The whole “alone together” aspect of MMOs is one of their biggest draws. It’s why I play. I enjoy knowing I’m playing a game with other people, but I’m not a fan of hopping in discords and stuff.
Like in the past the thoughts of you can play with thousands of different people from around the world connect with someone like you is definitely something mesmerizing But in the current time with modernization globalization that connectivity has become something normal and it definitely loses the special draw factor
same. I love playing a game with a world that feels alive, with actual players and not just NPCs. I think for most people nowadays, MMOs just have to have stuff you can do solo, not raids, those should always be group content, but there has to be stuff like solo challenges, doing reputations and stuff like that that everyone can do without a group, because everyone just has that time where they want to relax and not deal with other humans.
This's why I Play Runescape 3, as a solo player. In the game itself, you've everything easier for you to change the server world. Learning you the economy, raids, massive quest, and good rewards. Plus you can meet your friends without any problem.
Yeah, I love it when I can get most things alone in an MMO, but still show it off in cities and open world areas, and in PvP. I love it when multiplayer content is more of a vanity thing, like you get a unique title, mount, cosmetic, or house decoration from raids and dungeons.
@@Bollibompa Is it less pathetic to get the title/achievement in a single player game so you can stare at it alone? If you are in a non-team sport, they don't give you the trophy or medal on the sly. Even if it's a cosmetic that you personally like, it's still fun to show to other people. You get and dress up in clothes that YOU like, but it's still nice if other people appreciate it to.
Commenting for the mom story, much love. When I was younger, my uncle who had gotten me into the game, would let me fly around on his epic flyer because he too was rich as all hell from farming and just gaming too hard always! Anyways, he would always run me through anything I ever wanted until I had gotten all the gear I could possibly hold, but he would never give me gold. Told me to earn it the hard way. Made flying that much better and I always have fond memories of him almost every time I mount up on a flyer, anywhere. Cheers guys 👌
16:20 This statement right here is so fucking true it’s unbelievable. This is why most of my comments around wow are negative. There is so much wasted potential, but because they are scared of breaking things, they leave it as is. As long as people are paying monthly, no changes needed. It’s when people leave in masses that they start adding the things we’ve complained about, but in small fragments
What could have been. Mmorpg is a "dead" genre except the Eastern ones w/ p2w aspects. Nothing wrong with that tbh. I actively play Genshin. Tried FF but just not my thing.
Blizz changed A LOT of things between vanilla, TBC, Wrath and Cata, quite a few of those changes being rather terrible. So I wouldn't say Blizz have historically been too afraid of changing things, rather the opposite. Almost nothing remains between expansions, everything changes. I can't say that 100% for retail since I haven't played it in a long time, but I feel it's definitely true for vanilla-Cata.
This is exactly how retail corporations work today too. As long as the money flows, there is actually 0 chance of change or improvement. Capitalism is ruining mmo development
Asmon will forever be enshrined in our hearts as a wow communtiy friend and family member. I've watched him for years, and dont even know him. But in my heart I believe I do know him. Thanks for all the hard work. Many of us look forward to coming home and escaping reality with you. So we appreciate your time and years spent playing. And years making content.
Tbh as a 28y man i just miss the old times and the nostalgia of logging into an mmo and play for 1 day from morning untill the next morning with your guild and friends and just have fun . Now i feel like im always playing by myself and i get bored or tired of an mmo fast . Sadge Mmos are a different breed now .
The new generation of gamers have changed as well. Like just look at the PS2/PS3 era of gaming to now. The layers in game purchases or pay to win mechanics
100% this, as a paramedic i learned more in my 1st day than i did in 6 months of school, as actual experience is so important to getting outside your safe zone and making actual improvements.
You know what, it's sad and sweet that I know why Asmon can't stop playing and loving / hate wow. It's because all the memories he have with the game and his mom.
yeah addiction is a powerful thing that ruins people lives but in his case it' applauded because he's some never-do-ill streamer. people are too fucking dumb it's astonishing.
That's the thing, I'm a solo player but the reason I love MMOs so much is because of the bustling, lively world around me. I love feeling like a very small and insignificant part of something much bigger. With FFXIV, I love going into a city and seeing bards playing random songs, and enjoying that whole atmosphere as I'm going about turning in quests and such. I'm not a good player, so the trust system appeals to me for this reason, I get so embarrassed basically whenever I do have to play with other players and they rely on me to fulfill my role because I know I suck at it. I hate that tbh. Just give me a bustling world filled with other players I can interact and play with *if* I ever so choose, but let me also be the antisocial solo player gremlin that I actually am at the same time. That would be the best MMO for me, imo. FFXIV is so close to being just that for me.
The cool thing about WoW back in the day was you could play solo where you didnt have to be on teamspeak/ventrilo but you could meet someone in world who was trying to do the same thing you do, team up and do a few quests then be on your way. It was good stuff back in the day. It’s no longer the early 2000s tho and solo WoW is pretty easy these days.
I think thats what made wow so incredible tho. Each realm has it own identity. On one realm your max lvl and know every guild on it. In the next one your a low lvl with no friends. When they added cross realm, it felt like they ripped apart our community and tried to force it with multiple others.
I am playing SWTOR solely for the singleplayer content. And the devs really get it and basically transformed the game from an mmo into kotor 3. Is purfect.
@@silco5343 big mistake was one of the most unique ones with kotor story elements and choices of not one of the best solo mmos I put it behind final fantasy
His teacher point is so perfect, because if you could learn everything you needed to learn from info alone, there wouldn't be teachers at all. Which is why teachers who give lots of homework are ass. They're passing the buck, they're not doing their job.
I prefer being single player. Guilds always cause drama. There are so many butt hurt toxic kids in games these days lol. Also guilds expect you to do stuff with them all the time, but if you're in a bad guild chances are it will judt hold you back. I understand their are perks to being in a guild, but i play games to get away from people and enjoy my free time to myself. I love mmos for the "we are all hear doing the same stuff at our own pace" aspect. Its great to be in a world full of people but doesn't mean you have to interact with them lol.
Despite the meme that Destiny 2 has become, it actually has solved many of the problems Asmon and Josh have described. D2 is playable on Xbox, PS, PC, and Stadia and Crossplay is enabled for all of them so everyone can play together without server region restrictions. D2 has a single player experience all the way to endgame level, the only things requiring pre made groups are the Raids. PVP gear is capped while it is uncapped in PVE. PVP power is tuned separately from PVE (weapon damage, ability cooldowns, aim assist, etc.). Free to play model and paid model still lets everyone play together. Make fun of it all you want, Bungie thought of these things years ago. Took time, but its because they had to operate and patch a live game while they did it.
true. its the evolution mmo should turn to. tho its a hassle for the devs to pump constant content and balancing issues (pvp). lots of destiny clone failed miserably.
A large part of the reason there are individual servers/realms is that clustering and various other technologies were not nearly as developed in 2000-2010 when a lot of the big MMO names were developed. Further, the skills needed to code a game and to run infrastructure usually don't go together in IT, doubly so back then before containers & devops. I would cut older games some slack for not having a global realm/economy back in the day. Now if they are still operating that way in 2022... that's a different story.
18:55 I thought a way they might be able to make it more fair would be to include something like revenge from For Honor. If the game is registering hits from more than one player against a single target, that player starts gaining stacks of a buff that puts them on a level where they can compete with these players who are attacking them. Obviously there's a lot of calculation that would have to go into this, but some factors to include might be players within the area of attack, differentiating between single-target vs. AoE damage, and iLvl differences.
I’ve played runescape for 15 years on and off, I started playing the oldschool version in 2017 and people say I like it because of nostalgia, but after having put 5000 hours on my ultimate ironman I’d say the reason I stay is because of the community and developers and the democracy of updates and the simplicity with complexity depending on what YOU choose to do. I love High tier PVM, I have done non high tier pvm yet because my account isnt progressed enough, but having that goal of one day reaching endgame bosses and raids just make me want to continue grinding out the skills and grinds for now because I will benefit from doing the grinding now rather than later.
I can honestly say the same about your mom man, my dad actually did the same thing with Runescape back in 05. But he basically played WoW as a single player game, he wasn't bad, he just didn't enjoy raiding for whatever reason. He never really did pvp either, however when isle of co quest first came out, he literally grinded out the meta for it. It was so unusual for him, but I'm assuming he enjoyed that one. He basically looked at the achievement list as a quest log. And ended up quitting with about 19.2k achs, at the end of cata.
