I'd love to weigh in on the 'alt right goodnight' controversy. I personally like the song, it bangs, however to paint a side of the political spectrum with the same wide brush as the *extreme* side of that same spectrum is what makes people angry. labelling anyone who doesn't agree with your political views a "nazi" is where translation gets lost for the real message of the song. the alt right aren't all nazi's and racists, just like the left aren't all SJW's. people suck on either side but you cannot place them all in the same category as the ones who do the right thing. (I am neither left or right to clarify)
the song isn't about that though, and that's why they (and myself) get so frustrated. The song is an indictment of neo-nazis prevalent in the media at a time of immense political separation and disillusion. The video obviously mediates the red hat with 'Trump supporters' but this isn't explicitly stated, and what that individual is doing in the video is worshipping Nazi memorabilia. There is no actual conflation between general conservatism and 'the right' with Fascism, yet for some reason, everyone takes that as an attack on moderate right-wingers
@@owlrose9802 and i'm all for that message bro but I'm just saying that as someone not left nor right, I can see why people did get a little pissed at the time. again banger of a song, banger of a band. I think now more than when it was released people realise they aren't just generalising a whole side of the political spectrum.
@@owlrose9802 That's totally disingenuous. Before that came out I was a huge SFTP fan. Probably from about MYOH or thereabouts. I'm not right wing. Wouldn't ever dream of association with the aisle, let alone the extreme side. Richard Spencer was punched in the face. That then sparked what we'll call the "pseudo-moral enforcement squad" i.e Antifa; specifically picking and choosing who they deemed "Nazis" - often with no evidence. What's the biggest difference between Richard Spencer & the average Trump voter? ~ One is knowingly malicious, the other is ignorant & misguided. There are still videos from that particular time where in which people were being accused of being Nazis by virtue of a MAGA hat or something else completely asinine. People then took it upon themselves to assault them. Do you really think en masse they would have supported him if they genuinely thought that? No. And while there is absolutely some evidence supporting a move towards totalitarianism a la Covid; appointing yourself judge, jury and executioner against someone that doesn't understand why we are so angry with them & then assaulting them is disgusting. We are better than that. We are supposed to be the compassionate side of the aisle when possible & it was absolutely possible to do that. The fucking entitlement of thinking because you have an opposing political belief that you have the power to harm them physically is vile. We are better than they are & this song, whether by intent or not - was enabling idiots to think it was okay to conflate a Republican with a Nazi. It's so horribly disingenuous and reductive to say what you have. Punch Nazis all day long, most of the world agrees - but if they're just your political opponent, you're a fucking coward.
@@lukeoneill2426 Again, the conflation here is not with the average supporter. The video quite clearly presents the individual as a domestic right-wing terrorist, and the red hat is designed to perpetuate the notion that right-wing extremism is by far the leading terroristic threat in Western Civilisation. It is not reductive to say that. It is reductive to draw the conclusion that the band are advocating beating up average Trump supporters by the fact a character is wearing a hat. That's literally it, that is the cru of the comparison. You can believe that 'antifa' going around beating up MAGA supporters is vile, which it totally is and would be, but the crux of the argument that is presented in this music video is not that and it is (as you say) insincere and disingenuine to draw that conclusion. When we look at the 'lone wolf terror threats' that have come out of COVID, such as the reports of domestic terrorists driving vans into protestors, this video is even more relevant as a statement on the correlation between rising populist right-wing politics and domestic terror threats. The argument that leftists go around beating up Trump supporters and conservatives unwarranted is a strawman; yes, it has happened. Yes, it is reprehensible and disgusting. However, this video doesn't compound that issue, and whilst you might say that the violence in it may be misinterpreted it is still a misinterpretation.
@@owlrose9802 Let's simplify this so we can actually get some constructive dialogue. I'm saying that the message & video are implicitly suggesting, if not just enabling the demonization of the political opposition, so to treat them as such - not human. That is a Totalitarian strategy, historically. That does not come from any justifiable place. If you are looking to ostracize people simply because they're misinformed and suffering in serious ways themselves, then you have no compassion & you are not my ally. They are not Nazis. They are mostly, poor Americans getting shit on by the same people shitting on everyone else. To deny the at least, obvious implicit message that it blatantly sends out is honestly wild. I particularly don't like how they diluted what being a Nazi means & just how evil they really are. Middle-America Brian doesn't want a fascist dictatorship, ethnic cleansing or, as it's America - more government intervention. It's not just lazy, it's wrong. That is me steelmanning my stance. Also, that's not what a strawman means. I never said that you, nor anyone else was making that argument. I was asserting it as a fact. Maybe next time Google the fallacy call-out prior to you calling someone out on one?
Why does Bryan look like @friendlyjordies in the thumbnail?
