AIO Radiator Placement - Front vs Top & Push vs Pull, plus a look Mounting Orientation
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- Hi folks,
I've been a top mounted guy for a long while but when I am being forced to front mount an AIO (video coming up), I thought it was a good time to put it to the test, what is better for overall system temps (CPU & GPU) when front and top mounting your radiator.
We also cover the placement in relation to the pump in order for the AIO to work properly and last longer. Links below to Gamers Nexus and Jayztwocents who originally covered this and did a better job than me :-)
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Jayztwocents • STOP DOING THIS!!!!!!!
System Specs
CPU: i7 10700k
Motherboard: Asus Z490-G
Ram: 32gb 3600 Trident Z Neo
Cooler: Corsair H100i Pro RGB XT
NVME: 1tb Adata SX8200 Pro
HDD: 2* 2tb Seagate Barracuda
GPU: AMD RX6800
Case: Fractal Design Define 7 Compact
PSU: Corsair RM850X
Please let me know if you have any questions.
thanks, Wayne
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Great video. I was set on top-mounting my Kraken X-63 in my BeQuiet 500DX, only to find it wouldn’t fit. I panicked, but it forced me to consider front-mounting as an option, and in doing so I find that many, such as yourself, are getting cooler temperatures with front mounting. So I’ll do that, and before installing make sure I’ve worked all air I can into the top of the radiator and do my best to keep the pump lower than the top of the radiator. Not bad, not bad.
what size did you get? I also have a bequiet 500dx but I'm set on a top-mounted 240mm mainly just for aesthetics. Not sure if the IDCOOLING Zoomflow I ordered will fit properly
I've mounted the Bequiet 280 aio in my 500DX, it requires that you install the fans on the radiator first which I didn't know so caused me a headache for a minute. Anyways I'm having it pull air because someone tested that push produced higher temps. Also my tubes are down barely, I wish they'd made them just an inch longer but oh well. A 360 would require removing the hard drive cage to get the tubes down unless you mounted them at the top which then you can just move it right 1 screw hole.
I got a Corsair H115i (280) Capellix AIO for my Lian Li Lancool II Mesh. I was planning to put the cooler on top but my motherboard didn’t have enough clearance for the RAM, the radiator got in the way. (I got an Asus Prime Z690-P Wi-Fi D4 mobo. The ram slots go up to 1/2” from the top edge. More high end mobos would surely have the ram lower down).
But now watching this video and thinking more about it I don’t have a problem with front mounted radiator, just make sure you have excellent airflow coming in. I’m doing push/pull with 4x140mm fans, 2 Lian Li fans that came with the performance case version, and 2 ML140 Corsair RGB’s that came with the cooler (placed on the inside for looks). I ordered 2 more ML140 Pros for the top exhaust.
Simple clear & concise, bruv no joke I've watched 4-5 videos from maybe some of the top pc builders on youtube they love to over complicate things not to mention one says this is better and the other says it's wrong! thanks! I subbed also.
Cheers dude. I like to keep things straightforward where possible because anything else is just fluff and more about self promotion instead of the actual thing at hand.
@@WayneWebbFilms keep it up! your efforts will pay off!
Yeah, I swear they do that shit on purpose to make you watch their videos longer, plus so they can make another vague video about it later on.
Exactly the video I was looking for; for my second "end game" build, thank you. Left a like. 👍
I got hammered for daring to front mount an AIO with the tubes up even though I ran one that way in a previous system for five years with no issues. People only watched a portion of Steve's video and became AIO experts. I usually like to top mount, but it depends on clearance. You showed exactly the proper way to mount them depending on your case.
People love to think they're experts when they're anything but :)
Steve can be hard to follow sometimes, he's so smart that he forgets to dumb things down sometimes, enter stage left Jayztwocents to bridge the gap :)
Yeah I have ran front with tubes on top for a few years now and I just got a 3080 FE and moved my rad to the top like I was told and my cpu temps went up to 90c at one point
@@rolledtaco Dang thanks for the honesty... I have a push pull config right now on my first build with a 5950x and a 3080ti and getting 63-68 C for the CPU and 66-70 C on the GPU all depending on the ambient room temp. Wasn't sure if I picked the best orientation
@@BlackBruceLeeTheGreatDekuTree yeah my current orientation is front mounted radiator with 3 fans blowing air through it into the case and then two fans on the top sucking air out and one on the back sucking air out. My CPU now sits at 45-55c and gpu peaks at 65c. It also probably would be good to mention that I am not playing the intensive games I was playing before. These Temps are in warframe and BO3 zombies. ALSO I live in Washington and the outside Temps on my last comment were in the 100s and now they are in the 50 to 60s so maybe that helps.
Literally as long as the highest point of the loop is higher than what cools the cpu, you're good. Morons 🤦🏻
I have watched the Gamers nexus on this, but I found your video more simple to understand. Obviiously its good to have in detail but it can be complex. Thanks for the explanation, I understand it much better now.
Very interesting. Thanks for doing the tests
Thanks for the content and for the testing. Very informative.
Really good video and well explained, I'm looking to upgrade my PC case to Lian O11D mini.
At the moment I have the AIO cooler mounted on the top but I currently use a 2GB passive GPU as I don't really play games.
Nonetheless there's some really good points raised, I will consider morning the cooler to the front/side with the new case.
Also mentioned in the video having the tubes at the top or bottom with the front orientation I would have thought over a period of time the fluid inside will gradually decrease or may not be topped up fully.
This may cause problems in the future, one more thing in motor vehicles there's one tube near the bottom which is intake gravity will feed the intake along with pump.
Just wanted to know everyone's opinion.
The O11 Mini is excellent and if you have a 240/280 AIO, then putting it in the back is easily the best position in that case. With a passive GPU, I don't think positioning will have much of an effect on temps. It is probably not giving off much heat, but if you were to upgrade you will see the difference.
when you front mounted your aio, did you have the top fans acting as exhaust or intake?
