I personally don't think that Chibi saving Shiranui would be a time paradox any way you look at it. It is just an extremely self-reliant system of cause and effect. The Okami series' approach to time travel seems to be that all time travel is self consistant. That is, you can't change the past because all of your actions while in the past were always a part of history and thus you did not change anything. This is shown several times in the 9 months ago section, where we find how nanami actually met Chibi, and discover why the lucky mallet was on the sunken ship in Okami. Chibi saving Shiranui was always a part of history, it was just experienced out of order due to time travel.
Seeing Manpuku go is such a sad moment. He wants to stay with you but he also wants to protect his mom. It made me realize that Manpuku is such a nice character. He's cute and funny, but also flawed...
At some point, you kinda have to feel bad for Orochi. I get that he's an evil demon, but now everybody keeps traveling through time to kill him again and again and again.
Seth A. Campbell All these gods arriving through time and space to seal me then kill me with their freaky sidekicks, I just want to cover the world in darkness in peace *orochi boomer orochi boomer I regret nothing*
Okami has never shown past changing. As far as we can tell, it's a case of "you have already changed the past". Fate is a very strong concept in Japanese culture, so it makes good sense to use it here.
@@Benjamin1986980Time Travel in Okami wasn't a huge part of its narrative, but here it takes up the final quarter of the story, and leaving more room for potential paradoxical plot holes. The Stable Time Loop being established fixes that.
i know this video was from like 3 years ago but i like manpuku. hes a very different character. he is from the past so he has no real idea just what hes helping with. hes also doing this to save his mom
I feel like he'd generally be more respected if he figured more into the story. It somewhat feels like he was added in at the last minute, literally for the last minute, just the last stretch of the game. He is out of time, but what if he had had the opprotunity to interact with a world out of time 100 years later? I jsut felt there were some missed opprotunities, which explains some of the boring dialogue exchanges.
"Twi and La, push and pull, Moon and Ocean, Light and Dark, Good and Evil, Yin... and Yang." Quote from Koh: the Face-Stealer in Book 1: Water (I know I used the right words but they might not be in the exact order)
Or Chibi saving Shiranui and Is(s)haku just created a stable time loop, wherein Chibi HAS to go back in time to do just this - saving his predecessor wasn't the purpose behind going back, just a fortunate happening. So it could either be a paradox, or stabilising a time loop. Your choice.
+PokeMaster22222 I believe that what happened has a scientific term but it mainly means something happens so something else happens which makes the other event happen
It IS the coarse of Space-Time! In order for this to happen, he needs to go back at a certain point to save his grandpa, making him exist, without his existence, chibi wouldst've been born to free him...etc.
Thank you Chuggaaconroy, I lost this game and never got to complete it. the scene of Manpuku reuniting with his mother brought tears to my eyes. I'm a little overweight and i know i have a food problem, and that scene just shows the real love between mother and child,my own mother and me. that scene will make Manpuku my favorite character in the game forever. But I would not have even bothered with this game it were not for you. Thank you.
Eh, probably not. I'm not good with new people, really. I'd be all shy and probably not even talk to you until you came and talked to me. Then I'd get all huggy-huggy.
This is what I LOVE about this game it just sometimes makes you feel so emotional it's so cool to have a simple game like this and get this much emotion! I can't wait till the next episode! I'm so glad you decided to play this! It is one of my favorite games!!!
i know it will never happen between making it fun, interesting and all that other shit but it would be really awesome if they made a game where you played as shiranui
Not to mention Manpuku's determination. Even though he hasn't eaten in five whole minutes, and he is beginning to feel like his... energy... is... lacking... and even though it's soooooo hard to ride on a dog's back, he still troops through. His love of his mother is keeping him going. I think that Manpuku is an amazing character.
With all the time travel and the paradoxes in this game I'm starting to think the Doctor might have been on the production team...or will, be who knows...
There's a difference between a stable loop and a paradox. A stable loop can easily become a paradox, though. If anything were to happen to cause the loop to break, such as Chibi not saving Shiranui, Shiranui not saving Ammy, THEN a paradox would arise. But as long as the loop remains stable, the timeline is paradox free.
I just thought of something. Take a look at the three weapon types Ammy and Chibi use: Reflector, glaive, and beads. Recently I learned that Amaterasu had three special items that she is always depicted with: a mirror, a sword, and a beaded necklace. Perhaps these three weapons in Okami are to symbolize her three cherished items.