Same. I'm also terribly insecure and shy. I admire people who can do what they want to do, but it's really hard for me to get started or deal with roadblocks.
@@glanni Yeah, roadblocks are a big issue for me. I don't like to settle or say _"that's not great, but it'll do"_ Do you ever manage to battle through it?
@@peterbabicki8252 would it be possible to get yourself into a "perfect when possible" mindset? as in if you're making a game you do the basic stuff, make it playable and then add the perfecting part? might be a step in the right direction to getting stuff done
@@mithshude It's something I'm working on. I can finish small art projects or very small novels _(me and a friend share short stories)_ but anything substantial and I find it incredibly hard to stay motivated if things aren't _"perfect"_
@@peterbabicki8252 at my work we often use the phrase “perfection is the enemy of good”. It’s like taking a vacation. Would you rather have a good vacation that you enjoy or a perfect vacation that never happens?
Games like Lost Ark are the biggest examples of a single player MMO. Small guild size, small group size, 8 man raid size. The game even kicks you out of your channel while you're in a group if it's full, doesn't even prompt you find a new channel to stay in the group. Joined a guild desperately trying to string together a solid group of people to eventually tackle the endgame content, but it was like pulling teeth trying to get people to form a community and I don't think it's the players fault. Games like this say they're MMO's but have systems that make it more efficient to do most content solo, and make it easy to just pug everything - even the endgame. Although Classic WoW had problems, one of it's biggest strengths was community.
11:44 It's not as simple as just pressing a button but it's something that has bin done before in multiple games, it's not like combining servers or markets is a colossal, unfathomable task.
As a teen during my exams I was always a perfectionist, I spent up to hours on one question crafting it as good as I possibly could however it's very true that I never got anything done in the scope of the full exam, It took me years to get out of this habit and it was unnatural to me. Sometimes even the crafted answers that took way to long to do where incorrect and that's when I realised it's better to just rush through the exam doing what I know first then elaborating afterwards. So I agree fully with Josh here
idk why its so hard to understand that some people like fighting with a disadvantage. Thats what makes it fun and challenging, its not supposed to be fair. But sometimes it is fair, my favorite part of open world pvp is just the randomness of it all. Maybe you fight 1 person, maybe 3, maybe 10 bad players, maybe 2 good players. Its amazing, and i think people dont give it a chance. I think a big problem with it is incentive. Why flag for pvp, in games with flagging systems, when you are going to do something? You have an objective, and flagging is just going to waste time and prolong what you set out into the world to do. For example, if you went to go farm something in a game, why flag? Maybe you get killed and have to go all the way back. But if that item your farming will drop 3 instead of 1 item, then maybe you do flag. Also, if a game dev said, this zone is pvp at 6pm tonight, you get X rewards for doing things here, people would join. Kind of like archeage and zones going in and out of war. Something like that is great because you know when its coming and you can choose to do what you need to do in that area before the pvp starts, if you dont want to pvp, or join if you do. On the other hand, things can be done like eso does. Just one large zone with open world pvp with multiple goals involved. I just think that there are waaayyyy more people who enjoy, or could enjoy, open world pvp than people think. Yes more people will always rather fight npcs than real people but i think thats just more people not wanting a challenge because they play more casually, and thats fine. But i dont think the divide is that wide. Like in eso, people join in pvp during events because the rewards are good. And most of the people i talk to say its fun. But on the other hand, open world full loot pvp games are definitely more niche. Eso has a pretty good balance of BG pvp, open world pvp in cyrodil, and risk vs reward pvp in the imperial city where you can lose currency that you earn while in there if you die.
Honestly this is why I loved pre cu SWG. Everything had some sort of player interaction, but it wasn’t forced on. You could do endgame content solo if you wanted or with a group.
Pre-CU was the shit. Had a friend who built a bounty hunter so fucking wild that made people so mad. Ranger/Marksmen/BH dude could camo and sneak up right near you and if you wern't paying attention to the map.. well gg. He used to also look like an average artisan a lot, so jedi wouldn't get spooked, they'd just see a guy going out surveying and shit, and then go away, and then they're dead. XD so much CSR messages. "we're told you're harrassing players." "i'm a bounty hunter, and that was a jedi. nice 450k creds tho tell them thanks"
I mostly played single player. The only reason myself and others formed a guild was to talk shit while we went about our business, or it was a much cheaper alternative to the auction house. We'd help each other out. Never raided, never really went near many dungeons either. But still had a ton of fun. I'd dip into BGs from time to time but that was about the total extent of my multiplayer play.
Some of my best experiences in WoW were related to my worst experiences. I played as alliance on a server that slowly became horde dominated. I got used to being ganked. Much later, AQ geared I was waiting in front of Dire Maul to help some friends. There they came again. They were undergeared. Pressing recklessness and a few seconds later they were on the ground. After the remaining two came out of the dungeon. They joined their friends on the ground. I will never forget that glorious moment. Maybe some bad experiences aren't that bad at all?
The interconnectivity gimmick doesn’t work because what we’ve learned, after getting to see and relate to everyone in the world through multiplayer and social media, is that we all don’t really like each other! And… that’s okay too.
That mom story honestly reminds me of the days of when my family was still together, me and my ma would play the everloving shit out of Pirates of the Caribbean Online together(I was like, 8 or 9), we even ran a guild with a bunch of friends, I remember spending a long time trying to beat that damn Black Pearl raid with her, we were sad when POTCO shut down Nowadays she mostly prefers Candy Crush, but we still talk about game stuff sometimes. It's cool to hear other people's gamer mom stories
I love when people reminisce about the good memories of their families even though you can’t understand why that moment is so fondly spoken of. Just shows how amazing people are.
Even with all of OSRS’ different servers/worlds, we still have communities on specific worlds. Even though you can do anything on any world, we have worlds dedicated to certain minigames, worlds dedicated to pvp or high risk pvp, worlds dedicated to house parties, trading, etc. And that wasn’t even done by Jagex at first, that was all developed by the players and then Jagex adopted it officially by labeling the specific worlds in the game itself.
About the server economies... It's not complex. ONE AUCTION HOUSE for every one no matter the servers or factions (except maybe PvP) everywhere ---- FIXED ! So you can log on FarStriders, jump on Westfall to help a friend raid with his guild. then jump back on a small server because you just want to play alone for a while. Same AH, same prices. Thy only need an AH for RP/PVP servers and another for RP/PvE, for each version (Classic/TBC/Retail). This should be standard on all MMOs. No more dead economy servers is music to my ears.
tbh a lot of mmos have been released last year and this year and most of them died after 3-4 months. the genre has no hope anymore. i wish they just make more co-op rpg games with a good story that you can play with a friend.
The issue with releasing unfinished games and then "fixing" them later on is that they never do enough work, the games always get abandoned before they can reach true potential. Not to mention the endless cut features. 25:20 galaxy brain
My girlfriend plays MMOs like Asmon's mom did. Like right now she's playing Lost Ark entirely F2P, but she has just farmed a starting gold amount of few thousand with professions and weeklies. Then she started flipping collection drops on the market, and has made like a million gold or more. She invests it into limited edition skin chests that will hold value, or even rise in value. Like she is T1 geared 400 hours in, but owns skins worth thousands of dollars.
One of the new mantras in coding is "fail often, but fail small". And its about doing more things in smaller chunks rapidly, but anything you fail at, can be fixed next time in a small chunk.
Thats why gw2 is still surviving...playing easily together at least in the general continent and having a big marketplace, is what they decided early on after release, that they should do this.
there is 1 way to make world pvp fair, and that is pvp zones. kinda like the elite quest zones in classic, you don't have to go there but doing so can get you better rewards. for people that played the division, think of the standard map and dark zones (with the addition that it's actively mmo and not solo/co op)
The division was a perfect example of a game that was not ready to be release but the developer never gave up and they kept working on it and need up being really fun.
