As one of the mugs who bought the CBX550 back in 1982, I can confirm that it had considerably more flaws than the crankshaft and silly disc covers mentioned here. The camchain tensioner would give up at 6000 miles causing the Honda to spit its giblets over the road, long before the bike reached the mileage when the crankshaft would complete the task. It's air forks were utterly useless and leaked oil as soon as their new seals hit the road. No, Hondas are not reliable! I never bought another. Great channel but many unhappy memories.
@@bikerdood1100 Don't forget the "trusty" CX 500, much favoured by despatch riders, that too suffered the Honda "death rattle". It was shortly after that Honda fitted their VFR with bevel gear driven camshafts, only recently reverting back to chain. Fortunately they've now discontinued it. A tedious litany of flops that ought not to be forgotten.
My 550 f2c is on its original crankshaft. Nearly 80k on it now, I need to get it going again, needs exhaust, battery and a full service. I expect it to run.
I bought a second hand VF750F in '88 with about 33k on it. I lusted after it in school in '83 when they came out. When I took it for a test ride the owner warned about it falling into the corners....16" wheel. So adjusted riding style and never had a problem. Engine ran fine too. I'm rebuilding one now, stalled project, but it has always held a piece of my heart.
I had a CBX550F2. I even started my racing career on it. Yes the inboard discs were a stupid idea but it handled great it had a short wheelbase and a beautiful torquey power delivery. The highlight is the headers with the one crossing over the other 3.
@@bikerdood1100 I also had one, and it gave me no problems, except, of course, for the habitual cam chain tensioner. Mine was eventually stolen and destroyed by the damned tealeaves. Mine had an insanely loud Sebring full system on it and I could hear the thing being thrashed around the town. It was eventually dumped near the Police HQ, with the con rods making a break for freedom. I got an XJ650 with the insurance money, now that was a truly great bike. I've not had a Honda since. Tried a few and every time I've though WTF would anybody have one of these? My status as a Honda Fanboy was destroyed by their inability, oner a period of more than 10 years, to design a camchain tensioner that was up to the task. If you want to do another episode on biking disasters, I'd nominate the Honda camchain and tensioner. Truly abysmal.
@@davidcolin6519 The late '60s-on Honda 750 was prone to camchain tensioner failure as well. Not just Honda, though - my Suzuki GS450 had its one fail too.
Hmm. Still got mine in the garage. An '83 on a Y plate, cbx550f2c. Got just under 80k on it. Had Tony Galea do the camchain and tensioner mod at 27k.....no problems after 50k+ miles. Bought it at 24k in 93. I understand they're worth a bit now😁
I bought a interceptor 1000, 85 model. Very nice. I went up a tooth on the front sprocket. The engine made power like an electric motor. Smooth up to 8000 then there was a nice little bump up to 10,000. The suspension was okay but not up to the potential the bike had. I worked at a Honda dealer as parts manager. The bike was sitting on the showroom floor too long. The owner of the dealership sold it to me for $3500 to get it off his books. I loved it. Added clipons. Then I had a baby boy. Sold the bike because every time I rode it I went 100 mph. That baby boy deserved to have a daddy growing up. He's 35 now he owns a thruxton and I modified a moto guzzi California stone 1100 into an old man's cafe racer. Okay, so I was desperate and I couldn't afford gxr or a hayabusa or the Honda rrr It might have been an '84. It was the VF1000F.
I’ve had most of the Honda V4s and currently have an 85 V65 Sabre. If you can find one that isn’t already ruined ,you can install an aftermarket oil line kit that goes from a plate at the oil filter directly to the cylinder heads. So far so good love the bike. The bike is very comfy and pulls like a mule
Interesting collection thanks. The VF750 also suffered more than most from it's 16" front wheel which while ok on a race track did not do well on less than smooth public roads. I watched in amazement and horror as a mate ahead of me went into a terminal tank slapper on his VF750 which spat him off big time at about 120ks right in front of me. I only just missed him and the bike ended it's days in a creek bed off the side of the road!
My 1986 GSX1100EG had a 16” front wheel. Steering damper was a must as the front wheel went light over every crest in the road under power and like to wave at passers by.
@@bikerdood1100 Nope there were sound ideas. They were used in road racing 1982/83-1983/84. Pretty sure Suzuki was first with it. Reason lower rotational momentum for quicker steering mostly. They could fit wider tires (weighing more) to exert more brake force into the ground. The 16" were of course limiting the brake's size. They were still not standard, so for at least every day life, they limitied tire choices. In 1984 at least Yamaha (Eddie Lawson) had 17"/17" wheels in road racing. Guess it stayed that way since ( haven't kept up)
@@impalaSS65 Strangely, I think in racing they use a size they have used since the 90s I believe, but which I don't think we've ever seen on the road: 16.5".
Back around 91 I worked at a Honda dealer. If they had a chance to buy a Magna or Interceptor that had the cam noise but was otherwise in good condition, they’d buy it. There wasn’t any money to be made, but come winter when there were no customer bikes to work on… kept the mechanics from being laid off. Come spring, it’s for sale with brand new cam drive professionally installed. Sales guy who sold one got a small bonus, as there was often zero profit and therefore zero commission. Back then, because of a production war, you could buy a brand new 1988 Shadow off the show room, and we could order a brand new (old stock) 1987 VRF1000F. There was also a big bonus for anyone who could sell a PC800.
PC was a good idea but in truth Americans generally see bikes as a leisure item unlike many other places in the world where a bike is the primary means of transport Not sure if Honda fully understood this when pitched it at the US market Tempting Americans from the cars was a Big ask
Agreed. It was a generally practical motorcycle with its large lockable weather proof storage, simple maintenance, affordable. Back then Oldsmobile had an ad campaign “this is not your father’s Oldsmobile” trying to distance themselves from the wood grain station wagons you’d associate with the sweater vest wearing completely domesticated, practical, family man. I kinda thought the PC800 was the motorcycle equivalent of the wood grain station wagon- which here was largely replaced by (for most people) less practical large 4x4 SUV’s.
A guy in the next flat bought a VF750 as soon as they were released. I never understood how Honda failed to produce a reliable cam chain tensioner, given their extensive knowledge of 4-strokes. He spent more time commuting on the train than his bike.
Funny thing is, back in the day, one of the bike mags ran a story about the tensioner woes and had an engineer give it a thorough once over. The engineer eventually found that one of the cam sprockets, can't remember if it was inlet or exhaust, was about 5 thou or so off centre. This rapidly destroyed the tensioner mechanism. So one possible cause there.
Maico 490 Alpha 1...after producing the best production MX of all time, they brought out a single shock model that used the snap the rear shock, and it all but finished the company, which should have been on it's way to the mainstream after the success of the Mega2
I found the VF400F2 to be pretty good as you said, valve clearances tricky to adjust properly and don’t leave on side stand as fork seals will soon start leaking. VF500F used to overheat as did my VF750FD (used to throw the coolant every so often even with checking everything and new radiator cap etc…). So pleased with my CB650R, no hassle at all.
We ran a vf400 for a couple of years with few problems despite its age. The smaller bikes always had a much better reputation for reliability than is bigger brothers
That was very interesting. Other than the little Indian I am familiar with all these bikes. It was a lottery in the period 75 to 85 whether the manufacturer had conducted sufficient development prior to launching a model onto the market. Even bikes as reliable as the CX500 had some initial teething problems. The VF750 was a disaster and did Honda's reputation no good at all.
Very true it was definitely a time of bold experimentation. Ok not all were completely successful but it was a much more varied period than today where falling profits have resulted in some very unadventurous designs
I had an RE5 for 8 years. When it was running it rode really well as a tourer but too heavy for sporty use. New, they cost more than a Kawasaki Z1 and only appointed Suzuki dealers were authorised to deal with them. The motor ran very HOT and mine cracked its rotor housing across the spark plug hole, twice in my ownership at around 18k. This resulted in two expensive engine rebuilds. MPG average was about 38-40mpg. Despite it's problems I loved it.
I own one but needs restauration. My project after retirement :-) Guess it needs time lol I own a NSU RO 80 too, so wankel engine is not totally secret to me. Still got a lot respect of it lol
I put thousands of miles on my cbx550 and she never missed a beat as did my v4 , after hearing about the camshaft problem on the v4 I just let her warm up for a few minutes before riding off, I really wish I still had them 😮😊
For the CBX I’d say it really depends just how any thousands, ever noticed how short the bikes production run was. But the reputation of the V4s, especially in the larger capacities is very much deserved Their problems cost Honda a fortune. There’s a good reason the only lasted 4 years and then VFR decades
Oh no my VF750 is on the list, no surprise really. Nearly 40 years old now and she starts and runs perfect. 85hp is perfectly adequate for me. Thanks for the video
My VF500F2 had improperly-hardened valve tops. The cam hammered the valve past the collets and it dropped a valve at 7,000 rpm. Carnage! Having stripped it down, I can confirm it was extremely complicated and difficult to work on. We followed the instructions in the genuine workshop manual which actually resulted in both inlet camshafts being installed back to front and running backwards.
Generally the smaller the earlier V4s the better Had an early VF400 which proved solid enough, the problems grew worse capacity Cam chain, adjuster, oil supply and so on People often make comment about chocolate cams but I suspect it’s all about the oil
I had an 1st year US VF750 (1983). The oiling problem had already shown up in Europe the year before, so I immediately did the recommended fix, which I don't remember well but think it involved running a small supplemental oil line to the cylinder heads. Got very OCD about oil changes. Did a precautionary overhaul at 20k miles. It was pristine. 1st perimeter frame, 1st mono-shock rear suspension, 1st production slipper clutch, hydraulic clutch. Fantastic motor and zero frame flex made it a back road monster. It had one flaw. The 16" front wheel made it very flickable but the bike was very sensitive to tire profile. The right front tire made or broke the bike's handling. I forget what tire did what now, but more rounded or triangular made it want to fall into turns. I settled on some R-compound semi-race Dunlops and it was neutral to wanting just a light tug on the inside bar to hold arc. Sweetness. I destroyed about 5 pairs of jeans until I discovered knee cups. OMG, that is true. What an idiot.
It’s a shame I loved the look of the sporty models, but reputations are difficult to shake and this couple with high prices didn’t do the bikes any favours in sales terms. On the bright side the following VFR model is a true classic
@@bikerdood1100 At the time, the VF made HUGE ripples in the industry. It was the first Japanese homogulation bike for Superbike racing. The perimeter frame, single-shock suspension, slipper clutch. The VFR and GSXR refined those things in different ways, but there can only be one first. First time you saw one.... "wow, everything else is now old."
Yep. Well done mate. 5 outstanding lemons. Ive been around long enough to see all of those in the showrooms....haha. The 500 Ducati....you couldnt give them away!
