bro - saying that the Jesus prayer is an “incantation” in order to “veg out” is one of the wildest things I think I have ever had the hilarious displeasure of encountering in my entire life
Why I'm leaving Protestantism for Orthodoxy. First reason, I started reading the writings of the Church Fathers. Very very quickly I found these men believed things I was raised to believe were "later unbiblical additions by Rome." Real Presence in the Eucharist. Bishops. Second, the theology. The completely different view of Original Sin. Theosis. The theology of Iconography. Third, the beauty. I don't walk into a large room with four bare walls and a plain cross behind a pulpit. I see beautiful images of Christ, the Theotokos, and the Saints. The beauty of the service itself. The service also made me realize what real worship actually is, and it's something the laypeople participate in. I don't passively sit in a pew and listen to a soft rock concert followed by a Ted Talk on Scripture. I stand in the presence of Christ and cross myself and bow throughout. I actually take part in the worship. When I interact with my priest I feel the actual authority he holds that I never felt when interacting with any Protestant pastor. Everything about it just fills me with knowing this is The Truth. The deep theology makes way more sense to me over Protestant and Catholic theology and satisfies me intellectually. The services and experience satisfy me spiritually. I absolutely love Orthodoxy.
While it's less odious than the Mary worshippers my main issue is it got blow out by the commies and basically did every sin imaginable to stay alive under the Soviets. Also it's "Rome" sits under the Muslims and a vast majority of it's old territory is now Turkey. While I get the pathetic catholic argument that because one so called "protestant" church has trannies or gays in it how that somehow equates to every sect of Protestantism they mostly argue that way while knowing that's not how Protestantism works, as though all being united under Captain Queer in Rome is any better. But the Orthodox make the same argument and worse actually stay in communion with the Catholics while it was overwhelmingly the Protestantism who bailed their asses out during the Cold War. It wasn't Italy, Spain, or Latin America that held the godless hordes back it was the US and UK mostly. So while I'm glad Russia is pushing back against the homosexuals in the Orthodox faith they also need to free Constantinople and frankly most of the West wouldn't give two craps about the Turks being wiped out seeing how the muslims bites the hand that feeds.
Why I’m staying Protestant and not converting to Orthodox: 1. The Bible is more ancient and clear than the “Church Fathers” 2. Icon veneration is a late innovation and flirts with idolatry. 3. I’m spiritually motivated by the Gospel of Christ and not pretty church buildings.
@@johnathanl8396 1. The "Church Fathers" Made the bible 2. Christians have always made/used Icons and was approved in the 2nd Nicene Council 3. You should be! but not all Orthodox church buildings are pretty ( P.S. its not the building people are leaving Protestantism! Its the Theology)
The arrogance and pridefulness that this topic is approached with is a great testimony for the Orthodox faith! These guys clearly have no idea why men are converting to Orthodoxy. It is much deeper than beards or what appears to be masculine or based. They are finding the ancient faith and the truth in Orthodoxy, and are giving their lives to it! May God lead many more to the Holy Orthodox faith!
I hope you aren’t so blind. I’ve actually seen more arrogance and condescension in EO and RC (especially RC, it’s really bad) than most others. EO is growing because people are looking for what they WANT. They aren’t studying deep theology and coming to the “truth of EO”. They’re converting because of how they feel. The vast, vast majority have NOT studied the early church fathers, especially ante-nicene. There’s a decent gap both theologically and in time. Iconodulia wasn’t part of the church officially until the second Nicene council in the 700’s AD. Clement of Alexandria in particular had a fair amount to say in regard to iconodulia. Same with Eusebius, Origen and Methodius. And you cannot argue “not all church fathers agreed”, because then what is your unifying authority? Scripture? How? EO holds scripture in equal authority with tradition, whether that’s “church fathers” or otherwise. Scripture itself is almost mute on iconodulia except for of course the commandments against false idols. IMO, most “church” tradition, EO, RC or Protestant has more to do with what man wants and feels is right than what God actually says. But, that is just my opinion and am open to being (and probably am) wrong.
David Patrick Harry of Church of the Eternal Logos destroyed this video in his live stream. The question asked at the beginning of the show "Why isn't what we're doing working?" And then you gave a hundred examples in the show. Strawmanning Orthodoxy is only Streisand effecting the Faith to your audience. Keep it up fellas 🙏🏻☦️
I left Protestantism because the doctrine makes no sense.... 3 of the 5 catechumens in our last class were former Roman Catholics. 5 of the 6 in the current catechumen class are former Protestants...
It makes less sense to me to think a church that bowed to communists and muslims has the right path. They might be getting there now but walking hand in hand with Captain Queer in Rome the same church who allied with the muslims to do in your former empire. The modern EO exists because of Protestantism holding the line against the godless horde and working with the EO to subvert them.
Roman pagans: “If these Christ cult followers win the day, Rome will be finished!” Early Christians/Orthodox Christians: “Why yes, exactly. When you are baptized into Christ, the goal is not to stay the same but to become TRANSFIGURED!”
As a cradle Orthodox, I'm loving this discussion. If nothing else, it will help add to the flood to the Orthodox Church. Some random thoughts: 1. Not only do you not understand Orthodoxy, you don't really seem to understand America. The old Protestant America (which I truly loved!) is GONE. Sad, but it just is. It ain't coming back. The question is, can ANY, new America reconstitute itself with Christian content? I hope so, but let's not presume. But just as failing pagan Rome was saved but transformed by Christianity -- and remained the Roman Empire but a Christian one for another thousand years -- if God is merciful Americans still have a future. We'll see. 2. "We are Americans, we are Western, we think, Orthodoxy hath no power in these United States." So why is my parish 90 percent "ethnic" Americans, not just converts but now children and even grandchildren born in the Church? Where did all that rationalism get you? 3. No, we don't all have to "become monks" (I'm not). 4. Nor do we have to become Greeks, Russians, Serbs etc -- in fact, you're the ones making the ethnic argument, not us. Just as Orthodoxy became Greek, Russian etc in those countries, it's becoming American too. 5. "Orthodox don't have to think, just accept." To the extent that's true, we don't need to rethink core doctrines like Trinity, Incarnation etc. American Evangelicism is rife with reborn Arianism, Nestorianism, Sabellianism, etc. We don't have that problem. (See "thinking," above at 2.) BTW, Filioque is pronounced "fee-lee-OH-quay". 6. Protestants are closer in thinking to Roman Catholicism than to Orthodox. True. 7. "Ghey"? Greece? Name ONE historically Protestant country that doesn't worship the sacred rainbow flag. Corrupt Greek politicians passed ghey "marriage" to please masters in DC and Brussels. The usual suspects whooped it up that the finally snagged an Orthodox country. It's pretty clear where the infection comes from, the (formerly) Protestant and RC West, not the Orthodox East. 8. If you gents would like to organize a debate, I'd be happy to help round up our team. @JimJatras on X 9. Come and see....
EO here. I enjoyed your honest dialogue. My only comment would be that you have a similar challenge that EO has in America. Your project is a minority within protestantism but you claim a unity of protestantism at large. EO is a minority and knows it's minority status in America. You have a mission to convert your fellow Protestants to see the fulfillment of your vision.
@48:50 - in Orthodoxy you can also do a service with just your two bros in the middle of the woods, don’t need a Priest etc etc…I think its called Typika
All Protestantism gave me was an intense faith crisis that almost made me quit being a Christian. Unfortunately for others who don’t come across orthodoxy, they don’t have safe arms to run to. They become atheists or join the occult. Protestantism is an atheism factory. My faith has never been stronger in my life than since I began inquiring into orthodoxy. By Gods grace I was chrismated this December and am looking forward to a life of spiritual growth in the true church
This is probably the best argument for orthodoxy that I've ever heard. "Orthodoxy isn't American, it can't thrive here." Yeah, that's kinda the point. Have you seen Ameican protestant culture lately? American culture has failed. We are seeking the culture of the Kingdom, not the world. We reject the world. Edit: let me put the "masculine" issue to bed-Orthodoxy is metal AF. Our God is metal. We are demon slayers by God's grace. Our Savior suffered a horrific death for our salvation, and he invites us to suffer the death of ourselves with him. He invites us to be true men, to suffer and to struggle and to attain to the unity of the faith that is rejected by the world. Glory be to God!
@michaellopez4358 The culture of America built the greatest civilization by many metrics in the history of mankind. It did this while it was overwhemlingly protestant Chrstian. It's as we've gotten away from what we were built on that things started going wrong. The further away we get, the worse it gets. This is the undeniable and objective truth. There is no Orthodox based society that can remotely rival what this country was. I don't think Christians should constantly fight with each other, it's very dumb. But what you said is so asinine that it must have some reality shed on it.
For all the reasons mentioned my family was baptized in EO. I looked everywhere for the hymnal singing church with a fire breathing pastor. I was drawn to that from my childhood however they have been completely dismantled. I pray you get back to hard core Protestantism .
To their credit, they do understand that all protestants are closer to Roman Catholicism than either are to Eastern Orthodoxy, which is more perceptive than most protestants or Roman Catholics.
How can they? They don’t even understand their own philosophical and epistemological grounding. Their entire ideology is predicated on nominalism, rationalism, intellectualism (that is, intellect and its conclusions as an idol), and fallacious argumentation (quite often circular reasoning, incredulity, and begging the question). They willfully choose to be so confident that what they believe is right (strong epistemology be damned) that they lack the humility to even ask the simple and profound question, “What if THEY are right and I am the one misled?” Those who do ask this question with all sincerity and humility ultimately become Orthodox. Which is why good, intellectually honest, and struggling men are finding their way into Orthodoxy.
As a former protestant, here's how I got where I ended up: 1990 - I am born into an Anabaptist family, attending a Baptist church in Washington. 2002 - Church received a new pastor, weekly communion moved to once a quarter, hymnals replaced with projectors, piano and organ replaced with drums and guitar and "praise music", responsive readings of scripture- gone, Nicene creed recitation- gone, chanting the psalter- gone, and the sermon went from being a small portion of the service to being the main event. 2008 - All the changes made, to attract the youth, did not attract youth and instead made the young people already in the church, including myself, view the church service as pointless. 3 annoying songs, a sermon of shallow and cringy allegories catered to sheltered middle class yuppies, and no desire to approach ideas akin to the deep personal suffering of my life that was filled with death. 2015 - I walked into an American Orthodox church on a whim because I was so exhausted of the banality of my local church. I was stunned. It was both nothing like anything I had seen, but also had that same reverence and humility that I remembered from the church of my childhood. I did not trust icons, I didn't pray to saints, I didn't believe in infant baptism, but I found everything the protestant church had robbed from me by changing to appeal to modern consumerism. 2019 - I made an earnest attempt to find that deep spiritual teaching and reverent worship that I remembered in my childhood and I had briefly found in that Orthodox church. I went to the Presbyterian church, I went to the Lutheran church, I went to the Southern Baptist church and I went to the Anglican church, but by the time I had gotten there, I knew, as soon as I lived close enough to an Orthodox church, I was going to be home. 2024 - I was received into the Orthodox church, along with twenty other former protestants, a few Roman Catholics, an ex-muslim, and several former satanists and atheists. I am confident my children and grandchildren will have the same church experience I do now. There's nothing stopping the protestant church from a continuous spiral of modernization. The Orthodox church asks something of us. She asks us to deny ourselves. She asks us to be uncomfortable. She asks us to improve through confession and penance. She asks us to submit to her hierarchs. And in her part, she doesn't perceptively change, she doesn't have the mechanism to change. She takes care of us from birth through our death and beyond, and she provides us with 2000 years of saints and holy writings that we can learn and grow from on an endless journey. We don't have concerns about how to interpret scripture, because it all has already been interpreted by saints much wiser and much closer to Christ and the apostles than anyone alive today.