Chugga dont be so hard on Manpuku even if he was put last minute he really id a good character i prefer him over Nanami and Kuni because he is so mature and aware of his flaws and he tryes so hard to overcome them + his abilityes arent that bad bein invincible to peirce attacks and his hair is fire FIRE,and what you did wen u were freeing Shiranui was really mean and downgrading to him, really really really mean =(
+Dread Locks I thought I was the only one who noticed chuggaa not wanting to use manpuku's power in that scene >__< I laughed at first but the fact that chuggaa went out of his way to not use his fire multiple times was kinda ehhh to me.
You know there's even support that Shiranui knew what saving Ammy would bring in the future in Okami if you're willing to read between the lines of they saying goodbye to Shiranui scene in Okami. Shiranui smiles like he knows something. Personally I want Okami three to cover Shiranui because they hint at it SO MUCH it drives me crazy.
I really appreciate the effort that you put in to getting the DS recording working and the whole setup for Okamiden. It looks fantastic, and all your hard work really shows.
It'd be interesting to see what they might do with Manpukku's character in future Okami installments...they might show him maturing even further, still being very fond of food, but being in much better control of it. That would be pretty cool. X3
That final scene with Manpuku was so good! I almost cried! Manpuku has definitely earned his spot above Nanami and the first partner. The understanding of his flaws makes the scene more touching than the other two. (Flame-retardant suit equipped)
man this video is the best out of all other vids. its so heat touching it makes u think of ur mom and how much u love her. same as earthbound, mother1 and mother 3
I absolutely LOVE Okami and Okamiden. In fact, the reason I started watching you, Chuggaa, is because you Let's Played Okami and I couldn't believe a Let's Player was so excited about such an underrated game. I know it probably seems strange that I started watching your videos from something rather obscure, but your excitement about these beautiful and well-written games makes me so happy! I'm truly glad I got the chance to start watching your videos
It's great to have Kurow back, but you have to admire Manpuku for his loyalty and having very human flaws. Not like Kagu's tsundere personality or Kuni's "leaping before he thinks".
It is Phantom Hourglass. Back when Chugga was still doing Emerald, he posted an anniversary video. Throughout the video while he was talking there was music playing in the background. At one part, the music was from Pokemon Emerald, then Super Paper Mario, then Okamiden, and finally Phantom Hourglass
The event you described as a "time paradox" is in fact what is referred to as a "stable time loop" and is not in fact a paradox at all, but a cyclical event in time. In this situation, it appears paradoxical, but in fact, everything plays out in a cycle resulting in one event triggering another without any definite beginning or ending- Tvtropes has a large list of these kinds of events in stories. This is what happened with the Chibi-Shiranui-Amaterasu-Chibi cycle.
1:19 I thought that Shiranui went through the Spirit Gate and battled Letchku first and then went to Orochi's lair only to find the barrier and then went to the Ice Room for the Amber to bypass the barrier only to end up frozen and that was why he collapsed in the last episode?
No, he had stepped through the Time Gate before he was frozen. When Isshaku said that Shiranui didn't come back unscratched, it was because the demons drove the spear through him as he saved Oki. He went to the ice room regardless to get into the moon cave, but because of his injuries, he was quickly frozen.
All this talk about paradox's is pretty complicated. I always thought it was thanks to Chibi that Shiranui made it in time to help out Amaterasu but now that this was brought up... Im kinda confused.... Chuggaa I truly loved this game and im super happy that you did a lets play of it. Thank you, thank you so much for doing it.
I love how Manpuku was almost considering leaving his unconscience mother in the potential possibility of getting kidnapped by demons again just to help Chibi fight Orochi.
That history scroll led me into a theory of why Chibi is called Shiranui’s grandson in this game. And that theory is that Amaterasu is meant to be seen as Shiranui’s daughter similar to how Athena is Zeus’ daughter in Greek mythology though she simply sprouted from his head. Amaterasu was Technically reborn from Shiranui’s corpse when given her Reflector according to Orochi. Which, while insulting her on the matter, he had no reason to lie about that. Because of that, I personally believe Amaterasu is meant to be seen as Shiranui’s daughter when they’re really the same, even though Chibi is actually the child of Ammy.