Yeh me too I remember seeing one the the Ducatis on a local dealership about 25 years ago, it looked very pretty but a knew their reputation. It was like so many in really good condition simply because no one rides them too far
@@bikerdood1100 So true. You should do a post on maybe 5 or 10 of the best...the honda 4s...the GS, GSX Suzukis, Yamaha 1100, Yamaha LC, RZ 250 and 350, Yamaha XS650, the Triumph Trident, BSA Rocket3 , all the Guzzis! Haha. We were fortunate to live through a real glory period of bike manufacturing...unlike now. The current bikes are magnificent in a lot of ways, but they hardly stir the soul...
I really loved those VFR's, I am inexplicably drawn to them . I think they sound incredible and look bad ass (especially weird since I have a round headlight fetish and think these are just perfect with their little crt tv set headlights).
Yeah, I remember the issues hitting corners hard with the 16” front wheel. The fixes were well known then, stiffening the front end compression without affecting rebound. I don’t remember the specifics but the shops knew the fixes.
The VFR FD had cam problem on about 14% of the first run. They where soft and decame clattery after only 14,000 miles. Most people had no problem but the bike press blew up the story. Plenty of bikes around with high mileages. Freddie Spencer won the Daytona 200 on the FD 750 with a trick exhaust gearbox duspension etc. It was revolutionary. These days its still a great sport tourer . One of the best all round bikes ever.
There was also the poor oil supply to the top end on bot the 1000 and the 750, smaller bikes were less troublesome. Let’s not forget the cam chain tensioner, a Honda classic 😂 There’s a good Reason the VFR appeared as early as 86 and had gear driven cams. The VFR is one of the best It’s lighter and better built 🤷🏼
The early VF500s had issues with spun main bearings. A friend had a VF750 which he and his brother kept crashing on a regular basis. The front end geometry was to blame, not only did the 16" front wheel not like midcorner bumps, but it also behaved very differently from the 19" wheels which were still common at the time. When he first let me ride his VF it surprised me going into a corner: with a 19" wheel you have to keep constant pressure to keep the bike leaned over, but with the 16" wheel you had to keep constant pressure in the opposite direction to keep it from leaning too far over and sliding out. It required a serious mental adjustment. I clearly remember when the RE5 came out: there was nothing fundamentally wrong with it except for the flaws inherent in the Wankel rotary which are major and fundamental. It's main problem as I remember is that here was a bike that was expensive, complicated (two ignition systems, an oil sump *and* and a separate two-stroke oil injection system), and ugly. I mean it worked well, but It offered no improvement over cheaper inline fours while being heavier and as thirsty as the big two-stroke triples of a generation before. Suzuki made the same mistake with it as they and everyone else would repeat a decade later with the Turbo bikes.
The RE5 also had a dual barrel carburetor. The secondary (this is from memory, so I might be off) was opened mostly by vacuum and partially by cable. It never really worked well. I was a mechanic at a Suzuki/Kawasaki dealership at the time. You had to go to a Suzuki school to be certified to work on the RE5 for warranty work. I had not but liked working on them anyway and if it was out of warranty I sought them out. I noticed that the "certified" guy frequently "cured" problems by disconnecting the secondary. He said this was an "off the record" tip at the school and it wasn't needed. This sounded dubious to me but he was very sound go-to guru kind of mechanic. So I finally gave in and did it, went for a test ride.. and he was dead right. Maybe at redline it would have been different but the neither the motor or the chassis wanted you to run around at redline anyway. Oddly for a rotary maybe, but it was a low-mid to high-mid range motor, the gearbox was slow and not happy at high-rpm shifts. I have wondered over the years how many guys bought an RE5 to restore and" fixed" it by reconnecting the secondary.
One of the big problems with the 16 inch front wheels was most tire profiles that size were triangular in shape. Finding a round profile made a world of difference. I bought a 1984 vf1000 the guy that owned it said it had a bent frame and handled wierd. I put a metzler round profile tire on the front and it handled great
One of my ex-partners, she had a Ducati 500 parallel twin. It certainly vibrated a lot. Maybe that’s why she liked it. I’m sure the points ran at full engine speed - the ignition timing always went out very quickly. I adapted a Piranha electronic ignition kit for a CZ250 Twin - it ran much better after that.
@@bikerdood1100 I had a Vf400. Same problem. Honda sold these little bottles of black stuff at exorbitant prices that you added to the oil. Turned out to be moly. I had a CBX 550 with the half fairing. I thought it was a great bike.
@@peterround4818 I had the vf400 for a couple of years, it was in truth spared the worst of the problems, they got worse as the engine got bigger. Which explains why the little talked about vf1000 is so rare
Re: the Honda VF. The problems with the 750 V4 only really started showing up with the 750F (Interceptor in the US); it had been sold for a year or more in the 750S (Magna?) without too many complaints because it was tuned for a cruiser-type bike whose riders wouldn't chase the redline all day. When the VF750F turned up, it was tuned to make power at higher revs, which stressed the faults that were less obvious in the cruiser. You quite correctly point out oil starvation to the top end, but it wasn't critical: the reason Honda developed a retro-fit kit with two additional oil feeds (one to each head) was to try to keep cam lobe wear down, which was caused by improper hardening of the cam surfaces. A further, compounding problem was that, as you point out, the V4 was expensive to design and build: in an attempt to cut production costs, Honda used gang-bore tooling for the 750 (and early 1000) heads instead of line-bore tooling. The minor discrepancies in tolerances within the heads only made matters worse. I don't agree that the VF750F has been forgotten, there are quite a few here in Oz and the US and UK who own, ride, fettle and love them: I've ridden a couple of sorted ones and they're a great thing. I should also admit that I'm indebted to the VF750's history because without it, Honda would not have completely over-engineered the V4 and created the VFR750 (one of which I own). PS I'm not being picky, I just wanted to add some detail.
Well as ever the sport models get pushed harder and break first, some of the cruisers seem to have survived but very few of the sportier models and I haven’t seen a 1000cc V4 in years
Pity you don't cover the whole degenerate NVT scene. Unwaterproof Lucas electrics, piss poor Amal carbies, cylinder bores with shocking blowholes. I didn't mention I'd bought a Bonneville in the seventies, did I?
@@bikerdood1100 and there you have the demise of the UK bike industry. Nothing was ever designed properly. The Japs were out powering using the right carburetion for job Where do you think any of there four cylinder engines would be with two carbs bhp wise
@@ianlaker6980 true only in part The demise of the British bike industry was rather more complex than that. Really need to do a video on it. It would be long and complicated and take for ever to do, which is why I keep putting it off. The British bike industry was in truth all but before the Japanese arrived, remember AMC collapsed before their arrival in significant numbers. The only way to full understand what happened is to look at each individual company but in essence the British companies concentrated on machines for commuting and general transport but with arrival of cheap cars like the Mini, Cortina etc the core market exploded. You can even see the year it happened when you look at sales figures 1960, the. Mini arrived in 59 remember. It’s how the various companies reacted to this almost overnight sales crisis that really tells the tail.
35000 crank life. Unsurprising in the Enfield Bullet 350 I had since it was a 1948 design. I would say it is totally unacceptable from any Japanese bike made from the late 1960's onwards. Hondas of the 1970s often had cam-chain issues. One I heard about the VF was that adjustment of the valve-train needed a special tool. No idea if it was true or not. I think the British commuter bikes of the 1950's era were designed down to a price, so they had some issues around sketchy engineering. My mate blew up a BSA C15 twice before giving up on it in disgust. He asked me what he had to do to make it reliable. With a straight face I told him: "Fit a Suzuki GN250 engine". The Brockhouse Indian Brave looks like a chunk of War Surplus that has been re-painted to sell to civilians. Until you realise it is a post-war machine because it has telescopic forks.
Well I think all bikes are pretty much built to a price Metals and the machinary used to make the components are much more accurate today and there’s the reliable solid state electrics of course The CBX had other issues too Cam chain tensioner was something I didn’t mention but was all too common in Hondas of the period
As a young man in the UK in the early 80s I searched high and low for a Ducati or a Laverda 500 twin. I couldn't find a Duke for sale and couldn't afford a Laverda. I think I had a lucky swerve there ... At school in the mid-70s, a science teacher rode in daily on a lime metallic RE5 with a Coke tin binnacle. It was a most remarkable thing... I'm not sure I've seen one since. And the early VF stuff.... Yes. Forgotten.
I had the Ducati parallel twin. Mine was the S model with the genuine Desmo head. If you want to fix them, you have to weld baffles in the sump to stop the gearbox venting, lubricant spraying on the rear wheel and brake, and overhearing thru oil loss. You must replace the Motobloc electronics with reliable Bosch gear as quickly as feasible. To really sort them though, go the Norton route, and split the crank and repin to a 74' dynamic firing type. This increases horsepower and sorts the terrible power to weight ratio. To complete this properly, you will need a competent auto electrician to replace the points with a solid state ignition, or be prepared to dremel out a twin lobe eccentric points cam for precise ignition timing. You will also need to reconfigure the valve timing and cam lobes, probably the simplest task to complete but a very satisfying step. I'm the end, you will have a snorty little Desmo Ducati with all the Marzocchi, Brembo etc you could wish for, and a unique street sleeper or track bike, as they sell for as little as their poor reputation can muster.
@@bikerdood1100 from what I heard, management were insistent on a parallel twin to compete with British and early Japanese twins. Fabio Taglioni just ignored the request and let the engineering team sort it without him.
@@bikerdood1100 Surely expense? They (ie Vs) are inherently more expensive to build, and I think it was at this time that Ducati was already struggling with the costs of the bevel drive that was its go-to for the Vs (hence the later belts, but I'm not sure they would have been inclined to make that move a little earlier and develop it for this 500 - who knows? Evidence suggests not, anyway!)
I owned a CBX550F , I absolutely loved it. It was a shame about the ventilated disc brakes, callipers kept seizing up. Mine also had cam chain problems.
I had a 1985 VF500F. I weighed about 160 lbs. and it was perfect for me. The little Interceptor was a great handing bike and had a wide power band. It weighed 440 lbs. wet and redlined at 12,000 RPM! Terrific motorcycle.
The smaller bikes 400 & 500 were by far the best with few of the problems of the bigger bikes. We had a vf400, I do seem to remember it being a fare bit more that 160kg I expect you mean as the V4s weren’t especially light The Vf 1000 & 750s had problems with the cam chain & tensioner and a poor oil supply to the top end so the are cams , especially the 1000 The smaller bikes though much more reliable, in general
Sadly the CBX550 deserves the place. Lovely bike to ride, one of my all time favourites, but when they came out they had appalling top end problems. We did any number of warranty rebuilds, I think there were at least 2, probably three cam tensioner mods.
I had a VF750 back in the late 80’s. Had the factory re call for the cam work and it was fine, a really good bike to ride and quick in its day. Very quick to tip into corners with that 16” front wheel.
16” wheels seem odd today Honda did seem to struggle with top end woes The VF had a poor top end oil supply, bad cam chain and tensioner too Wonder how this got through testing
I raced a 500 interceptor in 1984 and 85 without any engine issues. Although the early 84’s had a serious warranty update to replace the cam chain that parked a bunch of my competitors 🤣
I own a 1956 Norman TS250 in need of restoration. It will require some effort. It's a rare beast with a British Anzani two-stroke twin cylinder engine coupled to an Albion 4-speed gearbox. It was a sales disaster, barely making 18 months of production before the British Anzani motor was usurped by a Villiers 250 twin. Probably for the best, I reckon. However, I am determined to complete the project! Love and peace.