Instead of gathering 3 guys together who frankly dont understand a topic and wasting two hours, I suggest publicly speaking with pastors in the Eastern church to engage them first.
I visited a Greek Orthodox Church last month. There was not even standing room. Families were outside sitting in the grass listening to the liturgy which we could hear from speakers. One note is that they were not a warm body people. No one approached to welcome me. No handshakes, no good mornings. The building was beautiful though. 😂
Some parishes do better than others with regard to greeting and welcoming visitors. Our bishop and priests always ask if there are any visitors to raise their hand, introduce themselves, and invite them to stay for lunch to mingle and talk. In my experience (though I know there are exceptions), the Greek jurisdiction (GOARCH) are generally not good at this unfortunately. I’d say it’s a new tradition that developed over the 20th century because of how and why many of these parishes came into existence in the first place. But with the massive influx of converts, there is a much greater willingness and joy to do things which will open up the parish more and make visitors and inquirers feel more welcome. That said, I’d still say there probably won’t be anything even close to Protestant greeters because the point of worship is worship and reflection. Fellowship and getting to know people is for outside of the service.
I belong to a GOARCH parish. I emailed the parish priest and he asked me to come in for a meet and greet with him. We had a lengthy conversation, just him and I. He made me feel welcome and about 18 months late my son and I were officially brought into the church the Baptism and Chrismation.
11:27 There is no stage. I didn’t even know what the priests and deacons looked like because their back was facing us or they were behind the iconostasis most of the liturgy. Joel will “preach” at people for an hour. Orthodoxy is about Christ, not man
I am a former evangelical missionary for 5 years, helped with our local Acts 29 church planting efforts, etc. This year I will be brought into the Orthodox Church along with my 3 children and wife. This was a multi-year journey of studying history, praying, struggling, etc. Not sure what he means by a "fad" in this case. Not to mention the catechumen process is typically one year at least. A fad is typically described as something taking place quickly and is short-lived. Those coming into the Orthodox church are doing so sincerely, with great effort and in a slow manner with careful study and prayer, unlike the "easy believe-ism" of many non-denom mega churches.
It is a fad. The vast majority are attracted to the church because of the smells and bells and traditions. Not what they actually believe. You will end up focusing on your own performance instead of keeping your eyes fixated on Christ, and you have zero assurance. At least according to official orthodox teaching.
@@KnightFel you say “the vast majority…” how do you know this? What is your evidence for this? Certainly not the case for myself and those coming into the church around me.
Since when is popularity a metric of how true something is? An appeal to popularity is hardly a convincing argument for what is true, in fact, it’s often the opposite. The truth is, you can justify almost anything with this kind of binary thinking. Just because something is popular, doesn’t make it true. Just because something isn’t popular, also doesn’t make it true. God gave us what is true. Funny how people will do anything but look to Him.
@KnightFel A couple thousand year fad I guess, sure beats the hula hoop and fidget spinner. As for "assurance" is that how you choose a belief system, what makes you feel most assured? Does what's true even come into it? What if the truth is hard and requires effort and not always as immediately comfy? Go to a grappling gym if you want to be immediately disabused of your assurance that you actually can defend yourself even a little bit. Then after some years of hard training you'll KNOW that you'll never reach complete competence... BUT you're actually miles ahead of back when it was all just theoretical and you felt most "assured" of your safety. You then have a kind of assurance that is both realistic and hard won. You'll have experienced defeat but increasingly more victory. You have a program that you can see and feel working and you know what to do from here Orthodox process of salvation is like this. It's an ongoing program of healing (the literal meaning of salvation anyway) that leads you ever upward
All I ask of these new converts (as someone whose parents converted in the 90s) is to please remember that Orthodoxy is a way of life and that instead of being an Orthobro/ gal swept away by the online Orthotrad community realize that the REAL Orthodox Christian is one who carries their ragged cross through the mud not with theology but humility, sacrifice, and love for friend and enemy alike. I am in this same camp as well, we all are if we call ourselves Orthodox Christians. May we live our lives like St. Katherine, St. Moses the Black, the Sebastopol martyrs, and countless others showed by example❤☦️ Edit: I'm not saying that knowing theology isn't important, it is, but I'm seeing a lot more folks who know their canons and not the shut ins ( & many others in need) we need to serve.
Amen. Christianity is Incarnational. You cannot take the Eucharist virtually. St Basil's theology is important, but so are his homilies, the ones to the people on how to Live the theology he teaches, to serve their neighbors and aid the poor and be temperate and humble.
'...is one who carries their ragged cross through the mud not with theology but humility etc'. Today's American has become so contemporary that it has become hipster on one side and legalistic on the other side. I am exploring EO myself at the age of 55 because of the vacuum of evangelicalism and protestantism.
While I am a Traditional Catholic, what you say is not dissimilar from what I see on my side. One can only develop a true "sense of the Faith" (Sensus Fidelium) via carrying one's cross --> Joyfully. Peace🙏🙏🙏
I’m also hearing about folks who tried Eastern Orthodoxy and left back to a reformed Christian church. It is a both ways. Right now our churches are struggling because of the fruit of feminism. EO seems like the right choice. Please do your research on EO and understand that much of the dogmas are not part of the early century church. The necessity of icons for salvation, the requirement of Mary for prayers in salvation, sacraments as a work for salvation. Theses are just a few. Do your research. I was actually saved out of EO and am a reformed Christian. Remember that Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice and they follow me”. Scripture is the sole basis and truth about Jesus Christ and salvation. Questions for the EO Good enough? Are you good enough to keep yourself saved? Repentance: If your salvation is dependent, in part, upon your ability to repent of your sins, what do you do with those since you have not repented of because you don’t know about them? Lose salvation? Sin is breaking the Law of God (1 John 3:4). Jesus bore our sins in his body (1 Pet. 2:24) and made a legal (Lawful, according to scripture) atoning sacrifice (John 19:30) where he canceled our sin debt (Col. 2:14). So, if every single sin and sin debt you’ve ever committed has been canceled, then how is it possible for you to lose your salvation since there are no sins left that can be held against you? Ask Jesus to forgive you: Would you pray and ask Jesus to forgive you of all of your sins and put all your trust and hope in Him alone? If you do, would you be forgiven of all your sins? If not, why won’t you pray and ask Jesus to forgive you of all your sins? Regarding how our sins are forgiven. Jesus is God in the flesh (John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9). Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18). Jesus forgives sins (Luke 5:20; 7:48). Jesus tells us to pray to him (John 14:14). Questions about forgiveness. 1) If we pray to Jesus and ask him to forgive us of all of our sins, will he forgive us or will he withhold his forgiveness? 2) If he withholds his forgiveness, why would he do that if we are coming to him for forgiveness? 3) If all of our sins are forgiven, then why do we need a priest to forgive us of our sins? 4) Have you ever prayed to Jesus and asked him to forgive you of all your sins? If not, why not? Questions for Eastern Orthodox People Can you produce an infallible list of the church fathers? Can you produce an infallible list of authentic writings of the church fathers? Can you please quote any church fathers who venerated angels for me? Can you please quote any church fathers who venerated saints for me? Can you please quote any church fathers who venerated icons for me? How do you know which Church Fathers are the right ones? We are saved by grace alone through faith alone: “being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,” ( 3:24). “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law,” ( 3:28). “For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” ( 4:3). “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,” ( 4:5). “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,” ( 5:1). “Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him,” ( 5:9). “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved,” ( 10:9). “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace,” ( 11:6). “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,” ( 2:8). “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,” (Titus 3:5).
I’m sorry you had a bad experience and likely bad catechesis. This is not the way, my friend. You took your errant assumptions/presuppositions with you into Orthodoxy (like Joshua Schooping for example) and instead of switching your mind fully to the mind/phronema of the Church, you just struggled and concluded “Well this isn’t adding up with what I know.” I’d argue that based on everything you said here, there is a lot you think you know that you really don’t, and that is clouding your ability to rightly discern why Orthodoxy is true and why this move into the fullness of the faith is so significant.
@@aaronwolf4211”I’m sorry you’re an ignoramus, here, let me school you”. The ARROGANCE. Yes. The ONLY REASON someone isn’t EO is because they’re “just so ignorant, bless their heart”.
@@MrMfloor The Church gave you the canon of Scripture in the first place (centuries after Christ and the Apostles, it should be noted). Christ established not a book, not a canon of "approved" books, but a Church guided by the Holy Spirit into all Truth, and He gave that Church into the care of the Apostles who then passed the Church and its teachings onto the next generation and the next generation, etc., all of whom in all places, all times, and all languages and ethnicities touched by the Gospel, consistently taught and maintained those teachings. It was in fact the very teachings, hymns, and lexicons of the Living Body of the Church that determined the canon of Scripture in the first place. You cannot rightly and fully understand the Bible without the Church and the teachings of Christ safeguarded within. As St. Philip the Apostle said to the Ethiopian, "Knowest what thou readest?"...and what did he say in response? "How can I unless a man teach me?" Divine revelation doesn't start with the written word of text we call the Bible. It came about through the Person of the God-man Jesus Christ and is passed on via His Living Body on earth, the Church, maintained in its fullness and purity by the canonical Eastern Orthodox Church to this very day. And the gates of hell will NEVER overtake Her.
Literally copy and paste your argument into Chatgpt and ask it to rate each individual critique you gave 1-1000.. I'd be curious to see your scores. However, a common theme is that you have a bunch of misunderstandings. If AI knows more than you about Orthodoxy, you should be careful on critiquing it. Chatgpt is common knowledge (1st page of google type stuff, really) with a fancy way of wording it. COTEL has a live stream reviewing this video, you should watch it, he clears up quite a few of the misunderstandings.
And FYI, if you feel deadness in the presence of God and the fullness of His Truth, that is a reflection of YOU and YOUR spiritual state. Just like many who saw Christ work miracles right in front of them walked away because they wanted a faith that suited them, their intellect, and their emotions rather than a Faith that transforms and transfigures them. But to do that, one requires a humble and open heart.
I want to thank you so much Joel and team for this video. It is terrific confirmation that my family and I no longer need to be Protestants and need to seek the truth of Orthodoxy.
🤣🤣 “Yea let’s ONLY interview the guy who already agrees with us because he wouldn’t let go of his errant beliefs when he became Orthodox and that ultimately drove him out of the Church!” Make it make sense. There’s literally dozens of priests, monks, and laity who were full on Bible-believing evangelicals for years and sometimes even decades (many themselves having been pastors and seminarians) who could be interviewed face-to-face to address these matters. But you all refuse. Because you refuse face the fact that all of these things you believe and the way you have always believed them just might in fact be WRONG. Want to prove Orthodoxy false? DEBATE ACTIVE AND STUDIED ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS.
From my own journey, EO hasn't rejected the spiritual as so much of protestantism has. In the effort to not be labeled Gnostic, the church would seem to have largely swung to be nearly agnostic.
No it won't. Pastors in skinny jeans doing bootleg Ted talks might but the masculine Reformed church has also been growing a lot recently, thanks be to God. But we all need to stop trying to fight each other and focus on defeating actual evil together. Brother wars are a trap.
You guys are all too often the embodiment of the “no true Scotsman” fallacy. Frankly, I’m tired of all the arguing as to who has the better Christian clique. I love Christ. All I want is Him. Man is far more occupied in arguing who’s right and who Jesus loves most. Funny, Jesus addresses this directly in scripture, but I guess since a “church father” or famous pastor hasn’t said it then it didn’t happen. So unbelievably sick of it all.