You know, I was very much expecting Charity to do some fighting. I mean, not only does she seem to have the personality for it, but she has a GIANT FREAKING MEAT CLEAVER on her back. Kind of disappointing for me. Still happy that she got saved. :)
It's a very common thought to think that interacting with your past only creates paradoxes. But it's very easy to think that you have to make some event from your own past happen to young you so they grow up to eventually do that event themself. Otherwise, you end up with future you having memories that never happened. There's a great short story by Robert Heinlein called "All You Zombies" that is entirely about this concept.
I just realized that Kagu is even more awesome than I thought. That charm she made allows Chibi to travel to anywhere or anywhen he has been so long as it has an Ultimate Mirror. How's that for powerful.
Chuggaa, what you address at the start in not a paradox, but what is known as a "stable time loop". Shiranui is saved by Chibi, he saves Ammy, who births Chibi, who, in turn, saves Shiranui, ensuring his own existance.
It's a bit of a self-contained paradox, in that actions from the future influence the past, which influence the future, etc. It's something of a 'Time Loop,' and theoretically it can work.
did anyone notice the wrong saying at the end? it said "AMATERASU" is going to fight orochi but it was shirinui when it was 100 years in the past, right?
i saw okamiden the other day and was going to pick it up but realized i had forgotten my debit card :( when i went back the next day it was gone :< i really hope i find another copy soon as this is one game i would love to play after seeing you play through this chugga! Ty for showing me another series that i can fall in love with!
This kind of time travel paradox is called a self-fulling paradox or a causality loop. Basically that means that every thing that happened to Ammy, Chibi, and Siranui was always going to happen because it already happened. Chibi travels back to save Siranui, which allows Siranui to travel in to the future to save Ammy, which allows Chibi to be born, which allows Chibi to travel back to save Siranui.
I love it how Kurow balances on one foot when he lands! It must be really, really hard to stay balanced on thoughs shoes already, then only on one?! No wonder he flys everywhere he goes instead of walking!!
there's a story from the Grimm's Fairytales of a step-mother killing and cooking her step-son into a stew and feeding him to his father(bone and everything) but he eventually became a humming bird and sang a song about a juniper tree and his fate. You can look up the rest.
manpuku is so sweet he is always thinking about others no himself especially when he saved his mum though it was sooooooo sad when he left i can't stop crying =3
I always thought the time sequence in this section went some thing like this 1. Something frees Shiranui 2. Shiranui reincarnates/fathers Ammy 3. Ammy gives birth to Chibi 4. Chibi travels back in time to turn out the something that saves Shiranui (Some steps missing for clarity and due to spoilers) This is more like a closed time-like curve (yes that is the official name for it) then a paradox. Since the wikipedia article is a bit complex I recommend searching tvtropes for Stable Time Loop.
actually, looking at the okami series we see that when you enter the past you figure out that your involvement hasn't changed history rather it has always been a part of history so it is impossible (according to okami to actually influence history, that being said you can use time travel to influence the present.
no chuggaconroy, you shouldn't be glad that there are people who can't wait for the next episode...BECAUSE YOU MAKE US WAIT A FULL DAY AND I CAN'T STAND HAVING TO WAIT EVERY SINGLE TIME A COME BACK HOME TO WATCH YOUR VIDEOS FIRST THING AND.... long story short, you rock, chugga:)
Self fulfilling prophecy: Precedent, David Lister. He's his own father in the Television show Red Dwarf, and travels back in time to place himself in a cardboard box with "Ouroboros", an ancient symbol for circularity or infinity. (His adoptive parents thought it was "Our Rob, or Ross") I can't remember the actual name of the paradox itself but it's... "this is OK because it all lines up". Not really a plothole, but a stretch based on our perceptions of time travel.
Omg, I can't wait for the next few videos. The suspense is really building up...and the end scene was so touching. And Kurow is acting kind of suspicious...
technically one time theory states that if someone time travels they were meant to time travel. basically anything you do when you are in the past was already done by you to set things the way they are. it's an explanation that needs an example or to actually be talking to the person making the explanation to make sense though
This does explain just WHY there wasn't a barrier 100 Years in the Past in Okami though. Chibi destroyed it and it wasn't just Orochi being arrogant like Issun thought back in Okami. 11:30 THAT is a true plot-hole right there! There was no trapdoor there in Okami and Amaterasu would hve activated it if there ws one.