I'd love to weigh in on the 'alt right goodnight' controversy. I personally like the song, it bangs, however to paint a side of the political spectrum with the same wide brush as the *extreme* side of that same spectrum is what makes people angry. labelling anyone who doesn't agree with your political views a "nazi" is where translation gets lost for the real message of the song. the alt right aren't all nazi's and racists, just like the left aren't all SJW's. people suck on either side but you cannot place them all in the same category as the ones who do the right thing. (I am neither left or right to clarify)
the song isn't about that though, and that's why they (and myself) get so frustrated. The song is an indictment of neo-nazis prevalent in the media at a time of immense political separation and disillusion. The video obviously mediates the red hat with 'Trump supporters' but this isn't explicitly stated, and what that individual is doing in the video is worshipping Nazi memorabilia. There is no actual conflation between general conservatism and 'the right' with Fascism, yet for some reason, everyone takes that as an attack on moderate right-wingers
@@owlrose9802 and i'm all for that message bro but I'm just saying that as someone not left nor right, I can see why people did get a little pissed at the time. again banger of a song, banger of a band. I think now more than when it was released people realise they aren't just generalising a whole side of the political spectrum.
@@owlrose9802 That's totally disingenuous.
Before that came out I was a huge SFTP fan. Probably from about MYOH or thereabouts. I'm not right wing. Wouldn't ever dream of association with the aisle, let alone the extreme side.
Richard Spencer was punched in the face. That then sparked what we'll call the "pseudo-moral enforcement squad" i.e Antifa; specifically picking and choosing who they deemed "Nazis" - often with no evidence.
What's the biggest difference between Richard Spencer & the average Trump voter?
~
One is knowingly malicious, the other is ignorant & misguided.
There are still videos from that particular time where in which people were being accused of being Nazis by virtue of a MAGA hat or something else completely asinine. People then took it upon themselves to assault them.
Do you really think en masse they would have supported him if they genuinely thought that? No. And while there is absolutely some evidence supporting a move towards totalitarianism a la Covid; appointing yourself judge, jury and executioner against someone that doesn't understand why we are so angry with them & then assaulting them is disgusting.
We are better than that. We are supposed to be the compassionate side of the aisle when possible & it was absolutely possible to do that. The fucking entitlement of thinking because you have an opposing political belief that you have the power to harm them physically is vile.
We are better than they are & this song, whether by intent or not - was enabling idiots to think it was okay to conflate a Republican with a Nazi.
It's so horribly disingenuous and reductive to say what you have.
Punch Nazis all day long, most of the world agrees - but if they're just your political opponent, you're a fucking coward.
@@lukeoneill2426 Again, the conflation here is not with the average supporter. The video quite clearly presents the individual as a domestic right-wing terrorist, and the red hat is designed to perpetuate the notion that right-wing extremism is by far the leading terroristic threat in Western Civilisation.
It is not reductive to say that. It is reductive to draw the conclusion that the band are advocating beating up average Trump supporters by the fact a character is wearing a hat. That's literally it, that is the cru of the comparison. You can believe that 'antifa' going around beating up MAGA supporters is vile, which it totally is and would be, but the crux of the argument that is presented in this music video is not that and it is (as you say) insincere and disingenuine to draw that conclusion. When we look at the 'lone wolf terror threats' that have come out of COVID, such as the reports of domestic terrorists driving vans into protestors, this video is even more relevant as a statement on the correlation between rising populist right-wing politics and domestic terror threats.
The argument that leftists go around beating up Trump supporters and conservatives unwarranted is a strawman; yes, it has happened. Yes, it is reprehensible and disgusting. However, this video doesn't compound that issue, and whilst you might say that the violence in it may be misinterpreted it is still a misinterpretation.
@@owlrose9802
Let's simplify this so we can actually get some constructive dialogue.
I'm saying that the message & video are implicitly suggesting, if not just enabling the demonization of the political opposition, so to treat them as such - not human.
That is a Totalitarian strategy, historically. That does not come from any justifiable place. If you are looking to ostracize people simply because they're misinformed and suffering in serious ways themselves, then you have no compassion & you are not my ally.
They are not Nazis. They are mostly, poor Americans getting shit on by the same people shitting on everyone else.
To deny the at least, obvious implicit message that it blatantly sends out is honestly wild.
I particularly don't like how they diluted what being a Nazi means & just how evil they really are. Middle-America Brian doesn't want a fascist dictatorship, ethnic cleansing or, as it's America - more government intervention. It's not just lazy, it's wrong.
That is me steelmanning my stance.
Also, that's not what a strawman means. I never said that you, nor anyone else was making that argument. I was asserting it as a fact. Maybe next time Google the fallacy call-out prior to you calling someone out on one?