Super awesome machine. Have you thought about using abs accumulator and a quad flight controller 6 axis gyro/accelerometer pid loop control for stabilisation/ better, safer control authority? The mass differential, especially with those huge flywheels, is going to be problematic, i think. What thoughts have you had regarding control reaction/authority? Again, kinawesome build. 😊
Diamond tread pattern airplane tires on the monster chopper, would give it smooth cornering,, because they are rounded like a huge super fat motorcycle tire. The bike already looks a bit like really tough landing gear. 😉
Yes please : get that triangular tube you call a seat an extension to fender the back tire. I don't want to see a big bump unsettle you and throw you in that rotating back tire.
I am very sure that that giant arch that connects the front wheel is the reason why it always falls to the left in the tests (minute 51 onwards). It would be necessary to correct the balance and center of gravity to avoid that.
I just realized how far behind these videos are. I live in Idaho about 45 minutes away from these guys. Our cold snap(negative temps) happened back in mid December/early January. It's been 40' for the last month+ lol. That snow is pretty much gone now. Keep up the great content guys!
I have a tip regarding the steering ratio. It is common on large cargo bikes like urban arrow to have a higher rate of turning for the front wheel compared to the steering angle, because the wheel sits so much in front. This is a trick to make it feel as if the front wheel is in line with the handlebar axis for a more natural feel. The way it is now how Ethan explains it at 32:43 is actually opposite and make the front less responsive. Granted that now there is more leverage to move the wheel, however the geometry of leaning and steering into a turn will be off and actually harder to control. Have a look, hope it helps! Love the build❤
I’m just worried of a death wobble condition in the front. Gonna rip and send all the steering comments up. Not sure how you could even add a stabilizer to the system.
I am a senior process specialist for robotics company, and my background is robotic welding, and have been in manufacturing and doing that for almost 30 years now. I have a small shop and I’m a hobbyist and always trying to build things myself, but have never tackled anything like the projects you guys do. You are one hell of a backyard fabricator and I always love and appreciate your videos. Cheers.
If you’ve seen some of the other things Ethan’s mind has created, I’d say he’s pretty far from a backyard fabricator. Check out the video of the rotating treehouse, Ethan’s mind is just one of a kind when it comes to building cool shit.
I know no one but you, and your colleagues (but really you), knows how much time, effort and sweat has gone into this build. Well, we see a fraction of it, but you know what we see most? The fact that you're a brilliant engineer. Splendid job brother!
A great mechanic but, no not a good engineer 😂 all the engineers have been telling him repeatedly why his steering is fucked and he's refusing to listen, or even consider the fundamentals of motorcycle balance. Even 10 minutes of planning ahead could have prevented them wasting all that time building it and rebuilding it. This bad-boy is an art-piece first, and a bike second. Brilliant mechanic, brilliant artist, above all else
Rounding the tires is the key ingredient. When I built my electric bike with truck tires I had to round them out and it made all the difference from unrideable to super easy to ride. That is also a lot of rake angle which will make it hard to steer, because of the tire's contact patch being increased and the geometry of more leaning the tire rather than steering it.
me too [I said that when he started the build...] and maybe after spraying a little something over the coating to look slightly rusted... that would give it a raw look...
Not watching your channel too regularly, though I always enjoy it. This episode however is exceptionally well photographed, lighted and edited (including the music choices). Respect! Having a 2nd thought about it, I think it is actually among YT’s finest!
I love the way Ethan thinks about both aesthetics and functionality, he is both an artist and an engineer all rolled into one. It's a beautiful machine!
Fortnine just made a video about motorcycle steering and the huge relevance of roundness of tyres in motorcycles. Having said that, it looks like mounting both single arms on the same side of the wheels will result in an asymmetric axial load in both axles, instinctively, I'd say that would result in what we are seeing here, a natural lean of the motorcycle to the left. An absolute beast of a build nonetheless.
I was looking for this comment, it was driving me nuts that nobody said this, those tires are not made for motorcycles... they would need custom ones, or round those ones off somehow or get like mud tires
The most important takeaway from that video is that he needed to turn the bars left to initiate the turn to the right, then turn the bars right to continue the turn.
I was reflecting on how far you guys have come in the last couple of years. From the Barbie car to a monster bike. The increments of knowledge, experience, and production is beyond the scale of AWESOME. Even the quality of the videography is off the chart.
Came for the monster chopper, stayed for Fred and Bjorn. Man, i remember watching the Barbie Jeep build series back in the day. Absolutely insane how far you guys have come, and you deserve every bit of it. Keep up the good work !
As a guy who has been here since before the Camaro, you guys have done so great at finding your style and voice in the videos you put out. I am so happy to have been here to watch it unfold! 🤟
These videos are probably my favorite part of the week during winter. Since I can't ride my own motorbike right now, I can at least watch you guys build a EPIC one!
I'm so glad you mentioned rounding the profile of the tires. From the very beginning all I could think of was that you really needed to cut off those square shoulder lugs. There's a reason why going double dark doesn't mean 2 car tires. You have to have rounded profile, especially on the front tire! Great build. Can't wait to see the powered riding attempts.
Love how Ethan is making functioning art and will and the homies are just like “let’s put a V8 in a fridge with wheels!” Great content across the board.
There's a few shots just before that that were literally breathtaking, the outside looking in and the shot of the rim with the weld spark behind. Gorgeous.
Dude, the amount of design work and engineering you appear to be doing in your head is astounding. It is like you just have a instinctual level of understanding of physics in a way that is absolutely incredible. Most people can't look at a set of gears and tell you which direction a gear will turn based on any other gear (even though that is just counting odd or even) and you are pulling things out of your head that the rest of us would not even know where to find the formulas for. I hope you understand just how gifted you actually are.
lol… still using the OG slag scraper. If I remember, it was a reject when you guys started using the arcdroid. “It’s perfect for scraping the slag off tho” says Ethan.
One of the first things I thought of early in the build, was that it might have been better to build the swing arms on opposite sides to try to balance the weight distribution. The "test rolls" seem to potentially validate that. But, it's still a really cool project, and with some power behind it, it may behave a bit better, as you take advantage of the centrifugal force trying to keep it upright.
I enjoy the process of just throwing things together to see if they work. This method I think connects with most viewers, who are not engineers. Trial, and error, has been the default modus operandi, for thousands of years!