There are videos that are coming out 3 years after this, and they aren't as informative let alone short or relative info per minute compact as this video, this video answered every question I had, and have a way better idea on how to make my next build which is my first end game build, thanks for this 3 years later :)
The next question is, does a front mounted AIO work the same if it’s intake or exhaust? I assume intake is best because it makes a negligible difference on the GPU as you tested, but a big difference on CPU.
Something else to consider.
You can have two different kinds of "pull" and "push".
Do you pull/push from inside the case and exhaust through the rad to outside or do you pull/push from outside, through the rad and intake into the case?
I am considering a 240mm AIO GPU, but I only have room for it in the front.. How bad would it be to blow all that heat into the cabinet? 300w from a GPU is usually more heat than a CPU AIO.
I have a PNY fan cooled 4090 with a 13600K with a Kraken Z63 AIO top mounted 2 fans intake. I have three front mounted 140mm intake fans and one 140mm outlet fan. I have been thinking logically it would make more sense to from mount the AIO as in take possibly adding additional 140mm intake fan (if it fits) and setting the three 140mm as outtake on the top. CPU temps have been 50s gaming which Im fine with the GPU however is 70s which concerns me for longevity. I have a mid tower case I have considered upgrading to a full and possible adding more fans...thoughts?
By push and pull do you mean exhaust and intake or just the placement order of the fans and the radiator? Specifically, when you say front push and front pull, is it exhaust and intake or they're both intake but push means the fans placed before the radiator blowing onto it and pull means the fans are after the radiator sucking air from it?
will there be any improvement for temps if I'm able to do push+pull on the front-mounted radiator?
In theory yes. I have only used push/pull on a 120mm and that made a big difference. You'd need to weigh up the extra cost of fans and if your case can take it. I don't know what AIO you have but it may be better if upgraded rather than slapping extra fans on it. I've had 360mm AIOs that were not as good as 240mm units before.
What is recommended as far as the orientation of the fans? I have the radiator front mounted in my case and the fans are on the inside of the case, pushing the air towards the radiator.
What about the msi 240r. The pump in the rad type. My mobo case set up doesnt allow top mount due to ram in the way. Does it matter with pump and cold plate level when front mounting? Thanx
It's a good and interesting question for which I don't have a firm answer. Front mounting isn't a problem with the MSI or any other AIO as long as your case isn't one of the old style where there is a DVD (5.5") drive at the top and the AIO below. I think the pulp and cold plate being level is fine.
Want to place my aio at the front with tubes low for best temps but what he says at 7:00 is steering me away. Is it that big of a problem ?
Tubes low is good so long as you have the clearance. The main issue is if the highest point of the AIO radiator is lower than the pump.
i have a top mount 240 aio intaking thru the dust filter for a more positive airflow setup, should i reverse them? since heat rises i figured i should but id also like less dust maintenance and dust free compenents and cpu cooling priority since im running an i7-12700k and there is a dust filter on top aswell for a intake config and i do clean it weekly
I have a 360 for my CPU mounted in the front and a 240 for my GPU in the top. I wonder if they should both be intake to pull cool air to the radiators with a single exhaust in the rear?
I normally put the front fans on intake and the top/rear as exhaust
So would mounting a 360 AIO (EKWB) on the side with tubes on top in push be consider the same as mounted in the front? My Phanteks 719 has the back side panel where I can install a 360 AIO hence the question 🙏😁
Yes it would work, just make sure that the AIO is utilising the top section of the case.
since my case does does not have enought clearance on top (48cm) for 240 AIO. i have two choices buy 120mm AIO and mount it TOP or buy 240m AIO and mount it FRONT . any suggestion to help me make a dicision ?
Definitely 240mm front dude :)
@@WayneWebbFilms do i have to replace the front fans of my case with the AIO"s ones or just leave them ?
Depends on the fans you already have and what AIO you have/get. Use the best fans on the AIO. Arctic P12 PWM fans are a good option if you need an idea.
Are there inly 3 fans in this build?
(1 in the back, 2 on the AIO)
No, there are two other fans acting as intake or exhaust depending on placement
got a new sub keep it up
Hello,
How to place an aio like the MSI MAG CORELIQUID C280, the pump is located in the radiator, I will soon have to mount one for my configuration and I was wondering how to do it best to not damage the pump?
Thanks for this very interesting video :)
I have just had a look at the AIO on the MSI website and the pump is located a couple of inches away from the tubes on the radiator. From my logic and based on no hands-on experience, I think that the same rules apply with a standard AIO...more or less. If you placed the whole radiator below the CPU then air will still have the potential to be trapped in the block because of warm/hot air rising, but it would manifest itself in warmer temps and not necessarily louder noise.
My best try was 3700 x with H150i corsair : top mounted with pull air, 3 fans 120 on push air ,one 140 behind the case on push also,2 140 bottom on pull … temps are 39 on idle and on r20 72C , ambient 25 C … case Fractal Define R6 , keeping in mind on game with a 70C game card mounted perpendicular my temps are on CPU 55-60 C … I dunno 🤷♂️ if is ok , but this is my best temperature…
I have a p360a case with an ROG VIII hero by ASUS and the heatsink is so big I don't think the H100I CPU cooler will fit up top. should I just use the radiator (240 mm) as intake on the front and put the original two front fans up top to blow out of the case? GPU and CPU are 3070 TI and I9-11900k. (no over clocking)
Yes that is what I'd do
@@WayneWebbFilms Thanks for the help and the videos. :)
i think the case can matter in top mounting as well, especially with how airflow can work
agreed 100% you can have the exact set up and its about a 50-50 chance its gonna work the exact same way in both those cases/
Do you have a table or overview including your findings?
Great video. By comparison to others this is simple and easy to understand. Also subbed
I have a question though about number 3 mounting not in the sense of where air will go to since the pump is lower but in terms of years of usage. With the tubes up, if liquid over time goes and air has now access to the tubes, technically the air should be sucked in the pump causing some troubles right ? But how much time would that need to happen ?