I like how everything wrong with MMO's today is still everything RuneScape is doing right. It's not perfect by any means but at least RuneScape isn't outright blocking you from playing the game with your friends. Just hop to my world, teleport straight to any area basically. This whole thing about creating multiple accounts/classes is horrible for people who are older now as well who may not have the time to shell out more than 2 hours+ a day on a game. RuneScape allows you to do everything in game on one character, not forcing you to play a class just to get into some higher tier raiding content or whatever *cough* Lost Ark... (a game i'm currently enjoying as a ftp player w/2 accounts in T3 so far...). Also, the economy used to be a universal player made concept of W2 (server) Falador (city) Park (location of trading) just as 1 example, but now it's been upgraded to the grand exchange which is available to anyone on any server and it's trading items across every single server not just specific to a single world (server). I can certainly keep going but I'm afraid i've been labeled as a RuneScape Andy at this point from people who haven't given the game a shot enough to recognize what a real "player's experience mmo" actually is.
Osrs is the only mmo I didn't grow up with, I started to play it in 2016. I cannot go back to WoW, ffxiv or GW2 but I regularly go back to osrs because of all the stuff to do in that game. The biggest flaw of osrs is controls, combat and visuals.
Literally. Like anything anyone has an issue with about the nature of mmo's it's like "oh yeah osrs does this whole different thing so it doesn't have that problem at all" The game is practically perfect tbh. The only actual downside is it starts slow and more seriously like the levels between 80-120 can feel extremely slow so most people never touch the absolute best parts of the game like all the new raids and even some older bosses. If less people cared about graphics I think it would have been the biggest mmo since release.
@@darthcuckold1486 BIggest flaw but biggest advantage. As people have figured out the tick system, playing OSRS endgame and using pray flicking and gear switching, as well as the latest boss mechanics, make osrs combat really fun. And if that's still too easy? PVP has a high skill ceiling, just need to learn about the tick system, eating and combos to do well.
@@Alex9ten well yeah, 99 was the max skill level and most people didn't just get them. People would grind for ages to get a single 99. I played for years without a single one. 99 is 13m xp and 120 is 104m xp. Honestly, the only reason they upped it is because they realised they need to keep vets playing who have achieved 99 in all skills and quit. Bringing them to 120 almost 10x'd the amount of experience to max. It's good and bad. OSRS is more fun as a single player rpg game which focuses on being medieval with fantasy, you then participate in group elements the further you get into progression. Magic exists but nothing is too flashy or tries to take itself seriously. Rs3 is an amazing solo experience but due to years and years of graphical updates, is overly flashy and looks high fantasy (which I dislike so much). Rs3 has a more fun endgame experience but so many things have been made almost useless, like how they added teleport nodes to places you can teleport for free instead of requiring people to teleport with runes, tablets, teleport unlocks or teleport item unlocks. Rs3 has crapped on a lot of it's earlier game progression and while it's a fun game, it's not the same game it used to be. And while OSRS is fun, some things like Runecrafting are so abnormally boring, but the economy around runes and what people use them for, really makes the world feel more alive rather than, a place you visit, it's a place you live.
@Mark Sheymus I think you misunderstood me lol. I am a RuneScape vet of 15+ years with over 9k hours played. I still to this day play roughly 8+ hours. I'm currently playing Lost Ark and that game alone requires a stupid amount of time just to stay relevant with the games updates. So no man, i'm not a 2 hour andy, i'm more of the "successful career man with no kids with a lot of time to waste guy". I'm advocating for those who want to play mmo's but newer games don't respect people's time and force them to do daily tasks in order to progress instead of gear them towards doing fun activities that still progress your character instead of mundane job like tasks which are quite boring honestly *cough* infinite chaos dungeons.
To this day the best single player experience i've had was in SWTOR. Playing with friends is super easy because of the level shifting so you can play with your lvl 80 friend as a level 10 with no downside at all and you get rewards based on your level and so do they so no one loses anything by playing with a higher/lower level player. SWTOR is very underrated MMO, it has systems that are miles ahead of many of the modern MMOs.
my mom was a sngle player kinda person as well growing up she always had materials and gold in her gnomes guild bank and me and my sister would try and bribe her by doing dishes to give us gold for dual spec or training
GW2 flat-out deleted my account and refused to listen to me begging for help to restore it. I'd been hacked; they couldn't care less. Accused me of cheating and wouldn't even listen to me. I lost an account with hundreds of dollars of cash shop items and two legendary weapons. I'd never so much as used a swear word in game chat, nothing. I don't know of any other game with such dreadful customer service.
In the FFXIV datacenter travel system they are sadly still restricting it so you can only play on servers in your own regions because Japanese players complained that they don't want non JP people on their servers
EVE online had fair world pvp provided both parties understood the games' systems because if you did combat was entirely consensual. The hard part was getting the other guy to accept a fight that you'd beat him in.
FFXIV kinda proved that server economies can be preserved while allowing more freedom of movement by players. There are still restrictions in place and I couldn't say whether those limitations have any effect on the economy, but a player-driven economy has ways of working itself out (barring heavy botting and currency selling).
What a MMO RPG needs a good story, immersion, Character Lore because most characters have a big influence on people for example sigmar from warhammer ect it just makes it nice to be in a fully immersed world. All they need to add is a Server with no bugs combat that’s skill based and simple not crazy skills popping off causing fire works ect a good game combat example is weapons that come with thier own combat styles without the crazy fx and AOEs and magic combat that isn’t lock on but skill required it’ll give it a slower approach to combat like survivals where dodging is essential and those who rush in are punished.
as someone who has gotten into game development recently and playing around in ue5 right now, i considered developing an mmo, for about 10 seconds. now i'm thinking of a single player fps/tps since that is probably some of the easier ones to make. ue5 makes it a lot easier and 1 person could potentially make a decent linear game in not too much time, but making an mmo alone... not gonna happen unless it's a 100% dungeon crawler like vindictus, and even then it would probably double production time at the very least
Josh Strife nails it. Perfectionism doesn't effectively get a product out perfect or near it. It might sometimes with the right vision and team on board. But as he says, you've got to know what noise needs to be heard and also what doesn't. Put out the bigger fires before the smaller ones and keep the fire hose handy when wildfire ensues!
Loved the perfection vs done, it was the wise words I needed. I'm one of those who like to over prepare in certain things cause I'm afraid of failing or losing, trying to gather as many tips, advice, guides and studying something before doing it. This can be from PvP to raiding, painting and other kinds of hobbies, even making calls or starting to exercise. Not always, or it'd hindered me way more, but there's been a lot of things I've had to drop the perfectionist mindset just to get something done. Still, there's been a few things that's been sitting there, waiting for me to be done with my perfectionist preparation, and hearing Josh's words I feel more confident that I should just get things done, stop preparing and start learning while at it, and accept the fact anyone will fail, especially new, but failure breeds experience.
It’s sad that couch co-op is basically a novelty too. Those were some of my favorite games to play with my little sister. Everything from the multiplayer on Conkers BFD (original, not the halo knockoff bullshit) to resident evil 5, and so on. We would enjoy all of them, but even shit games back then could honestly be made fun. Now you can’t play anything with anyone unless they’re over a connection and you can’t play half of the games anyways if you’re trying to avoid games that are trying to make this abusive monetization commonplace and accepted. It’s just heartbreaking at this point dude.
The flip side, is if you stack everything in your favor. Say you get all the mics and emotes and the gaming chair, and then you start. And you fail WITH all the variables stacked in your favor. You find out very quick if a problem is you, or your equipment. And sure it's an expensive way to learn you suck at something, but it can, for some people, also be a good way to remove all the classic excuses and get them to realize THEY are the problem.
great stories Zach and good memories i have with my wife and boys when she was alive so ty man take care. We only played as a family guilds were so toxic and bad on the horde side.
I loved Path of Exile for this. I played that entirely solo and never felt punished for it. And when I had some friends I wanted to play with, we just played, I didn't have to think, we didn't have to transfer regions, we just played.
This is the reason I don't play Riot games like League and Valorant. Almost none of my friends are in my region and the game region locks you really hard. It's the same as locking you to a specific server in a MMO. BDO and Runescape solved this many years ago so I don't understand why it isn't a staple of the genre by now.
The economy thing for switching shards was solved in ultima online by putting a physical price tag on moving shards if you wanted to being over all your items and gold and experience. No one is going to pay money to switch unless it was a final decision that wouldn't be jumping around very often. So the economy was left enact compared to if all players could do it. Besides. What about your houses. They sit in a physical spot that is very likely occupied by another players structure in that other place. So that couldn't go with you.
I love the community aspect of MMOs but I also play mainly solo. I join in group content when it suits me or if someone calls for help in chat. But for my actual character progression? Pretty much limited to whatever content I can handle solo.