@@bikerdood1100 Will need to get some parts custom made. I do have some original service manuals to go with it and a few spare parts, including a Lycette seat base and weirdly some piston rings! Not this year, got other projects going, but it will happen. Love and peace.
The CBX550 was a very smart bike when it came out my mate had one, smooth and powerful, didn't know about the issues. What about the VF400? quite a revolution at the time.
I wonder who at Honda thought the inboard discs were a good idea? They had to use nonstandard design forks, heavier, add cooling vents more weight, and terrible availability of discs, I had a VT 500, cracking bike to commute into central London on, it was very narrow, but I had to scrap it in the late 90s as it was impossible to find a new replacement front disc and the ones from breakers weren’t much better than the one I had.
My dad was a toolmaker and a good mechanic but he couldn't get a BSA Dandy to run for more than a few miles. He said it was just no good. I've never seen another so I guess he was right.
1:40..I had a Honda 550/4 for a while,all in all it was a pretty good bike but I was not impressed with the inboard discs,I took it to the local workshop to have new pads installed front and rear as I didn't know how to do it,the mechanic was a real nice guy and did a great job but when I picked the bike up he admitted he had never seen inboards before so had to go online to get the manual for it.We did have a good laugh about it.Great guy and quite inexpensive.
Oh man, I usually buy fixer uppers for my personal bikes to save money, I'm pretty handy, but oh LORD the carbs on those honda v4s are such a damn pain to get out and put in. I've wanted a v65 sabre for so long but can't bring myself to get one because of that fact
Honda VF500 made from 1984 to 1986. A neat bike but suffered oiling issues that ate cams. I had a 1986 model and by this time the oiling issues had been addressed but the market damage had been done. It was a shame because my 500 was a fantastic little bike to ride.
@@bikerdood1100 I spent a good part od my riding life on a 2000 VFR800, one of the best bikes I have ever owned so they did get the V4 issues ironed out in the end. The early models were a real crap shoot. Thanks for your content. I like it.
you need to fact check, cbx550 for a start, the VF750 was not the start of the V4 series and Honda fixed the problem which was due to how they machined the heads for the most part and the later ones were not affected, shame they got it wrong initially as they were good bikes when sorted and no not particularly heavy compared to the opposition of the time and made a good bit more power anyway
I had a good friend who had yeh issues with the the Cbx and the Honda Tech had said that the crank life issues were a thing with them Like a lot of machines at yeh time the filtration system wasn’t always up tho the job and regular oil changes were a must. The V4s were lovely things but their chains are pretty rattley even on the smaller bikes. As I often say though it’s all about reputations. Many bikes like the Hondas have issues that get sorted but the damage to the reputation and resulting sales remains.
@@bikerdood1100 very little went wrong with either the V4e 400 or 500, good bikes ion their day and the 500 is now sought after, the CBX550 did have issues though they were sorted in time and the later bikes were capable of big miles, and to add to that the original CX500 was a disaster and major issues, they fixed the problems and it sold by the bucketload so no not always the case and Honda had many own goals before the VFR , the Honda reputation for reliability etc all started with that bike, before it they did not have a particularly good reputation and had many models with issues
Another banger, brother. Keep up the great work. I have a question though. I have noticed you saying "direct overhead cam" a few times. Is that a reference to the engine having an overhead cam or are you intending to say "dual/double overhead cam" and it just comes out wrong? That happens to me a lot and I was just looking for some clarification. Thanks bud!
Hard to understand Honda at times in particular with the notorious Cam Chain problems on many models, you would have thought they had learnt their lesson, I have had several VFR750s and still have a 95 model, they even messed this fine machine up with the V Tech models and they went from the gear driven cams back to chain.
I bought a CBX550. Honda, Power Road, Chiswick, told me all the faults were due to my riding. It threw a rod and ended up at Skellerns, Worcester, one of Honda UK biggest distributors. I went to Skellerns to see my bike. It took a while to find ii. I found it in the rows of of defunct CBX550s and VF750s hidden from Public gaze. 🤣
@@bikerdood1100 It wasn't *just* cam chain tensioners and the track-to-road fads of the day, the rear left hand cylinder of the VF had a tendency to seize, unseating the rider, only to unseize as it cooled..
@@simoncaddick9085 well it’s only a short video, if I’d have wanted to go into greater detail I would have to give the Vf series a video of their own. Video was made some time ago so I can’t remember if I touched on the top end oil supply issues either. You do come across a lot of people who maintain that it’s all made up and bikes are perfect 🙄
I was in awe of the RE5 when it came out, quite recently my mate bought one but didn't rate it one bit, it was soon gone. The bike sold poorly and Suzuki changed the clocks and rear lights to normal items in the hopes of better sales, it didn't help. My only question is why did they make it so complicated when it could have been so simple??
@@bikerdood1100 Well, that's odd, as Hercules' 300 was fine with air cooling, and Norton's twin rotor machine was a bit marginal with air cooling, but was successful with water cooling. It was designed for 85-90 bhp, but was developed to around 150 bhp in racing form.
The clocks and the tail lights were probably designed to show the uniqueness and to display a futuristic look. Suzuki were convinced at the time that the rotary engine would be the engine of the future and gambled heavy on it. The weight, cooling problems and complexity of the engine combined with the high fuel usage are what did the bike in. Generally speaking I think it's fair to say that rotary engines were an answer looking for a non-existing problem and that's why they never really caught on.
VF 750 ~ cam chains and tensioners, and oil supply. And case hardening on the cams. And the issue of being one of the first 16" front wheel bikes. They did have (for the time) a lot of cornering clearance. That meant on a track, in the hands of a racer, they had an advantage. I'm Australian, and they won the Australian Castrol 6 hour. That had a lot to do with fuel-tank size and the time they could spend on circuit, combined with quite a few degrees more cornering clearance. That led to a very distorted, very unrealistic idea of how "fast" the bike was as a day to day roadbike. It wasn't just a case of circuit v road, it depended very heavily which circuit you were talking about. The 6h, was held (until almost the end) at Amaroo, which was a very small, very tight circuit. I suggest looking at the performance of the VF 750 (first model I'm talking about here) at the Isle of Mann. The 2nd gen VF750, the VFR, did stunningly well at the IoM, it was a great motorbike. But the 1st was a bit forgettable. There were a number of things about it that needed fixing. Then, not mentioned, the VFR led to the RC30, which was a massively successful race bike, but it also had some reliability issues. As delivered, oil return from the top end of the motor, was quite adequate for street riding, but not good enough for racing. So all the oil collected in the cam covers, and then the engines blew up. Took a while to figure out what was happening and why, and how one might go about fixing it.
I really enjoy this channel. I've got to ride only one Indian and it was a very old one and it was just cool. Great bike? I don't know but a restored beauty that I wish I had a pic of me on it.
Had a CBX550F2 for around 6 years. Never had any problems with it. Thought it was a very reliable bike... Inboard brakes were a pain but other than thatvit wasn't bad... Reading some of the comments here, I must've been one of the lucky ones with an anomaly...
Like "rare" vehicles : nobody wanted them when they were sold, most of them broke down and were too expensive to fix, the plant making them burnt down and the employees were on strike before , manufacturer tried to get rid of them as they were giving them a bad name, main shipment of them stolen by pirates who dumped them in the sea when they found out they were worthless
Only a bad reputation is owned forever... ;-) Today, 40 years later, there are still quite a few VF750Fs on the road. I guess that means the updated engine parts worked. When using today's engine oil, e.g. Motul 5100 then there should be no problem, as long as inspection and service is carried out.
I was expecting to see the Yamaha TX750. A 750 vertical twin? 360 degree crank? Let's give it balancer shafts to smooth out the vibration. All well and good till some genius decided to put them in the sump. Where they whipped up the oil into a froth that was no use at lubricating the engine.
In 1988 I bought a 1985 VF 750 FE with 3000 miles on the clock. Came to service it and found camshafts worn out. £600 pounds later,four new cams and two rockers fitted bike was back on the road again.it had the modified oil supply which obviously didn't work so got rid of it at a loss.
Good. Unfortunately they didn’t all man that by any means. Obviously well looked after You are the first commenter who has had a VF with anything like that mileage
A good indicator is the market place There are lots of high mileage VFRs out there but very few VFs Similarly there are an awful lot of Gs750s out there but the Xs is extremely rare now Why simply because they didn’t survive
A mate and I were riding our bikes in rural Australia, me on a Honda CB450, he on a Ducati Desmo 500 parallel twin, when it spat him down the road at high speed, resulting in a prolonged stay in hospital ! The problem turned out to be the sleeve (?) in the oil galleries between the head and the barrel. It turns out that the sleeve was too long, and the head tightened down on the sleeve, instead of the barrel. At high speed, in the Australian summer, the gasket burnt out at that spot, resulting in the motor seizing, and the ensuing catastrophe ! The Suzuki RE5 was a wonderful machine to ride ! The first model had a strange double ignition system, for acceleration and deceleration. The last model was more standard looking, simpler, and a beautiful bike. Travelled many miles on both models belonging to a mate. Another disaster was the Yamaha TX500 parallel twin. Bike Australia magazine's bike of the yearBy the time they had fixed the problems between barrel and head warping, it's reputation had killed what was another (eventually)good machine. Likewise the Yammie TX 750, which I once owned (Luckily the last and good model ! )
Well those Ducati parallel twins were definitely some of Italys worst. The cam chain was far to skimpy and would stretch rapidly and occasionally brake. The Suzuki likely failed because of its weirdness but that been said, like all Wankel engines they are prone to seal wear, they were not helped either by the 70s fuel crises because they do have a drink problem.😂 Yamaha seemed to have a lot of issues with models earlier the XS 750 was similarly blighted by problems early on which badly effected sales. Makes you wonder if they rushed models out too early. From The comments I have had I get the feeling Yamaha build quality could be quite variable too in the 70s and it something they have made a concerted effort to improve on over the years
I've got the 82 VF 750 Magna ( for those that don't know it's the cruiser version of the 750 Sabre ) and I love it. 18" front and 16" back wheels. It's done about 50,000 klm and still runs great . It's shaft drive which should outlast me.
got an 84 700c low idle time & 3k oil changes pay off.got 22k on it now.cams still like new when checked valve adjustment at nearly 19k.i keep it at 3500 rpm & above for slow riding to keep oil volume to heads.seems to be working fine.no pitting or flaking of cams yet.
I owned 2 VF750s (NOT VF750S) and loved them-the first was stolen but I eventually,several years later tracked down another.Not as sweet as the first, but lovely to chuck around and superb on the brakes. Always lusted after the VFR but a serious accident put paid to that dream,and sports bikes are a thing of the past now. Still love the look and sound of them though, a classic bike especially in the Blue/White/Red that sort of mimicked HRC and Rothmans Racing superbikes colours ridden by Mick Grant et al.