@@genuineimitation8799 It's not a "No true Scotsman" fallacy if the claims themselves are assessed by their own merits. It would be fallacious if that was the basis of our entire argument. Which it is not. Same thing with the accusations of "anachronistic fallacy". Orthodoxy is not true just because it is "old". It is old and therefore its claims should be taken more seriously than you and many evangelicals are willing to consider.
We all need to stop falling into the endless trap of trying to triumph against other Christians, and focus on the true enemies. Or else none of us will triumph.
I’ve alway enjoyed this show but this was very childish. You call orthodox gay but yet Protestantism has trans priests and is controlled by women. 😅Feminism only continues in this country because it thrives in the evangelical church. I cringe in every evangelical church I’ve gone to relied on self study men’s groups and RUclips videos. Fact evangelical falling away from Christ has filled my studying. I’ve NEVER been spiritually filled in a Protestant church seen out of childhood. Protestants can hardly ever answer questions yet I read about the saints and I see the evidence of Christ. St Augustine writings saved me from my own mind. You’ve failed to understand the heart of why men have walked away. You got some points but you’ve left them to die alone. And you mock them shame them without giving them tools to help them with. Men are looking for a well to drink and most church’s in America so many aren’t fit to drink. The “America” you speak of is dead your generation is in denial to see it. The pride in Americanism is a sin and the down fall of the legacy our forefathers gave us.
The first time I stepped into an Eastern Orthodox Divine liturgy felt like the first time I went to church. I'm 50 years old and grew up in protestant churches my whole life and all it did was make me an atheist. My family is perfectly fine with their protestant churches, but for me, the Eastern Orthodox is where I finally found the Holy Spirit. As a Christian, I believe we need to let the Holy Spirit guide us into what is truth for each and every one of us seeking Christ. I don't like the condemnation of other Christians coming from all sides. I hope we are all correct.
This is exactly what they talked about - you weren’t motivated by transcendent doctrine or God’s authoritative scriptures. You weren’t motivated by a mystical pseudo-experience.
I could see that, and I'm not trying to convert you, I don't really care if you believe exactly what I do. We need to unite against common enemies instead of fight with each other. But I will say I had a similar experience with a conservative, reformed church after growing up and only knowing the sad, non-denominational, hollow mess that is modern forms of protestantism. I didn't know there was another option. But the liturgy, the singing of psalms, the tradition, the teaching, the sacraments, etc and how that affects the culture of the church and the ppl in it. It's a whole different thing. I love to know that we worship, believe and live how the people that built my country (the United States) did when it was actually great.
@@johnathanl8396 I was motivated to become a Christian because I wanted to believe it was true. It's not an easier softer church path to walk, but it holds all truth.
Someone else has probably already mentioned it, but Jon Harris (conversations that matter) did a show on The Virtue of Protestantism the other day. He touched on stats re denomination and voting patterns and it was very interesting.
I left the Protestant church many years ago. Joel is wrong on Penal Substitutionary Atonement. PSA is NOT the Gospel. The gospel is the death and resurrection of Christ for our sins (1 Cor 15). Believing in a specific atonement model is not necessary for salvation. If someone believes in ransom theory or penal satisfactory atonement, they are no less saved. STOP dividing the body of Christ over unimportant issues!!
The orthodox position makes no sense. Okay, Christ died and resurrected. Now what? What are YOU supposed to do? Hopefully become holy enough and transfigured to make to heaven? Have fun with icons and toll houses. Your theology is woefully unbiblical.
@@KnightFel The Orthodox (and Catholic) answer is to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2). Also, toll houses are not official orthodox theology but merely speculation.
@@KnightFel What are you supposed to do? Believe, repent, confess, be baptized, and begin the process of purification of your soul so that YOU can begin actively illuminating, healing, and restoring all of creation. THAT is how you save souls. Not through propositional assertions of some later eschaton, for the eschaton begins NOW. Btw, I hope you never have to experience the toll houses. It's quite something to have a near death experience and have demons attempt to pull your soul from your body into eternal darkness as they lay claim over it for unrepentant sin. Not something I would ever be brave enough to mock. Lord have mercy on me.
The obvious and right answer can be traced all the way back to the time of the German Reformation, when Luther, and other early reformers warned against "throwing the baby out with the bath water." That is, Luther cautioned against the zeal of who he derisively referred to as the "enthusiasts," who in their anti-Rome fervor were throwing away the liturgy, the ceremony, the ancient creeds and were even smashing artwork and breaking stained glass-even that which accurately depicted Biblical themes. This very fervor continues today with the modern church ignoring and even actively deriding centuries of accumulated spirituality in favor of a bland, lifeless, and feminized no-service. Or, in an effort to recover the vibrancy of ancient worship, fall into a crazed hyper-spirituality as seen in the Pentecostal movement, ignoring Paul's warning that God is not a God of confusion. Additionally, we Protestants have forgotten another of the first Reformers admonishments to always be reforming. To remember humbly that we are sinners, who get things wrong, ever in zeal for our Lord. There is deep meaning behind the phrase "iron sharpens iron." There needs to be a new ecumenism centered on the Five Solas and a full trust in the absolute uncompromising faith that Scripture is complete, inherent, sufficient, and true.
@@DiMacky24 I cannot be sure exactly your point. Nevertheless, the failure of man not Scripture is engenders the formation of denominations. All denominations were started by men in their zeal to serve God. But for one reason or another they chose to overlook some or all of Scripture in support of there peculiar theologies. This takes nothing from Sola Scriptura but simply throws a spotlight on man and his sinful heart.
@@jackuber7358 If Protestants are set on being Protestant, they should all be conservative confessional Lutherans. Lutherans have a different views on tradition, sacraments, liturgical worship, than the reformed, Lutheran are not in agreement with the reformed on Christology, etc. Lutherans don’t necessarily define the “sola’s” the same, etc.
@@jackuber7358 If Protestants are set on being Protestant, they should all be conservative confessional Lutherans. Lutherans have a different view on tradition, sacraments, ...than the reformed, Lutheran are not in agreement with the reformed on Christology, etc. Lutherans don't necessarily define the sola's the same, etc.
The Judeo-protestant church has told those on the far right that they’re not welcome so they’re going elsewhere and orthodox music is enchanting. I’m reformed, but I’m sure I’ll be driven out.
Well, you are welcome, but understand that part of becoming Orthodox is losing the right and left and cleaving to the position of the church, which you will find disagrees and agrees with aspects of both sides of the political paradigm. I have seen skinheads, zionists and communists join the church and be shaped into brothers and sisters.
@@DiMacky24I was just venturing a guess as to why some are going Orthodox. I do enjoy the chants though. Brother Nathaniel has probably helped recruitment numbers as well.
Just to add also: during Covid my Greek Orthodox brother was angry that his church was closed. When they opened they were required to wear masks. My brother was a little angry and frustrated.
Once a slave always a slave. They lick the bootheels of the muslims in 1453 and they gave their pinch of incense to the commies from 1917-1991. They now have the nerve to act like they weren't relying on protestants not the worthless Catholics to bail them out. The godless horde wasn't held off by the Pope and his divisions and lack of nukes.
You should interview father stephen d young, he's a scholars scholar and a former protestant himself so extremely conversant with the issues you raise and the responses to them. He has a popular and excellent podcast "Lord of Spirits" covering some aspects of scripture that you guys also talk about (ex nephilim, rabbinic judaism) Other recommendation might be father john whiteford (also in texas like you guys) who is active on twitter and very aware of the new right, he's pretty based even by the high standards of Orthodoxy. He does interviews Last father Josiah Trenham, who was previously reformed (in fact attended reformed seminary) and has a strong online presence and does lots of interviews.
I live in an Orthodox country, and the truth is that not 3% of the people (nearly all of whom are baptized, claim Orthodoxy, and keep their family's saint day) are genuine Christians in any sense of the word. They are completely ignorant of the Bible, foul mouthed, dressed in modern Western clothing, etc. Just because some rightfully disgruntled Protestant Evangelicals got mezmerized by the chanting, foreign language rituals, and incense doesn't give us any reason to take them particularly seriously... Even if they try to flood the comments section with flamboyant testimonies. It's tough to even find a serious EO theological writing. And, no, those massive volumes of "miracles" experienced by monks in monasteries don't count as theology.
In my estimation, the biggest problem and thus the best argument against sola scriptura is that it makes no sense to call a written text infallible. The information contained therein and its right use is infallible, but using the term to describe scripture prior to any act of interpretation makes no sense. Infallibility belongs to an interpreter, and the Holy Spirit is its source. For sola scriptura to work as you’ve defined it here, one must either have an infallible method of interpretation (what I take you to be arguing for here in implying that individuals or groups have the ability to arrive at infallible interpretations of scripture themselves) or one must be protected by the Holy Spirit in their interpretation of scripture. It’s the latter sense in which the Eastern Orthodox Church understands itself as the guardian of the deposit of faith. You can object and say it puts a human authority above scripture, yet by not doing so, you put your own authority as an interpreter or the authority of some human method you put to use above it by the necessity of hermeneutics in coming to any understanding. Sola scriptura remains a great principle for fostering factions and divisions.
Exactly. Which is precisely what Protestants do. Orthodoxy is a consistently taught and maintained deposit of faith that has stood the test of time for 2,000 years despite rampant persecution, heresies, war, and other conflicts. Yet, just in the 20th century alone, Protestant group have exponentially splintered over their interpretations of Scripture and constantly find themselves reinventing the theological wheel every 20-30 years. I’ve seen it play out my whole life. Scripture is infallible and so is the Church (Christ’s Mystical Living Body) who gave us the Scriptures and safeguards the CORRECT (that is literally, ORTHODOX) understanding and interpretation of Scripture. Any interpretation or group who holds an interpretation outside of the historical canonical of the Church as it has always been and has always taught, is placing their own authority and theological relativism over that of Christ, His Body the Church, and His as expressed in both Holy Scripture and Tradition (“word and epistle”).
Considering how effeminate all three men on this show are, you're not making a good argument (at least visually) for protestantism. Your cope is on par with liberal whining.
I think the strength of Orthodoxy is the weakness of the Mainlines. Established Reformed, Lutheran, Episcopalian Churches are the natural home for those converting to Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism here in America.
the re-discovery of real Protestantism ie. Reformed (Presbyterian, Continental), Anglican and Lutheran is what is needed in the modern evangelical world. mainstream evangelicalism is disconnected from historical Christianity.
Confessional Lutherans would say Presbyterianism, Reformed Baptist, evangelicalism needs to die. They would also say at least the Orthodox have the sacrament.
@@P-el4zd "reformed" baptists aren't reformed. confessional lutherans and confessional reformed are twins of the reformation and mutually respect and converse with each other. Reformed and Lutheran are much closer theologically than Lutheran and EO. Blessings.
@@reformedaussie Have you read the book of Concord? They don’t exactly speak highly of the reformed. Aegidius Hunnius (every Lutheran should know that name) has a great little book title- the Judaizing Calvin
@@reformedaussie Have you read the book of Concord? They don’t exactly speak highly of the reformed. Aegidius Hunnius (every Lutheran should know that name) has a great little book title- the J….’zing Calvin
@@reformedaussie Have you read the book of Concord? They don’t exactly speak highly of the reformed. Aegidius Hunnius (every Lutheran should know that name) has a great little book title- on Calvin.
32:35 Pastor Chase is exactly right The Orthodox Church isn’t an optional denomination it’s the church. One of the big reasons people are leaving Protestantism is because the way theology is done is so different.