Enjoying the Monster Chopper series. Speaking of choppers, it'd be really nice to see you guys win Cleetus McFarland's helicopter. I'll look forward to videos of you learning to fly it.
Honestly I could see them selling it to make many other projects. I don't see any real use or videos to come from the helicopter itself. We would have to wait a while longer for them to get their pilots licenses and that would take away time from any other projects they have going on also. Honestly it feels like selling the helicopter would be the most practical/logical decision.
@@GrindHardPlumbingCoEthan and Will should do some type of build off in the future tho. I'm sure y'all could figure something amazing out and create some top tier content
It's specifically a small enough heli to fit in a normal garage without having any hanger costs and you don't need a runway. Tiny trainer helis are prob about as fuel efficient as they get and it's brand new. Maybe I just wanna see these guys fly around the woods but still the only real cost is a flight trainer and fuel
I'm not talking about the cost of anything. I'm sure they could figure that all out if/when they needed too. The point I was making is that their wouldn't be much content to come from a helicopter to this channel. I'm sure they could figure something out but like you said it's a small engine Heli so it can't carry much weight.
You could simplify the top section of the steering by removing the bell crank and additional linkage. I've done this very successfully before. The housing of the cables could be mounted to a pivot on the upper steering arm. When you turn left and right the upper section of the cable housing moves in and out with the arm. Works a treat! Also with dual cable you can bias one toward tension and the other toward compression just a little with your adjusters this will reduce any tiny amount of slop left.
Those high ceilings in the shop are perfect for a light grid, you could get all the lighting you need without having to set up and take down light stands. Same set up as a studio would have 🖤
Man, the editing, the premium shots, the shop and tooling, the builds, just everything about grindhard and crew is so dam good. I would forever love to hang out and do a carshow in boise with you guys.
This bike does a great job at giving a visual representation of counter steering. Growing up on dirtbikes it always seemed natural but seeing how much you are having to try and lean in the opposite direction of where your handlebars are going put it into a better perspective. No matter what happens or how much weight you lean the bike is almost going to turn the opposite direction of the handle bar - turn right, go left. turn left, go right. motorcycles turn by leaning, turn the opposite way you want to get the tires to lean/tilt, straighten the handle bars and let and your body weight and gyroscopic motion do the rest. i would imagine that when the tires are rounded it would make things feel a bit more natural, because it would seem hard to instinctively turn the handle bars opposite of where you want to go when you can see the direction the tire is going combined with how flat it is
I was just going to say this. It clearly shows why counter steering is so important. With 10 to 100 times the rotational inertia it makes sense that counter steering would come into play at incredibly low speeds. But counter steering at 1 or 2 mph would feel so counter intuitive even for an experienced rider which is why i think he is struggling so hard to turn.
The #1thing I love about these group of dudes desides the top quality work they do ,mostly is that they are by far some of the whole hearted kindest people and I don't know them personally but when people are truly good people you can see their soul shine threw .
They are many of us. What I personally love is when some staunch defender of US customary units calls them "freedom units". I just want to say to people like that, "Hey, buddy. How is the system of units developed by the British Monarchy working out for you?" George Washington didn't come up with feet and miles, despite what US television thinks. ruclips.net/video/JYqfVE-fykk/видео.html
such a nice fun piece of editing! It's so long, but it does not feel like it! Breaking it up, some random shots, it's perfect! if cause the awesome project does help, but Its been an hour very much worthwhile for everything. Keep it up!
the amount of fabrication skill you have gained for years of making things like this really resonates on this build. yeah, I agree, you can no longer cheap-out at this point,dang! this build is on point. love the more build less talking GHP Co.
Don't you mean the only channel worse getting notifications that you have found cuz there are plenty of channels that are just as good or better like vgg pbg jyd lsc sleeperdude puddinsfabshop and many more
Some genius adaptations. Jank away mods worked! Carpenters don't need collage. The double cables remind me of Dave Canterberry's favorite saying, "two is one and one is none, when being prepared".
This is amazing! I am impressed by your fabrication skills and ambition to create something unique. I think a fatal flaw in this design are the crazy heavy wheels. Solve that and success will be easier. You've gained a fan sir.
You know, as I watch this, I come to realize something about myself. It has everything to do with the fact that, at some point in time I thought I would grow up to fabricate with metal. but now I can honour where I’m at in my sewing career. And know, my metal fabrication cup is overflowing watching you guys expressing yourselves with metal! Killing it boys! Much love ❤️
Damn this is relatable! I thought forsure i was gonna go welding or do carpentry after school but now im building a more digital foundation, but i can still live these dreams vicariously through channels like this!
Also put the gard on, i have 9.5 reasons left to keep mine on at all times in the future. Also i can onely flip of one and a half people at the time now haha
Hey, uh, this is for you, Ethan, if you see this. Watching this build, I always wondered about how it would handle once built. I have read some about motorcycle chassis building and about rake and trail geometries and all that, and up until now, I was ok with the way you engineered things in that sense. Now, I am questioning something that I thought might be something to maybe bring up to you to think about since you're smarter than me 😅. Motorcycle design has always been about a center of gravity that is higher than the wheels, and the rake, trail, and handling dynamics all tie into the wheelbase as well. The balancing factor of bikes is natural as there is a gyroscopic element, but also of self correction of the front wheel thanks to the trail and rake geometries. I'm sure you know all of this, I'm just trying to set the conversation is all. This motorcycle doesn't really have that higher center of gravity, it really is about in line with the center of the wheels, so steering correction seems to not respond like normal at all, because you can't control the track of the tires to keep them under that center of gravity - you're just wallowing with no ability to change the base of the bike (track of the tires) in order to keep the bike balanced. I could be wrong here, but I don't think the "normal" rules for rake and trail design apply here. For one, your wheels base to the height of your center of gravity ratio is rather unusual. Normally, this would require a lot of rake, but I think this isn't ok now because of the center of gravity is not "normal". I think maybe this is more like a rip-stick skateboard type dynamic. Those are able to balance a very long wheelbase and a "low" center of gravity. The big difference in design of the steering components is in the use of the castor wheels, and with a reverse rake, I guess I'd call it 😅. This allows the rip-stick to have that self aligning effect for balance and control. However, even with a rip stick, the balance point is still right above the top of the wheels, and then the rider controls the track below their center of gravity to remain balanced. I don't think you have either situation (normal motorcyle/rip-stick) here exactly, but I feel like there's a geometry puzzle here like that for the handling dynamic in order to balance and steer. Another wheeled vehicle comes to mind as well, and that's those monowheels where the pilot and engine are inside a large diameter wheel. Those are able to balance, but the creator had to make the wheel move out of the center under the center of gravity of the pilot and engine. The center of gravity on a monowheel is very low compared to the wheel size, so that has me optimistic this is possible. Trail on a "normal" motorcycle is always to create that natural castor effect for self alignment. The rip-stick is different in so many ways, but still self aligns. I have no idea if a monowheel self aligns, but I do know it has weird handling - especially at higher speeds (and they often use aero to stay straight). I know that you're smarter than me and all, but I truly love all things wheeled. I love to understand the balancing dynamics of 2 and 1 wheeled things, and then being able to ride and feel those physics at work. I'm mostly just curious about it all, and my inner voice screams at me wanting to try to ride this thing. I'm hardly deserving to be giving you any advice 😂, so, I dunno, maybe I'm just sharing my thoughts and I'm just crazy 😂.