Thanks for the sub. Liquid permeation is dependent on a lot of factors so it wouldn't be X amount of time. Some AIOs have more liquid to begin with and the tubes have a big part to play in keeping liquid in the unit. I think that when the liquid gets to a level where it gurgles, then you need to change the position of it (position 1 or 2). I don't think there is a chance of air going into the pump all that much but the efficiency of your unit will be severely impacted.
DUAL AIO SETUP (GPU + CPU) Do you want the both Top and fronts as exhaust with only the rear case 120mm as intake, or do you want front as intake, but that would blow in the front radiator hot air into the case right? help!
When I have done this in the past with a 120mm GPU AIO, I would put that on the rear and the CPU on the top, both as exhaust. The front would be for intake fans. Hope this helps
@@WayneWebbFilms specifically I have a 240 (dual 120) radiator for CPU and for hybrid GPU so that's not an option for me. Now that i think of it it would be cool if they made a PC case that you could angle mount a 240 for rear AND top exhasut (think roof on a house) but that's not the point. these are the constraints of my sitution, should i just run both the front and top as exhaust and the rear single as intake?
i've got a case with a bottom fan that's angled towards the gpu. if front mount isn't much different from top in terms of gpu temps that just makes front mount a no-lose for me.
Like and subscribed great job mate !
Thank you :)
I switched the top mounted AIO(360mm) from push-exhaust to pull-intake(just flipped the fans).
That dropped about 10℃(75⇨65℃ 10900K) ｗhile playing Cyberpunk and the GPU(RTX3090 82℃) didn't seem to be affected.
My chassis has a dust filter on the top, and since both front and top are intakes, the heat comes out from the back even without rear fans.
It's not something I have tried, but I have seen is being done quite a few times. It doesn't look right but intellectually makes sense that it works. I'm going to give it a try in my next build where I top mount :)
@@WayneWebbFilms I tried Cinebench on both configurations.
CPU temp went up to 85℃ with "top push exhaust", but it stayed under 80 with "top pull intake" with the same OC settings(1.35V, 5.1GHz all core).
The scores were about the same, but this means there is still some OC margin with my new configuration.
The only problem I'm worried about is, if this will heat up the VRM, so I might install an active fan for it.
The VRM temps are certainly a consideration, but I doubt it would make a huge difference. Maybe something I will cover when I take another look.
Hey, wanting to build i7 13700 in an H5 elite. It can only take 240mm aio on the front. Will it be enough?
It's a 65w cpu so I think it'll do well with a 240mm
Thankyou so much @@WayneWebbFilms
for side mount aio cases like the 5000d, is it possible to use the fans as intake instead of exhaust by simply flipping them around?
so basically: suck outside air through the radiator
Yeah that works well, but when I have used the 5000D I preferred the front as intake fans and then the AIO side mounted as exhaust. This way, or to my mind, you're getting fresh air in through the front which services the AIO and GPU. Granted, CPU temps should be slightly cooler in your configuration but not totally sure what would be best for your GPU. I'm more sensitive to having lower GPU temps tbh.
@@WayneWebbFilms Thank you for the response! I’m glad to hear that I can use the side mount aio as intake. The reason i’m going to test this is because i found out that you can fit 3 x lian li sl140’s on the top (exhaust) and front (intake), so i wanted to use the front and side as intake, top and rear as exhaust.
(MSI Meg Unify z690, 12900k, ddr5 6000 c36, 2080 ti ftw3.. because “sold out” everything else)
how did you move the pumps the prebuilt compZany i git my pc from has the pumps going in a loop and its not even cooling my pc it gas air bubbles in it but i don’t know what to do.
Hi, if you have an AIO that you want to move, there will usually be between 8-12 screws that mount it to the case. Undo these, remove any fans you have in the way and then install in place of the fans. Before that, you may need to rotate the fans depending on whether you want/need intake or exhaust. Sometimes the tubing don't want to play nicely, but you can usually twist/rotate these (carefully) where the tube meets the radiator. Hope this helps
@@WayneWebbFilms yeah thanks i tried that not to long ago I’m pretty new to pc’s i don’t know why i thought nothing would happen to it theres air-bubbles stuck in my pumps so it doesn’t cool my pc but a wire connects my radiator to something so i don’t know if i’m ready to try it yet i just tried but i put it back together since i got nervous (btw i got the kraken m22)
i wonder if theres a pump with a 240mm radiator for the top and 360mm for the front? i have a 240mm top (max size for the cooler master h500) temps get over 60oC cpu VERY easy overlcock to 4.7ghz but supposed to be able to get 5.2ghz but temps go to 100oC instead of expected 70-80 - front mount can do full 360mm size but then i cant find one with long enough tubes (i just wish it had a 360mm fitting at top as the case has a good 20cm clearance to the front.. it can fit a Eatx board so theres plenty of space but they put a carry handle in the way)
Hi, your H500 has always intrigued me but I've never owned one. I'm not sure of the value of the top front I/O section but it kills your AIO selection when it looks like it could support a 360 easily. Personally I don't think you need to have tubes down if front mounting a 360 in the front and if you did I suppose it would depend on your GPU, aesthetics and tube length. I had a quick look and the 360mm H150i Capellix I am currently using has a 40cm tube length but Arctic 360 (link below) has 45cm. Would either work? I don't know. www.overclockers.co.uk/arctic-liquid-freezer-ii-high-performance-cpu-water-cooler-360mm-hs-07d-ar.html
I also came across this Reddit that may be one some interest www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/coolermaster/comments/d1qw1c/h500m_build_experiences_with_a_masterliquid_360r/
@@WayneWebbFilms yeh its a shame as the h500 one has a handle at the top front which they could have used to put extra screw holes/support as its definitely long enough for top mounted - I got it as it was "the best for airflow" and it IS! (without overclocking internal temps NEVER got over room temperature with default fan curves - but the cooler i got doesnt seem powerful enough to cope fully with the i9-10900k (so it runs hot as its powerful) ive got when on auto overclock or manual overclock. it works, but i cant reach its "potential"
- the reddit post is interesting, seems to be a slight new model upgrade from the one i have as mine doesnt have that part on the top - and that DOES in fact say it supports 360mm for the h500m one (mine is original h500) so i wonder if i can "convert" it as only difference is the top part..