Another great program. Besides the points about modern protestantism being perverted by feminism, it has also been perverted by man-centeredness. The liturgical, RC and Orthodox churches are God centered.
@@cosmictreason2242 What's with your harping on "emotional"? Where do you see emotionalism in the comments? Just as we reject rationalism as a fallible guide to truth, we reject emotionalism. Where in Orthodox services do you see people swaying back and forth, "holy laughter," barking and other detritus of what Protestantism has turned into in this country? That's not us.
Little off topic, but would be interested in a podcast on house churches. Not necessarily on their legitimacy, but if you see trends of protestants gravitating towards them (maybe over the next 10-15 years). The reason I ask is because in the past year my feeds have been getting a lot of content in regard to them. They do have some solid arguments for them, including historical (first couple of centuries), as well as financial as many traditional churches lose membership and/or struggle financially (and many people get stretched thinner financially in their personal lives due to economic conditions). No mortgage, bills/debts, paid staff, paid pastor could be optional depending on the arrangement (and likely size of the church); more % of giving could be used to meet needs. Also, strong arguments for the engagement and intimacy/fellowship of the body, pretty hard to stay unnoticed/slip out. For the record, I am a member of a Non-denominational (reformed baptist in practice) independent church (teaching elder attended Masters Seminary); and have no plans to leave or to go to a house church. Just seems like there is a possibility this may be an emerging trend into the future, kinda like Protestants going RC and EO currently is. Before I moved to my current location, our family was part of a home group (not church sanctioned, but they knew of it and were fine with it) at our previous church. Several deacons from the church (southern Baptist, didn’t have “elders,” just pastoral staff and deacons) started and led the group. We met every Thursday for 5 years; ate a meal, sang, prayed, and went through a book of the Bible expostionaly. The teaching was led by one the deacons in rotation, but was a discussion type format. None of them had a seminary degree at the time (but a couple were in the process though none planned to enter FT ministry), and would also preach at the Church some on Wed. Nights. The kids would stay in the basement, and the wives would rotate watching them and giving a lesson. I did like the environment and it was a really instrumental time in our families growth, and we grew extremely close with the families in that home group.
1:10:45 This is such a shallow and disingenuous argument. If there were an Irish Catholic or a Greek Orthodox who wanted to join Pastor Chase’s church would he tell them “No, you oughta stick with the faith of your ancestors.”? Of course he wouldn’t.
@ how is that anti Biblical, I’m pretty sure other Protestants believe this too. Calvinism is not all of Protestantism, you don’t get to claim the whole movement, they also use the Bible to support their belief.
Was just received into EO on the eve of theophany. I have found the true faith. It’s not an opinion. Your answer to keep people in seats is more reforms. Just keep reforming. We will stay the same. Pre denominational. DPH did a nice breakdown of this vid. Glory to Jesus Christ.
53:00 there is an onus put on Orthodox Christians to live the Christian life. Before communion the priest says all Orthodox are welcome to partake if they’ve prepared themselves through prayer, fasting, almsgiving and recent confession.
@@orthochristosyou don’t think there were Christians 2000 years ago who believed in salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone? I don’t think you know history. lol try reading Paul’s epistles.
@@jackshadow325 That would only make sense if suddenly men started to be well cared for by the other churches... I don't see that change happening quickly.
Prima Scriptura (what the E.O. hold to) is essentially the same thing as Sola Scriptura without exclusvely putting tradition on the back burner or outright rejecting it like so many (not all) Protestants do. I say this as a Protestant.
Prima Scriptura should be adjacent with Prima Tradition. Perhaps the 5 solas should add Tradition to it instead of exclusvely rejecting it through its implications.
40:47 At our Orthodox church we have 60 catechumens right now most come from Protestant churches but quite a few come from the Catholic Church. But also in Houston we have good Catholic churches.
New Covenant Whole Gospel: How many modern Christians cannot honestly answer the questions below? Who is the King of Israel in John 1:49? Is the King of Israel now the Head of the Church, and are we His Body? Who is the “son” that is the “heir” to the land in Matthew 21:37-43? Why did God allow the Romans to destroy the Old Covenant temple and the Old Covenant city, about 40 years after His Son fulfilled the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 in blood at Calvary? What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. God is not now a “racist”. He has extended His love to all races of people through the New Covenant fulfilled by His Son’s blood at Calvary. The Apostle Paul warned against using “genealogies” in our faith in 1 Tim. 1:4, and Titus 3:9. If the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20 and the Old Covenant is "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13, why would any Christian believe God is going back to the Old Covenant system during a future time period? What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8, 3:16? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. Watch the RUclips videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.
Bunch of emotional appeals from orthobros in the comments, just like the arguments for Catholicism. If there's one thing that guarantees it's not the truth, that is it.
52:45 Over the last couple of years I’ve lost ~80 pounds. I don’t understand the science of nutrition or the science behind the exercise but if I do what the nutritionists and the trainer says it works and I lose weight. If I wanted to I could learn all kinds of interesting things about diet and the way the body works. It’s similar with Orthodox life, if you just go to church say your prayers and love your neighbor you’ll be saved. But if you want to learn about the councils and iconography and ecclesiology and symbology it’s all there for you.
It’s amazing what people can come up with in their own little vacuum. Hey guys, I did my MDiv work at GCTS. Where did you go to school? Send back your diploma. They did a horrible job. Also - attend Divine Liturgy the next time you cancel Sunday services because you need a holiday break. Then maybe you’ll start to understand why even clergy converts. Further - do you homework before you assert that converts aren’t doing theirs. 😂 Lastly, only because I’m not watching anymore - marketing research? I thought you were pastors. You aren’t running businesses. Your head is in the wrong place, guys.
Young men are going to eastern orthodoxy because this video spent two hours not only not actually saying anything of substance, But because none of you have actually done the research and intellectual footwork (especially ironic since the reformed tradition prides itself on its perceived rationality) necessary, to even understand why young men find its apologetics infinitely more convincing. There has never been a more abundant amount of orthodox catechetical and educational material, but oh well, it who cares right? It’s only gonna grow in abundance in the English speaking west
Joel is so lost and outright lying in this. Just exposed himself as completely uneducated on the issue and has no room to talk. Nice try but you are the reason people are leaving for Holy Orthodoxy and Christ's actual church unchanged for 2000 years now.
You really should take more time studying Orthodoxy before critiquing it. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. One straw man after another filled in with speculations.
I’ve alway enjoyed this show but this was very childish. You call orthodox gay but yet Protestantism has trans priests and is controlled by women. 😅Feminism only continues in this country because it thrives in the evangelical church. I cringe in every evangelical church I’ve gone to relied on self study men’s groups and RUclips videos. Fact evangelical falling away from Christ has filled my studying. I’ve NEVER been spiritually filled in a Protestant church seen out of childhood. Protestants can hardly ever answer questions yet I read about the saints and I see the evidence of Christ. St Augustine writings saved me from my own mind. You’ve failed to understand the heart of why men have walked away. You got some points but you’ve left them to die alone. And you mock them shame them without giving them tools to help them with. Men are looking for a well to drink and most church’s in America so many aren’t fit to drink. The “America” you speak of is dead your generation is in denial to see it. The pride in Americanism is a sin and the down fall of the legacy our forefathers gave us.
The rcc has gheis, those churches which are not rcc with gheus are literally not Protestant at all, they are nonchristian, which is why they are ecumenical
bro - saying that the Jesus prayer is an “incantation” in order to “veg out” is one of the wildest things I think I have ever had the hilarious displeasure of encountering in my entire life
Why I'm leaving Protestantism for Orthodoxy. First reason, I started reading the writings of the Church Fathers. Very very quickly I found these men believed things I was raised to believe were "later unbiblical additions by Rome." Real Presence in the Eucharist. Bishops. Second, the theology. The completely different view of Original Sin. Theosis. The theology of Iconography. Third, the beauty. I don't walk into a large room with four bare walls and a plain cross behind a pulpit. I see beautiful images of Christ, the Theotokos, and the Saints. The beauty of the service itself. The service also made me realize what real worship actually is, and it's something the laypeople participate in. I don't passively sit in a pew and listen to a soft rock concert followed by a Ted Talk on Scripture. I stand in the presence of Christ and cross myself and bow throughout. I actually take part in the worship. When I interact with my priest I feel the actual authority he holds that I never felt when interacting with any Protestant pastor. Everything about it just fills me with knowing this is The Truth. The deep theology makes way more sense to me over Protestant and Catholic theology and satisfies me intellectually. The services and experience satisfy me spiritually. I absolutely love Orthodoxy.
While it's less odious than the Mary worshippers my main issue is it got blow out by the commies and basically did every sin imaginable to stay alive under the Soviets. Also it's "Rome" sits under the Muslims and a vast majority of it's old territory is now Turkey.
While I get the pathetic catholic argument that because one so called "protestant" church has trannies or gays in it how that somehow equates to every sect of Protestantism they mostly argue that way while knowing that's not how Protestantism works, as though all being united under Captain Queer in Rome is any better. But the Orthodox make the same argument and worse actually stay in communion with the Catholics while it was overwhelmingly the Protestantism who bailed their asses out during the Cold War. It wasn't Italy, Spain, or Latin America that held the godless hordes back it was the US and UK mostly.
So while I'm glad Russia is pushing back against the homosexuals in the Orthodox faith they also need to free Constantinople and frankly most of the West wouldn't give two craps about the Turks being wiped out seeing how the muslims bites the hand that feeds.
Why I’m staying Protestant and not converting to Orthodox:
1. The Bible is more ancient and clear than the “Church Fathers”
2. Icon veneration is a late innovation and flirts with idolatry.
3. I’m spiritually motivated by the Gospel of Christ and not pretty church buildings.
@@johnathanl8396
1. The "Church Fathers" Made the bible
2. Christians have always made/used Icons and was approved in the 2nd Nicene Council
3. You should be! but not all Orthodox church buildings are pretty ( P.S. its not the building people are leaving Protestantism! Its the Theology)
@@johnathanl8396 more ancient than the apostles and Christ?? Bold claim
@@johnathanl8396
1. Who put the bible together?
2. Lol
3. Not mutually exclusive
The arrogance and pridefulness that this topic is approached with is a great testimony for the Orthodox faith! These guys clearly have no idea why men are converting to Orthodoxy. It is much deeper than beards or what appears to be masculine or based. They are finding the ancient faith and the truth in Orthodoxy, and are giving their lives to it!
May God lead many more to the Holy Orthodox faith!
I hope you aren’t so blind. I’ve actually seen more arrogance and condescension in EO and RC (especially RC, it’s really bad) than most others. EO is growing because people are looking for what they WANT. They aren’t studying deep theology and coming to the “truth of EO”. They’re converting because of how they feel. The vast, vast majority have NOT studied the early church fathers, especially ante-nicene. There’s a decent gap both theologically and in time. Iconodulia wasn’t part of the church officially until the second Nicene council in the 700’s AD. Clement of Alexandria in particular had a fair amount to say in regard to iconodulia. Same with Eusebius, Origen and Methodius. And you cannot argue “not all church fathers agreed”, because then what is your unifying authority? Scripture? How? EO holds scripture in equal authority with tradition, whether that’s “church fathers” or otherwise. Scripture itself is almost mute on iconodulia except for of course the commandments against false idols. IMO, most “church” tradition, EO, RC or Protestant has more to do with what man wants and feels is right than what God actually says. But, that is just my opinion and am open to being (and probably am) wrong.
Extremely well said! Glory to God!
Wait! Reformed guys are criticizing BEARDS now? Barber trim thyself!