Don’t sell yourself short, bud - these guys aren’t super smarter than you and are making it up as they go just like anyone else. They’ve got a nice shop and an audience and dude is obviously pretty clever and skilled, but there’s every chance the thing you’re talking about will be an Achilles heel. Or maybe not - we’ll see! But either way, comments like yours are useful to better understand the forces at play. I mean, he thought that hydraulic steering might work and you know some dude in Canada was shaking his head about it. But that’s how progress is made - it’s said that mistakes are better teachers than a hundred successes. Or something like that. :)
Very insightful information, you raise a lot of legitimate concerns, I feel that maybe this is a, (can we do it), aspect as much as a (will it work perspective). I have to give them props for the success they have accomplished to this point; it truly is a different Moster. I'll bet some auto industry people said the electric car would never work so don't bother trying, and then Elon Musk comes out of nowhere and wham, the Tesla. Now they are by far the leading manufacturer of the most advanced EV's around the world. Not that these guys are making the next Tesla but trying something completely out of the norm.
@@JB-ro3sz - Yeah, exactly (minus the bit about Elon because that dude is more hype-man and enabler of other’s good ideas than an inventor, more Howard Hughes than Burt Rutan, though his successes have been earned and can’t be ignored). Like you say, it seems like these guys operate in “can we do it” mode, starting with an image/result and working backwards from there. This crazy machine clearly began as a “wouldn’t it be amazing if these wheels were on a motorcycle? it’d look like the one in the Dark Knight! It’d be awesome!” Versus starting at “I’d like to create a two-wheeled machine that could go off-road and achieve these benchmarks.” To my thinking, progressing by leaps instead of increments is often done by the folks who just have a go at making something “that will never work” or start with something already imagined but a “fantasy,” like making real Spider-Man web-slingers. Feedback by people like the OP is how those ideas get fleshed out or how those ideas can be pushed past when they hit the proverbial “brick wall.” In some ways, things like this are one of the ways that the internet actually achieves something close the hype and promise made about it in the 90’s and 2000’s. A project like this is genuinely inspiring to watch and the comments and thoughts from novices to experts is so cool to see.
I think you're correct! Having a hub in the front changes things again. My gut feel was more castor would definitely help and i don't think it's very hard to change. Just need to rotate the hub mountings on the front swing arm. I think this is what you mean by "rake"? I think rake is more of a motorcycle term, but castor makes sense too since he's essentially using a car hub.
Aloha Grind Hard crew, What a beautiful Monster Chopper! I think that you could use a counterweight for slow speed turns. Maybe have your seat metered, left and right, (probably not free floating) to use your body to offset the chopper's center of mass.
Once you get enough speed for a bit a gyro to come into play it should ride no worries. And like you say rounding those tires off will make a huge difference, still going to be a lot of side to side balance point movement at low speeds but at least with a rounded off tire it will be a bit more linear instead of a massive jump from the middle to the edge within a couple of degree's of lean angle like it is now. Going to be really interesting to see how it feels at speeds high enough to move the lean rotation point up to the center of gravity since that's also basically the center of the wheels because they are so big in diameter, there really wouldn't be meany other bikes out there like that, maybe some land speed stuff and a few others here and there but cant think of much else. Might actually really help tone down the massive gyroscopic's of those big flywheels, then again it may make them try and uncut, be interesting to see.
Once the tires are rounded the bike is going to want to always tip to the left because of how much weight is on that side. The overall weight of this thing is too much for someone to ride safely because the rider will constantly have to try and counter the mass of both arms being on the same side. If the arms holding the tires on were mounted on opposing sides it may be able to be balanced by the rider. I imagine when the suspension flexes at all the whole thing will want to dive to the left.
My intuition is that there’s a problem with this bike’s geometry. A falling bike torques the front wheel into the direction of the fall. If the speed is sufficient, that naturally puts the bike’s tires back underneath the bike’s center of gravity before the fall can continue. This creates a stable equilibrium at high speed. It’s why a shoved bicycle will remain upright for a good distance even without a rider. This fork setup isn’t giving them the geometry that naturally creates that stable equilibrium. So they’ll have to rely ENTIRELY on gyroscopic forces, which is not typical for a bike, and might not be sufficient.
Agreed, the phenomenon you're talking about is due to rake angle, the contact patch of the tire being behind the axis of rotation (left to right) for the front tire. Tip a shopping cart on two wheels, one front and one rear, that will display the effect of an offset axis.@@truejim
@@chaisv So I think to fix this, GHP will have to completely change the geometry of the front end? Like, they’ll need positive rake into the front wheel. The videos make it look like this geometry even has a slightly negative rake? which if true would mean this geometry may be actively unstable.
Most likely would just have to change the position of the top and bottom ball joints of which the front wheel stears about. The steering being on the unsprung half of the linkage, and the point of rotation of the front arm would mean the suspension would affect the trail but as it compresses it would help not hurt steering. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle Shaving the tires might be enough idk. It's easy to calculate, but it's not gonna be super dangerous or unstable and unpredictable. Anyways that's part of the fun of a build. @@truejim
When I see this, I'm reminded of "Days Gone". The custom ride you can make that you can take all over the place. This ride you made would have been awesome to use.