but then again, im toying if i should save up for full on water cool instead (i need to research as i never water-cooled before) as my motherboard even has water-cooling section for the VRM'S and ek waterblock has a specific part to "connect" them without extra pipes etc and has native support on the asus board (I mean the 240mm aio does work at full overclock keeping below 60oC if i put speed to full but then it sounds louder then a helicopter so i run it slower then it can so i dont deafen myself)
Just got a 360 radiator which only fits top for Lian Li mini but now I’m thinking I need 240 for side ... can’t decide cuz idk if the trade off of 1 more fan for 360 exhaust would be better than the temp advantage of aio intake from the side... what do you think?
Seeing as you already have the 360 I would have the back as intake or exhaust if you like. Remember that you can only use a 360 if you have a matx or mitx motherboard
@@WayneWebbFilms wait... you’re telling me I can’t use an ATX AND a 360mm AIO?/!/?/?
@@WayneWebbFilms thanks for ur quick response I completely missed that info when buying my parts.
Yeah its a bummer tbh, but you should be fine with a 240/280 in the back. There is of course the O11 Dynamic (normal size) which accommodates 360 in back and top with an atx motherboard
@@WayneWebbFilms already got the case and AIO looks like I’m sending the AIO back! Thanks!
Hi, great video. About front mount: front fans intake, top fans exhaust...OK clear, but radiator should be put inside (fans out) or outside (fans in) ?
Tbh there is very little in it. But I would have the on the inside if RGB
@@WayneWebbFilms ok so you're saying it does make no difference, it's just an aesthetic preference. Thanks
I can't put it at top-mounted because I got bigger Rams so I place it at front tubes high
Did you try testing exhaust vs intake? You didn't specify if you were using the top (and front) mount as an exhaust or intake. This will change the effectiveness of the rad at that placement as it will either be using warmer air from inside the case or the cooler outside air.
As a result we still don't know what orientation the rad performs better in
Why would anyone top mount as intake or front mount as exhaust?
We have same system, only GPU is different and case color, I have RTX 3070 and white version. Which version of mounting you are using? Thanks for info!
Yeah I love the case. Normally I go top mounted and push but now going for front pull...just putting together a video for the Z63 which has forced me to front mount, but going by my testing it should have better results than too mounting.
@@WayneWebbFilms i have h100i PRO XT AIO, so the best is on top if I don’t care about 1 or 2 degrees. Thanks.
Yes, that's correct. The slightly higher temps will depend on your GPU. If your GPU produces a lot of heat then I would front mount the AIO but other than that the top is the best for the AIO.
@@WayneWebbFilms When I play BF1 my CPU temp is around 55 degrees (with custom curve, quiet fan mode) and GPU is around 69 degrees. It's OK for now.
Everyone goes top-mounted exhaust, but that just tells me that a whole lot of people have extremely cramped PCs. I have the Corsair 680x Crystal case, the ATX one with the extra chamber for cable management. I just bought a Corsair H100i Elite LCD Display AIO, 240mm, as an upgrade to my air cooler and my first ever liquid cooling hardware for a PC. My plan is to use it as an intake using push/pull config. I have 8 Case fans, three of which blow cool air directly on my GPU (3080Ti). Temps are never an issue, even in some of the most graphically intense environments. Only my CPU (Ryzen 9 5900x) suffers from uncomfortably hot temps under stress. I figure that, using push/pull with 2 of the 3 front case fans, I'll get a negligible (if any) increase in temps to my GPU while getting a much cooler CPU. I have 3 exhaust fans, two on top and one in the back. Doing it this way should create a nice positive airflow, and the warm air from the radiator shouldn't even touch my GPU. It's going to take a lot of work to get the thing on this way, but It'll be worth it, I'm sure.
What needing up working for you I have the same hardware but really hot cpu and tryna get temps down asap
What about when the pump is in the rad ? Coreliquid 360R
You're the 2nd person to ask in as many days and it's a good question. The bottom line is that you're fine when front and top mounting. If you were to put the radiator at the bottom only your case ie below the cold plate, then air will get trapped and things won't work as well. It would be something interesting to try and something I may look at when/if get around to one of these coolers.
Which option would be better; 1. Having AIO at the top as exhaust, the rear fan as intake and front 2 fans as exhaust. 2. Aio exhaust, rear fan as exhaust and front 2 as intake.
Thank you.
Option 2 for me
THANKS FOR THE VIDEO ♥️♥️♥️
SUBBED
My pleasure, thanks for the sub :)
when i did this testing it also completely threw me off. i really thought top mounted would decrease my gpu temps.............how wrong was i, barely moved and my cpu temps shot up. i front mount my rad with a push/pull config.
I’m building in the o11 mini I want to do intake on a front or for this case side mount 280 rad with intake should I push pull or just pull that way I can still see the fans for aesthetics cause if I only push I would only see the rad? Thank you!
Personally I would side mount the radiator on PUSH so you see the fans. The front would be PULL
@@WayneWebbFilms on this case there isn’t a front there is only a side which is like a front are you saying to exhaust hot air by pushing air out I was thinking it would be better to intake like in your video. I would still like to see the fan tho. What configuration would u recommend for that.