Changing realms or servers was the final nail in the coffin for games that center on PvP like Dark Age of Camelot. Fuck any PvP centric game that allows that beyond a one time permanent move for all characters on an account. Players are always too eager to team stack and it sucks when it happens.
Hi Asmongold! No worries if not, but my dad has terminal cancer and everytime you did ff14 msq, it was a nice distraction. He was really looking forward to Shadowbringers and Endwalker!
Its so annoying to see people in chat say "it isn't that simple", thats just people in chat pretending they have any experience. I also wish I could just tell my boss "it's not that simple" everytime they give me a task that is hard to do and the solution is to just omit something because its easier on me as the worker and we'll just let the consumer suffer and like it.
A lot of the reason for no cross world travel/play has to do with how the back end databases work and scale. With current game tech, it opens up so many possible issues.
When they make new mmorpg's, there is like this formula that they seem to follow which in the end always is about money/profit for the developers and owners of these companies. They suck in new players by throwing perks, claiming while they are initially Marketing f2p. Then eventually they start adding the gotcha aspect. Another issue is pacifying the 24/7 players that want to rush to end game content that cry when they get there they are bored or they think the game is not challenging. So they add more content, which for the starting player is overwhelming. Then they change the starting player position by making it "easier" for them to level then dumb downs the beginning content, taking the wow factor away. i have loved the first mmo's i played and now cringe as I consider new mmorpgs to play worrying about the content and how i am going to be taken advantage of by the developers luring me to eventually spend money just to enjoy the game. I enjoy playing with others but yet enjoy alone time.
When the point of the game was to make friends and adventure together, those were the glory days. Now that everybody is obsessed with how much gold they can get, or who is using the best rotation... the game has become depressing. Take off your damn addons, and read the quests. Go on wow to make friends, and go on adventures and I promise you that it may light up the spark that we've all ignored. Ride with your brothers in arms into battle, and sound the horns and drums of war!!!
I used to play an MMO that fixed its massively hyperinflating economy by having global events, throw your money into this hole and the top 10 or whatever gets their name on a shiny list it worked, so easy
I'm glad this video came out. With the two recent Amazon MMOs, and with WoW Classic, I've been thinking a lot about how archaic it is that people are still making NEW games that have server-locked characters. In 2022. As a (non-game) software engineer, I can assure you it is indeed slightly harder to have one massive single-tenant service. Slight correction: it's actually a lot harder, but the technologies and techniques are out there to solve it. (Cross-region is a much bigger problem.) One of the reasons I think WoW is probably still the greatest achievements of the game industry is because they solved this problem in-place in a live game with all their battlegroup technology. Then for some reason they kind of abandoned it. I think, similar to how they don't have enough solo-queues, this is because they have too many old people in charge who think they need to defend server communities and similar antiquated concepts. But anyway, I think there's a similar old-people problem across the MMO genre. They just take things like server-locked characters for granted. "That's just how it's done." They also probably hire software architects from the genre who only have experience doing it that way.
Even in EVE, when you play online, you can essentially play within it solo and experience the majority of the game. In most older MMOs even the open world pvp sandbox games are the same. (10+ year eve vet opinion here)
Tbh I'm happy to not play solo, just don't force 20 man grouping. 10 man being available as the hardest raid difficulty was a good thing. They should just make it so after HoF ends, mythic raiding becomes flex.
The thing that irks me about the world buff meta is that instead of fixing the issues experienced by the high end raiders they decided to get rid of world buffs for everyone. Here are a couple solutions that would all have been better than just deleting them: 1. Instead of giving everyone a buff, give everyone a unique potion that can be used to apply the buffs at the time of their choosing so they're not having to log in and out to preserve their buffs for the raid. 2. Have the buffs undispellable and persistent through death to foil the BRM griefers and to alleviate the frustration that players felt when they died and lost their buff in the raid. It just sucks that no one gets to have fun because a handful of raiders are salty.
This is what Genshin Impact is, it's a single player MMO with coop features including dungeon farming. The reason it was a good Gacha game was because it was a good game first.... but tragically with Gacha Stapled on.
I do like fixed worlds in MMOs for the same reason I dislike sharding. To me, one of the really cool things in an MMO is seeing someone you know in the world, but maybe you don't have them on your friend list yet. When you shard/instance content this is less likely to happen. Same with when you allow world travel with no cost or inconvenience.
Best game that did the multiplayer good imo was Absolver and it wasnt even an mmo. Just the feeling when you see someone and that someone can be a friend or an enemy and the way its made that players can appear at any random time in any zone it's amazing. Those who know, know.
Even if Im a lonewolf or in a guild teaming up with others.The option of being able to play with freinds or roam alone is a full gaming experience(for many).Fromsoft took one step forward for open world and 2 steps back with lackluster multiplayer.After I beat it there wasn't a reason to play it anymore.They should've scrapped their old multiplayer system and tried something that brings the community together as a whole. Change is GOOD,Great video he makes alotve valid points 👌
For me with MMORPGs I hate when they tack on a MANDATORY SP campaign. This mean whenever I start a new character I need to force myself through the exact same path every single god damn time. I want FREEDOM in my MMORPGs where I can decide where to level and if I got the gears I should be allowed to power level on higher level mobs. Now one MMORPG RPG that did this was Ragnarok Online. It was lets say bit hardcore in the start. As in nothing guides you. You have to figure it out yourself or ask others. Quests needed a wiki page to finish because there where no in game logbook on quests for quite some time. But after a certain update around 2009 they ruined the game and "streamlined" the experience so now you go through basically the same areas on each character. What a waste. Story quests can be done but they should not be mandatory. I'm fine with them if I need to do them to unlock dungeons or other areas. Also these quests should reward a ton of exp for completing it, so that you give people a reason to do it.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
If Josh spends 3 hours reacting to this video, I'm gonna lose it.
If it comes to that, they should really just hop on a stream together and just chat about stuff.
Reacting to a reaction to a reaction.
He already did... lmaoo
that was a 20min vid right, this one is 30 .... brace yourselves we gotta a record incoming
No way he spends 3 hours, it's gonna be 6 this time
Gonna make a 4 hour reaction to this...
Good.
I look forward to being a part of a lot more 50/50 polls
You wont.
Im looking foward to it
shoot the messenger
The whole “alone together” aspect of MMOs is one of their biggest draws. It’s why I play. I enjoy knowing I’m playing a game with other people, but I’m not a fan of hopping in discords and stuff.
Yes , i Played RS and i Do play FF14 almost solo , i like the aspect of randomly helping people with fates and party finders
100% same dude. i just want things to feel alive with other people but i want to be able to do almost everything solo
Like in the past the thoughts of you can play with thousands of different people from around the world connect with someone like you is definitely something mesmerizing
But in the current time with modernization globalization that connectivity has become something normal and it definitely loses the special draw factor
same. I love playing a game with a world that feels alive, with actual players and not just NPCs. I think for most people nowadays, MMOs just have to have stuff you can do solo, not raids, those should always be group content, but there has to be stuff like solo challenges, doing reputations and stuff like that that everyone can do without a group, because everyone just has that time where they want to relax and not deal with other humans.
This's why I Play Runescape 3, as a solo player.
In the game itself, you've everything easier for you to change the server world. Learning you the economy, raids, massive quest, and good rewards. Plus you can meet your friends without any problem.
10:21 Someone in Josh's chat "WoW players have no friends only co-workers" lmao.
But tbh sadly that can be said about quite few MMO's these days.
Yeah, I love it when I can get most things alone in an MMO, but still show it off in cities and open world areas, and in PvP. I love it when multiplayer content is more of a vanity thing, like you get a unique title, mount, cosmetic, or house decoration from raids and dungeons.
literally thats how i felt getting cutting edge
@@lihisluikku
You present that as if it's a virtue when it's just pathetic.
You haven't had co-workers until you've played Eve Online. 😳
@@Bollibompa Is it less pathetic to get the title/achievement in a single player game so you can stare at it alone? If you are in a non-team sport, they don't give you the trophy or medal on the sly. Even if it's a cosmetic that you personally like, it's still fun to show to other people. You get and dress up in clothes that YOU like, but it's still nice if other people appreciate it to.
Commenting for the mom story, much love.