Another great vid, Chugga. I was beside myself with laughter at Manpuku eating that soup. Strange thing is, I kinda saw it coming, and yet I still found it hilarious! Also, I think that thing with Chibi and Shiranui is actually a stable time loop, not a paradox. It's only really a paradox if one of the events leading up to it -like Chibi's birth- had never occurred. Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey and all that. Anyway, can't wait for the next vid! Keep up the brilliant work! :) Yay! Kurow's back! XD
I kinda agree but thinking about what Chugga said, there must have been something there that was going to free Shiranui in the first place. Makes me wonder what, or who, it was, you know? Plus that amber was able to break the barrier to the moon cave, much like the serpent crystal a certain friend used to have, & had to have gotten from the same place we did. Also, how the freak did Kurow get in there before we did?! o_O Did that certain friend help him get in there after the past was altered?
Actually, Ishaku said that Shiranui got gurt fighting demons. It's possible he meant that Shiranui fought the owl.demons and saved Ammy (cuz he got hurt) then they went back in time, somehow got looped into going into the cave and eventually getting frozen. Then Chibi (or someone else) comes along and unfreezes them which gives Shiranui a reason to be late to the fight with Orochi. For me, it just makes more sense if Shiranui helped Ammy before being frozen in that cave.
[2:00] not just any paradox, a Predestination Paradox, where a time traveler goes back in time and influences an event. This influence then becomes the reason the time traveler influenced the event in the first place.
I think that the reason a lot of people like manpuku can be seen in the ending of this episode :) such a great partner in my opinion, a lot of sentimental value yet a humorous side, kinda reminds me of myself.
Again, Chugga, I'd like to say that Manpuku is also easier for people to relate to than the others. Kuni's a partial amnesiac, Nanami's a mermaid, Kagu has spiritual powers, and Kurow is a flying surfer dude from the moon (seriously, I can't get over that!). Manpuku, on the other hand, is relatively normal, with a very real fear: the fear of losing one's parent. Also, I like him because of what's going to happen in a couple of episodes. :P
I like Manpuku the best, personally. He's the most likeable, and he doesn't try to hide anything. He's also a good role model, because he has problems, and he knows, but he works past them to save those important to him.
about the time paradox i think its more of like a loop...and cause we're dealing with time travel it gets kinda confusing....i think the best way to explain it is by watching the dr.who episode blink...cause something similar happens there...
I've been enjoying every minute of each of your updates everyday look forward to your okamiden videos everyday getting an explanation of the characters and who they represent in Japanese mythology and now when I play this game again I'll probley not think of all the charcters the same again since I know what they represent :)
I personally don't think that Chibi saving Shiranui would be a time paradox any way you look at it. It is just an extremely self-reliant system of cause and effect. The Okami series' approach to time travel seems to be that all time travel is self consistant. That is, you can't change the past because all of your actions while in the past were always a part of history and thus you did not change anything. This is shown several times in the 9 months ago section, where we find how nanami actually met Chibi, and discover why the lucky mallet was on the sunken ship in Okami. Chibi saving Shiranui was always a part of history, it was just experienced out of order due to time travel.
Seeing Manpuku go is such a sad moment. He wants to stay with you but he also wants to protect his mom. It made me realize that Manpuku is such a nice character. He's cute and funny, but also flawed...
At some point, you kinda have to feel bad for Orochi. I get that he's an evil demon, but now everybody keeps traveling through time to kill him again and again and again.
Seth A. Campbell
All these gods arriving through time and space to seal me then kill me with their freaky sidekicks, I just want to cover the world in darkness in peace
*orochi boomer orochi boomer I regret nothing*
Dammit, Chugga, a stable time loop is NOT a time paradox!
Okami has never shown past changing. As far as we can tell, it's a case of "you have already changed the past".
Fate is a very strong concept in Japanese culture, so it makes good sense to use it here.
@@Benjamin1986980Time Travel in Okami wasn't a huge part of its narrative, but here it takes up the final quarter of the story, and leaving more room for potential paradoxical plot holes. The Stable Time Loop being established fixes that.
Manpuku may not be the coolest but he does have a heart warming story
Nice pun
i know this video was from like 3 years ago but i like manpuku. hes a very different character. he is from the past so he has no real idea just what hes helping with. hes also doing this to save his mom
I know thats why i said 3 years ago
I feel like he'd generally be more respected if he figured more into the story. It somewhat feels like he was added in at the last minute, literally for the last minute, just the last stretch of the game.
He is out of time, but what if he had had the opprotunity to interact with a world out of time 100 years later? I jsut felt there were some missed opprotunities, which explains some of the boring dialogue exchanges.
So Chugga made his own way to record ds games, that's pretty bad ass I have to say.