David Patrick Harry of Church of the Eternal Logos destroyed this video in his live stream. The question asked at the beginning of the show "Why isn't what we're doing working?" And then you gave a hundred examples in the show. Strawmanning Orthodoxy is only Streisand effecting the Faith to your audience. Keep it up fellas 🙏🏻☦️
Just watched this 🔥
@@slowboywhiteboardv4 his response video is well worth checking out
I left Protestantism because the doctrine makes no sense....
3 of the 5 catechumens in our last class were former Roman Catholics. 5 of the 6 in the current catechumen class are former Protestants...
It makes less sense to me to think a church that bowed to communists and muslims has the right path. They might be getting there now but walking hand in hand with Captain Queer in Rome the same church who allied with the muslims to do in your former empire.
The modern EO exists because of Protestantism holding the line against the godless horde and working with the EO to subvert them.
Roman pagans: “If these Christ cult followers win the day, Rome will be finished!”
Early Christians/Orthodox Christians: “Why yes, exactly. When you are baptized into Christ, the goal is not to stay the same but to become TRANSFIGURED!”
Early Christians weren’t Eastern Orthodox
@@KnightFel Yes, they were. And they most certainly were NEVER Protestant.
@@KnightFelsure bud keep telling yourself that
@KnightFel they sure weren't protestant
Amen!
As a cradle Orthodox, I'm loving this discussion. If nothing else, it will help add to the flood to the Orthodox Church.
Some random thoughts:
1. Not only do you not understand Orthodoxy, you don't really seem to understand America. The old Protestant America (which I truly loved!) is GONE. Sad, but it just is. It ain't coming back. The question is, can ANY, new America reconstitute itself with Christian content? I hope so, but let's not presume. But just as failing pagan Rome was saved but transformed by Christianity -- and remained the Roman Empire but a Christian one for another thousand years -- if God is merciful Americans still have a future. We'll see.
2. "We are Americans, we are Western, we think, Orthodoxy hath no power in these United States." So why is my parish 90 percent "ethnic" Americans, not just converts but now children and even grandchildren born in the Church? Where did all that rationalism get you?
3. No, we don't all have to "become monks" (I'm not).
4. Nor do we have to become Greeks, Russians, Serbs etc -- in fact, you're the ones making the ethnic argument, not us. Just as Orthodoxy became Greek, Russian etc in those countries, it's becoming American too.
5. "Orthodox don't have to think, just accept." To the extent that's true, we don't need to rethink core doctrines like Trinity, Incarnation etc. American Evangelicism is rife with reborn Arianism, Nestorianism, Sabellianism, etc. We don't have that problem. (See "thinking," above at 2.) BTW, Filioque is pronounced "fee-lee-OH-quay".
6. Protestants are closer in thinking to Roman Catholicism than to Orthodox. True.
7. "Ghey"? Greece? Name ONE historically Protestant country that doesn't worship the sacred rainbow flag. Corrupt Greek politicians passed ghey "marriage" to please masters in DC and Brussels. The usual suspects whooped it up that the finally snagged an Orthodox country. It's pretty clear where the infection comes from, the (formerly) Protestant and RC West, not the Orthodox East.
8. If you gents would like to organize a debate, I'd be happy to help round up our team. @JimJatras on X
9. Come and see....
EO here. I enjoyed your honest dialogue. My only comment would be that you have a similar challenge that EO has in America. Your project is a minority within protestantism but you claim a unity of protestantism at large. EO is a minority and knows it's minority status in America. You have a mission to convert your fellow Protestants to see the fulfillment of your vision.
@48:50 - in Orthodoxy you can also do a service with just your two bros in the middle of the woods, don’t need a Priest etc etc…I think its called Typika
All Protestantism gave me was an intense faith crisis that almost made me quit being a Christian.
Unfortunately for others who don’t come across orthodoxy, they don’t have safe arms to run to. They become atheists or join the occult.
Protestantism is an atheism factory. My faith has never been stronger in my life than since I began inquiring into orthodoxy. By Gods grace I was chrismated this December and am looking forward to a life of spiritual growth in the true church
Where are all the Protestants? I don’t see a single Protestant in the comments. You’re being laughed out of the room.
No we're being brigaded.
@@cosmictreason2242 Yea, because his arguments were stupid and uninformed.
This is probably the best argument for orthodoxy that I've ever heard.
"Orthodoxy isn't American, it can't thrive here."
Yeah, that's kinda the point. Have you seen Ameican protestant culture lately? American culture has failed. We are seeking the culture of the Kingdom, not the world. We reject the world.
Edit: let me put the "masculine" issue to bed-Orthodoxy is metal AF. Our God is metal. We are demon slayers by God's grace. Our Savior suffered a horrific death for our salvation, and he invites us to suffer the death of ourselves with him. He invites us to be true men, to suffer and to struggle and to attain to the unity of the faith that is rejected by the world. Glory be to God!
What kingdom? The ottoman Turks?
@michaellopez4358 The culture of America built the greatest civilization by many metrics in the history of mankind. It did this while it was overwhemlingly protestant Chrstian. It's as we've gotten away from what we were built on that things started going wrong. The further away we get, the worse it gets. This is the undeniable and objective truth. There is no Orthodox based society that can remotely rival what this country was. I don't think Christians should constantly fight with each other, it's very dumb. But what you said is so asinine that it must have some reality shed on it.
@@johnsmiff9649
The Roman Empire, actually. Lmao.
No, no. The Kingdom that has no end!
America can't thrive in America. Would rather be not aligned to something both externally bellicose and terminally ill, thanks all the same.
Kindly do not describe God as "metal AF." That is highly disrespectful.
For all the reasons mentioned my family was baptized in EO. I looked everywhere for the hymnal singing church with a fire breathing pastor. I was drawn to that from my childhood however they have been completely dismantled. I pray you get back to hard core Protestantism .
This is like reading the Pagans discussing the Early Church. No Understanding, or shallow at the best, and dismissive
These guys don’t really understand Orthodoxy
To their credit, they do understand that all protestants are closer to Roman Catholicism than either are to Eastern Orthodoxy, which is more perceptive than most protestants or Roman Catholics.
If you understood scripture you wouldn’t be Eastern Orthodox
How can they? They don’t even understand their own philosophical and epistemological grounding. Their entire ideology is predicated on nominalism, rationalism, intellectualism (that is, intellect and its conclusions as an idol), and fallacious argumentation (quite often circular reasoning, incredulity, and begging the question). They willfully choose to be so confident that what they believe is right (strong epistemology be damned) that they lack the humility to even ask the simple and profound question, “What if THEY are right and I am the one misled?” Those who do ask this question with all sincerity and humility ultimately become Orthodox. Which is why good, intellectually honest, and struggling men are finding their way into Orthodoxy.
Mystic and gay is pretty accurate
@@CorlosMazda How mature and yet so indicative of the Protestant mind that willfully chooses to reject self-reflect instead of self-righteous snark.
As a former protestant, here's how I got where I ended up:
1990 - I am born into an Anabaptist family, attending a Baptist church in Washington.
2002 - Church received a new pastor, weekly communion moved to once a quarter, hymnals replaced with projectors, piano and organ replaced with drums and guitar and "praise music", responsive readings of scripture- gone, Nicene creed recitation- gone, chanting the psalter- gone, and the sermon went from being a small portion of the service to being the main event.
2008 - All the changes made, to attract the youth, did not attract youth and instead made the young people already in the church, including myself, view the church service as pointless. 3 annoying songs, a sermon of shallow and cringy allegories catered to sheltered middle class yuppies, and no desire to approach ideas akin to the deep personal suffering of my life that was filled with death.
2015 - I walked into an American Orthodox church on a whim because I was so exhausted of the banality of my local church. I was stunned. It was both nothing like anything I had seen, but also had that same reverence and humility that I remembered from the church of my childhood. I did not trust icons, I didn't pray to saints, I didn't believe in infant baptism, but I found everything the protestant church had robbed from me by changing to appeal to modern consumerism.
2019 - I made an earnest attempt to find that deep spiritual teaching and reverent worship that I remembered in my childhood and I had briefly found in that Orthodox church. I went to the Presbyterian church, I went to the Lutheran church, I went to the Southern Baptist church and I went to the Anglican church, but by the time I had gotten there, I knew, as soon as I lived close enough to an Orthodox church, I was going to be home.
2024 - I was received into the Orthodox church, along with twenty other former protestants, a few Roman Catholics, an ex-muslim, and several former satanists and atheists.
I am confident my children and grandchildren will have the same church experience I do now. There's nothing stopping the protestant church from a continuous spiral of modernization. The Orthodox church asks something of us. She asks us to deny ourselves. She asks us to be uncomfortable. She asks us to improve through confession and penance. She asks us to submit to her hierarchs. And in her part, she doesn't perceptively change, she doesn't have the mechanism to change. She takes care of us from birth through our death and beyond, and she provides us with 2000 years of saints and holy writings that we can learn and grow from on an endless journey. We don't have concerns about how to interpret scripture, because it all has already been interpreted by saints much wiser and much closer to Christ and the apostles than anyone alive today.
Blessed are they who obey his commandments.
Welcome home, brother
Cool story, bro
Would you say they that you are save by grace after all you can do?
Lol. Tldr ; " I'm a member of a false church the Eastern Orthodox because I wasn't feeling enough so"
Instead of gathering 3 guys together who frankly dont understand a topic and wasting two hours, I suggest publicly speaking with pastors in the Eastern church to engage them first.
Typical EO bro can't even get 15 minutes into the video.
@@westleyhurtgen4275 I did. I watched the whole thing. Fasting helps build a high pain tolerance.
@westleyhurtgen4275 I listened to the video, most of it had little to do with the Faith and more to do with the hosts' personal feelings.
I visited a Greek Orthodox Church last month. There was not even standing room. Families were outside sitting in the grass listening to the liturgy which we could hear from speakers.
One note is that they were not a warm body people. No one approached to welcome me. No handshakes, no good mornings. The building was beautiful though. 😂
Some parishes do better than others with regard to greeting and welcoming visitors. Our bishop and priests always ask if there are any visitors to raise their hand, introduce themselves, and invite them to stay for lunch to mingle and talk. In my experience (though I know there are exceptions), the Greek jurisdiction (GOARCH) are generally not good at this unfortunately. I’d say it’s a new tradition that developed over the 20th century because of how and why many of these parishes came into existence in the first place. But with the massive influx of converts, there is a much greater willingness and joy to do things which will open up the parish more and make visitors and inquirers feel more welcome. That said, I’d still say there probably won’t be anything even close to Protestant greeters because the point of worship is worship and reflection. Fellowship and getting to know people is for outside of the service.
Forgive the Greeks they tend to be that way. It doesn't mean Orthodoxy is wrong
You're supposed to stay for lunch. Our services aren't social networking events. They are sacred. The meal afterwards is where everyone converses
I belong to a GOARCH parish. I emailed the parish priest and he asked me to come in for a meet and greet with him. We had a lengthy conversation, just him and I. He made me feel welcome and about 18 months late my son and I were officially brought into the church the Baptism and Chrismation.
11:27 There is no stage. I didn’t even know what the priests and deacons looked like because their back was facing us or they were behind the iconostasis most of the liturgy. Joel will “preach” at people for an hour. Orthodoxy is about Christ, not man
I am a former evangelical missionary for 5 years, helped with our local Acts 29 church planting efforts, etc. This year I will be brought into the Orthodox Church along with my 3 children and wife. This was a multi-year journey of studying history, praying, struggling, etc. Not sure what he means by a "fad" in this case. Not to mention the catechumen process is typically one year at least. A fad is typically described as something taking place quickly and is short-lived. Those coming into the Orthodox church are doing so sincerely, with great effort and in a slow manner with careful study and prayer, unlike the "easy believe-ism" of many non-denom mega churches.