I think part of what Ethan is missing on turning with the bike is that on a typical motorcycle you turn AWAY from the direction you want to go to initiate the lean which then allows you to turn the direction you want to go.
Looks so cool! A lot of mass in those tires though. Mind the gyro at highway speed. You'll probably find it fighting you to right itself in the corners a lot more than a conventional bike 👍
The content is always amazing, and I'm really enjoying this build, but the cinematography, if that's the correct word, is just phenomenal. Great work 👍
Half-sized ape hangers or big z bars!!! And a rear fender before it pulls you off and chews you up .... I had a rare black golden retriever.. stayed right under my feet ... the most loving dawg!!!!
I am dying to see this thing running under its own power... this is one of my dream jobs: building custom bikes and vehicles for Hollywood and the general public. Think West Coast Choppers meets Howe 2 Live meets Grind Hard Plumbing... y'all are keeping the dream alive out there! 😀
Something probably went wrong earlier, at the design stage, but as custom, naked Batcycle, it is awesome :D I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the balance and turning problems will be solved
I really like what you do, just one thing to think about having your dog in the shop. It broke my heart when I finally figured out I made My Ruby blind and deaf by her hanging out in the shop.
I believe you will have more success when it's under its own power, because the correct speed is important to keep it from stalling out while cornering. and it's going to take some creative leaning techniques to control this unique motorcycle. and possibly a whole new learning curve to give it a full send.
You haven't seen all that snow? They bring wet into the workshop they have a heater it's gonna be humid in there. I'm from the UK I've had bare steel turn red overnight. Especially near welds.
Maybe you can make a moving seaddle, which is moving left or right. So maybe it can be help you to save your balance for turning. You can attach your foot to "pedals" for moving your body weight with "moving seaddles". (Sorry about my english.) Love you❤
This will actually be easier to handle once up to some speed that’s faster than a simple push. It’s just too big and heavy to be going that slow. I love this build.
It's all about countersteering thou. When you turn the bars to the right the bike will automatically start to lean to the left. This is becaus the gyroscopic effect och the spining tires always want to keep the bike upright. I think you need more speed for that to feel more natural, as weel as rounder tires as you pointed out yourself! Keep it up, it looks awesom!!
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Premium stickers and beanies back in stock! www.grindhardplumbingco.com
if this was two wheel drive it would be unstoppable - hill climbs, pike's peak, king of hammers...NORRA 1000?
Super awesome machine. Have you thought about using abs accumulator and a quad flight controller 6 axis gyro/accelerometer pid loop control for stabilisation/ better, safer control authority? The mass differential, especially with those huge flywheels, is going to be problematic, i think. What thoughts have you had regarding control reaction/authority? Again, kinawesome build. 😊
You should sell build plans for your projects.
Somebody that I used to know - Gotye
Diamond tread pattern airplane tires on the monster chopper, would give it smooth cornering,, because they are rounded like a huge super fat motorcycle tire. The bike already looks a bit like really tough landing gear. 😉
I still think you really really really need a rear fender so you don't die
This is my concern also.
Yes please : get that triangular tube you call a seat an extension to fender the back tire. I don't want to see a big bump unsettle you and throw you in that rotating back tire.
@@LouisThau yeah
100%
I am very sure that that giant arch that connects the front wheel is the reason why it always falls to the left in the tests (minute 51 onwards). It would be necessary to correct the balance and center of gravity to avoid that.
As a fellow garage engineer youtuber, i appreciate the judicious use of technical measurements like "smidgeon" and "plenty".
What is you channel
Keep engineering your stuff bud. Wanna see more on there :)
Just be German about it, no need for a torque wrench, just "gout and tight"
As an Englishman that uses those words a lot I appreciate them too
AF is a quality engineering quantity too. “That’s tight AF”
I just realized how far behind these videos are. I live in Idaho about 45 minutes away from these guys. Our cold snap(negative temps) happened back in mid December/early January. It's been 40' for the last month+ lol. That snow is pretty much gone now. Keep up the great content guys!
I have a tip regarding the steering ratio. It is common on large cargo bikes like urban arrow to have a higher rate of turning for the front wheel compared to the steering angle, because the wheel sits so much in front. This is a trick to make it feel as if the front wheel is in line with the handlebar axis for a more natural feel. The way it is now how Ethan explains it at 32:43 is actually opposite and make the front less responsive. Granted that now there is more leverage to move the wheel, however the geometry of leaning and steering into a turn will be off and actually harder to control. Have a look, hope it helps! Love the build❤
I hope he sees this
This comment needs more ratings
The tires having such a flat tread surface from one side of the tires to the other will effect its ability to turn as well
On my Riese and Müller it is the opposite! The Handle bar has more angle/turns more than the wheel.
I’m just worried of a death wobble condition in the front. Gonna rip and send all the steering comments up. Not sure how you could even add a stabilizer to the system.
I am a senior process specialist for robotics company, and my background is robotic welding, and have been in manufacturing and doing that for almost 30 years now. I have a small shop and I’m a hobbyist and always trying to build things myself, but have never tackled anything like the projects you guys do. You are one hell of a backyard fabricator and I always love and appreciate your videos. Cheers.
I am also a Robotic and welding professional for 300 years. I am also smarter than everyone in the comments section 600 years of experience.
If you’ve seen some of the other things Ethan’s mind has created, I’d say he’s pretty far from a backyard fabricator. Check out the video of the rotating treehouse, Ethan’s mind is just one of a kind when it comes to building cool shit.
I'm a senile process engineer... I forgot how long I've been doing it.
I know no one but you, and your colleagues (but really you), knows how much time, effort and sweat has gone into this build.
Well, we see a fraction of it, but you know what we see most?
The fact that you're a brilliant engineer.
Splendid job brother!