"Twi and La, push and pull, Moon and Ocean, Light and Dark, Good and Evil, Yin... and Yang."
Quote from Koh: the Face-Stealer in Book 1: Water (I know I used the right words but they might not be in the exact order)
Or Chibi saving Shiranui and Is(s)haku just created a stable time loop, wherein Chibi HAS to go back in time to do just this - saving his predecessor wasn't the purpose behind going back, just a fortunate happening.
So it could either be a paradox, or stabilising a time loop. Your choice.
+PokeMaster22222 I believe that what happened has a scientific term but it mainly means something happens so something else happens which makes the other event happen
It IS the coarse of Space-Time!
In order for this to happen, he needs to go back at a certain point to save his grandpa, making him exist, without his existence, chibi wouldst've been born to free him...etc.
it's called the butterfly effect
Blitzwarrior Minecrafter that's one changing something in the past completely changes the future
Thank you Chuggaaconroy, I lost this game and never got to complete it. the scene of Manpuku reuniting with his mother brought tears to my eyes. I'm a little overweight and i know i have a food problem, and that scene just shows the real love between mother and child,my own mother and me. that scene will make Manpuku my favorite character in the game forever.
But I would not have even bothered with this game it were not for you. Thank you.
11:10
The problems of being fat. I know them well.
-And- cute~
So~
Very~
*CUTE~*
That's still cute.
I just wanna pinch your cheeks~
Eh, probably not.
I'm not good with new people, really. I'd be all shy and probably not even talk to you until you came and talked to me.
Then I'd get all huggy-huggy.
Maybe...
This is what I LOVE about this game it just sometimes makes you feel so emotional it's so cool to have a simple game like this and get this much emotion! I can't wait till the next episode! I'm so glad you decided to play this! It is one of my favorite games!!!
Now I want to see EVERYONE commenting for Chugga to divide by zero with lightning!!
9:28 AWWWW!!!!
i know it will never happen between making it fun, interesting and all that other shit but it would be really awesome if they made a game where you played as shiranui
5 years later and I agree my friend
Not to mention Manpuku's determination. Even though he hasn't eaten in five whole minutes, and he is beginning to feel like his... energy... is... lacking... and even though it's soooooo hard to ride on a dog's back, he still troops through. His love of his mother is keeping him going. I think that Manpuku is an amazing character.
With all the time travel and the paradoxes in this game I'm starting to think the Doctor might have been on the production team...or will, be who knows...
There's a difference between a stable loop and a paradox. A stable loop can easily become a paradox, though. If anything were to happen to cause the loop to break, such as Chibi not saving Shiranui, Shiranui not saving Ammy, THEN a paradox would arise. But as long as the loop remains stable, the timeline is paradox free.
Man puku's loyalty literally made me cry...
And again, anyone else get the feels when Manpuku and his mom reunited?
I just thought of something. Take a look at the three weapon types Ammy and Chibi use: Reflector, glaive, and beads. Recently I learned that Amaterasu had three special items that she is always depicted with: a mirror, a sword, and a beaded necklace. Perhaps these three weapons in Okami are to symbolize her three cherished items.
+SilverWolfDragon28 No, they're based on the Imperial Regalia, 3 different sacred treasures, of Japan.
KaptainKory that could also be the case
Not "could", it IS the case. It is a fact, if you do the proper research.
It's both. The Imperial Regalia is said to come from Amaterasu in the mythology...
Chugga already pointed that out.
Omg I can't wait for the next one!!! I love the okami series and I love watching you play them! :D
Chugga dont be so hard on Manpuku even if he was put last minute he really id a good character i prefer him over Nanami and Kuni because he is so mature and aware of his flaws and he tryes so hard to overcome them + his abilityes arent that bad bein invincible to peirce attacks and his hair is fire FIRE,and what you did wen u were freeing Shiranui was really mean and downgrading to him, really really really mean =(
+Dread Locks I thought I was the only one who noticed chuggaa not wanting to use manpuku's power in that scene >__< I laughed at first but the fact that chuggaa went out of his way to not use his fire multiple times was kinda ehhh to me.
You know there's even support that Shiranui knew what saving Ammy would bring in the future in Okami if you're willing to read between the lines of they saying goodbye to Shiranui scene in Okami. Shiranui smiles like he knows something.
Personally I want Okami three to cover Shiranui because they hint at it SO MUCH it drives me crazy.
actually shiranui is male
Shiranui is male, Amaterasu is female, and Chibiterasu is male. Shiranui reincarnated into Amaterasu after a 100-year gap.