When I was younger, my uncle who had gotten me into the game, would let me fly around on his epic flyer because he too was rich as all hell from farming and just gaming too hard always! Anyways, he would always run me through anything I ever wanted until I had gotten all the gear I could possibly hold, but he would never give me gold. Told me to earn it the hard way. Made flying that much better and I always have fond memories of him almost every time I mount up on a flyer, anywhere. Cheers guys 👌
16:20 This statement right here is so fucking true it’s unbelievable. This is why most of my comments around wow are negative.
There is so much wasted potential, but because they are scared of breaking things, they leave it as is. As long as people are paying monthly, no changes needed. It’s when people leave in masses that they start adding the things we’ve complained about, but in small fragments
What could have been. Mmorpg is a "dead" genre except the Eastern ones w/ p2w aspects. Nothing wrong with that tbh. I actively play Genshin. Tried FF but just not my thing.
Retail WoW has been the opposite for a long time, they change the stuff people like and keep the stuff they don't like.
Blizz changed A LOT of things between vanilla, TBC, Wrath and Cata, quite a few of those changes being rather terrible. So I wouldn't say Blizz have historically been too afraid of changing things, rather the opposite. Almost nothing remains between expansions, everything changes. I can't say that 100% for retail since I haven't played it in a long time, but I feel it's definitely true for vanilla-Cata.
This is exactly how retail corporations work today too. As long as the money flows, there is actually 0 chance of change or improvement. Capitalism is ruining mmo development
I could listen to asmon’s stories about his mom forever. RIP 🪦
Mama Asmon ❤️❤️❤️
wow I never knew his mom was a wow gamer too.
RIP asmon's mother 😔🕯🙏
You actually couldn’t listen to stories about her forever because you don’t live forever.
The fact she paid for things for him online is such mom things that it melted my heart, I too need more stories
Asmon will forever be enshrined in our hearts as a wow communtiy friend and family member. I've watched him for years, and dont even know him. But in my heart I believe I do know him. Thanks for all the hard work. Many of us look forward to coming home and escaping reality with you. So we appreciate your time and years spent playing. And years making content.
Tbh as a 28y man i just miss the old times and the nostalgia of logging into an mmo and play for 1 day from morning untill the next morning with your guild and friends and just have fun . Now i feel like im always playing by myself and i get bored or tired of an mmo fast . Sadge
Mmos are a different breed now .
Because multiplayer online in general was new, at least at a presentable quality. Now it's Standart in every game.
@@PerionTermia well said imo
The new generation of gamers have changed as well. Like just look at the PS2/PS3 era of gaming to now. The layers in game purchases or pay to win mechanics
29 and I feel you brother. I miss my friends. Been isolated or ostracized last two years
Same, that's why I'm stopping playing them, and i play my favorite single player games
100% this, as a paramedic i learned more in my 1st day than i did in 6 months of school, as actual experience is so important to getting outside your safe zone and making actual improvements.
Oh god, I fucking hope I never wake up in an ambulance and see "alexsnder sheil". That would be instant irl wipe.
@@disser3849 welcome to healthcare, its why we call it practice
I love hearing Asmon speak about stories of his mom's time in WoW, it's so wholesome
You know what, it's sad and sweet that I know why Asmon can't stop playing and loving / hate wow. It's because all the memories he have with the game and his mom.
yeah addiction is a powerful thing that ruins people lives but in his case it' applauded because he's some never-do-ill streamer.
people are too fucking dumb it's astonishing.
I mean... it's part of it but not really the only reason
@Urazz That's me with Rust now, it just feels weird to play, I have a lot of the sprays to a decent level, but the game just feels different now.
@@watersnortmoment3734 what about now
"Well at least we got somebody in here that played a rogue"
I don't think he's uttered a more devastating and true statement
That's the thing, I'm a solo player but the reason I love MMOs so much is because of the bustling, lively world around me. I love feeling like a very small and insignificant part of something much bigger. With FFXIV, I love going into a city and seeing bards playing random songs, and enjoying that whole atmosphere as I'm going about turning in quests and such. I'm not a good player, so the trust system appeals to me for this reason, I get so embarrassed basically whenever I do have to play with other players and they rely on me to fulfill my role because I know I suck at it. I hate that tbh. Just give me a bustling world filled with other players I can interact and play with *if* I ever so choose, but let me also be the antisocial solo player gremlin that I actually am at the same time. That would be the best MMO for me, imo. FFXIV is so close to being just that for me.
The cool thing about WoW back in the day was you could play solo where you didnt have to be on teamspeak/ventrilo but you could meet someone in world who was trying to do the same thing you do, team up and do a few quests then be on your way. It was good stuff back in the day. It’s no longer the early 2000s tho and solo WoW is pretty easy these days.
I think thats what made wow so incredible tho. Each realm has it own identity. On one realm your max lvl and know every guild on it. In the next one your a low lvl with no friends. When they added cross realm, it felt like they ripped apart our community and tried to force it with multiple others.
They added cross realm because realms were dying.
I am playing SWTOR solely for the singleplayer content. And the devs really get it and basically transformed the game from an mmo into kotor 3. Is purfect.
@@touchingisjustthefirststep yeah but it’s all we got till a real kotor 3 comes, and it’ll come since we’re getting a full remake of 1 and 2
wow really? i was avoiding swtor because i hate mmos
@@silco5343 big mistake was one of the most unique ones with kotor story elements and choices of not one of the best solo mmos I put it behind final fantasy
@@silco5343 Go play it. The stories are awesome.
His teacher point is so perfect, because if you could learn everything you needed to learn from info alone, there wouldn't be teachers at all. Which is why teachers who give lots of homework are ass. They're passing the buck, they're not doing their job.
I prefer being single player. Guilds always cause drama. There are so many butt hurt toxic kids in games these days lol. Also guilds expect you to do stuff with them all the time, but if you're in a bad guild chances are it will judt hold you back. I understand their are perks to being in a guild, but i play games to get away from people and enjoy my free time to myself. I love mmos for the "we are all hear doing the same stuff at our own pace" aspect. Its great to be in a world full of people but doesn't mean you have to interact with them lol.
Despite the meme that Destiny 2 has become, it actually has solved many of the problems Asmon and Josh have described. D2 is playable on Xbox, PS, PC, and Stadia and Crossplay is enabled for all of them so everyone can play together without server region restrictions. D2 has a single player experience all the way to endgame level, the only things requiring pre made groups are the Raids. PVP gear is capped while it is uncapped in PVE. PVP power is tuned separately from PVE (weapon damage, ability cooldowns, aim assist, etc.). Free to play model and paid model still lets everyone play together. Make fun of it all you want, Bungie thought of these things years ago. Took time, but its because they had to operate and patch a live game while they did it.
true. its the evolution mmo should turn to. tho its a hassle for the devs to pump constant content and balancing issues (pvp). lots of destiny clone failed miserably.
A large part of the reason there are individual servers/realms is that clustering and various other technologies were not nearly as developed in 2000-2010 when a lot of the big MMO names were developed. Further, the skills needed to code a game and to run infrastructure usually don't go together in IT, doubly so back then before containers & devops. I would cut older games some slack for not having a global realm/economy back in the day. Now if they are still operating that way in 2022... that's a different story.
Love hearing Asmon reminiscing about his mom. RIP
18:55 I thought a way they might be able to make it more fair would be to include something like revenge from For Honor. If the game is registering hits from more than one player against a single target, that player starts gaining stacks of a buff that puts them on a level where they can compete with these players who are attacking them. Obviously there's a lot of calculation that would have to go into this, but some factors to include might be players within the area of attack, differentiating between single-target vs. AoE damage, and iLvl differences.
I’ve played runescape for 15 years on and off, I started playing the oldschool version in 2017 and people say I like it because of nostalgia, but after having put 5000 hours on my ultimate ironman I’d say the reason I stay is because of the community and developers and the democracy of updates and the simplicity with complexity depending on what YOU choose to do.
I love High tier PVM, I have done non high tier pvm yet because my account isnt progressed enough, but having that goal of one day reaching endgame bosses and raids just make me want to continue grinding out the skills and grinds for now because I will benefit from doing the grinding now rather than later.
@biuor su what story are you referring to? Mine? Or his video?
Not gonna lie. Listening to asmon talk about his mom and him playing wow made me tear up a little. I miss that woman and I don’t even know her.
