved and precise. You also need to test in the same weather. Rain setup is completely different than dry. I did spend far too much time staring at my Ohlins suspension though. Tires are more important than a foo foo shock.
I'd go through the process of tuning that Bitubo to suit my riding and weight. It takes some time as you actually need to do it twice, the track and street setups are different. But, you'll be totally fine with that original shock too. It does have wider operating range so it'll be much easier to setup for mixed riding and it does have enough tuning range for most of the riders. In your forks, keep the Bitubo cartridges, just change the springs to the correct stiffness for your weight. That's something you may have to do for the original cartridges too as the original springs are pretty stiff. I have a -09 Fireblade and during this winter I'm going to upgrade the front suspension with at least a bit softer springs.
Subjective......personally id never tried "goog suspension" - but took the plunge on my old RSV4 factory with already installed oem ohlins and went for NiX30 fronts and a TTX mk2 rear (which was amazingly cheap and almost new) - ive never been on a race track and a comlete novice but my only description i can give was when pushing it "the hard you ride...the more compliant it becomes"....im glad i upgraded and feel that it was worth the money.
It's taken me many years to wrap my mind around what a shock is supposed to do, how that translates to the ride. And really, it's not that complicated, you just have to be able to separate principles in your mind. Not everyone is able to visualize and conceptualize physics and dynamics in their mind. Spring rate (x amount of pounds results in x amount of compression distance): crucial. Has to do with your riding weight (your flesh and all your suited-up gear self, total). This will control the RANGE of your suspension motion. Crucial to set the shock length (pro-squat behavior under throttle application, or anti-squat behavior under throttle application; it has to do with the relationship between your counter-sprocket, your rear axle, and the swing-arm pivot as a triangular geometric feature). Crucial to adjust the spring preload after a correct spring rate was chosen, to make sure sag is correct and the damping mechanisms can do their job properly. Damping "circuits" are merely orifices that control the resistance of oil flowing through them. Compression damping: In quality systems, this is usually controlled in 2 ways, "high speed" and "low speed". The speed has nothing to do with your speedometer. Speed is the rate of velocity that a bump in the road SMASHES your shock. High speed stuff is that which smashes the shock quickly. Low speed stuff would be like cruising over a set of rollers on a highway like a roller-coaster, weighting and unweighting the bike in undulation. High speed is those sharp edged expansion joints on the interstate that threaten to toss you off the motorcycle as they hit FAST and HARD. Rebound damping: After compression of any velocity is finished, rebound damping is the rate at which all the stored energy in the spring is released back to the preset amount (extended). Too quick, and the ride is harsh and bucky. Too slow and the ride is harsh and bucky. Not to confuse any of this with a spring rate that's just too firm (you should have already taken care of this before purchasing anything else). Ultimately a professional can examine a rear tire and tell you how well, or how poorly your shock is operating by the patterns of the rubber. This is easier on racetrack where the wear happens more quickly. A high quality shock with 4-way adjustment (spring preload, high and low speed compression damping, and rebound damping) with the correct spring rate will make a big difference over any OEM shock that has LESS capability. Depending on the bike, this might be moderately improved or drastically improved, it all depends on what you're starting with. All the same principles apply to the forks (high and low speed compression damping, rebound damping, and spring preload). Get a quality suspension with the correct spring rates, LIGHTWEIGHT WHEELS, and all of it adjusted to your riding conditions and preferences, and you'll be blown away how amazing it feels. You'll have much better confidence, much better traction in all conditions, more control entering and exiting corners, and your tires will wear evenly and less. You'll experience less fatigue on rides as your butt will glide over the surface instead of ping-pong and judder off everything.
Hi, I'm really loving the shock absorber series. It's one thing that we motorcyclists experience the least variety of. I feel my bikes rear suspension is stiff for me. I can feel each undulation on the road surface through the rear suspension. The ride quality is always busy. I was under the impression that aftermarket suspensions, if setup correctly, are good at absorbing sharp bumps whilst providing very good handling and stability in corners, which made them so expensive. But this video was a revelation for me, and helped me understand that an expensive aftermarket suspension does not necessarily mean comfort. I'm confused again. It's hard to find a bike the same model as you own which has aftermarket suspension setup which can be test ridden. And aftermarket suspensions are not inexpensive either for trial and error. Now I'm confused again 🙂. I hope you make more videos on suspensions, their setups, the detailed physics behind why each setting performa the way it perform and the factors with with which a beginner can judge the feel of a suspension setup. Thanks!