It’s capital S when the heading you choose is capitals only There’s no doubt the VF had more than its share of top end woes The 1000 was worse The VFR was a quantum leap from the early bikes. If a bit heavy
@@bikerdood1100 Eh?? I was referring to TWO VFs, I owned and the NOT the VF750S which was the first model from Honda, a sort of V4 cruiser and not the F sports bike. I am not aware that my use of the capital letter in the model name was incorrect, in fact I'm sure it is quite correct.
@@seavee2000 much family with the F model the Sabre is pretty rare here although I have seen a few. Seen very few F models in recent years particularly when compared to the VFR which seem to have survived in good numbers
I had a 84 750 Honda interceptor they changed it to a 700 in 85 due to a stupid tax law in the US. I loved mine had supertrap exhaust and was a well handling bike. I bought another 20 years later 04 VFR 800.
Interesting grouping. Norton made the rotory work (sort of) which makes the poor Suzuki seem that much worse. Glad they went recip 4 stroke, though! Some really cool bikes have followed.
The little Indian looks interesting, to say the least. There was a guy in my area with an RE5 that had classic plates. I love the concept of the rotary engine but the fact that they wear out quickly really put me off. I wish they'd bring back the two stroke, but emissions.....
Nope It’s a triangle That’s three strokes 🙄 Watch one in slow motion. It doesn’t help to think about the engine in piston engine terms If it ran a four stroke cycle it would need 4 sides 😂😂😂😂😂
Honda came close to bankruptcy in the 80's from warranty claims. They moved seasoned designers to the car arm and left a new generation to design their new models. On the VF's they chose to mill the cam holders rather than line bore. The results were fairly disasterous,,, On the upside, to save the company they came back with the VFR750. I came very close to buying a cbx550 until a mate offered me his GPz550. Thats a bike that deserves its own vid. On a smile per mile per pound they were unbeatable. I sold my Bandit1200 to buy my fourth "Jeep" when I grew tired on living on beans n toast to keep the Bandit in gas n tyres...
Well Honda were very overstretched because of their push towards cars Oil Sutton the top was insufficient Eaton the bigger capacity bikes But they have had a bit of a history with top ends which lasted through to the early CBRs
Honourable mentions The Ariel Square four loved and deadly. The design risked overheating in the engine centre. And many experienced this. But the real killer was the rear suspension geometry that as the bushes wore could rear wheel steer and toss the rider off. This risk increased with enthusiastic riding. Many of today's riders are aware of this and as elderly folk they ride in a more genteel manner to avoid the shrubbery. My Honda CB400 Super Four with VCT with ABS. Fantastic reliable engine great handling and brakes. A really great bike loved it... Accept for the seat when touring... it was designed by Satan the most uncomfortable seat on a modern bike I have experienced
Ariel did build a swing arm prototype but didn’t bother to put it into production as the model was on its way out. In a lot of ways the square four doesn’t make any sense as a four stroke engine, breathing and cooling were always a problem. Don’t know much about the super 4, I don’t believe it was ever an official import here. Sounds a bit crappy though, so perhaps we didn’t miss much
I had an Ariel Square 1000 cc 1955 , all alloy four port model , never never overheated , was not mad fast around 100MPH , handling was OK for a plunger frame . I drove the shit out of it , loved it . However the early iron head models did get hot
Honda was incapable of making a properly functioning cam chain tensioner in the 80's; all push and no cushioning wore the chains/tensioners out prematurely. Every Honda had the classic camchain death rattle.....
honda had a great reputation for building quality bikes but as a former small independent repair shop they had plenty of stinkers in their closet. Seemed to me it became more common from 1979 on. I blame it on computerized design and lack of testing. Lets face it the consumer has pretty much become these company's R&D.
Well you do have to wonder if they did the test miles on those V4s. They should have been great bikes. Dumb really because it must have cost them a fortune to develop something so different
i had the vf1000f when they were new . besides the tires and rims being off set and hard to find replacements the darn thing kept eating the cams .. it finally threw the 1/4 chain and i junked it with only 908 miles on it . honda never got my bussiness ever again.......
Well it does happen from time to time Definitely not just Honda Yamaha XS 500 & 750 Twins and XS750 triple spring to mind History is littered with the same mistakes from many companies
Another Disaster, if you are interested, is the German Megola from the 30's. I mean how can someone build a Motobike without Clutch? Plus I think it's ugly too!
"It's a shame not many V4s are made any more" Hmm, maybe you should talk to all those companies that used to make V Twins, especially Ducati and Aprilia. There is literally only one manufacturer that makes V twins for sports bikes; KTM Plenty of V4s
@@bikerdood1100 TBF, The Big H was the only manufacturer that made V4s at the time, and the gear-driven versions were virtually forced on the company because nobody would trust the chain driven ones any more. That's hardly surprising as the costs involved in shoring up their market had pushed the company close to the brink of bankruptcy. I'm really glad to see the back of the inline fours. Once the sport bike market started to weaken, the writing was on the wall for I$s/UJMs. I found that they demanded such commitment that they were ultimately unsatisfying. I much prefer a big triple or a big twin, and a big V twin really is a very satisfying configuration to ride, whether you ride fast or slow.
@@kasperkjrsgaard1447 XVZ can hardly be classified as a sports bike. The V-Max also had a V4, as did the Pan European, but none of them would classify as sporting.
Its a funny thing how many bikes with clear issues are nevertheless highly sought after. Harleys could and would leak oil furiously in the 1970s but if you wanted the bike with a killer attitude then it was Harley or nothing and Triumph was dumped along with everything else. My Sukuki GT 750 isnt logical. Its extremely sophisticated moderately lethal an ecological disaster and highly highly sought after.😮
Well a motorcycle isn’t about logic after all As for pollution and old bike isn’t as bad as most think Buy a new electric car every 3 years however that’s another story
As one of the mugs who bought the CBX550 back in 1982, I can confirm that it had considerably more flaws than the crankshaft and silly disc covers mentioned here. The camchain tensioner would give up at 6000 miles causing the Honda to spit its giblets over the road, long before the bike reached the mileage when the crankshaft would complete the task. It's air forks were utterly useless and leaked oil as soon as their new seals hit the road. No, Hondas are not reliable! I never bought another. Great channel but many unhappy memories.
I think the same can be said of most of the machines I included. What was it with Honda and their Cam chain ste ups ?
@@bikerdood1100 Don't forget the "trusty" CX 500, much favoured by despatch riders, that too suffered the Honda "death rattle". It was shortly after that Honda fitted their VFR with bevel gear driven camshafts, only recently reverting back to chain. Fortunately they've now discontinued it. A tedious litany of flops that ought not to be forgotten.
@@BunyipToldMe Cx500 ok once they changed the cam chain tensioner did 50 k on one.
"Knock knock"
"Who's there?"
CX 500 😂
My 550 f2c is on its original crankshaft. Nearly 80k on it now, I need to get it going again, needs exhaust, battery and a full service. I expect it to run.
I bought a second hand VF750F in '88 with about 33k on it. I lusted after it in school in '83 when they came out. When I took it for a test ride the owner warned about it falling into the corners....16" wheel. So adjusted riding style and never had a problem. Engine ran fine too. I'm rebuilding one now, stalled project, but it has always held a piece of my heart.
I expect finding parts to restore isn’t so simple given that they weren’t in production for too long
Nice bikes, I bought a brand new one in 84 loved mine. 20 years later I bought a 04 VFR 800
You right about the 16"wheel, I had that problem at first with the CBX750, I then got suckered with the cam lubrication problems with the VF1000
I had a CBX550F2. I even started my racing career on it. Yes the inboard discs were a stupid idea but it handled great it had a short wheelbase and a beautiful torquey power delivery. The highlight is the headers with the one crossing over the other 3.
My uncle had one
It was troublesome but very pretty with its red white n blue paint work
@@bikerdood1100 I also had one, and it gave me no problems, except, of course, for the habitual cam chain tensioner. Mine was eventually stolen and destroyed by the damned tealeaves. Mine had an insanely loud Sebring full system on it and I could hear the thing being thrashed around the town. It was eventually dumped near the Police HQ, with the con rods making a break for freedom. I got an XJ650 with the insurance money, now that was a truly great bike.
I've not had a Honda since. Tried a few and every time I've though WTF would anybody have one of these?
My status as a Honda Fanboy was destroyed by their inability, oner a period of more than 10 years, to design a camchain tensioner that was up to the task.
If you want to do another episode on biking disasters, I'd nominate the Honda camchain and tensioner. Truly abysmal.
@@davidcolin6519 The late '60s-on Honda 750 was prone to camchain tensioner failure as well. Not just Honda, though - my Suzuki GS450 had its one fail too.
Hmm. Still got mine in the garage. An '83 on a Y plate, cbx550f2c. Got just under 80k on it. Had Tony Galea do the camchain and tensioner mod at 27k.....no problems after 50k+ miles. Bought it at 24k in 93. I understand they're worth a bit now😁
I bought a interceptor 1000, 85 model. Very nice. I went up a tooth on the front sprocket. The engine made power like an electric motor. Smooth up to 8000 then there was a nice little bump up to 10,000.
The suspension was okay but not up to the potential the bike had. I worked at a Honda dealer as parts manager. The bike was sitting on the showroom floor too long. The owner of the dealership sold it to me for $3500 to get it off his books. I loved it. Added clipons.
Then I had a baby boy. Sold the bike because every time I rode it I went 100 mph. That baby boy deserved to have a daddy growing up. He's 35 now he owns a thruxton and I modified a moto guzzi California stone 1100 into an old man's cafe racer. Okay, so I was desperate and I couldn't afford gxr or a hayabusa or the Honda rrr
It might have been an '84. It was the VF1000F.
I’ve had most of the Honda V4s and currently have an 85 V65 Sabre. If you can find one that isn’t already ruined ,you can install an aftermarket oil line kit that goes from a plate at the oil filter directly to the cylinder heads. So far so good love the bike. The bike is very comfy and pulls like a mule
Sabre does generally appear to be less troublesome
I suspect the type of bike it is helps
A friend had a V 65 Sabre and he was the guy I rode with that could keep up with my Z1 900. Good times.
Interesting collection thanks. The VF750 also suffered more than most from it's 16" front wheel which while ok on a race track did not do well on less than smooth public roads. I watched in amazement and horror as a mate ahead of me went into a terminal tank slapper on his VF750 which spat him off big time at about 120ks right in front of me. I only just missed him and the bike ended it's days in a creek bed off the side of the road!
Those 16 inch wheels, there was a real craze for them for a while. Fashion ?
My 1986 GSX1100EG had a 16” front wheel. Steering damper was a must as the front wheel went light over every crest in the road under power and like to wave at passers by.
@@bikerdood1100 Nope there were sound ideas. They were used in road racing 1982/83-1983/84. Pretty sure Suzuki was first with it. Reason lower rotational momentum for quicker steering mostly. They could fit wider tires (weighing more) to exert more brake force into the ground.
The 16" were of course limiting the brake's size. They were still not standard, so for at least every day life, they limitied tire choices.