Glory to God! ☦️
It is a fad. The vast majority are attracted to the church because of the smells and bells and traditions. Not what they actually believe. You will end up focusing on your own performance instead of keeping your eyes fixated on Christ, and you have zero assurance. At least according to official orthodox teaching.
@@KnightFel you say “the vast majority…” how do you know this? What is your evidence for this? Certainly not the case for myself and those coming into the church around me.
Since when is popularity a metric of how true something is? An appeal to popularity is hardly a convincing argument for what is true, in fact, it’s often the opposite. The truth is, you can justify almost anything with this kind of binary thinking. Just because something is popular, doesn’t make it true. Just because something isn’t popular, also doesn’t make it true. God gave us what is true. Funny how people will do anything but look to Him.
@KnightFel
A couple thousand year fad I guess, sure beats the hula hoop and fidget spinner.
As for "assurance" is that how you choose a belief system, what makes you feel most assured? Does what's true even come into it? What if the truth is hard and requires effort and not always as immediately comfy?
Go to a grappling gym if you want to be immediately disabused of your assurance that you actually can defend yourself even a little bit. Then after some years of hard training you'll KNOW that you'll never reach complete competence... BUT you're actually miles ahead of back when it was all just theoretical and you felt most "assured" of your safety. You then have a kind of assurance that is both realistic and hard won. You'll have experienced defeat but increasingly more victory. You have a program that you can see and feel working and you know what to do from here
Orthodox process of salvation is like this. It's an ongoing program of healing (the literal meaning of salvation anyway) that leads you ever upward
All I ask of these new converts (as someone whose parents converted in the 90s) is to please remember that Orthodoxy is a way of life and that instead of being an Orthobro/ gal swept away by the online Orthotrad community realize that the REAL Orthodox Christian is one who carries their ragged cross through the mud not with theology but humility, sacrifice, and love for friend and enemy alike. I am in this same camp as well, we all are if we call ourselves Orthodox Christians. May we live our lives like St. Katherine, St. Moses the Black, the Sebastopol martyrs, and countless others showed by example❤☦️
Edit: I'm not saying that knowing theology isn't important, it is, but I'm seeing a lot more folks who know their canons and not the shut ins ( & many others in need) we need to serve.
☦☦☦☦
Amen
Amen. Christianity is Incarnational. You cannot take the Eucharist virtually. St Basil's theology is important, but so are his homilies, the ones to the people on how to Live the theology he teaches, to serve their neighbors and aid the poor and be temperate and humble.
'...is one who carries their ragged cross through the mud not with theology but humility etc'. Today's American has become so contemporary that it has become hipster on one side and legalistic on the other side. I am exploring EO myself at the age of 55 because of the vacuum of evangelicalism and protestantism.
While I am a Traditional Catholic, what you say is not dissimilar from what I see on my side. One can only develop a true "sense of the Faith" (Sensus Fidelium) via carrying one's cross --> Joyfully.
Peace🙏🙏🙏
I’m also hearing about folks who tried Eastern Orthodoxy and left back to a reformed Christian church. It is a both ways. Right now our churches are struggling because of the fruit of feminism. EO seems like the right choice. Please do your research on EO and understand that much of the dogmas are not part of the early century church. The necessity of icons for salvation, the requirement of Mary for prayers in salvation, sacraments as a work for salvation. Theses are just a few. Do your research. I was actually saved out of EO and am a reformed Christian. Remember that Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice and they follow me”. Scripture is the sole basis and truth about Jesus Christ and salvation.
Questions for the EO
Good enough? Are you good enough to keep yourself saved?
Repentance: If your salvation is dependent, in part, upon your ability to repent of your sins, what do you do with those since you have not repented of because you don’t know about them?
Lose salvation? Sin is breaking the Law of God (1 John 3:4). Jesus bore our sins in his body (1 Pet. 2:24) and made a legal (Lawful, according to scripture) atoning sacrifice (John 19:30) where he canceled our sin debt (Col. 2:14). So, if every single sin and sin debt you’ve ever committed has been canceled, then how is it possible for you to lose your salvation since there are no sins left that can be held against you?
Ask Jesus to forgive you: Would you pray and ask Jesus to forgive you of all of your sins and put all your trust and hope in Him alone? If you do, would you be forgiven of all your sins? If not, why won’t you pray and ask Jesus to forgive you of all your sins?
Regarding how our sins are forgiven. Jesus is God in the flesh (John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9). Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18). Jesus forgives sins (Luke 5:20; 7:48). Jesus tells us to pray to him (John 14:14). Questions about forgiveness. 1) If we pray to Jesus and ask him to forgive us of all of our sins, will he forgive us or will he withhold his forgiveness? 2) If he withholds his forgiveness, why would he do that if we are coming to him for forgiveness? 3) If all of our sins are forgiven, then why do we need a priest to forgive us of our sins? 4) Have you ever prayed to Jesus and asked him to forgive you of all your sins? If not, why not?
Questions for Eastern Orthodox People
Can you produce an infallible list of the church fathers?
Can you produce an infallible list of authentic writings of the church fathers?
Can you please quote any church fathers who venerated angels for me?
Can you please quote any church fathers who venerated saints for me?
Can you please quote any church fathers who venerated icons for me?
How do you know which Church Fathers are the right ones?
We are saved by grace alone through faith alone:
“being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,” ( 3:24).
“For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law,” ( 3:28).
“For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” ( 4:3).
“But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,” ( 4:5).
“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,” ( 5:1).
“Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him,” ( 5:9).
“that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved,” ( 10:9).
“But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace,” ( 11:6).
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,” ( 2:8).
“He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,” (Titus 3:5).
I’m sorry you had a bad experience and likely bad catechesis. This is not the way, my friend. You took your errant assumptions/presuppositions with you into Orthodoxy (like Joshua Schooping for example) and instead of switching your mind fully to the mind/phronema of the Church, you just struggled and concluded “Well this isn’t adding up with what I know.” I’d argue that based on everything you said here, there is a lot you think you know that you really don’t, and that is clouding your ability to rightly discern why Orthodoxy is true and why this move into the fullness of the faith is so significant.
@ so should I completely agree with what your church says or what the Bible says?
@@aaronwolf4211”I’m sorry you’re an ignoramus, here, let me school you”. The ARROGANCE. Yes. The ONLY REASON someone isn’t EO is because they’re “just so ignorant, bless their heart”.
@@MrMfloor The Church gave you the canon of Scripture in the first place (centuries after Christ and the Apostles, it should be noted). Christ established not a book, not a canon of "approved" books, but a Church guided by the Holy Spirit into all Truth, and He gave that Church into the care of the Apostles who then passed the Church and its teachings onto the next generation and the next generation, etc., all of whom in all places, all times, and all languages and ethnicities touched by the Gospel, consistently taught and maintained those teachings. It was in fact the very teachings, hymns, and lexicons of the Living Body of the Church that determined the canon of Scripture in the first place.
You cannot rightly and fully understand the Bible without the Church and the teachings of Christ safeguarded within. As St. Philip the Apostle said to the Ethiopian, "Knowest what thou readest?"...and what did he say in response? "How can I unless a man teach me?" Divine revelation doesn't start with the written word of text we call the Bible. It came about through the Person of the God-man Jesus Christ and is passed on via His Living Body on earth, the Church, maintained in its fullness and purity by the canonical Eastern Orthodox Church to this very day. And the gates of hell will NEVER overtake Her.
Literally copy and paste your argument into Chatgpt and ask it to rate each individual critique you gave 1-1000.. I'd be curious to see your scores. However, a common theme is that you have a bunch of misunderstandings.
If AI knows more than you about Orthodoxy, you should be careful on critiquing it. Chatgpt is common knowledge (1st page of google type stuff, really) with a fancy way of wording it. COTEL has a live stream reviewing this video, you should watch it, he clears up quite a few of the misunderstandings.
Just attend a divine liturgy and youll understand why everyone is converting. Its truly heaven on earth
I’ve been. It’s dead and full of idols.
Matthew 12:32. You should read it before making such blasphemous statements.
And FYI, if you feel deadness in the presence of God and the fullness of His Truth, that is a reflection of YOU and YOUR spiritual state. Just like many who saw Christ work miracles right in front of them walked away because they wanted a faith that suited them, their intellect, and their emotions rather than a Faith that transforms and transfigures them. But to do that, one requires a humble and open heart.
@@aaronwolf4211not really. Nice try though.
@@aaronwolf4211hours of chanting and very little preaching. The early church preached in the open air for hours.
I want to thank you so much Joel and team for this video. It is terrific confirmation that my family and I no longer need to be Protestants and need to seek the truth of Orthodoxy.
Maybe if you wanted to understand, you should interview converts and Orthodox Priests and see for yourself.
He did. Joshua schooping
@@luisovalle0309 not apostate Priests
🤣🤣 “Yea let’s ONLY interview the guy who already agrees with us because he wouldn’t let go of his errant beliefs when he became Orthodox and that ultimately drove him out of the Church!” Make it make sense.
There’s literally dozens of priests, monks, and laity who were full on Bible-believing evangelicals for years and sometimes even decades (many themselves having been pastors and seminarians) who could be interviewed face-to-face to address these matters. But you all refuse. Because you refuse face the fact that all of these things you believe and the way you have always believed them just might in fact be WRONG. Want to prove Orthodoxy false? DEBATE ACTIVE AND STUDIED ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Amen.
Ask a prot who their Saints are. They'll arrogantly claim that they're all saints.
Billy graham and George Washington!!!
Essentially nothing said for a couple hours, incredible.
From my own journey, EO hasn't rejected the spiritual as so much of protestantism has. In the effort to not be labeled Gnostic, the church would seem to have largely swung to be nearly agnostic.
I hope you keep churning out this kind of content because it'll surely attract even more to the Orthodox Church...
The apostasy is large
No it won't. Pastors in skinny jeans doing bootleg Ted talks might but the masculine Reformed church has also been growing a lot recently, thanks be to God. But we all need to stop trying to fight each other and focus on defeating actual evil together. Brother wars are a trap.
You guys are all too often the embodiment of the “no true Scotsman” fallacy. Frankly, I’m tired of all the arguing as to who has the better Christian clique. I love Christ. All I want is Him. Man is far more occupied in arguing who’s right and who Jesus loves most. Funny, Jesus addresses this directly in scripture, but I guess since a “church father” or famous pastor hasn’t said it then it didn’t happen. So unbelievably sick of it all.
@@genuineimitation8799 It's not a "No true Scotsman" fallacy if the claims themselves are assessed by their own merits. It would be fallacious if that was the basis of our entire argument. Which it is not. Same thing with the accusations of "anachronistic fallacy". Orthodoxy is not true just because it is "old". It is old and therefore its claims should be taken more seriously than you and many evangelicals are willing to consider.
Just like it does for the Pentecostals huh
The two videos with Schooping helped me become Orthodox☦️☦️
Yea talk about helping me further conclude I was making the right decision. I really hope he repents and returns to Orthodoxy.
Interesting that Luther had a much different stance on EO and RC. He would have picked EO over RC.
Sadly he passed before there could be any unity between him and orthodox church
The Orthodox Church will Triumph through Christ
Christ will triumph. Period.
We all need to stop falling into the endless trap of trying to triumph against other Christians, and focus on the true enemies. Or else none of us will triumph.
@@markvijitThis. It’s amazing how they’ve managed to substitute the church for Jesus. What is a body without a head?