A spring is not expensive ... buy the right spring for your weight and type of riding for the Bitubo . It will perform exactly the same every ride regardless of temperature. It will not fade and get softer on a trackday due to heat (thinner oil). IF the standard spring fits the Bitubo it will feel just like the stock damper . Get it measured it might be wrong aswell (but feel better) The correct spring for ANY bike is the best investment you can make (and cheap) and a bike with tuned suspension is more comfy , safer , and faster than a engine tuned bike with a cool exhaust . Prio list : 1 GOOD gear and expensive helmet for the rider. 2 Suspension. 3 Brake setup. 4 tune 5 exhaust ..... and NEVER EVER on the list STUBBY ANODIZED levers !!! 😮😅
A suggestion for you. Usually you can remove the rear shock by simply placing a jack sitting between the top of the rear tire and under the tail/subframe. This unloads the bikes weight over the tire and as you remove the shocks mounting bolts you can simply remove the shock with the rear tire in place. Keep in mind you would have to use the jack to separate and reach the shocks unloaded length to do so.
I’ve swapped the rear shock on an 09 GSXR 750 and a 11 GSXR 750, both have really made a difference imo. Suzuki kinda skimps on suspension and brakes though so it naturally would. I put a Penske on 09 and K-tech on the 11, both bought second hand on eBay and set up for me professionally. I feel I have better control of the bike on road and track
I mean, I know you kind of recognized it’s not a fair comparison, but I don’t know if you recognize how much. To at all compare the two, they need to be set up the same, with the same spring rate. Even a stock shock may not be set up properly for an individual, and you may have to swap springs. Stock springs don’t have a weird quality to make them applicable to a wider variety of weighted riders. You didn’t actually compare anything, except that if you don’t set up your suspension, you might have no idea how much better or worse it could ride. The fact that you kept comparing between stock and aftermarket makes me think you don’t see the full gravity of setting it up. At the very LEAST, one should set up pre-load, but did you even change any settings on that? Set up is also not just for the dimensions of the rider, but rider style and skill. You should really have someone with a lot of knowledge help you set both up, and then see what you think.
Great video, tbh for average rides who do 99% of riding on the road, electronic suspension (if possible) is the best as you can change at any time. For hardcore racers, you still want all the adjustments that electronic and stock suspensions don't give you.
Well the mt07 have rebound or the other i dont remember what right now. its the 2014-2017 that dont have it. And the after market you can adjust springs as you said and aslo shims inside to make it feel diffrent with oil change in it. Use a other type of oil for you, change spring and change the shim stacks inside it. Its a lot you can do to make it feel like you wanna it to feel and perform.
On track - aftermarket suspension is beyond its worth if it’s sprung correctly and you know how to adjust it or have access to someone that knows what they’re doing. On the street - properly set up stock suspension is more than enough for 99.95 riders as long as it’s sprung and set up correctly. They’ll never admit it - saying the suspension is their limitation on the street but that’s just ego saying they require top tier track suspension. I believe the Bitubo has high and low speed compression and rebound where the stock R1 unit does not. Try closing the rebound 2-3 clicks and opening the compression 2-3 clicks on the Bitubo and I bet you’ll stop getting kicked out of the seat.
Hi, interesting test in my opinion. Like you say, are you going on track or driving on road? And also how often do you really adjust? Think about it! Me, not that many times in 30 years with the same bike😮😬😊😂
Stock suspension on modern bikes are really good, specially on sport bikes. I raced 2 years with my Yamaha R6R 2006 and had 0 problems other than being ahit at setting my suspension hahaha. An aftermarket suspension is better ON A RACETRACK if properly adjusted for your wheight and riding style. But you have to be a very very good rider to be able to squeeze that much out of an R6 or R1. I was middle of the grid so, the standard suspension was more than enough for me. On the street? Anyone with an ohlins is just a poser throwing away money. There is not enough grip or speed to justify the difference.
Hi bro! I'm excited to watch this video but today is my birthday and not a single person except my parents wished me.. But I'm just glad to be 17..❤ Much love❤
Swapping out the stock springs to one that matched my weight solved 99% of my issues. As well as servicing them with fresh oil and a new rubber bumper thingy. Mine bike was a zzr1400.
same with a talaria sing r the factory spirng was for a 270 lb person! wtf these oems doing to us
Spring rate is crucial. It assumes the natural starting point of the front and rear when you're seated and the surface is billiard smooth. Preload comes next, which determines whether the shock can damp the motion in BOTH directions because a motorcycle both un-weights, and weights as it travels along. You should have enough sag to allow un-weighting (wheels extend to touch the ground on the other side of a bump), otherwise you go airborne.