In 1984 at least Yamaha (Eddie Lawson) had 17"/17" wheels in road racing. Guess it stayed that way since ( haven't kept up)
Chocolate cams!
@@impalaSS65 Strangely, I think in racing they use a size they have used since the 90s I believe, but which I don't think we've ever seen on the road: 16.5".
Back around 91 I worked at a Honda dealer. If they had a chance to buy a Magna or Interceptor that had the cam noise but was otherwise in good condition, they’d buy it. There wasn’t any money to be made, but come winter when there were no customer bikes to work on… kept the mechanics from being laid off. Come spring, it’s for sale with brand new cam drive professionally installed. Sales guy who sold one got a small bonus, as there was often zero profit and therefore zero commission.
Back then, because of a production war, you could buy a brand new 1988 Shadow off the show room, and we could order a brand new (old stock) 1987 VRF1000F. There was also a big bonus for anyone who could sell a PC800.
PC was a good idea but in truth Americans generally see bikes as a leisure item unlike many other places in the world where a bike is the primary means of transport
Not sure if Honda fully understood this when pitched it at the US market
Tempting Americans from the cars was a Big ask
Agreed. It was a generally practical motorcycle with its large lockable weather proof storage, simple maintenance, affordable. Back then Oldsmobile had an ad campaign “this is not your father’s Oldsmobile” trying to distance themselves from the wood grain station wagons you’d associate with the sweater vest wearing completely domesticated, practical, family man. I kinda thought the PC800 was the motorcycle equivalent of the wood grain station wagon- which here was largely replaced by (for most people) less practical large 4x4 SUV’s.
I had a vf1000f interceptor. It truly was like trying to ride an aircraftcarrier. Still loved it though.
Didn’t turn to sharply then
A guy in the next flat bought a VF750 as soon as they were released. I never understood how Honda failed to produce a reliable cam chain tensioner, given their extensive knowledge of 4-strokes. He spent more time commuting on the train than his bike.
Cam chain tensioners were a bit of a theme with Honda
They added gear driven cams to the later vfrs and it was a hell of an engine
Funny thing is, back in the day, one of the bike mags ran a story about the tensioner woes and had an engineer give it a thorough once over. The engineer eventually found that one of the cam sprockets, can't remember if it was inlet or exhaust, was about 5 thou or so off centre. This rapidly destroyed the tensioner mechanism. So one possible cause there.
Can you please tell me what was the exact model of that tricolour Ducati Desmo that briefly appeared at the end of the parallel twins section?
It’s a customised Pantah, the fairing isn’t standard
Desmo is a feature. Not the model name.
Good list, been riding 50 years, remember these cant think of one to add, you nailed it.
Oh there’s always more
Maico 490 Alpha 1...after producing the best production MX of all time, they brought out a single shock model that used the snap the rear shock, and it all but finished the company, which should have been on it's way to the mainstream after the success of the Mega2
The instrument cluster on the Re5 reminds me of Rosey the robot's head.
It is very SiFi
I found the VF400F2 to be pretty good as you said, valve clearances tricky to adjust properly and don’t leave on side stand as fork seals will soon start leaking. VF500F used to overheat as did my VF750FD (used to throw the coolant every so often even with checking everything and new radiator cap etc…). So pleased with my CB650R, no hassle at all.
We ran a vf400 for a couple of years with few problems despite its age. The smaller bikes always had a much better reputation for reliability than is bigger brothers
That was very interesting. Other than the little Indian I am familiar with all these bikes. It was a lottery in the period 75 to 85 whether the manufacturer had conducted sufficient development prior to launching a model onto the market. Even bikes as reliable as the CX500 had some initial teething problems. The VF750 was a disaster and did Honda's reputation no good at all.
Very true it was definitely a time of bold experimentation. Ok not all were completely successful but it was a much more varied period than today where falling profits have resulted in some very unadventurous designs
I had an RE5 for 8 years. When it was running it rode really well as a tourer but too heavy for sporty use. New, they cost more than a Kawasaki Z1 and only appointed Suzuki dealers were authorised to deal with them. The motor ran very HOT and mine cracked its rotor housing across the spark plug hole, twice in my ownership at around 18k. This resulted in two expensive engine rebuilds. MPG average was about 38-40mpg. Despite it's problems I loved it.
The rotary engine had a lot going for it but just too many issues
I own one but needs restauration.
My project after retirement :-)
Guess it needs time lol
I own a NSU RO 80 too, so wankel engine is not totally secret to me. Still got a lot respect of it lol
I put thousands of miles on my cbx550 and she never missed a beat as did my v4 , after hearing about the camshaft problem on the v4 I just let her warm up for a few minutes before riding off, I really wish I still had them 😮😊
For the CBX I’d say it really depends just how any thousands, ever noticed how short the bikes production run was.
But the reputation of the V4s, especially in the larger capacities is very much deserved
Their problems cost Honda a fortune. There’s a good reason the only lasted 4 years and then VFR decades
Vf750 interceptor was a great machine in the states, sold mine with 60k trouble free miles, and it was ridden quite hard by a pro-AMA racer
Bike definitely improved during its production run but it’s not hard to see why the VFR with its gear driven cams was introduced in 86
Oh no my VF750 is on the list, no surprise really. Nearly 40 years old now and she starts and runs perfect. 85hp is perfectly adequate for me. Thanks for the video
As wit so many of these bike if you get a good one, well you get a good one 😎
My VF500F2 had improperly-hardened valve tops. The cam hammered the valve past the collets and it dropped a valve at 7,000 rpm. Carnage! Having stripped it down, I can confirm it was extremely complicated and difficult to work on. We followed the instructions in the genuine workshop manual which actually resulted in both inlet camshafts being installed back to front and running backwards.
Generally the smaller the earlier V4s the better
Had an early VF400 which proved solid enough, the problems grew worse capacity
Cam chain, adjuster, oil supply and so on
People often make comment about chocolate cams but I suspect it’s all about the oil
I had an 1st year US VF750 (1983). The oiling problem had already shown up in Europe the year before, so I immediately did the recommended fix, which I don't remember well but think it involved running a small supplemental oil line to the cylinder heads. Got very OCD about oil changes. Did a precautionary overhaul at 20k miles. It was pristine.
1st perimeter frame, 1st mono-shock rear suspension, 1st production slipper clutch, hydraulic clutch. Fantastic motor and zero frame flex made it a back road monster. It had one flaw. The 16" front wheel made it very flickable but the bike was very sensitive to tire profile. The right front tire made or broke the bike's handling. I forget what tire did what now, but more rounded or triangular made it want to fall into turns. I settled on some R-compound semi-race Dunlops and it was neutral to wanting just a light tug on the inside bar to hold arc. Sweetness. I destroyed about 5 pairs of jeans until I discovered knee cups. OMG, that is true. What an idiot.
It’s a shame I loved the look of the sporty models, but reputations are difficult to shake and this couple with high prices didn’t do the bikes any favours in sales terms. On the bright side the following VFR model is a true classic
@@bikerdood1100 At the time, the VF made HUGE ripples in the industry. It was the first Japanese homogulation bike for Superbike racing. The perimeter frame, single-shock suspension, slipper clutch. The VFR and GSXR refined those things in different ways, but there can only be one first. First time you saw one.... "wow, everything else is now old."
It was the triangular profile that had too quick of a turn in. It would literally fall into a turn
Yep. Well done mate. 5 outstanding lemons. Ive been around long enough to see all of those in the showrooms....haha. The 500 Ducati....you couldnt give them away!
Yeh me too
I remember seeing one the the Ducatis on a local dealership about 25 years ago, it looked very pretty but a knew their reputation. It was like so many in really good condition simply because no one rides them too far
@@bikerdood1100 So true. You should do a post on maybe 5 or 10 of the best...the honda 4s...the GS, GSX Suzukis, Yamaha 1100, Yamaha LC, RZ 250 and 350, Yamaha XS650, the Triumph Trident, BSA Rocket3 , all the Guzzis! Haha. We were fortunate to live through a real glory period of bike manufacturing...unlike now. The current bikes are magnificent in a lot of ways, but they hardly stir the soul...
I really loved those VFR's, I am inexplicably drawn to them . I think they sound incredible and look bad ass (especially weird since I have a round headlight fetish and think these are just perfect with their little crt tv set headlights).
They do have a sound all of their own, especially when you open the taps a little
Yeah, I remember the issues hitting corners hard with the 16” front wheel. The fixes were well known then, stiffening the front end compression without affecting rebound. I don’t remember the specifics but the shops knew the fixes.
Or having a 17” wheel 🤷🏼
The VFR FD had cam problem on about 14% of the first run. They where soft and decame clattery after only 14,000 miles. Most people had no problem but the bike press blew up the story. Plenty of bikes around with high mileages. Freddie Spencer won the Daytona 200 on the FD 750 with a trick exhaust gearbox duspension etc. It was revolutionary. These days its still a great sport tourer . One of the best all round bikes ever.
There was also the poor oil supply to the top end on bot the 1000 and the 750, smaller bikes were less troublesome. Let’s not forget the cam chain tensioner, a Honda classic 😂
There’s a good Reason the VFR appeared as early as 86 and had gear driven cams.
The VFR is one of the best
It’s lighter and better built 🤷🏼
The early VF500s had issues with spun main bearings. A friend had a VF750 which he and his brother kept crashing on a regular basis. The front end geometry was to blame, not only did the 16" front wheel not like midcorner bumps, but it also behaved very differently from the 19" wheels which were still common at the time. When he first let me ride his VF it surprised me going into a corner: with a 19" wheel you have to keep constant pressure to keep the bike leaned over, but with the 16" wheel you had to keep constant pressure in the opposite direction to keep it from leaning too far over and sliding out. It required a serious mental adjustment. I clearly remember when the RE5 came out: there was nothing fundamentally wrong with it except for the flaws inherent in the Wankel rotary which are major and fundamental. It's main problem as I remember is that here was a bike that was expensive, complicated (two ignition systems, an oil sump *and* and a separate two-stroke oil injection system), and ugly. I mean it worked well, but It offered no improvement over cheaper inline fours while being heavier and as thirsty as the big two-stroke triples of a generation before. Suzuki made the same mistake with it as they and everyone else would repeat a decade later with the Turbo bikes.
The RE5 also had a dual barrel carburetor. The secondary (this is from memory, so I might be off) was opened mostly by vacuum and partially by cable. It never really worked well. I was a mechanic at a Suzuki/Kawasaki dealership at the time. You had to go to a Suzuki school to be certified to work on the RE5 for warranty work. I had not but liked working on them anyway and if it was out of warranty I sought them out. I noticed that the "certified" guy frequently "cured" problems by disconnecting the secondary. He said this was an "off the record" tip at the school and it wasn't needed. This sounded dubious to me but he was very sound go-to guru kind of mechanic. So I finally gave in and did it, went for a test ride.. and he was dead right. Maybe at redline it would have been different but the neither the motor or the chassis wanted you to run around at redline anyway. Oddly for a rotary maybe, but it was a low-mid to high-mid range motor, the gearbox was slow and not happy at high-rpm shifts. I have wondered over the years how many guys bought an RE5 to restore and" fixed" it by reconnecting the secondary.