A great mechanic but, no not a good engineer 😂 all the engineers have been telling him repeatedly why his steering is fucked and he's refusing to listen, or even consider the fundamentals of motorcycle balance. Even 10 minutes of planning ahead could have prevented them wasting all that time building it and rebuilding it. This bad-boy is an art-piece first, and a bike second. Brilliant mechanic, brilliant artist, above all else
@@Alex-ck4in Yes, that 😂
Brilliant something 😂
That's an appropriate correction
Rounding the tires is the key ingredient. When I built my electric bike with truck tires I had to round them out and it made all the difference from unrideable to super easy to ride. That is also a lot of rake angle which will make it hard to steer, because of the tire's contact patch being increased and the geometry of more leaning the tire rather than steering it.
Maybe rounding the front tyre first, the cube form looks good on the back wheel.
It take more than 2 wheels and handlebars to make a good handling motorcycle and these guys are finding out the hard way.
@@projector4511and having one tire that keeps it flat when not moving will be nice hahaha
Just like bat man bike!
Electric?…🤢
Out of all the builds, I want this one to just be clear coated over the raw steel when it's done the most.
Could look very nice with some kind of zinc plating too. Give it a finished construction look
me too [I said that when he started the build...] and maybe after spraying a little something over the coating to look slightly rusted... that would give it a raw look...
Clear over Raw... 100% Yes!!! ❤🤘😎
I was thinking Steelit.
Swingarms black and the rest of the frame polished would look cool in a way. More of the bike floating in between two tires feeling.
Not watching your channel too regularly, though I always enjoy it.
This episode however is exceptionally well photographed, lighted and edited (including the music choices).
Respect!
Having a 2nd thought about it, I think it is actually among YT’s finest!
I love the way Ethan thinks about both aesthetics and functionality, he is both an artist and an engineer all rolled into one. It's a beautiful machine!
He actually isn't engineer, but he understands physics and especially mechanics very well.
functionality????? uhhhhh
Fortnine just made a video about motorcycle steering and the huge relevance of roundness of tyres in motorcycles. Having said that, it looks like mounting both single arms on the same side of the wheels will result in an asymmetric axial load in both axles, instinctively, I'd say that would result in what we are seeing here, a natural lean of the motorcycle to the left. An absolute beast of a build nonetheless.
I was looking for this comment, it was driving me nuts that nobody said this, those tires are not made for motorcycles... they would need custom ones, or round those ones off somehow or get like mud tires
The most important takeaway from that video is that he needed to turn the bars left to initiate the turn to the right, then turn the bars right to continue the turn.
ruclips.net/video/vSZiKrtJ7Y0/видео.html
threres just too much mass hanging off the left side. the biuke will always ewant to steer and fall to the left. even with round tires.
@@MattChurchley that´s normal counter steering witch is what every two wheel´d vehicle are using to move the balance of the bike.
"Adds a ton of strength in a twisty-this-way-direction, which is good" is my favorite engineering quote of the month!
I was reflecting on how far you guys have come in the last couple of years.
From the Barbie car to a monster bike.
The increments of knowledge, experience, and production is beyond the scale of AWESOME.
Even the quality of the videography is off the chart.
And it could be an interesting piece of yard art when complete.
Came for the monster chopper, stayed for Fred and Bjorn.
Man, i remember watching the Barbie Jeep build series back in the day. Absolutely insane how far you guys have come, and you deserve every bit of it. Keep up the good work !
Next level fabrication and engineering, SEMA worth build ! One of the coolest projects on RUclips.
As a guy who has been here since before the Camaro, you guys have done so great at finding your style and voice in the videos you put out. I am so happy to have been here to watch it unfold! 🤟
As a guy sitting on the toilet, I really do regret eating taco bell last night😮
These videos are probably my favorite part of the week during winter. Since I can't ride my own motorbike right now, I can at least watch you guys build a EPIC one!
Glad you’re digging it!
I'm so glad you mentioned rounding the profile of the tires. From the very beginning all I could think of was that you really needed to cut off those square shoulder lugs. There's a reason why going double dark doesn't mean 2 car tires. You have to have rounded profile, especially on the front tire! Great build. Can't wait to see the powered riding attempts.
exactly so you dont sie
Love how Ethan is making functioning art and will and the homies are just like “let’s put a V8 in a fridge with wheels!” Great content across the board.
Man the music and cinematography at around 14:00 really captures the build process for these types of projects. Almost feel like I'm there.
There's a few shots just before that that were literally breathtaking, the outside looking in and the shot of the rim with the weld spark behind. Gorgeous.
Dude, the amount of design work and engineering you appear to be doing in your head is astounding. It is like you just have a instinctual level of understanding of physics in a way that is absolutely incredible. Most people can't look at a set of gears and tell you which direction a gear will turn based on any other gear (even though that is just counting odd or even) and you are pulling things out of your head that the rest of us would not even know where to find the formulas for. I hope you understand just how gifted you actually are.
The editing on this vid is out of this world. B-rolls, timelapses and music are premium. Nice job guys😁
lol… still using the OG slag scraper. If I remember, it was a reject when you guys started using the arcdroid.
“It’s perfect for scraping the slag off tho” says Ethan.
One of the first things I thought of early in the build, was that it might have been better to build the swing arms on opposite sides to try to balance the weight distribution. The "test rolls" seem to potentially validate that. But, it's still a really cool project, and with some power behind it, it may behave a bit better, as you take advantage of the centrifugal force trying to keep it upright.
i just came across this build this week and haven't seen the start, but having the swing arms on opposite sides seemed like the go to for me
I enjoy the process of just throwing things together to see if they work. This method I think connects with most viewers, who are not engineers. Trial, and error, has been the default modus operandi, for thousands of years!
It's called 'empirical development' 😀
Enjoying the Monster Chopper series. Speaking of choppers, it'd be really nice to see you guys win Cleetus McFarland's helicopter. I'll look forward to videos of you learning to fly it.
If they did they would make a flying chopper 😮
I hope you all win the Freedom 500 event! A helicopter would be an amazing, but expensive addition to the Premium brand. 👍
🤞
Honestly I could see them selling it to make many other projects. I don't see any real use or videos to come from the helicopter itself. We would have to wait a while longer for them to get their pilots licenses and that would take away time from any other projects they have going on also. Honestly it feels like selling the helicopter would be the most practical/logical decision.
@@GrindHardPlumbingCoEthan and Will should do some type of build off in the future tho. I'm sure y'all could figure something amazing out and create some top tier content
It's specifically a small enough heli to fit in a normal garage without having any hanger costs and you don't need a runway. Tiny trainer helis are prob about as fuel efficient as they get and it's brand new.