Hard to do when they anathematize the doctrine of salvation
Go debate the positions with the orthodox
Like who lol
Maybe you, joker. You seem to think you have it all figured out.
The ortho bros are more terminally online than i could have possibly imagined
And they are the guys James White spergs about claiming they're ours.
I guess that must be why so much ink is spilled and breath expelled by guys like Joel and Gavin. They can’t keep us out of their mouth.
This. Orthobros are a psyop.
Show me your St. Paisios 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥
I’ve alway enjoyed this show but this was very childish. You call orthodox gay but yet Protestantism has trans priests and is controlled by women. 😅Feminism only continues in this country because it thrives in the evangelical church. I cringe in every evangelical church I’ve gone to relied on self study men’s groups and RUclips videos. Fact evangelical falling away from Christ has filled my studying. I’ve NEVER been spiritually filled in a Protestant church seen out of childhood. Protestants can hardly ever answer questions yet I read about the saints and I see the evidence of Christ. St Augustine writings saved me from my own mind.
You’ve failed to understand the heart of why men have walked away. You got some points but you’ve left them to die alone. And you mock them shame them without giving them tools to help them with. Men are looking for a well to drink and most church’s in America so many aren’t fit to drink. The “America” you speak of is dead your generation is in denial to see it. The pride in Americanism is a sin and the down fall of the legacy our forefathers gave us.
Great book about this:
“Jewish Influence in Christian Reform Movements” by Louis Newman
The doctrinal section here was pathetic. Please read more books on EO before you criticize something you don’t understand.
100% agreed
The first time I stepped into an Eastern Orthodox Divine liturgy felt like the first time I went to church. I'm 50 years old and grew up in protestant churches my whole life and all it did was make me an atheist. My family is perfectly fine with their protestant churches, but for me, the Eastern Orthodox is where I finally found the Holy Spirit. As a Christian, I believe we need to let the Holy Spirit guide us into what is truth for each and every one of us seeking Christ. I don't like the condemnation of other Christians coming from all sides. I hope we are all correct.
This is exactly what they talked about - you weren’t motivated by transcendent doctrine or God’s authoritative scriptures. You weren’t motivated by a mystical pseudo-experience.
I could see that, and I'm not trying to convert you, I don't really care if you believe exactly what I do. We need to unite against common enemies instead of fight with each other.
But I will say I had a similar experience with a conservative, reformed church after growing up and only knowing the sad, non-denominational, hollow mess that is modern forms of protestantism. I didn't know there was another option. But the liturgy, the singing of psalms, the tradition, the teaching, the sacraments, etc and how that affects the culture of the church and the ppl in it. It's a whole different thing. I love to know that we worship, believe and live how the people that built my country (the United States) did when it was actually great.
@@johnathanl8396 I was motivated to become a Christian because I wanted to believe it was true. It's not an easier softer church path to walk, but it holds all truth.
@@johnathanl8396 my motivation was to be a Christian.
Someone else has probably already mentioned it, but Jon Harris (conversations that matter) did a show on The Virtue of Protestantism the other day. He touched on stats re denomination and voting patterns and it was very interesting.
You guys got nothin. The protest is dying.
Imagine implying the rcc is right when you're the schismatics who left them
@ what are you and what do you think I was implying
I left the Protestant church many years ago. Joel is wrong on Penal Substitutionary Atonement. PSA is NOT the Gospel. The gospel is the death and resurrection of Christ for our sins (1 Cor 15). Believing in a specific atonement model is not necessary for salvation. If someone believes in ransom theory or penal satisfactory atonement, they are no less saved. STOP dividing the body of Christ over unimportant issues!!
You didn’t listen to what he said because he agreed with you
The orthodox position makes no sense. Okay, Christ died and resurrected. Now what? What are YOU supposed to do? Hopefully become holy enough and transfigured to make to heaven? Have fun with icons and toll houses. Your theology is woefully unbiblical.
@@samueljimenez7420 Joel literally said Penal Substitutionary Atonement is the Gospel. That’s false.
@@KnightFel The Orthodox (and Catholic) answer is to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2). Also, toll houses are not official orthodox theology but merely speculation.
@@KnightFel What are you supposed to do? Believe, repent, confess, be baptized, and begin the process of purification of your soul so that YOU can begin actively illuminating, healing, and restoring all of creation. THAT is how you save souls. Not through propositional assertions of some later eschaton, for the eschaton begins NOW. Btw, I hope you never have to experience the toll houses. It's quite something to have a near death experience and have demons attempt to pull your soul from your body into eternal darkness as they lay claim over it for unrepentant sin. Not something I would ever be brave enough to mock. Lord have mercy on me.
The obvious and right answer can be traced all the way back to the time of the German Reformation, when Luther, and other early reformers warned against "throwing the baby out with the bath water." That is, Luther cautioned against the zeal of who he derisively referred to as the "enthusiasts," who in their anti-Rome fervor were throwing away the liturgy, the ceremony, the ancient creeds and were even smashing artwork and breaking stained glass-even that which accurately depicted Biblical themes. This very fervor continues today with the modern church ignoring and even actively deriding centuries of accumulated spirituality in favor of a bland, lifeless, and feminized no-service. Or, in an effort to recover the vibrancy of ancient worship, fall into a crazed hyper-spirituality as seen in the Pentecostal movement, ignoring Paul's warning that God is not a God of confusion. Additionally, we Protestants have forgotten another of the first Reformers admonishments to always be reforming. To remember humbly that we are sinners, who get things wrong, ever in zeal for our Lord. There is deep meaning behind the phrase "iron sharpens iron." There needs to be a new ecumenism centered on the Five Solas and a full trust in the absolute uncompromising faith that Scripture is complete, inherent, sufficient, and true.
If sola scriptura was true, there would only be one denomination.
@@DiMacky24 I cannot be sure exactly your point. Nevertheless, the failure of man not Scripture is engenders the formation of denominations. All denominations were started by men in their zeal to serve God. But for one reason or another they chose to overlook some or all of Scripture in support of there peculiar theologies. This takes nothing from Sola Scriptura but simply throws a spotlight on man and his sinful heart.
Of course! It’s not like we’ve even tried that before…oh wait.
@@jackuber7358 If Protestants are set on being Protestant, they should all be conservative confessional Lutherans. Lutherans have a different views on tradition, sacraments, liturgical worship, than the reformed, Lutheran are not in agreement with the reformed on Christology, etc. Lutherans don’t necessarily define the “sola’s” the same, etc.
@@jackuber7358 If Protestants are set on being Protestant, they should all be conservative confessional Lutherans.
Lutherans have a different view on tradition, sacraments, ...than the reformed, Lutheran are not in agreement with the reformed on Christology, etc. Lutherans don't necessarily define the sola's the same, etc.
The Judeo-protestant church has told those on the far right that they’re not welcome so they’re going elsewhere and orthodox music is enchanting. I’m reformed, but I’m sure I’ll be driven out.
Well, you are welcome, but understand that part of becoming Orthodox is losing the right and left and cleaving to the position of the church, which you will find disagrees and agrees with aspects of both sides of the political paradigm. I have seen skinheads, zionists and communists join the church and be shaped into brothers and sisters.
@@DiMacky24I was just venturing a guess as to why some are going Orthodox. I do enjoy the chants though. Brother Nathaniel has probably helped recruitment numbers as well.
@@LetsbefrensBrother Nathanel is the best othrobro out there!
Just to add also: during Covid my Greek Orthodox brother was angry that his church was closed.
When they opened they were required to wear masks. My brother was a little angry and frustrated.
Once a slave always a slave. They lick the bootheels of the muslims in 1453 and they gave their pinch of incense to the commies from 1917-1991. They now have the nerve to act like they weren't relying on protestants not the worthless Catholics to bail them out.
The godless horde wasn't held off by the Pope and his divisions and lack of nukes.
You should interview father stephen d young, he's a scholars scholar and a former protestant himself so extremely conversant with the issues you raise and the responses to them. He has a popular and excellent podcast "Lord of Spirits" covering some aspects of scripture that you guys also talk about (ex nephilim, rabbinic judaism)
Other recommendation might be father john whiteford (also in texas like you guys) who is active on twitter and very aware of the new right, he's pretty based even by the high standards of Orthodoxy. He does interviews
Last father Josiah Trenham, who was previously reformed (in fact attended reformed seminary) and has a strong online presence and does lots of interviews.
I live in an Orthodox country, and the truth is that not 3% of the people (nearly all of whom are baptized, claim Orthodoxy, and keep their family's saint day) are genuine Christians in any sense of the word. They are completely ignorant of the Bible, foul mouthed, dressed in modern Western clothing, etc. Just because some rightfully disgruntled Protestant Evangelicals got mezmerized by the chanting, foreign language rituals, and incense doesn't give us any reason to take them particularly seriously... Even if they try to flood the comments section with flamboyant testimonies. It's tough to even find a serious EO theological writing. And, no, those massive volumes of "miracles" experienced by monks in monasteries don't count as theology.
I would encourage you to google “John Chrysostom” and start reading.
Seriously. Any church father lmao@@MaxMax-ib6xg
So what about the western rite? 😊
I'm curious if this video is going to actually hurt or slow down the growth or Orthodoxy.... or only help more people to "flock" to Orthodoxy?
In my estimation, the biggest problem and thus the best argument against sola scriptura is that it makes no sense to call a written text infallible. The information contained therein and its right use is infallible, but using the term to describe scripture prior to any act of interpretation makes no sense. Infallibility belongs to an interpreter, and the Holy Spirit is its source. For sola scriptura to work as you’ve defined it here, one must either have an infallible method of interpretation (what I take you to be arguing for here in implying that individuals or groups have the ability to arrive at infallible interpretations of scripture themselves) or one must be protected by the Holy Spirit in their interpretation of scripture. It’s the latter sense in which the Eastern Orthodox Church understands itself as the guardian of the deposit of faith. You can object and say it puts a human authority above scripture, yet by not doing so, you put your own authority as an interpreter or the authority of some human method you put to use above it by the necessity of hermeneutics in coming to any understanding. Sola scriptura remains a great principle for fostering factions and divisions.
This is heretical. The interpreter can not have infallibilty over the god breathed scripture.
Exactly. Which is precisely what Protestants do. Orthodoxy is a consistently taught and maintained deposit of faith that has stood the test of time for 2,000 years despite rampant persecution, heresies, war, and other conflicts. Yet, just in the 20th century alone, Protestant group have exponentially splintered over their interpretations of Scripture and constantly find themselves reinventing the theological wheel every 20-30 years. I’ve seen it play out my whole life. Scripture is infallible and so is the Church (Christ’s Mystical Living Body) who gave us the Scriptures and safeguards the CORRECT (that is literally, ORTHODOX) understanding and interpretation of Scripture. Any interpretation or group who holds an interpretation outside of the historical canonical of the Church as it has always been and has always taught, is placing their own authority and theological relativism over that of Christ, His Body the Church, and His as expressed in both Holy Scripture and Tradition (“word and epistle”).
Considering how effeminate all three men on this show are, you're not making a good argument (at least visually) for protestantism. Your cope is on par with liberal whining.
That church with the gold dust coming out of the vents is Bethel and they teach the dust is the holy spirit coming into the church building
These type of goofs and low tier args is why I left Protestantism. Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner.☦️
This looks like it will be good! Keep up the Good Work gentlemen!
The spiritual practices are very attractive. Plus a demand to dress properly for men and women. There are actual rules
Chat GTP will give you some dope charts too. Helped me with Presup
I think the strength of Orthodoxy is the weakness of the Mainlines.