When trend they can definitely stay in the eighties is those tiny wheels
One of the big problems with the 16 inch front wheels was most tire profiles that size were triangular in shape. Finding a round profile made a world of difference. I bought a 1984 vf1000 the guy that owned it said it had a bent frame and handled wierd. I put a metzler round profile tire on the front and it handled great
One of my ex-partners, she had a Ducati 500
parallel twin. It certainly vibrated a lot. Maybe that’s why she liked it. I’m sure the points ran at full engine speed - the ignition timing always went out very quickly. I adapted a Piranha electronic ignition kit for a CZ250 Twin - it ran much better after that.
The design’s principle problems were excessive vibes and a very weedy cam chain.
Cams by Cadburys was the VF750. Honda overengineered the VFR though, which made it bulletproof.
Poor top end oil supply didn’t help
@@bikerdood1100 I had a Vf400. Same problem. Honda sold these little bottles of black stuff at exorbitant prices that you added to the oil. Turned out to be moly. I had a CBX 550 with the half fairing. I thought it was a great bike.
@@peterround4818 I had the vf400 for a couple of years, it was in truth spared the worst of the problems, they got worse as the engine got bigger. Which explains why the little talked about vf1000 is so rare
Re: the Honda VF. The problems with the 750 V4 only really started showing up with the 750F (Interceptor in the US); it had been sold for a year or more in the 750S (Magna?) without too many complaints because it was tuned for a cruiser-type bike whose riders wouldn't chase the redline all day. When the VF750F turned up, it was tuned to make power at higher revs, which stressed the faults that were less obvious in the cruiser. You quite correctly point out oil starvation to the top end, but it wasn't critical: the reason Honda developed a retro-fit kit with two additional oil feeds (one to each head) was to try to keep cam lobe wear down, which was caused by improper hardening of the cam surfaces. A further, compounding problem was that, as you point out, the V4 was expensive to design and build: in an attempt to cut production costs, Honda used gang-bore tooling for the 750 (and early 1000) heads instead of line-bore tooling. The minor discrepancies in tolerances within the heads only made matters worse.
I don't agree that the VF750F has been forgotten, there are quite a few here in Oz and the US and UK who own, ride, fettle and love them: I've ridden a couple of sorted ones and they're a great thing. I should also admit that I'm indebted to the VF750's history because without it, Honda would not have completely over-engineered the V4 and created the VFR750 (one of which I own).
PS I'm not being picky, I just wanted to add some detail.
Well as ever the sport models get pushed harder and break first, some of the cruisers seem to have survived but very few of the sportier models and I haven’t seen a 1000cc V4 in years
Pity you don't cover the whole degenerate NVT scene. Unwaterproof Lucas electrics, piss poor Amal carbies, cylinder bores with shocking blowholes. I didn't mention I'd bought a Bonneville in the seventies, did I?
There’s time yet
We had a Tiger 750. It didn’t really give us any trouble to be honest. Who needs two carbs? Twice the trouble on a British bike
@@bikerdood1100 and there you have the demise of the UK bike industry.
Nothing was ever designed properly.
The Japs were out powering using the right carburetion for job
Where do you think any of there four cylinder engines would be with two carbs bhp wise
@@ianlaker6980 true only in part
The demise of the British bike industry was rather more complex than that.
Really need to do a video on it.
It would be long and complicated and take for ever to do, which is why I keep putting it off. The British bike industry was in truth all but before the Japanese arrived, remember AMC collapsed before their arrival in significant numbers. The only way to full understand what happened is to look at each individual company but in essence the British companies concentrated on machines for commuting and general transport but with arrival of cheap cars like the Mini, Cortina etc the core market exploded. You can even see the year it happened when you look at sales figures 1960, the. Mini arrived in 59 remember.
It’s how the various companies reacted to this almost overnight sales crisis that really tells the tail.
35000 crank life. Unsurprising in the Enfield Bullet 350 I had since it was a 1948 design. I would say it is totally unacceptable from any Japanese bike made from the late 1960's onwards.
Hondas of the 1970s often had cam-chain issues. One I heard about the VF was that adjustment of the valve-train needed a special tool. No idea if it was true or not.
I think the British commuter bikes of the 1950's era were designed down to a price, so they had some issues around sketchy engineering. My mate blew up a BSA C15 twice before giving up on it in disgust. He asked me what he had to do to make it reliable. With a straight face I told him: "Fit a Suzuki GN250 engine".
The Brockhouse Indian Brave looks like a chunk of War Surplus that has been re-painted to sell to civilians. Until you realise it is a post-war machine because it has telescopic forks.
Well I think all bikes are pretty much built to a price
Metals and the machinary used to make the components are much more accurate today and there’s the reliable solid state electrics of course
The CBX had other issues too
Cam chain tensioner was something I didn’t mention but was all too common in Hondas of the period
As a young man in the UK in the early 80s I searched high and low for a Ducati or a Laverda 500 twin. I couldn't find a Duke for sale and couldn't afford a Laverda. I think I had a lucky swerve there ...
At school in the mid-70s, a science teacher rode in daily on a lime metallic RE5 with a Coke tin binnacle.
It was a most remarkable thing... I'm not sure I've seen one since.
And the early VF stuff.... Yes. Forgotten.
Well RE5 didn’t sell, too heavy and too different, with hindsight going all in on the rotary as Suzuki and a few others did seems a strange decision
I had the Ducati parallel twin. Mine was the S model with the genuine Desmo head. If you want to fix them, you have to weld baffles in the sump to stop the gearbox venting, lubricant spraying on the rear wheel and brake, and overhearing thru oil loss.
You must replace the Motobloc electronics with reliable Bosch gear as quickly as feasible.
To really sort them though, go the Norton route, and split the crank and repin to a 74' dynamic firing type. This increases horsepower and sorts the terrible power to weight ratio. To complete this properly, you will need a competent auto electrician to replace the points with a solid state ignition, or be prepared to dremel out a twin lobe eccentric points cam for precise ignition timing. You will also need to reconfigure the valve timing and cam lobes, probably the simplest task to complete but a very satisfying step.
I'm the end, you will have a snorty little Desmo Ducati with all the Marzocchi, Brembo etc you could wish for, and a unique street sleeper or track bike, as they sell for as little as their poor reputation can muster.
Wonder why they didn’t just build a simple V twin from the get go
@@bikerdood1100 from what I heard, management were insistent on a parallel twin to compete with British and early Japanese twins. Fabio Taglioni just ignored the request and let the engineering team sort it without him.
@@bikerdood1100 Surely expense? They (ie Vs) are inherently more expensive to build, and I think it was at this time that Ducati was already struggling with the costs of the bevel drive that was its go-to for the Vs (hence the later belts, but I'm not sure they would have been inclined to make that move a little earlier and develop it for this 500 - who knows? Evidence suggests not, anyway!)
I owned a CBX550F , I absolutely loved it. It was a shame about the ventilated disc brakes, callipers kept seizing up. Mine also had cam chain problems.
What was it with Honda and Cam chains and tensioners
I had a 1985 VF500F. I weighed about 160 lbs. and it was perfect for me. The little Interceptor was a great handing bike and had a wide power band. It weighed 440 lbs. wet and redlined at 12,000 RPM! Terrific motorcycle.
The smaller bikes 400 & 500 were by far the best with few of the problems of the bigger bikes. We had a vf400, I do seem to remember it being a fare bit more that 160kg I expect you mean as the V4s weren’t especially light
The Vf 1000 & 750s had problems with the cam chain & tensioner and a poor oil supply to the top end so the are cams , especially the 1000
The smaller bikes though much more reliable, in general
@@bikerdood1100 Correct. The 500 weighed 200 kg wet.
@@pdm2201 that’s 454lb so not terrible but heavier than the equivalent straight four, they lacked the character of the V4s though
Sadly the CBX550 deserves the place. Lovely bike to ride, one of my all time favourites, but when they came out they had appalling top end problems. We did any number of warranty rebuilds, I think there were at least 2, probably three cam tensioner mods.
The CBX550 was at time, highest hp per litre next to to the RD/Z 350. Too bad it turned out to become a turd.
Rode one for a while, it was great to ride but gave no end of engine problems
I had a VF750 back in the late 80’s. Had the factory re call for the cam work and it was fine, a really good bike to ride and quick in its day. Very quick to tip into corners with that 16” front wheel.
16” wheels seem odd today
Honda did seem to struggle with top end woes
The VF had a poor top end oil supply, bad cam chain and tensioner too
Wonder how this got through testing
Well said. I'll go with all of that. Thank you for the timely reminders.
Thanks for the feedback
A bloke in Queensland put a XS650 engine in a Ducati 500,he said it fit quite easy,a reliable Ducati or a good handling Yammy 650 win win.
Seems like a plan
i put a z650 in mine after the small end snaped off the con rod rode well and engine was cheaper than the parts for the duke
I had actually forgot about the Ducati parallel twin but I find it a very good looking bike.
Well it was pretty
I raced a 500 interceptor in 1984 and 85 without any engine issues. Although the early 84’s had a serious warranty update to replace the cam chain that parked a bunch of my competitors 🤣
Generally the smaller capacity machines were less prone to problems. It’s noticeable that the 1000 was the shortest lived
I own a 1956 Norman TS250 in need of restoration. It will require some effort. It's a rare beast with a British Anzani two-stroke twin cylinder engine coupled to an Albion 4-speed gearbox.
It was a sales disaster, barely making 18 months of production before the British Anzani motor was usurped by a Villiers 250 twin. Probably for the best, I reckon. However, I am determined to complete the project! Love and peace.
Good luck. The Anzani motors are rare beasts, might take a while to source the parts, not like Villiers in terms of parts supply for sure
@@bikerdood1100 Will need to get some parts custom made. I do have some original service manuals to go with it and a few spare parts, including a Lycette seat base and weirdly some piston rings!
Not this year, got other projects going, but it will happen.
Love and peace.
Had a VFW 500 loved that nicks at the time now with my fjr 1300 I’m happy again
The smaller engines were definitely the ones to have
The CBX550 was a very smart bike when it came out my mate had one, smooth and powerful, didn't know about the issues. What about the VF400? quite a revolution at the time.
Had a Vf400 went pretty well and a bit less trouble
I wonder who at Honda thought the inboard discs were a good idea? They had to use nonstandard design forks, heavier, add cooling vents more weight, and terrible availability of discs, I had a VT 500, cracking bike to commute into central London on, it was very narrow, but I had to scrap it in the late 90s as it was impossible to find a new replacement front disc and the ones from breakers weren’t much better than the one I had.
Well I have to say they look cool
There a bugger to work on though 😂
VF750F had cams by Cadburys they used to say.
Well they do need oil
Biggest lemon ever must be the NR750 oval piston. NR being known as the Never Ready
Bloody expensive too. What was the point of that bike ?