I can honestly say the same about your mom man, my dad actually did the same thing with Runescape back in 05. But he basically played WoW as a single player game, he wasn't bad, he just didn't enjoy raiding for whatever reason. He never really did pvp either, however when isle of co quest first came out, he literally grinded out the meta for it. It was so unusual for him, but I'm assuming he enjoyed that one. He basically looked at the achievement list as a quest log. And ended up quitting with about 19.2k achs, at the end of cata.
As a perfectionist, this cut deep. I never get anything done. It's a damn curse I can't break free from.
Same. I'm also terribly insecure and shy. I admire people who can do what they want to do, but it's really hard for me to get started or deal with roadblocks.
@@glanni Yeah, roadblocks are a big issue for me. I don't like to settle or say _"that's not great, but it'll do"_
Do you ever manage to battle through it?
@@peterbabicki8252 would it be possible to get yourself into a "perfect when possible" mindset? as in if you're making a game you do the basic stuff, make it playable and then add the perfecting part? might be a step in the right direction to getting stuff done
@@mithshude It's something I'm working on. I can finish small art projects or very small novels _(me and a friend share short stories)_ but anything substantial and I find it incredibly hard to stay motivated if things aren't _"perfect"_
@@peterbabicki8252 at my work we often use the phrase “perfection is the enemy of good”. It’s like taking a vacation. Would you rather have a good vacation that you enjoy or a perfect vacation that never happens?
Games like Lost Ark are the biggest examples of a single player MMO. Small guild size, small group size, 8 man raid size. The game even kicks you out of your channel while you're in a group if it's full, doesn't even prompt you find a new channel to stay in the group. Joined a guild desperately trying to string together a solid group of people to eventually tackle the endgame content, but it was like pulling teeth trying to get people to form a community and I don't think it's the players fault. Games like this say they're MMO's but have systems that make it more efficient to do most content solo, and make it easy to just pug everything - even the endgame. Although Classic WoW had problems, one of it's biggest strengths was community.
To quote a wise bug:
"Never perfect. Perfection goal that changes. Never stops moving. Can chase, cannot catch."
11:44 It's not as simple as just pressing a button but it's something that has bin done before in multiple games, it's not like combining servers or markets is a colossal, unfathomable task.
You know what’s crazy? I know this story because he once told this story on a previous stream.
And I love hearing it again.
When asmon talks about his mom, he lights up :)
As a teen during my exams I was always a perfectionist, I spent up to hours on one question crafting it as good as I possibly could however it's very true that I never got anything done in the scope of the full exam, It took me years to get out of this habit and it was unnatural to me. Sometimes even the crafted answers that took way to long to do where incorrect and that's when I realised it's better to just rush through the exam doing what I know first then elaborating afterwards. So I agree fully with Josh here
Telling stories like this about my loved ones that have passed always makes me tear up. Props to you Asmon for sharing this with us.
idk why its so hard to understand that some people like fighting with a disadvantage. Thats what makes it fun and challenging, its not supposed to be fair. But sometimes it is fair, my favorite part of open world pvp is just the randomness of it all. Maybe you fight 1 person, maybe 3, maybe 10 bad players, maybe 2 good players. Its amazing, and i think people dont give it a chance. I think a big problem with it is incentive. Why flag for pvp, in games with flagging systems, when you are going to do something? You have an objective, and flagging is just going to waste time and prolong what you set out into the world to do.
For example, if you went to go farm something in a game, why flag? Maybe you get killed and have to go all the way back. But if that item your farming will drop 3 instead of 1 item, then maybe you do flag. Also, if a game dev said, this zone is pvp at 6pm tonight, you get X rewards for doing things here, people would join. Kind of like archeage and zones going in and out of war. Something like that is great because you know when its coming and you can choose to do what you need to do in that area before the pvp starts, if you dont want to pvp, or join if you do. On the other hand, things can be done like eso does. Just one large zone with open world pvp with multiple goals involved.
I just think that there are waaayyyy more people who enjoy, or could enjoy, open world pvp than people think. Yes more people will always rather fight npcs than real people but i think thats just more people not wanting a challenge because they play more casually, and thats fine. But i dont think the divide is that wide. Like in eso, people join in pvp during events because the rewards are good. And most of the people i talk to say its fun. But on the other hand, open world full loot pvp games are definitely more niche. Eso has a pretty good balance of BG pvp, open world pvp in cyrodil, and risk vs reward pvp in the imperial city where you can lose currency that you earn while in there if you die.
Honestly this is why I loved pre cu SWG. Everything had some sort of player interaction, but it wasn’t forced on. You could do endgame content solo if you wanted or with a group.
Pre-CU was the shit.
Had a friend who built a bounty hunter so fucking wild that made people so mad. Ranger/Marksmen/BH dude could camo and sneak up right near you and if you wern't paying attention to the map.. well gg.
He used to also look like an average artisan a lot, so jedi wouldn't get spooked, they'd just see a guy going out surveying and shit, and then go away, and then they're dead. XD so much CSR messages. "we're told you're harrassing players."
"i'm a bounty hunter, and that was a jedi. nice 450k creds tho tell them thanks"
That was something i needed to hear from josh about being not ready, just start. Thank you
I mostly played single player. The only reason myself and others formed a guild was to talk shit while we went about our business, or it was a much cheaper alternative to the auction house. We'd help each other out. Never raided, never really went near many dungeons either. But still had a ton of fun. I'd dip into BGs from time to time but that was about the total extent of my multiplayer play.
Some of my best experiences in WoW were related to my worst experiences. I played as alliance on a server that slowly became horde dominated. I got used to being ganked. Much later, AQ geared I was waiting in front of Dire Maul to help some friends. There they came again. They were undergeared. Pressing recklessness and a few seconds later they were on the ground. After the remaining two came out of the dungeon. They joined their friends on the ground. I will never forget that glorious moment. Maybe some bad experiences aren't that bad at all?
The interconnectivity gimmick doesn’t work because what we’ve learned, after getting to see and relate to everyone in the world through multiplayer and social media, is that we all don’t really like each other! And… that’s okay too.
That mom story honestly reminds me of the days of when my family was still together, me and my ma would play the everloving shit out of Pirates of the Caribbean Online together(I was like, 8 or 9), we even ran a guild with a bunch of friends, I remember spending a long time trying to beat that damn Black Pearl raid with her, we were sad when POTCO shut down
Nowadays she mostly prefers Candy Crush, but we still talk about game stuff sometimes. It's cool to hear other people's gamer mom stories
I love when people reminisce about the good memories of their families even though you can’t understand why that moment is so fondly spoken of. Just shows how amazing people are.
Even with all of OSRS’ different servers/worlds, we still have communities on specific worlds. Even though you can do anything on any world, we have worlds dedicated to certain minigames, worlds dedicated to pvp or high risk pvp, worlds dedicated to house parties, trading, etc. And that wasn’t even done by Jagex at first, that was all developed by the players and then Jagex adopted it officially by labeling the specific worlds in the game itself.
About the server economies... It's not complex. ONE AUCTION HOUSE for every one no matter the servers or factions (except maybe PvP) everywhere ---- FIXED !
So you can log on FarStriders, jump on Westfall to help a friend raid with his guild. then jump back on a small server because you just want to play alone for a while.
Same AH, same prices. Thy only need an AH for RP/PVP servers and another for RP/PvE, for each version (Classic/TBC/Retail).
This should be standard on all MMOs. No more dead economy servers is music to my ears.
tbh a lot of mmos have been released last year and this year and most of them died after 3-4 months. the genre has no hope anymore. i wish they just make more co-op rpg games with a good story that you can play with a friend.
Only the Korean ones die. A little something to do with paying for advantages over other players, devaluing your experience.
The issue with releasing unfinished games and then "fixing" them later on is that they never do enough work, the games always get abandoned before they can reach true potential. Not to mention the endless cut features.
25:20 galaxy brain
It takes too long to.
Josh's 4hr reaction to a reaction video is going to be a MUST SEE.
My girlfriend plays MMOs like Asmon's mom did. Like right now she's playing Lost Ark entirely F2P, but she has just farmed a starting gold amount of few thousand with professions and weeklies. Then she started flipping collection drops on the market, and has made like a million gold or more. She invests it into limited edition skin chests that will hold value, or even rise in value. Like she is T1 geared 400 hours in, but owns skins worth thousands of dollars.
"Like she is T1 geared 400 hours in, but owns skins worth thousands of dollars."