I really appreciate the effort that you put in to getting the DS recording working and the whole setup for Okamiden. It looks fantastic, and all your hard work really shows.
That Scene with Manpuku and his Mum was so touching ;-; now Manpuku is equal to Kagu in my eyes
It'd be interesting to see what they might do with Manpukku's character in future Okami installments...they might show him maturing even further, still being very fond of food, but being in much better control of it. That would be pretty cool. X3
That final scene with Manpuku was so good!
I almost cried! Manpuku has definitely earned his spot above Nanami and the first partner.
The understanding of his flaws makes the scene more touching than the other two.
(Flame-retardant suit equipped)
This part was very touching. Chugga, you have gotten me into okamiden and Okami as well. Keep up the great work, this is an amazing lp
What is it with this game making me tear up? Its so freaking cute and sad. Chibi is so huggable and he loves giving hugs.
Both Okami and Okamiden tickled my fancy. I love both games.
Some of the cutscenes in Okamiden are very touching especially the cutscene between Manpuku and Chibi
im so sad at that leaving scene for manpuku but at the same time glad kurow's back
I love how at the end manpuku's like i'll be by your side before you can say all you can eat! XD chibi can't talk so obviously
chibi and manpuku hugging one last time made me tear up :'(
That parting scene. THAT's why I love Manpuku. Right there.
man this video is the best out of all other vids. its so heat touching it makes u think of ur mom and how much u love her. same as earthbound, mother1 and mother 3
I always cry at these good-by's
The scene when manpoku reunites with his mother is so heart warming.
I absolutely LOVE Okami and Okamiden. In fact, the reason I started watching you, Chuggaa, is because you Let's Played Okami and I couldn't believe a Let's Player was so excited about such an underrated game. I know it probably seems strange that I started watching your videos from something rather obscure, but your excitement about these beautiful and well-written games makes me so happy! I'm truly glad I got the chance to start watching your videos
you're doing a great job chugga i can't believe this LP is almost over i have loved it so much thank you:)
actually technically Waka can see the future, much like chugga says in a future episode, maybe Waka knew more then he let on
It's nice to see Manpuku and his Mom reunited at last. With Kurow by Chibiterasu's side once more, I can hardly wait for the next episode!
I'm actually jealous of Manpuku. Dude! I want to be able to turn into a bowl and turn simple, raw meat into a gourmet dinner!
YES. I loved the finale of Okami. It was so well done, hope this one will be done just as well.
It's great to have Kurow back, but you have to admire Manpuku for his loyalty and having very human flaws. Not like Kagu's tsundere personality or Kuni's "leaping before he thinks".
Chuggaa, you've really did a great job making this LP, and showed me another truly magnificent game. You're the best chuggaa!
Chuggaaconroy, one of the very few who can record one part of a video a week before the second part and STILL have the flow in the video not change
kurow always makes a cool entrance
That's not a paradox. That's merely a stable time loop, an action whose consequences end up being the action itself.
It is Phantom Hourglass. Back when Chugga was still doing Emerald, he posted an anniversary video. Throughout the video while he was talking there was music playing in the background. At one part, the music was from Pokemon Emerald, then Super Paper Mario, then Okamiden, and finally Phantom Hourglass
"I'm one liver short..." I have to start using that...
The event you described as a "time paradox" is in fact what is referred to as a "stable time loop" and is not in fact a paradox at all, but a cyclical event in time. In this situation, it appears paradoxical, but in fact, everything plays out in a cycle resulting in one event triggering another without any definite beginning or ending- Tvtropes has a large list of these kinds of events in stories. This is what happened with the Chibi-Shiranui-Amaterasu-Chibi cycle.
It's not really a paradox. It's a stable time loop. A>B>C>A Standard fiction fare.
1:19 I thought that Shiranui went through the Spirit Gate and battled Letchku first and then went to Orochi's lair only to find the barrier and then went to the Ice Room for the Amber to bypass the barrier only to end up frozen and that was why he collapsed in the last episode?
No, he had stepped through the Time Gate before he was frozen. When Isshaku said that Shiranui didn't come back unscratched, it was because the demons drove the spear through him as he saved Oki. He went to the ice room regardless to get into the moon cave, but because of his injuries, he was quickly frozen.
5:05
Can't wait to see the Feather Sword 6 months from now!