Maybe I just wanna see these guys fly around the woods but still the only real cost is a flight trainer and fuel
I'm not talking about the cost of anything. I'm sure they could figure that all out if/when they needed too. The point I was making is that their wouldn't be much content to come from a helicopter to this channel. I'm sure they could figure something out but like you said it's a small engine Heli so it can't carry much weight.
You could simplify the top section of the steering by removing the bell crank and additional linkage.
I've done this very successfully before. The housing of the cables could be mounted to a pivot on the upper steering arm. When you turn left and right the upper section of the cable housing moves in and out with the arm. Works a treat!
Also with dual cable you can bias one toward tension and the other toward compression just a little with your adjusters this will reduce any tiny amount of slop left.
Those high ceilings in the shop are perfect for a light grid, you could get all the lighting you need without having to set up and take down light stands. Same set up as a studio would have 🖤
Man, the editing, the premium shots, the shop and tooling, the builds, just everything about grindhard and crew is so dam good. I would forever love to hang out and do a carshow in boise with you guys.
This bike does a great job at giving a visual representation of counter steering. Growing up on dirtbikes it always seemed natural but seeing how much you are having to try and lean in the opposite direction of where your handlebars are going put it into a better perspective. No matter what happens or how much weight you lean the bike is almost going to turn the opposite direction of the handle bar - turn right, go left. turn left, go right. motorcycles turn by leaning, turn the opposite way you want to get the tires to lean/tilt, straighten the handle bars and let and your body weight and gyroscopic motion do the rest. i would imagine that when the tires are rounded it would make things feel a bit more natural, because it would seem hard to instinctively turn the handle bars opposite of where you want to go when you can see the direction the tire is going combined with how flat it is
I was just going to say this. It clearly shows why counter steering is so important. With 10 to 100 times the rotational inertia it makes sense that counter steering would come into play at incredibly low speeds. But counter steering at 1 or 2 mph would feel so counter intuitive even for an experienced rider which is why i think he is struggling so hard to turn.
The #1thing I love about these group of dudes desides the top quality work they do ,mostly is that they are by far some of the whole hearted kindest people and I don't know them personally but when people are truly good people you can see their soul shine threw .
For some reason, a US citizen poking fun at the imperial measurements feels so refreshing :D
They are many of us.
What I personally love is when some staunch defender of US customary units calls them "freedom units". I just want to say to people like that, "Hey, buddy. How is the system of units developed by the British Monarchy working out for you?"
George Washington didn't come up with feet and miles, despite what US television thinks.
ruclips.net/video/JYqfVE-fykk/видео.html
@@Fix_It_Again_Tony lol, that's gold! :D
such a nice fun piece of editing! It's so long, but it does not feel like it! Breaking it up, some random shots, it's perfect!
if cause the awesome project does help, but Its been an hour very much worthwhile for everything. Keep it up!
The filming and editing is definitely the best in the gear head world of youtube, PREMIUM!!! The fabrication is also very much up there! PROPS!!
blue screen at 2:27 scared the crap out of me thought my computer crashed
Thanks for the warning
Cutting it out with a RUclips Editor right now. It should be fixed in a couple hours my bad. 🙈
@@GrindHardPlumbingCodon’t do it 😂😂😂
@@GrindHardPlumbingCo dont get rid of it lmao
yeah lol i checked the comments to see if it was just me or the video
Everytime i watch your videos i am always in an extremely calm kinda of state i love it
the amount of fabrication skill you have gained for years of making things like this really resonates on this build. yeah, I agree, you can no longer cheap-out at this point,dang! this build is on point. love the more build less talking GHP Co.
Only channel worth getting post notifications for
CEE engineering is well worth the bell!
Wrong
Don't you mean the only channel worse getting notifications that you have found cuz there are plenty of channels that are just as good or better like vgg pbg jyd lsc sleeperdude puddinsfabshop and many more
Ethan’s fab skills continue to amaze me, and with the awesome new camera angles and great music, yinz guyses channel is the best!
Some genius adaptations. Jank away mods worked! Carpenters don't need collage. The double cables remind me of Dave Canterberry's favorite saying, "two is one and one is none, when being prepared".
This thing is so crazy... 1 of my favourite builds.
nice seeing you here! waiting for the body on the new rc mega truck!
same as your 10X10
First u mention grind hard in ur most recent vid and now u appear here
Can you make a RC of this ? 1:8 or 1:10
@@ronaldrey8474 I'll need to dust off my welding skills haha
This is amazing!
I am impressed by your fabrication skills and ambition to create something unique.
I think a fatal flaw in this design are the crazy heavy wheels. Solve that and success will be easier.
You've gained a fan sir.
Music choice tempo/vibe is always on point. Chef’s kiss. Keep on the good work.
You know, as I watch this, I come to realize something about myself. It has everything to do with the fact that, at some point in time I thought I would grow up to fabricate with metal. but now I can honour where I’m at in my sewing career. And know, my metal fabrication cup is overflowing watching you guys expressing yourselves with metal!
Killing it boys!
Much love ❤️
Damn this is relatable!
I thought forsure i was gonna go welding or do carpentry after school but now im building a more digital foundation, but i can still live these dreams vicariously through channels like this!
saw this in my thumbnails on the homepage and thought it was one of those AI generated commercials. that thing is madness.
24:16 pull out those dangerously dangling hoodie dangleres!!
Also put the gard on,
i have 9.5 reasons left to keep mine on at all times in the future. Also i can onely flip of one and a half people at the time now haha
And in general avoid using a grinder where it might catch on your clothes, or it might pull itself into your stomach...
By far the most complicated build, the most rewarding build and greatest learning experience. Awesome job!