Who gives a shit?
One of the new mantras in coding is "fail often, but fail small". And its about doing more things in smaller chunks rapidly, but anything you fail at, can be fixed next time in a small chunk.
Thats why gw2 is still surviving...playing easily together at least in the general continent and having a big marketplace, is what they decided early on after release, that they should do this.
there is 1 way to make world pvp fair, and that is pvp zones. kinda like the elite quest zones in classic, you don't have to go there but doing so can get you better rewards. for people that played the division, think of the standard map and dark zones (with the addition that it's actively mmo and not solo/co op)
The division was a perfect example of a game that was not ready to be release but the developer never gave up and they kept working on it and need up being really fun.
I like how everything wrong with MMO's today is still everything RuneScape is doing right. It's not perfect by any means but at least RuneScape isn't outright blocking you from playing the game with your friends. Just hop to my world, teleport straight to any area basically. This whole thing about creating multiple accounts/classes is horrible for people who are older now as well who may not have the time to shell out more than 2 hours+ a day on a game. RuneScape allows you to do everything in game on one character, not forcing you to play a class just to get into some higher tier raiding content or whatever *cough* Lost Ark... (a game i'm currently enjoying as a ftp player w/2 accounts in T3 so far...). Also, the economy used to be a universal player made concept of W2 (server) Falador (city) Park (location of trading) just as 1 example, but now it's been upgraded to the grand exchange which is available to anyone on any server and it's trading items across every single server not just specific to a single world (server). I can certainly keep going but I'm afraid i've been labeled as a RuneScape Andy at this point from people who haven't given the game a shot enough to recognize what a real "player's experience mmo" actually is.
Osrs is the only mmo I didn't grow up with, I started to play it in 2016. I cannot go back to WoW, ffxiv or GW2 but I regularly go back to osrs because of all the stuff to do in that game. The biggest flaw of osrs is controls, combat and visuals.
Literally. Like anything anyone has an issue with about the nature of mmo's it's like "oh yeah osrs does this whole different thing so it doesn't have that problem at all" The game is practically perfect tbh. The only actual downside is it starts slow and more seriously like the levels between 80-120 can feel extremely slow so most people never touch the absolute best parts of the game like all the new raids and even some older bosses. If less people cared about graphics I think it would have been the biggest mmo since release.
@@darthcuckold1486 BIggest flaw but biggest advantage. As people have figured out the tick system, playing OSRS endgame and using pray flicking and gear switching, as well as the latest boss mechanics, make osrs combat really fun. And if that's still too easy? PVP has a high skill ceiling, just need to learn about the tick system, eating and combos to do well.
@@Alex9ten well yeah, 99 was the max skill level and most people didn't just get them. People would grind for ages to get a single 99. I played for years without a single one. 99 is 13m xp and 120 is 104m xp.
Honestly, the only reason they upped it is because they realised they need to keep vets playing who have achieved 99 in all skills and quit. Bringing them to 120 almost 10x'd the amount of experience to max. It's good and bad.
OSRS is more fun as a single player rpg game which focuses on being medieval with fantasy, you then participate in group elements the further you get into progression. Magic exists but nothing is too flashy or tries to take itself seriously. Rs3 is an amazing solo experience but due to years and years of graphical updates, is overly flashy and looks high fantasy (which I dislike so much). Rs3 has a more fun endgame experience but so many things have been made almost useless, like how they added teleport nodes to places you can teleport for free instead of requiring people to teleport with runes, tablets, teleport unlocks or teleport item unlocks. Rs3 has crapped on a lot of it's earlier game progression and while it's a fun game, it's not the same game it used to be.
And while OSRS is fun, some things like Runecrafting are so abnormally boring, but the economy around runes and what people use them for, really makes the world feel more alive rather than, a place you visit, it's a place you live.
@Mark Sheymus I think you misunderstood me lol. I am a RuneScape vet of 15+ years with over 9k hours played. I still to this day play roughly 8+ hours. I'm currently playing Lost Ark and that game alone requires a stupid amount of time just to stay relevant with the games updates. So no man, i'm not a 2 hour andy, i'm more of the "successful career man with no kids with a lot of time to waste guy". I'm advocating for those who want to play mmo's but newer games don't respect people's time and force them to do daily tasks in order to progress instead of gear them towards doing fun activities that still progress your character instead of mundane job like tasks which are quite boring honestly *cough* infinite chaos dungeons.
To this day the best single player experience i've had was in SWTOR.
Playing with friends is super easy because of the level shifting so you can play with your lvl 80 friend as a level 10 with no downside at all and you get rewards based on your level and so do they so no one loses anything by playing with a higher/lower level player.
SWTOR is very underrated MMO, it has systems that are miles ahead of many of the modern MMOs.
my mom was a sngle player kinda person as well growing up she always had materials and gold in her gnomes guild bank and me and my sister would try and bribe her by doing dishes to give us gold for dual spec or training
man cant wait for the 4 hour response video
Every single time someone complains about something in a MMO i think, "Gw2 does not have this problem".
Right? The game got shat on for so long, yet had systems light years ahead of other MMOs.
GW2 flat-out deleted my account and refused to listen to me begging for help to restore it. I'd been hacked; they couldn't care less. Accused me of cheating and wouldn't even listen to me. I lost an account with hundreds of dollars of cash shop items and two legendary weapons. I'd never so much as used a swear word in game chat, nothing.
I don't know of any other game with such dreadful customer service.
"My game has too many people playing it." Indeed
In the FFXIV datacenter travel system they are sadly still restricting it so you can only play on servers in your own regions because Japanese players complained that they don't want non JP people on their servers
The fact he has her wow account, that's cool
EVE online had fair world pvp provided both parties understood the games' systems because if you did combat was entirely consensual. The hard part was getting the other guy to accept a fight that you'd beat him in.
We need an entire three parter of the best stories and tales of Asmon‘s mom:)
Josh seriously needs more subscribers. Very sensible cleaver man.
Agree
FFXIV kinda proved that server economies can be preserved while allowing more freedom of movement by players. There are still restrictions in place and I couldn't say whether those limitations have any effect on the economy, but a player-driven economy has ways of working itself out (barring heavy botting and currency selling).
MMO's should encourage you to play and interact with other players. All of these new games main issue is they are too single player friendly.
What a MMO RPG needs a good story, immersion, Character Lore because most characters have a big influence on people for example sigmar from warhammer ect it just makes it nice to be in a fully immersed world. All they need to add is a Server with no bugs combat that’s skill based and simple not crazy skills popping off causing fire works ect a good game combat example is weapons that come with thier own combat styles without the crazy fx and AOEs and magic combat that isn’t lock on but skill required it’ll give it a slower approach to combat like survivals where dodging is essential and those who rush in are punished.
as someone who has gotten into game development recently and playing around in ue5 right now, i considered developing an mmo, for about 10 seconds. now i'm thinking of a single player fps/tps since that is probably some of the easier ones to make.
ue5 makes it a lot easier and 1 person could potentially make a decent linear game in not too much time, but making an mmo alone... not gonna happen unless it's a 100% dungeon crawler like vindictus, and even then it would probably double production time at the very least
Josh Strife nails it. Perfectionism doesn't effectively get a product out perfect or near it. It might sometimes with the right vision and team on board. But as he says, you've got to know what noise needs to be heard and also what doesn't. Put out the bigger fires before the smaller ones and keep the fire hose handy when wildfire ensues!
Loved the perfection vs done, it was the wise words I needed. I'm one of those who like to over prepare in certain things cause I'm afraid of failing or losing, trying to gather as many tips, advice, guides and studying something before doing it.
This can be from PvP to raiding, painting and other kinds of hobbies, even making calls or starting to exercise. Not always, or it'd hindered me way more, but there's been a lot of things I've had to drop the perfectionist mindset just to get something done.
Still, there's been a few things that's been sitting there, waiting for me to be done with my perfectionist preparation, and hearing Josh's words I feel more confident that I should just get things done, stop preparing and start learning while at it, and accept the fact anyone will fail, especially new, but failure breeds experience.
I have no memory of Dire Maul ever being a raid.
It’s sad that couch co-op is basically a novelty too. Those were some of my favorite games to play with my little sister. Everything from the multiplayer on Conkers BFD (original, not the halo knockoff bullshit) to resident evil 5, and so on. We would enjoy all of them, but even shit games back then could honestly be made fun. Now you can’t play anything with anyone unless they’re over a connection and you can’t play half of the games anyways if you’re trying to avoid games that are trying to make this abusive monetization commonplace and accepted. It’s just heartbreaking at this point dude.