THE ONLY JOB OF THE SPRING IS TO SUPPORT THE WEIGHT, to achieve the CORRECT SAG POINT of a given bike and rider. That is it. The spring's job is to return all that mass back to "home" no matter what undulating surface you're riding over. Damping does all the rest of the work of controlling motion.
Yeah same for cars. Most people don't know the suspension wears out. My Honda was sitting 5cm higher after swapping out the 20yo suspension and it didn't drive far off from my brand new car. Most people compare old oem suspension vs brand new aftermarket.
Perhaps the difference between them is not about the feel. Maybe it's about the durability, or maybe it's about how well it handles different ambient conditions (like if it doesn't misbehave in very wet or very good conditions)
The main thing is that high end bikes already have good suspension, the difference is more noticeable with low end bikes
Yeah I don't think the stock R1 shock will bust any time soon either.
Have you looked at fitting the standard spring to the bitubo shock? That would (might) improve the spring rate issue. If it's already running an Ohlins spring there's a good chance they are interchangeable. You might get a great solution at no cost other than the labour...
That's a great idea! I never stopped to think if they would be the same size. I'll have a look- thanks!
@@ChaosCauses the numbers on the ohlins spring indicate it's length, diameter, and rate.
You can look on racetechs site and get the dimensions for the r1 spring and see what spring rate is recommended for your weight and usage.
I grafted the Yamaha shock on to a Firestorm with an ohlins spring and it is a better shock than my ktech razor lR on my MT.
It's actually a pretty good shock for off the shelf.
The bitubo will hsve a better piston design, but it is prob valved for track and his weight which would mean a lot heavier(stiffer) high speed dampening.
Both OEM and aftermarket shocks are capable of having their springs swapped.
Having a rear sprung for your weight and a front that’s not is like wiping before you poop - it doesn’t make sense. They must be balanced for your weight and skill level.
No warranty expressed or implied! I have a vintage Tonti framed Guzzi from 1973. On standard shocks the "jacking" from the staff drive, as you brake into a roundabout, was scary. I fitted basic (not fully adjustable) Ohlins and the change was unbelievable. It's the progressiveness and control, perhaps, but they really do deliver. Are they better than great OEM? I don't know, but they are the benchmark.
You're Right, If They Interchange, It's The Best Solution To This Problem. Thank You. (Like #16 - Reply #4)
You absolutely would have to do this comparison with both shocks with the correct spring and set up with at least sag/preload set. The better shocks have much better damping because the way the oil is forced through those tiny holes is more involved and precise. You also need to test in the same weather. Rain setup is completely different than dry. I did spend far too much time staring at my Ohlins suspension though. Tires are more important than a foo foo shock.
He had the track shock on the bike for four months. I imagine there were plenty of sunny days.
Just get the right spring for your weight for the Bitubo.
Obviously that’s the problem with the shock.
I'd go through the process of tuning that Bitubo to suit my riding and weight. It takes some time as you actually need to do it twice, the track and street setups are different. But, you'll be totally fine with that original shock too. It does have wider operating range so it'll be much easier to setup for mixed riding and it does have enough tuning range for most of the riders. In your forks, keep the Bitubo cartridges, just change the springs to the correct stiffness for your weight. That's something you may have to do for the original cartridges too as the original springs are pretty stiff. I have a -09 Fireblade and during this winter I'm going to upgrade the front suspension with at least a bit softer springs.
Subjective......personally id never tried "goog suspension" - but took the plunge on my old RSV4 factory with already installed oem ohlins and went for NiX30 fronts and a TTX mk2 rear (which was amazingly cheap and almost new) - ive never been on a race track and a comlete novice but my only description i can give was when pushing it "the hard you ride...the more compliant it becomes"....im glad i upgraded and feel that it was worth the money.
I hope your getting the correct spring fitted while the shock is out?
It's taken me many years to wrap my mind around what a shock is supposed to do, how that translates to the ride. And really, it's not that complicated, you just have to be able to separate principles in your mind. Not everyone is able to visualize and conceptualize physics and dynamics in their mind.
Spring rate (x amount of pounds results in x amount of compression distance): crucial. Has to do with your riding weight (your flesh and all your suited-up gear self, total). This will control the RANGE of your suspension motion. Crucial to set the shock length (pro-squat behavior under throttle application, or anti-squat behavior under throttle application; it has to do with the relationship between your counter-sprocket, your rear axle, and the swing-arm pivot as a triangular geometric feature). Crucial to adjust the spring preload after a correct spring rate was chosen, to make sure sag is correct and the damping mechanisms can do their job properly.