Y'all always have great content.. i just wanted to say ive been watching yall since the beginning.. that red vintage fridge is so sweet
Hey, uh, this is for you, Ethan, if you see this. Watching this build, I always wondered about how it would handle once built. I have read some about motorcycle chassis building and about rake and trail geometries and all that, and up until now, I was ok with the way you engineered things in that sense. Now, I am questioning something that I thought might be something to maybe bring up to you to think about since you're smarter than me 😅. Motorcycle design has always been about a center of gravity that is higher than the wheels, and the rake, trail, and handling dynamics all tie into the wheelbase as well. The balancing factor of bikes is natural as there is a gyroscopic element, but also of self correction of the front wheel thanks to the trail and rake geometries. I'm sure you know all of this, I'm just trying to set the conversation is all. This motorcycle doesn't really have that higher center of gravity, it really is about in line with the center of the wheels, so steering correction seems to not respond like normal at all, because you can't control the track of the tires to keep them under that center of gravity - you're just wallowing with no ability to change the base of the bike (track of the tires) in order to keep the bike balanced. I could be wrong here, but I don't think the "normal" rules for rake and trail design apply here. For one, your wheels base to the height of your center of gravity ratio is rather unusual. Normally, this would require a lot of rake, but I think this isn't ok now because of the center of gravity is not "normal". I think maybe this is more like a rip-stick skateboard type dynamic. Those are able to balance a very long wheelbase and a "low" center of gravity. The big difference in design of the steering components is in the use of the castor wheels, and with a reverse rake, I guess I'd call it 😅. This allows the rip-stick to have that self aligning effect for balance and control. However, even with a rip stick, the balance point is still right above the top of the wheels, and then the rider controls the track below their center of gravity to remain balanced. I don't think you have either situation (normal motorcyle/rip-stick) here exactly, but I feel like there's a geometry puzzle here like that for the handling dynamic in order to balance and steer. Another wheeled vehicle comes to mind as well, and that's those monowheels where the pilot and engine are inside a large diameter wheel. Those are able to balance, but the creator had to make the wheel move out of the center under the center of gravity of the pilot and engine. The center of gravity on a monowheel is very low compared to the wheel size, so that has me optimistic this is possible. Trail on a "normal" motorcycle is always to create that natural castor effect for self alignment. The rip-stick is different in so many ways, but still self aligns. I have no idea if a monowheel self aligns, but I do know it has weird handling - especially at higher speeds (and they often use aero to stay straight). I know that you're smarter than me and all, but I truly love all things wheeled. I love to understand the balancing dynamics of 2 and 1 wheeled things, and then being able to ride and feel those physics at work. I'm mostly just curious about it all, and my inner voice screams at me wanting to try to ride this thing. I'm hardly deserving to be giving you any advice 😂, so, I dunno, maybe I'm just sharing my thoughts and I'm just crazy 😂.
Don’t sell yourself short, bud - these guys aren’t super smarter than you and are making it up as they go just like anyone else. They’ve got a nice shop and an audience and dude is obviously pretty clever and skilled, but there’s every chance the thing you’re talking about will be an Achilles heel. Or maybe not - we’ll see! But either way, comments like yours are useful to better understand the forces at play. I mean, he thought that hydraulic steering might work and you know some dude in Canada was shaking his head about it. But that’s how progress is made - it’s said that mistakes are better teachers than a hundred successes. Or something like that. :)
Very insightful information, you raise a lot of legitimate concerns, I feel that maybe this is a, (can we do it), aspect as much as a (will it work perspective). I have to give them props for the success they have accomplished to this point; it truly is a different Moster. I'll bet some auto industry people said the electric car would never work so don't bother trying, and then Elon Musk comes out of nowhere and wham, the Tesla. Now they are by far the leading manufacturer of the most advanced EV's around the world. Not that these guys are making the next Tesla but trying something completely out of the norm.
@@JB-ro3sz - Yeah, exactly (minus the bit about Elon because that dude is more hype-man and enabler of other’s good ideas than an inventor, more Howard Hughes than Burt Rutan, though his successes have been earned and can’t be ignored). Like you say, it seems like these guys operate in “can we do it” mode, starting with an image/result and working backwards from there. This crazy machine clearly began as a “wouldn’t it be amazing if these wheels were on a motorcycle? it’d look like the one in the Dark Knight! It’d be awesome!” Versus starting at “I’d like to create a two-wheeled machine that could go off-road and achieve these benchmarks.”
To my thinking, progressing by leaps instead of increments is often done by the folks who just have a go at making something “that will never work” or start with something already imagined but a “fantasy,” like making real Spider-Man web-slingers. Feedback by people like the OP is how those ideas get fleshed out or how those ideas can be pushed past when they hit the proverbial “brick wall.” In some ways, things like this are one of the ways that the internet actually achieves something close the hype and promise made about it in the 90’s and 2000’s. A project like this is genuinely inspiring to watch and the comments and thoughts from novices to experts is so cool to see.
You're saying it right. все правильно говоришь.
I think you're correct! Having a hub in the front changes things again. My gut feel was more castor would definitely help and i don't think it's very hard to change. Just need to rotate the hub mountings on the front swing arm. I think this is what you mean by "rake"? I think rake is more of a motorcycle term, but castor makes sense too since he's essentially using a car hub.
34:18 Bjørn is so proud of your work
Aloha Grind Hard crew,
What a beautiful Monster Chopper!
I think that you could use a counterweight for slow speed turns. Maybe have your seat metered, left and right, (probably not free floating) to use your body to offset the chopper's center of mass.
21:47 Gotye “Somebody that I used to know feat- Kimbra”
Exactly what i thought 😄
dude smacked that high note
Once you get enough speed for a bit a gyro to come into play it should ride no worries. And like you say rounding those tires off will make a huge difference, still going to be a lot of side to side balance point movement at low speeds but at least with a rounded off tire it will be a bit more linear instead of a massive jump from the middle to the edge within a couple of degree's of lean angle like it is now.
Going to be really interesting to see how it feels at speeds high enough to move the lean rotation point up to the center of gravity since that's also basically the center of the wheels because they are so big in diameter, there really wouldn't be meany other bikes out there like that, maybe some land speed stuff and a few others here and there but cant think of much else. Might actually really help tone down the massive gyroscopic's of those big flywheels, then again it may make them try and uncut, be interesting to see.
Once the tires are rounded the bike is going to want to always tip to the left because of how much weight is on that side. The overall weight of this thing is too much for someone to ride safely because the rider will constantly have to try and counter the mass of both arms being on the same side. If the arms holding the tires on were mounted on opposing sides it may be able to be balanced by the rider. I imagine when the suspension flexes at all the whole thing will want to dive to the left.