The flip side, is if you stack everything in your favor. Say you get all the mics and emotes and the gaming chair, and then you start. And you fail WITH all the variables stacked in your favor. You find out very quick if a problem is you, or your equipment. And sure it's an expensive way to learn you suck at something, but it can, for some people, also be a good way to remove all the classic excuses and get them to realize THEY are the problem.
great stories Zach and good memories i have with my wife and boys when she was alive so ty man take care. We only played as a family guilds were so toxic and bad on the horde side.
I'm sorry for your loss.
I loved Path of Exile for this. I played that entirely solo and never felt punished for it. And when I had some friends I wanted to play with, we just played, I didn't have to think, we didn't have to transfer regions, we just played.
Bro him talking about his mom playing and him still owning her account lightweight makes me want to cry
This is the reason I don't play Riot games like League and Valorant. Almost none of my friends are in my region and the game region locks you really hard. It's the same as locking you to a specific server in a MMO. BDO and Runescape solved this many years ago so I don't understand why it isn't a staple of the genre by now.
The economy thing for switching shards was solved in ultima online by putting a physical price tag on moving shards if you wanted to being over all your items and gold and experience. No one is going to pay money to switch unless it was a final decision that wouldn't be jumping around very often. So the economy was left enact compared to if all players could do it. Besides. What about your houses. They sit in a physical spot that is very likely occupied by another players structure in that other place. So that couldn't go with you.
I love the community aspect of MMOs but I also play mainly solo. I join in group content when it suits me or if someone calls for help in chat. But for my actual character progression? Pretty much limited to whatever content I can handle solo.
Ahh what great memories. I remember being on wow all day. I miss that "can't wait to log in" feeling
Changing realms or servers was the final nail in the coffin for games that center on PvP like Dark Age of Camelot. Fuck any PvP centric game that allows that beyond a one time permanent move for all characters on an account. Players are always too eager to team stack and it sucks when it happens.
Hi Asmongold!
No worries if not, but my dad has terminal cancer and everytime you did ff14 msq, it was a nice distraction. He was really looking forward to Shadowbringers and Endwalker!
Its so annoying to see people in chat say "it isn't that simple", thats just people in chat pretending they have any experience. I also wish I could just tell my boss "it's not that simple" everytime they give me a task that is hard to do and the solution is to just omit something because its easier on me as the worker and we'll just let the consumer suffer and like it.
Wiping blackboards up/down is also just the most efficient and clean way to do it
A lot of the reason for no cross world travel/play has to do with how the back end databases work and scale. With current game tech, it opens up so many possible issues.
This is why I love Warframe so much. You can solo damn near everything, the quests are designed to be played solo.
Except that one cool ass raid we had but they took out because they didn’t want to fix it lol
When they make new mmorpg's, there is like this formula that they seem to follow which in the end always is about money/profit for the developers and owners of these companies. They suck in new players by throwing perks, claiming while they are initially Marketing f2p. Then eventually they start adding the gotcha aspect. Another issue is pacifying the 24/7 players that want to rush to end game content that cry when they get there they are bored or they think the game is not challenging. So they add more content, which for the starting player is overwhelming. Then they change the starting player position by making it "easier" for them to level then dumb downs the beginning content, taking the wow factor away. i have loved the first mmo's i played and now cringe as I consider new mmorpgs to play worrying about the content and how i am going to be taken advantage of by the developers luring me to eventually spend money just to enjoy the game. I enjoy playing with others but yet enjoy alone time.
When the point of the game was to make friends and adventure together, those were the glory days. Now that everybody is obsessed with how much gold they can get, or who is using the best rotation... the game has become depressing. Take off your damn addons, and read the quests. Go on wow to make friends, and go on adventures and I promise you that it may light up the spark that we've all ignored. Ride with your brothers in arms into battle, and sound the horns and drums of war!!!
I used to play an MMO that fixed its massively hyperinflating economy by having global events, throw your money into this hole and the top 10 or whatever gets their name on a shiny list
it worked, so easy
I'm glad this video came out. With the two recent Amazon MMOs, and with WoW Classic, I've been thinking a lot about how archaic it is that people are still making NEW games that have server-locked characters. In 2022.
As a (non-game) software engineer, I can assure you it is indeed slightly harder to have one massive single-tenant service. Slight correction: it's actually a lot harder, but the technologies and techniques are out there to solve it. (Cross-region is a much bigger problem.) One of the reasons I think WoW is probably still the greatest achievements of the game industry is because they solved this problem in-place in a live game with all their battlegroup technology. Then for some reason they kind of abandoned it. I think, similar to how they don't have enough solo-queues, this is because they have too many old people in charge who think they need to defend server communities and similar antiquated concepts.
But anyway, I think there's a similar old-people problem across the MMO genre. They just take things like server-locked characters for granted. "That's just how it's done." They also probably hire software architects from the genre who only have experience doing it that way.
Didn’t FFXIV just add cross server visits, and now they’re adding cross data Center visits? Maybe they figured it all out?
How did they abandon it since you can play with people on any server by grouping with them?
Even in EVE, when you play online, you can essentially play within it solo and experience the majority of the game. In most older MMOs even the open world pvp sandbox games are the same. (10+ year eve vet opinion here)
Bro i Will never get enough of asmongolds real Life storys. SO RELATABLE. Love it.
7:50 Eve Online is a good example as to why it's not that simple.
i love how the topic just tackles not only in games. good video
Tbh I'm happy to not play solo, just don't force 20 man grouping. 10 man being available as the hardest raid difficulty was a good thing.
They should just make it so after HoF ends, mythic raiding becomes flex.
The thing that irks me about the world buff meta is that instead of fixing the issues experienced by the high end raiders they decided to get rid of world buffs for everyone. Here are a couple solutions that would all have been better than just deleting them:
1. Instead of giving everyone a buff, give everyone a unique potion that can be used to apply the buffs at the time of their choosing so they're not having to log in and out to preserve their buffs for the raid.
2. Have the buffs undispellable and persistent through death to foil the BRM griefers and to alleviate the frustration that players felt when they died and lost their buff in the raid.
It just sucks that no one gets to have fun because a handful of raiders are salty.
This is what Genshin Impact is, it's a single player MMO with coop features including dungeon farming. The reason it was a good Gacha game was because it was a good game first.... but tragically with Gacha
Stapled on.
I do like fixed worlds in MMOs for the same reason I dislike sharding. To me, one of the really cool things in an MMO is seeing someone you know in the world, but maybe you don't have them on your friend list yet.
When you shard/instance content this is less likely to happen. Same with when you allow world travel with no cost or inconvenience.
Best game that did the multiplayer good imo was Absolver and it wasnt even an mmo. Just the feeling when you see someone and that someone can be a friend or an enemy and the way its made that players can appear at any random time in any zone it's amazing. Those who know, know.
Even if Im a lonewolf or in a guild teaming up with others.The option of being able to play with freinds or roam alone is a full gaming experience(for many).Fromsoft took one step forward for open world and 2 steps back with lackluster multiplayer.After I beat it there wasn't a reason to play it anymore.They should've scrapped their old multiplayer system and tried something that brings the community together as a whole. Change is GOOD,Great video he makes alotve valid points 👌
It's the same reason so many people ove Old School Runescapes "Leagues" modes. They are solo gameplay, with a community aspect.
For me with MMORPGs I hate when they tack on a MANDATORY SP campaign.
This mean whenever I start a new character I need to force myself through the exact same path every single god damn time.
I want FREEDOM in my MMORPGs where I can decide where to level and if I got the gears I should be allowed to power level on higher level mobs.
Now one MMORPG RPG that did this was Ragnarok Online.
It was lets say bit hardcore in the start. As in nothing guides you. You have to figure it out yourself or ask others. Quests needed a wiki page to finish because there where no in game logbook on quests for quite some time.
But after a certain update around 2009 they ruined the game and "streamlined" the experience so now you go through basically the same areas on each character. What a waste.
Story quests can be done but they should not be mandatory. I'm fine with them if I need to do them to unlock dungeons or other areas.
Also these quests should reward a ton of exp for completing it, so that you give people a reason to do it.