Damping "circuits" are merely orifices that control the resistance of oil flowing through them.
Compression damping: In quality systems, this is usually controlled in 2 ways, "high speed" and "low speed". The speed has nothing to do with your speedometer. Speed is the rate of velocity that a bump in the road SMASHES your shock. High speed stuff is that which smashes the shock quickly. Low speed stuff would be like cruising over a set of rollers on a highway like a roller-coaster, weighting and unweighting the bike in undulation. High speed is those sharp edged expansion joints on the interstate that threaten to toss you off the motorcycle as they hit FAST and HARD.
Rebound damping: After compression of any velocity is finished, rebound damping is the rate at which all the stored energy in the spring is released back to the preset amount (extended). Too quick, and the ride is harsh and bucky. Too slow and the ride is harsh and bucky. Not to confuse any of this with a spring rate that's just too firm (you should have already taken care of this before purchasing anything else).
Ultimately a professional can examine a rear tire and tell you how well, or how poorly your shock is operating by the patterns of the rubber. This is easier on racetrack where the wear happens more quickly.
A high quality shock with 4-way adjustment (spring preload, high and low speed compression damping, and rebound damping) with the correct spring rate will make a big difference over any OEM shock that has LESS capability. Depending on the bike, this might be moderately improved or drastically improved, it all depends on what you're starting with.
All the same principles apply to the forks (high and low speed compression damping, rebound damping, and spring preload). Get a quality suspension with the correct spring rates, LIGHTWEIGHT WHEELS, and all of it adjusted to your riding conditions and preferences, and you'll be blown away how amazing it feels. You'll have much better confidence, much better traction in all conditions, more control entering and exiting corners, and your tires will wear evenly and less. You'll experience less fatigue on rides as your butt will glide over the surface instead of ping-pong and judder off everything.
Hi, I'm really loving the shock absorber series. It's one thing that we motorcyclists experience the least variety of. I feel my bikes rear suspension is stiff for me. I can feel each undulation on the road surface through the rear suspension. The ride quality is always busy. I was under the impression that aftermarket suspensions, if setup correctly, are good at absorbing sharp bumps whilst providing very good handling and stability in corners, which made them so expensive. But this video was a revelation for me, and helped me understand that an expensive aftermarket suspension does not necessarily mean comfort. I'm confused again. It's hard to find a bike the same model as you own which has aftermarket suspension setup which can be test ridden. And aftermarket suspensions are not inexpensive either for trial and error. Now I'm confused again 🙂. I hope you make more videos on suspensions, their setups, the detailed physics behind why each setting performa the way it perform and the factors with with which a beginner can judge the feel of a suspension setup. Thanks!
A spring is not expensive ... buy the right spring for your weight and type of riding for the Bitubo . It will perform exactly the same every ride regardless of temperature. It will not fade and get softer on a trackday due to heat (thinner oil). IF the standard spring fits the Bitubo it will feel just like the stock damper . Get it measured it might be wrong aswell (but feel better) The correct spring for ANY bike is the best investment you can make (and cheap) and a bike with tuned suspension is more comfy , safer , and faster than a engine tuned bike with a cool exhaust . Prio list : 1 GOOD gear and expensive helmet for the rider. 2 Suspension. 3 Brake setup. 4 tune 5 exhaust ..... and NEVER EVER on the list STUBBY ANODIZED levers !!! 😮😅
A suggestion for you. Usually you can remove the rear shock by simply placing a jack sitting between the top of the rear tire and under the tail/subframe. This unloads the bikes weight over the tire and as you remove the shocks mounting bolts you can simply remove the shock with the rear tire in place. Keep in mind you would have to use the jack to separate and reach the shocks unloaded length to do so.
The best sunday afternoon entertainment!
TL;DW , If you have a Honda CRF300L (Rally), then yes.. it's 100% worth it.
(Kidding about TL;DW, def watch this, good shit as always)
The flybys were awesome!
I’ve swapped the rear shock on an 09 GSXR 750 and a 11 GSXR 750, both have really made a difference imo. Suzuki kinda skimps on suspension and brakes though so it naturally would. I put a Penske on 09 and K-tech on the 11, both bought second hand on eBay and set up for me professionally. I feel I have better control of the bike on road and track
I mean, I know you kind of recognized it’s not a fair comparison, but I don’t know if you recognize how much. To at all compare the two, they need to be set up the same, with the same spring rate. Even a stock shock may not be set up properly for an individual, and you may have to swap springs. Stock springs don’t have a weird quality to make them applicable to a wider variety of weighted riders. You didn’t actually compare anything, except that if you don’t set up your suspension, you might have no idea how much better or worse it could ride. The fact that you kept comparing between stock and aftermarket makes me think you don’t see the full gravity of setting it up. At the very LEAST, one should set up pre-load, but did you even change any settings on that? Set up is also not just for the dimensions of the rider, but rider style and skill. You should really have someone with a lot of knowledge help you set both up, and then see what you think.