All this talk about paradox's is pretty complicated. I always thought it was thanks to Chibi that Shiranui made it in time to help out Amaterasu but now that this was brought up... Im kinda confused.... Chuggaa I truly loved this game and im super happy that you did a lets play of it. Thank you, thank you so much for doing it.
The third tier rosary seems to be performing more like the rosaries in Okami. Those are the rosaries I've come to know and love.
I love how Manpuku was almost considering leaving his unconscience mother in the potential possibility of getting kidnapped by demons again just to help Chibi fight Orochi.
That history scroll led me into a theory of why Chibi is called Shiranui’s grandson in this game. And that theory is that Amaterasu is meant to be seen as Shiranui’s daughter similar to how Athena is Zeus’ daughter in Greek mythology though she simply sprouted from his head. Amaterasu was Technically reborn from Shiranui’s corpse when given her Reflector according to Orochi. Which, while insulting her on the matter, he had no reason to lie about that. Because of that, I personally believe Amaterasu is meant to be seen as Shiranui’s daughter when they’re really the same, even though Chibi is actually the child of Ammy.
You know, I was very much expecting Charity to do some fighting. I mean, not only does she seem to have the personality for it, but she has a GIANT FREAKING MEAT CLEAVER on her back.
Kind of disappointing for me. Still happy that she got saved. :)
Manpuku needs to have his own game!
It's a very common thought to think that interacting with your past only creates paradoxes.
But it's very easy to think that you have to make some event from your own past happen to young you so they grow up to eventually do that event themself.
Otherwise, you end up with future you having memories that never happened.
There's a great short story by Robert Heinlein called "All You Zombies" that is entirely about this concept.
Well, actually, Aji stated that the soup was only fish broth at that point, so Manpuku had nothing to worry about.
I just realized that Kagu is even more awesome than I thought. That charm she made allows Chibi to travel to anywhere or anywhen he has been so long as it has an Ultimate Mirror. How's that for powerful.
Chuggaa, what you address at the start in not a paradox, but what is known as a "stable time loop". Shiranui is saved by Chibi, he saves Ammy, who births Chibi, who, in turn, saves Shiranui, ensuring his own existance.
The last episode was a stable time loop. Really common concept. It assumes that presence in the past does not change the past.
It's a bit of a self-contained paradox, in that actions from the future influence the past, which influence the future, etc.
It's something of a 'Time Loop,' and theoretically it can work.
did anyone notice the wrong saying at the end? it said "AMATERASU" is going to fight orochi but it was shirinui when it was 100 years in the past, right?
i saw okamiden the other day and was going to pick it up but realized i had forgotten my debit card :( when i went back the next day it was gone :< i really hope i find another copy soon as this is one game i would love to play after seeing you play through this chugga! Ty for showing me another series that i can fall in love with!
This kind of time travel paradox is called a self-fulling paradox or a causality loop. Basically that means that every thing that happened to Ammy, Chibi, and Siranui was always going to happen because it already happened. Chibi travels back to save Siranui, which allows Siranui to travel in to the future to save Ammy, which allows Chibi to be born, which allows Chibi to travel back to save Siranui.
I love the Rosary in this one. It's actually quite good because it pauses the opponent for a bit if you combo it.
I love it how Kurow balances on one foot when he lands! It must be really, really hard to stay balanced on thoughs shoes already, then only on one?! No wonder he flys everywhere he goes instead of walking!!
there's a story from the Grimm's Fairytales of a step-mother killing and cooking her step-son into a stew and feeding him to his father(bone and everything) but he eventually became a humming bird and sang a song about a juniper tree and his fate. You can look up the rest.
manpuku is so sweet he is always thinking about others no himself especially when he saved his mum though it was sooooooo sad when he left i can't stop crying =3
DAE think the light rock formation on the left from 11:56 to 12:06 look like the Sackboy from Little Big Planet?
I always thought the time sequence in this section went some thing like this
1. Something frees Shiranui
2. Shiranui reincarnates/fathers Ammy
3. Ammy gives birth to Chibi
4. Chibi travels back in time to turn out the something that saves Shiranui
(Some steps missing for clarity and due to spoilers)
This is more like a closed time-like curve (yes that is the official name for it) then a paradox. Since the wikipedia article is a bit complex I recommend searching tvtropes for Stable Time Loop.
actually, looking at the okami series we see that when you enter the past you figure out that your involvement hasn't changed history rather it has always been a part of history so it is impossible (according to okami to actually influence history, that being said you can use time travel to influence the present.