I am running a 5900x with a z63 kraken Aio
Ahh I was thinking about the Air version of the case I have now. PUSH is when air pushes through the radiator and if you look at the video I did for the O11 Mini then that is how I'd do it. I'd also add fans on the bottom (in take) and top (exhaust)
@@WayneWebbFilms thank you. Subbed, great videos aswell super easy to understand and
Informative always.
if my gpu already runs a little warm( 50-55c when idle 6700xt) shouldi still be ok with a 280 or 360 aio in the front? my old cooler broke so im currently using a stock intel cooler for my cpu and the noise and temps are shite lol..i have been tryin to decide for days, whether to do a 240mm in the top or a 280/360 in the front. any advice would be really appreciated :)
Hi dude, I have an rx6800 and that is warm in my corsair 4000d (not in itx cases though which is a bit strange) with a front mounted 360mm aio, but that is AMD for you. Personally I would set a static fan 'curve' about 60-70% and that should help with your gpu temps. As for AIO, the bigger the better really. If you put the fans on pull and again on a static curve you will have a constant flow instead of letting it do what it likes.
Otherwise 240mm with some good airflow fans on your case and you should be fine.
What case and cpu do you have?
@@WayneWebbFilms thanks so much for the reply man! :) i also have a 4000d case, and an i7 10700. im relatively new to AIO's( have been using an x62 for a while but i broke it lol) so things like 'setting a fan curve' im not quite following :D sorry for being such a noob. but i am going NUTS watching video after video on whats best lol :)
with regards to setting a fan curve you where referring to the gpu lol..i now realise that lol. mb
Both really. In the AMD software there is an option where you can set a custom curve. Otherwise you can use MSI Afterburner. You can set the AIO in NZXT CAM or Corsair Link etc
@@WayneWebbFilms AHH ok cool. So basically either one (top or front) wud do fine ya? Just down to personal preference? Thank you so much for the advice mate,I really appreciate it,I have been losing my mind watching video after video lol. :) Have an awesome day buddy :)
My GPU temps idle at 92C!!! I am considering moving my front mounted AIO to the top as I have a feeling that it is reducing overall air intake to my case and causing high GPU temps. My CPU temps are fine at the moment so my hope is to balance temps out a bit. Thoughts?
It won't be your font mounting, there is an issue with the GPU. Have you adjusted the fan curve? Are you OCing it? If so, turn that off. Have you had the card apart? Maybe think about a repaste of the die. What is the GPU btw?
@@WayneWebbFilms ive adjusted my case fan curve in my BIOS and have done a bit of tweaking in MSI. I typically just run my GPU at 80% fan speed to avoid thermal throttling. No overclocking. Ive tried two different RTX 3070s (Aorus Master and a Gigabyte one) both of which experience the same temps. If its not the AIO then im out of ideas!!!
You have nothing to lose by putting the AIO up top. In my experience it doesn't alter things very much but you seem to have an issue with airflow in your case. What case and do you have exhaust fans?
it also depends on what your gpu cooler fans do. if they are like the 6900xt 6800xt (i have an xfx merc) and it pushes it out the back of the pc case. I think thats how yours does as well. as long as the fins are clean they are actually very efficient. in pumping out hot air from the pc case. A top mount will always cause extra temps because of something a lot of people dont always take into effect. when you put a restriction (theoretically) on the top, and because hot air rises. the hot air from the back of the mobo. or the back panel actually becomes a space for really dead air. there is no movement and it stay generally toasty back there. (the pandemic quarantines are to blame as to why i know this lol. i ordered a FLIR for a non pc related project. and well it becomes a literal hot plate in the back. especially if you have a lot of ssd 2.5 or just a lot of wires. the residuals make that back area hot. so thats actually a big reason for it. awesome video tho. not one i usually see so thats the reason i checked it out =)
It's rather contradicting when you start with showing front mount with very obvious advantage over top mount, but end the video with top mount being the best position. I don't know if you tested front mount tube up and tube down, but shouldn't front mount tube down be the best position?
Top rad has to move the hot air from the gpu out, so you're basically cooling your CPU with warmer air. At least that's how I see it. Front mounted CPU aio cools cpu better while allowing faster exit of hot air via unrestricted case fans, win win for CPU and GPU. Coolling is about extracting hot air, so you're better off increasing case airflow out of the case than intake.
Why assume that the top is exhaust? It could be intake using only rear for exhaust
Nobody says the top fans need to be exhausts. There's usually a lot of openings along the case back for hot air to leave.
No you are pretty wrong, front mounted aio not only limit the intake air to the gpu, it also limit vrm and other components. As someone who have tried both, front mounted although does make the cpu cooler, it will choke your gpu and other components of air intakes. I saw up to 6 degree drop of the gpu from moving the front mounted aio to the top. Cpu doesn’t throttle until 90c° but gpu will throttle the hotter it gets so having a little bit of a hotter cpu doesn’t matter if you are gaming
@@sneakybeaky2112 I've just bought a Corsair iCUE H150i. I currently have three Noctua intake fans at the front of my case, and one exhaust at the rear, and plan to top mount my radiator. Do you think it's OK to have three intake fans at the top aswell, and only one exhaust overall?
@@sneakybeaky2112 did u watch the video? how is he wrong? you're right in theory but people find that to not be the case lol
What about AIO's with pump in the radiator?
Very good question. I used to have the EK Phoenix which was exactly that. That said, I put them in the top and front with the tubes down due to the tube length being sufficient. I would say trial it in the bottom of the case if that's your intention. Otherwise top or front is fine and dandy.
@@WayneWebbFilms I have fractal design define r5, which has its own limitations. My options are top or front, but I would like to have it in front (I ordered msi core liquid 240r). So guess I'll have it in front with lubes up (because 400mm tubes aren't long enough if the radiator is upside down...). The pump will obviously be below the highest point, but I am afraid there will be some air noise in couple years.
Best informations after 24 hours of reading and watching. For me was the Point, if u install the Aio Top, und cant do anything for your cpu. But if u install in front, u can manage that the airflow of the Aios intake can direkty go outside (it dont even touch MB/GBU and if u have more space, like a fan extra front down + bottom, then would be teven better. The best is naturally not in the Case, for me is nosense installing it in the case... I will try install the radiator outside the case. Dumber as dumb for me inside. Thx for the video ;)
im confused, one minute you said make sure the tubes aka front mount is higher than the pump, then #2 you said tubes down is good because air will be trapped in radiator. Isn't that a contradiction? I was following fine until you said that, now I'm confused :(.