My dad was a toolmaker and a good mechanic but he couldn't get a BSA Dandy to run for more than a few miles. He said it was just no good. I've never seen another so I guess he was right.
They do have a really crap reputation
Very good video. Didn't know any motorcycle was a rotary. Thanks.
Thanks. Not many but here are a few. Got me thinking about a video specifically about Rotary bikes 🤔
@@bikerdood1100 that would be excellent. Looking forward to it. From downunder.
Norton had a rotary too, slightly more reliable than the Suzuki. Strange how an engine with so few moving parts ends up heavier than a 4cyl in-liine.
I remember the Vf750 made the expression "chocolate cams" appear
Well yeah
Mostly due to crap oil supply
Suzuki gt380 got the fame for having a swinging arm like it was rubber.
1:40..I had a Honda 550/4 for a while,all in all it was a pretty good bike but I was not impressed with the inboard discs,I took it to the local workshop to have new pads installed front and rear as I didn't know how to do it,the mechanic was a real nice guy and did a great job but when I picked the bike up he admitted he had never seen inboards before so had to go online to get the manual for it.We did have a good laugh about it.Great guy and quite inexpensive.
Yes think those inboard discs a bit too clever. Had a couple of bikes with them. Changing pads was a bit of a chore
@@bikerdood1100 Yeah,I remember him saying it was a bit easier than it looked but I'd rather a professional do it than me stuffing it up.. LOL.
Oh man, I usually buy fixer uppers for my personal bikes to save money, I'm pretty handy, but oh LORD the carbs on those honda v4s are such a damn pain to get out and put in. I've wanted a v65 sabre for so long but can't bring myself to get one because of that fact
They ain’t designed for the home mechanic that’s for sure
Honda VF500 made from 1984 to 1986. A neat bike but suffered oiling issues that ate cams. I had a 1986 model and by this time the oiling issues had been addressed but the market damage had been done. It was a shame because my 500 was a fantastic little bike to ride.
They did but the problem got worse the bigger the engines got
1000s did not get the VFR treatment you motive while the 400 and 750 did
@@bikerdood1100 I spent a good part od my riding life on a 2000 VFR800, one of the best bikes I have ever owned so they did get the V4 issues ironed out in the end. The early models were a real crap shoot. Thanks for your content. I like it.
@@JR-bj3uf well pretty quickly really with the VFR arriving in 86
you need to fact check, cbx550 for a start, the VF750 was not the start of the V4 series and Honda fixed the problem which was due to how they machined the heads for the most part and the later ones were not affected, shame they got it wrong initially as they were good bikes when sorted and no not particularly heavy compared to the opposition of the time and made a good bit more power anyway
I had a good friend who had yeh issues with the the Cbx and the Honda Tech had said that the crank life issues were a thing with them
Like a lot of machines at yeh time the filtration system wasn’t always up tho the job and regular oil changes were a must.
The V4s were lovely things but their chains are pretty rattley even on the smaller bikes. As I often say though it’s all about reputations. Many bikes like the Hondas have issues that get sorted but the damage to the reputation and resulting sales remains.
@@bikerdood1100 very little went wrong with either the V4e 400 or 500, good bikes ion their day and the 500 is now sought after, the CBX550 did have issues though they were sorted in time and the later bikes were capable of big miles, and to add to that the original CX500 was a disaster and major issues, they fixed the problems and it sold by the bucketload so no not always the case and Honda had many own goals before the VFR , the Honda reputation for reliability etc all started with that bike, before it they did not have a particularly good reputation and had many models with issues
They shat cams like hell
Another banger, brother. Keep up the great work. I have a question though. I have noticed you saying "direct overhead cam" a few times. Is that a reference to the engine having an overhead cam or are you intending to say "dual/double overhead cam" and it just comes out wrong? That happens to me a lot and I was just looking for some clarification. Thanks bud!
Blimey that’s and old video
Forget about it to be honest
Apologies for the sound quality
@@bikerdood1100 no worries, bud. I really enjoy your stuff! Keep em coming
Hard to understand Honda at times in particular with the notorious Cam Chain problems on many models, you would have thought they had learnt their lesson, I have had several VFR750s and still have a 95 model, they even messed this fine machine up with the V Tech models and they went from the gear driven cams back to chain.
They definitely have their monuments
Trying too hard perhaps in the case of the Vtec
the old waterbus suzuki used to see a few of them around back in the day
Haven’t seen one on the road for a while
I bought a CBX550. Honda, Power Road, Chiswick, told me all the faults were due to my riding.
It threw a rod and ended up at Skellerns, Worcester, one of Honda UK biggest distributors.
I went to Skellerns to see my bike.
It took a while to find ii.
I found it in the rows of of defunct CBX550s and VF750s hidden from Public gaze. 🤣
Love the way they like to blame the punter
@@bikerdood1100 It wasn't *just* cam chain tensioners and the track-to-road fads of the day, the rear left hand cylinder of the VF had a tendency to seize, unseating the rider, only to unseize as it cooled..
@@simoncaddick9085 well it’s only a short video, if I’d have wanted to go into greater detail I would have to give the Vf series a video of their own.
Video was made some time ago so I can’t remember if I touched on the top end oil supply issues either. You do come across a lot of people who maintain that it’s all made up and bikes are perfect 🙄
I was in awe of the RE5 when it came out, quite recently my mate bought one but didn't rate it one bit, it was soon gone.
The bike sold poorly and Suzuki changed the clocks and rear lights to normal items in the hopes of better sales, it didn't help. My only question is why did they make it so complicated when it could have been so simple??
In a word cooling
@@bikerdood1100 Well, that's odd, as Hercules' 300 was fine with air cooling, and Norton's twin rotor machine was a bit marginal with air cooling, but was successful with water cooling. It was designed for 85-90 bhp, but was developed to around 150 bhp in racing form.
The clocks and the tail lights were probably designed to show the uniqueness and to display a futuristic look. Suzuki were convinced at the time that the rotary engine would be the engine of the future and gambled heavy on it. The weight, cooling problems and complexity of the engine combined with the high fuel usage are what did the bike in.
Generally speaking I think it's fair to say that rotary engines were an answer looking for a non-existing problem and that's why they never really caught on.
The inline 4s were always going to be better.
That's why we still have them to this day.
VF 750 ~ cam chains and tensioners, and oil supply. And case hardening on the cams. And the issue of being one of the first 16" front wheel bikes.
They did have (for the time) a lot of cornering clearance. That meant on a track, in the hands of a racer, they had an advantage. I'm Australian, and they won the Australian Castrol 6 hour. That had a lot to do with fuel-tank size and the time they could spend on circuit, combined with quite a few degrees more cornering clearance. That led to a very distorted, very unrealistic idea of how "fast" the bike was as a day to day roadbike. It wasn't just a case of circuit v road, it depended very heavily which circuit you were talking about. The 6h, was held (until almost the end) at Amaroo, which was a very small, very tight circuit. I suggest looking at the performance of the VF 750 (first model I'm talking about here) at the Isle of Mann. The 2nd gen VF750, the VFR, did stunningly well at the IoM, it was a great motorbike. But the 1st was a bit forgettable. There were a number of things about it that needed fixing. Then, not mentioned, the VFR led to the RC30, which was a massively successful race bike, but it also had some reliability issues. As delivered, oil return from the top end of the motor, was quite adequate for street riding, but not good enough for racing. So all the oil collected in the cam covers, and then the engines blew up. Took a while to figure out what was happening and why, and how one might go about fixing it.
Well the VFR is a completely different animal
I really enjoy this channel. I've got to ride only one Indian and it was a very old one and it was just cool. Great bike? I don't know but a restored beauty that I wish I had a pic of me on it.
The old Sv twins we’re gorgeous
I owned a RE5 many years ago, apart from the high fuel consumption i thought it ran really well and was reliable.
Just did not sell rotary engines never really fulfilled their promise
Had a CBX550F2 for around 6 years. Never had any problems with it. Thought it was a very reliable bike... Inboard brakes were a pain but other than thatvit wasn't bad... Reading some of the comments here, I must've been one of the lucky ones with an anomaly...
Friend had one and most certainly did
All depends on the mileage rather than chronology though
Like "rare" vehicles : nobody wanted them when they were sold, most of them broke down and were too expensive to fix, the plant making them burnt down and the employees were on strike before , manufacturer tried to get rid of them as they were giving them a bad name, main shipment of them stolen by pirates who dumped them in the sea when they found out they were worthless
A true tale of tragedy to be sure
Only a bad reputation is owned forever... ;-) Today, 40 years later, there are still quite a few VF750Fs on the road. I guess that means the updated engine parts worked. When using today's engine oil, e.g. Motul 5100 then there should be no problem, as long as inspection and service is carried out.
It’s strange how some bikes overcome a problematic start and some don’t
I’d still go for a VFR myself however
I recommend a contribution on the Honda XR series of bikes. Greetings.
Really 🤔
Just wish I had a Re5 in my shed ...the bike you call a disaster is worth a pretty penny now ...
Yes but only because no one brought them , hence -
I was expecting to see the Yamaha TX750. A 750 vertical twin? 360 degree crank? Let's give it balancer shafts to smooth out the vibration. All well and good till some genius decided to put them in the sump. Where they whipped up the oil into a froth that was no use at lubricating the engine.
There are so money bikes worthy of entry
And balancer shaft chain had no tensioner adjustment
@@paulbarnes6124 Really? A chain that can't be tensioned? Bad idea.
In 1988 I bought a 1985 VF 750 FE with 3000 miles on the clock.
Came to service it and found camshafts worn out.
£600 pounds later,four new cams and two rockers fitted bike was back on the road again.it had the modified oil supply which obviously didn't work so got rid of it at a loss.
An unfortunately typically story , along with dodgy cam chain tensioner. Because Honda
Sorry but the VF750F was an awesome bike!
Some times, there’s a reason they built the VFR
Sorry had my Honda vf750f since 1984 and it has over 50000 on it and it still runs flawlessly
Good. Unfortunately they didn’t all man that by any means.
Obviously well looked after
You are the first commenter who has had a VF with anything like that mileage
A good indicator is the market place
There are lots of high mileage VFRs out there but very few VFs
Similarly there are an awful lot of Gs750s out there but the Xs is extremely rare now
Why simply because they didn’t survive
A mate and I were riding our bikes in rural Australia, me on a Honda CB450, he on a Ducati Desmo 500 parallel twin, when it spat him down the road at high speed, resulting in a prolonged stay in hospital ! The problem turned out to be the sleeve (?) in the oil galleries between the head and the barrel. It turns out that the sleeve was too long, and the head tightened down on the sleeve, instead of the barrel. At high speed, in the Australian summer, the gasket burnt out at that spot, resulting in the motor seizing, and the ensuing catastrophe ! The Suzuki RE5 was a wonderful machine to ride ! The first model had a strange double ignition system, for acceleration and deceleration. The last model was more standard looking, simpler, and a beautiful bike. Travelled many miles on both models belonging to a mate. Another disaster was the Yamaha TX500 parallel twin. Bike Australia magazine's bike of the yearBy the time they had fixed the problems between barrel and head warping, it's reputation had killed what was another (eventually)good machine. Likewise the Yammie TX 750, which I once owned (Luckily the last and good model ! )
Well those Ducati parallel twins were definitely some of Italys worst.