My intuition is that there’s a problem with this bike’s geometry. A falling bike torques the front wheel into the direction of the fall. If the speed is sufficient, that naturally puts the bike’s tires back underneath the bike’s center of gravity before the fall can continue. This creates a stable equilibrium at high speed. It’s why a shoved bicycle will remain upright for a good distance even without a rider. This fork setup isn’t giving them the geometry that naturally creates that stable equilibrium. So they’ll have to rely ENTIRELY on gyroscopic forces, which is not typical for a bike, and might not be sufficient.
Agreed, the phenomenon you're talking about is due to rake angle, the contact patch of the tire being behind the axis of rotation (left to right) for the front tire. Tip a shopping cart on two wheels, one front and one rear, that will display the effect of an offset axis.@@truejim
@@chaisv So I think to fix this, GHP will have to completely change the geometry of the front end? Like, they’ll need positive rake into the front wheel. The videos make it look like this geometry even has a slightly negative rake? which if true would mean this geometry may be actively unstable.
Most likely would just have to change the position of the top and bottom ball joints of which the front wheel stears about. The steering being on the unsprung half of the linkage, and the point of rotation of the front arm would mean the suspension would affect the trail but as it compresses it would help not hurt steering. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle
Shaving the tires might be enough idk. It's easy to calculate, but it's not gonna be super dangerous or unstable and unpredictable. Anyways that's part of the fun of a build.
@@truejim
When I see this, I'm reminded of "Days Gone". The custom ride you can make that you can take all over the place. This ride you made would have been awesome to use.
I think part of what Ethan is missing on turning with the bike is that on a typical motorcycle you turn AWAY from the direction you want to go to initiate the lean which then allows you to turn the direction you want to go.
Man I hope you get a vacation after this one! The dedication in your mindset comes through so much here. Good shit man
I’m honestly still really surprised Ethan though that first steering system would work
🔥🔥
I've been watching this getting built on instagram and I am really excited to see more content on there and here. Keep up the good work!!!
Love this build so much. This needs to be in the upcoming Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga movie!!
Looks so cool! A lot of mass in those tires though. Mind the gyro at highway speed. You'll probably find it fighting you to right itself in the corners a lot more than a conventional bike 👍
The content is always amazing, and I'm really enjoying this build, but the cinematography, if that's the correct word, is just phenomenal. Great work 👍
Half-sized ape hangers or big z bars!!! And a rear fender before it pulls you off and chews you up .... I had a rare black golden retriever.. stayed right under my feet ... the most loving dawg!!!!
I am dying to see this thing running under its own power... this is one of my dream jobs: building custom bikes and vehicles for Hollywood and the general public. Think West Coast Choppers meets Howe 2 Live meets Grind Hard Plumbing... y'all are keeping the dream alive out there! 😀
The engineering. The machines. The dogs. The mood. 🤩🥰
Gerald’s noble contribution shall never be forgotten. He deserves a T shirt in his honor.
More rake on steering pivot, right to left opposing ballast weight, and round edged tires and ya got it. Cool as hell man!
It was Nice to See this Cool thing At KOH and it was nice to take picture with the Master himself!!
Good thing the steering cables and forward chain sprocket are there to take the brunt of any fall. Protects the tubing.
it’s very nice to watch this furry couple..oh and the dogs are very cute too) thanks for the video!
Something probably went wrong earlier, at the design stage, but as custom, naked Batcycle, it is awesome :D I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the balance and turning problems will be solved
I really miss having access to a shop. The dream builds are limitless with the right tools
You have some mad engineering skills and I wish I could take welding lessons from you
More industrial magic from the Grind Hard Plumbing Laboratory...
I have no idea why you are doing this. But I love the fact that you are.
Yes yes yes, Right on.! Awesome motorcycle, it is so unusual!!! I am amazed by the looks of it. Great ep.
Moment of silence for our dear sweet Gerald. RIP sweet Gerald.
Two of the most beautiful models on that bike.
I really like what you do, just one thing to think about having your dog in the shop. It broke my heart when I finally figured out I made My Ruby blind and deaf by her hanging out in the shop.
Bro I found you off of iFunny, your editing and style of video makes this a lot more interesting than I originally thought! Great work brother
Obviously reverse would be very helpful. I'm gonna say it's pretty much a necessity with that turning radius. Really enjoy what you do! 👍
Definitely feel that this should be clear-coated as is when completed. Looks so good bare metal.
This things straight out of *Full* *Throttle* . Love it.
I don't watch any other videos that are as long as yours, but these keep my attention! awesome project can't wait to see it running 👍🍺🇬🇧
I believe you will have more success when it's under its own power, because the correct speed is important to keep it from stalling out while cornering. and it's going to take some creative leaning techniques to control this unique motorcycle. and possibly a whole new learning curve to give it a full send.
I can believe in that moist winter environment that none of that tube hasn't all coloured up with rust, especially from hand prints as well.
You haven't seen all that snow? They bring wet into the workshop they have a heater it's gonna be humid in there. I'm from the UK I've had bare steel turn red overnight. Especially near welds.
Can't wait until you're done with building it and I can see you riding successfully 🎉
That thing is a WORK OF ART its really beautiful !!!
This is insane...I'm praying that u guys get that monster working ..........I really want to see it go...
🏁
You got some imagination being able to build such mind blowing awsome creations
I like that the dudes embraced the universal metric system.
Maybe you can make a moving seaddle, which is moving left or right. So maybe it can be help you to save your balance for turning. You can attach your foot to "pedals" for moving your body weight with "moving seaddles".
(Sorry about my english.) Love you❤
this is art. love the organic but mechanical look.
This will actually be easier to handle once up to some speed that’s faster than a simple push. It’s just too big and heavy to be going that slow. I love this build.
It's all about countersteering thou. When you turn the bars to the right the bike will automatically start to lean to the left. This is becaus the gyroscopic effect och the spining tires always want to keep the bike upright. I think you need more speed for that to feel more natural, as weel as rounder tires as you pointed out yourself! Keep it up, it looks awesom!!
Dude, if you did all the welds in that bike you should definitely build a rock crawling beast. Like seeing whatever you do. Bmbut def go big.
You couldn't have picked a better intake setup for this build!! Heck ya! @RottweilerPerformance
Looks wicked from every angle!!! Can’t wait to see it finished