It's in only a problem if the pump is higher than the top of the radiator
What i learned was if i want to show off my rgb aio rad fans i need to top rad it and sacrifice temps for asthetics due to front fans needing to push air in, would of been nice to see how much difference a pull configuration on front made to temps for rgb users
Tbh when front mounting and using fans on pull vs push, the temp difference is negligible ie it doesn't matter. I normally have them on pull and you still get most of that RGB goodness.
Is it best to have the fans exhaust into the case or out of the case?
Both, airflow is key. The conventional thinking is intake cool air from the front and exhaust warm air through the top and rear.
@@WayneWebbFilms - I'm gearing up to do a new PC Build. I'm considering the Corsair 5000D AIRFLOW case and the ASUS ROG Strix X570-E Gaming with a CORSAIR HYDRO SERIES H150i PRO RGB AIO Liquid CPU Cooler. If I can ever find one, I want the ASUS ROG Strix LC GeForce RTX™ 3080 Ti OC Edition 12GB GDDR6X GPU.
One issue I have now is my PC heating up my room too much so for the new build I don't want to exhaust any heat into the room. On my current PC, I geared up a through wall exhaust tube with a powerful fan in it to suck the heat out of the case and out of the room. For the new build I'm considering having the CPU cooler front mounted with fans blowing into the case. Then I'd have the GPU cooler exhausting out the back into my current through-wall exhaust. I'd also have 3 top fans blowing in and 3 side fans blowing in. Do you think this would work well?
I don't see why this wouldn't work, you may need to play with the exhaust fan speed to see what is optimum between heat extraction and noise. What is your current system that creates so much heat?
@@WayneWebbFilms - I'm blaming the smallness of the room more than the PC. When I had it in a more open area it wasn't a problem. But I am taxing the system with rendering now. This is my current build:
CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K
CPU COOLER: ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO
MOTHERBOARD: MSI MPG Z390 Gaming Plus
GPU: MSI Gaming GeForce RTX 2070 256-bit HDMI/DP/USB Ray Tracing Turing Architecture Graphics Card (RTX 2070 Duke 8G OC)
RAM: 2 - Corsair LPX 32GB DRAM 3000MHz C15 Memory Kit for DDR4 Systems - 64GB RAM
CASE: Thermaltake V200 Tempered Glass RGB
POWER SUPPLY: Seasonic Focus FM Series 650w (SSR-650FM) 80 Plus Gold Power Supply
Adding the exhaust setup did help quite a bit but not as much as I had hoped. It could use some more intake fans I suspect but since I'm building a new one anyway I won't bother now.
even without gpu pompoing heat into the system, temp are still higher with top mount, THIS what what shocked me. Was the AIO only exaust, or do you had fan on the back as well?
Exhaust fan at rear for all tests. Really is best to front mount the AIO for overall lower system temps
@@WayneWebbFilms when I install new 4080 it won't fit with tubes at the bottom, everyone say it'll be fine with tubes at top... I'm not sure, it wasn't the most expensive Cooler Master aio, I can hear some water slashing inside when I shake the rad.
@@MegaLol2xd a lot of AIOs have issues with GPU clearance. Having the tubes at the top is absolutely fine so long as they are higher than the pump. The sloshing could be that there is some air trapped, I'd be inclined to tip the case counter clockwise to encourage it to come out of the pump. Also, there is usually approx a 3-10% tolerance with AIOs meaning they have that much air in them by design
@@WayneWebbFilms Thank you for the tips. 👍 I think you convinced me.
You can always run a top radiator as intake for better temperatures. A lot of cases even come with a top fan filter now. Heat rises, but it's totally insignificant when you have fans.
Open air gpus just dump all their heat into the case, they even recirculate some of their exhaust. You're putting like ~300w worth of heat into the case some of which is going through your cpu aio.
Pulling air through a radiator is usually best when you have fans with large hubs. The slight gap between the fan blades and the radiator fins gives it a little space for the airflow to even out. With push you end up having the frame and stator directly blocking airflow.
Going with pull as intake also keeps the fan further from filters and solid front panels that can be quite restrictive. I removed an ultrafine mesh filter from a bottom intake radiator in push and dropped my custom loop's temps by 10C. The fans being sandwiched between a restrictive radiator and filter meant they basically weren't doing anything except stirring the air around in a circle.
Could you explain the rest of the fans in your case and if there push or pull? Great vid btw
Hi, the rear fan is exhaust. If the radiator is on the front, then the top fans are exhaust. If the radiator is on the top, the front fans are intake. Hope this helps
@@WayneWebbFilms ok that help out a lot thank you
Lucky, same case i was wondering about.
It's a great little case tbf.
Coolers work by temperature gradient across the heat transfer surface. When you top mount, your "ambient" temperature is your case temperature. I ran a thermal probe inside the middle of my case and found that the interior temps under load were about 10C above ambient. This explains higher CPU temp with a top mount, but I have no idea why it doesn't result in higher GPU temps with front mounting. That said, the first and only AIO I ever bought, an EK AIO 360 Elite, had a gradual pump failure within 2 months of buying it (top mount for most of that time), and I don't know if I'll ever trust one again.
10c Delta for the interior of the case vs exterior is awful. You don't have enough intake flow. A good delta is about 3~5c degrees at most for a high ende system.
But that is not the main reason. The main reason is that the fron of the case does not usually have a thick structural grill blocking air flow, opposed to the top of the case that almost always does.
The one thing that still confuses me about AIO front-mount is the configuration of the other fans: assuming the back fan is still exhaust, then won't they "suck away" all the cool air being pulled in by top-mounted fans?