The cam chain was far to skimpy and would stretch rapidly and occasionally brake.
The Suzuki likely failed because of its weirdness but that been said, like all Wankel engines they are prone to seal wear, they were not helped either by the 70s fuel crises because they do have a drink problem.😂
Yamaha seemed to have a lot of issues with models earlier the XS 750 was similarly blighted by problems early on which badly effected sales.
Makes you wonder if they rushed models out too early. From The comments I have had I get the feeling Yamaha build quality could be quite variable too in the 70s and it something they have made a concerted effort to improve on over the years
I've got the 82 VF 750 Magna ( for those that don't know it's the cruiser version of the 750 Sabre ) and I love it. 18" front and 16" back wheels. It's done about 50,000 klm and still runs great . It's shaft drive which should outlast me.
The cruisers do seem more solid
The cams were still made of cheese .
got an 84 700c low idle time & 3k oil changes pay off.got 22k on it now.cams still like new when checked valve adjustment at nearly 19k.i keep it at 3500 rpm & above for slow riding to keep oil volume to heads.seems to be working fine.no pitting or flaking of cams yet.
I’d love to get my hands on a water buffalo
That’s a kettle in England, well they do boil water
That would be the GT750 (also a heavy and slow bike from a similar time period)
@@impalaSS65 correct still a cool bike for it’s time
16 year old Dan owned a 2stroke triple of that era with a similar chassis ( a 1972 GT380) - handed well, but heavy.
@@danweyant707 I had a 74 GT380 fun bike
Perhaps in a future list you could add the 1973 Yamaha TX-750. What a junker.
Already had them in another video after being suggested by a number of unlucky owners.
I owned 2 VF750s (NOT VF750S) and loved them-the first was stolen but I eventually,several years later tracked down another.Not as sweet as the first, but lovely to chuck around and superb on the brakes. Always lusted after the VFR but a serious accident put paid to that dream,and sports bikes are a thing of the past now. Still love the look and sound of them though, a classic bike especially in the Blue/White/Red that sort of mimicked HRC and Rothmans Racing superbikes colours ridden by Mick Grant et al.
It’s capital S when the heading you choose is capitals only
There’s no doubt the VF had more than its share of top end woes
The 1000 was worse
The VFR was a quantum leap from the early bikes. If a bit heavy
@@bikerdood1100 Eh?? I was referring to TWO VFs, I owned and the NOT the VF750S which was the first model from Honda, a sort of V4 cruiser and not the F sports bike. I am not aware that my use of the capital letter in the model name was incorrect, in fact I'm sure it is quite correct.
@@seavee2000 much family with the F model the Sabre is pretty rare here although I have seen a few. Seen very few F models in recent years particularly when compared to the VFR which seem to have survived in good numbers
What about the Yamaha XS750 3-cylinder. It was infamous for its oil use.
It’s in another video as a matter of fact
I had a 84 750 Honda interceptor they changed it to a 700 in 85 due to a stupid tax law in the US. I loved mine had supertrap exhaust and was a well handling bike. I bought another 20 years later 04 VFR 800.
Always wondered why 700. Real oddball size
Interesting grouping. Norton made the rotory work (sort of) which makes the poor Suzuki seem that much worse. Glad they went recip 4 stroke, though! Some really cool bikes have followed.
Let’s hope TVS continue to develop the Norton mark
The wankel is a 4 stroke engine.
@@wolfnomis8138
For sure but before the Wankel Suzuki only made 2 strokes. After they went recip.
The little Indian looks interesting, to say the least. There was a guy in my area with an RE5 that had classic plates. I love the concept of the rotary engine but the fact that they wear out quickly really put me off. I wish they'd bring back the two stroke, but emissions.....
Well it is possible to build a very low emission stroker, will it happen
Who knows ?
The rotary engine is a 4 stroke engine. It just has all 4 strokes occurring, essentially, concurrently.
Nope
It’s a triangle
That’s three strokes 🙄
Watch one in slow motion. It doesn’t help to think about the engine in piston engine terms
If it ran a four stroke cycle it would need 4 sides 😂😂😂😂😂
Haha, Right. Rock on, man.
Honda came close to bankruptcy in the 80's from warranty claims. They moved seasoned designers to the car arm and left a new generation to design their new models. On the VF's they chose to mill the cam holders rather than line bore. The results were fairly disasterous,,, On the upside, to save the company they came back with the VFR750. I came very close to buying a cbx550 until a mate offered me his GPz550. Thats a bike that deserves its own vid. On a smile per mile per pound they were unbeatable. I sold my Bandit1200 to buy my fourth "Jeep" when I grew tired on living on beans n toast to keep the Bandit in gas n tyres...
Well Honda were very overstretched because of their push towards cars
Oil Sutton the top was insufficient Eaton the bigger capacity bikes
But they have had a bit of a history with top ends which lasted through to the early CBRs
Honda's Achilles heel way back when. They needed regular oil changes to keep them sweet @@bikerdood1100
I want to recommend the yamaha's TX and XS(GX) 750 for the next video.
Good one
There are so many to choose from
The XS was a lovely bike too
At least it was sorted pretty much in the 850
I’ve already finished a second one with a 3rd half done so Xs it shall be
I test rode a used VF750, thought the frame was bent, dood said nah man that's how it rides, seriously
Shouldn’t be that bad even with those tiny wheels
Honourable mentions
The Ariel Square four loved and deadly. The design risked overheating in the engine centre. And many experienced this. But the real killer was the rear suspension geometry that as the bushes wore could rear wheel steer and toss the rider off. This risk increased with enthusiastic riding. Many of today's riders are aware of this and as elderly folk they ride in a more genteel manner to avoid the shrubbery.
My Honda CB400 Super Four with VCT with ABS. Fantastic reliable engine great handling and brakes. A really great bike loved it...
Accept for the seat when touring... it was designed by Satan the most uncomfortable seat on a modern bike I have experienced
Ariel did build a swing arm prototype but didn’t bother to put it into production as the model was on its way out. In a lot of ways the square four doesn’t make any sense as a four stroke engine, breathing and cooling were always a problem.
Don’t know much about the super 4, I don’t believe it was ever an official import here. Sounds a bit crappy though, so perhaps we didn’t miss much
I had an Ariel Square 1000 cc 1955 , all alloy four port model , never never overheated , was not mad fast around 100MPH , handling was OK for a plunger frame . I drove the shit out of it , loved it . However the early iron head models did get hot
The only engine that doubled in size for minimal power increase !
Honda was incapable of making a properly functioning cam chain tensioner in the 80's; all push and no cushioning wore the chains/tensioners out prematurely. Every Honda had the classic camchain death rattle.....
It’s a mystery. How & why
The Honda VF750F could have been a great motorcycle, a fully classic, but that problems with cams condem it forever.
It was a real shame
I remember I was blown away when it came it
honda had a great reputation for building quality bikes but as a former small independent repair shop they had plenty of stinkers in their closet. Seemed to me it became more common from 1979 on. I blame it on computerized design and lack of testing. Lets face it the consumer has pretty much become these company's R&D.
Well you do have to wonder if they did the test miles on those V4s. They should have been great bikes. Dumb really because it must have cost them a fortune to develop something so different
I knew the RE-5 would be in there:)
Well it’s a must
i had the vf1000f when they were new . besides the tires and rims being off set and hard to find replacements the darn thing kept eating the cams .. it finally threw the 1/4 chain and i junked it with only 908 miles on it . honda never got my bussiness ever again.......
It wasn’t their finest hour to be sure
What about the TX750 and 500??
Been a few mentions of that machine. Would definitely feature if I made another
Honda has a long history of rushing unproven crap onto the market and having problems.
Well it does happen from time to time
Definitely not just Honda
Yamaha XS 500 & 750 Twins and XS750 triple spring to mind
History is littered with the same mistakes from many companies
@@bikerdood1100 Honda did it the most
you will keep the update of problems comming.....this will keep them running on roads!
There is and almost endless supply of problem bikes
God , I really luv the VF750
The styling was a bit mad but somehow cool at the same time, but the VFR750 was much nicer, a generation ahead
@@bikerdood1100 my dad got one in 86 when it was new. Its easy for me to ride it coz of its narrow body compare to a GS1000E
Another Disaster, if you are interested, is the German Megola from the 30's. I mean how can someone build a Motobike without Clutch?
Plus I think it's ugly too!
I’ve mentioned that bike in another video somewhere
But you just think Why ?
@@bikerdood1100 I think it's a Disaster because at Stop's or Crossings you have to turn off the bike and restart it.
@@perseusaut true the whole thing is idiotic
Did you know Ducati also made a 125 2stroke single at about the same time as the twins?
Ooo , lot of 2 strokes coming out of Italy during the 70s, a lot of them were pretty dodgy too
I can't even look at an RE5. They were just so wrong and yet were riding high on the Wankel promise of the future.
Well deliver the future it most certainly did not
I had a V65 Sabre, V4, 1100cc. The motor never failed but what an awful bike, so heavy.
Earlier V4s are Chunky
@@bikerdood1100 Cheers!
"It's a shame not many V4s are made any more" Hmm, maybe you should talk to all those companies that used to make V Twins, especially Ducati and Aprilia. There is literally only one manufacturer that makes V twins for sports bikes; KTM
Plenty of V4s
Well they’re a bit out of my price range
Miss the old aprillia twins though
Really nice
@@bikerdood1100 TBF, The Big H was the only manufacturer that made V4s at the time, and the gear-driven versions were virtually forced on the company because nobody would trust the chain driven ones any more. That's hardly surprising as the costs involved in shoring up their market had pushed the company close to the brink of bankruptcy.
I'm really glad to see the back of the inline fours. Once the sport bike market started to weaken, the writing was on the wall for I$s/UJMs. I found that they demanded such commitment that they were ultimately unsatisfying. I much prefer a big triple or a big twin, and a big V twin really is a very satisfying configuration to ride, whether you ride fast or slow.
Don’t forget Yamaha’s XVZ 1200. Also a V4 engine there.
@@kasperkjrsgaard1447 XVZ can hardly be classified as a sports bike. The V-Max also had a V4, as did the Pan European, but none of them would classify as sporting.
the VF500 silky smooth
They were. I had the 400 it was great if a bit rattley
Its a funny thing how many bikes with clear issues are nevertheless highly sought after. Harleys could and would leak oil furiously in the 1970s but if you wanted the bike with a killer attitude then it was Harley or nothing and Triumph was dumped along with everything else. My Sukuki GT 750 isnt logical. Its extremely sophisticated moderately lethal an ecological disaster and highly highly sought after.😮
Well a motorcycle isn’t about logic after all
As for pollution and old bike isn’t as bad as most think
Buy a new electric car every 3 years however that’s another story
And then there was the Honda Dream......aaaah.
And super dream with its fast rusting tank