Also Shirinui KNOWS Chibbi is his grandson yet he says NOTHING to ammy
no chuggaconroy, you shouldn't be glad that there are people who can't wait for the next episode...BECAUSE YOU MAKE US WAIT A FULL DAY AND I CAN'T STAND HAVING TO WAIT EVERY SINGLE TIME A COME BACK HOME TO WATCH YOUR VIDEOS FIRST THING AND.... long story short, you rock, chugga:)
Self fulfilling prophecy: Precedent, David Lister. He's his own father in the Television show Red Dwarf, and travels back in time to place himself in a cardboard box with "Ouroboros", an ancient symbol for circularity or infinity. (His adoptive parents thought it was "Our Rob, or Ross") I can't remember the actual name of the paradox itself but it's... "this is OK because it all lines up". Not really a plothole, but a stretch based on our perceptions of time travel.
Omg, I can't wait for the next few videos. The suspense is really building up...and the end scene was so touching. And Kurow is acting kind of suspicious...
technically one time theory states that if someone time travels they were meant to time travel. basically anything you do when you are in the past was already done by you to set things the way they are. it's an explanation that needs an example or to actually be talking to the person making the explanation to make sense though
This does explain just WHY there wasn't a barrier 100 Years in the Past in Okami though. Chibi destroyed it and it wasn't just Orochi being arrogant like Issun thought back in Okami. 11:30 THAT is a true plot-hole right there! There was no trapdoor there in Okami and Amaterasu would hve activated it if there ws one.
Another great vid, Chugga. I was beside myself with laughter at Manpuku eating that soup. Strange thing is, I kinda saw it coming, and yet I still found it hilarious! Also, I think that thing with Chibi and Shiranui is actually a stable time loop, not a paradox.
It's only really a paradox if one of the events leading up to it -like Chibi's birth- had never occurred. Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey and all that. Anyway, can't wait for the next vid! Keep up the brilliant work! :) Yay! Kurow's back! XD
I kinda agree but thinking about what Chugga said, there must have been something there that was going to free Shiranui in the first place. Makes me wonder what, or who, it was, you know? Plus that amber was able to break the barrier to the moon cave, much like the serpent crystal a certain friend used to have, & had to have gotten from the same place we did. Also, how the freak did Kurow get in there before we did?! o_O
Did that certain friend help him get in there after the past was altered?
Actually, Ishaku said that Shiranui got gurt fighting demons. It's possible he meant that Shiranui fought the owl.demons and saved Ammy (cuz he got hurt) then they went back in time, somehow got looped into going into the cave and eventually getting frozen. Then Chibi (or someone else) comes along and unfreezes them which gives Shiranui a reason to be late to the fight with Orochi. For me, it just makes more sense if Shiranui helped Ammy before being frozen in that cave.
[2:00] not just any paradox, a Predestination Paradox, where a time traveler goes back in time and influences an event. This influence then becomes the reason the time traveler influenced the event in the first place.
im finally caught up to ur episodes of this i cannot wait for more.
I think that the reason a lot of people like manpuku can be seen in the ending of this episode :) such a great partner in my opinion, a lot of sentimental value yet a humorous side, kinda reminds me of myself.
anyone notice that the top and bottom screen are slightly de-synched
Again, Chugga, I'd like to say that Manpuku is also easier for people to relate to than the others. Kuni's a partial amnesiac, Nanami's a mermaid, Kagu has spiritual powers, and Kurow is a flying surfer dude from the moon (seriously, I can't get over that!). Manpuku, on the other hand, is relatively normal, with a very real fear: the fear of losing one's parent. Also, I like him because of what's going to happen in a couple of episodes. :P
For some reason this does not feel like it should end.
I like Manpuku the best, personally. He's the most likeable, and he doesn't try to hide anything. He's also a good role model, because he has problems, and he knows, but he works past them to save those important to him.
about the time paradox i think its more of like a loop...and cause we're dealing with time travel it gets kinda confusing....i think the best way to explain it is by watching the dr.who episode blink...cause something similar happens there...
I've been enjoying every minute of each of your updates everyday look forward to your okamiden videos everyday getting an explanation of the characters and who they represent in Japanese mythology and now when I play this game again I'll probley not think of all the charcters the same again since I know what they represent :)
we can all thank a strange old man in a blue box running for teaching us how time works and how space works too
yeah, it stays stable as long as each one returns to their own time everytime