With front mounting you have the top and rear fans set to exhaust. So, front two fans are intake and the other 3 are exhaust. It rarely makes sense to have intake at the top.
@@WayneWebbFilms Ah! Makes sense. So, despite the intake having to work through higher resistance through the radiator, there's still enough cool air entering the case? Keeping mind that, in addition, said intake air will have been somewhat "pre-heated" by the radiator exhaust due to cooling the CPU.
That's correct. Bear in mind that I had a constant 60% "fan curve" so your results will vary if actually using a curve. In my opinion, the GPU is the one that gets the benefit of the constant 60% because it's cooler before it actually does any work so it has less heat to dissipate when the action starts. I think it would suffer more if the fans didn't ramp up until say 55°c because it's then fighting a losing battle
@@WayneWebbFilms Hmm, this will be interesting to play with. If I ever have a pile of boxes that contain a full system. Right now, of course, it's all showing up piecemeal. Or rather, the core components are. Even the cooler fans (Cryorigs) are on back-order down under!
Nothing worse than a backordered component :( I normally choose something else unless I'm desperate for it. I do love build day though, when everything is in place, and you can finally put it all together. Good luck with yours. Happy to offer any advice if you get stuck.
When your aio is top mounted, the heat from your system rises into the radiator (Thermal convention). A top mounted aio intakes hot air from the system regardless of if you have it set to push or pull due to the natural rise in heat as a single exhaust fan will not be enough to remove all the heat from every component. However, a front mounted aio intakes cool air from outside the front of the case. Remember that the cpu is cooled by the radiator as coolant is moved through the aio. This is what causes the dramatic increase in cpu temperature as the radiator changes between cool air and hot air intakes when mounted on the front or top of the case respectively.
Only with top exhaust. There's nothing keeping you from doing top intake. Any fan is enough to override hot air's tendency to rise.
@@Lead_Foot Yes of course, but if the goal is optimal airflow then it is obvious to follow air’s tendency to rise and compliment it with top exhaust, thereby increasing airflow if even by a little. This is one of the main reasons top exhaust is used in majority of builds especially airflow focused ones. While there may be only a small performance increase in temperature efficiency. Over time that small margin aids in the maintenance and stability of ur system. It doesnt seem like much but there isnt a justification for mounting top intake unless u are working with highly specific circumstances which honestly I cannot think of any off the top of my head.
@@Lead_Foot Custom loops thats what its applicable for now i remember. Havent done one of those in a while.
So i here read nothin just wanted to ask where should it be placed for better temps top or front
The front with fans on "pull" will give the best temps from my testing but best place for the aio health is the top.
Mine front pull + push very fine temp
Hey, I have a question what if you put the radiator on the floor of your case would it still work correctly
Hi dude, this was covered in the video, but no it wouldn't work correctly. You may get away with it at first, but air will sit in the pump and stop liquid flowing properly which will result in excess noise, wear on the pump and you won't have as effective cooling. If you have a custom loop then this isn't an issue because the air would sit in the reservoir.
@@WayneWebbFilms should I overlap the radiator fans over my front intake fans?
@@WayneWebbFilms it is the only way since my ram is too big
Hi, not totally sure what you mean, probably lost in translation. Do you mean have the fans in a push/pull configuration or something else?
@@WayneWebbFilms let me explain more clearly, i have 3 fans that are intake fans in the front and I have pretty big Corsair ram so I can’t fit my aio on the ceiling of my case and the back can only hold one fan so I’m not sure what I can do and I’m pretty stressed about it. Also I have the IBUYPOWER case that I showed you before
I have a front pull setup due to my case being too small, thanks for proving it that it ain't as bad I was quite pessimistic and paranoid when I have to compromise the position, hearing Jay station or Steve whoever guy exaggerations is very useless and absurd to beginner PC geek like
I've seen no reasoning to convince me that a top mounted radiator is better than top mounted fans (assuming exhaust mode). The fans expel warm air. What is the radiator doing, besides cooling the air that it's fans are expelling? - and how does that reduce the temp of the air in the case. Seems I need to go back to school and get an update on the laws of physics :)
You might have missed the point because the fans were shifted in conjunction with the AIO ie AIO at the front exhaust fans at the top and rear. Good luck with school.
Bottom mounting can only work great with the
Be quiet pure loop. Since it can be refilled under warranty and has the pump in the tubing
Cool, good to know :)
I think you have insufficient intake airflow. That's the only way your graphics card sees zero variance when case ambient temp increases significantly due to all intake coming through the CPU radiator. It makes perfect sense that CPU temps would increase with top mount exhaust configuration since the radiator is being cooled with warmer case air rather than fresh cool air from the room. The important thing to remember is that any medium/high end gaming system today will see much larger improvement by cooling their graphics card and GPU/CPU VRM and VRAM than just the CPU die, assuming your CPU is nowhere near thermal throttle (which is should definitely not be with an AIO). That's why top-mount is better overall for a modern med/high/very high end gaming system. I'm much more concerned about doing everything in my power to curb my 3090 FE's 90+ C VRAM temps (after re-padding the back of the PCB, used to be 100+ C during gaming) than my making my 5950x run at 71C instead of 77C under full load.
That 5950x is warm! My 5900x averages around 40-45c in demanding games. Spikes might hit 70c but averages around 65c on cinebench r20. Idles in the mid to upper 20s.