Great video, tbh for average rides who do 99% of riding on the road, electronic suspension (if possible) is the best as you can change at any time. For hardcore racers, you still want all the adjustments that electronic and stock suspensions don't give you.
Well the mt07 have rebound or the other i dont remember what right now. its the 2014-2017 that dont have it.
And the after market you can adjust springs as you said and aslo shims inside to make it feel diffrent with oil change in it. Use a other type of oil for you, change spring and change the shim stacks inside it. Its a lot you can do to make it feel like you wanna it to feel and perform.
On track - aftermarket suspension is beyond its worth if it’s sprung correctly and you know how to adjust it or have access to someone that knows what they’re doing.
On the street - properly set up stock suspension is more than enough for 99.95 riders as long as it’s sprung and set up correctly. They’ll never admit it - saying the suspension is their limitation on the street but that’s just ego saying they require top tier track suspension.
I believe the Bitubo has high and low speed compression and rebound where the stock R1 unit does not.
Try closing the rebound 2-3 clicks and opening the compression 2-3 clicks on the Bitubo and I bet you’ll stop getting kicked out of the seat.
Mate, try a softer spring on that bitubo! Probably as a race package it has a 90/95kg spring, probably swap for an 85kg would help a lot
New right spring can fix it for less than 100€ :)
But stock is free...🤔
If the biggest difference left is the spring, isn't the best value for money upgrade to swap the spring on your stock setup?
Please try to swap the stock spring onto the biturbo shock. Than set all the dials to the middle and try if it fit's you better...
Nice comparison. I’m a big guy so the suspension has to be set up right. The less tighter spring wld be better for you.
Envious of where you live, great weather, smooth roads, & no traffic!
Would your best option not be to put the stock spring on the aftermarket shock?
Put the stock spring on the Bitubo shock.
Hmm it seems that you need another bike then- for track only where u can use that shock.
Haha the more bikes the better
Hi, interesting test in my opinion. Like you say, are you going on track or driving on road? And also how often do you really adjust? Think about it! Me, not that many times in 30 years with the same bike😮😬😊😂
I just got a Hornet 919, my shock is probably shit compared to that thing but feels more than ok so idk
Holy Crap your R1 sounds really good
Every aftermarket shock I've bought they ask which weight I want it sprung for. Get the right spring and then redo this video.
You could get the Bituba set up for you, and then do this test again with stock and Bituba
Bitubo*
Would you recommend upgrade on MT 07 stock suspension?
Stock suspension on modern bikes are really good, specially on sport bikes.
I raced 2 years with my Yamaha R6R 2006 and had 0 problems other than being ahit at setting my suspension hahaha.
An aftermarket suspension is better ON A RACETRACK if properly adjusted for your wheight and riding style. But you have to be a very very good rider to be able to squeeze that much out of an R6 or R1. I was middle of the grid so, the standard suspension was more than enough for me.
On the street? Anyone with an ohlins is just a poser throwing away money. There is not enough grip or speed to justify the difference.
That bike is sick man
Awesome video, please consider making a video on the cf moto 450 mt.😁
on track for you the bitubo is dangerous setup like this.
The R1 looks soooo ducking good
1MIN MY LUCK IS NUTS
Your rear axle nut is supposed to be on the right hand side dude
Now it's off the bike, sell it
Seem like your brake fuel time to replace.
3:39 japanese brembo? Dont insult brembo like this
good suspension is always worth it. It's a day and night difference
these can be adjusted and that you did not do
what a waste of your and own time
Love from india brother 😊😊
Yes.
1 minutes ago is crazy
indian stock just 35 dollar haha pulsar ns 200 or yahama fz 150
nah going w stock
Under 1 hour gang->
w
Hi bro!
I'm excited to watch this video but today is my birthday and not a single person except my parents wished me..
But I'm just glad to be 17..❤
Much love❤
Happy birthday to you
Happy Birthday
Happy birthday!🎉 Have a good day with your family!
Thanks y'all means alot♥️
@adityagoswami5712 yeah bro
The bike community always supports bro
Yes they are every penny...
Great film again!
Brappp