Established Reformed, Lutheran, Episcopalian Churches are the natural home for those converting to Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism here in America.
the re-discovery of real Protestantism ie. Reformed (Presbyterian, Continental), Anglican and Lutheran is what is needed in the modern evangelical world. mainstream evangelicalism is disconnected from historical Christianity.
Confessional Lutherans would say Presbyterianism, Reformed Baptist, evangelicalism needs to die. They would also say at least the Orthodox have the sacrament.
@@P-el4zd "reformed" baptists aren't reformed. confessional lutherans and confessional reformed are twins of the reformation and mutually respect and converse with each other. Reformed and Lutheran are much closer theologically than Lutheran and EO. Blessings.
@@reformedaussie Have you read the book of Concord? They don’t exactly speak highly of the reformed. Aegidius Hunnius (every Lutheran should know that name) has a great little book title- the Judaizing Calvin
@@reformedaussie Have you read the book of Concord? They don’t exactly speak highly of the reformed. Aegidius Hunnius (every Lutheran should know that name) has a great little book title- the J….’zing Calvin
@@reformedaussie Have you read the book of Concord? They don’t exactly speak highly of the reformed. Aegidius Hunnius (every Lutheran should know that name) has a great little book title- on Calvin.
32:35 Pastor Chase is exactly right The Orthodox Church isn’t an optional denomination it’s the church. One of the big reasons people are leaving Protestantism is because the way theology is done is so different.
Another great program.
Besides the points about modern protestantism being perverted by feminism, it has also been perverted by man-centeredness.
The liturgical, RC and Orthodox churches are God centered.
😂 No.
@genuineimitation8799 Joel admitted as much in the program.
You should listen to it.
Thanks be to God I left Protestantism for Holy Orthodoxy. And it's wasn't bc of the aesthetics it was Theology. ☦️☦️☦️
But it wasn't because your arguments are emotional
@@cosmictreason2242 What's with your harping on "emotional"? Where do you see emotionalism in the comments? Just as we reject rationalism as a fallible guide to truth, we reject emotionalism. Where in Orthodox services do you see people swaying back and forth, "holy laughter," barking and other detritus of what Protestantism has turned into in this country? That's not us.
Eastern Orthodoxy: Mystic and Gay should be the title of AGTV series on the subject lol
Don’t forget unamerican!
Thank YOU for this conversation brother's! 🙏
Little off topic, but would be interested in a podcast on house churches.
Not necessarily on their legitimacy, but if you see trends of protestants gravitating towards them (maybe over the next 10-15 years).
The reason I ask is because in the past year my feeds have been getting a lot of content in regard to them.
They do have some solid arguments for them, including historical (first couple of centuries), as well as financial as many traditional churches lose membership and/or struggle financially (and many people get stretched thinner financially in their personal lives due to economic conditions). No mortgage, bills/debts, paid staff, paid pastor could be optional depending on the arrangement (and likely size of the church); more % of giving could be used to meet needs.
Also, strong arguments for the engagement and intimacy/fellowship of the body, pretty hard to stay unnoticed/slip out.
For the record, I am a member of a Non-denominational (reformed baptist in practice) independent church (teaching elder attended Masters Seminary); and have no plans to leave or to go to a house church.
Just seems like there is a possibility this may be an emerging trend into the future, kinda like Protestants going RC and EO currently is.
Before I moved to my current location, our family was part of a home group (not church sanctioned, but they knew of it and were fine with it) at our previous church.
Several deacons from the church (southern Baptist, didn’t have “elders,” just pastoral staff and deacons) started and led the group.
We met every Thursday for 5 years; ate a meal, sang, prayed, and went through a book of the Bible expostionaly.
The teaching was led by one the deacons in rotation, but was a discussion type format.
None of them had a seminary degree at the time (but a couple were in the process though none planned to enter FT ministry), and would also preach at the Church some on Wed. Nights.
The kids would stay in the basement, and the wives would rotate watching them and giving a lesson.
I did like the environment and it was a really instrumental time in our families growth, and we grew extremely close with the families in that home group.
Sounds beautiful. Honestly, far closer to the intended spirit of the church, imo.
Primary school level analysis and understanding of Eastern Orthodoxy.
Calvinists trying to figure out how they are predestined to lose to Orthodoxy or Catholicism
1:10:45 This is such a shallow and disingenuous argument. If there were an Irish Catholic or a Greek Orthodox who wanted to join Pastor Chase’s church would he tell them “No, you oughta stick with the faith of your ancestors.”?
Of course he wouldn’t.
Don’t Catholics believe that you can lose your faith? Wouldn’t that be a way to divide the invisible from the visible church.
@@mamimalista7924 Confessional Lutherans righty believe you can lose your faith.
And that's anti Biblical
@ how is that anti Biblical, I’m pretty sure other Protestants believe this too. Calvinism is not all of Protestantism, you don’t get to claim the whole movement, they also use the Bible to support their belief.
@ it's literally the view I'd the reformation which is why it's repudiated in the council of Trent
@@cosmictreason2242 Luther and Lutherans teach you can lose faith-it very biblical.
Protestantism lead me to agnosticism
Orthodoxy brought me back to Christ
I’ve come to believe that Joel’s favorite words are fake and gay and in that order.
Basically “I’m gonna prove how manly of a man I am by calling everything gay. That’ll show the kids how cool we are!”
Was just received into EO on the eve of theophany. I have found the true faith. It’s not an opinion.
Your answer to keep people in seats is more reforms. Just keep reforming. We will stay the same. Pre denominational.
DPH did a nice breakdown of this vid. Glory to Jesus Christ.
penal substitutionary atonement, how sweet the sound!
53:00 there is an onus put on Orthodox Christians to live the Christian life. Before communion the priest says all Orthodox are welcome to partake if they’ve prepared themselves through prayer, fasting, almsgiving and recent confession.
It might just be a fad, just like the Young, Restless, and Reformed fad.
Yes, a fad for 2,000 years
@ Yeah, I didn’t say Orthodoxy is a fad. I said young men currently flocking to Orthodoxy might only be a fad.
@@orthochristosyou don’t think there were Christians 2000 years ago who believed in salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone? I don’t think you know history. lol try reading Paul’s epistles.
@@jackshadow325 That would only make sense if suddenly men started to be well cared for by the other churches... I don't see that change happening quickly.
Prima Scriptura (what the E.O. hold to) is essentially the same thing as Sola Scriptura without exclusvely putting tradition on the back burner or outright rejecting it like so many (not all) Protestants do. I say this as a Protestant.
Prima Scriptura should be adjacent with Prima Tradition. Perhaps the 5 solas should add Tradition to it instead of exclusvely rejecting it through its implications.
Which Protestant tradition rejects Tradition?
Actually Protestants don’t reject tradition lol. Historically they have been big on tradition, it’s just subject to the scripture, as it should be.
All Protestant traditions reject THE Tradition and replace it with their own traditions…in the name of rejecting the traditions of men lol
@@TheSwordofEngland Baptist, Evangelicals, Seventh-day Adventist, Pentecostals. Do you need a few more examples?
☦️ 📿💪
This is the most ignorant conversation about Christianity ever.
40:47 At our Orthodox church we have 60 catechumens right now most come from Protestant churches but quite a few come from the Catholic Church. But also in Houston we have good Catholic churches.
New Covenant Whole Gospel: How many modern Christians cannot honestly answer the questions below?
Who is the King of Israel in John 1:49? Is the King of Israel now the Head of the Church, and are we His Body? Who is the “son” that is the “heir” to the land in Matthew 21:37-43? Why did God allow the Romans to destroy the Old Covenant temple and the Old Covenant city, about 40 years after His Son fulfilled the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 in blood at Calvary?
What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary.
God is not now a “racist”. He has extended His love to all races of people through the New Covenant fulfilled by His Son’s blood at Calvary. The Apostle Paul warned against using “genealogies” in our faith in 1 Tim. 1:4, and Titus 3:9.
If the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20 and the Old Covenant is "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13, why would any Christian believe God is going back to the Old Covenant system during a future time period?
What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below.
Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.
He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8, 3:16? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.
Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36)
We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Watch the RUclips videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.
Why do people post walls of text and expect honest engagement.
Need a TLDR fren
Bunch of emotional appeals from orthobros in the comments, just like the arguments for Catholicism. If there's one thing that guarantees it's not the truth, that is it.
You’re coping hard, feeling threatened. It’s okay, the original church is here for you. Thankfully we have reason and emotion together.
@ I'm not threatened by your emotion. Boring
52:45 Over the last couple of years I’ve lost ~80 pounds. I don’t understand the science of nutrition or the science behind the exercise but if I do what the nutritionists and the trainer says it works and I lose weight. If I wanted to I could learn all kinds of interesting things about diet and the way the body works. It’s similar with Orthodox life, if you just go to church say your prayers and love your neighbor you’ll be saved. But if you want to learn about the councils and iconography and ecclesiology and symbology it’s all there for you.
👀👀👀
It’s amazing what people can come up with in their own little vacuum. Hey guys, I did my MDiv work at GCTS. Where did you go to school? Send back your diploma. They did a horrible job.
Also - attend Divine Liturgy the next time you cancel Sunday services because you need a holiday break. Then maybe you’ll start to understand why even clergy converts.
Further - do you homework before you assert that converts aren’t doing theirs. 😂
Lastly, only because I’m not watching anymore - marketing research? I thought you were pastors. You aren’t running businesses. Your head is in the wrong place, guys.
Young men are going to eastern orthodoxy because this video spent two hours not only not actually saying anything of substance, But because none of you have actually done the research and intellectual footwork (especially ironic since the reformed tradition prides itself on its perceived rationality) necessary, to even understand why young men find its apologetics infinitely more convincing. There has never been a more abundant amount of orthodox catechetical and educational material, but oh well, it who cares right? It’s only gonna grow in abundance in the English speaking west
Do you even hear yourselves? Almost everything you say is self refuting. Keep digging in- bring more to Holy Orthodoxy!
Edgelord Joel is the best Joel. Desperate to look cool to his new friend Isker 🤣
Joel is so lost and outright lying in this. Just exposed himself as completely uneducated on the issue and has no room to talk. Nice try but you are the reason people are leaving for Holy Orthodoxy and Christ's actual church unchanged for 2000 years now.
You really should take more time studying Orthodoxy before critiquing it. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. One straw man after another filled in with speculations.
If this video alone doesn't make you Orthodox I can't help but to think maybe Calvinism is true and you just weren't predestined.
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 Aw c'mon -- if you can't trust your salvation to the opinion of a French lawyer, what can you trust?
Bad
I’ve alway enjoyed this show but this was very childish. You call orthodox gay but yet Protestantism has trans priests and is controlled by women. 😅Feminism only continues in this country because it thrives in the evangelical church. I cringe in every evangelical church I’ve gone to relied on self study men’s groups and RUclips videos. Fact evangelical falling away from Christ has filled my studying. I’ve NEVER been spiritually filled in a Protestant church seen out of childhood. Protestants can hardly ever answer questions yet I read about the saints and I see the evidence of Christ. St Augustine writings saved me from my own mind.
You’ve failed to understand the heart of why men have walked away. You got some points but you’ve left them to die alone. And you mock them shame them without giving them tools to help them with. Men are looking for a well to drink and most church’s in America so many aren’t fit to drink. The “America” you speak of is dead your generation is in denial to see it. The pride in Americanism is a sin and the down fall of the legacy our forefathers gave us.
The rcc has gheis, those churches which are not rcc with gheus are literally not Protestant at all, they are nonchristian, which is why they are ecumenical