@@shawnolson4133 what is your fan and radiator orientation looking to build soon and my last temps for the 5900x were horrible yours sound amazing
El problema es el abanico de atrás únicamente. Los AIO en el frente no muestran diferencia en los benchmarks sacando o entrando aire. Tengo un LianLi tomando aire y una RTX 3080. La CPU en 33c y la GPU en 42c y en el trópico, en AC bajan a 28/33. En VR durante horas o jugando Cyberpunk en max no pasa de 65. Por otro lado, hay cases que tienen aperturas laterales y por abajo que ayudan a la GPU también. Ese fan de atrás jodió todo 🤣
you have coolers and radiator set wrong! coolers must be on exhaust (and you case is not for that scenario)
A little less face time and more on equipment mounting time and installation I don't need spec. and mounting best worst etc
Someone needs a hug
I get plenty of hugs &, kisses I just think when I ask a question about the best way to do something I don't want to hear some hardball explain it to me even though you made your point so eloquently but as I recall a picture is worth a thousand words professor because that's what it seemed like where I just wanted to see some options I haven't thought of. Thanks for your video, Maxwell
Yo be gonest
Top mount is always the second best position. Because the top of the radiator will have a slowly growing bubble over time. And as we know air does not transmit heat well. The best position if possible will always be the front with the tube at the bottom since the bubble will be growing in a tank and not in a radiator. This way you get max cooling for the longest time.
if the tubes at the bottom
wont some air be stuck in the pump?
No, so long at the pump isn't the highest point in the loop
Raditor on top is best temperature for both CPU and GPU but reduce the lifespan of AIO cooler
Claiming that air flow changes FPS that much is nonsense.
Not sure I have claimed anything about FPS, the video is about system temps
just tip it a bit users with 7000d yea mate no problem nice joke :D
Ehm, is there any logic behind the conclusion or is it simply to avoid a shitstorm (of non-informed users?)... Multiple times mentioning (3:32, 4:12, 4:18) that front mounted is the way to go - finally saying #1 Top mounted.🤣
I get where you're coming from and without me going through the video I will summarise my thoughts. Best for CPU temps - front mounted, best for GPU temps - top mounted. Best for overall temps - front mounted. Best orientation for AIO in terms of longevity - top mounted.
Hope this makes sense. For the record, I do front mounting now unless I have a side/back panel I can install my AIO to
I'm struggling to understand what ur saying. Ur english pronunciation is little hard for me to understand 😅
It's a long video. What do you need to know?
@@WayneWebbFilms nah I'm ok .I turned on the subtitles ✌
I could understand him perfectly fine
3:10 "GPU temperatures are basically the same." HUH? Since when is 34.7 even close to 53.5???? Look, I understand that neither temp is going to affect the GPU much, but that is not the same thing as "basically the same," so can you please be more precise with your wording? I'm not feeling well right now; your displayed temps from the push and pull screens do not match the matrix of push and pull at all, and I can't figure it out. Why are you saying that top-mounting is better? The air is getting heated by the CPU AND by the air in the case so, if ambient temp gets higher, the temps are going to be worse - millions of people will have this problem since they can't afford A/C!
Been looking around videos trying to find a fix, i have 2 identical systems running z690-a, 12900k, 128gb of ddr4-3600 trident z neo gskill (i believe what you have in the video), as well as a 24gb 4090, both systems ran perfect for almost a year until recently. One system started having fps drops and stuttering, surprise surprise its the cpu temp, so i swapped my lian li gallahad aio with a new identical one which changed nothing. The cpu started thermally throttling due to threshold max so i gave up and set that pc in the closet and took apart the 4090 down to the chip to watercool for my current build. Soon after, my second identical system started doing the same thing, i can use the pc as far as browsing and youtube and the such, but the second i get under load i.e run a game, my temps in hwinfo all turn red and im forced to shut down after thermal throttling begins. Swapped the aio and reseated and re pasted to be sure with no fix. Im very stumped at this point as ive tried everything. I am not overclocking nor using xmp to get the most out of my ram as i believe the 128gb of trident z neo would be too much for the 12900k at 3600MHz. Any thoughts? Im asking anywhere before i try to RMA these cpus as a last ditch effort. As both are identical builds down to the case and lasted for awhile with no problems and under no real load since theyre both beasts i have no idea where to go. Any input at all would be awesome and appreciated.
Is your AIO at the front or on top? If on top, put on the front. Are all your Windows and motherboard/cooler software up-to-date? Have you tried adjusting the AIO fan curve? I used to put things at about 60% constant. How are your case fans set up...intake/exhaust? Another thing, you.say that the PCs were working fine for a year, have you cleaned any dust in the filters/fans etc?
yes ive cleaned both systems, replaced aios a few times. Aio is set to 100% and one system has a top mounted aio radiator as exhaust and the other is front mounted as intake. I can try and update cooler software though ive never had any to begin with that i remember, windows is up to date and i have not updated bios as i didnt want to ruin anything. @@WayneWebbFilms
Edit: Whether you get me anywhere or not i appreciated the incredibly fast reply, youre awesome man definitely gained a sub.
@45inmyhead11 are your other case fans on exhaust? Air flow is very important. What case are you using? What thermal paste have you used? Tbh I don't think this would make a massive difference. Also, just to check the basics, but you haven't left the plastic on the AIO pump have you ;)
No plastic on the copper plate lol, im using 2 thermaltake eATX full tower cases i believe. The fans bring the air flow front to back aside from the front radiator on the one case exhausting into the case and the top mounted one exhausting out the top. Im on the one that doesnt hit as high of temps, right now in my cold ass office on yt its at 26c-32c which would seem right but if i were to launch even a non demanding game or program it would quickly shoot up to threshold max where id shut down. This was never the case before as i could run a demanding game at 4k and have discord on a monitor and yt on another. @@WayneWebbFilms
Edit: sorry for my idiot grammar im trying to type fast and ive been drinking, also i did use to run one as a open build so im 99.9% airflow isnt it. Ive gone through 5 lian li gallahad 360 aios between the two systems with no fix, but maybe these aios are just complete trash?
@45inmyhead11 I've not used those AIOs, so unsure how good they are. I would use HWinfo64 to keep an eye know things to see where the spikes start. Sometimes it isn't what you think. When it comes to monitor, do you have a 60hz 4k or 144hz? If 60hz, are you generating more frames ie gsync isn't enabled. This would certaining help. As part of testing I would try limiting the refresh rate to ascertain where the tipping point is. I'm off to work, but good luck with your testing.